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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:25 am

Now this is a first - I just had an Amazon order shipped via UPS Ground, and it appears to be shipping from Gilbert, Arizona. The item was sold and shipped by Amazon. I wonder if this could be a seasonal warehouse or if it is being dropshipped from a supplier.
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:09 am

Texas-based aircraft broker/liquidator Jetran had its Gulfstream V in ILN for a little over an hour today. They're the folks that purchased/optioned all the remaining AA 767-300s as they retire, and subsequently did a deal by which they optioned almost all of them to ATSG's CAM. So CAM now controls about 20 of them, 4 or 5 of which CAM has already acquired. Jetran is/was owned and operated by a successful Texas oilman and his friend who had his own company that did the same thing. But with the oil money behind it, Jetran can do deals for large numbers of aircraft at discount prices; they did a huge deal after 9/11 to acquire about 90 US Airways aircraft and resell them. Over the years, CAM has purchased several aircraft from/through Jetran, including recently N354AA outside of the 20-aircraft AA deal. So when their G-V comes in from Texas and stops in ILN for 1.5 hours and then takes off on a 14-hour flight tor Narita, we curious types go, "Hmmm..." Some ATSG and/or Jetran executives going to look at those ANA 767-300ERs, maybe? Turning on the patented SPECulator, ANA has 11 767-300Fs and BCFs, but it stands to reason that CAM could make deals on its own for any of those if ANA wanted to unload them, but there are like 23 767-300ER pax aircraft still on their roster. Very-roughly about half of them are probably too young to convert, but very-roughly about half would seem to be a good age, at least, to convert. I don't know what ANA's fleet plan is as the 787s continue to come aboard, but one could certainly imagine that a Jetran might see some short-and-longer-term opportunities with that fleet, with CAM as a potential partner/purchaser. JAL has a smaller fleet of conversion-age 767-300ERs, too. And who knows what other potential deals for potential customers CAM could be thinking of. If UPS is liking how their CAM-converted 767-300 dry lease program is starting out, hmmm... I notice that N392UP, the first one in service, has done about 30 flights around Europe, apparently based at CGN, and if they can ramp up a fair number of conversions and already-converted aircraft quickly, hmmm... And Amazon is now, amazingly, pretty-close to its fulfilling its plan for 50 dry-leased 767s (with a supporting cast of about another 6 operating spares), and those all seem to be very-busy, so who knows what Amazon's future requirements might be.

Anyway, I noticed the flight and made an EWAG that something is at least being talked about. Of course, there are 100 discussions that go nowhere for every deal that actually makes. But to get on a G-V for 14 hours, somebody has to at least see a possibility of something.

Or I could be totally and completely wrong.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:37 pm

And it looks like the next Amazon-dry-leased conversion, N419AZ, is done with conformity and is going for a test flight today. Formerly N830WE, the last of the 3 ex-NZ 767-300s that CAM bought from aircraft broker/lessor 30 West, which had acquired them from NZ. LN558. Delivered November 1994, so exactly 25 years old. This frame was done with post-conversion paint on September 10, 2019, so conformity has taken about 7 weeks. Most likely this is because ILN is just so incredibly-busy and/or because Amazon didn't need it before now.
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:25 pm

N1049A is now sporting a livery promoting Amazon's Jack Ryan/Prime Video
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:02 am

BTVB6Flyer wrote:
N1049A is now sporting a livery promoting Amazon's Jack Ryan/Prime Video


Cool. Must be a sticker/wrapping, because 1049A never went for paint anywhere during its 7-week conformity stay at ILN, and all it takes is a gander at 360CM to see that there is no professional painting capability at ILN. (They're a wonderful repair operation, but they ain't painters.) 1049A did spend from Sunday night to Wednesday afternoon this week (e.g. 10/27 to 10/30/19) at ILN. Perhaps it was wrapped/stickered then. (That said, folks like Landlocked Aviation will send a painting crew to your location, but it's an unnecessary hassle when a full paint shop is available an hour or so of flying time away.)

Looking forward to a photo!
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:17 am

1337Delta764 wrote:
Now this is a first - I just had an Amazon order shipped via UPS Ground, and it appears to be shipping from Gilbert, Arizona. The item was sold and shipped by Amazon. I wonder if this could be a seasonal warehouse or if it is being dropshipped from a supplier.


