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MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:14 pm

CAM signed for N381AN on Friday. But we knew that was eventually going to happen.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:58 pm

MO11 wrote:
CAM signed for N381AN on Friday. But we knew that was eventually going to happen.


Your updates on these things are just excellent. Thank you! Allows me to put my list in order.

Two questions, for you and/or the group:

(1) Has AA retired any more 767-300s yet this year beyond the two that CAM has now bought? In other words, are we up to date on the ones to watch?

(2) Am I correct that the ones that are in line to be tweaked and then sent to TLV are: N1501P, N389AA, N153DL and N381AN? I have 730WE, 354AA, 830WE over there in conversion. I understand that N730WE is basically-done; perhaps there is a business reason that CAM hasn't brought it back over yet, or of course maybe it's something else.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:29 pm

N389AA and N381AN are the only two AA's retired so far this year. 7 more will follow post Summer schedule.
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:39 am

Are the back and forth RT's VQQ-TPA just training for crew? They seem to be on ground for little time so can't be PEMCO related.

And also if they do decide to do TPA-SJU, I wonder what in between airports they will select? New stations? Substitute existing?
 
CoThG
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:12 pm

When does the ILN night sort start?
 
Allee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 3:16 am

Finally DHL and ATSG sign 3 year extension. Still only 8 tails for ABX to fly.

https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... sing-deal/
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 3:28 am

Skyline reported N5113A ferried VQQ-RFD today. Start of service imminent for the 738F fleet?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 3:31 am

 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 4:19 am

Allee wrote:
Finally DHL and ATSG sign 3 year extension. Still only 8 tails for ABX to fly.

https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... sing-deal/


Pretty much what we expected...

Interesting to see ABX taking over the MIA-PHL UPS route from ATI, as the 767-300 being used on it is needed for Amazon. And a decent use, I guess, for one of ABX's underutilized 767-200s. But my understanding is that all the supplemental non-peak UPS flying will be going away soon as UPS onboards more pilots and aircraft.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 4:21 am

Spacepope wrote:
Skyline reported N5113A ferried VQQ-RFD today. Start of service imminent for the 738F fleet?


Looks like 5113A and 5147A will be in revenue service tonight.

Anybody notice Southern's current minimums to be hired on the 737 fleet? Yikes.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 5:08 am

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Skyline reported N5113A ferried VQQ-RFD today. Start of service imminent for the 738F fleet?


Looks like 5113A and 5147A will be in revenue service tonight.

Anybody notice Southern's current minimums to be hired on the 737 fleet? Yikes.

Am I reading it right? 1000 hours total time, no turbine hours required?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 5:57 am

Spacepope wrote:
Am I reading it right? 1000 hours total time, no turbine hours required?


Correcto. And a requirement of 1000 Fixed Wing or 500 Hours Part 121. On the 737, also can have a restricted ATP. (On the 777, they require 1500 total, 500 turbine, 1000 fixed wing (or 500 Part 121) and an unrestricted ATP.)
 
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Acey559
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 12:19 pm

CoThG wrote:
When does the ILN night sort start?


Sometime in June. I don’t know the exact date but the plan is to get things going next month.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 12:24 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Am I reading it right? 1000 hours total time, no turbine hours required?


Correcto. And a requirement of 1000 Fixed Wing or 500 Hours Part 121. On the 737, also can have a restricted ATP. (On the 777, they require 1500 total, 500 turbine, 1000 fixed wing (or 500 Part 121) and an unrestricted ATP.)


Neat! if what I hear on a.net is true, they'll have similar staffing issues as the Atlas 767 fleet. Sounds like a revolving door to get to 1500 hours and bug out. Lather, rinse, repeat.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 12:44 pm

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Am I reading it right? 1000 hours total time, no turbine hours required?


Correcto. And a requirement of 1000 Fixed Wing or 500 Hours Part 121. On the 737, also can have a restricted ATP. (On the 777, they require 1500 total, 500 turbine, 1000 fixed wing (or 500 Part 121) and an unrestricted ATP.)


