xorrygva wrote:

As mentioned by Kottok, next non-European flight to be announced in the coming months is likely IKA-GVA with Qeshm Air (subject to gov. approvals).

GVA is hopeful to announce another intercontinental service ahead of the opening of the new long-haul terminal in Q4 2020, discussions with the airline is well advanced. I personally believe that it will be CX but let's see

Would make sense as GVA is the biggest unserved European market from HKG. But given the fact that CX will increase seat capacity in ZRH and are looking to expand into Central/Eastern Europe, I doubt it's going to be CX. Maybe ANA's 788 which is very premium-heavy but low in overall capacity? Seems like the perfect aircraft for GVA. LHG has a strategic joint venture with ANA between Japan and Europe, so they could share their corporate accounts and LX would place their codeshare on the flight. It would complement the LX service from ZRH quite nicely.

YangFeng wrote:

xorrygva wrote:

As mentioned by Kottok, next non-European flight to be announced in the coming months is likely IKA-GVA with Qeshm Air (subject to gov. approvals).

GVA is hopeful to announce another intercontinental service ahead of the opening of the new long-haul terminal in Q4 2020, discussions with the airline is well advanced. I personally believe that it will be CX but let's see

Would make sense as GVA is the biggest unserved European market from HKG. But given the fact that CX will increase seat capacity in ZRH and are looking to expand into Central/Eastern Europe, I doubt it's going to be CX. Maybe ANA's 788 which is very premium-heavy but low in overall capacity? Seems like the perfect aircraft for GVA. LHG has a strategic joint venture with ANA between Japan and Europe, so they could share their corporate accounts and LX would place their codeshare on the flight. It would complement the LX service from ZRH quite nicely.

You’re right on CX, however, despite these developments, I still think that GVA has a strong chance. But I agree with ANA, this is also a possible candidate. Last option in my opinion is Shanghai with China Eastern. Chinese ambassador has announced last year that this line is being considered.

No chances for Singapore?

ANA is a candidate, especially if CH and JP agree on HND frequencies, given the LH/LX/NH JV, which would help the Swiss side of the market.

Cathay Pacific
Route: HKG-GVA, Demand: 41'000 PAX p.a. Likely Aircraft: 359
All Nippon Airways
Route: HND-GVA, Demand: 62,000 PAX p.a. Likely Aircraft: 788
China Eastern Airlines
Route: PVG-GVA, Demand: 37'000 PAX p.a. Likely Aircraft: 332
Singapore Airlines
Route: SIN-GVA, Demand: 40'000 PAX p.a. Likely Aircraft: 359

Other largest unserved markets in Asia: BKK (98'000 PAX p.a.), ICN (33'000 PAX p.a.), DEL (23'000 PAX p.a.)

xorrygva wrote:

You’re right on CX, however, despite these developments, I still think that GVA has a strong chance. But I agree with ANA, this is also a possible candidate. Last option in my opinion is Shanghai with China Eastern. Chinese ambassador has announced last year that this line is being considered.

Now that you mention it, I think MU might be the most likely candidate given their tendency to start new routes as 3x weekly 332 and their rapid pace of expanding.
https://www.anna.aero/2019/01/21/seat-c ... -10-years/

NH would make the most sense imho but MU might be the most likely. NH, CX or SQ are much more deliberate when expanding and likely to go at least 5x weekly or even daily. SQ and CX have existing service with huge capacity (388 and 351) in ZRH to maintain, hence why I think they are less likely to open a station in GVA.

with their JV LHGroup and ANA have demonstrated their ability to co-exist in their respective markets:
- 1x daily each MUC-HND by LH/NH
- 2x daily NH + 1x daily LH FRA-HND
- 1x daily NRT-DUS by NH
- 1x daily NRT-ZRH by LX
- (soon) 1x daily NRT-VIE by OS

>> over 60k pax p.a HND-GVA, so all signs are pointing on 788/789 NH flight HND-GVA

AZAL to extend their service to GVA as of February 5. Two weekly A319, Tuesday 0900-1000 and Friday 0825-0925.

https://twitter.com/followdpts/status/1 ... 2937810946

Wonder if they will still use the Gov jet for this flight.