I’m guessing this was drop shipped. I’ve seen Amazon have items drop shipped from a manufacturer’s warehouse on the Amazon UPS account. I’ve seen it a few times, with a fire extinguisher and dairy carafes. The packaging clearly wasn’t the standard Amazon packaging and there was a packing slip included, which I rarely see Amazon do anymore.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:05 pm

It seems like FedEx has recently been winning a lot of brick and mortar retailers recently considering that they pulled away from Amazon. Here is my list of what carriers major brick and mortar retailers use:

Both UPS and FedEx:
  • Kohl's
  • Best Buy

UPS Only
  • Macy's (was previously both, dropped FedEx last year)
  • JCPenney
  • Sears

FedEx Only
  • Walmart
  • Target (switched from UPS this year)
  • Dillard's
  • Stein Mart (switched from UPS this year)

Note that I am not counting USPS since many will use SurePost, Mail Innovations, or SmartPost.
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:49 pm

FedEx is trying to move Smartpost to all-Home Delivery, cutting out the USPS. It was a horrible product anyway. The better thing would have been to fully-integrate the line-haul with Ground, separate it at the terminus, process it quickly and get it to the post offices expeditiously, and it could have been a good product. UPS could actually have their USPS product deliver the same day as their organic delivery, but they hold it a day so it's doesn't surpass their organic product (i.e they bring it to the DDU in the afternoon rather than the morning thus ensuring that it's delivered the following day).
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:12 pm

wjcandee wrote:
UPS could actually have their USPS product deliver the same day as their organic delivery, but they hold it a day so it's doesn't surpass their organic product (i.e they bring it to the DDU in the afternoon rather than the morning thus ensuring that it's delivered the following day).


I doubt that UPS is holding the USPS product purposefully to deliver the same day as the organic delivery. UPS Surepost (the product that moves in the ground system and has combination UPS Ground + USPS label.) appears to move and be delivered with all the normal ground packages, its just that the delivery point for UPS is the USPS DDU. To have Surepost delivered by USPS on the same day as an organic ground package, they'd have to expedite the Surepost packages out of their delivery depot around 2 or 3 am while they're still sorting packages and receiving new ground packages to be sorted. That'd cost more for what is supposed to be an less costly product. (I'm not sure when USPS begins their daily sort, but I'd guess 7 am or so, before many of the UPS delivery vehicles have left the depot.)

One thing that UPS does do to improve the Surepost product is bypass the USPS completely and deliver it as a UPS ground package. I've had this happen multiple times. It is something that they'll do if they're already "in the area", as well as to appease the Teamsters, their union. (From what I read the teamsters aren't thrilled about USPS handling the last mile.) Moving Surepost to be delivered by organic ground is something that I'd also expect that they do for cost savings, if they're already delivering something else at that address, why not also deliver the Surepost package as well? The driver/driver helper is already getting out of the truck at that address to deliver a package, whats one more package?

One final thought, UPS delivery vehicles handle air and ground packages, so usually the morning is going to be more dedicated to delivering the air packages which usually has a higher delivery commitment. That need to deliver air in the morning means Surepost gets pushed to the afternoon.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:18 pm

USAirKid -- correct. Point being that if they wanted to deliver Surepost in as timely a fashion, they could sort it out and deliver it separately. They're already redirecting it to their own delivery route if they will be in the area (or don't need the extra help delivering the volume, as during Peak). Instead, they just make the DDU a regular route stop in most cases. There are obviously multiple reasons for that; just making the point that it is done intentionally.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:20 pm

USAirKid wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
UPS could actually have their USPS product deliver the same day as their organic delivery, but they hold it a day so it's doesn't surpass their organic product (i.e they bring it to the DDU in the afternoon rather than the morning thus ensuring that it's delivered the following day).


I doubt that UPS is holding the USPS product purposefully to deliver the same day as the organic delivery. UPS Surepost (the product that moves in the ground system and has combination UPS Ground + USPS label.) appears to move and be delivered with all the normal ground packages, its just that the delivery point for UPS is the USPS DDU. To have Surepost delivered by USPS on the same day as an organic ground package, they'd have to expedite the Surepost packages out of their delivery depot around 2 or 3 am while they're still sorting packages and receiving new ground packages to be sorted. That'd cost more for what is supposed to be an less costly product. (I'm not sure when USPS begins their daily sort, but I'd guess 7 am or so, before many of the UPS delivery vehicles have left the depot.)

