Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

N292UX · Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:13 pm

Any updates on IB to MGA? I know they were going to start it in 2018, but postponed it due to issues in Nicaragua. Are they going to be launching it anytime soon?

SJOtoLIR · Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:19 am

Kilgen wrote:
CM started Paramaribo, Suriname. 2 fx per week.

From July 07th, Copa Airlines is operating in all the mainland countries in America, disregarding some Caribbean islands.
I don't think Pan Am could have held such status.

Regards.

LRC315 · Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:10 pm

Information per Aviacioncr.net’s Facebook page. Iberia has scheduled their A346 to operate the route MAD-SJO from December 13th to December 17th and will use their A350-900 from December 18th 2019 until March 28th 2020. Awesome news, to have the “raccoon” flying to SJO.

LTU932 · Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:23 pm

I remember when Finnair brought the A350 to HAM. Too bad my schedule (and me trying to save money) prevented me from booking the flight to Helsinki just to be on one. BTW: About time the A350 finally comes to SJO.

SJOtoLIR · Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:56 am

Won’t this the first 350 in Central America as scheduled flights ?

juanchito · Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:45 am

SJOtoLIR wrote:
Won’t this the first 350 in Central America as scheduled flights ?

Yes first Schedule flight

First A350 en Central America was Air China in Belize for official visit

SJOtoLIR · Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:38 pm

LRC315 wrote:
Iberia has scheduled their A346 to operate the route MAD-SJO from December 13th to December 17th and will use their A350-900 from December 18th 2019 until March 28th 2020.

Proposed schedule:

IB 6317 MAD 11.35..15.35 SJO........Daily..359
IB 6314 SJO 17.15....10.25+1 MAD..Daily...359

SunsetLimited · Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:17 pm

NK has been quietly building up MSY to over 20 nonstop destinations. Just wondering if you think they could make a route like MSY-SAP work (just basing that on the fact that it was flown previously), say 3X weekly? They could even have some connecting feed based on the flight times. Any thoughts on this?

2travel2know2 · Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:39 pm

SunsetLimited wrote:
NK has been quietly building up MSY to over 20 nonstop destinations. Just wondering if you think they could make a route like MSY-SAP work (just basing that on the fact that it was flown previously), say 3X weekly? They could even have some connecting feed based on the flight times. Any thoughts on this?

Since Avianca hasn’t shown interest to fly that route, not even SAL-MSY so far, NK should. The P2P market is there.

2travel2know2 · Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:59 am

Enrique Malek Airport (DAV) is preparing to receive new airlines.
News release from Panama Civil Aviation Authority (in Spanish)
https://twitter.com/tocumenaero/status/1157442520646914048?s=20
It mentions U.S. airlines, so who could it be AA from MIA, NK from FLL?
What's odd about DAV is that neither CM nor AV are interested in DAV-SJO, at least for now.

juanchito · Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:31 am

Volaris El Salvador airplane will be N523VL

avi8 · Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:43 am

Great news for SAL. Is there a reason they chose SAL over GUA? I mean, GUA has a larger O/D and pretty much an empty airport.

SJOtoLIR · Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:40 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
neither CM nor AV are interested in DAV-SJO, at least for now.

As far as I know, Air Panama is not flying anymore the PAC-DAV-SJO route as thrice a week with turbo-prop equipment, meaning a 50-seater plane.
Ten years ago, TACA REGIONAL tried unsuccessfully to launch the SJO-DAV sector with ATR-42.
CM DAV-PTY looks like a solid route for Chiriqui province.

Regards.

SJOtoLIR · Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:46 pm

One more point: as some people on the Twitter board wrote, David should sustain non-stop flights to selected cities in Colombia and based purely on the O&D traffic.
Based on the behavior of Wingo at BLB, perhaps DAV might follow the same pattern.
The US mainline carriers could have been watching carefully the possible services to DAV as well.
I’d expect that Flores, Guatemala should also open non-stop flights to the United States.

2travel2know2 · Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:15 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
One more point: as some people on the Twitter board wrote, David should sustain non-stop flights to selected cities in Colombia and based purely on the O&D traffic.
Based on the behavior of Wingo at BLB, perhaps DAV might follow the same pattern.
The US mainline carriers could have been watching carefully the possible services to DAV as well.
I’d expect that Flores, Guatemala should also open non-stop flights to the United States.

