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Fargo wrote:So how long will it take before AA drops RDU-PIT?
Fargo wrote:So how long will it take before AA drops RDU-PIT?
sargester wrote:Fargo wrote:So how long will it take before AA drops RDU-PIT?
they do well on that route, don't see a need for them to drop it
rajincajun01 wrote:sargester wrote:Fargo wrote:So how long will it take before AA drops RDU-PIT?
they do well on that route, don't see a need for them to drop it
So well that they used to serve it 3x daily around a year or so ago and now just 1x daily?
ERJ170 wrote:So.. what’s left for RDU to go after? Domestic - PDX is all I can think of.. maybe a return to USVI (STT or STX).. maybe regional routes.. International is a different story but RDU does seem well served
ERJ170 wrote:So.. what’s left for RDU to go after? Domestic - PDX is all I can think of.. maybe a return to USVI (STT or STX).. maybe regional routes.. International is a different story but RDU does seem well served
Midwestindy wrote:rajincajun01 wrote:sargester wrote:
they do well on that route, don't see a need for them to drop it
So well that they used to serve it 3x daily around a year or so ago and now just 1x daily?
Lol, the LF from Jan-Sep this year on PIT-RDU was 67.6%
but, "they do well on that route"
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:How many of the non-hub RDU DL flights are flown by mainline equipment? Just wondering if further DL growth to places like PDX, SJC, and SAN is limited until DL commits to more mainline flying out of RDU.
rajincajun01 wrote:A Via Air hub!![]()
Midwestindy wrote:rajincajun01 wrote:sargester wrote:
they do well on that route, don't see a need for them to drop it
So well that they used to serve it 3x daily around a year or so ago and now just 1x daily?
Lol, the LF from Jan-Sep this year on PIT-RDU was 67.6%
but, "they do well on that route"
FA9295 wrote:DL surely won't last long on the MSY route. Leisure travelers typically choose LCCs when the opportunity is there, and if DL can't compete with the NK's fares, then there's not much of a chance for them.
PIT will probably be just fine, though.
GSP psgr wrote:ERJ170 wrote:So.. what’s left for RDU to go after? Domestic - PDX is all I can think of.. maybe a return to USVI (STT or STX).. maybe regional routes.. International is a different story but RDU does seem well served
As far as the Delta focus city:
Strong possibilities: Milwaukee and Memphis (both very strong former NW markets where Delta remains the big player)
Small But Interesting: Madison (strong NW market with possible research traffic), White Plains (could there be market stimulation from pax that currently use NYC airports?), Newburgh (used to be a huge route back in the day; probably gets ATL service before RDU)
The Market's Might Be There, But Yields???: San Antonio, Providence, Buffalo, Las Vegas
Want To Take On The 800LB Gorilla: St. Louis/Kansas City (WN), San Francisco (UA),
flyPIT wrote:I'd say so, considering for example a close in r/t is $90 more than DL's IND-RDU for a flight 33% shorter and only averaged 2-3 passengers less per flight over the same period (68% vs 73%).
Furthermore, over the same period two years prior when PIT-RDU was 3x daily their LF was actually higher at 72%. Contrast that to the 2x daily DL service from IND which had a 60% LF during that period. A couple years ago DL committed to their IND-RDU route while AA did not commit to their PIT-RDU despite the superior numbers because RDU simply did not hold the value to AA that it does to DL. So this serves as a perfect example of how markets are either suppressed or stimulated at the whim of an airline as they optimize their assets and network, which I suppose will continue to be the case here with AA dropping PIT-RDU. DL will be fine on this route.
Midwestindy wrote:1. You randomly bringing up IND is odd, considering I said nothing about IND in my original post
Midwestindy wrote:2. Since you want to bring up IND, it has the second highest RJ nonstop avg fare for DL at RDU behind AUS
Midwestindy wrote:3. IND-RDU has been double the PDEW of PIT-RDU consistently since the early-mid 2000s, even with IND-RDU having significantly higher avg fares until a couple years ago. The higher LFs that you are referencing on PIT-RDU are attributable to connections, as there is no way AA PIT-RDU could support 3x daily without connections on either end.
without connections (which AA doesn't want to do).
Midwestindy wrote:4. I have no idea what you are arguing about, the route will be dropped by AA in a few months (if that) and DL will do fine on the route. AA has stated endlessly that they plan on dropping all their non-hub flying, so this shouldn't be surprising.
flyPIT wrote:Midwestindy wrote:3. IND-RDU has been double the PDEW of PIT-RDU consistently since the early-mid 2000s, even with IND-RDU having significantly higher avg fares until a couple years ago. The higher LFs that you are referencing on PIT-RDU are attributable to connections, as there is no way AA PIT-RDU could support 3x daily without connections on either end.
