Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
stl07 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Urban Chestnut putting in a bar in T2. Basically a grab and go.
Lots of good local beer options now with Urban Chestnut, Schlafly, Three Kings, and the Bud bar (if we still count Bud).
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... a35cc.html
Is this the "new restaurant" or will that be something else
jplatts wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Finally got around to fully updating my Load Factor Spreadsheet for October (July for Intl). Probably good since the next month comes out tomorrow.
I have noticed that DL has much weaker load factors on STL-CVG nonstop service than WN does on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop service. WN also currently operates STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop flights on Boeing 737 planes whereas DL currently operates STL-CVG nonstop service on CRJ 200 and CRJ 700 regional jets.
DL also still currently charges significantly higher fares on last-minute nonstops to CVG from STL than WN does on last-minute nonstop flights to CMH, DSM, MCI, MKE, and OMA from STL.
Here is what DL currently charges on STL-CVG compared to what WN charges on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA:
STL-CVG on DL - $796 last-minute, $416 21-day advance purchase
STL-CMH on WN - $534 last-minute, $250 21-day advance purchase
STL-DSM on WN - $444 last-minute, $172 21-day advance purchase
STL-MCI on WN - $426 last-minute, $210 21-day advance purchase
STL-MKE on WN - $504 last-minute, $246 21-day advance purchase
STL-OMA on WN - $460 last-minute, $264 21-day advance purchase
I think that DL charging significantly higher fares on STL-CVG compared to what WN currently charges on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop flights is weakening demand for DL STL-CVG nonstop service and load factors on DL's STL-CVG nonstop flights.
WN would certainly charge lower fares on STL-CVG than DL currently does on STL-CVG if WN adds STL-CVG nonstop service. WN would also likely stimulate additional demand for STL-CVG nonstop service if it adds STL-CVG nonstop service since WN carries significantly more passengers on its STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstops than DL currently does on STL-CVG nonstops.
Another big difference is that most of the domestic destinations east of CVG that are still served nonstop out of CVG on DL are already served nonstop out of STL on WN, whereas DSM and OMA have nonstop service to fewer destinations east of the Mississippi.
Jshank83 wrote:I’m seeing a lot of $217 and $236 RT for CVG 21+ days out.
Trololzilla wrote:We should all crowdfund a replacement for India Palace
Could even be more planespotting oriented than food oriented...
T18 wrote:maps4ltd wrote:stl07 wrote:And India palace too. What's left for STL spotters?
Um...cell phone lot?
Not that I recommend this but, the field off Missouri bottom, Banshee and Lindbergh or the area around Navaid have some good views but I bet Airport Police would come and run you off from either one.
jplatts wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Finally got around to fully updating my Load Factor Spreadsheet for October (July for Intl). Probably good since the next month comes out tomorrow.
I have noticed that DL has much weaker load factors on STL-CVG nonstop service than WN does on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop service. WN also currently operates STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop flights on Boeing 737 planes whereas DL currently operates STL-CVG nonstop service on CRJ 200 and CRJ 700 regional jets.
DL also still currently charges significantly higher fares on last-minute nonstops to CVG from STL than WN does on last-minute nonstop flights to CMH, DSM, MCI, MKE, and OMA from STL.
Here is what DL currently charges on STL-CVG compared to what WN charges on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA:
STL-CVG on DL - $796 last-minute, $416 21-day advance purchase
STL-CMH on WN - $534 last-minute, $250 21-day advance purchase
STL-DSM on WN - $444 last-minute, $172 21-day advance purchase
STL-MCI on WN - $426 last-minute, $210 21-day advance purchase
STL-MKE on WN - $504 last-minute, $246 21-day advance purchase
STL-OMA on WN - $460 last-minute, $264 21-day advance purchase
I think that DL charging significantly higher fares on STL-CVG compared to what WN currently charges on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop flights is weakening demand for DL STL-CVG nonstop service and load factors on DL's STL-CVG nonstop flights.
