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atrude777
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:54 pm

STL will get 8 more from me!

I am flying two round trips ORD-STL-MWA for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Yes, they are two separate tickets so I will count.

What date(s) are we seeing UA add STL-ECP for Spring Break? I can't find it!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:04 pm

You know you live in a great city when you have more service to the redneck riviera than you have to Miami, a city not only superior in its tourist offerings, but also a city with important business and cultural connections, as well as airplane connections to countries south of the US.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:15 pm

stl07 wrote:

You know you live in a great city when you have more service to the redneck riviera than you have to Miami, a city not only superior in its tourist offerings, but also a city with important business and cultural connections, as well as airplane connections to countries south of the US.


I live here and in many regards, St. Louis is a bona fide Southern City. I know where the people go, Redneck Riviera, Vegas, Lake of The Ozarks, Tennessee, Cancun etc. I prefer other types of destinations and my co-workers and friends are always asking me "where is that?"

When I say "Grand Cayman" they think "Grand Canyon?" Maine? Huh? Likewise Billings, Burlington, San Juan, Palm Springs, Curacao, Santa Barbara, Charelston (SC), the list goes on and on.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:47 am

stl07 wrote:
You know you live in a great city when you have more service to the redneck riviera than you have to Miami, a city not only superior in its tourist offerings, but also a city with important business and cultural connections, as well as airplane connections to countries south of the US.


If you factor in FLL with MIA then it is higher than the panhandle. But I get your point.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:47 am

[twoid][/twoid]
atrude777 wrote:
STL will get 8 more from me!

I am flying two round trips ORD-STL-MWA for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Yes, they are two separate tickets so I will count.

What date(s) are we seeing UA add STL-ECP for Spring Break? I can't find it!

Alex


3/21 down 3/28 back.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:29 am

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
You know you live in a great city when you have more service to the redneck riviera than you have to Miami, a city not only superior in its tourist offerings, but also a city with important business and cultural connections, as well as airplane connections to countries south of the US.


If you factor in FLL with MIA then it is higher than the panhandle. But I get your point.

The fact that it comes down to that is sad haha
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:40 am

stl07 wrote:
You know you live in a great city when you have more service to the redneck riviera than you have to Miami, a city not only superior in its tourist offerings, but also a city with important business and cultural connections, as well as airplane connections to countries south of the US.

Are there currently flights to the redneck riviera that nobody knows about? AA flies 3x daily to Miami and WN 2x daily to FLL. I see no flights to ECP or PNS until next spring when they start seasonally.
 
atrude777
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:31 pm

Jshank83 wrote:

3/21 down 3/28 back.


How did you even discover that?! Hahaha

Quick layover in STL. Smooth flight and operation on United ORD STL.

STL Concourse C will basically shut down after 1pm today. No more departure after that time frame for American. So weird to see.

Contour at C27, Sun Country at C28.

Got some photos, just have to figure how to upload them...

Piedmont A319 is stuck in STL for now...

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:00 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
You know you live in a great city when you have more service to the redneck riviera than you have to Miami, a city not only superior in its tourist offerings, but also a city with important business and cultural connections, as well as airplane connections to countries south of the US.

Are there currently flights to the redneck riviera that nobody knows about? AA flies 3x daily to Miami and WN 2x daily to FLL. I see no flights to ECP or PNS until next spring when they start seasonally.


I think stl07 was talking about spring. But yes. There are no flights to ECP or PNS right now. Only to VPS from BLV. And if we look at the entire year there are way more flight to MIA than the panhandle overall. The panhandle just ramps up for spring break and summer (which makes sense). MIA also has a much higher O&D than the panhandle. Miami averages 340 people a day, 12th highest from STL. Panhandle averages 147 a day (including BLV). So Miami is 2.5x higher than the panhandle from STL. The amount of flights to the panhandle is greatly based off WNs routing people thru here from other places.
 
klm617
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:05 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
stl07 wrote:

You know you live in a great city when you have more service to the redneck riviera than you have to Miami, a city not only superior in its tourist offerings, but also a city with important business and cultural connections, as well as airplane connections to countries south of the US.


