GSP psgr
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:10 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
acentauri wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:

Condor seems to prefer US destinations that have tourism appeal, which STL really doesn't. I don't think LH has an aircraft small enough to attempt this route with and frankly, there are probably better targets in the US that are unserved by them.

I still think BA is the best bet.

PDX, PIT, PVD, MSP, BWI, ANC, et al. surely can't be considered "Tourist Destinations" for Europeans.


The BW in BWI stands for Baltimore-Washington. BWI is a third airport in the DC metro and a popular choice for tourists coming to Washington. It's about the same distance from downtown DC as IAD. (32 Miles from BWI to Capitol Hill, 28 Miles from IAD to Capitol Hill) BA has had a daily BWI-LHR flight for years, and this is in additional to multiple daily flights at IAD.

ANC has huge tourist draw, but I don't know if I'd say it's coming from Europe.


When I lived in DC and had to go to London, I preferred to take the BWI-LHR flight. Dulles is a top to bottom complete cluster as an O&D airport: It's far from downtown, difficult to get to using transit, and has an appalling layout. BWI's far from downtown, but MARC makes things a bit easier, and once you get there, the layout is completely conventional.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:44 pm

atrude777 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

Not surprisingly it looks like Marion is down to Cape with flights to STL and BNA or Skywest.

https://www.kfvs12.com/2019/07/16/veter ... -new-bids/


A quote from the Article from Doug, whom I happen to know. His Wife used to be my 4th grade teacher hahaha

"“You’ve got a smaller aircraft on Cape Air. A nine seat airplane that can operate with high frequency and a low fair, generally under $100 round trip,” Kimmel said, “and then you have a larger aircraft, 50 seat capability offered by Skywest, and less frequency, and a fair that would be higher.”

That didn't look good for SkyWest...he used negative remarks... "less frequency, and a fare that would be higher"...Hahahaha

I am seeing the comments on FB too like you mentioned, and it's a lot of STL/BNA split or Chicago.


The other wording in the article threw me off...

"According to Airport Director Doug Kimmel, if the airport decides to go with two proposals they are leaning towards, people will be able to take a short plane ride to Chicago and Nashville on top of the service to St. Louis they already offer."

It's either/or?? It claims "and on top of the service they already offer"...poor choice of wording perhaps?

Alex



I saw that Also. Whoever wrote it had it wrong. It’s either or.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:02 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
acentauri wrote:
PDX, PIT, PVD, MSP, BWI, ANC, et al. surely can't be considered "Tourist Destinations" for Europeans.


The BW in BWI stands for Baltimore-Washington. BWI is a third airport in the DC metro and a popular choice for tourists coming to Washington. It's about the same distance from downtown DC as IAD. (32 Miles from BWI to Capitol Hill, 28 Miles from IAD to Capitol Hill) BA has had a daily BWI-LHR flight for years, and this is in additional to multiple daily flights at IAD.

ANC has huge tourist draw, but I don't know if I'd say it's coming from Europe.


When I lived in DC and had to go to London, I preferred to take the BWI-LHR flight. Dulles is a top to bottom complete cluster as an O&D airport: It's far from downtown, difficult to get to using transit, and has an appalling layout. BWI's far from downtown, but MARC makes things a bit easier, and once you get there, the layout is completely conventional.


About to change at IAD when Metro opens the Silver Line extension next year. But generally I avoid IAD. I mainly fly out of DCA and as a DL flier am happy to connect internationally.
But I digress, this is a bit off topic. Between business commitments and tourists I think STL could fill a daily 787 to a major European hub such as LHR or FRA.
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:36 pm

acentauri wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:
stl07 wrote:
But Condor has a nice buisness class. I doubt Bayer would need F. But who knows, this is why I'm not an airport director.


Condor seems to prefer US destinations that have tourism appeal, which STL really doesn't. I don't think LH has an aircraft small enough to attempt this route with and frankly, there are probably better targets in the US that are unserved by them.

I still think BA is the best bet.

