pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
reednavy wrote:
I do wonder if/when B6 will enter the market. If they were truly wanting to get more foothold in the middle of the country, STL would be a great opportunity for a potential focus operation, granted going toe-to-toe with WN would be a heavy undertaking.


Wn would kill them if they try more than Bos and jfk. They don't have the financial resources for such a battle. They are not intentionally ignoring middle of the country. They are just flying to places where they can get better return. And currently, they are reluctant to add more than one City from middle of the country per year.


Other nearby airports have 3 or 4 carriers to BOS. BNA has WN and DL on the route. MSP has DL and SY. ORD & MDW have WN,AA,UA & NK. Seems like STL could support another.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:30 pm

November (and probably December matches it) frequency spreadsheet is done for Southwest. This is for NON holiday weeks. It ramps up for Thanksgiving/Christmas.

Lots of no Saturday service to cities so Saturday flights are way down. BDL/DTW/CLE/CMH/OAK/PIT/SEA/SLC/SMF/SJC all have no Saturday service even though some of those are 3x every other day of the week. Odd.

Up 30 flights (4%) overall though

Mon-Fri 119
Saturday 66
Sunday 124
785 weekly

Far right tab.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:39 pm

4th Qtr O&D Numbers

Change from 2017 YoY (One Way)

Biggest gains
Miami (metro) +43
Wash DC +39
San Diego +32
Phoenix +30
Sacramento +29
Jacksonville +26
New Orleans +23
Hartford +22

Biggest losses
Denver -42
Atlanta -30
Chicago -21

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:33 pm

So forget B6, when will NK enter the market. They are squaring off against WN at BNA, what's to stop them from doing the same in STL?
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:50 am

FWIW, I got a message from someone on twitter today that said they were talking to a Sun Country Rep and they consider STL a focus city. Now I think focus city means a much different thing to Sun Country than other airlines. I don't see us getting a ton of flights, but at least it sounds like they are in it for the long run here. Which is good to hear. If they could get to 5 or 6 destinations at a time (maybe an F9 level of service) that would be great. I do like they they are flying to non beach markets some of the time. We need more low cost on those type of routes.

He mentioned providence but I don't know if that was him speculating or something the rep threw out there.
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:16 am

Jshank83 wrote:
He mentioned providence but I don't know if that was him speculating or something the rep threw out there.


WN adding STL-PVD nonstop service is also a possibility as PVD is one of the top destinations traveled to from STL that isn't currently served nonstop from STL.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:35 am

Jshank83 wrote:
FWIW, I got a message from someone on twitter today that said they were talking to a Sun Country Rep and they consider STL a focus city. Now I think focus city means a much different thing to Sun Country than other airlines. I don't see us getting a ton of flights, but at least it sounds like they are in it for the long run here. Which is good to hear. If they could get to 5 or 6 destinations at a time (maybe an F9 level of service) that would be great. I do like they they are flying to non beach markets some of the time. We need more low cost on those type of routes.

He mentioned providence but I don't know if that was him speculating or something the rep threw out there.

No matter what we are called officially, the fact that we are constantly getting adds shows we are a focus city. I think once msp became year round it solidified their commitment to the Stl region
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:09 pm

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
FWIW, I got a message from someone on twitter today that said they were talking to a Sun Country Rep and they consider STL a focus city. Now I think focus city means a much different thing to Sun Country than other airlines. I don't see us getting a ton of flights, but at least it sounds like they are in it for the long run here. Which is good to hear. If they could get to 5 or 6 destinations at a time (maybe an F9 level of service) that would be great. I do like they they are flying to non beach markets some of the time. We need more low cost on those type of routes.

He mentioned providence but I don't know if that was him speculating or something the rep threw out there.

No matter what we are called officially, the fact that we are constantly getting adds shows we are a focus city. I think once msp became year round it solidified their commitment to the Stl region


When their flights are daily, that will be a good sign. Focus may translate into a market they are focusing efforts on, which does appear to be true.
They may have also decided STL would be a good fit since there is no NK or B6.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:27 pm

SY starts STL-PDX/MSP up today.
WN brings bank PNS/MBJ this month
DL brings back MCO.

Really interested to see how PDX on SY does. When AS cut it it was getting good loads. Happy to have a 2nd airline on that route.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:20 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
SY starts STL-PDX/MSP up today.
WN brings bank PNS/MBJ this month
DL brings back MCO.