I live here and in many regards, St. Louis is a bona fide Southern City. I know where the people go, Redneck Riviera, Vegas, Lake of The Ozarks, Tennessee, Cancun etc. I prefer other types of destinations and my co-workers and friends are always asking me "where is that?"

When I say "Grand Cayman" they think "Grand Canyon?" Maine? Huh? Likewise Billings, Burlington, San Juan, Palm Springs, Curacao, Santa Barbara, Charelston (SC), the list goes on and on.



For the most part most Americans are geographically challenged.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:14 pm

atrude777 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

3/21 down 3/28 back.


How did you even discover that?! Hahaha

Quick layover in STL. Smooth flight and operation on United ORD STL.

STL Concourse C will basically shut down after 1pm today. No more departure after that time frame for American. So weird to see.

Contour at C27, Sun Country at C28.

Got some photos, just have to figure how to upload them...

Piedmont A319 is stuck in STL for now...

Alex



The airport twitter tweeted out that UA added flights for Spring break. I just used google flights to see what day. Pretty easy to find things using that. Just put in nonstop and since WN doesn't show prices you just look for the days that have a price showing.

Sun Country has its flight to Vegas at 8 pm (last flight of the day for anyone) and MSP at 6:45
Cape and Air choice one have flights departing up thru 7.
Frontier has a 4:45.
So C will have some flights going on for a bit.

A will be dead though. Only 2 flights after 1:30. One to ATL at 230 and AC to Toronto at 6.

I was a little surprised WN has flights departing as late as 5:30 (and a 4 pm bank). Seems like other years they were shut down by 1 or 2.
 
STLflyer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:39 am

Does anyone know why WN’s international flights depart from the international gates? I was on STL-CUN today and we departed from E31. Thought maybe it was a coincidence, but I checked the history on FlightAware and it always departs from the intl gates, even though the inbound A/Cs arrive from domestic destinations. Is there some requirement that intl flights depart from intl capable gates? I don’t think so since F9’s intl flights depart from C.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:02 am

STLflyer wrote:
Does anyone know why WN’s international flights depart from the international gates? I was on STL-CUN today and we departed from E31. Thought maybe it was a coincidence, but I checked the history on FlightAware and it always departs from the intl gates, even though the inbound A/Cs arrive from domestic destinations. Is there some requirement that intl flights depart from intl capable gates? I don’t think so since F9’s intl flights depart from C.


I don’t think it has to. I don’t know if there is a reason why it does or not. Maybe since there won’t ever be any thru passengers (who stay on the plane from the last flight) they want one of the gates with the biggest waiting areas?
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:23 pm

stl07 wrote:
You know you live in a great city when you have more service to the redneck riviera than you have to Miami, a city not only superior in its tourist offerings, but also a city with important business and cultural connections, as well as airplane connections to countries south of the US.


You posted my exact thoughts. STL, like many cities, has a value-driven vacation crowd. This is why airlines like Allegiant exist.
I wasn’t even sure if PNS was accessible non-stop from DCA and it turns out AA runs 2 nonstops a day in the spring. By comparison there are nearly 20 daily nonstop flights to FLL/MIA.
There are definitely regional vacation destinations. I’ve seen Branson commercials on the east coast and had people ask me “what is that?”

I think WN would actually do well on a flight to SJU from STL. It doesn’t require a passport, good resorts at lower prices than some other parts of the Caribbean, cruise port.
I also think a couple of non-daily flights to NAS would be popular.
 
phllax
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:07 pm

atrude777 wrote:

STL Concourse C will basically shut down after 1pm today. No more departure after that time frame for American. So weird to see.

Alex


AA doesn’t operate past noon- 1pm on Thanksgiving day. Red-eyes are the exception.
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:49 pm

WN had 116 departures today and I would have thought more being the busiest travel day of the holiday. Not up to spring and summer levels. First flight this morning started at 5:10am to HOU and final flight is 10:55pm to OMA
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:56 pm

On the airport commission agenda tomorrow.