PDX, PIT, PVD, MSP, BWI, ANC, et al. surely can't be considered "Tourist Destinations" for Europeans.


Nonsense. Condor is a leisure airline. They prefer destinations where there is leisure demand. That ain't St. Louis.

ANC - cruises, the greater Alaska area
FAI - cruises and northern lights.
BWI - Washington DC
PHX - golf, warm weather, spring training, Sedona, etc.
Nawlins - French Quarter
SEA - cruises, PNW area in general
LAS - no explanation needed
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:48 pm

What about PVD, PIT, and MSP. Boundary Waters and the Duquesne Incline are not the things filling those flights
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
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flyPIT
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:04 pm

Plenty of touristy things in Germany for the folks in PIT and MSP to experience.
FLYi
 
Trololzilla
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:31 am

Jshank83 wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

Not surprisingly it looks like Marion is down to Cape with flights to STL and BNA or Skywest.

https://www.kfvs12.com/2019/07/16/veter ... -new-bids/


A quote from the Article from Doug, whom I happen to know. His Wife used to be my 4th grade teacher hahaha

"“You’ve got a smaller aircraft on Cape Air. A nine seat airplane that can operate with high frequency and a low fair, generally under $100 round trip,” Kimmel said, “and then you have a larger aircraft, 50 seat capability offered by Skywest, and less frequency, and a fair that would be higher.”

That didn't look good for SkyWest...he used negative remarks... "less frequency, and a fare that would be higher"...Hahahaha

I am seeing the comments on FB too like you mentioned, and it's a lot of STL/BNA split or Chicago.


The other wording in the article threw me off...

"According to Airport Director Doug Kimmel, if the airport decides to go with two proposals they are leaning towards, people will be able to take a short plane ride to Chicago and Nashville on top of the service to St. Louis they already offer."

It's either/or?? It claims "and on top of the service they already offer"...poor choice of wording perhaps?

Alex



I saw that Also. Whoever wrote it had it wrong. It’s either or.

The "fair" versus "fare" is also bugging me. KFVS needs a better copy-editor.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:08 am

flyPIT wrote:
Plenty of touristy things in Germany for the folks in PIT and MSP to experience.

The poster was criticizing that lack of tourism in STL, so I bought out other examples of cities with the same issue that have flights.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:08 am

flyPIT wrote:
Plenty of touristy things in Germany for the folks in PIT and MSP to experience.

The poster was criticizing that lack of tourism in STL, so I bought out other examples of cities with the same issue that have flights.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:11 pm

 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:43 pm

stl07 wrote:
What about PVD, PIT, and MSP. Boundary Waters and the Duquesne Incline are not the things filling those flights


Pennsylvania has a very strong German heritage. Not sure about the other two, but it doesn't make what I said any less true.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:30 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
stl07 wrote:
What about PVD, PIT, and MSP. Boundary Waters and the Duquesne Incline are not the things filling those flights


Pennsylvania has a very strong German heritage. Not sure about the other two, but it doesn't make what I said any less true.


If Wiki can be trusted, there's a strong belt of German-American's across the midwest and even more in Minnesota. PA and MO are about the same in terms of % of German-Americans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:52 pm

Jshank83 wrote:



Nothing else matters.

Close the thread.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:44 pm

stlgph wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:



Nothing else matters.

Close the thread.


Haha! The concourse looks so good in that spot. Bright and "fresh" not like the old purple and gray walls.
 
atrude777
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:26 am

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/skyw ... op-story-1

SkyWest Airlines met with Marion, Illinois-Veterans Airport to show off their CRJ200 Aircraft and offer their proposal!

"MARION — Representatives of SkyWest Airlines met with community leaders and the media to pitch their proposal for air service between Veterans Airport of Southern Illinois in Marion and O’Hare International Airport in Chicago.

Five airlines have submitted proposals to provide connecting air service from Marion to St. Louis, Chicago or Nashville, Tennessee.