Really interested to see how PDX on SY does. When AS cut it it was getting good loads. Happy to have a 2nd airline on that route.


I'm sure this is somewhere in this thread, what's SY's full STL schedule now? I also take it their schedule allows them to operate from one gate? If they did want a second gate, which gate do you think they'd get?
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:11 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
SY starts STL-PDX/MSP up today.
WN brings bank PNS/MBJ this month
DL brings back MCO.

Really interested to see how PDX on SY does. When AS cut it it was getting good loads. Happy to have a 2nd airline on that route.


I'm sure this is somewhere in this thread, what's SY's full STL schedule now? I also take it their schedule allows them to operate from one gate? If they did want a second gate, which gate do you think they'd get?


Yes. Just C28. C30 should be ready to go soon if it isn’t already. Also could probably work around Contours schedule at C27 if needed.

That said only 2 routes at the moment.
MSP 4x a week
PDX 2x a week

Fall PDX switches to LAS. 2x a week
Winter LAS goes away and RSW/TPA come back. 2x a week.

So max it’s only 2 flights a day (maybe 3 winter but I think RSW/TPA fun different days). Shouldn’t need gate space for awhile.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:17 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
SY starts STL-PDX/MSP up today.
WN brings bank PNS/MBJ this month
DL brings back MCO.

Really interested to see how PDX on SY does. When AS cut it it was getting good loads. Happy to have a 2nd airline on that route.


I'm sure this is somewhere in this thread, what's SY's full STL schedule now? I also take it their schedule allows them to operate from one gate? If they did want a second gate, which gate do you think they'd get?


Yes. Just C28. C30 should be ready to go soon if it isn’t already. Also could probably work around Contours schedule at C27 if needed.

That said only 2 routes at the moment.
MSP 4x a week
PDX 2x a week

Fall PDX switches to LAS. 2x a week
Winter LAS goes away and RSW/TPA come back. 2x a week.

So max it’s only 2 flights a day (maybe 3 winter but I think RSW/TPA fun different days). Shouldn’t need gate space for awhile.


That’s a very odd schedule and it would seem difficult to build any brand loyalty. I think STL would be better served by NK, which has the resources to make a bigger push into the market.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:12 pm

NK is in growth mode, so I would be shocked if they didn’t add St Louis soon. Is STL management effective? Once BNA had a management and culture change, Nashville definitely started seeing new things from air carriers.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:48 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
That’s a very odd schedule and it would seem difficult to build any brand loyalty. I think STL would be better served by NK, which has the resources to make a bigger push into the market.


southwest1675 wrote:
NK is in growth mode, so I would be shocked if they didn’t add St Louis soon. Is STL management effective? Once BNA had a management and culture change, Nashville definitely started seeing new things from air carriers.


If NK does enter the STL market, NK will likely add nonstop service out of STL to some destinations that SY doesn't currently serve nonstop from STL such as BWI, DFW, DTW, FLL, MYR, MSY, and MCO.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:43 pm

jplatts wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
That’s a very odd schedule and it would seem difficult to build any brand loyalty. I think STL would be better served by NK, which has the resources to make a bigger push into the market.


southwest1675 wrote:
NK is in growth mode, so I would be shocked if they didn’t add St Louis soon. Is STL management effective? Once BNA had a management and culture change, Nashville definitely started seeing new things from air carriers.


If NK does enter the STL market, NK will likely add nonstop service out of STL to some destinations that SY doesn't currently serve nonstop from STL such as BWI, DFW, DTW, FLL, MYR, MSY, and MCO.


I agree if they enter they'll start with several routes. MSY, FLL, MYR make sense.
I would think AA would strongly defend STL-DTW. It would be interesting to see how WN would respond to BWI.
 
N383SW
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:06 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
jplatts wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
That’s a very odd schedule and it would seem difficult to build any brand loyalty. I think STL would be better served by NK, which has the resources to make a bigger push into the market.


southwest1675 wrote:
NK is in growth mode, so I would be shocked if they didn’t add St Louis soon. Is STL management effective? Once BNA had a management and culture change, Nashville definitely started seeing new things from air carriers.


If NK does enter the STL market, NK will likely add nonstop service out of STL to some destinations that SY doesn't currently serve nonstop from STL such as BWI, DFW, DTW, FLL, MYR, MSY, and MCO.


