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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:23 pm

Yep it getting to be great reading and here folks...Its an airline soap opera
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:46 pm

As long as we're speculating -- what's the latest with the rumour of Mesa taking over the Southern 737-400 flying to free up staff for Amazon-leased 737s? Or the subsequent rumour that the Amazon 737-800s would be flown by Mesa? I hate to say it, but Mesa, despite all its problems, has a greater demonstrated ability to run a scheduled operation. It currently operates 145 (regional size) aircraft to about 138 cities with around 760 daily departures. The point is that they have an existing operational infrastructure on which to layer a 737 program. They have indeed had service failures, including one that put them in violation of their performance metrics in their agreement with American in August (but which was subsequently worked out). I can't see how one would go to a Swift or Dynamic if one could go to a Mesa.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:39 pm

Well, Peak is here. Two of the three ATI spares that had been working hard on Amazon, N376AN and N395CM, have moved into position today to do what appears to be Peak flying for UPS. In times past, ATI and ABX had flown some Florida-to-PHL routes, and these birds have moved under 8000 flight numbers to MIA and MCO, respectively. N360CM is still flying Amazon.

On the ABX side, N317CM flew today to SDF under a 9000-number, and N363CM similarly flew to MHR (also a UPS location), so both are likely going to work for UPS during Peak.

All the referenced aircraft are 767-300s.

We will see what they do tonight, which I'm guessing will confirm my expectations.

419AZ should be out the door from conformity and working on Amazon shortly.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:57 am

wjcandee wrote:
Well, Peak is here. Two of the three ATI spares that had been working hard on Amazon, N376AN and N395CM, have moved into position today to do what appears to be Peak flying for UPS. In times past, ATI and ABX had flown some Florida-to-PHL routes, and these birds have moved under 8000 flight numbers to MIA and MCO, respectively. N360CM is still flying Amazon.

On the ABX side, N317CM flew today to SDF under a 9000-number, and N363CM similarly flew to MHR (also a UPS location), so both are likely going to work for UPS during Peak.

All the referenced aircraft are 767-300s.

We will see what they do tonight, which I'm guessing will confirm my expectations.

419AZ should be out the door from conformity and working on Amazon shortly.


Iirc the Florida runs last peak had a tag-on to DFW. Was that UPS last year or 21 air?
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Whiplash6
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:16 am

A guaranteed way to sabotage your business model is to scare all your pilots off to ULCCs by introducing more whipsaw airlines into the mix.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:18 am

And indeed 376AN and 395CM are flying from MIA and MCO, respectively, to PHL. So it's UPS Peak work.

For a time earlier this year, 21 Air was flying these legs with 767-200s, before they got bounced. Now they're flying one aircraft for Aeromex and one for Cargojet.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:06 am

Whiplash6 wrote:
A guaranteed way to sabotage your business model is to scare all your pilots off to ULCCs by introducing more whipsaw airlines into the mix.


UPS is going to lose pilots to ULCCs?
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:11 am

wjcandee wrote:
Whiplash6 wrote:
A guaranteed way to sabotage your business model is to scare all your pilots off to ULCCs by introducing more whipsaw airlines into the mix.


UPS is going to lose pilots to ULCCs?


I’m guessing Whiplash is referring to the Mesa/Dynamic/Swift discussion on the 737s.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:25 am

Ah. Makes sense. But if you read the posts that say that Atlas/Southern is losing 100 more pilots after Peak, there's a point at which you have to try to do something else. The issues at Atlas are entirely self-inflicted. Kalitta and ATI are doing fine hiring people and expanding rapidly, not just because of the higher $$ but I suspect largely because the people who work there feel respected by management and feel part of something good.