I am GUESSING it is new gate or expanded baggage claim related. But it also could be something not that important or something we haven't seen coming.

First Amendment to Memorandum of Agreement with Southwest Airlines

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... 2-4-19.pdf
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:59 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
WN had 116 departures today and I would have thought more being the busiest travel day of the holiday. Not up to spring and summer levels. First flight this morning started at 5:10am to HOU and final flight is 10:55pm to OMA


On Sunday - Pre MAX issues WN had 127 departures, which was in June '19. After that in the summer they went to 120. November '19 has 117. So there really isn't much of a shift. There are a ton of people who return on Saturday or Monday because those Sunday flights on Thanksgiving weekend are pretty expensive. We saved $210 for the three of us coming (One free on comapanion pass) home Monday.
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:02 pm

^Mom was going to come back from London Sunday but couldn't get a ticket at all, so she pushed it back until Monday. (I tried to talk her into waiting until Tuesday, but . . . there's no winning with your Mother.)
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN VN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA DTW LHR
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 763 772 773 777 A320 330 350 E175 C700
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:13 pm

So obviously we aren't the frontrunner for Condor considering today's announcement unlike what was rumored by the press and people in contact with the airport. What the heck are they (STL officials) doing in regards to Euro service?
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:42 pm

stl07 wrote:
So obviously we aren't the frontrunner for Condor considering today's announcement unlike what was rumored by the press and people in contact with the airport. What the heck are they (STL officials) doing in regards to Euro service?


I don’t remember Condor being linked to STL at all in the press. Not a front runner for sure.

I think they would be a good fit but I don’t know anyone at the airport that has said much about them. I feel like they push the LH option more than Condor.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:49 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
So obviously we aren't the frontrunner for Condor considering today's announcement unlike what was rumored by the press and people in contact with the airport. What the heck are they (STL officials) doing in regards to Euro service?


I don’t remember Condor being linked to STL at all in the press. Not a front runner for sure.

I think they would be a good fit but I don’t know anyone at the airport that has said much about them. I feel like they push the LH option more than Condor.

I remember an article, I think it was on news 4 but I could be wrong. I don't think the pres said front runner though, that was just me getting irritated from all the talk on boards saying we are close to getting a flight on them haha.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:01 am

Jshank83 wrote:
On the airport commission agenda tomorrow.

I am GUESSING it is new gate or expanded baggage claim related. But it also could be something not that important or something we haven't seen coming.

First Amendment to Memorandum of Agreement with Southwest Airlines

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... 2-4-19.pdf


Good find. I think your guess of gates or baggage claim expansion sound accurate. I’d put more faith in something related to the expanded baggage claim. I think a gate announcement will come after the MAX fleet is back in the air. I could be wrong, but just a guess.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:54 am

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
On the airport commission agenda tomorrow.

I am GUESSING it is new gate or expanded baggage claim related. But it also could be something not that important or something we haven't seen coming.

First Amendment to Memorandum of Agreement with Southwest Airlines

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... 2-4-19.pdf


Good find. I think your guess of gates or baggage claim expansion sound accurate. I’d put more faith in something related to the expanded baggage claim. I think a gate announcement will come after the MAX fleet is back in the air. I could be wrong, but just a guess.


I also would lean towards the baggage also partly because I know that will take a MOA change. Not sure if the gates do. I do think the gates probably need to be ready by March (or summer at the lastest) so they would need to get the project going soon. But again I don't know if that triggers a MOA change.

stl07 wrote:
I remember an article, I think it was on news 4 but I could be wrong. I don't think the pres said front runner though, that was just me getting irritated from all the talk on boards saying we are close to getting a flight on them haha.


I think most people thought when the airport mentioned Frankfurt it was obvious they meant Condor since they usually come before LH, so that is why it got a lot of buzz. Like I said I think it makes sense. But the airport has stuck to the LH talk so maybe Condor really isn't even much of an option. I had heard they stuck to their guns on BA, even when other London options came up (But that I have no clue if it is true or not), so maybe the same is happening with LH if they think they really have a shot. Not that BA worked out for them. I would love to know more background on what is going on behind the scenes with some of the airlines. I think the A321LR and A321XLR is going to open up some options but with the delays they are having, who knows when that will be.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:46 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
On the airport commission agenda tomorrow.