“This is designed to connect us to the national air transportation system,” Airport Director Doug Kimmel said."
-The Southern



Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:44 am

atrude777 wrote:
https://thesouthern.com/news/local/skywest-wants-to-fly-passengers-from-marion-to-chicago/article_50586071-e8e7-54b6-9041-1d53067a88ed.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

SkyWest Airlines met with Marion, Illinois-Veterans Airport to show off their CRJ200 Aircraft and offer their proposal!

"MARION — Representatives of SkyWest Airlines met with community leaders and the media to pitch their proposal for air service between Veterans Airport of Southern Illinois in Marion and O’Hare International Airport in Chicago.

Five airlines have submitted proposals to provide connecting air service from Marion to St. Louis, Chicago or Nashville, Tennessee.

“This is designed to connect us to the national air transportation system,” Airport Director Doug Kimmel said."
-The Southern



Alex

Funny to see both the airlines in the same pic. Looks like the article was right after all :)
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:28 am

Looks like with WNs October schedule revision STL-SLC is still scheduled to start Oct 2 mon-sat. BUT SLC-STL isn’t on the schedule until November. So it will only be one way in October. Random but at least it is starting.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:13 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Looks like with WNs October schedule revision STL-SLC is still scheduled to start Oct 2 mon-sat. BUT SLC-STL isn’t on the schedule until November. So it will only be one way in October. Random but at least it is starting.


WN's entire year of expansion has been messed up by the MAX issues. I'm sure they wish they had more planes right now.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:36 am

Well this is unfortunate. Hopefully they have some backup money.


The St. Louis County Port Authority on Thursday cut a program that would have given up to $5 million to an airline willing to start a nonstop flight to Europe from St. Louis Lambert International Airport.

He said the board also looked at other regions that had subsidized European flights and found that the flights tended to end once the subsidy stopped.

Coleman said airlines were to respond to the incentive by August or September, and that the board wanted to act before that could occur.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... en-5m.html
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:50 am

That's a St. Louis attitude…

"It's not going to be successful, so why try?"

I mean, that's the only way you're going to get an airline in the door, here. What does it hurt to try? Beats wasting money on another hideously expensive vanity project that no one is going to use like the Loop trolley. I can't believe someone can't make a translant flight work with Bayer, Inbev, Boeing Defense, Graybar, Enterprise, and every other large transnational company in the STL area.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:59 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
That's a St. Louis attitude…

"It's not going to be successful, so why try?"

I mean, that's the only way you're going to get an airline in the door, here. What does it hurt to try? Beats wasting money on another hideously expensive vanity project that no one is going to use like the Loop trolley. I can't believe someone can't make a translant flight work with Bayer, Inbev, Boeing Defense, Graybar, Enterprise, and every other large transnational company in the STL area.


Complete BS. Denny and his merry band of idiots just screwed up on this one.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:42 pm

Last OAG changes and this one caught my attention.

AA LGA-STL JAN 5>3[3] FEB 5>2[3] MAR 5>3[3] APR 5>3[3] . - Is this normal for AA to drop 2 LGA flights this time of year? I wouldn't think so.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:37 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Last OAG changes and this one caught my attention.

AA LGA-STL JAN 5>3[3] FEB 5>2[3] MAR 5>3[3] APR 5>3[3] . - Is this normal for AA to drop 2 LGA flights this time of year? I wouldn't think so.

I doubt it, there are always 3-5 LGA flights. I just did a dummy booking and there were 3 175s in Feb, so not the most amount of fights on that route but not to bad considering they were all e175s. For some reason they always take out an lga flight in the OAG and then add it back in later, but it is usually from 4 to 3 not to 2.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:53 am

BLV numbers for April

Down 9.87%

Down 9.83% on the year.

They say it will be up 20% for the year when it is over so it better turn around quickly.
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:46 am

TWA302 wrote:
Last OAG changes and this one caught my attention.

AA LGA-STL JAN 5>3[3] FEB 5>2[3] MAR 5>3[3] APR 5>3[3] . - Is this normal for AA to drop 2 LGA flights this time of year? I wouldn't think so.