Whether it is objectively true depends on your perspective, but at most jobs people will trade a little coin to enjoy coming to work every day. I myself did the opposite at one point, went to a reputed nightmare of an employer because the money was double. It wasn't as bad as the rumors, and the money was nice, but it wasn't until later in my career that I found some very happy workplaces where people felt respected and wondered whether what I had done earlier was worth it. I think it made me employable because folks who knew my employer figured if I could survive there for 10 years, I must have pretty-strong shoulders. But I wouldn't put anyone else through it.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:40 pm

wjcandee wrote:
And indeed 376AN and 395CM are flying from MIA and MCO, respectively, to PHL. So it's UPS Peak work.

For a time earlier this year, 21 Air was flying these legs with 767-200s, before they got bounced. Now they're flying one aircraft for Aeromex and one for Cargojet.


21 Air is on the schedule beginning December 17.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:21 am

Just on the UPS stuff, it's interesting to see how the ATI aircraft are scheduled. PHL-MCO-SDF-MCO-PHL. Same for MIA. So they're getting decent utilization during Peak.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:13 am

wjcandee wrote:
Just on the UPS stuff, it's interesting to see how the ATI aircraft are scheduled. PHL-MCO-SDF-MCO-PHL. Same for MIA. So they're getting decent utilization during Peak.


....and no 727s or 737s this year.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:34 am

MO11 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Just on the UPS stuff, it's interesting to see how the ATI aircraft are scheduled. PHL-MCO-SDF-MCO-PHL. Same for MIA. So they're getting decent utilization during Peak.


....and no 727s or 737s this year.


I know. I miss the 727s. Although I'm sure UPS doesn't.

It doesn't seem that long ago to me that Ryan was flying those USPS-liveried 727s, or that USPS had its own "holiday network", which was a fun mishmash of aircraft. Obviously, they are much better off with their current arrangement.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:37 am

So N1501P, the ex-DL 767-300, is on its way back to the US from TLV. It's now in Shannon, on Turkey Day 2019. Should be here Friday or Saturday. To be N409AZ. Line number 334. Delivered to Gulf Air originally, in 11/1990. 29 years old. As of 2 years ago, hours/cycles were 112228/21118. Low-cycle, high-hours, as expected.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:11 pm

On another note, ABX has been doing a reliable job this year on its Amazon and other work. As Amazon has started pulling aircraft from Atlas due to the latter's challenges in operating its fleet, I started thinking about those 9 DHL-owned 767-200s that DHL pulled from ABX and gave to Atlas to operate in 2012 (5 aircraft) and 2015 (4 aircraft). The first five have around 80,000 hours (give or take a couple thousand) and 25,000 cycles, and the later 4 have around 60,000 hours and low-40,000 cycles. In DHL service, they're seeing around 500 cycles a year, so the later 4 still have at least 10 years before reaching their LOVs, and the first five probably never will. For all its problems, Atlas does a super-meticulous job with filing SDRs; looking at them, the 9 aircraft in general don't seem to be hangar queens. Given that Atlas is having staffing challenges, and the Kalitta crews seem to hate their DHL 767 operation (or, perhaps another way of saying that is that the very-little bitching that comes out of Kalitta these days is confined to some of the folks operating the 767s), I wonder whether some of those aircraft might find their way home to ABX. A ramp-up at ABX would require a change of direction by management, but that can be done surprisingly-quickly when the decision is made to do so.
 
Delta28L
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:31 pm

Does anyone know of new routes for peak season?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:37 pm

N1501P is now at ILN, having arrived on 11/29/19 from conversion at TLV. Will be N409AZ. Looks like it's taking 2-3 months recently for aircraft to go through conformity and painting, so it would be remarkable if ATSG gets this aircraft into service by 12/31/19, which is what it had been asked, apparently, to do. But it shouldn't miss by too much, and hopefully can keep Amazon happy by supplying a spare to cover missions that the aircraft would have handled.

From the photo I saw, it doesn't look too Frankenstein-ish, which is interesting given its time in service. Guess DL kept her frame in good shape.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:27 pm

What's the plan for N773AX?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:12 pm

It was reregistered in the US in mid-September after an early lease return by West Air in early June. But I'm sure you know that.