I am GUESSING it is new gate or expanded baggage claim related. But it also could be something not that important or something we haven't seen coming.

First Amendment to Memorandum of Agreement with Southwest Airlines

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... 2-4-19.pdf


Good find. I think your guess of gates or baggage claim expansion sound accurate. I’d put more faith in something related to the expanded baggage claim. I think a gate announcement will come after the MAX fleet is back in the air. I could be wrong, but just a guess.


I also would lean towards the baggage also partly because I know that will take a MOA change. Not sure if the gates do. I do think the gates probably need to be ready by March (or summer at the lastest) so they would need to get the project going soon. But again I don't know if that triggers a MOA change.

stl07 wrote:
I remember an article, I think it was on news 4 but I could be wrong. I don't think the pres said front runner though, that was just me getting irritated from all the talk on boards saying we are close to getting a flight on them haha.


I think most people thought when the airport mentioned Frankfurt it was obvious they meant Condor since they usually come before LH, so that is why it got a lot of buzz. Like I said I think it makes sense. But the airport has stuck to the LH talk so maybe Condor really isn't even much of an option. I had heard they stuck to their guns on BA, even when other London options came up (But that I have no clue if it is true or not), so maybe the same is happening with LH if they think they really have a shot. Not that BA worked out for them. I would love to know more background on what is going on behind the scenes with some of the airlines. I think the A321LR and A321XLR is going to open up some options but with the delays they are having, who knows when that will be.



The only chatter spoke of LH and BA from searching. I think the Condor chat was just within this group. https://www.kmov.com/news/direct-flights-from-st-louis-to-europe-may-be-possible/article_da515816-a95d-59ed-bd5d-10e9bff9ca4b.html.
 
jrkstl
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:43 pm

As I recall, the Condor discussion started after they had an emergency landing at STL. Maybe?
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:39 pm

jrkstl wrote:
As I recall, the Condor discussion started after they had an emergency landing at STL. Maybe?


I said impound the plane until they agree to scheduled flights.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:32 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
On the airport commission agenda tomorrow.

I am GUESSING it is new gate or expanded baggage claim related. But it also could be something not that important or something we haven't seen coming.

First Amendment to Memorandum of Agreement with Southwest Airlines

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... 2-4-19.pdf


Good find. I think your guess of gates or baggage claim expansion sound accurate. I’d put more faith in something related to the expanded baggage claim. I think a gate announcement will come after the MAX fleet is back in the air. I could be wrong, but just a guess.


Ended up being Southwests privatization study related. Nothing exciting.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:28 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
On the airport commission agenda tomorrow.

I am GUESSING it is new gate or expanded baggage claim related. But it also could be something not that important or something we haven't seen coming.

First Amendment to Memorandum of Agreement with Southwest Airlines

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... 2-4-19.pdf


Good find. I think your guess of gates or baggage claim expansion sound accurate. I’d put more faith in something related to the expanded baggage claim. I think a gate announcement will come after the MAX fleet is back in the air. I could be wrong, but just a guess.


Ended up being Southwests privatization study related. Nothing exciting.


Super exciting. (sarcasm)

As for the European service, does the airport have any incentive package right now to offer a new airline for service across the Atlantic?

In general, it seems like things have been very quiet from the airport this year.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:13 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:

Good find. I think your guess of gates or baggage claim expansion sound accurate. I’d put more faith in something related to the expanded baggage claim. I think a gate announcement will come after the MAX fleet is back in the air. I could be wrong, but just a guess.


Ended up being Southwests privatization study related. Nothing exciting.


Super exciting. (sarcasm)

As for the European service, does the airport have any incentive package right now to offer a new airline for service across the Atlantic?

In general, it seems like things have been very quiet from the airport this year.



