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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:33 pm

So right as Lufthansa is on an announcement spree for North America and Rhonda claimed STL was on the list and things were finally looking somewhat good, the county government swooped in to save the day (Like always, along with their STL city government counterparts) and cancelled the incentives to get back at strenger since he was a proponent of them, meaning no flights for Lambert. Woohoo--go STL government
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:39 pm

Airport made it official. Prime Air flights start today.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2UZwmpDhZ4 ... dzswze5gzt
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:49 pm

International load factor for March

Volaris Huatulco 86%
Volaris Cabo 82%
Southwest Cancun 86%
Southwest Punta Cana 90%
Southwest Montego Bay 93%
Frontier Cancun 88%
Frontier Punta Cana 83%
Air Canada 63%
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:02 am

June Load Factors

Above 95%
F9-MCO
WN-SFO/SAN/SMF
G4-LAS

Above 90%
AS-SAN
AA-PHL/LAX/MIA/PHX/DCA
DL-ATL/DTW/SLC
F9-LAS/DEN
WN-DCA/TPA/SEA/SJC/SAT/PDX/PHX/MCO/OMA/OAK/LGA/BNA/LAX/LAS/BDL/RSW/DEN/AUS
UA-DEN/IAH/EWR/SFO/IAD
G4-FLL/SFB/PGD/PIE

Full spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 143
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:07 pm

stl07 wrote:
So right as Lufthansa is on an announcement spree for North America and Rhonda claimed STL was on the list and things were finally looking somewhat good, the county government swooped in to save the day (Like always, along with their STL city government counterparts) and cancelled the incentives to get back at strenger since he was a proponent of them, meaning no flights for Lambert. Woohoo--go STL government


I don't think STL missed out on anything, tbh. LH isn't BA - there are more attractive dots in the US that they still need to connect.
 
atrude777
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:09 pm

This isn't entirely STL Related but since CGI was involved...

enilria wrote:

UA CGI-ORD DEC 0.9>1.6[0.8] FEB 1.3>1.7[0.9] MAR 0.9>1.7[0.8] APR 0.9>1.7[0.9] MAY 0.8>1.7[0.9] JUN 0.9>1.7[0.8]
UA CGI-PAH DEC 1.9>0.2[0] JAN 0.3>0[1.5] FEB 1.1>0[1.9] MAR 1.9>0[1.8] APR 1.9>0[1.9] MAY 1.8>0[1.9] JUN 1.9>0[1.8]


This is an update now to the schedule...

Effective December 4th, CGI-PAH will cease to exist, and CGI-ORD will increase to 2 daily non stop. No more CGI-PAH through flights.

PAH-ORD will remain the same at 2 daily, just lose the 3rd flight which was a flight to CGI anyway.


In addition, SkyWest was the only airline to rebid for PAH EAS, and in addition, they extended the contract to 3 years instead of the usual 2 Years. I will be curious if SkyWest saw a demand for a third flight, and thus by extending the contract is using it to try and gain more travelers to justify a third non stop flight to Chicago.

I really thought Cape Air would bid for PAH like they did for UIN and the other cities, and offer STL and BNA with the new planes. PAH folks are begging for flights to Nashville due to the horrendous drive on 24 to Nashville.

Assuming SkyWest is re-selected, they will begin the new 3 year contract February 1st, 2020, with 2 flights a day, PAH-ORD.

DOT still has not published their selections for MWA and CGI, which is shocking..it's been over a month now.

I am assuming with UA/OO changing their schedule for CGI it's telling that they intend to be re-selected by the DOT for CGI.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:50 pm

Looks like the AC flights are scheduled to switch to Jazz air on December 1st. Same plane type.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:22 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Looks like the AC flights are scheduled to switch to Jazz air on December 1st. Same plane type.


Part of me was hoping that the switch away from Air Georgian would result in Sky Regional E175s.
Delta Gold Medallion
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:29 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Looks like the AC flights are scheduled to switch to Jazz air on December 1st. Same plane type.


Wow, so from the Georgian crap to the Jazz crap. Those old CRJ-200s are a complete train wreck. Some of them are nearly 1/4 of a century old. Nobody give me the fleet age story either. These CRJs are WORN OUT from an interior aspect. Flew on a eight different ones this summer and it was horrible. They must be making good bank on these flights. I just don't get it.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:32 am

TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Looks like the AC flights are scheduled to switch to Jazz air on December 1st. Same plane type.