One thing that UPS does do to improve the Surepost product is bypass the USPS completely and deliver it as a UPS ground package. I've had this happen multiple times. It is something that they'll do if they're already "in the area", as well as to appease the Teamsters, their union. (From what I read the teamsters aren't thrilled about USPS handling the last mile.) Moving Surepost to be delivered by organic ground is something that I'd also expect that they do for cost savings, if they're already delivering something else at that address, why not also deliver the Surepost package as well? The driver/driver helper is already getting out of the truck at that address to deliver a package, whats one more package?

One final thought, UPS delivery vehicles handle air and ground packages, so usually the morning is going to be more dedicated to delivering the air packages which usually has a higher delivery commitment. That need to deliver air in the morning means Surepost gets pushed to the afternoon.


Also, the USPS will soon be delivering SurePost and Mail Innovations on Sunday for UPS. Apparently UPS is cozying up with the USPS while FedEx is pulling away. I wonder if this will jeopardize FedEx's chances and give UPS an advantage when the Priority Mail and Express contract comes up for bid.
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USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:03 am

1337Delta764 wrote:
Also, the USPS will soon be delivering SurePost and Mail Innovations on Sunday for UPS. Apparently UPS is cozying up with the USPS while FedEx is pulling away. I wonder if this will jeopardize FedEx's chances and give UPS an advantage when the Priority Mail and Express contract comes up for bid.


I wonder if UPS has the capacity to take on the Priority Mail and Express contract? They're currently leading in planes left and right, although I don't know if the limiting factor is capacity for their overnight or two day product.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:05 am

wjcandee wrote:
USAirKid -- correct. Point being that if they wanted to deliver Surepost in as timely a fashion, they could sort it out and deliver it separately. They're already redirecting it to their own delivery route if they will be in the area (or don't need the extra help delivering the volume, as during Peak). Instead, they just make the DDU a regular route stop in most cases. There are obviously multiple reasons for that; just making the point that it is done intentionally.


Yeah its product differentiation. They don't want it to impinge on the ground product's market. Its just like how a passenger airline could provide more leg room for everyone, they just won't because it'll cost them and they want people to buy the better product.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:12 am

USAirKid wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:
Also, the USPS will soon be delivering SurePost and Mail Innovations on Sunday for UPS. Apparently UPS is cozying up with the USPS while FedEx is pulling away. I wonder if this will jeopardize FedEx's chances and give UPS an advantage when the Priority Mail and Express contract comes up for bid.


I wonder if UPS has the capacity to take on the Priority Mail and Express contract? They're currently leading in planes left and right, although I don't know if the limiting factor is capacity for their overnight or two day product.


I know in e-commerce, Amazon is moving towards one-day shipping, and that means more of the capacity will shift from 2nd Day Air to Next Day Air. This can potentially free some 2nd Day Air capacity for Priority Mail. As for Priority Mail Express, it is somewhat of a niche product, since it isn't widely used in e-commerce. Some Amazon sellers who use Seller Fulfilled Prime might use it, but most SFP sellers actually only do Regional SFP, where the Prime badge is only displayed to buyers where the product can reach the customer in two days by UPS/FedEx Ground. Some will also only enable SFP Wednesday-Friday to allow the use of USPS Priority Mail, since SFP does not require weekend delivery and thus Amazon will allow the weekend for the package to travel where it can be delivered the next Monday.
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:41 pm

It appears Amazon has just opened its second Sortation Center in the Phoenix area, AZA5. I'm surprised there was no public announcement about it. I just got a package shipped from PHX6 and it was routed via AZA5 instead of PHX8. I'm not actually sure if AZA5 replaces PHX8 or not. PHX8's building space is shared with the PHX7 Non-Sortable fulfillment center, so perhaps Amazon might have opened a second Sortation Center to handle the increased demand (over the summer I got a few items shipped from PHX6 and PHX7 via UPS Ground). I actually wonder if AZA5 is dedicated to AMZL, while PHX8 will do the USPS-bound packages.
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Phoenix757767
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:08 am

Here is an odd one. I ordered I Braun razor, I live in CLT, so far it goes from Sterling, VA to Teterboro, NJ.