I think DL will soon be the number 2 carrier at STL. They fly 6x daily ERJ175's on this route and are going after the business traveler that demands frequencies. DL maintains their frequencies on all of their routes in STL with little change. AA is constantly whittling away at flights.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:39 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Last OAG changes and this one caught my attention.

AA LGA-STL JAN 5>3[3] FEB 5>2[3] MAR 5>3[3] APR 5>3[3] . - Is this normal for AA to drop 2 LGA flights this time of year? I wouldn't think so.

I think DL will soon be the number 2 carrier at STL. They fly 6x daily ERJ175's on this route and are going after the business traveler that demands frequencies. DL maintains their frequencies on all of their routes in STL with little change. AA is constantly whittling away at flights.


I've said this many times. DL has the product and the service to really take over as the #2 carrier in STL. WN will keep its dominance, but DL could make some smart adds to destinations like LAX, SEA, BOS, and JFK. If they really got motivated they could build a SkyClub on top of A, similar to what they did to the B club in ATL. (Or move to C and use the old TWA club)

I'd love if they could add back the DCA-STL flight, but I know they're tight on slots at DCA.

It's been more than 10 years since I switched from AA to DL and I haven't looked back.
 
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:40 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
I think DL will soon be the number 2 carrier at STL. They fly 6x daily ERJ175's on this route and are going after the business traveler that demands frequencies. DL maintains their frequencies on all of their routes in STL with little change. AA is constantly whittling away at flights.


AA is currently the only airline serving CLT nonstop from STL, but WN adding STL-CLT nonstop service might happen with CLT being one of the top destinations traveled to from STL that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from CLT.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:36 pm

jplatts wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
I think DL will soon be the number 2 carrier at STL. They fly 6x daily ERJ175's on this route and are going after the business traveler that demands frequencies. DL maintains their frequencies on all of their routes in STL with little change. AA is constantly whittling away at flights.


AA is currently the only airline serving CLT nonstop from STL, but WN adding STL-CLT nonstop service might happen with CLT being one of the top destinations traveled to from STL that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from CLT.


From what I remember, WN has two gates at CLT in Terminal A. Are there more gates they can use there? I think I remember reading somewhere that the lack of gates is a huge issue with CLT growth. I would love to get WN STL-CLT. My parents now live in Blytheweood, SC and when I go there AA is always such a pleasure. :roll:

Also, AA is routing many connections via CLT now versus ORD/DFW. That is a huge reason why it is one of the top destinations from STL.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:26 pm

TWA302 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
I think DL will soon be the number 2 carrier at STL. They fly 6x daily ERJ175's on this route and are going after the business traveler that demands frequencies. DL maintains their frequencies on all of their routes in STL with little change. AA is constantly whittling away at flights.


AA is currently the only airline serving CLT nonstop from STL, but WN adding STL-CLT nonstop service might happen with CLT being one of the top destinations traveled to from STL that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from CLT.


From what I remember, WN has two gates at CLT in Terminal A. Are there more gates they can use there? I think I remember reading somewhere that the lack of gates is a huge issue with CLT growth. I would love to get WN STL-CLT. My parents now live in Blytheweood, SC and when I go there AA is always such a pleasure. :roll:

Also, AA is routing many connections via CLT now versus ORD/DFW. That is a huge reason why it is one of the top destinations from STL.


I believe that's correct about CLT and WN. Lack of gates is probably why there's not STL flights.
I think RIC would also be a good add for WN from STL.

Bottom line for WN is they need all of those MAX planes that are sitting on the ground before they really start making any additions.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:07 pm

AA has been increasing seats overall even though they have less flights. Bigger planes but less frequency. So take that how you want.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:32 pm

https://twitter.com/mitchwhitten/status ... 2038201344
So apparently people from around the world in the tourism industry are in STL currently. The STL news media is claiming they are ecstatic about all that STL has to offer. Interesting
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:14 am

stl07 wrote:
https://twitter.com/mitchwhitten/status/1154516452038201344
So apparently people from around the world in the tourism industry are in STL currently. The STL news media is claiming they are ecstatic about all that STL has to offer. Interesting


Hopefully they got some intl airline people to come to it then....... :-/
 
N383SW
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:36 am

stl07 wrote:
https://twitter.com/mitchwhitten/status/1154516452038201344
So apparently people from around the world in the tourism industry are in STL currently. The STL news media is claiming they are ecstatic about all that STL has to offer. Interesting


I mean... that’s all well and good but what would they be expected to say? “We just love the crime rate” “oh your light rail is just lovely, I’d love to get mugged or shot”. In all seriousness, I’m not really one to be a downer but realistically I wouldn’t expect them to get in front of a news camera and say anything else.
 
