I agree^. Walmart.com is significantly better than a year ago, and they will ship items that Amazon (probably AMZ Marketplace rather than Amazon itself) won't ship to Hawaii. Packaging for glass container goods has also improved.. That Pickle Guy olive muffalata!

WPvsMW wrote:

I agree^. Walmart.com is significantly better than a year ago, and they will ship items that Amazon (probably AMZ Marketplace rather than Amazon itself) won't ship to Hawaii. Packaging for glass container goods has also improved.. That Pickle Guy olive muffalata!

Ha! I have a policy: I will buy the Great Value brand only if I like it better or at least as much as the national brand. I have found so many GV things that I love. One of them is spaghetti sauce and one of them is their pickles, which are awesome! Both come in glass containers. It was totally hit or miss until recently whether the whole box would be contaminated with pickle juice or sauce. Now, very reliably packaged.

BTW, I started ordering from Walmart on-line years ago, when our City Council caved to the Groceryworker's Union and wouldn't allow them to open anywhere in the 5 boros of NYC, based on a lot of faux virtuous nonsense that also would have applied to Home Depot, Target and K-Mart, all of which have myriad stores in NYC. So it was my way to stick it to the man. Get the Walmart price and have it delivered to my door for free. Not bad. Now that the online is more expensive than the store, it's still just way too convenient, although if both it and Amazon have it, I usually order from Amazon (non-Marketplace) because it's more-reliable and sensibly-packed. But now the Walmart service has really improved.

yochai wrote:

If no delays, the last ex Air NZ 763 for 30 West, N830WE is due into TLV on Wednesday morning from ILN.

And it's now in HNL, having flown in from Alice Springs. Presumably going to ILN before TLV.

Anyone want to speculate on how Atlas will replace the lost frame?

N328KF wrote:

Anyone want to speculate on how Atlas will replace the lost frame?

For now, probably nothing. They had 2 maintenance spares that were Atlas-owned not Amazon-dry-leased. It is really a question whether Amazon wants to dry-lease another aircraft. If they want to, they could dry-lease one of the aircraft that is currently a maintenance spare. Over time, if Atlas needs to add a frame, presumably they will either send one for conversion or buy one that has already been converted. Or Amazon could even dry-lease one from CAM and give it to Atlas to operate. All sorts of options. My best guess is that Atlas immediately began covering 1217A with a maintenance spare, and Amazon will in the long run dry-lease another aircraft from Andromeda (Atlas subsidiary), either one of the two maintenance spares or a newly-converted one. Boeing can turn a BCF around in less than 4 months. (Atlas ordered a number of BCFs because they wanted to convert some wingletted 767-300 feestock -- like N1217A -- right away, and only Boeing had an STC to do 767-300s with winglets, not because they are per-se in love with the more-expensive BCF. IAI now has such an STC, so Atlas would presumably seek to use IAI first, if Atlas is willing to wait a couple months longer.)

N382CM (formerly N930WE, the first of 3 ex-NZ aircraft to be converted by CAM after being purchased from 30West, who purchased them from ANZ) moved from ILN to CVG today under its new registration, and on the ATI certificate.

Acey says it will be used for now for general ATI business. We will see what they do with it. It goes into paint in about 2 months, maybe then for Amazon, but they will do something with it in the meantime. It has been sitting, converted, at ILN since 12/27/18.

N830WE inbound to ILN from HNL.

wjcandee wrote:

N382CM (formerly N930WE, the first of 3 ex-NZ aircraft to be converted by CAM after being purchased from 30West, who purchased them from ANZ) moved from ILN to CVG today under its new registration, and on the ATI certificate.

Acey says it will be used for now for general ATI business. We will see what they do with it. It goes into paint in about 2 months, maybe then for Amazon, but they will do something with it in the meantime. It has been sitting, converted, at ILN since 12/27/18.

Insight as to why at ILN for so long? Just not needed in the system or getting some stuff worked one?

Spacepope wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

N382CM (formerly N930WE, the first of 3 ex-NZ aircraft to be converted by CAM after being purchased from 30West, who purchased them from ANZ) moved from ILN to CVG today under its new registration, and on the ATI certificate.

