danipawa wrote:

Northwest1988 wrote:

danipawa wrote:

World Atlantic is taking 2 MD83 ex Allegiant..nice to see them flying again

That’s awesome! Any idea of tail numbers?

N876GA and N872GA

Wow, this is a nice surprise.

N876GA is fairly unused: https://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx
Put in tail # 876GA or 872GA
and a date range.
N872GA has quite a few more cycles.


Lightsaber

ABE is two miles from me, and Allegiant plans to begin a two aircraft base operations at ABE on February 12, 2020. It will be the airline's 18th aircraft base in the country. The base means two planes will stay at ABE overnight, so flights can leave earlier and arrive later, creating more options for passengers.

Without Allegiant our local airport would only have regional jets flying to hubs (ATL,ORD, PHL, CLT, DET) and we have 650,000 in the urban area. Not a big place, but not the total boonies.

So bottom line, given the two hour drive and parking to a major airport, it is always cheaper and easier to pay all of Allegiant's fees if we are headed to seven non-stop routes: Fort Lauderdale, Orlando/Sanford, St. Pete-Clearwater and Punta Gorda, Florida; Myrtle Beach, South Carolina; Nashville, Tennessee; and Savannah, Georgia.

If they multiply that by dozens of small airports they can run a fairly competition-free business.

PacoMartin wrote:

...
If they multiply that by dozens of small airports they can run a fairly competition-free business.

Allegiant is notoriously competition-averse. Of their 450 or so city pairs only about 100 have competition.

I sometimes peruse their Facebook page and I get a chuckle from how frequently I’ll see folks posting comments in vain on there to the effect of ‘Please please please fly from [insert some mega metro area] to [insert some mega metro area]’. I guess a lot of people really don’t understand their business model. They operate like no other US airline - but they are very good at what they do from the perspective of being highly profitable and very consistently so.

flybaby wrote:

I sometimes peruse their Facebook page and I get a chuckle from how frequently I’ll see folks posting comments in vain on there to the effect of ‘Please please please fly from [insert some mega metro area] to [insert some mega metro area]’. I guess a lot of people really don’t understand their business model. They operate like no other US airline - but they are very good at what they do from the perspective of being highly profitable and very consistently so.

In the past when I look at their route map, only cities in the warm regions were highlighted as "destinations". Now I see EWR, BWI, BNA, and OAK are highlighted.

I am wondering if their business model of flying from colder tiny airports to warm cities is running out of options. I am hoping they start flying longer routes than Las Vegas to Knoxville 1,734 statute miles.

PacoMartin wrote:

flybaby wrote:

I sometimes peruse their Facebook page and I get a chuckle from how frequently I’ll see folks posting comments in vain on there to the effect of ‘Please please please fly from [insert some mega metro area] to [insert some mega metro area]’. I guess a lot of people really don’t understand their business model. They operate like no other US airline - but they are very good at what they do from the perspective of being highly profitable and very consistently so.

In the past when I look at their route map, only cities in the warm regions were highlighted as "destinations". Now I see EWR, BWI, BNA, and OAK are highlighted.

I am wondering if their business model of flying from colder tiny airports to warm cities is running out of options. I am hoping they start flying longer routes than Las Vegas to Knoxville 1,734 statute miles.

I guess their latest line of thinking is that “touristy” now means “destination” even if it’s not a warm weather destination. The key though is that their basic modus operendi, i.e., to where they fly to from those places hasn’t really changed, i.e., they still don’t fly from say EWR to to FLL or MCI or CLE, instead it’s to places like AVL, VPS or TYS. This is as opposed to say Frontier or Spirit which love to dip into the mega metro to mega metro routes quite a bit.

Now I am sure that at some point they begin to “run out of options”, however, I think there probably is quite a bit medium size to medium size opportunities for them to explore once they exhaust the small to mega metro areas options.

flybaby wrote:

Now I am sure that at some point they begin to “run out of options”, however, I think there probably is quite a bit medium size to medium size opportunities for them to explore once they exhaust the small to mega metro areas options.

The Operating bases list according to Wikipedia is not formally divided into "origins" and "destinations", but it seems as if they would be divided like this:

Origins
Asheville
Bellingham
Cincinnati
Grand Rapids
Indianapolis
Knoxville
Pittsburgh

Destinations
Fort Walton Beach
Fort Lauderdale
Las Vegas
Los Angeles
Oakland
Orlando/Sanford
Phoenix/Mesa
Punta Gorda
Savannah, GA
St. Petersburg (FL)

Myrtle Beach (seasonal)

They have stretched the "origin-destination" model a little bit with flights like OAK-PHX.