It could be in conformity for one of the ATSG carriers, or it could be going to someone else, presumably in the US. As I noted, it's taking ILN about 2-3 months to accomplish conformity these days, depending upon the aircraft. If CAM has specific plans for this one, we should know within a couple of weeks.

741AX, which has a few fewer cycles, is still sitting in TPA, as it has for 10 months. It, too, could go in service for someone if they wanted it.
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:32 pm

I heard SFO is coming back to the AMZ network but apparently that’s been pushed back a month at least. I heard of at least one more city coming up but I honestly can’t remember what it is. Either way it looks like there will be new routes early next year.
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:49 am

N419AZ has completed conformity and is going into service at ATI tonight, departing ILN for AFW on a scheduled flight. Formerly N830WE, the last of the ex-NZ 767-300s that CAM acquired from 30 West.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:00 am

wjcandee wrote:
Just on the UPS stuff, it's interesting to see how the ATI aircraft are scheduled. PHL-MCO-SDF-MCO-PHL. Same for MIA. So they're getting decent utilization during Peak.

With the air growth we've seen this year we need to use these aircraft as much as we can....the off peak out and backs don't work. Lots of leases in the system this year....we're going to fly them until the wings fall off.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:15 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Just on the UPS stuff, it's interesting to see how the ATI aircraft are scheduled. PHL-MCO-SDF-MCO-PHL. Same for MIA. So they're getting decent utilization during Peak.

With the air growth we've seen this year we need to use these aircraft as much as we can....the off peak out and backs don't work. Lots of leases in the system this year....we're going to fly them until the wings fall off.


Bravo! I'm sure the owners of these wet-leased aircraft are happy for the utilization.

That's what was always fun about the USPS holiday network. It seemed like they had a list of places that they needed to move stuff to from the "hub", and they just dispatched whatever the next aircraft was to wherever needed service next. I'm sure that wasn't/couldn't be the case, but they just kept them flying and flying and flying and when one broke, they just sent a different one from a different carrier. And given the motley assemblage of aircraft they used, they did break.

So I will be happy to see the WGA aircraft, for example, running hub to hub to hub from now until Christmas.
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:30 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/busi ... e=Homepage

Scroll down in the article to the section on Amazon's gateway at BWI. 10 free articles a month on nyt.com
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:51 pm

wjcandee wrote:
It was reregistered in the US in mid-September after an early lease return by West Air in early June. But I'm sure you know that.

It could be in conformity for one of the ATSG carriers, or it could be going to someone else, presumably in the US. As I noted, it's taking ILN about 2-3 months to accomplish conformity these days, depending upon the aircraft. If CAM has specific plans for this one, we should know within a couple of weeks.

741AX, which has a few fewer cycles, is still sitting in TPA, as it has for 10 months. It, too, could go in service for someone if they wanted it.

I hope to see both of them put in plenty more hours, but I think we are going to run into green time issues on some of the engines sooner rather than later (though they have been performing remarkably well so far). Like the 21 air frame down in Mexico that broke for a week due to engines. Pulling the pre-peak spares to do UPS dedicated flying (and a healthy schedule at that) means even more frames and engines will be needed to pick up any slack and operational hiccups.

Any rumblings yet of Kallitta getting sucked into the Amazon game?
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CALMSP
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:01 pm

Acey559 wrote:
I heard SFO is coming back to the AMZ network but apparently that’s been pushed back a month at least. I heard of at least one more city coming up but I honestly can’t remember what it is. Either way it looks like there will be new routes early next year.


I believe ORD is now in the mix as well.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:09 pm

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
It was reregistered in the US in mid-September after an early lease return by West Air in early June. But I'm sure you know that.

It could be in conformity for one of the ATSG carriers, or it could be going to someone else, presumably in the US. As I noted, it's taking ILN about 2-3 months to accomplish conformity these days, depending upon the aircraft. If CAM has specific plans for this one, we should know within a couple of weeks.