IMHO, right now DAV might have the critical mass to support twice weekly flights to MIA (be CM E190 / P5 B73G or AA E175) or FLL (NK).
Also, there're days CM should fly 2 additional PTY-DAV-PTY rotations.

SJOtoLIR · Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:15 pm

Having understood that CM PTY-DAV 14x weekly is focusing its market basically on healthy connections through PTY, the O&D market between Panama City and David is being attended on 5C PAC-DAV instead.
It would be interesting to know where the most CM passengers touching DAV are coming from: Miami, Bogota, Medellin, San Jose, elsewhere ?

SJOtoLIR · Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:29 pm

SunsetLimited wrote:
Just wondering if you think they could make a route like MSY-SAP work

Maybe it’s too late for launching MSY-Central America flights on NK.
The former CO flew steadily MSY-IAH and then IAH-SAP on a daily basis since many years ago. This segment is being operated by UA nowadays, of course.
Even the former TA launched isolated SAP-MSY flights the last decade.
I know about the existence of such market, but it couldn’t operate profitability by now. Just my humble opinion.

Regards.

SJOtoLIR · Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:03 am

UA usually switches the plane coming from EWR to IAH and vice versa, in those Central American cities that experience the dual service towards both Houston and New York/Newark.

SJOtoLIR · Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:39 pm

The administration of LIR is pursing to operate as 24/7 by the end of the year.

juanchito · Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:52 am

The sixth Saab S340 arrived to GUA for Tag Airlines.
This time is a S340B+

avi8 · Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:25 pm

I'm seeing double daily DFW-GUA starting February with one of the flights now being a redeye. Does anyone have any information on this?

LTU932 · Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:56 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
The administration of LIR is pursing to operate as 24/7 by the end of the year.

Do they have enough traffic to justify 24/7 ops? Even SJO de-facto shuts down in the evening but then again, SJO is probably closer to urban areas (Alajuela, San Antonio, Pavas) than LIR is.

SJOtoLIR · Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:22 pm

LTU932 wrote:
Do they have enough traffic to justify 24/7 ops? Even SJO de-facto shuts down in the evening but then again, SJO is probably closer to urban areas (Alajuela, San Antonio, Pavas) than LIR is.

Probably not for the time being.
The only late scheduled-flight that LIR would experience from October 27th is the triangular KL AMS-SJO-LIR-AMS, allowing a departure at 21:15; four days a week.
However, I've just noticed that LIR is acting as a back-up for the diversion procedures from SAL.
This is the sole explanation I can find by now.

Regards.

SJOtoLIR · Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:34 pm

Wingo will begin Panama City - Havana service as shown:

P5 7096...BLB 12.53 - 15.28 HAV...737...Tu, Sa
P5 7097...HAV 16.28 - 19.18 BLB...737...Tu, Sa
Effective: November 02

CM PTY-PBM 2x weekly will temporarily operate these flights from 73G to 738.
Effective: Sptember 04 - October 02

SJOtoLIR · Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:03 pm

Due to Hurricane Dorian, Orlando is seeing so far a lot of cancelations, affecting the following flights touching Central America from September 03rd: NK GUA-MCO, NK MCO-SAL, NK MCO-SAP, NK MCO-PTY, CM PTY-MCO, B6 MCO-SJO and NK MCO-SJO.
Same in Ft. Lauderdale: NK FLL-GUA, NK FLL-SAL, NK FLL-SAP, NK FLL-MGA, NK FLL-PTY, CM PTY-FLL, WN FLL-SJO, NK FLL-SJO and B6 FLL-SJO.
Both MCO and FLL were totally closed.

avi8 · Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:48 pm

Any news regarding Volaris El Salvador? I’ve seen pictures of an A320 with the El Salvador flag but haven’t heard any news regarding flight schedules.

juanchito · Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:22 pm

Just one certification flight has been done.
SAL-GUA-GDL-GUA-SAL

avi8 wrote:
Any news regarding Volaris El Salvador? I’ve seen pictures of an A320 with the El Salvador flag but haven’t heard any news regarding flight schedules.

snaiks · Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:09 am

SJOtoLIR wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:

CM DAV-PTY looks like a solid route for Chiriqui province.