It looks like Allegiant keeps it's 93 jets in 17 airports. I don't know in how many airports Southwest's 700+ jets spend the night.

^I thought Nashville was one.

As for WN I think almost all USA airports have overnights. Small stations usually have a really late arrival and early departure.

On the last public quarterly earnings call, they mentioned they still have 500+ city pairs that meet the potential for future routes.

Does anyone know’s how many aircraft are assigned to each origins/destination? I would assume that LAS & SFB has the most aircraft with more flights.

flybaby wrote:

PacoMartin wrote:

...
If they multiply that by dozens of small airports they can run a fairly competition-free business.

Allegiant is notoriously competition-averse. Of their 450 or so city pairs only about 100 have competition.

I sometimes peruse their Facebook page and I get a chuckle from how frequently I’ll see folks posting comments in vain on there to the effect of ‘Please please please fly from [insert some mega metro area] to [insert some mega metro area]’. I guess a lot of people really don’t understand their business model. They operate like no other US airline - but they are very good at what they do from the perspective of being highly profitable and very consistently so.

And how many of those pairs have Vegas and Sanford as part of it. You know mega vacay spots.

Wonder how many markets actually support Allegiant, Frontier, Spirit and Southwest on the same market at the same time.

You have 3 out of 4 at MEM and if Spirit ever started up there and included MCO, I would assume one would drop it.

WaywardMemphian wrote:

flybaby wrote:

PacoMartin wrote:

...
If they multiply that by dozens of small airports they can run a fairly competition-free business.

Allegiant is notoriously competition-averse. Of their 450 or so city pairs only about 100 have competition.

I sometimes peruse their Facebook page and I get a chuckle from how frequently I’ll see folks posting comments in vain on there to the effect of ‘Please please please fly from [insert some mega metro area] to [insert some mega metro area]’. I guess a lot of people really don’t understand their business model. They operate like no other US airline - but they are very good at what they do from the perspective of being highly profitable and very consistently so.

And how many of those pairs have Vegas and Sanford as part of it. You know mega vacay spots.

Wonder how many markets actually support Allegiant, Frontier, Spirit and Southwest on the same market at the same time.

You have 3 out of 4 at MEM and if Spirit ever started up there and included MCO, I would assume one would drop it.

G4 F9 NK and WN all serve AUS-LAS.

Sean-SAN- wrote:

On the last public quarterly earnings call, they mentioned they still have 500+ city pairs that meet the potential for future routes.

Well, not much expansion there.


By the time they try half those routes they'll identify 500+ more, probably half of that due to demand growth.

Lightsaber

Allegiant's Investor Day is Wednesday November 13. We'll see what information shows up in the presentations.

WaywardMemphian wrote:

flybaby wrote:

PacoMartin wrote:

...
If they multiply that by dozens of small airports they can run a fairly competition-free business.

Allegiant is notoriously competition-averse. Of their 450 or so city pairs only about 100 have competition.

I sometimes peruse their Facebook page and I get a chuckle from how frequently I’ll see folks posting comments in vain on there to the effect of ‘Please please please fly from [insert some mega metro area] to [insert some mega metro area]’. I guess a lot of people really don’t understand their business model. They operate like no other US airline - but they are very good at what they do from the perspective of being highly profitable and very consistently so.

And how many of those pairs have Vegas and Sanford as part of it. You know mega vacay spots.

Wonder how many markets actually support Allegiant, Frontier, Spirit and Southwest on the same market at the same time.

You have 3 out of 4 at MEM and if Spirit ever started up there and included MCO, I would assume one would drop it.

CMH/LCK have all four to MCO/SFB. DL also runs a Saturday-only E175. During Spring Break, it peaks at something like 11 flights between Columbus and Orlando.

DeltaRules wrote:

WaywardMemphian wrote:

flybaby wrote:

Allegiant is notoriously competition-averse. Of their 450 or so city pairs only about 100 have competition.

I sometimes peruse their Facebook page and I get a chuckle from how frequently I’ll see folks posting comments in vain on there to the effect of ‘Please please please fly from [insert some mega metro area] to [insert some mega metro area]’. I guess a lot of people really don’t understand their business model. They operate like no other US airline - but they are very good at what they do from the perspective of being highly profitable and very consistently so.