Anyone know why it would take such an odd route?
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:51 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
Here is an odd one. I ordered I Braun razor, I live in CLT, so far it goes from Sterling, VA to Teterboro, NJ.

Anyone know why it would take such an odd route?


I have had odd routings before. For some unknown reason once I had from ONT6 in Moreno Valley from ONT to CVG and then back to PHX. This only occurred once since normally those go by ground to the Phoenix area (were the linehaul drivers on strike?). Also, one time I had a package shipped from the Seattle area to CVG and then back to PHX (Amazon didn't fly PDX-PHX at the time).

Some long-distance ground routes to the Phoenix area that appear to still be operating are those from OAK4 (Tracy, CA), SMF1 (Sacramento, CA), FAT1 (Fresno, CA), and SLC1 (Salt Lake City, UT). I wonder in the case of OAK4 and SMF1 Amazon will bring back their SCK-PHX flight. Other long distance ground routes that I remember Amazon operating to the Phoenix area are one of the fulfillment centers in Fort Worth, TX (can't remember which one exactly), SAT2 in San Marcos, TX (this was probably the longest of all not counting the ground route from CVG), DEN2 in Aurora, CO, and DEN3 in Thornton, CO; not sure if these are still operating since I haven't got packages from these warehouses in a while.

Also, there is one more really long ground route from the CVG area. This route is used for Zappos, non-Prime, as well as for shipping to addresses that don't accept deliveries on weekends allowing for the weekend to travel.
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Phoenix757767
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:09 am

I don’t think they fly Teterboro to CLT though.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:01 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
I don’t think they fly Teterboro to CLT though.


Right. They likely will drive it from Teterboro (a ground location) to CLT. 4 hour drive from Sterling to Teterboro.
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:18 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
I don’t think they fly Teterboro to CLT though.


Right. They likely will drive it from Teterboro (a ground location) to CLT. 4 hour drive from Sterling to Teterboro.

That’s a pretty far drive for a Tuesday delivery
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:11 pm

So it went from Teterboro, NJ to Concord, NC so far.
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:47 am

I think I know what might explain why Amazon is now less frequently using ParcelPool/International Bridge to Puerto Rico for Prime shipments in favor of UPS and USPS Priority Mail - apparently International Bridge required Amazon to have enough packages to fill their pallet before they can ship. This might have explained the delays in the fulfillment process in the past with Amazon shipping to Alaska/Hawaii/Puerto Rico. With Amazon now having a tighter delivery schedule for its Prime shipments to Alaska/Hawaii/Puerto Rico, Amazon needs to use more efficient shipping methods such as UPS 2nd Day/Next Day Air or USPS Priority Mail than can ship more quickly.
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:08 am

1337Delta764 wrote:
With Amazon now having a tighter delivery schedule for its Prime shipments to Alaska/Hawaii/Puerto Rico, Amazon needs to use more efficient shipping methods such as UPS 2nd Day/Next Day Air or USPS Priority Mail than can ship more quickly.


Interesting observation. Your logic explains also why Amazon now has organic lift 1x daily to ANC from SEA (on ATI), and now 2x daily to HNL from RIV (on GTI). All on 767-300s. Also, that Aloha Cargo flight LAX-HNL used to, at least, have a bunch of Amazon on it. There's a lot of lift ex-Florida for SJU on NAC, Amerijet, etc, and ex-CVG on DHL, but that's gonna all be forwarders as you point out.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:11 am

Note that if UPS wants to win the Priority Mail and Express contract, they may need to add daytime lift. With FedEx's current operation, most of the Priority Mail is flown on the daytime flights, while most of the FedEx packages and Priority Mail Express are flown on the overnight flights.
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:41 am

1337Delta764 wrote:
Note that if UPS wants to win the Priority Mail and Express contract, they may need to add daytime lift. With FedEx's current operation, most of the Priority Mail is flown on the daytime flights, while most of the FedEx packages and Priority Mail Express are flown on the overnight flights.


This is a good point.
 