Looking at those figure, I wonder if Swissair (back then) made the right decision to focus only on Zurich.

Could Swiss International Airlines made it work with two or tree A330 based in Geneva to fly to PEK, SIN, DXB, JFK, BKK, HND?

SR380 wrote:

Looking at those figure, I wonder if Swissair (back then) made the right decision to focus only on Zurich.

Could Swiss International Airlines made it work with two or tree A330 based in Geneva to fly to PEK, SIN, DXB, JFK, BKK, HND?

The 332s SR operated probably came to the party to late to save GVA (first delivery in 98) - the long haul fleet at that time were 743s, MD-11s and 313s, which would have been either too big or not had the range [TYO, SIN, BKK on 313] to operate from GVA.

SR380 wrote:

Looking at those figure, I wonder if Swissair (back then) made the right decision to focus only on Zurich.

Yes it was. Back then they were the main player at an airport (GVA) that probably served around 7-8 million passengers a year. The French speaking area of Switzerland wasn't as economically dynamic as it is today, and likes of easyJet were barely starting to exist. If I remember well, SR's CEO even tried to influence authorities to block the arrival of U2 a couple of years later.

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

SR380 wrote:

Looking at those figure, I wonder if Swissair (back then) made the right decision to focus only on Zurich.

Yes it was. Back then they were the main player at an airport (GVA) that probably served around 7-8 million passengers a year. The French speaking area of Switzerland wasn't as economically dynamic as it is today, and likes of easyJet were barely starting to exist. If I remember well, SR's CEO even tried to influence authorities to block the arrival of U2 a couple of years later.

Yes SR blocked easyJet at first forcing them to operate BCN as a charter flight providing tents to passengers if they wanted/needed them during their stay in Barcelona. I don’t recall them doing something similar for NCE which was launched pretty much at the same time.

Bhoy wrote:

SR380 wrote:

Looking at those figure, I wonder if Swissair (back then) made the right decision to focus only on Zurich.

Could Swiss International Airlines made it work with two or tree A330 based in Geneva to fly to PEK, SIN, DXB, JFK, BKK, HND?

The 332s SR operated probably came to the party to late to save GVA (first delivery in 98) - the long haul fleet at that time were 743s, MD-11s and 313s, which would have been either too big or not had the range [TYO, SIN, BKK on 313] to operate from GVA.

Thanks for the info. While being more costly. Ins't the MD-11 a same category aircraft as the A330?

SR380 wrote:

Bhoy wrote:

SR380 wrote:

Looking at those figure, I wonder if Swissair (back then) made the right decision to focus only on Zurich.

Could Swiss International Airlines made it work with two or tree A330 based in Geneva to fly to PEK, SIN, DXB, JFK, BKK, HND?

The 332s SR operated probably came to the party to late to save GVA (first delivery in 98) - the long haul fleet at that time were 743s, MD-11s and 313s, which would have been either too big or not had the range [TYO, SIN, BKK on 313] to operate from GVA.

Thanks for the info. While being more costly. Ins't the MD-11 a same category aircraft as the A330?

Bear in mind SR only had the smaller 332, not the 333 (which didn't arrive at LX until 2009) - that would be the same category.

SR had 2 MD-11 layouts - 18F/72C/153Y and 18F/42C/197Y - roughly comparable with LX' 333 Layout of 8F/45C/183Y.

The 332 Layout was 12F/42C/142Y, so a fair bit smaller than the MD-11.

Some new pics on the "Aile Est" works https://twitter.com/Phofmannsair/status/1088499827321815040

Patrick.

Thanks for these pictures. It is progressing well. What is now the expected date for opening? I heard Q4 2020 recently.

Correct. I heard mid December 2020 (15th IIRC) as the opening date.

Here's the new HB-JCA livery promoting the Fête des Vignerons 2019: https://twitter.com/FlySWISS/status/1091410422849257475

The new paint represents the cycle of the seasons, which sets the rhythm for nature and viniculture alike. On the left side of the fuselage, colours evoke autumn and winter, whereas the coulours on the right side are wramer and represent spring and summer.