And how many of those pairs have Vegas and Sanford as part of it. You know mega vacay spots.

Wonder how many markets actually support Allegiant, Frontier, Spirit and Southwest on the same market at the same time.

You have 3 out of 4 at MEM and if Spirit ever started up there and included MCO, I would assume one would drop it.

CMH/LCK have all four to MCO/SFB. DL also runs a Saturday-only E175. During Spring Break, it peaks at something like 11 flights between Columbus and Orlando.

Delta runs the SB special from MEM as well.

http://ir.allegiantair.com/news-release ... res-low-55
New routes
BNA-GPT/ATW/DSM
PGD-RIC
SRQ-ABE

http://ir.allegiantair.com/static-files ... f510573ad7

Allegiant investor day slides:

Interesting point discussed is that any airport with 20+ departures per week is a candidate for a base.

Plus this was another interesting slide:

What is the mid continent base strategy?

Does Nashville really have that many destinations?

-I've been surprised they haven't plopped a base down at LCK given some of the more off-the-beaten-path places they have them and that they essentially have the entire airport to themselves.
-Allegiant Nonstop seems like a fascinating concept: an airline-sponsored Dave and Buster's?
-It looks like they're going to run extra segments to/from LAX and OAK for Raiders games for season ticket holders once they move to Las Vegas?

william wrote:

What is the mid continent base strategy?

Does Nashville really have that many destinations?

Mid-Con strategy has a few facets:
1. If you follow G4's business model they have flights that originate from bases in the morning, however, from places like PGD that means that there are no new departing flights until the early morning flights return to the base around 11am-1pm. In other words, G4s flights from an airport like PGD all leave from around 6-8am in the morning, and most won't return until after 11am, meaning their infrastructure in PGD is getting underused for at least a couple hours of prime time of the day for flights. Now, with more mid-con bases they can have flights from the CVG base leave at 6am and arrive at 8-9am in PGD, and can now allow for flights leaving PGD between 9-11am. In short, it allows for better utilization of its bases in Florida

2. As referenced in the picture above, having all these bases in the midwest allows for quick response times for IROPS, which can be a big problem in the midwest from December-March.

3. Diversification of their network can occur, as in the past they were almost exclusively an airline offering small cities service to LAS/AZA/LAX/Florida. Now, focusing on mid-continent basing they can try out service that would be very difficult without a base, ex: CVG-PVD, IND-TUS, BNA-ATW, e.t.c

4. Fixed-fee potential, they can now easily deploy aircraft for charter services. This is especially key because charter service heavily ramps up during Late-August/September during peak college football season, which happens to be a time when they have many underutilized aircraft due to weak leisure demand.

DeltaRules wrote:

-I've been surprised they haven't plopped a base down at LCK given some of the more off-the-beaten-path places they have them and that they essentially have the entire airport to themselves.
-Allegiant Nonstop seems like a fascinating concept: an airline-sponsored Dave and Buster's?
-It looks like they're going to run extra segments to/from LAX and OAK for Raiders games for season ticket holders once they move to Las Vegas?

The reason they have bases in some of the smaller destinations is the fact that they are the only game in town or close to it, G4 can run some flights with much higher frequency if there is little to no presence of WN in the market. CMH likely has a strong influence over G4 at LCK, but I'd assume a base for LCK is in the near future, they are getting 12 new aircraft in 2020, and 10 new aircraft in 2021 & 2022.

One other thing I found interesting was the "flight pass" that will be tested in BNA and CVG in 2020. From what I heard, passengers will get a discount in return for purchasing a "flight pass" to redeem on 8 or so flights in the future. Not exactly sure how that will work....

FAA re-registration is in process for four Aeroflot A320s at OSR; VP-BDK/N236NV, VP-BWD/N237NV, VP-BWE/ N238NV, VP-BWF/N238NV and one Frontier A320 at TPA N221FR/N277NV. This will bring the count to 60 x A320 on property at Allegiant.

jgcotter wrote:

FAA re-registration is in process for four Aeroflot A320s at OSR; VP-BDK/N236NV, VP-BWD/N237NV, VP-BWE/ N238NV, VP-BWF/N238NV and one Frontier A320 at TPA N221FR/N277NV. This will bring the count to 60 x A320 on property at Allegiant.