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Harvestman
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:52 am

For those of you keeping score at home, N1409A is currently undergoing an engine replacement at CVG.
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:48 am

Curious as to the board’s thoughts on this article from a few months back by Brittain Ladd suggesting Amazon is a viable contender for the USPS contract.

https://observer.com/2019/06/amazon-us- ... quisition/

The author raises some compelling points. Of note, Ladd published an article in 2016 (which he claims to have written in 2013) musing that Amazon would look to expand its grocery portfolio with an acquisition of Whole Foods. The acquisition came to fruition a year later. I am in no way suggesting he came up with the idea, but he’s the only blogger I’ve come across of who has written about Amazon’s grocery strategy and logistics ambitions - and WFM actually came true.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/beautifu ... ttain-ladd

Ladd was recently quoted in an article, which I happened to notice evoked a snide subtweet comment from SVP Dave Clark on Twitter. Curiously, it was the first article I’ve read which refers to Ladd as a former Amazon senior manager who specialized in logistics and operations. Any way you want to chop it up, it’s hard not to infer there is personal/professional history between Clark and Ladd somewhere.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... nstoppable

https://twitter.com/davehclark/status/1 ... 21408?s=21

Given Amazon’s penchant for being such a secretive company, and at least one of his predictions coming true, it makes me wonder what else this guy knows - and whether blogging about it is what’s drawing the ire of the SVP of Worldwide Operations.

https://observer.com/2019/05/amazon-who ... omination/

To add fuel to the USPS theory, Amazon Air has a job posting for Senior Account Manager, Cargo Management.

“The Senior Account Manager, Cargo Management will be responsible for owning all facets for a large, strategic account.”

https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/955859/ ... management

If you ask me, if sounds like a foreshadowing that Amazon Air intends to fly more than just Amazon freight.

But whose?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:06 am

Very interesting and thoughtful post. At least for now. I would say, "Nah." Too limited a network, too consumed with their own freight. And while it might offset their payments to USPS, I think various politicians would make a lot of hay about it.
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:32 am

I believe the contract with FedEx runs until September 29, 2024. In Amazon years, that’s an eternity. Also, do you think there’s any merit to the idea of that Amazon could repair some of the sentiment in Washington by selling the idea of using its logistics expertise to help the USPS stop the bleeding and perhaps turn a profit?
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:43 am

WJ and board, here’s an article which I believe provides, IMHO, the most well-reasoned thesis into Amazon’s logistics ambitions. Part 2 hasn’t come out..who knows if it ever will at this point.

https://medium.com/@itamarzur/make-no-m ... 47cf6b6b0c
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:23 am

GoodRide wrote:
I believe the contract with FedEx runs until September 29, 2024. In Amazon years, that’s an eternity. Also, do you think there’s any merit to the idea of that Amazon could repair some of the sentiment in Washington by selling the idea of using its logistics expertise to help the USPS stop the bleeding and perhaps turn a profit?


It wouldn't be perceived that way, and reality doesn't matter: Amazon is a target for the same reason Walmart went from media darling to a target: they dared to sell groceries, and the UFCWU wants them out of that segment. All of a sudden they "mistreat" their workers, blah, blah. They "monopolize" the sales platform. (Really? Are Walmart and Target and EBay and a zillion others not competitors? Amazon has the share it has because it's the best platform with the best service, period. B&N went bye-bye because Amazon was better. No other reason. It's stupid.) Amazon was USPS's biggest customer, and Trump scared them with all this talk about them building their business on the back of the USPS and taking advantage of USPS's "too-low" prices. So Amazon said, "Okay. See ya." and is reducing USPS's share of its business, hurting USPS's profitability. It was just stupid: tell Amazon something that makes them concerned you will disrupt their business, and they find a way around it by doing it themselves.

So, no, even if the pitch were true, no politician would care. Because politicians don't care about the truth. It's a requirement of the job.
 
travaz
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:47 pm

In reality the person who controls Amazons fate is the consumer. The list of huge successful companies that are no longer in business is long. As long as Amazon keeps the end user happy they will continue thier rise. The idea of Amazon taking over USPS has some merit in my eyes. The days of first class letters are long dead. USPS has become the Google of advertising (without the revenue) stuffing your inbox (mailbox) with useless advert circulars. I am all for making Government smaller and getting our spending reduced. This could be a good way to reduce federal liabilities. There is no absolute power in retailing, one slip up or a new startup could put a dent in Amazon's power. I think Amazon is going to buy one of thier current aircraft providers and jump into the freight business with both feet, but only after they have the whole system to manage in place. This thread is very facinatinating in many ways. Aviation is obviously the draw but IMHO Aviation for Amazon is but a means to an end.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:09 pm

And our discussion about Amazon being a target due to selling groceries is going to get put to the test: Amazon apparently plans to open a regular (i.e. not Whole Foods) grocery store in the LA area. Let's see how the NY City Council gets persuaded to find ways to keep them out of the City and the national Dems ratchet up pressure on them due to pressure from the UFCWU.