Wow, so from the Georgian crap to the Jazz crap. Those old CRJ-200s are a complete train wreck. Some of them are nearly 1/4 of a century old. Nobody give me the fleet age story either. These CRJs are WORN OUT from an interior aspect. Flew on a eight different ones this summer and it was horrible. They must be making good bank on these flights. I just don't get it.


Jazz is renovating the interiors after they take control of the planes
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:58 am

Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Looks like the AC flights are scheduled to switch to Jazz air on December 1st. Same plane type.


Wow, so from the Georgian crap to the Jazz crap. Those old CRJ-200s are a complete train wreck. Some of them are nearly 1/4 of a century old. Nobody give me the fleet age story either. These CRJs are WORN OUT from an interior aspect. Flew on a eight different ones this summer and it was horrible. They must be making good bank on these flights. I just don't get it.


Jazz is renovating the interiors after they take control of the planes


Not soon enough though. These were work trips and with Flex fares r/t was nearly $1k. I really hope they make the improvements. Service was great, though!
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:33 am

TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:

Wow, so from the Georgian crap to the Jazz crap. Those old CRJ-200s are a complete train wreck. Some of them are nearly 1/4 of a century old. Nobody give me the fleet age story either. These CRJs are WORN OUT from an interior aspect. Flew on a eight different ones this summer and it was horrible. They must be making good bank on these flights. I just don't get it.


Jazz is renovating the interiors after they take control of the planes


Not soon enough though. These were work trips and with Flex fares r/t was nearly $1k. I really hope they make the improvements. Service was great, though!


I flew a couple years ago and the light in the bathroom didn’t work. People had to use a flashlight. Flying again in 2 weeks. Hopefully after this time they will be update. Or even on a bigger plane at some point
 
bretonrlong
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:31 pm

At what point does this route switch to Air Canada mainline (should say at least for a frequency)? Up to 4x day CRJ 200 now. Is this purely about greater frequency?
 
gnakra80
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:38 pm

bretonrlong wrote:
At what point does this route switch to Air Canada mainline (should say at least for a frequency)? Up to 4x day CRJ 200 now. Is this purely about greater frequency?


Same reason there are 6 daily flights to Detroit on Delta, this is all to serve connecting, and likely European bound travelers.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:55 am

bretonrlong wrote:
At what point does this route switch to Air Canada mainline (should say at least for a frequency)? Up to 4x day CRJ 200 now. Is this purely about greater frequency?


I doubt it ever switches to mainline anytime soon. Maybe CRJ900 or E175 but that would be about it.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:08 am

TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:

Wow, so from the Georgian crap to the Jazz crap. Those old CRJ-200s are a complete train wreck. Some of them are nearly 1/4 of a century old. Nobody give me the fleet age story either. These CRJs are WORN OUT from an interior aspect. Flew on a eight different ones this summer and it was horrible. They must be making good bank on these flights. I just don't get it.


Jazz is renovating the interiors after they take control of the planes


Not soon enough though. These were work trips and with Flex fares r/t was nearly $1k. I really hope they make the improvements. Service was great, though!


Fares on AC to Toronto are always sky high. AC was asking more for basic than DL was asking for first class rt to Salt Lake on the same weekend. If it were a four-hour A320 flight to Vancouver then maybe, but forking over exorbitant amounts for a 2-hour hop in the Devil's Chariot? Leisure travelers be damned.
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Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:12 am

October Frequency Spreadsheet

A few notes:

DL goes all mainline on ATL/DTW/MSP/SLC. Upgrades the CVG RJ200 frequency to a 900. Starts a mainline to LGA on Mondays only.
Southwest has a fair amount of different frequencies on inbound and outbound flights to stations. What I list is only outbound.

Flights YOY change (% YOY change)

WN 794 +22 (+2.8%)
AA 273 +5 (+1.9)
DL 194 -2 (-0.01%)
UA 188 Flat
F9 30 -1 (-3.2%)
AC 28 +9 (+47%)
AS 20 Flat
G4 14 -2 (-12.5%)
SY 4 +2 (+100%)

Total STL 1696 +11 (+0.01%)

Legacy seat count YOY change

DL +3.87
AA +3.54
UA -5.63%

Overall seat count on all flights in October is up 3.8% (unless something changed in the last month)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:07 pm

Southwest has extended their schedule for March

Montego Bay and Punta Cana each get an extra day over last year. Now are Saturday and Sunday.
Pensacola starts earlier this year.
Charleston and West Palm Beach return 1x weekly.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:03 am

YoY March frequency update for WN

Mon-fri 123 +5
Sat 105 +4
Sun 123 +3

Total per week 843 +32 (+3.9%)

Monday-friday changes
+1 MDW/CLE/DEN/PHL/BNA/RDU/SLC
-2 EWR

Saturday
+1 DEN/MCO/ECP/PNS/PHX/MKE/TPA
-1 MDW/MSP/EWR

Sunday
+2 DAL
+1 FLL/MBJ/PUJ/MSY/MCO/SLC
-1 DTW/MKE/SAN
-2 EWR
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:02 pm

I know much of the WN growth is dependent on them getting their Max fleet back in the air, but has there been any rumblings on additional D-gates coming back online in the near future?