Correction: VP-BWF/N239NV

According to the latest Allegiant 8-K, published on 12 November 2019, the airline currently plans:

2019E: 30 Y177 A320, 25 Y186 A320 (total A320 fleet: 55)
2020E: 26 Y177 A320, 41 Y186 A320 (total A320 fleet: 67)
2021E: 15 Y177 A320, 62 Y186 A320 (total A320 fleet: 77)
2022E: 15 Y177 A320, 72 Y186 A320 (total A320 fleet: 87)

The A320 fleet currently stands at 55, matching the projection above for end-of-year - does anyone have a breakdown of which 30x A320s are still in the Y177 configuration vs Y186, please?

bmibaby737 wrote:

According to the latest Allegiant 8-K, published on 12 November 2019, the airline currently plans:

2019E: 30 Y177 A320, 25 Y186 A320 (total A320 fleet: 55)
2020E: 26 Y177 A320, 41 Y186 A320 (total A320 fleet: 67)
2021E: 15 Y177 A320, 62 Y186 A320 (total A320 fleet: 77)
2022E: 15 Y177 A320, 72 Y186 A320 (total A320 fleet: 87)

The A320 fleet currently stands at 55, matching the projection above for end-of-year - does anyone have a breakdown of which 30x A320s are still in the Y177 configuration vs Y186, please?

I don't know which aircraft remain to be converted.

But Allegiant has previously said that A320s manufactured before 2000 could not be modified. I don't know the specific manufacturing cut off date that applies. They have about 17 or 18 aircraft manufactured in 2000 or earlier.

G4 has 20 A320 seating 177 looks like date of MFG was before 1997/8 to around 2000/01 per planespotters.

Any word on if G4 got approval for Mexico service and if so when would they announce it?

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The DOT approved Allegiant's application for Mexico back in May.
http://www.regulations.gov/contentStreamer?documentId=DOT-OST-2019-0067-0002&attachmentNumber=1&contentType=pdf

But I have heard nothing since then.

https://twitter.com/Allegiant/status/12 ... 4592582657

New Allegiant special. Can't seem to see the tail number from this photo. If anyone knows please reply below.

N258NV caught it in Philly yesterday

New Allegiant special. Can't seem to see the tail number from this photo. If anyone knows please reply below.[/quote]

The FAA has completed re-registration of VP-BDK as N236NV. It’s still at OSR and should ferry soon.

The FAA has completed re-registration of N221FR as N277NV. It’s still at TPA and should ferry soon.

A320 N236NV is en route From OSR-KEF-BGR-BQN.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N236NV

The FAA has completed re-registration of VP-BWD as N237NV. It’s still at OSR and should ferry soon.

The FAA has completed re-registration of four Avianca Brazil A320s at GYR: PR-AVP/N609AC/N292NV; PR-AVQ/N618AC/N293NV; PR-AVR/N628AC/N294NV; PR-AVU/N632AC/N295NV. N292NV has ferried to VQQ. This brings the count to 64 x A320 on property at Allegiant.

There are a few more nonstop routes that could be added by G4 out of FLL such as FLL-DSM, FLL-OKC, FLL-OMA, and FLL-TUL with DSM, OKC, OMA, and TUL being four of the top domestic destinations that do not currently have nonstop service to FLL.

A320 N237NV ferried OSR-KEF-BGR-LCQ 19-20 Dec on delivery.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N237NV

Thepointsguy.com took a look at Allegiant's longest and shortest flights.

The longest was CVG – LAX at 1,900 miles
The shortest was FAT-LAS at 258 miles (also Allegiant's first route and the longest continuously operated route at Allegiant)

The full article is at http://thepointsguy.com/news/longest-shortest-allegiant-air-flights/

Longest
Cincinnati (CVG) – Los Angeles (LAX): 1,900 miles
Las Vegas (LAS) – Knoxville (TYS): 1,739 miles
Cincinnati (CVG) – Las Vegas (LAS): 1,678 miles
Grand Rapids, Michigan (GRR) – Las Vegas (LAS): 1,628 miles
Bismarck, North Dakota (BIS) – Orlando Sanford (SFB): 1,628 miles
Los Angeles (LAX) – Memphis (MEM): 1,619 miles
Mesa/Phoenix (IWA) – Traverse City, Michigan (TVC): 1,599 miles
Las Vegas (LAS) – South Bend, Indiana (SBN): 1,590 miles
Indianapolis (IND) – Las Vegas (LAS): 1,590 miles
Fort Wayne, Indiana (FWA) – Mesa/Phoenix (IWA): 1,562 miles