Neat! if what I hear on a.net is true, they'll have similar staffing issues as the Atlas 767 fleet. Sounds like a revolving door to get to 1500 hours and bug out. Lather, rinse, repeat.


The problem with trying to gain hours on Southern's 737 fleet is that, at least at the moment, it's a couple-of-shortish-legs-and rest. One would do a lot more hours per day flying at a regional, I think. We don't know what the schedule for the Amazon aircraft is going to be, though.

I think the market will eventually lead to a need for a better contract at Atlas/Southern, probably late next year, because if the revolving door keeps training cost too high, then it will be worth paying more for stability. However, the ability to find at least technically-qualified pilots for freight carriers turns out to be nowhere near as difficult as the unions believed it would be. The question is what do you have to pay for the kind of quality that they used to be able to find, and I think they should all be doing some soul-searching about what level of quality are they willing to accept (and what kind of difference does the appearance of quality/trainability at the front door make in terms of long-term operational stability once the people are on-board). Also, my personal belief is that the music is going to -- if not stop -- at least start slowing down soon. In search of a top-tier income as a pilot, most freight dogs aren't going to the major pax carriers as they move upstream; they are going to UPS and FedEx. As the component of pilot demand at those carriers that arises from growth begins to wane, so will everything else in this space. (The retirement issue will continue to drive a level of demand, of course.) However, if demand for top-tier wage pilots at major passenger airlines continues strong, it will moderate the flow into this space from pilots moving from regionals to freight as the flow into the major passenger carriers will be perceived as the better path and will be available.
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 2:42 pm

 
Whiplash6
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 2:57 pm

Southern utilizes two unpainted 737s in cvg as time-building planes for those that don’t meet the minimum requirements for an ATP. They do runs to MIA and back with no payload, no passengers; just burning gas. That’s how low things have fallen at AAWH.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 4:31 pm

BTVB6Flyer wrote:


Neat, long thin route. Looks like between last night's routes and this one they're using a 36XX flight number, so similar to the flight numbering with the 767 fleet.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 6:37 pm

Nice photo of the 738 at TPA, with 763 in the background and also one of their little tiny robots 'Scout'.

https://twitter.com/FlyTPA/status/1123994398214242304
 
WolfPDX
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 9:37 pm

Quite a nice change from the all white 763s. N5147A in KPDX.
 
rubberdogdo
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 10:54 pm

Whiplash6 wrote:
Southern utilizes two unpainted 737s in cvg as time-building planes for those that don’t meet the minimum requirements for an ATP. They do runs to MIA and back with no payload, no passengers; just burning gas. That’s how low things have fallen at AAWH.


The drive to be the lowest cost operator ( Amazon , AAWH ) is forcing decisions made by accountants onto the shoulders of inexperienced and unqualified pilots. Just like allowing banks and other financial institutions to regulate and police themselves ( 2008 financial crisis ) and more recently by Boeing's self certification of the 737 Max 8 , ( lack of FAA funding ) , it doesn't end well - it is never the accountants or financial managers that are impacted , held accountable or smack into the ground. It's the pilots. There will be a day sometime in the future that we will recollect and reconsider the foolish decisions being made today. With nobody willing to say enough is enough , the race to the bottom will continue at 500 mph. This industry only responds to a death count - and only then if it is in the continental US. No you say ? Imagine how different the climate would be if Lion Air and Ethiopian were instead US carriers. Come on Southern - raise your standards , terms and conditions - time for a fair , respectful and modern CBA.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun May 05, 2019 8:21 pm

A tangential note: N399CM, the NAC/Aloha Cargo dry-leased-from-CAM 767-300 that does LAX-HNL, and is currently operated by ATI while Aloha gets its act together...I mean "gets ETOPS"...has completed maintenance at ILN, where it has been for two weeks (4/22/19-5/5/19).