741AX, which has a few fewer cycles, is still sitting in TPA, as it has for 10 months. It, too, could go in service for someone if they wanted it.

I hope to see both of them put in plenty more hours, but I think we are going to run into green time issues on some of the engines sooner rather than later (though they have been performing remarkably well so far). Like the 21 air frame down in Mexico that broke for a week due to engines. Pulling the pre-peak spares to do UPS dedicated flying (and a healthy schedule at that) means even more frames and engines will be needed to pick up any slack and operational hiccups.

Any rumblings yet of Kallitta getting sucked into the Amazon game?


Doesn't DL do the work on ABX and ATI's CF6-80As?

As to the 21 Air planes, 881YV was just A-checked by Cargojet in YYV after 999YV finished its C-check at Stambaugh and was able to sub for it, but they both seem to be having reliability issues all of a sudden. Maybe it's just bad luck or minor issues; we will see. But I do think it's unrealistic for 21Air to try to run that Aeromex service with no spare, which they will apparently be doing while they put one of those two into peak service for Cargojet. That's why a larger operation has greater economy of scale: one spare can cover the potential failures of a number of in-service aircraft.
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:13 pm

Atlas is in freefall right now. Over 100 pilot resignations in December alone. They are going to have to cut back on more flying.
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:59 am

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
It was reregistered in the US in mid-September after an early lease return by West Air in early June. But I'm sure you know that.

It could be in conformity for one of the ATSG carriers, or it could be going to someone else, presumably in the US. As I noted, it's taking ILN about 2-3 months to accomplish conformity these days, depending upon the aircraft. If CAM has specific plans for this one, we should know within a couple of weeks.

741AX, which has a few fewer cycles, is still sitting in TPA, as it has for 10 months. It, too, could go in service for someone if they wanted it.

I hope to see both of them put in plenty more hours, but I think we are going to run into green time issues on some of the engines sooner rather than later (though they have been performing remarkably well so far). Like the 21 air frame down in Mexico that broke for a week due to engines. Pulling the pre-peak spares to do UPS dedicated flying (and a healthy schedule at that) means even more frames and engines will be needed to pick up any slack and operational hiccups.

Any rumblings yet of Kallitta getting sucked into the Amazon game?


Doesn't DL do the work on ABX and ATI's CF6-80As?

As to the 21 Air planes, 881YV was just A-checked by Cargojet in YYV after 999YV finished its C-check at Stambaugh and was able to sub for it, but they both seem to be having reliability issues all of a sudden. Maybe it's just bad luck or minor issues; we will see. But I do think it's unrealistic for 21Air to try to run that Aeromex service with no spare, which they will apparently be doing while they put one of those two into peak service for Cargojet. That's why a larger operation has greater economy of scale: one spare can cover the potential failures of a number of in-service aircraft.

No idea who is doing their engine work. Whoever they are, seeing the reliability so far they are doing a pretty good job but the power plants aren’t getting any newer and utilization seems to be ever increasing. I’m just thinking along the lines of the Kalitta 742 fleet a few peaks back where they had 3 flying, and zero spare JT-9Dsfor them. They were at a point where one engine out would permanently ground a whole airframe. Seems crazy to worry about now but with the perfect storm of 747F reactivations worldwide, the only new power plants going to FX/UPS, passenger carriers holding on to their fleets longer, and them retiring the aircraft with some pretty well used power plants.....

We’ve recently seen the retirement of those 742s, MD-90s and MD-80 fleets partly due to the fact that nobody wants to spend money on complete overhauls, and now nearly 50 aircraft are pulling pretty heavy duty with the Amazon network, that’s a lot of extra strain on the supply.
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:37 am

That makes sense. The CF6-80A was used on the 767-200s and the A310. Obviously, the fleets of both have declined to a fairly-stable number. There are about 70 767-200s active in non-military applications, almost all of which are cargo-converted aircraft. I read that the time between overhauls on the -80As is about 10,000 hours in short-haul service up to 40,000 in long-haul service, which sounds a little to me like about 10,000 cycles. There should be enough competition out there in terms of shops that will work on -80As that the prices should be fair. DL does them. MTU does them. GE does them, along with many others. What I don't have a good sense of is how significant is the pool of engines out there with available time on them for sale or lease, and how many of these guys who trade in engines still focus on the -80A. I'm sure that CAM, who seems to have the biggest pool of 767-200 freighters, has been operating in that engine space to preserve the lease value of its airframes; I just don't have any color on their activities in that regard.

