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Jshank83
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:30 pm

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Urban Chestnut putting in a bar in T2. Basically a grab and go.

Lots of good local beer options now with Urban Chestnut, Schlafly, Three Kings, and the Bud bar (if we still count Bud).

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... a35cc.html

Is this the "new restaurant" or will that be something else


Something else. It’s just a bar set up outside the bagel factory (near E8-ish).
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:40 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Finally got around to fully updating my Load Factor Spreadsheet for October (July for Intl). Probably good since the next month comes out tomorrow.


I have noticed that DL has much weaker load factors on STL-CVG nonstop service than WN does on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop service. WN also currently operates STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop flights on Boeing 737 planes whereas DL currently operates STL-CVG nonstop service on CRJ 200 and CRJ 700 regional jets.

DL also still currently charges significantly higher fares on last-minute nonstops to CVG from STL than WN does on last-minute nonstop flights to CMH, DSM, MCI, MKE, and OMA from STL.

Here is what DL currently charges on STL-CVG compared to what WN charges on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA:
STL-CVG on DL - $796 last-minute, $416 21-day advance purchase
STL-CMH on WN - $534 last-minute, $250 21-day advance purchase
STL-DSM on WN - $444 last-minute, $172 21-day advance purchase
STL-MCI on WN - $426 last-minute, $210 21-day advance purchase
STL-MKE on WN - $504 last-minute, $246 21-day advance purchase
STL-OMA on WN - $460 last-minute, $264 21-day advance purchase

I think that DL charging significantly higher fares on STL-CVG compared to what WN currently charges on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop flights is weakening demand for DL STL-CVG nonstop service and load factors on DL's STL-CVG nonstop flights.

WN would certainly charge lower fares on STL-CVG than DL currently does on STL-CVG if WN adds STL-CVG nonstop service. WN would also likely stimulate additional demand for STL-CVG nonstop service if it adds STL-CVG nonstop service since WN carries significantly more passengers on its STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstops than DL currently does on STL-CVG nonstops.

Another big difference is that most of the domestic destinations east of CVG that are still served nonstop out of CVG on DL are already served nonstop out of STL on WN, whereas DSM and OMA have nonstop service to fewer destinations east of the Mississippi.



I’m seeing a lot of $217 and $236 RT for CVG 21+ days out.
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:03 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I’m seeing a lot of $217 and $236 RT for CVG 21+ days out.


The lowest non-Basic Economy fares that I could find on DL STL-CVG flights in March 2019 is $256, but the $256 fares are only available on certain dates. However, I did find some lower Basic Economy fares on DL STL-CVG flights on certain dates in March 2019.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:35 pm

I've seen some very cheap CVG fares recently, comparable with the likes of ICT and DSM on WN.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
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symphonicpoet
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:57 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:02 pm

Trololzilla wrote:
We should all crowdfund a replacement for India Palace :lol:

Could even be more planespotting oriented than food oriented...


It could cater to the digital cabbie crowd, too. Now that they're not chained to the staging area in the same way. Would be interesting to find out what they want in rent on the space. The tinted windows are a bit of a bummer, but . . . it's really not a terrible place to spot. (Even the garage can work out okay, depending.)

T18 wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
stl07 wrote:
And India palace too. What's left for STL spotters?


Um...cell phone lot? :cry:


Not that I recommend this but, the field off Missouri bottom, Banshee and Lindbergh or the area around Navaid have some good views but I bet Airport Police would come and run you off from either one.


The area around Berry Hill is very good and I've never yet had any interactions with airport police over there. (I think the different management may be making a difference.) Even had a pilot use my rather obvious car as a waymarker to direct his kid on where to go to watch him take off. (That was odd.) The parking garage at India Palace is still accessible. I've had some decent luck watching operations on 29 from the field at the end of Caramel Ct. I expect you can be seen on radar there, but . . . maybe only if you're too hard headed. Again, no trouble with police so far. Public street. No signs saying not to. There's also a field over at Berkley and Scudder that's not marked airport property. No trouble there yet either. Bit of a hike up the hill and a long walk from parking. But the view is great. The end of Evans Ave. over by the Hilton Garden Inn is also a nice spot, though there's no view of the airport. But you're right under the glide slope, so you see the planes well. Same can be said of O Connor Park.
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:39 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Finally got around to fully updating my Load Factor Spreadsheet for October (July for Intl). Probably good since the next month comes out tomorrow.