Also, I've seen the load factors posted, but any word on how Sun Country is doing an if they're happy with their STL service? You'd think they'd eventually go daily on some routes if they can fill some planes.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:20 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
I know much of the WN growth is dependent on them getting their Max fleet back in the air, but has there been any rumblings on additional D-gates coming back online in the near future?

Also, I've seen the load factors posted, but any word on how Sun Country is doing an if they're happy with their STL service? You'd think they'd eventually go daily on some routes if they can fill some planes.


They brought TPA and RSW back so that must be a good sign. First month of PDX was good. I could see them adding days to the next summer. MSP isn’t good, but that doesn’t surprise me.

More D gates are coming for Southwest. They basically have no growth until the MAX is back.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:00 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Airport made it official. Prime Air flights start today.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2UZwmpDhZ4 ... dzswze5gzt


Looks like this is the daily GB flight. BWI-STL
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ABX3941/history/20190928/2345Z/KBWI/KSTL

And the outbound daily STL-ONT
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ABX3943

Just had not looked up where these flights came and went to. Anyone have ANY idea as to why this routing?
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:35 am

Looks like DL is now using an A321 on morning flights to MSP. Being used on the 9:15am flight in Oct and 6:30am flight in Nov. I don't think they've ever used these on this route before.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:54 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like DL is now using an A321 on morning flights to MSP. Being used on the 9:15am flight in Oct and 6:30am flight in Nov. I don't think they've ever used these on this route before.

DL has some nice upgrades this month. Lots more mainline. LGA has one on Monday. I can’t remember the last time they did either.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:27 pm

RFQ time on the privatization issue.

The city’s deadline to receive responses to the RFQ is Nov. 1.

Linda Martinez, the mayor’s designee, also announced Friday that the working group had reached a tentative agreement with airlines representing over 80% of the airport's traffic and 85% of the airport’s weighted cargo. 


https://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/st ... rt-airport
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:17 pm

I saw an article that BLV is getting some FAA grant funds for the expansion of the terminal. I was curious how the passenger numbers were looking and apparently they set BLV records in June, July and August. Also, any update on possible expansion? It doesn't sound like the FAA gave them nearly enough money for this project. I still find this airport to be an odd experiment.

Rough numbers from the news articles.
June - 43,000
July - 46,000
August - 45,000

Sources:
https://chicagomorningstar.com/illinois ... nistration
https://www.bnd.com/news/politics-gover ... 91982.html
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... a7dd335de0
 
kipfilet
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:42 pm

Aircraft fire at St Louis Downtown airport: https://twitter.com/unaccompflyer/statu ... 8759350272
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:57 pm

 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:57 pm

TWA302 wrote:



This was just an emergency exercise. Saw it posted on a facebook page (can't figure out how to URL share the post but here is his page https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008359140884
Image
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:13 am

Spent Saturday night into Sunday morning at the Marriott Renaissance, high floor airport view. Been at least 35 years since I've spotted at STL. Impressions:

More WN aircraft in the older version of the red-yellow-blue than I expected.

Although there was no wind, the flow was east-to-west. Looked like 12R-30L was being worked on. Two WNs in a row left the gates and headed to 29.

McDonnell Douglas had what looked to be a F-15 that got in line behind all those WN 73s, then used 30% of the runway and did a pretty near-vertical takeoff and a nice banking turn. I remember when F-4s would take off 2x2 w/ afterburners. Followed by ANG F-100s doing the same.
 
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T18
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:44 am

BN727227Ultra wrote:
McDonnell Douglas had what looked to be a F-15 that got in line behind all those WN 73s, then used 30% of the runway and did a pretty near-vertical takeoff and a nice banking turn. I remember when F-4s would take off 2x2 w/ afterburners. Followed by ANG F-100s doing the same.