Interesting interview with the LX CEO, especially concerning A340 replacement

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/interview ... boeing-787

Fingers crossed for A350s

will be interesting to see how long Germania CH is going to survive in view of the collapse of Germania DE.
I believe, it's just a matter of time...

stylo777 wrote:

will be interesting to see how long Germania CH is going to survive in view of the collapse of Germania DE.
I believe, it's just a matter of time...

Is it still part owned by the Swiss travel agency?

no, Hotelplan is out and ever since Germania Flug is operating as an independent entity (of course, closely cooperating with Germania Germany)

SR380 wrote:

Looking at those figure, I wonder if Swissair (back then) made the right decision to focus only on Zurich.

Could Swiss International Airlines made it work with two or tree A330 based in Geneva to fly to PEK, SIN, DXB, JFK, BKK, HND?

One weekly service each or how do you propose this would work out on 2-3 aircraft? You'd need a minimum of 7 aircraft to make that work.

aviationaware wrote:

SR380 wrote:

Looking at those figure, I wonder if Swissair (back then) made the right decision to focus only on Zurich.

Could Swiss International Airlines made it work with two or tree A330 based in Geneva to fly to PEK, SIN, DXB, JFK, BKK, HND?

One weekly service each or how do you propose this would work out on 2-3 aircraft? You'd need a minimum of 7 aircraft to make that work.

I am no expert but I don't think that PEK, SIN, BKK or HND could justified more than 2 or 3 weekly flights from LSGG. Do you need 7 airplanes for that?

Any operation from GVA to SIN or NRT would need at least 4 weekly flights in order to attract the business demand. PEK is already covered by CA and BKK would not be profitable because of low yields. In my opinion, LX should only consider 4-5 weekly flights to either BOS or MIA from GVA. Anything else would be too costly (needs more planes) and therefore risky.
For Asian flights, GVA is discussing with CX, SQ and NH and probably more. The airport has high hopes to announce another new long-haul next year. I personally bet on CX...but let’s see

xorrygva wrote:

Anything else would be too costly (needs more planes) and therefore risky.

Exactly.

xorrygva wrote:

For Asian flights, GVA is discussing with CX, SQ and NH and probably more. The airport has high hopes to announce another new long-haul next year. I personally bet on CX...but let’s see

Ever since Swissair retracted from GVA, the only long-haul flight kept by a Swiss airline is JFK. Anything else has been done by another airline, even though Star member, still not a Swiss aircraft. EK, QR, EY, KQ, ET, AC, CO/UA, CA.

Swiss is once again taking over GVA-MUC (5x daily) from the summer schedule and will also operate 4x daily on GVA-FRA (LH will also have 4x daily service on the route). Most of these operated by CS1 aircraft.

Whether LX will cut any existing destinations or frequencies remains to be seen.

runway23 wrote:

Swiss is once again taking over GVA-MUC (5x daily) from the summer schedule and will also operate 4x daily on GVA-FRA (LH will also have 4x daily service on the route). Most of these operated by CS1 aircraft.

Whether LX will cut any existing destinations or frequencies remains to be seen.

great, some variety on these routes and I believe it's actually the contrary of cuting frequencies.
LX is still receiving CS1/3 thus the possibility to add/increase flights.

LX is adding aircraft. 10 aircraft (3 CS1 and 7 CS3) instead of 8.

runway23 wrote:

Swiss is once again taking over GVA-MUC (5x daily) from the summer schedule and will also operate 4x daily on GVA-FRA (LH will also have 4x daily service on the route). Most of these operated by CS1 aircraft.

Whether LX will cut any existing destinations or frequencies remains to be seen.

No more LH livery at all in Geneva, then?

stylo777 wrote:

runway23 wrote:

Swiss is once again taking over GVA-MUC (5x daily) from the summer schedule and will also operate 4x daily on GVA-FRA (LH will also have 4x daily service on the route). Most of these operated by CS1 aircraft.

Whether LX will cut any existing destinations or frequencies remains to be seen.

great, some variety on these routes and I believe it's actually the contrary of cuting frequencies.
LX is still receiving CS1/3 thus the possibility to add/increase flights.