N382CM, formerly N930WE, a recent conversion, has been subbing for it. 399 is on its way back to LAX from ILN as we speak, and presumably will rotate in on the 3AM-ish LAX-HNL departure early tomorrow morning. This will free 382 to fly to Dean Baldwin for painting into the Prime Air livery after it arrives back from HNL just before midnight tonight. (The aircraft rests in HNL; it does HNL-LAX, waits about 3.5 hours to load, then returns to HNL. So 382 will come off the route at LAX, and 399 will slide back in.) 382 has been scheduled for months to go to Dean Baldwin today, so looks like it will be more-or-less on-time. 382 will become N389AZ when it goes into service for Amazon.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun May 05, 2019 8:44 pm

FWIW, I don't think it's fair to blame Amazon for the "race to the bottom", especially because Amazon uses multiple channels and business plans to deliver its wares. FedEx and UPS, and the concept of stocking distribution centers so that trucks can do the delivery, are all "competitors" to the carriers represented by Local 1224. Airlines all compete for business in part of the basis of price, whether it be from passenger customers or freight customers, whether on their own service or services provided to others. (Service reliability and other metrics are also important factors in the competition.)

ABX suffers in large part because it takes 30 percent more pilots than other carriers to do many routes because of ABX's day-night transition rules and other work rules. That makes the carrier not-price-competitive in many cases, which is why DHL continues to move aircraft operation from ABX to other carriers.

AAWH is plainly trying to be the low-price competitor, and it continues to solicit business for charter, ACMI and other work from military and corporate customers, in competition with ABX, Kalitta and others. It continues to take on new business while it lowers its standards to bring aboard new pilots who are willing to work for what it is willing to pay.

For example, it just took a contract for 4 747s away from Kalitta, based solely on price. That's 4 747s that it's going to have to hire more low-experience (or questionable) pilots to staff, while it hires non-turbine-time, restricted ATP pilots for its SOO 737s. AAWH is trying to take advantage of Connie's more-expensive pilot contract by underbidding him. No whipsaw, just straightforward competition.

Given the accident in Texas, and given what caused it, and given that that it was sheer luck that it was a planeload of cargo rather than a planeload of US Troops, I really think that the military and FAA should refuse to allow Atlas to acquire any more aircraft until it undergoes a white-glove inspection, particularly of its pilot training and qualifications, and maybe a wholesale recertification, as was done to ValuJet. I think that the NTSB preliminary report and hearing is going to be beyond-brutal, and that may trigger these events anyway.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 12:01 am

N382CM is now (5/6/19) at ROW for paint at Dean Baldwin, presumably into Amazon Air livery, having flown in from LAX as expected this morning. To become N389AZ.
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 5:56 pm

So right now, looks like 2 737 are just doing a TPA-RFD-PDX-RFD-TPA routing. Then one sits at TPA for nearly 20 hours before departing again back to RFD.
 
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yochai
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 6:41 pm

N1501P is expected is expected in TLV on Friday morning
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 9:06 pm

Awesome, Yochai! Thanks for the update.

I'm so intrigued that 730WE is still there. By my notes, it has been there since 8/29/18 -- eight months!
 
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yochai
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 10:15 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Awesome, Yochai! Thanks for the update.

I'm so intrigued that 730WE is still there. By my notes, it has been there since 8/29/18 -- eight months!


730 was scheduled for a test flight this morning but cancelled. Right now scheduled for delivery on Friday to Shannon but not sure it will happen this week as we are on holiday in Israel on Thursday so delivery will probably be next week assuming all goes according to plan.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 12:11 am

Thank you, Yochai! I will keep my eye on it -- and I hope you keep your camera on it!
 
rj1385
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 3:44 am

Any idea if the 737s AA plans the shed will end up with a smile on their side?
 
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yochai
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri May 10, 2019 9:36 pm

730 was out on a test flight earlier this morning, will probably be delivered early next week. N1501P did not make it to TLV today.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 4:09 pm

1501P now scheduled to depart ILN for SNN/TLV at 7:40pm EST (5/12/19).
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 4:12 pm

rj1385 wrote:
Any idea if the 737s AA plans the shed will end up with a smile on their side?