I have noticed that DL has much weaker load factors on STL-CVG nonstop service than WN does on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop service. WN also currently operates STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop flights on Boeing 737 planes whereas DL currently operates STL-CVG nonstop service on CRJ 200 and CRJ 700 regional jets.

DL also still currently charges significantly higher fares on last-minute nonstops to CVG from STL than WN does on last-minute nonstop flights to CMH, DSM, MCI, MKE, and OMA from STL.

Here is what DL currently charges on STL-CVG compared to what WN charges on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA:
STL-CVG on DL - $796 last-minute, $416 21-day advance purchase
STL-CMH on WN - $534 last-minute, $250 21-day advance purchase
STL-DSM on WN - $444 last-minute, $172 21-day advance purchase
STL-MCI on WN - $426 last-minute, $210 21-day advance purchase
STL-MKE on WN - $504 last-minute, $246 21-day advance purchase
STL-OMA on WN - $460 last-minute, $264 21-day advance purchase

I think that DL charging significantly higher fares on STL-CVG compared to what WN currently charges on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop flights is weakening demand for DL STL-CVG nonstop service and load factors on DL's STL-CVG nonstop flights.

WN would certainly charge lower fares on STL-CVG than DL currently does on STL-CVG if WN adds STL-CVG nonstop service. WN would also likely stimulate additional demand for STL-CVG nonstop service if it adds STL-CVG nonstop service since WN carries significantly more passengers on its STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstops than DL currently does on STL-CVG nonstops.

Another big difference is that most of the domestic destinations east of CVG that are still served nonstop out of CVG on DL are already served nonstop out of STL on WN, whereas DSM and OMA have nonstop service to fewer destinations east of the Mississippi.

DL can charge basically whatever it wants on the route. I would imagine they have figured out that filling 50-60% of the seats with high paying customers is better than full flights of low fare customers. WN isn't going to serve the market anytime soon since they are still pretty small in CVG.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:57 pm

As a DL flier, I used to like the DCA-CVG-STL routing, but I rarely do it anymore. DTW is almost always more convenient and less expensive.
I also avoid the CRJ200 like the plague.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:29 am

dcaproducer wrote:
As a DL flier, I used to like the DCA-CVG-STL routing, but I rarely do it anymore. DTW is almost always more convenient and less expensive.
I also avoid the CRJ200 like the plague.


There are some CRJ-700s on the route. They're not too bad, and DL takes those STL-DTW (and STL-MCO in season).
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:35 am

maps4ltd wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
As a DL flier, I used to like the DCA-CVG-STL routing, but I rarely do it anymore. DTW is almost always more convenient and less expensive.
I also avoid the CRJ200 like the plague.


There are some CRJ-700s on the route. They're not too bad, and DL takes those STL-DTW (and STL-MCO in season).


I don’t mind the 700’s or 900’s. I’m normally up front, so I love the A seats.
I like the SkyClub in CVG because it’s almost always empty.
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:53 am

Going thru International numbers for August.

WOW was
98% full out
68% inbound
85% combined
but they have an 1800 seat difference from inbound to outbound which seems really weird. So I am not sure what is up with that.

Southwest to Cancun 78% out 97% in
Frontier to Cancun 65% out 70% in
Air Canada 78% out 84% in

No charter numbers. I am going to double check all these again at some point. WOW numbers seem weird and no charter numbers is also.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:21 am

F9's numbers aren't as good as WN's, but the resorts subsidize the flight through apple
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:28 am

Interesting to see the international numbers. Thanks for posting and keeping track of the overall numbers/stats at STL.
Looks like WOW was making some headway. Too bad they’re a mess and left the market. Those numbers should encourage another carrier.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:45 am

November domestic numbers on newer routes.
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 71% (1st month)
Sun Country to Fort Myers 66%
Sun Country to Tampa 66%(1st month)
Southwest to Hartford 88%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%
 
Trololzilla
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:22 am

symphonicpoet wrote:
Trololzilla wrote:
We should all crowdfund a replacement for India Palace :lol:

Could even be more planespotting oriented than food oriented...


It could cater to the digital cabbie crowd, too. Now that they're not chained to the staging area in the same way. Would be interesting to find out what they want in rent on the space. The tinted windows are a bit of a bummer, but . . . it's really not a terrible place to spot. (Even the garage can work out okay, depending.)

Some kind of light cafe is what I was thinking. Don't know about rent, but could be interesting to find out.