If Lightsabre chimed in here, it might be interesting.
 
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Harvestman
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:38 am

I've noticed that N1511A has been in service for DHL over at least the past couple of weeks instead of AMZ. Looks like it has been alternating between CVG/ORD and CVG/PHX. Not what I would have expected right at the start of peak season...

(Incidentally, this is the second time that I can recall in the past couple of years that an Amazon-leased jet has flown for DHL - N1709A did a few times last summer as well.)
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:09 am

Harvestman wrote:
I've noticed that N1511A has been in service for DHL over at least the past couple of weeks instead of AMZ. Looks like it has been alternating between CVG/ORD and CVG/PHX. Not what I would have expected right at the start of peak season...

(Incidentally, this is the second time that I can recall in the past couple of years that an Amazon-leased jet has flown for DHL - N1709A did a few times last summer as well.)


1511A is not an Amazon dry-lease. It's an Atlas spare. 1709A was originally also not dry-leased to Amazon; it, too, was an Atlas spare. The latter may subsequently have been dry-leased to Amazon in late 2018, but in looking at my notes it's not perfectly-clear. But that is certainly the case as to 1511A.

Atlas is free to use its spares for duty other than Amazon work. Presumably, that's not a good idea if it would affect Amazon work.

Atlas is not free to use Amazon's dry-leased aircraft for any duty other than Amazon flights, without Amazon's permission, which is essentially-never given and accordingly not asked-for.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:16 am

Harvestman: Good catch, by the way.

I do think it's kinda weird that Atlas would operate an extra aircraft for DHL in Peak when every post from the pilot side there suggests that they are having trouble staffing their existing flying, even with the loss of the CMI contracts on 2 of the Amazon aircraft. I wonder whether the fact that N656GT (one of the 9 former ABX 767-200s that Atlas operates for DHL) is down for maintenance is part of the reason, although DHL should normally have a spare in the mix of their schedule.
Last edited by wjcandee on Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:23 am

Acey559 wrote:
I heard SFO is coming back to the AMZ network but apparently that’s been pushed back a month at least. I heard of at least one more city coming up but I honestly can’t remember what it is. Either way it looks like there will be new routes early next year.


I am interested to see what Amazon unleashes after Peak.
 
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Harvestman
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:23 am

Thanks for the clarification, wjcandee. I'm not up to date on which spares are leased to AMZ or not.
It seems like a lot of the older DHL-leased Atlas 767s (N650GT-N659GT) have been down for maintenance lately. A bunch of them were undergoing engine work this summer and fall.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:58 am

Harvestman wrote:
Thanks for the clarification, wjcandee. I'm not up to date on which spares are leased to AMZ or not.
It seems like a lot of the older DHL-leased Atlas 767s (N650GT-N659GT) have been down for maintenance lately. A bunch of them were undergoing engine work this summer and fall.


Right. The four white ones (1709A, 1399A, 1511A and 1619A) were put into service as Atlas-owned spares after conversion, but two of them, I believe, ultimately were acquired by Andromeda (an AAWW leasing subsidiary) and leased to Amazon.

I think that 1709A and 1399A are now both Amazon dry-leases, and 1511A and 1619A are Atlas-owned spares, but don't hold me to it.