Acey says it will be used for now for general ATI business. We will see what they do with it. It goes into paint in about 2 months, maybe then for Amazon, but they will do something with it in the meantime. It has been sitting, converted, at ILN since 12/27/18.

Insight as to why at ILN for so long? Just not needed in the system or getting some stuff worked one?

They usually get worked on. Avionics are something they work on during this time.

382 doesn’t have the flat panel display system installed yet; it will be completed at the next C check. The reason being that 382 was slated to go elsewhere until Amazon signed for the additional five frames in 2019, so there was a scramble to get aircraft on property. 382 was the one that was available the soonest, but that didn’t leave any time to get avionics work done. As for the extended timeline, a lot of it had to do with the government shutdown. No certification work could be done so things got pushed back a bit.

Acey559 wrote:

382 doesn’t have the flat panel display system installed ye

Are the ATSG airlines still using the IS&S FPDS system -- or has CAM moved to the Collins or similar displays (as an option; I heard they actually rip out the better avionics if the customer doesn't want to pay for them)?

wjcandee wrote:

Acey559 wrote:

382 doesn’t have the flat panel display system installed ye

Are the ATSG airlines still using the IS&S FPDS system -- or has CAM moved to the Collins or similar displays (as an option; I heard they actually rip out the better avionics if the customer doesn't want to pay for them)?

All of ours (with the exception of one or two that still have the legacy configuration) are IS&S systems. I think I remember hearing that AMES owns the STC so I doubt there’s much chance we’ll go to anything else. I can’t say for certain about removing anything as most planes have come to us in the legacy configuration. American also uses the IS&S flight deck on those aircraft they converted, so that’s an easy transition and less money for ATSG. I don’t know how many 767s American converted or if we have taken delivery of any of them yet, but it’s a good bet we will at some point.

I think the deal was that AMES and IS&S have (or at least had) an agreement where IS&S provides the hardware and AMES (or ABX Air, actually) provides the installation and pilot training. I think they partnered on the STC years ago. It was a pretty-nifty, comparatively-low-cost solution. There was a time years ago where they were marketing the turnkey package, promising 48 hour turnaround. I don't know how many takers they had. I forgot that AA actually also upgraded a bunch of their 767s with the IS&S product; I remember seeing some whining about it about the time, but also some compliments. Like all this stuff, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And it makes sense that for the ATSG airlines, CAM would provide aircraft with the flat panels. I think the choice of avionics is for the other lease customers.

OKAY, so we finally have a leak about the accident investigation, and something that I saw that feeds into it. It all may explain why they are being so mum about information from the official investigation.

First, I was surprised to see something today. As you know, the Atlas MEC chairman made some stupid comments a few weeks ago about the Amazon carriers being a "ticking time bomb" or some such, because, as the very-typical union sad song goes, they are so underpaid and so tired. Which magically gets instantly fixed the moment they get a raise. The MEC chairman had added some color to the usual sad song, making extravagant statements about how inexperienced the people were that were being hired, and, you could read it to say, that his own members on average weren't good pilots. See, the carriers are dangerous because there are so many inexperienced pilots among his own membership. Oy. If I were an Atlas pilot, I would be pissed at being so-characterized, but I wouldn't say anything because I would know that he was doing it for our cause, even if it was insulting. And because I would fear snakes in my mailbox if I said anything. Nobody paid attention to those comments when made, but after the accident, they got a lot of play. And certain members were now-vocally-pissed-off about those comments, because they appeared to suggest that the accident aircraft pilots weren't good pilots. Crickets from the union, except that it was being repeatedly pointed out that these were pre-accident, not post-accident, comments.