Don't know what will happen eventually to ex-AA 737s. For now, it seems that GECAS is sourcing the Amazon conversions from lease returns of passenger aircraft in its existing fleet. (The first three Amazon conversions were all of gold-plated versions leased by GECAS originally to ATA Airlines in the early 2000s and then placed with China Southern.)
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 4:28 pm

wjcandee wrote:
rj1385 wrote:
Any idea if the 737s AA plans the shed will end up with a smile on their side?


Don't know what will happen eventually to ex-AA 737s. For now, it seems that GECAS is sourcing the Amazon conversions from lease returns of passenger aircraft in its existing fleet. (The first three Amazon conversions were all of gold-plated versions leased by GECAS originally to ATA Airlines in the early 2000s and then placed with China Southern.)


There's rumors of another operator getting the whole lot once AA sheds them. GECAS going onsie-twosie with whatever's coming off lease doesn't seem too problematic as they have a steady stream of feed stock, know the history, and as we've seen with Atlas the amazon operators have no problem with a super mixed source fleet if it comes to that.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 5:31 pm

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
rj1385 wrote:
Any idea if the 737s AA plans the shed will end up with a smile on their side?


Don't know what will happen eventually to ex-AA 737s. For now, it seems that GECAS is sourcing the Amazon conversions from lease returns of passenger aircraft in its existing fleet. (The first three Amazon conversions were all of gold-plated versions leased by GECAS originally to ATA Airlines in the early 2000s and then placed with China Southern.)


There's rumors of another operator getting the whole lot once AA sheds them. GECAS going onesie-twosie with whatever's coming off lease doesn't seem too problematic as they have a steady stream of feed stock, know the history, and as we've seen with Atlas the amazon operators have no problem with a super mixed source fleet if it comes to that.


GECAS leased 30 brand-new 737-800s to ATA in the early 2000s, all of which had all the available bells and whistles. These were subsequently re-leased by GECAS to a variety of carriers. The first 3 Amazon conversions came from this group, specifically returns of the re-leases to China Southern. But GECAS could probably put together a pretty-cohesive group of similarly-outfitted aircraft as feedstock for this venture.

On the 767s, ATSG/CAM has favored significant blocks of similarly-pedigreed aircraft -- and not just for Amazon. Atlas/Titan has been less-interested in similarity of pedigree. The Atlas aircraft have not had avionics and other cockpit features standardized, so there apparently are sheets of info that are distributed as to the differences. I believe that all or close-to-all of the aircraft operated by ATSG have the IS&S FPDS installed, although the FMS may vary among certain members of the fleet. I think all or most of the 767-300s have Pegasus, as do the 757 combis. I think some (most?) of the 767-200s have the Legacy box as do some (all?) of the 757 straight freighters. On these aircraft, the FMS seems to be determined to some extent by the expected duty (i.e. the 757 Combis get the full Pegasus solution because of the kind of flying that they do).
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 8:49 pm

Two ex ATA 737-800 is now flying with Sun Country IIRC N830SY. & N831SY
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
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Acey559
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 11:11 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

Don't know what will happen eventually to ex-AA 737s. For now, it seems that GECAS is sourcing the Amazon conversions from lease returns of passenger aircraft in its existing fleet. (The first three Amazon conversions were all of gold-plated versions leased by GECAS originally to ATA Airlines in the early 2000s and then placed with China Southern.)


There's rumors of another operator getting the whole lot once AA sheds them. GECAS going onesie-twosie with whatever's coming off lease doesn't seem too problematic as they have a steady stream of feed stock, know the history, and as we've seen with Atlas the amazon operators have no problem with a super mixed source fleet if it comes to that.


GECAS leased 30 brand-new 737-800s to ATA in the early 2000s, all of which had all the available bells and whistles. These were subsequently re-leased by GECAS to a variety of carriers. The first 3 Amazon conversions came from this group, specifically returns of the re-leases to China Southern. But GECAS could probably put together a pretty-cohesive group of similarly-outfitted aircraft as feedstock for this venture.