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T18
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:16 am

N383SW wrote:
stl07 wrote:
https://twitter.com/mitchwhitten/status/1154516452038201344
So apparently people from around the world in the tourism industry are in STL currently. The STL news media is claiming they are ecstatic about all that STL has to offer. Interesting


I mean... that’s all well and good but what would they be expected to say? “We just love the crime rate” “oh your light rail is just lovely, I’d love to get mugged or shot”. In all seriousness, I’m not really one to be a downer but realistically I wouldn’t expect them to get in front of a news camera and say anything else.

You forgot 'Oh what a totally useful trolley system you have'.
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.” ― Steve McQueen (Le Mans) 1971
 
N383SW
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:24 am

T18 wrote:
N383SW wrote:
stl07 wrote:
https://twitter.com/mitchwhitten/status/1154516452038201344
So apparently people from around the world in the tourism industry are in STL currently. The STL news media is claiming they are ecstatic about all that STL has to offer. Interesting


I mean... that’s all well and good but what would they be expected to say? “We just love the crime rate” “oh your light rail is just lovely, I’d love to get mugged or shot”. In all seriousness, I’m not really one to be a downer but realistically I wouldn’t expect them to get in front of a news camera and say anything else.

You forgot 'Oh what a totally useful trolley system you have'.


lmao I almost went there but I was trying to watch my words and not offend anyone.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:02 am

N383SW wrote:
T18 wrote:
N383SW wrote:

I mean... that’s all well and good but what would they be expected to say? “We just love the crime rate” “oh your light rail is just lovely, I’d love to get mugged or shot”. In all seriousness, I’m not really one to be a downer but realistically I wouldn’t expect them to get in front of a news camera and say anything else.

You forgot 'Oh what a totally useful trolley system you have'.


lmao I almost went there but I was trying to watch my words and not offend anyone.

Bwhahahaha that was too good.


"Oh what a lovely ski resort you have" said nobody...except vail resorts
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:24 am

N383SW wrote:
stl07 wrote:
https://twitter.com/mitchwhitten/status/1154516452038201344
So apparently people from around the world in the tourism industry are in STL currently. The STL news media is claiming they are ecstatic about all that STL has to offer. Interesting


I mean... that’s all well and good but what would they be expected to say? “We just love the crime rate” “oh your light rail is just lovely, I’d love to get mugged or shot”. In all seriousness, I’m not really one to be a downer but realistically I wouldn’t expect them to get in front of a news camera and say anything else.

It was more of conversations they overheard and civic leaders saying they were going to tell their home cities how nice STL was and completely different than when they visited say 20 years ago., not come here and say something good about STL. Jokes aside (I particularly liked the trolly one :)), we all (myself included) love to complain about the region, it offers many great attractions for visitors, off the charts for those who like history. No, it's not Miami but with the resurgence, we have lived through, in the past 5 or so years, it is becoming a great place
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:39 am

stl07 wrote:
No, it's not Miami but with the resurgence, we have lived through, in the past 5 or so years, it is becoming a great place


Not to correct you but if you haven't heard we are getting cruise ships to dock here. Sooooo STL=Miami of the midwest.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:58 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
No, it's not Miami but with the resurgence, we have lived through, in the past 5 or so years, it is becoming a great place


Not to correct you but if you haven't heard we are getting cruise ships to dock here. Sooooo STL=Miami of the midwest.