Not that I am aware. There was about $5M that the PA cancelled in July and once wow went belly up, they didn't give others a shot. pulling the money as soon as they could. https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2019/07/19/port-authority-cuts-program-that-would-given-5m.html
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Southwest becomes official airline of the Blues. Nice to see Southwest start spending some advertising money around town. Hopefully they get involved with the Cardinals and MLS team also.

https://www.nhl.com/blues/news/southwes ... -312169660
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:17 pm

TWA302 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

Ended up being Southwests privatization study related. Nothing exciting.


Super exciting. (sarcasm)

As for the European service, does the airport have any incentive package right now to offer a new airline for service across the Atlantic?

In general, it seems like things have been very quiet from the airport this year.



Not that I am aware. There was about $5M that the PA cancelled in July and once wow went belly up, they didn't give others a shot. pulling the money as soon as they could. https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2019/07/19/port-authority-cuts-program-that-would-given-5m.html


This is the line that always drives me crazy "Coleman said airlines were to respond to the incentive by August or September, and that the board wanted to act before that could occur." Basically pulled the rug out from under them. But I also understand after Sweeney got arrested they wanted to basically start back from scratch on everything.

Anyway, there is money from other sources for incentives, I just don't know how much.

Southwest having all their issues and actually getting rid of airframes isn't helping at the moment. It is somewhat surprising they have been able to keep the growth up.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:51 pm

Jshank83 wrote:

Southwest having all their issues and actually getting rid of airframes isn't helping at the moment. It is somewhat surprising they have been able to keep the growth up.


I would say this is a good sign for WN's investment in the market. Just imagine what will happen when their fleet is back to growing.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:26 pm

Jshank83 wrote:

I said impound the plane until they agree to scheduled flights.


That may be our best hope. :wink2:
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:05 am

January 2020 Frequency Numbers

Flights - YoY change by week

WN 729 +13 (+1.8%)
AA 243 FLAT
UA 201 +24 (+13.6)
DL 184 -9 (4.6%)
F9 29 -6 (-17%)
AC 21 +1 (+5%)
G4 13 +1 (+8.3%)
AS 6 -7 (-54%)
SY 4 FLAT

STL Total 1600 +17 (1%)


Seats - YoY Seat Change (Based on Mondays only)
UA 1753 +8.54%
DL 3419 +7.85%
AA 4202 +4.68%

Notes
UA back to all RJs for winter.
DL flights are down but are mostly mainline now besides CVG/LGA so seats are up.
MAX reductions reduced WN by 31 flights over the original schedule. Would have been 760 (+6.1%)

Full Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:32 pm

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
So obviously we aren't the frontrunner for Condor considering today's announcement unlike what was rumored by the press and people in contact with the airport. What the heck are they (STL officials) doing in regards to Euro service?


I don’t remember Condor being linked to STL at all in the press. Not a front runner for sure.

I think they would be a good fit but I don’t know anyone at the airport that has said much about them. I feel like they push the LH option more than Condor.

I remember an article, I think it was on news 4 but I could be wrong. I don't think the pres said front runner though, that was just me getting irritated from all the talk on boards saying we are close to getting a flight on them haha.


Yeah, I remember that discussion. Condor seems to prefer destinations that have tourism appeal, which isn't STL. I don't think we were ever in contention for a Condor flight.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:36 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

I don’t remember Condor being linked to STL at all in the press. Not a front runner for sure.

I think they would be a good fit but I don’t know anyone at the airport that has said much about them. I feel like they push the LH option more than Condor.

I remember an article, I think it was on news 4 but I could be wrong. I don't think the pres said front runner though, that was just me getting irritated from all the talk on boards saying we are close to getting a flight on them haha.


Yeah, I remember that discussion. Condor seems to prefer destinations that have tourism appeal, which isn't STL. I don't think we were ever in contention for a Condor flight.