WN would certainly charge lower fares on STL-CVG than DL currently does on STL-CVG if WN adds STL-CVG nonstop service. WN would also likely stimulate additional demand for STL-CVG nonstop service if it adds STL-CVG nonstop service since WN carries significantly more passengers on its STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstops than DL currently does on STL-CVG nonstops.
Another big difference is that most of the domestic destinations east of CVG that are still served nonstop out of CVG on DL are already served nonstop out of STL on WN, whereas DSM and OMA have nonstop service to fewer destinations east of the Mississippi.
dcaproducer wrote:As a DL flier, I used to like the DCA-CVG-STL routing, but I rarely do it anymore. DTW is almost always more convenient and less expensive.
I also avoid the CRJ200 like the plague.
maps4ltd wrote:dcaproducer wrote:As a DL flier, I used to like the DCA-CVG-STL routing, but I rarely do it anymore. DTW is almost always more convenient and less expensive.
I also avoid the CRJ200 like the plague.
There are some CRJ-700s on the route. They're not too bad, and DL takes those STL-DTW (and STL-MCO in season).
symphonicpoet wrote:Trololzilla wrote:We should all crowdfund a replacement for India Palace
Could even be more planespotting oriented than food oriented...
It could cater to the digital cabbie crowd, too. Now that they're not chained to the staging area in the same way. Would be interesting to find out what they want in rent on the space. The tinted windows are a bit of a bummer, but . . . it's really not a terrible place to spot. (Even the garage can work out okay, depending.)
Jshank83 wrote:November domestic numbers on newer routes.
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 71% (1st month)
Sun Country to Fort Myers 66%
Sun Country to Tampa 66%(1st month)
Southwest to Hartford 88%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%
rainaviation2 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:November domestic numbers on newer routes.
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 71% (1st month)
Sun Country to Fort Myers 66%
Sun Country to Tampa 66%(1st month)
Southwest to Hartford 88%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%
Those Sun Country numbers are terrible for a route that operates twice per week in November! I wonder if the December numbers will be any better.
rainaviation2 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:November domestic numbers on newer routes.
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 71% (1st month)
Sun Country to Fort Myers 66%
Sun Country to Tampa 66%(1st month)
Southwest to Hartford 88%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%
Those Sun Country numbers are terrible for a route that operates twice per week in November! I wonder if the December numbers will be any better.
Jshank83 wrote:November domestic numbers on newer routes.
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 71% (1st month)
Sun Country to Fort Myers 66%
Sun Country to Tampa 66%(1st month)
Southwest to Hartford 88%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%
pmanni1 wrote:rainaviation2 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:November domestic numbers on newer routes.
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 71% (1st month)
Sun Country to Fort Myers 66%
Sun Country to Tampa 66%(1st month)
Southwest to Hartford 88%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%
Those Sun Country numbers are terrible for a route that operates twice per week in November! I wonder if the December numbers will be any better.
I'm guessing those numbers have improved since they doubled the number of flights to RSW for February and March.
Jshank83 wrote:Not bookable yet but of note. We will see if it is real or not.
AC STL-YYZ JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 3>4[3] OCT 3>4[3]
STLflyer wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Not bookable yet but of note. We will see if it is real or not.
AC STL-YYZ JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 3>4[3] OCT 3>4[3]
Must be related to AC moving all of their regional flying from Air Georgian to Jazz.
Still, surprised at the increase in capacity. I’ve been on several STL-YYZ flights in the past and none of them were even close to full.
pmanni1 wrote:STLflyer wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Not bookable yet but of note. We will see if it is real or not.
AC STL-YYZ JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 3>4[3] OCT 3>4[3]
Must be related to AC moving all of their regional flying from Air Georgian to Jazz.
Still, surprised at the increase in capacity. I’ve been on several STL-YYZ flights in the past and none of them were even close to full.
This is one of those routes where load factors seem to hardly matter because the ticket prices are so exorbitant. From today through next Saturday all one way tickets are a minimum of $1100. They go down to $894 10 days out on Feb 27th.
maps4ltd wrote:pmanni1 wrote:STLflyer wrote:
Must be related to AC moving all of their regional flying from Air Georgian to Jazz.