Wonder if the building owners would allow someone to change the windows from those bay types to just an entire wall of flat ones on the airport facing side? Or maybe even build out an outdoor observation deck? Wonder if either option would even be practical/feasible.
 
rainaviation2
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:44 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:42 am

Jshank83 wrote:
November domestic numbers on newer routes.
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 71% (1st month)
Sun Country to Fort Myers 66%
Sun Country to Tampa 66%(1st month)
Southwest to Hartford 88%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%


Those Sun Country numbers are terrible for a route that operates twice per week in November! I wonder if the December numbers will be any better.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:04 pm

rainaviation2 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
November domestic numbers on newer routes.
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 71% (1st month)
Sun Country to Fort Myers 66%
Sun Country to Tampa 66%(1st month)
Southwest to Hartford 88%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%


Those Sun Country numbers are terrible for a route that operates twice per week in November! I wonder if the December numbers will be any better.


New airline in a new market. People need to know they’re an option. Tampa was first month. Also, without daily service this also limits you to people who don’t have flexibility in their travel plans. I’d rather book WN knowing if my flight gets cancelled there’s always another one I may be able to get on.
 
pmanni1
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:17 pm

rainaviation2 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
November domestic numbers on newer routes.
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 71% (1st month)
Sun Country to Fort Myers 66%
Sun Country to Tampa 66%(1st month)
Southwest to Hartford 88%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%


Those Sun Country numbers are terrible for a route that operates twice per week in November! I wonder if the December numbers will be any better.

I'm guessing those numbers have improved since they doubled the number of flights to RSW for February and March.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:36 pm

^ I would expect them to go up. A little advertising wouldn’t hurt though.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:48 pm

Not bookable yet but of note. We will see if it is real or not.

AC STL-YYZ JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 3>4[3] OCT 3>4[3]
 
flybaby
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:20 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:40 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
November domestic numbers on newer routes.
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 71% (1st month)
Sun Country to Fort Myers 66%
Sun Country to Tampa 66%(1st month)
Southwest to Hartford 88%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%


G4 BLV-JAX service resumed a couple days ago. It will be interesting to see if this has any effects on F9 LFs out of STL.
 
rainaviation2
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:44 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:50 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
rainaviation2 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
November domestic numbers on newer routes.
Frontier to JAX 84%
Frontier to West Palm 71% (1st month)
Sun Country to Fort Myers 66%
Sun Country to Tampa 66%(1st month)
Southwest to Hartford 88%
Sacramento still yet to have a month under 90%


Those Sun Country numbers are terrible for a route that operates twice per week in November! I wonder if the December numbers will be any better.

I'm guessing those numbers have improved since they doubled the number of flights to RSW for February and March.


True, and they added PDX and MSP. I have a flight booked from MSP-STL in August, interested to see how they run the operation in STL.
 
STLflyer
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:08 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:49 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Not bookable yet but of note. We will see if it is real or not.

AC STL-YYZ JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 3>4[3] OCT 3>4[3]


Must be related to AC moving all of their regional flying from Air Georgian to Jazz.

Still, surprised at the increase in capacity. I’ve been on several STL-YYZ flights in the past and none of them were even close to full.
 
pmanni1
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:06 pm

STLflyer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Not bookable yet but of note. We will see if it is real or not.

AC STL-YYZ JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 3>4[3] OCT 3>4[3]


Must be related to AC moving all of their regional flying from Air Georgian to Jazz.

Still, surprised at the increase in capacity. I’ve been on several STL-YYZ flights in the past and none of them were even close to full.

This is one of those routes where load factors seem to hardly matter because the ticket prices are so exorbitant. From today through next Saturday all one way tickets are a minimum of $1100. They go down to $894 10 days out on Feb 27th.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:28 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Not bookable yet but of note. We will see if it is real or not.

AC STL-YYZ JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 3>4[3] OCT 3>4[3]


Must be related to AC moving all of their regional flying from Air Georgian to Jazz.

Still, surprised at the increase in capacity. I’ve been on several STL-YYZ flights in the past and none of them were even close to full.

This is one of those routes where load factors seem to hardly matter because the ticket prices are so exorbitant. From today through next Saturday all one way tickets are a minimum of $1100. They go down to $894 10 days out on Feb 27th.


Agreed. I would love to go to Toronto for a summer weekend, but never for 500 RT.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:36 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:

Must be related to AC moving all of their regional flying from Air Georgian to Jazz.