I agree if they enter they'll start with several routes. MSY, FLL, MYR make sense.
I would think AA would strongly defend STL-DTW. It would be interesting to see how WN would respond to BWI.


AA doesn’t have nonstop DTW anymore... did you mean WN or DL?
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:18 pm

N383SW wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
I agree if they enter they'll start with several routes. MSY, FLL, MYR make sense.
I would think AA would strongly defend STL-DTW. It would be interesting to see how WN would respond to BWI.


AA doesn’t have nonstop DTW anymore... did you mean WN or DL?


NK might be able to make STL-DTW nonstop service work, even though WN and DL both already serve DTW nonstop from STL, as NK already serves DTW nonstop from MCI and MSP in the Midwest. There are also some leisure travelers in the Detroit area who would be willing to fly to STL on NK if NK added DTW-STL nonstop service. STL also has tourist attractions such as Forest Park and the Gateway Arch that would drive demand for DTW-STL nonstop service on NK if NK adds DTW-STL nonstop service.

While I agree that AA would strongly defend STL-DFW, NK might be able to make STL-DFW nonstop service work as NK already serves DFW nonstop from ORD, CLE, DTW, and MSP in the Midwest.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:32 am

jplatts wrote:
N383SW wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
I agree if they enter they'll start with several routes. MSY, FLL, MYR make sense.
I would think AA would strongly defend STL-DTW. It would be interesting to see how WN would respond to BWI.


AA doesn’t have nonstop DTW anymore... did you mean WN or DL?


NK might be able to make STL-DTW nonstop service work, even though WN and DL both already serve DTW nonstop from STL, as NK already serves DTW nonstop from MCI and MSP in the Midwest. There are also some leisure travelers in the Detroit area who would be willing to fly to STL on NK if NK added DTW-STL nonstop service. STL also has tourist attractions such as Forest Park and the Gateway Arch that would drive demand for DTW-STL nonstop service on NK if NK adds DTW-STL nonstop service.

While I agree that AA would strongly defend STL-DFW, NK might be able to make STL-DFW nonstop service work as NK already serves DFW nonstop from ORD, CLE, DTW, and MSP in the Midwest.


According to therouteshop.com, STL has the following routes underserved or not served at all (I think airports post these, I might be mistaken):

ABQ, AUS, CHS, CLE, BDL, HNL (unrealistic for NK), JAX, LHR (also unrealistic for NK), ORF, OAK, ONT, SNA, PDX, PVD, RIC, SMF, SAN, SJC, SJU, SEA, and PBI.

Of these, I'd say that PBI, SAN, and AUS are most likely. I'd also throw LAS, TPA/MCO, and FLL into the mix if they wind up actually serving STL.
Thinking of a good signature is hard...
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:26 am

NK won’t fly to DTW from STL. There are already plenty of seats on that route. I don’t think MSY gets added either. Loads weren’t all that great on WN last year.
 
Trololzilla
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:56 am

southwest1675 wrote:
NK is in growth mode, so I would be shocked if they didn’t add St Louis soon. Is STL management effective? Once BNA had a management and culture change, Nashville definitely started seeing new things from air carriers.

STL's airport management team is exceptional, at least when considering the overall shittiness of the people in the St. Louis metro's various governments. Rhonda Hamm-Niebrugge has done a great job at leading the airport since she took over: it's had passenger growth every month for nearly 3 and a half straight years; a CPE that's been steadily declining and now sits under $9, solidly middle of the pack for comparable airports; no major capital expenses (at least nothing approaching the cost of the new runway); steadily increasing bond ratings and decreasing debt service; new destinations from existing airlines (primarily Southwest); and entirely new airlines beginning service. The overall terminal renovations are done, and now what's left is renovating and reopening the remainder of the vacant concourses and general infrastructure improvements. There's also the likely increase in cargo traffic as the airport's Northern Tract is eventually repurposed into a cargo facility (one of the primary goals of the 2015 Strategic Outlook). Southwest continues to seem to want to add to build up STL, as they're allegedly fairly close to pouncing on the next set of D gates, and will soon have expanded baggage capacity for even more future growth.