Still, surprised at the increase in capacity. I’ve been on several STL-YYZ flights in the past and none of them were even close to full.
This is one of those routes where load factors seem to hardly matter because the ticket prices are so exorbitant. From today through next Saturday all one way tickets are a minimum of $1100. They go down to $894 10 days out on Feb 27th.
Agreed. I would love to go to Toronto for a summer weekend, but never for 500 RT.
pmanni1 wrote:STLflyer wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Not bookable yet but of note. We will see if it is real or not.
AC STL-YYZ JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 3>4[3] OCT 3>4[3]
Must be related to AC moving all of their regional flying from Air Georgian to Jazz.
Still, surprised at the increase in capacity. I’ve been on several STL-YYZ flights in the past and none of them were even close to full.
This is one of those routes where load factors seem to hardly matter because the ticket prices are so exorbitant. From today through next Saturday all one way tickets are a minimum of $1100. They go down to $894 10 days out on Feb 27th.
Jshank83 wrote:AS upgauges SAN to a 737 on August 27th.
maps4ltd wrote:Jshank83 wrote:AS upgauges SAN to a 737 on August 27th.
So STL will be all 737.
dcaproducer wrote:What’s interesting is AC upgraded aircraft in other markets, but left STL the same, but added a frequency. Interesting.
As for AS, it would be interesting if they were to pick up a summer flight to ANC, even if not daily. I think they could also gain traction with another west coast destination.
Jshank83 wrote:dcaproducer wrote:What’s interesting is AC upgraded aircraft in other markets, but left STL the same, but added a frequency. Interesting.
As for AS, it would be interesting if they were to pick up a summer flight to ANC, even if not daily. I think they could also gain traction with another west coast destination.
I talked to someone who works for them in STL. They said they have been told SFO is coming for a year now, so maybe that one will come here soon.
Jshank83 wrote:Updated my Load Factor Spreadsheet for November.
Everything looked pretty good.
AS/UA/G4 all over 80%
F9 is all over 80% except PBI but it was its first month.
All west coast flights are strong (80s and 90s). SMF hasn't been under 90% yet in any month.
Sun Country is off to a rough start 66% but I would hope those would increase.
CVG is pretty much where it was last year.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
pmanni1 wrote:Beginning June 8th DL starts 4x daily A321's to ATL. You can catch these at 6:00am,7:00am,5:50pm.7:00pm. I believe this is the most they've ever had on that route.
dcaproducer wrote:I think DL could really do well with another route or two out of STL. BOS and maybe LAX come to mind. JFK could be good for international feed/connections. This would give SkyTeam a better presence at STL.
It’s nice to see the A321 in STL.
jplatts wrote:dcaproducer wrote:I think DL could really do well with another route or two out of STL. BOS and maybe LAX come to mind. JFK could be good for international feed/connections. This would give SkyTeam a better presence at STL.
It’s nice to see the A321 in STL.
I agree that DL could add nonstop service to BOS, LAX, and JFK from STL. In addition, DL could also add STL-SEA nonstop service since (a) DL already serves SEA nonstop from ORD, CVG, DTW, IND, MCI, MKE, and MSP in the Midwest, (b) STL is one of the top destinations traveled to from SEA that isn't currently served nonstop from SEA on DL, and (c) DL had added new nonstop routes out of SEA in the last 2 years
Jshank83 wrote:AS upgauges SAN to a 737 on August 27th.
maps4ltd wrote:Will the DL A321 thing mean the end of scheduled 757 service in STL?
Right now we get a mixture of 752 and M88s. Last summer, we got 739s and M88s. This summer, we're getting A321s and M88s. The Mad dogs seem to be a constant variable.
TWA302 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Updated my Load Factor Spreadsheet for November.
Everything looked pretty good.
AS/UA/G4 all over 80%
F9 is all over 80% except PBI but it was its first month.
All west coast flights are strong (80s and 90s). SMF hasn't been under 90% yet in any month.