You better not be talking about those Viking cruises :lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?t=1412265
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:14 pm

stl07 wrote:
N383SW wrote:
stl07 wrote:
https://twitter.com/mitchwhitten/status/1154516452038201344
So apparently people from around the world in the tourism industry are in STL currently. The STL news media is claiming they are ecstatic about all that STL has to offer. Interesting


I mean... that’s all well and good but what would they be expected to say? “We just love the crime rate” “oh your light rail is just lovely, I’d love to get mugged or shot”. In all seriousness, I’m not really one to be a downer but realistically I wouldn’t expect them to get in front of a news camera and say anything else.

It was more of conversations they overheard and civic leaders saying they were going to tell their home cities how nice STL was and completely different than when they visited say 20 years ago., not come here and say something good about STL. Jokes aside (I particularly liked the trolly one :)), we all (myself included) love to complain about the region, it offers many great attractions for visitors, off the charts for those who like history. No, it's not Miami but with the resurgence, we have lived through, in the past 5 or so years, it is becoming a great place


I'd say it's gotten worse over the past twenty years. Population is down, murder rates are up, several F500s have left or been bought out since then, we lost an NFL team, we lost a hubbed airline, we have an inept mayor and a corrupt police force. And the worst part is there is no clear plan or direction on how to improve any of this.
 
N383SW
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:14 pm

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
No, it's not Miami but with the resurgence, we have lived through, in the past 5 or so years, it is becoming a great place


Not to correct you but if you haven't heard we are getting cruise ships to dock here. Sooooo STL=Miami of the midwest.

You better not be talking about those Viking cruises :lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?t=1412265

Well I guess we better fire up the rotary phone and request to have the trolley extended to the riverfront! They’d have it done by 2052, just in time for BA to have their inaugural on the 380!
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:38 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
stl07 wrote:
N383SW wrote:

I mean... that’s all well and good but what would they be expected to say? “We just love the crime rate” “oh your light rail is just lovely, I’d love to get mugged or shot”. In all seriousness, I’m not really one to be a downer but realistically I wouldn’t expect them to get in front of a news camera and say anything else.

It was more of conversations they overheard and civic leaders saying they were going to tell their home cities how nice STL was and completely different than when they visited say 20 years ago., not come here and say something good about STL. Jokes aside (I particularly liked the trolly one :)), we all (myself included) love to complain about the region, it offers many great attractions for visitors, off the charts for those who like history. No, it's not Miami but with the resurgence, we have lived through, in the past 5 or so years, it is becoming a great place


I'd say it's gotten worse over the past twenty years. Population is down, murder rates are up, several F500s have left or been bought out since then, we lost an NFL team, we lost a hubbed airline, we have an inept mayor and a corrupt police force. And the worst part is there is no clear plan or direction on how to improve any of this.


So as someone who is from STL, but hasn't lived in St. Louis in 20 years, things are definitely better today than they were in the late 90's, with the exception of how crazy busy the TWA hub at STL was. The new ballpark, ballpark village, arch grounds renovation, etc are all positives. The CWE, Forest Park, Clayton are all exploding with development compared to where they were 20 years ago. The 40 corridor out to Chesterfield is doing well.

STL does need to address its crime rate, which is high even compared to similar sized metro areas. More TOD will help bring life to the city.
More importantly the city, county and state need better leadership. They need to make it easy for business. Missouri also needs to become more progressive. Backwards political leadership/thinking will continue to alienate states and areas that don't embrace the global economy. When I hear about Missouri in the national news it's normally not something positive. Young tech employees, highly educated employees, don't want to move to a "backwards" state.

I live and own a business in Virginia, which is consistently considered one of the best states for businesses.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/09/virgini ... -2019.html
I've been in Northern Virginia for nearly 20 years and govt. here is just so much more efficient than STL. It's not perfect, but it's good. It helps when the govt. spends money, but I've been here for ups and downs. There are cities that do make it easier for business, look at Austin, Nashville, Portland, etc.

I don't mean to rant, but looking at the state of the market, the airport, economy, these are many of the same complaints I heard 20-30 years ago. "Don't go downtown, unless you want to get shot." Until people demand and vote for something different it's not going to change.
 