Regards.

IMHO and experience is that CM flight to DAV Is very unreliable, there are a lot of cancelations and/or delays in that flight.
I've had 3 cancelations this year and one was while being inside the plane

2travel2know2 · Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:50 pm

snaiks wrote:
SJOtoLIR wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:

CM DAV-PTY looks like a solid route for Chiriqui province.

Regards.

IMHO and experience is that CM flight to DAV Is very unreliable, there are a lot of cancelations and/or delays in that flight.
I've had 3 cancelations this year and one was while being inside the plane

Lots of people still would fly CM to DAV as 7P is still more unreliable than CM and many want a quick way to reach CM Connect Miles status.

snaiks · Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:39 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
snaiks wrote:
SJOtoLIR wrote:

IMHO and experience is that CM flight to DAV Is very unreliable, there are a lot of cancelations and/or delays in that flight.
I've had 3 cancelations this year and one was while being inside the plane
Lots of people still would fly CM to DAV as 7P is still more unreliable than CM and many want a quick way to reach CM Connect Miles status.

Tell me about it I'm 65 miles shy of platinum

As per CM pilots "gossip" they don't care if the flight goes out or not. Priotlrity is intl flights first. Then DAV.

2travel2know2 · Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:41 am

snaiks wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
snaiks wrote:
IMHO and experience is that CM flight to DAV Is very unreliable, there are a lot of cancelations and/or delays in that flight.
I've had 3 cancelations this year and one was while being inside the plane
Lots of people still would fly CM to DAV as 7P is still more unreliable than CM and many want a quick way to reach CM Connect Miles status.

Tell me about it I'm 65 miles shy of platinum
As per CM pilots "gossip" they don't care if the flight goes out or not. Priotlrity is intl flights first. Then DAV.

Only pilots from DAV would care.. specially since CM could squeeze a PTY-DAV-PTY in 150 minutes aircraft use.

2travel2know2 · Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:16 pm

Looking at how often CM is desperately promoting it, IMHO, unless CM gets Brazilians and Argentinians to fly over-there like they do to SNU, next CM destination to be "suspended" might as well be PVR.
And B.T.W. I do see a chance for FOR and CUC making it back to CM destinations in the very near future.

LightChop2Chop · Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:36 pm

I had to book a ticket BOG PTY BZE yesterday (for travel tomorrow) and BZE segments are packed. Maybe CM needs to add more service there. I had heard from a colleague that goes to BZE often that the E190s are routinely full and they have been using the 73G occasionally. He mentioned that he sees a lot of "Los Mennonitas" on it heading to Bolivia. Giving up the horse and buggy for a jet engine and wings I guess.

As for PVR. Argentina and Brazilian economies are in the toilet. Will be hard to get passengers from there to go anywhere except the cheapest resorts for the time being.

2travel2know2 · Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:27 am

LightChop2Chop wrote:
I had to book a ticket BOG PTY BZE yesterday (for travel tomorrow) and BZE segments are packed. Maybe CM needs to add more service there. I had heard from a colleague that goes to BZE often that the E190s are routinely full and they have been using the 73G occasionally. He mentioned that he sees a lot of "Los Mennonitas" on it heading to Bolivia. Giving up the horse and buggy for a jet engine and wings I guess.

There has been rumours about extra BZE frequencies soon because demand from South America but the question is when CM will add them.

As for PVR. Argentina and Brazilian economies are in the toilet. Will be hard to get passengers from there to go anywhere except the cheapest resorts for the time being.

PTY-PVR-PVR isn't a +/- 180 minute rotation like PTY-LIR-PTY or PTY-ADZ-PTY. Surely CM could find a nearer destination to fly that frame with better loads than PVR.
CM hasn't done that great in its newest Mexican destinations, maybe it's time to evaluate which destinations not currently flown really have a demand from PTY hub passengers.
I could only guess TLC might work from PTY specific days per week/season, as TLC potential passengers could be considered to MEX what FLL's are to MIA.