How I wish it was still MD and not Boeing.
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.” ― Steve McQueen (Le Mans) 1971
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:54 am

T18 wrote:
BN727227Ultra wrote:
McDonnell Douglas had what looked to be a F-15 that got in line behind all those WN 73s, then used 30% of the runway and did a pretty near-vertical takeoff and a nice banking turn. I remember when F-4s would take off 2x2 w/ afterburners. Followed by ANG F-100s doing the same.


How I wish it was still MD and not Boeing.


Heh--when my dad worked there it was McDonnell Aircraft! And the train track paralleling Banshee was the Wabash...
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:12 am

dcaproducer wrote:
I saw an article that BLV is getting some FAA grant funds for the expansion of the terminal. I was curious how the passenger numbers were looking and apparently they set BLV records in June, July and August. Also, any update on possible expansion? It doesn't sound like the FAA gave them nearly enough money for this project. I still find this airport to be an odd experiment.

Rough numbers from the news articles.
June - 43,000
July - 46,000
August - 45,000

Sources:
https://chicagomorningstar.com/illinois ... nistration
https://www.bnd.com/news/politics-gover ... 91982.html
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... a7dd335de0


There are floor plans online somewhere of what they want to expand. Includes customs capabilities.

That all said they are going to be down flights (and I think passengers) this year. They keep saying they are going to be up 10% or something but I don’t know how based on the flights they are having. Most of the non summer months are down. The summer months were up something like 1 flight a week.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:09 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
I saw an article that BLV is getting some FAA grant funds for the expansion of the terminal. I was curious how the passenger numbers were looking and apparently they set BLV records in June, July and August. Also, any update on possible expansion? It doesn't sound like the FAA gave them nearly enough money for this project. I still find this airport to be an odd experiment.

Rough numbers from the news articles.
June - 43,000
July - 46,000
August - 45,000

Sources:
https://chicagomorningstar.com/illinois ... nistration
https://www.bnd.com/news/politics-gover ... 91982.html
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... a7dd335de0


There are floor plans online somewhere of what they want to expand. Includes customs capabilities.

That all said they are going to be down flights (and I think passengers) this year. They keep saying they are going to be up 10% or something but I don’t know how based on the flights they are having. Most of the non summer months are down. The summer months were up something like 1 flight a week.


The airport is finally seeing relatively consistent numbers. I'm not sure expanding is the best use of money right now. I know they've said they have issues on busy days, but spending $30-40million to expand a terminal that has lost money for 15 years doesn't make too much sense. Now if NK wanted to add service, that would be interesting, but I see them going to STL, not BLV.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:42 pm

Intl Load Factor for April

Volaris HUX 77%
Volaris Cabo 58%
Volaris Puerto Vallarta 56% (only 1 flight)
Southwest Cancun 75%
Southwest Punta Cana 24% out 93% in (1 flight each)
Southwest Montego 82%
Frontier Punta Cana 63%
Frontier Cancun 72%
Air Canada Toronto 70%
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:54 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Intl Load Factor for April

Volaris HUX 77%
Volaris Cabo 58%
Volaris Puerto Vallarta 56% (only 1 flight)
Southwest Cancun 75%
Southwest Punta Cana 24% out 93% in (1 flight each)
Southwest Montego 82%
Frontier Punta Cana 63%
Frontier Cancun 72%
Air Canada Toronto 70%


24% out?! I knew PUJ was suffering, but not that much!
Delta Gold Medallion
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 143
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:26 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
I saw an article that BLV is getting some FAA grant funds for the expansion of the terminal. I was curious how the passenger numbers were looking and apparently they set BLV records in June, July and August. Also, any update on possible expansion? It doesn't sound like the FAA gave them nearly enough money for this project. I still find this airport to be an odd experiment.

Rough numbers from the news articles.
June - 43,000
July - 46,000
August - 45,000

Sources:
https://chicagomorningstar.com/illinois ... nistration
https://www.bnd.com/news/politics-gover ... 91982.html
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... a7dd335de0


There are floor plans online somewhere of what they want to expand. Includes customs capabilities.

That all said they are going to be down flights (and I think passengers) this year. They keep saying they are going to be up 10% or something but I don’t know how based on the flights they are having. Most of the non summer months are down. The summer months were up something like 1 flight a week.


The airport is finally seeing relatively consistent numbers. I'm not sure expanding is the best use of money right now. I know they've said they have issues on busy days, but spending $30-40million to expand a terminal that has lost money for 15 years doesn't make too much sense. Now if NK wanted to add service, that would be interesting, but I see them going to STL, not BLV.