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TWA302
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:17 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:44 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
stl07 wrote:
N383SW wrote:

I mean... that’s all well and good but what would they be expected to say? “We just love the crime rate” “oh your light rail is just lovely, I’d love to get mugged or shot”. In all seriousness, I’m not really one to be a downer but realistically I wouldn’t expect them to get in front of a news camera and say anything else.

It was more of conversations they overheard and civic leaders saying they were going to tell their home cities how nice STL was and completely different than when they visited say 20 years ago., not come here and say something good about STL. Jokes aside (I particularly liked the trolly one :)), we all (myself included) love to complain about the region, it offers many great attractions for visitors, off the charts for those who like history. No, it's not Miami but with the resurgence, we have lived through, in the past 5 or so years, it is becoming a great place


I'd say it's gotten worse over the past twenty years. The population is down, murder rates are up, several F500s have left or been bought out since then, we lost an NFL team, we lost a hubbed airline, we have an inept mayor and a corrupt police force. And the worst part is there is no clear plan or direction on how to improve any of this.


The only population that is DOWN is the City of St. Louis and parts of St. Louis County (2000 - 2018) every other County in the metro has seen growth, and St. Charles being the biggest of them all. The city is the problem, not the rest of the metro. I'll give you the crime downtown (yep, north city is a shit hole) but the NFL screwed St. Louis. We did nothing wrong. Douche canoe wanted more money. Plain and simple. We lost TW because they were broke (not the fault of St. Louis). You are grasping at straws with some of these claims. Big companies come and go. There IS job growth, especially in the tech sector. Let the moron mayor of the city figure it out is laughable. She couldn't figure out how to get out of a paper bag.

St. Louis gets a bad rap for some of the most media-hyped up invalid and or false reasons and part of it is on the shoulders of the people here who think there is nothing to do, crime is too high, yada, yada, yada.
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:51 pm

So as someone who is from STL, but hasn't lived in St. Louis in 20 years, things are definitely better today than they were in the late 90's, with the exception of how crazy busy the TWA hub at STL was. The new ballpark, ballpark village, arch grounds renovation, etc are all positives. The CWE, Forest Park, Clayton are all exploding with development compared to where they were 20 years ago. The 40 corridor out to Chesterfield is doing well.


Meanwhile downtown is in a tail spin and crime is running rampant, even in supposedly "nice areas" like Wash Ave. They had to practically give away the AT&T building to get a tenant for it. AB was bought out and had massive job cuts. Purina was bought out. TWA was purchased out of bankruptcy. Express Scripts was bought out. Sigma Aldrich was purchased. AG Edwards is gone. Scottrade was bought out. McD was bought out. Charter moved their HQ to CT. And there's probably a half dozen others I'm forgetting.

So yeah, sure, there's ballpark village, which is just a cheap knockoff of Wrigleyville. Which has only taken the better part of a decade to build out because of mismanagement by the city. I worked for the company that was originally supposed to anchor BBV with a new high rise. The city refused to give us tax breaks so we stayed in Clayton instead. They got the new high rise and the three buildings that came after it. And the city got a gravel lot and a softball field for several years until they got their asses in gear.

STL does need to address its crime rate, which is high even compared to similar sized metro areas. More TOD will help bring life to the city.
More importantly the city, county and state need better leadership. They need to make it easy for business. Missouri also needs to become more progressive. Backwards political leadership/thinking will continue to alienate states and areas that don't embrace the global economy.


I couldn't agree any more. Area leadership needs to get their heads out of their asses and start putting the money towards the things that count instead of stupid, astronomically expensive vanity projects like the trolley. There's long been this air of provincial thinking in the STL area that isn't conducive to growth and progress and it needs to change. Nobody that matters cares about sports teams. We need safer streets and better schools. (Re)Build the infrastructure and they will come.

I don't mean to rant, but looking at the state of the market, the airport, economy, these are many of the same complaints I heard 20-30 years ago. "Don't go downtown, unless you want to get shot." Until people demand and vote for something different it's not going to change.