SJOtoLIR · Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:44 am

Air Europa is eyeing the [MAD-SJO] service for 2020.

WN BZE-DEN will terminate their flights on January 04th.

LightChop2Chop · Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:10 am

WN is suspending not only DEN BZE but many many weekend / sat only flights due to the Max issues (they had done a release on this some time ago). Most of them should come back once that issues resolves. I quick check on the available diio data on DEN BZE shows LFs were very good (90%+) and avg fares were high. I suspect that one will be back unless another carrier jumps in.

2travel2know2 · Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:32 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
Air Europa is eyeing the [MAD-SJO] service for 2020.

Wagers open on how high is the % of connecting passengers to/from SJO on UX MAD-PTY-MAD flights.

Kilgen · Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:52 pm

Well, Air Europa is increasing fx to PTY next year:
From 4x to 6x starting March 29, and daily starting on June 20.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/286383/air-europa-s20-long-haul-frequency-increases-as-of-13sep19/

SJOtoLIR · Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:45 am

juanchito wrote:
The sixth Saab S340 arrived to GUA for Tag Airlines.
This time is a S340B+

I’ve just checked the departure board of Guatemala City and TAG flies the GUA-FRS sector up to 5x daily.
This pattern could be supplied with only two Saab 340s.
My question is: where have all their remaining planes gone, including the Embraer 145 ?

Regards.

SJOtoLIR · Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:57 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
how high is the % of connecting passengers to/from SJO on UX MAD-PTY-MAD flights.

Fortaleza is an interesting station for airlines like TAP, Air France, Air Europa and Cabo Verde Airlines where they’re all flying there.
CM PTY-FOR 2x weekly ended up in
August 2019 and perhaps their operational costs for such “long-haul” route out of PTY didn’t match to the demand of passengers in their 737s.
With respect to the proportion of SJO passengers on UX PTY-MAD, it’s likely the same philosophy for the opening of LH FRA-SJO, KL AMS-SJO and AF CDG-SJO. Speaking about our geographical scenario, these airlines initially operated at PTY where CM is steadily supplying code-share services on behalf of them for the traffic heading to San Jose and others.
By the way, CM is also transporting UX travelers to SAL, GUA and SJO through Panama City.

Regards

LTU932 · Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

SJOtoLIR wrote:
Air Europa is eyeing the [MAD-SJO] service for 2020.

While UX has better chances of making MAD-SJO work (unlike Air Madrid and Air Comet), without them being IB, I'm skeptical.

SJOtoLIR · Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:06 am

If UX MAD-SJO should happen later, it would operate with limited weekly frequencies from the very beginning.
Based on the Panama City scenario, UX MAD-PTY goes to daily in 2020, in spite of IB MAD-PTY 7x weekly. That means two daily flights linking the MAD-PTY sector.
However, PTY has the advantage of Copa Airlines offering code-share flights on behalf of all the European airlines landing there.

juanchito · Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:27 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
juanchito wrote:
The sixth Saab S340 arrived to GUA for Tag Airlines.
This time is a S340B+

I’ve just checked the departure board of Guatemala City and TAG flies the GUA-FRS sector up to 5x daily.
This pattern could be supplied with only two Saab 340s.
My question is: where have all their remaining planes gone, including the Embraer 145 ?

Regards.

2 daily GUA-SAL
2 daily GUA-SAP
1 daily GUA-PBR
1 daily GUA-TGU
2 daily SAP-TGU (on behave of CM Airlines)
2 daily SAP-RTB (on behave of CM Airlines)
2 daily TGU-RTB (on behave of CM Airlines)

SJOtoLIR · Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:53 pm

The local media had already posted the intended services of Air Europa in Costa Rica:

https://www.larepublica.net/noticia/air-europa-conectaria-a-san-jose-con-madrid-a-partir-del-proximo-ano

LTU932 · Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:47 am

So, as some of y'all may have noticed, the Thomas Cook Group is filing for administration in the UK, which may mean doom and gloom for Condor. In case that DE indeed has to fold, would LH step in with a frequency increase for FRA-SJO, or maybe even the launch of a nonstop MUC-SJO? Or would LH instead opt to do the same as I proposed but to PTY? Or would Edelweiss increase its frequencies to SJO via ZRH?