On the 767s, ATSG/CAM has favored significant blocks of similarly-pedigreed aircraft -- and not just for Amazon. Atlas/Titan has been less-interested in similarity of pedigree. The Atlas aircraft have not had avionics and other cockpit features standardized, so there apparently are sheets of info that are distributed as to the differences. I believe that all or close-to-all of the aircraft operated by ATSG have the IS&S FPDS installed, although the FMS may vary among certain members of the fleet. I think all or most of the 767-300s have Pegasus, as do the 757 combis. I think some (most?) of the 767-200s have the Legacy box as do some (all?) of the 757 straight freighters. On these aircraft, the FMS seems to be determined to some extent by the expected duty (i.e. the 757 Combis get the full Pegasus solution because of the kind of flying that they do).


Right now only N382CM and N791AX have the classic flight deck. 382 will be upgraded probably during heavy check. It wasn’t initially upgraded because we (ATI) weren’t originally supposed to have the aircraft, but Amazon changed that when they announced extra frames. I doubt 791 will ever get upgraded. It has to be on its last legs. I heard that it’s currently the second oldest 767 in the world. I’m not sure if that’s true but it wouldn’t surprise me.

As for the FMS, as WJ said it’s a mixed bag. All Combi aircraft have the Pegasus suite as do a few 767s. 255 does I believe as well as 761 and 762. The rest of the 200s are legacy boxes I think. The 300s are a mix of Pegasus and PIP boxes. PIP boxes are basically legacy boxes with Pegasus-type features but not the full-on Pegasus package. All 757 freighters are PIP boxes. I think anyway. It’s been a while since I’ve flown DHL and I generally try to avoid it like the plague so my memory might be failing me. I know at least a couple of them are PIP boxes for sure.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 12:20 am

791 has about 43000 cycles and fewer than 60,000 hours on her. So she is on the lighter side of the median of the -200 fleet at ATSG. She is line number 106, so not even close to the oldest active one. 739 on the other hand...

In terms of calendar age, she's the current winner, although when 741 gets re-leased, it will be.
Last edited by wjcandee on Mon May 13, 2019 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
CX747
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 12:23 am

wjcandee wrote:
FWIW, I don't think it's fair to blame Amazon for the "race to the bottom", especially because Amazon uses multiple channels and business plans to deliver its wares. FedEx and UPS, and the concept of stocking distribution centers so that trucks can do the delivery, are all "competitors" to the carriers represented by Local 1224. Airlines all compete for business in part of the basis of price, whether it be from passenger customers or freight customers, whether on their own service or services provided to others. (Service reliability and other metrics are also important factors in the competition.)

ABX suffers in large part because it takes 30 percent more pilots than other carriers to do many routes because of ABX's day-night transition rules and other work rules. That makes the carrier not-price-competitive in many cases, which is why DHL continues to move aircraft operation from ABX to other carriers.

AAWH is plainly trying to be the low-price competitor, and it continues to solicit business for charter, ACMI and other work from military and corporate customers, in competition with ABX, Kalitta and others. It continues to take on new business while it lowers its standards to bring aboard new pilots who are willing to work for what it is willing to pay.

For example, it just took a contract for 4 747s away from Kalitta, based solely on price. That's 4 747s that it's going to have to hire more low-experience (or questionable) pilots to staff, while it hires non-turbine-time, restricted ATP pilots for its SOO 737s. AAWH is trying to take advantage of Connie's more-expensive pilot contract by underbidding him. No whipsaw, just straightforward competition.

Given the accident in Texas, and given what caused it, and given that that it was sheer luck that it was a planeload of cargo rather than a planeload of US Troops, I really think that the military and FAA should refuse to allow Atlas to acquire any more aircraft until it undergoes a white-glove inspection, particularly of its pilot training and qualifications, and maybe a wholesale recertification, as was done to ValuJet. I think that the NTSB preliminary report and hearing is going to be beyond-brutal, and that may trigger these events anyway.


Can you expand upon the contract for (4) 747s that Atlas just won over Kalitta?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 1:17 am

CX747 wrote:
quote="wjcandee"]
Can you expand upon the contract for (4) 747s that Atlas just won over Kalitta?