I'm seeing 2-3 Allegiant flights/day for the past few days. You can't tell me they can't handle that with the two gates they already have.

Predicating expansion on the whims of one airline is incredibly risky, and they're not the only small G4 station that has this dilemma.
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:06 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
I'm seeing 2-3 Allegiant flights/day for the past few days. You can't tell me they can't handle that with the two gates they already have.

Predicating expansion on the whims of one airline is incredibly risky, and they're not the only small G4 station that has this dilemma.


DL adding service out of BLV is a possibility if G4 pulls out of BLV as DL already serves other secondary airports such as BUR, MDW, DAL, HOU, LGB, MHT, SWF, PHF, OAK, ONT, SNA, SJC, HPN, and ORH.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:38 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Intl Load Factor for April

Volaris HUX 77%
Volaris Cabo 58%
Volaris Puerto Vallarta 56% (only 1 flight)
Southwest Cancun 75%
Southwest Punta Cana 24% out 93% in (1 flight each)
Southwest Montego 82%
Frontier Punta Cana 63%
Frontier Cancun 72%
Air Canada Toronto 70%


24% out?! I knew PUJ was suffering, but not that much!


Someone, please explain the 24 out 93 in for PUJ. I have never understood that. Are people using connections on the way out due to the departure time of the non-stop?
 
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T18
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:34 pm

Does that happen to be a cruise destination when one would end in another city?
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.” ― Steve McQueen (Le Mans) 1971
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:14 am

jplatts wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:
I'm seeing 2-3 Allegiant flights/day for the past few days. You can't tell me they can't handle that with the two gates they already have.

Predicating expansion on the whims of one airline is incredibly risky, and they're not the only small G4 station that has this dilemma.


DL adding service out of BLV is a possibility if G4 pulls out of BLV as DL already serves other secondary airports such as BUR, MDW, DAL, HOU, LGB, MHT, SWF, PHF, OAK, ONT, SNA, SJC, HPN, and ORH.


DL is not going to serve BLV unless STL is swallowed by a huge sink hole. There is no reason for them to serve BLV. It isn’t better location wise and STL isn’t capacity restrained. All those airports either have a lot of population around them or are secondary because the main airport is capacity restrained.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2903
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:18 am

TWA302 wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Intl Load Factor for April

Volaris HUX 77%
Volaris Cabo 58%
Volaris Puerto Vallarta 56% (only 1 flight)
Southwest Cancun 75%
Southwest Punta Cana 24% out 93% in (1 flight each)
Southwest Montego 82%
Frontier Punta Cana 63%
Frontier Cancun 72%
Air Canada Toronto 70%


24% out?! I knew PUJ was suffering, but not that much!


Someone, please explain the 24 out 93 in for PUJ. I have never understood that. Are people using connections on the way out due to the departure time of the non-stop?


The outbound was fairly early in the morning so not many connections could be fed thru STL that way. The inbound got in around 4ish, if I remember correctly, so it could bring some back. Also it was the last nonstop of the season so maybe less people were open to taking a connecting flight on the return since a nonstop wasn’t offered? Not really sure why it is SO low.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:48 am

T18 wrote:
Does that happen to be a cruise destination when one would end in another city?


I'm not sure PUJ is big on cruises.
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pmanni1
Posts: 122
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:03 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:

24% out?! I knew PUJ was suffering, but not that much!


Someone, please explain the 24 out 93 in for PUJ. I have never understood that. Are people using connections on the way out due to the departure time of the non-stop?


The outbound was fairly early in the morning so not many connections could be fed thru STL that way. The inbound got in around 4ish, if I remember correctly, so it could bring some back. Also it was the last nonstop of the season so maybe less people were open to taking a connecting flight on the return since a nonstop wasn’t offered? Not really sure why it is SO low.


I wonder if 24% is an error. I don't think they would be bringing that route back in 2020 if loads were that poor.
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:05 pm

jplatts wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:
I'm seeing 2-3 Allegiant flights/day for the past few days. You can't tell me they can't handle that with the two gates they already have.

Predicating expansion on the whims of one airline is incredibly risky, and they're not the only small G4 station that has this dilemma.


DL adding service out of BLV is a possibility if G4 pulls out of BLV as DL already serves other secondary airports such as BUR, MDW, DAL, HOU, LGB, MHT, SWF, PHF, OAK, ONT, SNA, SJC, HPN, and ORH.