DE has invested a lot into SJO over the years in connecting Germany and Costa Rica at least for O&D traffic (tourists and VFR), and it would be a shame that, even if they do get dragged into the Thomas Cook bankruptcy, they'd have to end service to SJO without anyone replacing them.

Avianca · Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:27 pm

LTU932 wrote:
So, as some of y'all may have noticed, the Thomas Cook Group is filing for administration in the UK, which may mean doom and gloom for Condor. In case that DE indeed has to fold, would LH step in with a frequency increase for FRA-SJO, or maybe even the launch of a nonstop MUC-SJO? Or would LH instead opt to do the same as I proposed but to PTY? Or would Edelweiss increase its frequencies to SJO via ZRH?

DE has invested a lot into SJO over the years in connecting Germany and Costa Rica at least for O&D traffic (tourists and VFR), and it would be a shame that, even if they do get dragged into the Thomas Cook bankruptcy, they'd have to end service to SJO without anyone replacing them.

would love to see LH linking my current home town - SJO with my city of bird MUC - but dont think so.

most logical would be that Edelweiss increase by 2 weekly frequencys as well LH would do the same.

SJOtoLIR · Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:36 am

LTU932 wrote:
Thomas Cook Group is filing for administration in the UK, which may mean doom and gloom for Condor. In case that DE indeed has to fold, would LH step in with a frequency increase for FRA-SJO, or maybe even the launch of a nonstop MUC-SJO?.

I've recently read in some non-official sources that the operations of the subsidiary Condor Flugdienst wouldn't be affected by the demise of Thomas Cook grouping.
Related to the Central American landscape, DE FRA-SDQ-PTY and DE FRA-SDQ-SJO may operate normally. Time will tell.
Condor ever flew from Munich as DE MUC-PUJ-SJO in November 2016. This flight didn't last too much in service.

Regards.

Kilgen · Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:30 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
LTU932 wrote:
Thomas Cook Group is filing for administration in the UK, which may mean doom and gloom for Condor. In case that DE indeed has to fold, would LH step in with a frequency increase for FRA-SJO, or maybe even the launch of a nonstop MUC-SJO?.

I've recently read in some non-official sources that the operations of the subsidiary Condor Flugdienst wouldn't be affected by the demise of Thomas Cook grouping.
Related to the Central American landscape, DE FRA-SDQ-PTY and DE FRA-SDQ-SJO may operate normally. Time will tell.
Condor ever flew from Munich as DE MUC-PUJ-SJO in November 2016. This flight didn't last too much in service.

Regards.

DE no longer flies FRA-SDQ-PTY. They have codeshares with CM that does the SDQ-PTY leg. I think they stopped flying to PTY when LH started their direct flights.

LTU932 · Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:15 pm

Kilgen wrote:
DE no longer flies FRA-SDQ-PTY. They have codeshares with CM that does the SDQ-PTY leg. I think they stopped flying to PTY when LH started their direct flights.

I knew that, although DE still flies to SJO despite LH's flights.

I'm pessimistic about DE's future. I hear that they need a 200 million Euro cash injection to survive from another thread, and it's unlikely there will be a government bailout. The German federal government doesn't do illegal airline bailouts like the Italian government did with AZ. I'm afraid it's a matter of time until the DE fleet gets grounded and they're forced to file for bankruptcy. Condor needs a new investor, and they need it yesterday.

2travel2know2 · Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:13 pm

LTU932 wrote:
So, as some of y'all may have noticed, the Thomas Cook Group is filing for administration in the UK, which may mean doom and gloom for Condor. In case that DE indeed has to fold, would LH step in with a frequency increase for FRA-SJO, or maybe even the launch of a nonstop MUC-SJO? Or would LH instead opt to do the same as I proposed but to PTY? Or would Edelweiss increase its frequencies to SJO via ZRH?

IMHO, If DE stops SJO and LH is to take over, chances are LH group would rather prefer to link hubs on both sides before a dedicated Europe - SJO.
So there might be chances of MUC-PTY, ZRH-PTY or even BRU-PTY happening.

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