People don't like to admit it, but it's true to a certain extent. And most people aren't going downtown unless it's to a sporting event.

TWA302 wrote:
The only population that is DOWN is the City of St. Louis and parts of St. Louis County (2000 - 2018) every other County in the metro has seen growth, and St. Charles being the biggest of them all. The city is the problem, not the rest of the metro. I'll give you the crime downtown (yep, north city is a shit hole)


I thought it was fairly clear that I'm talking specifically about the city, here.

TWA302 wrote:
but the NFL screwed St. Louis. We did nothing wrong.


Besides being a far less desirable place to do business, sure. People love to villify Kroenke, but if you could double the value of an asset you own overnight by moving it across the country, why wouldn't you?

TWA302 wrote:
You are grasping at straws with some of these claims. Big companies come and go.


See above, far more of them have left than have come.

TWA302 wrote:
St. Louis gets a bad rap for some of the most media-hyped up invalid and or false reasons and part of it is on the shoulders of the people here who think there is nothing to do, crime is too high, yada, yada, yada.


I'd say the apologists that refuse to see the problems for what they are because of civic pride are equally as destructive.
 
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stl07
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:54 pm

^^I posted the above link to point out that tourism leaders from abroad and in the US were very impressed with the changes made to STL and looked forward to promoting the region in their home towns, as this may lead to extra flights, as seen by PIT's FRA flight and their one-off China flight, or more realistically like the twice-weekly tourist flights G4 has into BNA, or at least more visitors on the current flights we already have. Not what locals had to say about it as locals from STL will always either be high school cheerleaders for the city or do their level best to put the city they choose to live in down.

Also, the airport serves the whole bi-state area, not just the STL city, which doesn't even makeup 15% of the population, and it IS a growing region. Feel free to take discussions regarding the official "city" over to the UrbanSTL thread
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:59 pm

 
Jshank83
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:33 pm

46 straight months of growth at the airport.

June was up 1% which with the MAX groundings I'll take.
Calendar year to date up 2.5%
Just under 16 mil passengers for the FY.

Originating traffic accounted for 77 percent of all enplanements in FY2019, up 3.2 percent. Connecting traffic was at 23 percent of all enplanements for an increase of 6.8 percent versus FY2018.

“We recently surpassed originating or local passenger traffic levels not seen since 2000 and we’re still seeing positive gains locally with our originating traffic which is extremely encouraging,” said STL Director Rhonda Hamm-Niebruegge.

https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... iscal-year

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:47 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
46 straight months of growth at the airport.

June was up 1% which with the MAX groundings I'll take.
Calendar year to date up 2.5%
Just under 16 mil passengers for the FY.

Originating traffic accounted for 77 percent of all enplanements in FY2019, up 3.2 percent. Connecting traffic was at 23 percent of all enplanements for an increase of 6.8 percent versus FY2018.

“We recently surpassed originating or local passenger traffic levels not seen since 2000 and we’re still seeing positive gains locally with our originating traffic which is extremely encouraging,” said STL Director Rhonda Hamm-Niebruegge.

https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... iscal-year

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf


The originating percentage is great. My guess is 2020 will see a good uptick once the Max issues are sorted out and WN can get back to normal. The lack of aircraft has got to be causing all sorts of headaches.

If the summer load factors are good the airport should be able to top 16million in CY19.
 
stlgph
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:43 pm

I think Southwest is going to be sidelined longer than many think and the growth at STL on their front is headed into a doldrum.

Numbers like these are without a doubt attractive to Spirit. They have planes that need somewhere to go.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
reednavy
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:55 pm

stlgph wrote:
I think Southwest is going to be sidelined longer than many think and the growth at STL on their front is headed into a doldrum.

Numbers like these are without a doubt attractive to Spirit. They have planes that need somewhere to go.

It just seems to be a matter of when, not if, Spirit comes into STL. The competition would be great for Lambert and potentially drive down fares on some routes in particular.

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