But in the last day or so, the same guy has apparently doubled-down on these comments. That says to me that he knows the crew is going to take a hit from the NTSB, and he's going to now use the accident as an "I told you so" moment. The new union line will be that the Amazon carrier arrangement is "unsafe", because "Amazon controls the carriers", and that if Amazon wants to do this it's going to have to have its own airline with union employees. Who, I assume, will really try to hold it hostage. Or, that Atlas and ATSG are going to have to slow their growth because they are "unsafe". Unless of course everybody gets big raises. You watch. This is what's coming. Just from reading that fact, this is what I am inferring. It also explains why the NTSB is being so close-to-the-vest with its cards; it's too soon for the families for the NTSB to unload on the pilots, and they're not going to do it until every duck is lined up and every t is crossed and every i dotted. It explains why there are no maintenance checks being ordered at the carriers and none of the kind of stuff that starts to happen pretty quickly if an aging (or otherwise) airplane issue comes up where there might be a mechanical something that should be addressed. The 767, after all, still flies a LOT of passengers. From that one change in position from the Atlas MEC head, I think this is a fair inference. Especially because -- voila -- the Atlas MEC is a party to the NTSB proceeding, so they know everything that the NTSB is finding.

Now, add to that a leak that came out today. Full-fledged leak from Greg Feith, who no longer works at NTSB but of course knows everybody there, and is going to end up being informally-privy to what's happening in the investigation. He was talking in an interview and online about the 737MAX accidents and basically saying that they are a result of crew inexperience and unwillingness to take manual control of the aircraft and to do so competently when they had to do it. He didn't use those words, but that is the gist. He then said, "This is a prominent issue in the Atlas Air crash. The airplane apparently crashed with the autopilot and autothrottles engaged, and the pilots fighting the automation." This tends to support my initial instincts in the point above. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 1620931826 He used the words "coupled" and "hand fly" in the interview, as opposed to the Facebook bit that I linked to, but basically made the same point. So that's the same leak, made twice in a day, in two different media.

I am very sad to say that it appears that the NTSB is looking at pilot error as a significant factor in this becoming a fatal accident. And what is now going to happen is that the anti-Amazon political stooges are going to line up with their union friends, and there will be much high-minded hand-wringing and political investigations and blah-blah. To what end, we don't know, but I'm going to load in a bunch of jiffy pop because this is going to get interesting. And what's going to be lost in this is that some wonderful people are going to be dragged through the mud to serve a political end.

I am even suspicious of Feith's motives, because he is now a gun for hire rather than a government professional, all coiffed and tan and suited-up with the silk tie and pocket hankie, and I wonder how much coordination there is with him and this leak coming now. How quickly we start to see things in the paper or in Congress after today will be revealing.

"autopilot and autothrottles engaged, and the pilots fighting the automation"... that cannot be the whole story. The nav system went bonkers and replaced IAH with Trinity Bay?

WPvsMW wrote:

"autopilot and autothrottles engaged, and the pilots fighting the automation"... that cannot be the whole story. The nav system went bonkers and replaced IAH with Trinity Bay?

You're right. It won't be the whole story. But it's the old story: if the wings come off in flight, it's the "pilot's fault" for not properly-preflighting the aircraft. Probably not to that extent here, but you can see that the direction they are going (and maybe not where they will end up) is this "The inexperienced pilots unwilling to hand-fly got tangled up in the automation." I think this is unfair given that they had to respond thisfast, but it is what it is. And we don't know the precipitating event that they are being accused of not responding to correctly, but I was pretty darn surprised to see the union throwing them under the bus already.

The issue is Atlas has turned into a revolving door pilot mill. While reputable carriers hire the most qualified, Atlas has been hiring whatever, whoever, and as quickly as possible. When you add significant growth into the mix that isn’t a good recipe. It’s one thing to hire pilots that have impeccable training records and throw them from an underpowered 50 seat jet or turbo prop into a 747, 767 or 777, but it’s another to do it with someone who has struggled their entire career. That’s the current state. Calling it a ticking time bomb is accurate. When you have to hire 3 pilots to retain 1 you’re going to have problems. I don’t agree with the heel-digging that is going on with the union EXCO but I don’t think calling out the major problem of poor pilot retention is sensationalism (this incident wound up on the news, but the amount of close calls recently would surprise you..) It is a serious problem that hasn’t been seriously addressed. If a perfectly good airplane was flown into the ground, and it’s looking more and more likely, I don’t think anyone could disagree that this should never ever happen. Who is ultimately to blame is the question.

wjcandee wrote:

I am very sad to say that it appears that the NTSB is looking at pilot error as a significant factor in this becoming a fatal accident. And what is now going to happen is that the anti-Amazon political stooges are going to line up with their union friends, and there will be much high-minded hand-wringing and political investigations and blah-blah.