Honestly, I'm not sure how focused STL's management is on getting service from NK. I'm sure they'd be happy with it, as they have in the past stated that they would like to diversify service so that they don't make the mistake that STL made in the past and become reliant on a sole carrier, but I doubt they'd be too upset if it doesn't come to pass. STL will more than likely do just fine with or without them, to be honest.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:40 pm

That was a typo. I meant STL-DFW. DTW already has DL and WN service. NK wouldn’t want to compete with that.

Once the MAX issues are fixed, I think WN will be back in a good place to add more routes/capacity. I think it’s not if, but when the rest of D will open and connect the two terminals.
It sounded like the airport was also looking to enlarge its customs facility, so that may lead to something.

The airport has made it clear adding new service is a priority. More airlines also provide more options. Given some of the other markets NK has entered it is odd they have avoided STL so far.

Aside from NK, it would be nice if DL tried a few new routes. I think they cold really do well on a few additional routes.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:20 pm

Also, didn't see this mentioned yet, the State of Illinois wants to spend $96 million to extend MetroLink to MidAmerica.

Sources:
https://www.bnd.com/news/politics-gover ... 33543.html
https://chi.streetsblog.org/2019/06/04/ ... ture-bill/
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:14 am

Trololzilla wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
NK is in growth mode, so I would be shocked if they didn’t add St Louis soon. Is STL management effective? Once BNA had a management and culture change, Nashville definitely started seeing new things from air carriers.

STL's airport management team is exceptional, at least when considering the overall shittiness of the people in the St. Louis metro's various governments. Rhonda Hamm-Niebrugge has done a great job at leading the airport since she took over: it's had passenger growth every month for nearly 3 and a half straight years; a CPE that's been steadily declining and now sits under $9, solidly middle of the pack for comparable airports; no major capital expenses (at least nothing approaching the cost of the new runway); steadily increasing bond ratings and decreasing debt service; new destinations from existing airlines (primarily Southwest); and entirely new airlines beginning service. The overall terminal renovations are done, and now what's left is renovating and reopening the remainder of the vacant concourses and general infrastructure improvements. There's also the likely increase in cargo traffic as the airport's Northern Tract is eventually repurposed into a cargo facility (one of the primary goals of the 2015 Strategic Outlook). Southwest continues to seem to want to add to build up STL, as they're allegedly fairly close to pouncing on the next set of D gates, and will soon have expanded baggage capacity for even more future growth.

Honestly, I'm not sure how focused STL's management is on getting service from NK. I'm sure they'd be happy with it, as they have in the past stated that they would like to diversify service so that they don't make the mistake that STL made in the past and become reliant on a sole carrier, but I doubt they'd be too upset if it doesn't come to pass. STL will more than likely do just fine with or without them, to be honest.

I do agree that Niebrugge has done a fantastic job for STL. I do wonder if she's not doing enough. BNA has a smaller metro but has been able to lure NK,B6 & BA as well as DL to BOS & SEA. All of which STL has not.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:28 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Trololzilla wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
NK is in growth mode, so I would be shocked if they didn’t add St Louis soon. Is STL management effective? Once BNA had a management and culture change, Nashville definitely started seeing new things from air carriers.

STL's airport management team is exceptional, at least when considering the overall shittiness of the people in the St. Louis metro's various governments. Rhonda Hamm-Niebrugge has done a great job at leading the airport since she took over: it's had passenger growth every month for nearly 3 and a half straight years; a CPE that's been steadily declining and now sits under $9, solidly middle of the pack for comparable airports; no major capital expenses (at least nothing approaching the cost of the new runway); steadily increasing bond ratings and decreasing debt service; new destinations from existing airlines (primarily Southwest); and entirely new airlines beginning service. The overall terminal renovations are done, and now what's left is renovating and reopening the remainder of the vacant concourses and general infrastructure improvements. There's also the likely increase in cargo traffic as the airport's Northern Tract is eventually repurposed into a cargo facility (one of the primary goals of the 2015 Strategic Outlook). Southwest continues to seem to want to add to build up STL, as they're allegedly fairly close to pouncing on the next set of D gates, and will soon have expanded baggage capacity for even more future growth.

Honestly, I'm not sure how focused STL's management is on getting service from NK. I'm sure they'd be happy with it, as they have in the past stated that they would like to diversify service so that they don't make the mistake that STL made in the past and become reliant on a sole carrier, but I doubt they'd be too upset if it doesn't come to pass. STL will more than likely do just fine with or without them, to be honest.