Last time when LX took over GVA-MUC it was to the detriment of existing routes, many of which were cut or other routes had frequency cuts.

Just because some flights are still in the schedule as of today doesn't mean they will all operate this summer

HB-IPY ferried ZRH-DGX, presumably for part-out and scrap. 22.3 years in service.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/HBI ... /LSZH/EGDX

sergegva wrote:

runway23 wrote:

Swiss is once again taking over GVA-MUC (5x daily) from the summer schedule and will also operate 4x daily on GVA-FRA (LH will also have 4x daily service on the route). Most of these operated by CS1 aircraft.

Whether LX will cut any existing destinations or frequencies remains to be seen.

No more LH livery at all in Geneva, then?

Still four daily LH flights from FRA. There is a press release about this on GVA web page but I cannot access it.

runway23 wrote:

stylo777 wrote:

runway23 wrote:

Swiss is once again taking over GVA-MUC (5x daily) from the summer schedule and will also operate 4x daily on GVA-FRA (LH will also have 4x daily service on the route). Most of these operated by CS1 aircraft.

Whether LX will cut any existing destinations or frequencies remains to be seen.

great, some variety on these routes and I believe it's actually the contrary of cuting frequencies.
LX is still receiving CS1/3 thus the possibility to add/increase flights.

Last time when LX took over GVA-MUC it was to the detriment of existing routes, many of which were cut or other routes had frequency cuts.

Just because some flights are still in the schedule as of today doesn't mean they will all operate this summer

I don't know when LX took over the last time the MUC route and I disagree with you at least on the summer schedule. They increased their presence in GVA in a quite healthy and cautious way. Whatever is planned has surely undergone a proper evaluation potential and revenue-wise. If anything will be cut in summer, I stand corrected, but I certainly believe that they base additional CS1/3 to cover these flights as well.

btw. including those two new and the ZRH flights, the overall LX destinations from GVA will raise to somewhere around 40.

stylo777 wrote:

I don't know when LX took over the last time the MUC route and I disagree with you at least on the summer schedule. They increased their presence in GVA in a quite healthy and cautious way. Whatever is planned has surely undergone a proper evaluation potential and revenue-wise. If anything will be cut in summer, I stand corrected, but I certainly believe that they base additional CS1/3 to cover these flights as well.

btw. including those two new and the ZRH flights, the overall LX destinations from GVA will raise to somewhere around 40.

Last time LX took over GVA-MUC was in April 2016 and lasted until March 2017. It had the effect of leading to the following routes being cancelled: CPH (5x/w), BEG (2x/w), SJJ (1x/w). Routes with reduced frequencies: BCN (9x/w to 4x/w), NCE (9x/w to 5x/w), DME (8x/w to 7x/w), LCY (18x/w to 17x/w). LX also at pretty much the same time got rid of the Q400 operating to LUG and also cut ALG and SKP at the end of the summer schedule in 2016.

The problem back then was that the introduction of MUC left LX at GVA with 6 aircraft of which 3 were dedicated to MUC/LHR/LCY and therefore 3 left to operate about 20 or so destinations - it led to basically an incoherent schedule on the other remaining destinations.

What I am told by internal sources is that LX had a lot more planned this summer at GVA. The initial plan was to receive 2 not 3 aircraft (which is what is happening here with MUC/FRA) - the net result being that a number of planned (but not announced) new destinations won't launch as planned this year. Apparently the decision to switch MUC/FRA to LX came from LH and came very late. The initial impact being that some destinations should have had more daily flights (MAD, BCN and possibly NCE should have been 2x daily this summer).

That said there are still some gaps in LX's summer schedule from GVA with changes still to come (including some schedules that seem wrongly loaded) and things seem to change very quickly (which is why we've seen 3 route announcements in the space of a month for IBZ, JMK, BDS, ALC, FAO then LCA and now FRA, MUC). Route count right now from GVA is 45 routes and should get LX to around a 20% market share.

Seems like LH is a bit short on planes, as they will also wetlease some BT A223s. However, taking over some LH flights allows the base to grow and be maintained more efficiently.

stylo777 wrote:

the last we heard was that 319's stay a bit longer than expected and AMM is a regular MX location for LX aircraft.
I would say regular checks rather than withdrawal from service.