While I tend to agree with you, saying that STL doesn't have tourism appeal isn't 100% accurate. DE has service to PIT which I would say is very similar to STL in regards to 'tourism'. Fight me :-)
 
kipfilet
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:34 pm

Right, I was going to use PIT as a counterexample to the claim that DE only flies to places with tourism appeal.
But it is true that STL (and PIT) have basically zero tourist appeal from the point of view of German/European tourists. My guess is that most Germans won't know a single thing about St. Louis.
 
pmanni1
Posts: 242
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:13 pm

Odd to see that WN's Sat morning flight to OKC has been taken out of the late morning connecting bank and is now an O&D flight leaving at 6:20am or 7:00am depending on which Sat. I can't believe this flight would have enough O&D to justify it. Seems so random.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:31 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Odd to see that WN's Sat morning flight to OKC has been taken out of the late morning connecting bank and is now an O&D flight leaving at 6:20am or 7:00am depending on which Sat. I can't believe this flight would have enough O&D to justify it. Seems so random.


Agree, doesn't make much sense to me. My wife needs to do a flight run and we were deciding between OKC and TUL and when I saw OKC was 6 am I was pretty shocked. It also just turns around and comes back to STL. Seems like a waste of a flight.
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:01 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Odd to see that WN's Sat morning flight to OKC has been taken out of the late morning connecting bank and is now an O&D flight leaving at 6:20am or 7:00am depending on which Sat. I can't believe this flight would have enough O&D to justify it. Seems so random.


Agree, doesn't make much sense to me. My wife needs to do a flight run and we were deciding between OKC and TUL and when I saw OKC was 6 am I was pretty shocked. It also just turns around and comes back to STL. Seems like a waste of a flight.


Even more odd that it turns around and goes right back to STL. Sounds like a screw up on WN's part that they don't have enough aircraft overnighted at OKC to take care of the morning flights.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:21 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Odd to see that WN's Sat morning flight to OKC has been taken out of the late morning connecting bank and is now an O&D flight leaving at 6:20am or 7:00am depending on which Sat. I can't believe this flight would have enough O&D to justify it. Seems so random.


Agree, doesn't make much sense to me. My wife needs to do a flight run and we were deciding between OKC and TUL and when I saw OKC was 6 am I was pretty shocked. It also just turns around and comes back to STL. Seems like a waste of a flight.


Even more odd that it turns around and goes right back to STL. Sounds like a screw up on WN's part that they don't have enough aircraft overnighted at OKC to take care of the morning flights.


Wonder since OKC lost DAL flights if that flight was to help move some of that traffic? Shot in the dark.
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:16 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Wonder since OKC lost DAL flights if that flight was to help move some of that traffic? Shot in the dark.


WN is dropping DAL-OKC nonstop service due to decreasing O&D traffic on DAL-OKC nonstop flights and over 60% of the passengers on WN DAL-OKC nonstop flights connecting to destinations outside of Texas and New Mexico.

Over 94% of the passengers on WN's DAL-OKC nonstop flights were connecting through DAL to other destinations in Q2 2019, and the PDEW on DAL-OKC was only 38 passengers per day in Q2 2019.
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:56 pm

The question is - when the OKC flight arrives to STL, where is it off to next?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:32 pm

stlgph wrote:
The question is - when the OKC flight arrives to STL, where is it off to next?


Here is the routing of the current weekday WN OKC-STL nonstop flights:

WN 1988 (OKC-STL-MDW)
=====================
OKC-STL 5:05 AM - 6:53 AM
STL-MDW 7:20 AM - 8:35 AM

WN 2429 (GSP-ATL-MCI-AUS-DEN-OKC-STL)
====================================
GSP-ATL 6:25 AM - 7:30 AM
ATL-MCI 8:25 AM - 9:50 AM
MCI-AUS 10:25 AM - 12:20 PM
AUS-DEN 12:55 PM - 2:05 PM
DEN-OKC 2:45 PM - 5:05 PM
OKC-STL 5:40 PM - 7:00 PM (final stop)

WN 2154 (LGA-STL-OKC-LAS-SMF-ONT-PHX-SAT)
========================================
LGA-STL 7:30 AM - 9:15 AM
STL-OKC 10:15 AM - 11:50 AM
OKC-LAS 12:25 PM - 1:10 PM
LAS-SMF 1:50 PM - 3:30 PM
SMF-ONT 4:05 PM - 5:25 PM
ONT-PHX 6:00 PM - 8:20 PM
PHX-SAT 9:05 PM - 12:05 AM