I do agree that Niebrugge has done a fantastic job for STL. I do wonder if she's not doing enough. BNA has a smaller metro but has been able to lure NK,B6 & BA as well as DL to BOS & SEA. All of which STL has not.


BNA has higher O&D. That’s helps a lot.
 
kipfilet
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:00 pm

Economic conditions and trends are very different between St. Louis and Nashville.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:53 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Trololzilla wrote:
STL's airport management team is exceptional, at least when considering the overall shittiness of the people in the St. Louis metro's various governments. Rhonda Hamm-Niebrugge has done a great job at leading the airport since she took over: it's had passenger growth every month for nearly 3 and a half straight years; a CPE that's been steadily declining and now sits under $9, solidly middle of the pack for comparable airports; no major capital expenses (at least nothing approaching the cost of the new runway); steadily increasing bond ratings and decreasing debt service; new destinations from existing airlines (primarily Southwest); and entirely new airlines beginning service. The overall terminal renovations are done, and now what's left is renovating and reopening the remainder of the vacant concourses and general infrastructure improvements. There's also the likely increase in cargo traffic as the airport's Northern Tract is eventually repurposed into a cargo facility (one of the primary goals of the 2015 Strategic Outlook). Southwest continues to seem to want to add to build up STL, as they're allegedly fairly close to pouncing on the next set of D gates, and will soon have expanded baggage capacity for even more future growth.

Honestly, I'm not sure how focused STL's management is on getting service from NK. I'm sure they'd be happy with it, as they have in the past stated that they would like to diversify service so that they don't make the mistake that STL made in the past and become reliant on a sole carrier, but I doubt they'd be too upset if it doesn't come to pass. STL will more than likely do just fine with or without them, to be honest.

I do agree that Niebrugge has done a fantastic job for STL. I do wonder if she's not doing enough. BNA has a smaller metro but has been able to lure NK,B6 & BA as well as DL to BOS & SEA. All of which STL has not.


BNA has higher O&D. That’s helps a lot.


Where are you finding accurate O&D numbers that indicate the difference between the markets? STL reported connecting traffic hovering around 22% last year. That still puts daily O&D around 34,000. The most recent stat I found for BNA had O&D around 85%, which is great, but that puts them at about 37,000 daily.

In terms of traffic to STL, I don't think it's the airport, it's the city/county that need to attract O&D. They could use a HUGE PR push to promote the city. They need to lure in more conventions, tourists, etc. One of the world's largest PR firms is headquartered right in downtown St. Louis, maybe they could help revitalize the city's image. (partially sarcastic)

The city also needs to boost its economic indicators. This comes from a very business friendly environment, among other things.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:29 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
I do agree that Niebrugge has done a fantastic job for STL. I do wonder if she's not doing enough. BNA has a smaller metro but has been able to lure NK,B6 & BA as well as DL to BOS & SEA. All of which STL has not.


BNA has higher O&D. That’s helps a lot.


Where are you finding accurate O&D numbers that indicate the difference between the markets? STL reported connecting traffic hovering around 22% last year. That still puts daily O&D around 34,000. The most recent stat I found for BNA had O&D around 85%, which is great, but that puts them at about 37,000 daily.

In terms of traffic to STL, I don't think it's the airport, it's the city/county that need to attract O&D. They could use a HUGE PR push to promote the city. They need to lure in more conventions, tourists, etc. One of the world's largest PR firms is headquartered right in downtown St. Louis, maybe they could help revitalize the city's image. (partially sarcastic)

The city also needs to boost its economic indicators. This comes from a very business friendly environment, among other things.


One of the MCI airport employees posts them periodically for like sized airport. Last I saw it wasn't a huge difference but BNA had more.

3,000 a day is 20 more flights a day (150 seat plane). Which is a fair amount for the airports size.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:09 am

Watched the airport commission meeting from last week.

Lots of construction updates.

Lactation stations being installed at A9/C9/E33.

More benches have been installed between E34-40 to help with seating issues in that area.

A Dunkin Donuts express/cart is getting installed at E40.

Another set of new seats/outlets sounds like it will be installed at C9.

The ground transportation center is being renovated. May include concession space. Images look nice. This is used to transition from metro bus to the terminal shuttle. Sounds like Greyhound may let off there also.

New signage, big STL letters at the entrance to the airport are going in.

Sounds like the renovations to C29/30 are done. C30 is waiting on a jetbridge.