There’s a very good chance it was pilot error. Not certain, but in the arc of aviation accidents certainly probable. It is well known that the ACMIs are not attracting America’s most talented pilots. I’m not saying that it was the case here, but perhaps some scrutiny into how amazon operates is warranted, particularly with respect to broader operational control.

Whiplash6 wrote:

The issue is Atlas has turned into a revolving door pilot mill. While reputable carriers hire the most qualified, Atlas has been hiring whatever, whoever, and as quickly as possible. When you add significant growth into the mix that isn’t a good recipe. It’s one thing to hire pilots that have impeccable training records and throw them from an underpowered 50 seat jet or turbo prop into a 747, 767 or 777, but it’s another to do it with someone who has struggled their entire career. That’s the current state. Calling it a ticking time bomb is accurate. When you have to hire 3 pilots to retain 1 you’re going to have problems. I don’t agree with the heel-digging that is going on with the union EXCO but I don’t think calling out the major problem of poor pilot retention is sensationalism (this incident wound up on the news, but the amount of close calls recently would surprise you..) It is a serious problem that hasn’t been seriously addressed. If a perfectly good airplane was flown into the ground, and it’s looking more and more likely, I don’t think anyone could disagree that this should never ever happen. Who is ultimately to blame is the question.

I respect your thoughtful, well-stated opinion on this.

Oy. Here we go.

Regarding the future Amazon Air Hub at CVG, a bunch of trees have started being cleared. Looks like they started over the weekend beginning at Taxiway Novemeber, moving south.

830WE is currently enroute to TLV. I got several pictures of them but can't upload them to the site where I usually do. From what I see, 633SH was probably scrapped and I did not see 712AX at ILN so I do not know where it is.

KCVGSpotter wrote:

Regarding the future Amazon Air Hub at CVG, a bunch of trees have started being cleared. Looks like they started over the weekend beginning at Taxiway Novemeber, moving south.

They were supposed to begin work in Q1 ‘19, so it looks like they are right on schedule!

KCVGSpotter wrote:

Regarding the future Amazon Air Hub at CVG, a bunch of trees have started being cleared. Looks like they started over the weekend beginning at Taxiway Novemeber, moving south.

From what I’ve read, the south parcel is to be completed first before the north end. From what I’ve heard, the south parcel is supposed to be offices and MX facilities.

I noticed N740AX (LN 6) has been parked in CVG since 12/31. Anyone have any idea what's going on? Also N798AX entered ROW on 3/6. I presume paint to white from DHL so it can serve Amazon amongst others?

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

I noticed N740AX (LN 6) has been parked in CVG since 12/31. Anyone have any idea what's going on? Also N798AX entered ROW on 3/6. I presume paint to white from DHL so it can serve Amazon amongst others?

740 is actually at ILN. I believe that it has been removed from DHL service. It may be getting an HMV for return to service at ABX, or it may be being prepped for re-lease to a different party.

798 should be somewhere within a hundred or two cycles of its LOV. I think it's not even worth repainting given its remaining life. ATSG indicated that a second 767-200 would be WFU and scrapped sometime in 2019. I think this is it.

N830WE at TLV

Nice, Yochai. And for what it’s worth, I saw a picture of 382CM yesterday and it looks identical to this. So anyone in CVG May be able to get a peek at it because it is presently filling in for some 757s in the DHL system that have been having maintenance troubles.

I just saw planespotters.net that Amazone is getting a converted Boeing 737-800 passeger aircraft.
This aircraft flew before for China Southern a B-5128.
The aircraft is now at TNA to being converted to a freighter aicraft.
I find this quite exiting to see a Boeing 737 in the Amazon Prime Air coulours.
Also this has been mentioned on Skyliner. Here the link https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3 and here the other link https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... S/3qrjFnYe

KLM747er

KLM747er wrote:

I just saw planespotters.net that Amazone is getting a converted Boeing 737-800 passeger aircraft.
This aircraft flew before for China Southern a B-5128.
The aircraft is now at TNA to being converted to a freighter aicraft.
I find this quite exiting to see a Boeing 737 in the Amazon Prime Air coulours.
Also this has been mentioned on Skyliner. Here the link https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3 and here the other link https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... S/3qrjFnYe

KLM747er

That's a rather curious move to go with a 738 to add to their 767 fleet. I'm wondering if they're attempting to add more "spokes" which can't accommodate a 767 but can handle a 738.