Sun Country is off to a rough start 66% but I would hope those would increase.
CVG is pretty much where it was last year.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
I am still shaking my head. When SY announced service here there has been zero marketing (from what I have seen) to say, HEY we are here. 66% isn't good.
kavok wrote:jplatts wrote:dcaproducer wrote:I think DL could really do well with another route or two out of STL. BOS and maybe LAX come to mind. JFK could be good for international feed/connections. This would give SkyTeam a better presence at STL.
It’s nice to see the A321 in STL.
I agree that DL could add nonstop service to BOS, LAX, and JFK from STL. In addition, DL could also add STL-SEA nonstop service since (a) DL already serves SEA nonstop from ORD, CVG, DTW, IND, MCI, MKE, and MSP in the Midwest, (b) STL is one of the top destinations traveled to from SEA that isn't currently served nonstop from SEA on DL, and (c) DL had added new nonstop routes out of SEA in the last 2 years
The big problem is the lack of gate space DL has, particularly at SEA and BOS. Once the remodels are done at LAX/BOS, I think those STL flights have a much better chance.
dcaproducer wrote:kavok wrote:jplatts wrote:
I agree that DL could add nonstop service to BOS, LAX, and JFK from STL. In addition, DL could also add STL-SEA nonstop service since (a) DL already serves SEA nonstop from ORD, CVG, DTW, IND, MCI, MKE, and MSP in the Midwest, (b) STL is one of the top destinations traveled to from SEA that isn't currently served nonstop from SEA on DL, and (c) DL had added new nonstop routes out of SEA in the last 2 years
The big problem is the lack of gate space DL has, particularly at SEA and BOS. Once the remodels are done at LAX/BOS, I think those STL flights have a much better chance.
Oddly enough I think DL is also somewhat gate constrained at STL. I think they could take over A15 and the airport could move charter to C if needed, but in the mornings when I fly out of STL the DL gates are packed.
Jshank83 wrote:dcaproducer wrote:kavok wrote:
The big problem is the lack of gate space DL has, particularly at SEA and BOS. Once the remodels are done at LAX/BOS, I think those STL flights have a much better chance.
Oddly enough I think DL is also somewhat gate constrained at STL. I think they could take over A15 and the airport could move charter to C if needed, but in the mornings when I fly out of STL the DL gates are packed.
They do use A9 for late night arrivals from SLC sometimes. I can't imagine they would use it for depatures though. Maybe on a CRJ200 to CVG or 700 but not a ton of room
dcaproducer wrote:Jshank83 wrote:dcaproducer wrote:
Yeah, especially since that restaurant now has seating that covers the front of A9. Realistically A15 would make the most sense and they can fit a mainline aircraft over there. Move charters over to C or "D" if D reopens for WN. I wish DL had room for a SkyClub, but I have no idea where they would put it unless they built it on the roof of A.
N383SW wrote:[photoid]dcaproducer wrote:Jshank83 wrote:
What happened to the area where the UA Red Carpet club used to be? I haven’t been on the A Concourse for about 10 years so I have no idea what’s going on over there lol.
Jshank83 wrote:N383SW wrote:[photoid]dcaproducer wrote:
What happened to the area where the UA Red Carpet club used to be? I haven’t been on the A Concourse for about 10 years so I have no idea what’s going on over there lol.
I didn't know they ever had a club here. Where was it?
dcaproducer wrote:Jshank83 wrote:dcaproducer wrote:
Oddly enough I think DL is also somewhat gate constrained at STL. I think they could take over A15 and the airport could move charter to C if needed, but in the mornings when I fly out of STL the DL gates are packed.
They do use A9 for late night arrivals from SLC sometimes. I can't imagine they would use it for depatures though. Maybe on a CRJ200 to CVG or 700 but not a ton of room
Yeah, especially since that restaurant now has seating that covers the front of A9. Realistically A15 would make the most sense and they can fit a mainline aircraft over there. Move charters over to C or "D" if D reopens for WN. I wish DL had room for a SkyClub, but I have no idea where they would put it unless they built it on the roof of A.
