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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:54 pm

So will it be standard practice to have the wing tip up when parked even if there is no gate restriction?

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:10 pm

bikerthai wrote:
So will it be standard practice to have the wing tip up when parked even if there is no gate restriction?

bt

I would imagine so, if anything just so pilots are consistent and don’t forget to raise the wingtips when they actually have to, or don’t forget to lower them when leaving.
 
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qf789
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:22 pm

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OldAeroGuy
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:20 pm

bikerthai wrote:
So will it be standard practice to have the wing tip up when parked even if there is no gate restriction?

bt


Yes.

Tips are extended only in flight or on the active runway.

The standard configuration when on the ground and off the active runway is tips folded.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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qf789
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:17 pm

The second 777-9 in the 40-23 building at PAE. A Metronor calibration to measure control surface positions is scheduled for tomorrow

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https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 54496?s=20
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lightsaber
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:20 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Mid April was supposed to be the first flight. Doubt the MAX issue should affect this progress...yet.

The 777 defines a fbw configuration that everyone, in the USA, who takes a fbw course studies. We shouldn't worry about the MAX impacting the 777. The 777 inherently has a robust configuration that doesn't need a grafted on subsystem.

Lightsaber
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fcogafa
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:48 pm

Will they need to do the wing bendy test to 150% or whatever for this version or has it been done?
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:04 pm

fcogafa wrote:
Will they need to do the wing bendy test to 150% or whatever for this version or has it been done?


They have not performed the Ultimate (150%) Load Test as of yet. It is not required before first flight (the 787's test was the following year after first flight).
 
TranscendZac
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:51 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
qf789 wrote:

Wow even folded up those are huge wings. This thing will look massive at takeoff with that wing flex. Really look forward to first flight pics and video.
Zac
 
pugman211
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:05 pm

fcogafa wrote:
Will they need to do the wing bendy test to 150% or whatever for this version or has it been done?



I would imagine yes because it is a completely different wing.
 
ek354
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:33 pm

Any (yet inofficial) information on the date of the maiden flight?
 
Sooner787
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:24 pm

bikerthai wrote:
So will it be standard practice to have the wing tip up when parked even if there is no gate restriction?

bt


I'm sure it will . With the wingtips folded, the wingspan is the same an the 77W,
 
Sooner787
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:47 pm

ek354 wrote:
Any (yet inofficial) information on the date of the maiden flight?


IIRC someone mentioned 26Apr as target date for first flight, but we'll see
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:58 pm

Would any of the test frames be ready for Dubai Airshow mid November ??
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:54 am

Slat rigging and functional testing done on 777-9 today

Image

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 77920?s=20
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mxaxai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:04 am

UAEflyer wrote:
Would any of the test frames be ready for Dubai Airshow mid November ??

Airbus managed to do a flyby at Le Bourget within one week of the A350's first flight. I'm sure that if Boeing wants to have the 777-9 in Dubai, it can be there. (Unless something unforeseen turns up)
Whether it'll be at Le Bourget 2019 is more doubtful.
 
WIederling
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:14 am

mxaxai wrote:
UAEflyer wrote:
Would any of the test frames be ready for Dubai Airshow mid November ??

Airbus managed to do a flyby at Le Bourget within one week of the A350's first flight. I'm sure that if Boeing wants to have the 777-9 in Dubai, it can be there. (Unless something unforeseen turns up)
Whether it'll be at Le Bourget 2019 is more doubtful.


A350 did not leave the cert domain. ( EASA ).
Afair it was a "passing" fly by. Keep your distance.
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Max Q
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:08 am

Nice looking aircraft


The extra door aft of the wing is obvious and looks a bit odd


It is unusual to see a new version of an aircraft with significantly less thrust at the same MGTOW


The ‘wing is the thing’ Boeing says, hope they’re right !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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OldAeroGuy
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:28 pm

Max Q wrote:
Nice looking aircraft

It is unusual to see a new version of an aircraft with significantly less thrust at the same MGTOW



The 777-300ER is like a cage fighter, compact with a lot of power.

The 777-9 is like a ballerina, elegant and graceful with a minimum of obvious effort.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:33 pm

Even if the 777-9 was ready for a flight to France or Dubai, would Boeing want to pull it out of the flight test and certification program? I seem to recall that there were times when flyable 787 and 737MAX flight test articles were technically available for air-show visits, but Boeing chose to keep them "at home" working on their primary focus.
 
Eyad89
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:42 pm

Max Q wrote:

It is unusual to see a new version of an aircraft with significantly less thrust at the same MGTOW




True. While the 77X would definitely have a higher L/D ratio than the 77W, it will have a lower Thrust to weight ratio by about 10%.

In that case, I wonder how its climb performance will turn out to be compared to 77W. Would the higher L/D compensate for the lower T/W?
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:18 pm

OldAeroGuy wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Nice looking aircraft

It is unusual to see a new version of an aircraft with significantly less thrust at the same MGTOW



The 777-300ER is like a cage fighter, compact with a lot of power.

The 777-9 is like a ballerina, elegant and graceful with a minimum of obvious effort.


The 200LR is the real cage fighter!!
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
UAEflyer
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:39 pm

Stitch wrote:
Even if the 777-9 was ready for a flight to France or Dubai, would Boeing want to pull it out of the flight test and certification program? I seem to recall that there were times when flyable 787 and 737MAX flight test articles were technically available for air-show visits, but Boeing chose to keep them "at home" working on their primary focus.