It looks like SWISS does not do any heavier maintenance with SRTechnics at ZRH anymore?

The Airbus fleet seems to receive their heavier maintenance in AMM, a enhancment thants to LH, I hope the group does not save on quality and safety with that move.
The B77W's seem to receive their heavier maintenance in HKG which LX seems to be able to combine with their revenue service, hence one frame operates LX 138 and goes to Maintanance and the frame where Maintenance was completed will then perform the return flight LX 139 on that day.

Hey guys,

There is an article on ch.aviation that LX is looking at replacing the remaining A340 from 2025 onwards. I can't access the site no more. Does anyone knows what they might pick up? 777s?

SR380 wrote:

Hey guys,

There is an article on ch.aviation that LX is looking at replacing the remaining A340 from 2025 onwards. I can't access the site no more. Does anyone knows what they might pick up? 777s?

I've seen in here another thread on that topic with an interview of Swiss CEO in a German newspaper/magazine. Don't know if it's stll there.

SR380 wrote:

Hey guys,

There is an article on ch.aviation that LX is looking at replacing the remaining A340 from 2025 onwards. I can't access the site no more. Does anyone knows what they might pick up? 777s?

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/interview ... boeing-787

- A350 or B787 for A343 in 2025
- A330 replacement from 2030 onwards
- B777X ruled out

It has been reported that there is an RFP between the A350 and B787 from LHG. OS is part of it, LX’s A343 replacement are part of it and I reckon LH’s 343s and maybe 346s.

DUSZRH wrote:

It has been reported that there is an RFP between the A350 and B787 from LHG. OS is part of it, LX’s A343 replacement are part of it and I reckon LH’s 343s and maybe 346s.

I would assume that the Aircraft type that will be chosen to replace the A343 in 2025 will be the same one used to replace the A333'a as of 2030, so let's hope for the A350 Let's see about OS, if they will really be allowed to receive new jets might the A330-900 not also be a "cheaper" option?

Also, since the A333's of SWISS will remain in the fleet until 2030 appox, I hope they will completely update the cabin by 2022 that we will not have another A343 desaster with a inferior product flying around for years

LXA340 wrote:

not have another A343 desaster with a inferior product flying around for years

Some great news, HB-JMH will be the first reconfigured A340-300 - ready to re-enter the fleet at the and of February 2019.

But there is a little "secret", like Eurowings, the new swiss A340 will feature in Economy 44 "MORE LEGROOM" seats with extra comfort - for additional costs. BUT, until ALL swiss A340 have been re-configured, these seats are given out to the normal standard seat reservation rate. This should simplify the process in case of aircraft change. So look out for HB-JMH!

Rumour has it that only 4 out of 5 A340 will get refurbished this spring. The last one after peak-season. Direct result of the delays in the certifying process.

Quite amazed about the amount of flights between all (Greater) London airports and GVA on a Saturday. I counted 58 arrivals for today on the airport webpage. These include flights from LHR, LGW, LCY, STN, LTN and SEN. Heavy ski traffic or is it also something else?

stylo777 wrote:

Quite amazed about the amount of flights between all (Greater) London airports and GVA on a Saturday. I counted 58 arrivals for today on the airport webpage. These include flights from LHR, LGW, LCY, STN, LTN and SEN. Heavy ski traffic or is it also something else?

Mostly Ski Traffic, on week long packages - hence only the normal BA/LX/U2 flights the rest of the week.

The Swiss Air Force took delivery of first Pilatus PC24!

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... iden-pc-24

The picture looks amazing! I am very proud that the Swiss government will now travel aboard a swiss manufactured aircraft!

HB-JJN / MSN4187 ex LaudaMotion (OE-LOG) & exex Air Berlin (HB-IOP), the newest fleetmember of Edelweiss has been painted in NWI and is currently in DRS for cabin installation. Expect this bird to join the active fleet within a couple of weeks.

...whereas HB-JMH is still sitting in DRS and getting refurbished. Didn't they say it would be back to the fleet around mid-February despite the longer certification process of the first aircraft?