Meanwhile, their DFW air hub suffered storm-related damage a few days ago. Not sure how that affects West Coast bound parcels, but anything that would go to CVG hub was going by ground.

I said a long time ago that Amazon was going to need a different-sized aircraft if they continued to expand into markets beyond the low-hanging fruit. Given the paucity of good 737-400 feedstock out there, the 737-800 makes sense. although it's still an expensive airframe for a cargo conversion.

Now the fun begins in terms of who is going to fly it, and when. Northern ran some 737s in the initial experiment, and Northern's head is a friend of Bezos, apparently. So that's a possibility. Southern (Atlas) of course, but I notice that this is a GECAS aircraft, so one would think that Atlas would want the opportunity to lease the aircraft and manage the conversion. Kalitta Charters (Doug, not Connie) is another possibility.

STAECO at TNA is one of PEMCO's two touch-work 737 conversion partners in China, but it is also one of Boeing's touch contractors on the 737-800BCF conversions. GECAS is the launch customer for the 737-800BCF, so it's likely that this conversion is a BCF.

Or maybe this is a head-fake.

There's a nice photo of it on another site. Just google the tail number.

Just saw the pic on jetphotos.net.

KLM747er wrote:

I just saw planespotters.net that Amazone is getting a converted Boeing 737-800 passeger aircraft.
This aircraft flew before for China Southern a B-5128.
The aircraft is now at TNA to being converted to a freighter aicraft.
I find this quite exiting to see a Boeing 737 in the Amazon Prime Air coulours.
Also this has been mentioned on Skyliner. Here the link https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3 and here the other link https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... S/3qrjFnYe

KLM747er

Maybe it’s just me, but I thought for sure it was a fake when I first saw it. Painting before the mod? Just doesn’t make sense. I’ll be more than happy to be proven wrong, however.

jetblueguy22 wrote:

Maybe it’s just me, but I thought for sure it was a fake when I first saw it. Painting before the mod? Just doesn’t make sense. I’ll be more than happy to be proven wrong, however.

Ah, but you let your database deceive your eyes! The mod is done. The databases are just catching up. (And Skyliners shows a 3/12/19 test flight post-mod now).

I would be surprised if the 737 goes to anyone besides Southern Air. It makes too much sense to just add it to the Atlas/Southern lease and with the added bonus that Southern Air has 737 typed pilots rather than finding a new operator to take them.

wjcandee wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

Maybe it’s just me, but I thought for sure it was a fake when I first saw it. Painting before the mod? Just doesn’t make sense. I’ll be more than happy to be proven wrong, however.

Ah, but you let your database deceive your eyes! The mod is done. The databases are just catching up. (And Skyliners shows a 3/12/19 test flight post-mod now).

Interesting! I for sure missed this one, didn't think they had any 737s in the pipeline.

N730WE, the second of 3 ex NZ 763's rolled out of the conversion line to the high power engine runup pad on the IAI ramp in TLV late last night, a test flight is expected in the coming weeks.

SierraPacific wrote:

I would be surprised if the 737 goes to anyone besides Southern Air. It makes too much sense to just add it to the Atlas/Southern lease and with the added bonus that Southern Air has 737 typed pilots rather than finding a new operator to take them.

Looks like this 737 will be operated by West Atlantic.

https://cargofacts.com/west-atlantic-se ... 7-800bcfs/

KCVGSpotter wrote:

SierraPacific wrote:

I would be surprised if the 737 goes to anyone besides Southern Air. It makes too much sense to just add it to the Atlas/Southern lease and with the added bonus that Southern Air has 737 typed pilots rather than finding a new operator to take them.