There was a long conversation about congestion fixes at T2. They are putting in another place for cars to park just east of T2. Most of the conversation centered around arguments on who should get to use it. It sounds like at the moment it will be ride sharing (pick ups and drop offs) but one of the board members who seemed to work for enterprise wasn't thrilled about them getting to use it and not busses. Marlene Davis also wasn't a fan but also forgot she had already seen the plans.

New parking garage entrances are going in for T2. One off the main airline drive (opens fall) and one after the turn in to T2 (opens spring). The road after the turn in will be one way. No more turning left off off Air Cargo Road. There will be 2 lanes going down to arrival and 2 going to drop offs. No more going thru arrivals to get to the parking garage.


If you feel like watching.

https://www.fly314.com/6-5-19-airport-c ... n-meeting/
 
LambertMan
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:36 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Watched the airport commission meeting from last week.

Lots of construction updates.

Lactation stations being installed at A9/C9/E33.

More benches have been installed between E34-40 to help with seating issues in that area.

A Dunkin Donuts express/cart is getting installed at E40.

Another set of new seats/outlets sounds like it will be installed at C9.

The ground transportation center is being renovated. May include concession space. Images look nice. This is used to transition from metro bus to the terminal shuttle. Sounds like Greyhound may let off there also.

New signage, big STL letters at the entrance to the airport are going in.

Sounds like the renovations to C29/30 are done. C30 is waiting on a jetbridge.

There was a long conversation about congestion fixes at T2. They are putting in another place for cars to park just east of T2. Most of the conversation centered around arguments on who should get to use it. It sounds like at the moment it will be ride sharing (pick ups and drop offs) but one of the board members who seemed to work for enterprise wasn't thrilled about them getting to use it and not busses. Marlene Davis also wasn't a fan but also forgot she had already seen the plans.

New parking garage entrances are going in for T2. One off the main airline drive (opens fall) and one after the turn in to T2 (opens spring). The road after the turn in will be one way. No more turning left off off Air Cargo Road. There will be 2 lanes going down to arrival and 2 going to drop offs. No more going thru arrivals to get to the parking garage.


If you feel like watching.

https://www.fly314.com/6-5-19-airport-c ... n-meeting/

I'm late to the game here, but what in the world are they installing gates at C29 and C30 for? Aren't there several unused gates on the south side of the C concourse already? It makes more sense to keep re-opening parts of D. Regardless of my opinion, I'll be interested to see what it looks like back there. I went back to C28 last time I was in town (late at night) and it was eerie back there. Not a great first impression of St. Louis.

BTW - can't someone email the airport and get a couple of shots of the upstairs areas at this point? I'd love to know what's remaining up there.
 
TangoAlphaWhisk
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:47 am

Wasn't there an Ambassador club above C28 and C27?
 
Fargo
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:59 am

Curious to know this.

In light of all the terminal expansion/replacement projects going on at airports, both large and mid-sized, around the country, has there been any serious talk of building a new terminal complex at STL to modernize facilities and consolidate everything in one terminal (like MCI and PIT are doing)?

It seems STL would have an easier time doing it if they wanted to than some of its rivals, considering the amount of gate space on D they could use while hypothetically speaking A,B and C were torn down and rebuilt into a singular concourse.
 
PC12Fan
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:05 am

LambertMan wrote:
BTW - can't someone email the airport and get a couple of shots of the upstairs areas at this point? I'd love to know what's remaining up there.


Me too. When I left a couple/few years ago, TSA was the main "tenant". The old Ambassadors Club was still empty. Felt a lot of nostalgia in my last couple walk throughs of the place.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:04 am

LambertMan wrote:
I'm late to the game here, but what in the world are they installing gates at C29 and C30 for? Aren't there several unused gates on the south side of the C concourse already? It makes more sense to keep re-opening parts of D. Regardless of my opinion, I'll be interested to see what it looks like back there. I went back to C28 last time I was in town (late at night) and it was eerie back there. Not a great first impression of St. Louis.

BTW - can't someone email the airport and get a couple of shots of the upstairs areas at this point? I'd love to know what's remaining up there.


All of the open gates in C are full. Now some don't get a lot of use, ie Sun Country, but all have an airline attached to them. C28 is Sun Country (0 to 2 flights a day) and C27 is Contour (2 flights a day). AA also had been using C28 as overflow. So they could put airlines together on those but they renovated C29/30 so that that would have open gates, if needed. The airport tends to not be proactive so we will see if that is foreshadowing for a new airline to come in.