More importantly, I see the Jetran folks are coming to ILN tomorrow, this time in their black Piaggio P180, N50JJ. Kewl...
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:17 pm

UPS signed for N391UP yesterday.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:10 pm

Yes. Delivered 11/21/19 to SDF from ILN. To-be-394UP is still sitting, already painted, in ILN, getting ready. There is also a second ex-ANA Cargo BCF now at ILN, which presumably will go to paint soon. Hasn't yet been reregistered in the US (serial 24632).

And 363UP finally made it through the flat-panel upgrade and was redelivered to UPS. Obviously something didn't go right with it, because it was in ILN for like 2 months, with multiple test flights weeks apart. The other flat-panel upgrades seem to have gone smoothly, usually taking 2-ish weeks. I don't see any new UPS aircraft at ILN; let's hope that UPS hasn't moved the upgrade work to a different vendor. Or maybe they're just pausing because they don't want 1-2 aircraft out of service during peak.
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:54 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Or maybe they're just pausing because they don't want 1-2 aircraft out of service during peak.
Exactly. The line(s) will be resumed in January.
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:25 pm

1337Delta764 wrote:
Note that if UPS wants to win the Priority Mail and Express contract, they may need to add daytime lift. With FedEx's current operation, most of the Priority Mail is flown on the daytime flights, while most of the FedEx packages and Priority Mail Express are flown on the overnight flights.

We have a ton of daytime lift. SDF day sort is quickly becoming the size of the night sort. We just truck a lot more on the inbound and outbound. If you can get the trailer out by 6, that gives you 6-7 hours to reach a night sort. And another 3 hour transit time at max from there to the preloads.

Also UPS already carries mail, and a lot of it at that. Same set up as FX. Don’t know weight wise how much more they carry than us. But I can promise you we get a good chunk
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:53 pm

Question has shipping for the holidays picked up yet?? Or is it still the regular daily numbers??
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:20 am

N1501P (to be N409AZ) did a 3-hour test flight today ex-TLV. Presumably will be on its way home shortly. That will be the last Amazon 767-300 conversion this year -- totaling 6.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:21 am

UPS757Pilot wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Or maybe they're just pausing because they don't want 1-2 aircraft out of service during peak.
Exactly. The line(s) will be resumed in January.


Thanks. I had hoped that's what it was.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:29 pm

CAM signed for N394AN yesterday.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:11 pm

MO11 wrote:
CAM signed for N394AN yesterday.


Interesting that they haven't sent N381AN (signed for 4/29/19) or N379AA (signed for 6/11/19) over for conversion yet. I guess they try to just-in-time it as much as possible so as to control cash flow. There are now 6 retired ex-AA 767-300s sitting in ROW of which CAM has signed for 3; CAM also has the option on basically the whole retiring fleet.

Also, the Jetran folks appear to have flown over to Japan recently with some ATSG folks. Maybe it was just to look at the latest-received ANA Cargo BCF, or maybe it was with something else in mind...
 
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Acey559
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:14 am

I heard a rumor today regarding a shake-up in the AMZ flying. There have been rumblings that with the Atlas aircraft shifting around and Southern having issues staffing their 737s, Amazon is considering adding Swift Air and Dynamic to the fray. Swift would cover the 737 and Dynamic will operate the 767. Just a rumor at this point but it seems to be gaining traction by the few people I have spoken to. Time will tell.
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:17 am

I personally think that whole 737 program is a goatrope, so I'm not sure switching it to Swift is the answer. Would they be any less hinky than Southern? Would they be able to staff the whole fleet? Watching Swift struggle just to put 4 767s in the air in the charter opportunity of the century when Thomas Cook went under and the British Government was hiring anybody they could find to fly repatriation flights doesn't bode well for their ability to run a reliable track-charter-style operation for Amazon.