Looks like this 737 will be operated by West Atlantic.

https://cargofacts.com/west-atlantic-se ... 7-800bcfs/

So it will be used in Europe I assume. Article also mentions ASL work for Amazon, wonder how many dedicated aircraft ASL has for Amazon and where they fly. Maybe the single 738BCF is a "test" for potential future use in Europe/US network?

KCVGSpotter wrote:

Looks like this 737 will be operated by West Atlantic.

Maybe, but I'm not so sure of that. GECAS is the launch customer of the AEI conversion and the Boeing conversion, and plans to convert like 50 or more of its leased fleet of -800s to freighters. The first GECAS AEI on went to Ethiopian, and the first GECAS BCF went to West Atlantic. But it's not clear that the next ones will; often they are spaced out a bit between acceptances.

KCVGSpotter wrote:

SierraPacific wrote:

I would be surprised if the 737 goes to anyone besides Southern Air. It makes too much sense to just add it to the Atlas/Southern lease and with the added bonus that Southern Air has 737 typed pilots rather than finding a new operator to take them.

Looks like this 737 will be operated by West Atlantic.

https://cargofacts.com/west-atlantic-se ... 7-800bcfs/

That came out of left field! I hope to see these in America soon.

KCVGSpotter wrote:

Looks like this 737 will be operated by West Atlantic.

https://cargofacts.com/west-atlantic-se ... 7-800bcfs/

West Atlantic already have all four 737-800BCFs mentioned in that article, and they are flying for FedEx. So unless West Atlantic have contracted for more airframes. Current European Amazon airlift is provided by ASL, which also has 737-800 freighters on property and/or on order.

Thanks, Andy. So maybe this IS a head-fake, as I thought possible, and these are indeed going to Air Contractors (ASL) for European ops. The N registration could just be temporary as it's a GECAS aircraft. It will be interesting to see.

Pretty good looking!

Bricktop wrote:

Pretty good looking!

Personally, I think it's ugly as can be... and I honestly don't understand why, if they're revising the livery... they didn't go all the way and adopt the official rebrand as Amazon Air. I would love to hear the rationale for using/continuing the "Prime Air" name when it's officially only the drone division.

aren't these planned for the new ILN hub?

N798AX arrived back into CVG this evening wearing the white ABX Air (2012) livery. There is only one 767-200 in DHL livery for ABX Air. 798 began pulling double duty at the beginning of the year for DHL and Amazon. It will be interesting to see how much longer this aircraft will fly.

KCVGSpotter wrote:

N798AX arrived back into CVG this evening wearing the white ABX Air (2012) livery. There is only one 767-200 in DHL livery for ABX Air. 798 began pulling double duty at the beginning of the year for DHL and Amazon. It will be interesting to see how much longer this aircraft will fly.

I guess I was totally-wrong about the aircraft being retired. It seriously can't have many cycles left before its LOV. In the low hundreds. I didn't think it was even worth repainting, but I guess it is needed. That's actually a good sign for ABX.

I note from a report in another thread that 750AX just went to ROW, apparently for paint. That's an Amazon-dry-lease one currently in ABX Air full livery. Will be interesting to see what it comes out in.

KCVGSpotter wrote:

There is only one 767-200 in DHL livery for ABX Air.

Wow! My records had N773AX, 775, 783, 787, 788, and 794 as being ABX B762s in DHL paint... looks like it's time to update some information on my end, thank you.

With respect to Amazon's 737 - Southern Air's been flying N362GT around (CVG-MIA, mostly), apparently for training - not sure how type ratings work between the 737-400 and -800, but might be a clue?

ottergoose wrote:

KCVGSpotter wrote:

There is only one 767-200 in DHL livery for ABX Air.

Wow! My records had N773AX, 775, 783, 787, 788, and 794 as being ABX B762s in DHL paint... looks like it's time to update some information on my end, thank you.

With respect to Amazon's 737 - Southern Air's been flying N362GT around (CVG-MIA, mostly), apparently for training - not sure how type ratings work between the 737-400 and -800, but might be a clue?

Technically, 794AX is also still a DHL paint scheme, however, it is stored at ILN to get scrapped.