Shortest
Fresno (FAT) – Las Vegas (LAS): 258 miles
Mesa/Phoenix (IWA) – Las Vegas (LAS): 276 miles
Las Vegas (LAS) – Santa Maria, California (SMX): 309 miles
Las Vegas (LAS) – Reno (RNO): 345 miles
Las Vegas (LAS) – Stockton, California (SCK): 358 miles
Las Vegas (LAS) – Monterey, California (MRY): 375 miles
Knoxville (TYS) – Destin-Fort Walton Beach, Florida (VPS): 395 miles
Las Vegas (LAS) – Oakland (OAK): 407 miles
Grand Junction, Colorado (GJT) – Las Vegas (LAS): 413 miles
Asheville, North Carolina (AVL) – Baltimore (BWI): 414 miles

Keep an eye out, Mexico is now appearing on the G4 route map

Could Routes America be where they announce Mexico?

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ibthebigd wrote:

Could Routes America be where they announce Mexico?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I'm assuming it will have its own announcement, could be wrong though

Will G4 try to get any more high-density A319s? Also what are the odds they pick up some A321s?

Midwestindy wrote:

Keep an eye out, Mexico is now appearing on the G4 route map

Any ideas on where they could potentially start service?

I would guess bases first. PIT, IND, CVG, BNA, FLL, and maybe ABE and GRR if they have an FIS and available CBP staff. Other options would be closer in middle America airports that fit into a W pattern without it being a long crew day and also have an FIS/CBP.

PIA built a small customs ready terminal specifically designed for G4 flights to Mexico.

PVD757 wrote:

I would guess bases first. PIT, IND, CVG, BNA, FLL, and maybe ABE and GRR if they have an FIS and available CBP staff. Other options would be closer in middle America airports that fit into a W pattern without it being a long crew day and also have an FIS/CBP.

G4 doesn’t do connections though. They will add service wherever they see the demand.

A few years ago when discussing Mexico, G4 execs said they were considering customs stops at an intermediate airport on the returns for some cities. Not the best solution but opens up more potential cities than just those with a current FIS.

In the application for international service, G4 wrote:

More specifically, under both its certificate and exemption applications, Allegiant requests authority to engage in
(1) scheduled foreign air transportation of persons, property and mail
(a) from a point or points in the United States to a point or points in Mexico,
(b) from Dallas/Fort Worth and San Antonio to Mexico City, Toluca, and Acapulco, and beyond to points in Panama and beyond,
(c) from New York, Washington, Baltimore, Los Angeles, and Houston, to Mexico City and Toluca, and beyond to a point or points in Central and/or South America, and
(d) from a point or points in the United States, via an intermediate point or points, to a point or points in Mexico, and beyond, as mutually agreed in writing by the aeronautical authorities of the U.S. and Mexico; and
(2) scheduled foreign air transportation of property and mail
(a) from a point or points in the United States, via an intermediate point or points, to a point or points in Mexico, and beyond, and
(b) from a point or points in Mexico to any point.
http://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2019-0067-0001

They listed a few large US and Mexico cities, but in the above application they do mention several times also operating "via an intermediate point or points" between the US and Mexico.

I expect cities with a current FIS are leading candidates. But I will not be surprised to see a current G4 city with a larger number of Allegiant flights but no FIS to also show up in a Mexico service list using a customs stop.

WeatherPilot wrote:

PVD757 wrote:

I would guess bases first. PIT, IND, CVG, BNA, FLL, and maybe ABE and GRR if they have an FIS and available CBP staff. Other options would be closer in middle America airports that fit into a W pattern without it being a long crew day and also have an FIS/CBP.

G4 doesn’t do connections though. They will add service wherever they see the demand.

I made no mention of connections though.

I believe they said early in 2019 that they would like to have Mexico for sale by the end of the year. I suspect there will be an announcement soon with Mexico now showing up on the route map. I think IND, CVG, PIT, SFB and PIE would all be very reasonable first routes to Mexico. It will be interesting to see if any of their small airports get some Mexico love.

SBN added their FIS due to G4 as well. There is and has been alleged talks that G4 will do a Mexico flight and eventually a Bahamas one.

Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1438059

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