Fargo wrote:
Curious to know this.

In light of all the terminal expansion/replacement projects going on at airports, both large and mid-sized, around the country, has there been any serious talk of building a new terminal complex at STL to modernize facilities and consolidate everything in one terminal (like MCI and PIT are doing)?

It seems STL would have an easier time doing it if they wanted to than some of its rivals, considering the amount of gate space on D they could use while hypothetically speaking A,B and C were torn down and rebuilt into a singular concourse.


Until the privatization thing is all worked out they aren't doing any major projects. I guess the Southwest baggage expansion is major-ish but anything like a new terminal or major tear down and rebuild isn't happening until it is over. They won't want to do major renovations/take on debt if it could scare anyone off from bidding. So the airport is in a holding pattern which is quite annoying. If they were going to do it they should have 5 years ago before more of the airport has been expanded back into now.
 
Trololzilla
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:09 am

pmanni1 wrote:
I do agree that Niebrugge has done a fantastic job for STL. I do wonder if she's not doing enough. BNA has a smaller metro but has been able to lure NK,B6 & BA as well as DL to BOS & SEA. All of which STL has not.

As mentioned above, O&D traffic, economic conditions, and the nature of how those airlines expand and from where they fly certainly has a lot to do with it. I'm sure the airport is constantly in talks with all of those airlines (and more) to get feelers, if nothing else. B6 might work here, but might not simply due to their preference in markets. NK I wouldn't be surprised to show up here at some point, but again, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't, either. I can definitely see DL adding one, two, or even all of BOS, SEA, and JFK from STL. They would have to play it smart, though.

LambertMan wrote:
I'm late to the game here, but what in the world are they installing gates at C29 and C30 for? Aren't there several unused gates on the south side of the C concourse already? It makes more sense to keep re-opening parts of D. Regardless of my opinion, I'll be interested to see what it looks like back there. I went back to C28 last time I was in town (late at night) and it was eerie back there. Not a great first impression of St. Louis.

Jshank knows more about it, but IIRC, it's primarily to relieve pressure during peaks and offer extra capacity for new destinations/airlines going forward. Not sure what you mean by the southern gates - I'm pretty sure all of them in C up to C27/C28 are used at least semi-regularly. The only other place they could put in extra jetways before the end of the concourse would be the first few C gates (C1, C3, etc.) that are currently used as ramp space by the EAS carriers.

Fargo wrote:
Curious to know this.

In light of all the terminal expansion/replacement projects going on at airports, both large and mid-sized, around the country, has there been any serious talk of building a new terminal complex at STL to modernize facilities and consolidate everything in one terminal (like MCI and PIT are doing)?

It seems STL would have an easier time doing it if they wanted to than some of its rivals, considering the amount of gate space on D they could use while hypothetically speaking A,B and C were torn down and rebuilt into a singular concourse.

A singular concourse for T1 has long been discussed for STL by 'outsiders' like us here (hell, concepts have even been created for it). While there would certainly be benefits to doing so, I'm not sure the airport has the motive (or necessarily the means) to do so as long as the current system "works", which, I mean, it technically does. From a cost/benefit analysis perspective, it probably makes more sense to just keep what's left of the vacant spaces mothballed till they're needed again and then 'cheaply' (relatively speaking) renovate and reactivate them - no new construction required, no real hassle , no workarounds needed. There's also the ability to exercise the option on the midfield terminal at some point, if needed, though that would be a long ways away.

We've also seen in the past where large capital expenditures at peer airports haven't exactly had the positive effect on traffic that the planners were hoping for, simply because the costs are passed on to the airlines. While new terminals certainly look very good, that doesn't always mean that the market will react very favorably towards them. I'm totally for a new/consolidated terminal/concourse at Lambert, but it has to make financial sense first. Lambert's still paying off the runway, and only recently have really "recovered" from that expense. Not to mention there's the whole 'privatization' boondoggle to sort out, first.

Echo the sentiment for the upstairs pictures though, especially of the Ambassador's Lounge.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:16 am

One other thing I will add. If Southwest wants anything done it will get done, ie new baggage claim. They hired their own consultants for a privatization study and for the traffic congestion problems in T2. So they are involved with everything T2.