Connections to where? AA barely had anything to connect to at PIT or RDU. Unlike DL at RDU.....
flyPIT wrote:Midwestindy wrote:without connections (which AA doesn't want to do).
I'm standing by for the announcement AA will be drawing down their CLT, DFW, ORD, and PHL hubs because they don't want to do connections.
ctrabs0114 wrote:GSP psgr wrote:ERJ170 wrote:So.. what’s left for RDU to go after? Domestic - PDX is all I can think of.. maybe a return to USVI (STT or STX).. maybe regional routes.. International is a different story but RDU does seem well served
As far as the Delta focus city:
Strong possibilities: Milwaukee and Memphis (both very strong former NW markets where Delta remains the big player)
Small But Interesting: Madison (strong NW market with possible research traffic), White Plains (could there be market stimulation from pax that currently use NYC airports?), Newburgh (used to be a huge route back in the day; probably gets ATL service before RDU)
The Market's Might Be There, But Yields???: San Antonio, Providence, Buffalo, Las Vegas
Want To Take On The 800LB Gorilla: St. Louis/Kansas City (WN), San Francisco (UA),
WN actually has double (or close to double) DL's market share at MKE, but DL does have the market share edge at MEM.
HPN might not make a good focus city in the sense most of us think given it's proximity to JFK and LGA, but, it's in the northern reaches of the LGA/JFK catchment area, so you might be able to bill HPN as a reasonable alternative to folks in Westchester/Rockland, far North Jersey (Bergen County) or the Greenwich/Stamford/Bridgeport areas of Connecticut.
Rafale9312 wrote:AVLAirlineFreq wrote:How many of the non-hub RDU DL flights are flown by mainline equipment? Just wondering if further DL growth to places like PDX, SJC, and SAN is limited until DL commits to more mainline flying out of RDU.
Fort Lauderdale, Orlando, Cancun (seasonal), Tampa (seasonal)
RDUDDJI wrote:Rafale9312 wrote:AVLAirlineFreq wrote:How many of the non-hub RDU DL flights are flown by mainline equipment? Just wondering if further DL growth to places like PDX, SJC, and SAN is limited until DL commits to more mainline flying out of RDU.
Fort Lauderdale, Orlando, Cancun (seasonal), Tampa (seasonal)
Also BOS and occasionally they've also done LGA/JFK (but not currently). I suppose LGA/JFK are hubs, but BOS isn't (or maybe it is, I can't keep up).
hockyluv21 wrote:My personal guess on the three Via routes that they're thinking about right now: SDF, MEM, TLH (untapped state capital to state capital route). I actually think CHS would be a good add, as well, since the drive time from RDU is about the length of going to Northern VA or Washington, DC.
rajincajun01 wrote:Those would be good adds, though I think TLH is a stretch. If they end up adding these cities, CHS and MYR are good for golf/leisure traffic and were very popular in the AA hub days.
The higher LFs that you are referencing on PIT-RDU are attributable to connections, as there is no way AA PIT-RDU could support 3x daily without connections on either end.
GSOflyerDL wrote:The higher LFs that you are referencing on PIT-RDU are attributable to connections, as there is no way AA PIT-RDU could support 3x daily without connections on either end.
This brings up an interesting question: Does DL or any other airline (WN?) send connecting traffic through RDU? If so that are the most common origin/destination cities?
rajincajun01 wrote:Connecting traffic makes up less than 5% of total traffic at RDU. The number has been growing as DL expands.
ncflyer wrote:does anyone know if F9 sells connections over RDU?
flyPIT wrote:Midwestindy wrote:1. You randomly bringing up IND is odd, considering I said nothing about IND in my original post
Are you the only one allowed to bring up IND? Its perfectly ok to bring up another example to use for comparison reasons.Midwestindy wrote:2. Since you want to bring up IND, it has the second highest RJ nonstop avg fare for DL at RDU behind AUS
Yet fares are lower than AA's PIT-RDU more recently, which you admit in your #3 point. But this alone will not stop AA from yanking PIT-RDU while DL remains. That was my point.Midwestindy wrote:3. IND-RDU has been double the PDEW of PIT-RDU consistently since the early-mid 2000s, even with IND-RDU having significantly higher avg fares until a couple years ago. The higher LFs that you are referencing on PIT-RDU are attributable to connections, as there is no way AA PIT-RDU could support 3x daily without connections on either end.
Connections to where? AA barely had anything to connect to at PIT or RDU. Unlike DL at RDU....without connections (which AA doesn't want to do).
I'm standing by for the announcement AA will be drawing down their CLT, DFW, ORD, and PHL hubs because they don't want to do connections.Midwestindy wrote:4. I have no idea what you are arguing about, the route will be dropped by AA in a few months (if that) and DL will do fine on the route. AA has stated endlessly that they plan on dropping all their non-hub flying, so this shouldn't be surprising.