There is no logic behind saying that since California secondary airports have Delta then BLV may get it.
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:56 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
DL is not going to serve BLV unless STL is swallowed by a huge sink hole. There is no reason for them to serve BLV. It isn’t better location wise and STL isn’t capacity restrained. All those airports either have a lot of population around them or are secondary because the main airport is capacity restrained.


pmanni1 wrote:
There is no logic behind saying that since California secondary airports have Delta then BLV may get it.


The population of the northern part of the Hampton Roads area (including Williamsburg, Newport News, and Hampton) is around 500,000 people, whereas the population of the Illinois portion of the St. Louis metro area and the other Illinois counties near BLV is around 600,000 people.

DL serves ATL nonstop from both PHF and ORF in the Hampton Roads area, even with the northern part of the Hampton Roads area being smaller by population than the Illinois portion of the St. Louis metro area and surrounding Illinois counties.

I agree that DL is unlikely to add service to BLV, even with the Metro-East region and surrounding Illinois counties being larger by population than the northern portion of the Hampton Roads area.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:37 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
DL is not going to serve BLV unless STL is swallowed by a huge sink hole. There is no reason for them to serve BLV. It isn’t better location wise and STL isn’t capacity restrained. All those airports either have a lot of population around them or are secondary because the main airport is capacity restrained.


pmanni1 wrote:
There is no logic behind saying that since California secondary airports have Delta then BLV may get it.


The population of the northern part of the Hampton Roads area (including Williamsburg, Newport News, and Hampton) is around 500,000 people, whereas the population of the Illinois portion of the St. Louis metro area and the other Illinois counties near BLV is around 600,000 people.

DL serves ATL nonstop from both PHF and ORF in the Hampton Roads area, even with the northern part of the Hampton Roads area being smaller by population than the Illinois portion of the St. Louis metro area and surrounding Illinois counties.

I agree that DL is unlikely to add service to BLV, even with the Metro-East region and surrounding Illinois counties being larger by population than the northern portion of the Hampton Roads area.


PHF is an anomaly because of military installations.
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dcaproducer
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:40 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

There are floor plans online somewhere of what they want to expand. Includes customs capabilities.

That all said they are going to be down flights (and I think passengers) this year. They keep saying they are going to be up 10% or something but I don’t know how based on the flights they are having. Most of the non summer months are down. The summer months were up something like 1 flight a week.


The airport is finally seeing relatively consistent numbers. I'm not sure expanding is the best use of money right now. I know they've said they have issues on busy days, but spending $30-40million to expand a terminal that has lost money for 15 years doesn't make too much sense. Now if NK wanted to add service, that would be interesting, but I see them going to STL, not BLV.


I'm seeing 2-3 Allegiant flights/day for the past few days. You can't tell me they can't handle that with the two gates they already have.

Predicating expansion on the whims of one airline is incredibly risky, and they're not the only small G4 station that has this dilemma.


I looked at their plans and read their reasoning for the expansion. First, the airport was designed for pre 9/11 security, so when passengers go upstairs they basically took a large portion of the holding area to put in security. The new plans would create an entirely new screening area. G4 also banks their flights, so they sometimes have 4+ aircraft on the ground at once. With those all being A320 capacity, that’s more passengers than the hold areas were designed for. They don’t have room for concessions, and the addition would add that.

I understand those reasons, but this is an airport that has barely started turning a profit after more than 15 years of losing money. Now if G4 wanted to pick up part of the bill that would be one thing, but that doesn’t sound like that’s the case.

Heck Illinois is going to spend a ton of $$ to extend Metro to the terminal.

Also, I agree with Jshank83, STL would have to disappear from the surface of the earth before DL serves BLV. I think DL would prefer to upgrade and potentially expand their presence at STL.
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:04 pm

Yeah, DL isn't ever going to serve BLV. They serve secondary airports in those other areas because of geographical reasons, population density, and/or traffic constrained main airports. BLV doesn't have any of those things going for it.

I live about five minutes away from IWA out here in Phoenix and it's the same story. They've got a bunch of G4 service and service from Westjet's LCC and that's about it. It's too far east in the metro area to attract much of the population and airlines and customers alike have no reason to trek out to it over Sky Harbor.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2903
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:19 pm

As to the BLV comments and the expansion I tend to agree with everyone. It doesn’t make sense to expand unless Spirit is going to start flights.

Tell G4 to pony up some money or they need to start staggering their flights more. I think they max around 6 flights on any day. If you can’t make that work with 2 gates (plus a 3rd one you can board from the ground) that is an operational problem. Base some planes here so you can have early morning flights.

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