I hadn't really been following the Atlas-DHL 767-200s, but I'm a little more-interested in them insofar as if Atlas is offloading aircraft, I'm sure ABX would like the opportunity to fly some or all of them again. Airborne Maintenance and Engineering Services (AMES) seems to be pretty good at gluing these things together and keeping them flying -- witness how well the ABX and ATI 767-200s seem to be handling the significantly-increased operational tempo this fall. So I was pleased to see N656GT being worked on at ILN for the past month or so. (I know that AMES has worked on others of these on and off since they were transferred from ABX to Atlas, but I hadn't noticed a regular flow of them, so it's good to see at least one coming home for some TLC.)
 
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ottergoose
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:08 pm

wjcandee wrote:
MO11 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Just on the UPS stuff, it's interesting to see how the ATI aircraft are scheduled. PHL-MCO-SDF-MCO-PHL. Same for MIA. So they're getting decent utilization during Peak.


....and no 727s or 737s this year.


I know. I miss the 727s. Although I'm sure UPS doesn't.

It doesn't seem that long ago to me that Ryan was flying those USPS-liveried 727s, or that USPS had its own "holiday network", which was a fun mishmash of aircraft. Obviously, they are much better off with their current arrangement.


I know we're starting to stray a bit (perhaps there ought to be a Peak 2019 thread?), but, looks like an IFL 727 is operating for UPS running SDF-RIV-SDF now. Flight number (925) is same as a flight operated by UPS last week.

FedEx appears to have six 744s operating on their behalf out of Memphis now (four from Atlas, two from Kalitta).
 
777Mech
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:27 pm

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
I hope to see both of them put in plenty more hours, but I think we are going to run into green time issues on some of the engines sooner rather than later (though they have been performing remarkably well so far). Like the 21 air frame down in Mexico that broke for a week due to engines. Pulling the pre-peak spares to do UPS dedicated flying (and a healthy schedule at that) means even more frames and engines will be needed to pick up any slack and operational hiccups.

Any rumblings yet of Kallitta getting sucked into the Amazon game?


Doesn't DL do the work on ABX and ATI's CF6-80As?

As to the 21 Air planes, 881YV was just A-checked by Cargojet in YYV after 999YV finished its C-check at Stambaugh and was able to sub for it, but they both seem to be having reliability issues all of a sudden. Maybe it's just bad luck or minor issues; we will see. But I do think it's unrealistic for 21Air to try to run that Aeromex service with no spare, which they will apparently be doing while they put one of those two into peak service for Cargojet. That's why a larger operation has greater economy of scale: one spare can cover the potential failures of a number of in-service aircraft.

No idea who is doing their engine work. Whoever they are, seeing the reliability so far they are doing a pretty good job but the power plants aren’t getting any newer and utilization seems to be ever increasing. I’m just thinking along the lines of the Kalitta 742 fleet a few peaks back where they had 3 flying, and zero spare JT-9Dsfor them. They were at a point where one engine out would permanently ground a whole airframe. Seems crazy to worry about now but with the perfect storm of 747F reactivations worldwide, the only new power plants going to FX/UPS, passenger carriers holding on to their fleets longer, and them retiring the aircraft with some pretty well used power plants.....

We’ve recently seen the retirement of those 742s, MD-90s and MD-80 fleets partly due to the fact that nobody wants to spend money on complete overhauls, and now nearly 50 aircraft are pulling pretty heavy duty with the Amazon network, that’s a lot of extra strain on the supply.


DL is indeed doing the overhauls on the A and C2 engines for ATI and the As for ABX.
 
AV8AJET
Posts: 1180
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:10 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:42 pm

[/quote]The four white ones (1709A, 1399A, 1511A and 1619A) were put into service as Atlas-owned spares after conversion, but two of them, I believe, ultimately were acquired by Andromeda (an AAWW leasing subsidiary) and leased to Amazon.

I think that 1709A and 1399A are now both Amazon dry-leases, and 1511A and 1619A are Atlas-owned spares, but don't hold me to it.[/quote]
Also a while tail N663GT has also been delivered to Atlas
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8963
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:59 am

Looks like N1439A is done with conformity at RFD (AAR?) and flew tonight (12/3/19) to ILN under an ATI Amazon ferry flight number (ATN1997).