Who's arguing? I stated AA can be expected to drop PIT-RDU. Merely using this as an example of how one airline finds some worth in a market while another does not so it is not necessarily a reflection on the market itself.
tphuang wrote:AA's average fare on PIT-RDU is high because it's running one daily 44 to 50 seater. Big difference vs 2 daily 70 to 76 seater.
GSOflyerDL wrote:rajincajun01 wrote:Connecting traffic makes up less than 5% of total traffic at RDU. The number has been growing as DL expands.
Do you know which origin and destination cities make up this traffic? 5% of total traffic is still hundreds of thousands.
Just guessing, but on DL mainline metal I could imagine some Florida traffic being routed through RDU to CDG. Perhaps LAX to a non-hub east coast city like PHL as well (though PHL isn’t mainline from RDU I don’t think).
On the other hand, why route through RDU when ATL or another hub city is better suited for connecting traffic.
ERJ170 wrote:So there was a special meeting today at RDU discussion long haul services. Anyone know what was discussed/outcome? Would be interested to hear. With the failure to capture all the federal money that was promised for the international runway, wonder what they will come up with to make up the difference.
ERJ170 wrote:How are only SOME of the F9 shifting? I would think ALL! That’s weird.. but makes sense... WN, F9, G4, NK, and Via Air should all be there.. and they need to pus some kinda RDU based Club there...
Rafale9312 wrote:ERJ170 wrote:How are only SOME of the F9 shifting? I would think ALL! That’s weird.. but makes sense... WN, F9, G4, NK, and Via Air should all be there.. and they need to pus some kinda RDU based Club there...
Terminal 1 doesn't have any CBP facilities, and the planes that F9 are using for their international ops usually get rotated into domestic flights with a pretty quick turnaround.
Rafale9312 wrote:ERJ170 wrote:So there was a special meeting today at RDU discussion long haul services. Anyone know what was discussed/outcome? Would be interested to hear. With the failure to capture all the federal money that was promised for the international runway, wonder what they will come up with to make up the difference.
https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2019/01/29/rdu-mulls-plan-to-support-more-international.html
In short, the airport is shifting some Frontier operations to Terminal 1 and are trying to convince Allegiant and Spirit to do the same. Besides that, they're inferring that CBP and the ticket counter space needs to be expanded to attract more international service along with possibly expanding one or both concourses in Terminal 2 sooner than what Vision 2040 had called for.
Fargo wrote:Rafale9312 wrote:ERJ170 wrote:So there was a special meeting today at RDU discussion long haul services. Anyone know what was discussed/outcome? Would be interested to hear. With the failure to capture all the federal money that was promised for the international runway, wonder what they will come up with to make up the difference.
https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2019/01/29/rdu-mulls-plan-to-support-more-international.html
In short, the airport is shifting some Frontier operations to Terminal 1 and are trying to convince Allegiant and Spirit to do the same. Besides that, they're inferring that CBP and the ticket counter space needs to be expanded to attract more international service along with possibly expanding one or both concourses in Terminal 2 sooner than what Vision 2040 had called for.
Question, how many FIS gates does RDU have and how many pax an hour can the customs hall process?
flyPIT wrote:Midwestindy wrote:1. You randomly bringing up IND is odd, considering I said nothing about IND in my original post
Are you the only one allowed to bring up IND? Its perfectly ok to bring up another example to use for comparison reasons.Midwestindy wrote:2. Since you want to bring up IND, it has the second highest RJ nonstop avg fare for DL at RDU behind AUS
Yet fares are lower than AA's PIT-RDU more recently, which you admit in your #3 point. But this alone will not stop AA from yanking PIT-RDU while DL remains. That was my point.Midwestindy wrote:3. IND-RDU has been double the PDEW of PIT-RDU consistently since the early-mid 2000s, even with IND-RDU having significantly higher avg fares until a couple years ago. The higher LFs that you are referencing on PIT-RDU are attributable to connections, as there is no way AA PIT-RDU could support 3x daily without connections on either end.
Connections to where? AA barely had anything to connect to at PIT or RDU. Unlike DL at RDU....without connections (which AA doesn't want to do).
I'm standing by for the announcement AA will be drawing down their CLT, DFW, ORD, and PHL hubs because they don't want to do connections.Midwestindy wrote:4. I have no idea what you are arguing about, the route will be dropped by AA in a few months (if that) and DL will do fine on the route. AA has stated endlessly that they plan on dropping all their non-hub flying, so this shouldn't be surprising.
Who's arguing? I stated AA can be expected to drop PIT-RDU. Merely using this as an example of how one airline finds some worth in a market while another does not so it is not necessarily a reflection on the market itself.