Cannot at the moment. Should be obvious soon-ish.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 2:23 am

wjcandee wrote:
791 has about 43000 cycles and fewer than 60,000 hours on her. So she is on the lighter side of the median of the -200 fleet at ATSG. She is line number 106, so not even close to the oldest active one. 739 on the other hand...

In terms of calendar age, she's the current winner, although when 741 gets re-leased, it will be.


Just to expand on this: 739 is ln 26, delivered to DL December 1982. All these are ex-DL.

740 is ln 6, and thus was the lowest ln operating, but was actually delivered to DL in March 1983, 5 months after 741, which is ln 17, delivered October 1982 . When 741 is re-leased, it will be the earliest-delivered 767 still operating. When 740 is returned to service, it will be the lowest ln still operating. All have roughly-similar hours and cycles.

And just to go back to 791ax, it was delivered to ANA in March 1985, line number 108 not 106; I should have had my glasses on... So it is 2 or so years younger than the others.

Age and line numbers courtesy our friends at planespotters.net. Cycles courtesy FAA.
 
portcolumbus
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 4:35 am

CoThG wrote:
When does the ILN night sort start?


Not sure but there is a job posting out for 3rd-shift ATC at ILN.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 5:29 am

Acey559 wrote:
Right now only N382CM and N791AX have the classic flight deck. 382 will be upgraded probably during heavy check. It wasn’t initially upgraded because we (ATI) weren’t originally supposed to have the aircraft, but Amazon changed that when they announced extra frames. I doubt 791 will ever get upgraded. It has to be on its last legs. I heard that it’s currently the second oldest 767 in the world. I’m not sure if that’s true but it wouldn’t surprise me.

As for the FMS, as WJ said it’s a mixed bag. All Combi aircraft have the Pegasus suite as do a few 767s. 255 does I believe as well as 761 and 762. The rest of the 200s are legacy boxes I think. The 300s are a mix of Pegasus and PIP boxes. PIP boxes are basically legacy boxes with Pegasus-type features but not the full-on Pegasus package. All 757 freighters are PIP boxes. I think anyway. It’s been a while since I’ve flown DHL and I generally try to avoid it like the plague so my memory might be failing me. I know at least a couple of them are PIP boxes for sure.


Thanks for the clarifications, Acey! That's a great inventory of the different FMSs. Actually, I'm kind of puzzled as to why 791 didn't get the IS&S cockpit while it was at ABX. Then, of course, it went to Rio Linhas Aereas for a while before coming back and being pressed into service for Amazon. That it didn't get it while leased to a Brazilian carrier is completely-understandable. Fun fact: ATSG was responsible for something like 30 percent of IS&S's revenue in a recent quarter. (Sort of not a good sign for IS&S, but they seem to have some 767 Tanker work (on other than the tanker's FPDS, which is by Collins) and some prop autothrottle products coming online.)

Currently, btw, all of the 12 767-200s currently dry-leased to Amazon had their leases extended until at least March 2023. So 791 and its brethren have another 4 years to soldier on, assuming that they can continue to do so reliably.

ATSG has been able to run their 767-200s pretty-much to the LOV: when 792AX was retired a year ago from ABX Air, it came out of service because it had basically hit the 50K-cycles LOV. The hours weren't outrageous (upper 60,000s), but it was done on cycles. It was LN110, delivered to ANA in April 1985. The next one to hit the LOV on cycles will be another ABX bird, 798AX, LN143, delivered to ANA in June 1986. I frankly thought it was done when it went to ILN on 3/23/19, but I guess it has a handful of cycles left, because it came out a week later and went back to work. It's not being used daily, by any means, but it is being used as needed to sub on Amazon and DHL. It had 8 flights in April and 4 so far this month.

The 6 Amazon-dry-leased aircraft operated by ABX all have plenty of cycles to get to the ends of their leases, all being in the mid-upper 30K to low 40K range, with one exception which is still only in the mid-upper-46,000-ish range. And their hours aren't even in a range that would make it a consideration in Amazon usage.