So that's 2 of Atlas's Amazon leased aircraft now being operated by ATI.
 
n801dm
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:12 am

B737-800BCF N5179A has completed conversion and is on the way to USA
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8963
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:08 am

n801dm wrote:
B737-800BCF N5179A has completed conversion and is on the way to USA


LIke they have any use for them or ability to staff them...

Thanks for the heads-up, N801DM! Good catch!

Maybe Southern will get its act together. Or maybe it won't. I guess Amazon has committed to a number of these birds. We'll see what they ultimately do with them.

UPDATE: Looks like it diverted back to CTS. But it will get here eventually...
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8963
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:00 am

777Mech wrote:

DL is indeed doing the overhauls on the A and C2 engines for ATI and the As for ABX.


Thanks for the knowledgeable information!

I confess I know less about engine overhauls than I should. Are these complete overhauls that are done every 10k-40k hours depending on stage length? Or are there more-minimal overhauls that make the engine good for less time? If they are still doing complete overhauls, it says something, which is why I am curious.
 
777Mech
Posts: 958
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:02 am

wjcandee wrote:
777Mech wrote:

DL is indeed doing the overhauls on the A and C2 engines for ATI and the As for ABX.


Thanks for the knowledgeable information!

I confess I know less about engine overhauls than I should. Are these complete overhauls that are done every 10k-40k hours depending on stage length? Or are there more-minimal overhauls that make the engine good for less time? If they are still doing complete overhauls, it says something, which is why I am curious.


I believe the C2s are getting full overhauls, but the A2s are getting a little bit of both minimal penetration work like engine mods and a few others are getting full overhauls.

As a side note, CAM, ATI, ABX, FedEx, UPS, and STAR Air use DTO to overhaul their CF6s.
 
MO11
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:31 pm

wjcandee wrote:
n801dm wrote:
B737-800BCF N5179A has completed conversion and is on the way to USA


LIke they have any use for them or ability to staff them...

Thanks for the heads-up, N801DM! Good catch!

Maybe Southern will get its act together. Or maybe it won't. I guess Amazon has committed to a number of these birds. We'll see what they ultimately do with them.



N5179A was signed for yesterday: GECAS/Southern Air/Amazon.com
 
User avatar
ottergoose
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:04 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:24 pm

ottergoose wrote:
FedEx appears to have six 744s operating on their behalf out of Memphis now (four from Atlas, two from Kalitta).


Correction: the Kalitta 744s out of MEM are flying for USPS, not FedEx.
 
MO11
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:43 pm

N419AZ was signed for yesterday (12/4).
 
GoodRide
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:15 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:28 pm

It could be absolutely nothing, but as of today the ATI pilot group has now been sent two uniform surveys from HR inquiring about likes/dislikes of current uniforms, sizing etc. The first one was almost a year ago, and was focused on likes and dislikes of current uniforms etc. There was no follow up on the results from that. The second was specifically inquiring about sizing, favorite brands and fit, preferred sleeve length etc. Aside from the surveys, there’s been no discussion around an imminent uniform change that I’m aware of.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8963
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:30 am

ottergoose wrote:
ottergoose wrote:
FedEx appears to have six 744s operating on their behalf out of Memphis now (four from Atlas, two from Kalitta).


Correction: the Kalitta 744s out of MEM are flying for USPS, not FedEx.


Well, FedEx carries a lot of USPS, but I'm guessing those K4 birds are taking material over to the Sandbox for troops. They're like APO flights. It comes to MEM on FedEx through its USPS contracts, then gets on the 747s to the Middle East and other locations.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8963
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:20 pm

Anybody got any photos of N360CM after it recently spent just a couple of days at ROW. I'm assuming that that had something to do with her appearance, but perhaps it was just for some kind of quick mechanical thing. That seems unlikely, though.

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