But everyone else will have to wait.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:38 pm

Any airport re-development, new terminal, etc will be completely airline driven. It's a massive expense and STL just got its CPE down to a reasonable number for the type of market. Some airports can get away with the higher CPE because the demand is there (DCA).

If a strong, dominant carrier at STL wants a new terminal, it would happen. The renovations to A/C aren't bad. From a business perspective it makes sense to fill the place as much as possible, build passenger numbers and then look at new terminal plans.

On thing STL has that many other similar sized markets don't have is gate space. Since STL used to be a major hub it has gates to spare. This provides big flexibility with minimal expense to bring new gates online. I think WN will eventually take most if not all of D.

Speaking of the old days, who remember when the gates were numbered sequentially across all of the concourses?
 
STLflyer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:14 am

So, does anyone know if the Stanley Cup can be placed in a seat, or must it go in the cargo hold or overhead bin? ;)
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:28 am

STLflyer wrote:
So, does anyone know if the Stanley Cup can be placed in a seat, or must it go in the cargo hold or overhead bin? ;)

Should be in Bennington I mean O Reilly's lap
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:32 am

STLflyer wrote:
So, does anyone know if the Stanley Cup can be placed in a seat, or must it go in the cargo hold or overhead bin? ;)

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411815&p=21429859#p21429859
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
STLflyer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:59 am

After work, I'm gonna have to pull the ATC recordings of their flight returning home and see if there's any fun comms between Blues Force One and ATC
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:20 am

So out of curiosity, anyone know what the Omni Air 763 was up to?

Image

Image
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
STLflyer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:47 am

STLflyer wrote:
After work, I'm gonna have to pull the ATC recordings of their flight returning home and see if there's any fun comms between Blues Force One and ATC


Comms with SWQ2386 were completely routine and professional. Nothing worth listening to. Was hoping ATC would welcome the champs home or do something to break up an otherwise boring, uneventful night.
 
TangoAlphaWhisk
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:41 am

Came across a photo of the old Ambassador Lounge above C28 and C27
https://web.archive.org/web/20010611052 ... y1stll.jpg
 
Trololzilla
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:33 am

TangoAlphaWhisk wrote:
Came across a photo of the old Ambassador Lounge above C28 and C27
https://web.archive.org/web/20010611052 ... y1stll.jpg

Thank you for finding that; I hadn't been able to find any pictures of it online anymore. Hmm... it seems a bit more tacky than I remember it looking in the previous pictures I've seen of it. What's with the carnival lights on the ceiling?
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:43 pm

TangoAlphaWhisk wrote:
Came across a photo of the old Ambassador Lounge above C28 and C27
https://web.archive.org/web/20010611052 ... y1stll.jpg


Great find. That looks like it's an employee event. Was it before the lounge opened? I can't imagine a lounge with banquet tables/chairs. I'm also surprised how low the ceiling is.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:59 pm

symphonicpoet wrote:
So out of curiosity, anyone know what the Omni Air 763 was up to?

Image

Image


She went to DFW after this. Since OY is a huge military charter I can only venture that is was a military personnel flight. OAE361
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:19 pm

Anyone have any questions for STLAVDay tomorrow. I’ll ask if I get a chance.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:32 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Anyone have any questions for STLAVDay tomorrow. I’ll ask if I get a chance.


-What’s the status of the end of C?
-What’s the status of the dual customs cargo facility?
-Any thoughts on a combined rental car facility? Fewer buses would help over at T2.
-How many gates would WN have to take for them to open D all the way to T1?

They aren’t going to reveal anything in terms of new service/airlines, so asking about things that are fairly general should reveal a lot.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:19 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Anyone have any questions for STLAVDay tomorrow. I’ll ask if I get a chance.

Have they talked to Volaris or any other airline currently at STL about service to non-beach/buisness destinations in Mexico like MEX/Toluca or even Guadalajara?
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Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:16 am

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Anyone have any questions for STLAVDay tomorrow. I’ll ask if I get a chance.


-What’s the status of the end of C?
-What’s the status of the dual customs cargo facility?
-Any thoughts on a combined rental car facility? Fewer buses would help over at T2.
-How many gates would WN have to take for them to open D all the way to T1?

They aren’t going to reveal anything in terms of new service/airlines, so asking about things that are fairly general should reveal a lot.


By end of C do you mean C29/30 or the actual end?

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