Still, surprised at the increase in capacity. I’ve been on several STL-YYZ flights in the past and none of them were even close to full.

This is one of those routes where load factors seem to hardly matter because the ticket prices are so exorbitant. From today through next Saturday all one way tickets are a minimum of $1100. They go down to $894 10 days out on Feb 27th.


Agreed. I would love to go to Toronto for a summer weekend, but never for 500 RT.


They usually have decent fares to Europe. So I am guessing in summer it’s a lot of onward connections also.
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:59 pm

AS upgauges SAN to a 737 on August 27th.
 
STLflyer
Posts: 226
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:23 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Not bookable yet but of note. We will see if it is real or not.

AC STL-YYZ JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 3>4[3] OCT 3>4[3]


Must be related to AC moving all of their regional flying from Air Georgian to Jazz.

Still, surprised at the increase in capacity. I’ve been on several STL-YYZ flights in the past and none of them were even close to full.

This is one of those routes where load factors seem to hardly matter because the ticket prices are so exorbitant. From today through next Saturday all one way tickets are a minimum of $1100. They go down to $894 10 days out on Feb 27th.


Yeah my flights there were never particularly cheap. I used to go there every now and then for work so I didn’t have to pay for it thankfully. About half the time, I had to choose something with a connection because the nonstop was so expensive, and the other times the nonstops were close enough to the price of a one stop that I could get away with booking them.

Those flights are definitely geared towards connections, with the business travelers going to YYZ subsidizing the cost of the half empty plane. Connecting through YYZ to Europe or Asia usually isn’t any more than going through any US hub. Haven’t done it yet though - as much as I hate ORD, I usually connect through there, the less time I spend on a regional jet, the better.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:11 am

Jshank83 wrote:
AS upgauges SAN to a 737 on August 27th.


So STL will be all 737.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
pmanni1
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:36 am

maps4ltd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
AS upgauges SAN to a 737 on August 27th.


So STL will be all 737.

All 739's. Too bad they haven't added back PDX. Now that SY has jumped on that it's doubtful they ever will.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:23 pm

What’s interesting is AC upgraded aircraft in other markets, but left STL the same, but added a frequency. Interesting.

As for AS, it would be interesting if they were to pick up a summer flight to ANC, even if not daily. I think they could also gain traction with another west coast destination.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:33 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
What’s interesting is AC upgraded aircraft in other markets, but left STL the same, but added a frequency. Interesting.

As for AS, it would be interesting if they were to pick up a summer flight to ANC, even if not daily. I think they could also gain traction with another west coast destination.


I talked to someone who works for them in STL. They said they have been told SFO is coming for a year now, so maybe that one will come here soon.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:26 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
What’s interesting is AC upgraded aircraft in other markets, but left STL the same, but added a frequency. Interesting.

As for AS, it would be interesting if they were to pick up a summer flight to ANC, even if not daily. I think they could also gain traction with another west coast destination.


I talked to someone who works for them in STL. They said they have been told SFO is coming for a year now, so maybe that one will come here soon.


I think SFO would work well and give them many connection opportunities.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2777
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:22 pm

Updated my Load Factor Spreadsheet for November.

Everything looked pretty good.

AS/UA/G4 all over 80%
F9 is all over 80% except PBI but it was its first month.
All west coast flights are strong (80s and 90s). SMF hasn't been under 90% yet in any month.
Sun Country is off to a rough start 66% but I would hope those would increase.
CVG is pretty much where it was last year.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:33 pm

Beginning June 8th DL starts 4x daily A321's to ATL. You can catch these at 6:00am,7:00am,5:50pm.7:00pm. I believe this is the most they've ever had on that route.
 
User avatar
TWA302
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:17 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:45 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Updated my Load Factor Spreadsheet for November.

Everything looked pretty good.

AS/UA/G4 all over 80%
F9 is all over 80% except PBI but it was its first month.
All west coast flights are strong (80s and 90s). SMF hasn't been under 90% yet in any month.
Sun Country is off to a rough start 66% but I would hope those would increase.
CVG is pretty much where it was last year.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


I am still shaking my head. When SY announced service here there has been zero marketing (from what I have seen) to say, HEY we are here. 66% isn't good.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:52 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Beginning June 8th DL starts 4x daily A321's to ATL. You can catch these at 6:00am,7:00am,5:50pm.7:00pm. I believe this is the most they've ever had on that route.