Dynamic? You mean the guys who couldn't successfully operate two 767s for 21 Air? Atlas is a mess, but to me that's out of the frying pan and into the fire. Why not hire Skylease if you're gonna hire Dynamic? Dynamic has no demonstrated ability to handle a track charter operation of this size. I would have to imagine more aircraft at ABX Air, even with all of its problems, before anyone would/should bring Dynamic aboard to try to handle 20 aircraft. Fact is that ABX, despite all the bitching on forums like APC and a demonstrated ability to strangle a golden goose, flies their missions very-reliably. An opportunity for another 20 aircraft should force ATSG management to just bite the bullet and straighten the crap out at ABX. Or, hell, maybe even Omni would want to fly them. But Dynamic? Why would Amazon want to borrow that trouble?

At the time they were doing Project Alpha, Northern was the operator, and they fly both 767s and 737s. IIRC, their owner has a relationship with Mr. Bezos, although I highly-doubt he is involved in any way in the day-to-day at Amazon Air. Whether they could staff up with sufficient-quality pilots is a question, but that's a question applicable to the other two operators mentioned.

Altlas's hiring and training is under extreme scrutiny by the NTSB and others after their Houston accident flying an Amazon 767, and Amazon should at least be aware that some "safety experts" are talking about the relationship between it and its carriers as something to consider as affecting safety. (Which seems stupid to me, but there it is.) Going down in quality and reputation with the carriers it hires is just going to throw gasoline on that fire and maybe put them into litigation/regulatory-action that they really don't need. Again, why borrow the trouble?

But I have been proven completely-wrong before, and I will be again. Hopefully this is just the kind of stuff you're gonna hear while you're now Flying the Friendly Skies.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:31 am

sunking737 wrote:
Question has shipping for the holidays picked up yet?? Or is it still the regular daily numbers??

Picking up....the real fun starts Friday though.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:33 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
Question has shipping for the holidays picked up yet?? Or is it still the regular daily numbers??

Picking up....the real fun starts Friday though.


Interesting how many people are sending packages already. The line at my Post Office this afternoon with people dropping off Priority Mail packages was insane. Didn't think that aspect of it would start this early.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:49 am

wjcandee wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
Question has shipping for the holidays picked up yet?? Or is it still the regular daily numbers??

Picking up....the real fun starts Friday though.


Interesting how many people are sending packages already. The line at my Post Office this afternoon with people dropping off Priority Mail packages was insane. Didn't think that aspect of it would start this early.

One less week this year so hopefully people are being proactive. If they're not I'm not going to sleep until Christmas :bomb: .
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:42 pm

Acey559 wrote:
I heard a rumor today regarding a shake-up in the AMZ flying. There have been rumblings that with the Atlas aircraft shifting around and Southern having issues staffing their 737s, Amazon is considering adding Swift Air and Dynamic to the fray. Swift would cover the 737 and Dynamic will operate the 767. Just a rumor at this point but it seems to be gaining traction by the few people I have spoken to. Time will tell.


Eastern has had quite the workout lately providing lift for the Max groundings and repatriation services when Thomas Cook went belly up.

I suppose if Atlas has their metal sent to Dynamic, it might be about as successful. If Dynamic needs to source their own freighters, no chance in hell of it working well. Most of their 763s are RR powered and there is no STC for cargo conversion for them. Are Dynamic’s pilots part of any union?

Who wants to bite the bullet and start the peak lift thread?
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CRJ200flyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:51 pm

I’m baffled how Swift would recruit pilots either. I’ve heard Southern Air is having trouble recruiting pilots - Well when its year 12 (maximum) 737 first officer pay is less than year three at Frontier, year four at Allegiant, and year nine at Sun Country, who would go or stay there? And now Swift Air might be brought in? Swift Air first officer pay is passed by Allegiant, Frontier and Sun Country in year two, and caps at an extreme industry low of $81/hour.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:05 pm

To put a finer point on it, on the 737s, Swift's 12-year FO hourly rate is $1 more than Southern's FIRST year hourly rate, and the top Southern FO rate is $32 per hour more than Swift's. 52 hours guarantee at Swift and 62 hours guarantee at Southern (after first year). Southern requires 1000 hours TT, Swift requires 2500. Swift does pay a hiring bonus and a couple of others.

No matter how you look at it, it should be easier for Southern to find and keep 737 pilots than Swift, other than the completely-toxic work environment at AAWW.

This from comparing stuff on APC, which may or may not be current.

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