WN 2564 (PHL-STL-OKC)
=========================
PHL-STL 7:35 PM - 9:10 PM
STL-OKC 9:55 PM - 11:20 PM (final stop)
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:50 pm

Southwest summer schedule release day tomorrow. Will be interesting to see how big they go here and if they add anything new. Hopefully the MAX will be going by then.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:12 pm

Soo, based on some interesting news today by AA in AUS, I'm curious to see if AA will wake up here as well and get back in those crucial markets they left in 2008-2016 to help keep their business traveler base which keeps shrinking. Really the only thing hilding AA together for business travelers were those routes, along with the AS routes, and the crappy competitor service. Now that all 3 of those things are gone (even UA understood and inaugurated some of their 550 routes here), and a competitor lounge opened in terminal 2, they no longer have a hold over the business travelers. They ran into a similar problem in AUS, so I'm curious to see what will happen if anything over here. Honestly, they may just give out status more easily.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:27 pm

A few things-
It'll be interesting to see if Southwest announces a 737MAX return date or if they just....do it.

United coming through with the 550 shouldn't be too surprising since the owner sits down the street.

When it comes to the Big3, I think the most creative we'll see is Delta squeezing in BOS service at some point in 2020.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:40 pm

AA’s response in AUS is 1) response to a hot market and 2) them waking up to the fact DL is really pushing hard in the market and making big gains this year on market share. I don’t think this will have any bearing on STL. I think AA could definitely add back some routes, but I think they’ve ceded traffic to WN.

I still think DL has some adds they can make, namely a morning flight to JFK connecting to INTL, a couple of flights to BOS and a flight to LAX connecting to their TPAC bank. A SkyClub would be nice, but there’s not really any room in A.

If WN is confident in the MAX flying next summer the new schedule should have some big adds, but if the MAX isn’t on the schedule, I’d say modest growth.
Big growth will probably spawn the next set of D gates coming online.
 
jplatts
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:08 am

stl07 wrote:
Soo, based on some interesting news today by AA in AUS, I'm curious to see if AA will wake up here as well and get back in those crucial markets they left in 2008-2016 to help keep their business traveler base which keeps shrinking. Really the only thing hilding AA together for business travelers were those routes, along with the AS routes, and the crappy competitor service. Now that all 3 of those things are gone (even UA understood and inaugurated some of their 550 routes here), and a competitor lounge opened in terminal 2, they no longer have a hold over the business travelers. They ran into a similar problem in AUS, so I'm curious to see what will happen if anything over here. Honestly, they may just give out status more easily.


CLT is the only AA hub market that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from STL as both AA and WN already serve LAX, LGA, PHL, PHX, and DCA nonstop from STL and as both AA and WN already serve the ORD/MDW, DFW/DAL, and MIA/FLL markets nonstop from STL.

There are still a few factors that continue to steer some STL-based business travelers to AA including (a) STL-CLT nonstop service and (b) connections to domestic and international destinations not served by WN.

AA STL-DCA nonstop service went from (a) a hub-to-spoke route with an AA hub on the STL end to (b) a point-to-point route with neither STL or DCA being an AA hub to (c) a hub-to-spoke route with an AA hub on the DCA end subsequent to the AA-US merger.

AA will likely lose some more business travelers in the STL market if WN adds STL-CLT nonstop service since (a) some AA FF's in the STL market would have less need to stick with AA if WN adds STL-CLT nonstop service and (b) some WN FF's in the STL market who currently travel to CLT from STL would choose WN STL-CLT nonstops over AA or connecting options if WN adds STL-CLT nonstop service.

dcaproducer wrote:
I think AA could definitely add back some routes, but I think they’ve ceded traffic to WN.


I agree that AA ceded traffic to WN, not only due to the AA dehubbing but also due to (a) WN adding STL-DAL nonstop service 14 years ago, (b) WN adding STL-LGA and STL-DCA nonstop service, and (c) WN adding nonstop service out of STL to additional non-AA hub destinations during the last 10 years.

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