I think DL could really do well with another route or two out of STL. BOS and maybe LAX come to mind. JFK could be good for international feed/connections. This would give SkyTeam a better presence at STL.
It’s nice to see the A321 in STL.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2683
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:41 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
I think DL could really do well with another route or two out of STL. BOS and maybe LAX come to mind. JFK could be good for international feed/connections. This would give SkyTeam a better presence at STL.
It’s nice to see the A321 in STL.


I agree that DL could add nonstop service to BOS, LAX, and JFK from STL. In addition, DL could also add STL-SEA nonstop service since (a) DL already serves SEA nonstop from ORD, CVG, DTW, IND, MCI, MKE, and MSP in the Midwest, (b) STL is one of the top destinations traveled to from SEA that isn't currently served nonstop from SEA on DL, and (c) DL had added new nonstop routes out of SEA in the last 2 years
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:44 pm

Will the DL A321 thing mean the end of scheduled 757 service in STL?

Right now we get a mixture of 752 and M88s. Last summer, we got 739s and M88s. This summer, we're getting A321s and M88s. The Mad dogs seem to be a constant variable.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
kavok
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:40 am

jplatts wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
I think DL could really do well with another route or two out of STL. BOS and maybe LAX come to mind. JFK could be good for international feed/connections. This would give SkyTeam a better presence at STL.
It’s nice to see the A321 in STL.


I agree that DL could add nonstop service to BOS, LAX, and JFK from STL. In addition, DL could also add STL-SEA nonstop service since (a) DL already serves SEA nonstop from ORD, CVG, DTW, IND, MCI, MKE, and MSP in the Midwest, (b) STL is one of the top destinations traveled to from SEA that isn't currently served nonstop from SEA on DL, and (c) DL had added new nonstop routes out of SEA in the last 2 years


The big problem is the lack of gate space DL has, particularly at SEA and BOS. Once the remodels are done at LAX/BOS, I think those STL flights have a much better chance.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5028
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:40 am

Jshank83 wrote:
AS upgauges SAN to a 737 on August 27th.

I see this news has already been shared. (Of course it is 6 months out so things could change...)

So this fall, 3 daily mainline jets will fly every day between Lambert and Lindbergh -- nice! (Two are WN's.) It's a pretty quick upgrade for AS for a route that just started a bit over a year ago (in Dec 2017.) (That city on the west side of Missouri is also getting upgraded by AS on 8/27.)

I'm very happy to see many of SAN's EMJ routes are going mainline this year on AS, including STL. I love WN but it's nice to see them with some competition for once. I imagine most of you in STL feel the same way.

bb
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:06 am

maps4ltd wrote:
Will the DL A321 thing mean the end of scheduled 757 service in STL?

Right now we get a mixture of 752 and M88s. Last summer, we got 739s and M88s. This summer, we're getting A321s and M88s. The Mad dogs seem to be a constant variable.


We will see if the A321s stick. Could move them back to 757s before then. I would imagine things change before it is locked in.
 
StlHsvSfoSan
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:24 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:06 am

TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Updated my Load Factor Spreadsheet for November.

Everything looked pretty good.

AS/UA/G4 all over 80%
F9 is all over 80% except PBI but it was its first month.
All west coast flights are strong (80s and 90s). SMF hasn't been under 90% yet in any month.
Sun Country is off to a rough start 66% but I would hope those would increase.
CVG is pretty much where it was last year.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


I am still shaking my head. When SY announced service here there has been zero marketing (from what I have seen) to say, HEY we are here. 66% isn't good.


I did hear a radio advertisement for Sun Country the other day. I didn't catch the whole thing (was doing my usual channel-surfing in my car), but caught enough to hear the cities they served from STL. Hopefully they increase the marketing to improve their numbers.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:43 pm

kavok wrote:
jplatts wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
I think DL could really do well with another route or two out of STL. BOS and maybe LAX come to mind. JFK could be good for international feed/connections. This would give SkyTeam a better presence at STL.
It’s nice to see the A321 in STL.


I agree that DL could add nonstop service to BOS, LAX, and JFK from STL. In addition, DL could also add STL-SEA nonstop service since (a) DL already serves SEA nonstop from ORD, CVG, DTW, IND, MCI, MKE, and MSP in the Midwest, (b) STL is one of the top destinations traveled to from SEA that isn't currently served nonstop from SEA on DL, and (c) DL had added new nonstop routes out of SEA in the last 2 years


The big problem is the lack of gate space DL has, particularly at SEA and BOS. Once the remodels are done at LAX/BOS, I think those STL flights have a much better chance.