And, for what it's worth, the one aircraft that is somewhat-anomalous is ABX's 312AA [LN84, delivered June 1984], which does mostly military cargo flights, including those overseas runs. (It also covers Amazon occasionally.) It has hours in the high-mid-80,000s, but only around 22,000 cycles. So it has the hours in the upper-half of the 767-200 fleet, but crazy-low cycles for a CAM 767-200, doubtless because of the kind of duty that it saw at AA and currently sees doing transatlantic military flights.
 
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Acey559
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 1:42 pm

wjcandee wrote:
791 has about 43000 cycles and fewer than 60,000 hours on her. So she is on the lighter side of the median of the -200 fleet at ATSG. She is line number 106, so not even close to the oldest active one. 739 on the other hand...

In terms of calendar age, she's the current winner, although when 741 gets re-leased, it will be.


Ah that’s it! I just flew both and we were discussing them at breakfast. I must have gotten it mixed up but you’re correct, 739 is the “winner”.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 1:00 am

Here's another interesting factoid: When 389AA is converted (a process that likely won't even begin for a while), it's destined to be renumbered 432AX. Not AZ. AX. (And 432 isn't a prime number, duh.)

This is interesting because over at the pilot boards, although rumors are that ABX Air will be getting some more Amazon flights with its existing Amazon fleet, management apparently has been clear that ABX will not be receiving any additional aircraft of any kind in the foreseeable future. Generally-speaking, ATSG/CAM haven't been numbering newly-acquired aircraft with the AX suffix unless they are going to ABX; most new aircraft either keep their previous tail number, get converted to a tail number for the foreign country to which they are exported, or receive a CM tail number (or CY for the PW-powered 767-300s or CX for a few others). There are a lot of AX tails floating around, but they are all tails previously owned/operated by ABX or its predecessor.

So maybe this means something, maybe it doesn't. But interesting at least.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 1:09 am

Having just talked about N740AX yesterday, looks like it's going for a test flight today, having been at ILN since 1/2/19. Line Number 6, delivered March 1983. She will be the lowest-line-number and, until 741 starts flying again, the earliest-delivered 767 still in service. (741 is LN17, but was delivered 5 months earlier than LN6.) Which one is "oldest" depends upon whether you use build date or delivery date to define age.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 4:16 am

It will be interesting to see how will the shipping industry react to Amazon's new One-Day Prime shipping. Amazon will need to build up its air network to handle its overnight and maybe add more Sortation Centers and Delivery Stations, plus perhaps some additional volume may move through UPS Next Day Air and FedEx Overnight, and maybe even some USPS Priority Mail Express (the latter could be used for some lightweight items).
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 4:51 am

1337Delta764 wrote:
It will be interesting to see how will the shipping industry react to Amazon's new One-Day Prime shipping. Amazon will need to build up its air network to handle its overnight and maybe add more Sortation Centers and Delivery Stations, plus perhaps some additional volume may move through UPS Next Day Air and FedEx Overnight, and maybe even some USPS Priority Mail Express (the latter could be used for some lightweight items).


And/or they work out a later time to get the parcels to the DDU (local post office) and shave off the time it takes to move them from DC to Sortation Center to DDU.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 am

And N730WE is on its way home to CVG via SNN. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N730WE It has been at TLV since 8/30/18, so 8.5 months, significantly-longer than usual. To be N367AZ.

Meanwhile, N1501P is on its way from SNN to TLV to enter conversion today, 5/14/19. To be N409AZ.
 
MajMattMason
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 6:52 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Here's another interesting factoid: When 389AA is converted (a process that likely won't even begin for a while), it's destined to be renumbered 432AX. Not AZ. AX. (And 432 isn't a prime number, duh.).... Generally-speaking, ATSG/CAM haven't been numbering newly-acquired aircraft with the AX suffix unless they are going to ABX....


OR, it could be destined for Omni, they tag their aircraft with “AX” don’t they?!?
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