Oddly enough I think DL is also somewhat gate constrained at STL. I think they could take over A15 and the airport could move charter to C if needed, but in the mornings when I fly out of STL the DL gates are packed.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:26 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
kavok wrote:
jplatts wrote:

I agree that DL could add nonstop service to BOS, LAX, and JFK from STL. In addition, DL could also add STL-SEA nonstop service since (a) DL already serves SEA nonstop from ORD, CVG, DTW, IND, MCI, MKE, and MSP in the Midwest, (b) STL is one of the top destinations traveled to from SEA that isn't currently served nonstop from SEA on DL, and (c) DL had added new nonstop routes out of SEA in the last 2 years


The big problem is the lack of gate space DL has, particularly at SEA and BOS. Once the remodels are done at LAX/BOS, I think those STL flights have a much better chance.


Oddly enough I think DL is also somewhat gate constrained at STL. I think they could take over A15 and the airport could move charter to C if needed, but in the mornings when I fly out of STL the DL gates are packed.


They do use A9 for late night arrivals from SLC sometimes. I can't imagine they would use it for depatures though. Maybe on a CRJ200 to CVG or 700 but not a ton of room
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:27 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
kavok wrote:

The big problem is the lack of gate space DL has, particularly at SEA and BOS. Once the remodels are done at LAX/BOS, I think those STL flights have a much better chance.


Oddly enough I think DL is also somewhat gate constrained at STL. I think they could take over A15 and the airport could move charter to C if needed, but in the mornings when I fly out of STL the DL gates are packed.


They do use A9 for late night arrivals from SLC sometimes. I can't imagine they would use it for depatures though. Maybe on a CRJ200 to CVG or 700 but not a ton of room


Yeah, especially since that restaurant now has seating that covers the front of A9. Realistically A15 would make the most sense and they can fit a mainline aircraft over there. Move charters over to C or "D" if D reopens for WN. I wish DL had room for a SkyClub, but I have no idea where they would put it unless they built it on the roof of A.
 
N383SW
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:56 pm

[photoid]
dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:


Yeah, especially since that restaurant now has seating that covers the front of A9. Realistically A15 would make the most sense and they can fit a mainline aircraft over there. Move charters over to C or "D" if D reopens for WN. I wish DL had room for a SkyClub, but I have no idea where they would put it unless they built it on the roof of A.


What happened to the area where the UA Red Carpet club used to be? I haven’t been on the A Concourse for about 10 years so I have no idea what’s going on over there lol.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:25 pm

N383SW wrote:
[photoid]
dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:


What happened to the area where the UA Red Carpet club used to be? I haven’t been on the A Concourse for about 10 years so I have no idea what’s going on over there lol.


I didn't know they ever had a club here. Where was it?
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:26 pm

2019 PFC Application is out.

Only thing on it is the expansion for baggage in T2. Lots of details in it if you feel like reading.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... y-2019.pdf
 
N383SW
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:49 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
N383SW wrote:
[photoid]
dcaproducer wrote:


What happened to the area where the UA Red Carpet club used to be? I haven’t been on the A Concourse for about 10 years so I have no idea what’s going on over there lol.


I didn't know they ever had a club here. Where was it?


I'm trying to find information about it but I'm not having any luck. IIRC it was near A18 (between A16 and A18) but the last time I remember seeing it was back in like 96 or 97 while boarding a 727 to ORD.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:17 am

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:

Oddly enough I think DL is also somewhat gate constrained at STL. I think they could take over A15 and the airport could move charter to C if needed, but in the mornings when I fly out of STL the DL gates are packed.


They do use A9 for late night arrivals from SLC sometimes. I can't imagine they would use it for depatures though. Maybe on a CRJ200 to CVG or 700 but not a ton of room


Yeah, especially since that restaurant now has seating that covers the front of A9. Realistically A15 would make the most sense and they can fit a mainline aircraft over there. Move charters over to C or "D" if D reopens for WN. I wish DL had room for a SkyClub, but I have no idea where they would put it unless they built it on the roof of A.


I think like you say if DL wanted another gate they would just move the Charters to C. Pretty easy move. They could probably work in a BOS/SEA/LAX flight though. Have it leave somewhere after all the early morning flights. If they are just once a day to start.
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