With more than 230 orders from the region (EK 150, QR 60, EY 25) why would Boeing not bring it to the show and make their biggest customers happy!
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:54 pm

UAEflyer wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Even if the 777-9 was ready for a flight to France or Dubai, would Boeing want to pull it out of the flight test and certification program? I seem to recall that there were times when flyable 787 and 737MAX flight test articles were technically available for air-show visits, but Boeing chose to keep them "at home" working on their primary focus.

With more than 230 orders from the region (EK 150, QR 60, EY 25) why would Boeing not bring it to the show and make their biggest customers happy!



By the time Dubai comes along, they will most likely have more than one frames in the flight test program. They will be able to spare one of them for Dubai. Most likely they would be able to incorporate the trip as part of the flight test program and check both boxes with one shot. My money is that they will be able to spare a flying frame for Paris as well.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:01 pm

Stitch wrote:
Even if the 777-9 was ready for a flight to France or Dubai, would Boeing want to pull it out of the flight test and certification program? I seem to recall that there were times when flyable 787 and 737MAX flight test articles were technically available for air-show visits, but Boeing chose to keep them "at home" working on their primary focus.


I don’t recall this, I can’t think of a major air show that Boeing didn’t bring a 787 or 737 MAX from the time of their first flight.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:14 pm

Stitch wrote:
Even if the 777-9 was ready for a flight to France or Dubai, would Boeing want to pull it out of the flight test and certification program? I seem to recall that there were times when flyable 787 and 737MAX flight test articles were technically available for air-show visits, but Boeing chose to keep them "at home" working on their primary focus.

ikolkyo wrote:
I don’t recall this, I can’t think of a major air show that Boeing didn’t bring a 787 or 737 MAX from the time of their first flight.


You may very will be right. I thought they kept the 787-10 at home in 2017, but they did send her to Paris (first flight was at the end of March of that year).
 
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SEPilot
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:52 pm

Eyad89 wrote:
Max Q wrote:

It is unusual to see a new version of an aircraft with significantly less thrust at the same MGTOW




True. While the 77X would definitely have a higher L/D ratio than the 77W, it will have a lower Thrust to weight ratio by about 10%.

In that case, I wonder how its climb performance will turn out to be compared to 77W. Would the higher L/D compensate for the lower T/W?

Climb performance is determined by how much excess thrust is available over what is required to maintain level flight and by the weight. Being as the weight is the same it is how much extra thrust is available that will determine climb performance. But wing efficiency will also play a small role, and I believe the thrust margin is probably about the same. So my expectation is that the 779 will climb at least as well as the 77W and maybe slightly better.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
OldAeroGuy
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:28 pm

Stitch wrote:
Even if the 777-9 was ready for a flight to France or Dubai, would Boeing want to pull it out of the flight test and certification program? I seem to recall that there were times when flyable 787 and 737MAX flight test articles were technically available for air-show visits, but Boeing chose to keep them "at home" working on their primary focus.


The 777-300ER first flew on February 24, 2003. Less than 4 months later, it made a Paris appearance.

If the 777-9 flies in late April/early May, I think you'll see one over 6 months later in Dubai.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
OldAeroGuy
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:36 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Nice looking aircraft

It is unusual to see a new version of an aircraft with significantly less thrust at the same MGTOW



The 777-300ER is like a cage fighter, compact with a lot of power.

The 777-9 is like a ballerina, elegant and graceful with a minimum of obvious effort.


The 200LR is the real cage fighter!!


Maybe the 777-200LR/F is like a sumo wrestler.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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keesje
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:22 pm

OldAeroGuy wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:


The 777-300ER is like a cage fighter, compact with a lot of power.

The 777-9 is like a ballerina, elegant and graceful with a minimum of obvious effort.


The 200LR is the real cage fighter!!


Maybe the 777-200LR/F is like a sumo wrestler.


The 777-9 is at serious ballerina, she gained 30k lb empty weight over the 77W.

77W OEW: 370,000 lb / 167,829 kg
777X OEW 400,000 lb / 181,400 kg

Apparently the lower wing loading of the 777X provides better control power at low speeds, during V1+ engine continue take-off.

That said, I can see the GE9X gaining thrust a bit again, even before type certification, to improve safety margins.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:46 pm

keesje wrote:
The 777-9 is at serious ballerina, she gained 30k lb empty weight over the 77W.


If you look at the weight to length ratios, the 777-9 is not that much heavier than the 777-300

I bet if you also figure in the increasing in width and thrust, all the ratios & factors will come out pretty much the same.

Your ballerina is heavier, but the she's slightly taller with longer, more elegant arms as well . . .

bt
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OldAeroGuy
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:47 pm

keesje wrote:
The 777-9 is at serious ballerina, she gained 30k lb empty weight over the 77W.

77W OEW: 370,000 lb / 167,829 kg
777X OEW 400,000 lb / 181,400 kg


But at the start of a jump ie takeoff, she weights just the same. 775,000 lb / 351,538 kg

keesje wrote:
Apparently the lower wing loading of the 777X provides better control power at low speeds, during V1+ engine continue take-off.


The lower wing loading provides lower takeoff speeds, meaning less acceleration, ie lower thrust, is needed for the same takeoff field length.

The higher wing span reduces induced drag where it is highest, ie initial climb, so less thrust is needed for the same or better climb gradient.

Those elegant longer arms are very useful.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:48 pm

keesje wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:

The 200LR is the real cage fighter!!


Maybe the 777-200LR/F is like a sumo wrestler.


The 777-9 is at serious ballerina, she gained 30k lb empty weight over the 77W.

77W OEW: 370,000 lb / 167,829 kg
777X OEW 400,000 lb / 181,400 kg

Apparently the lower wing loading of the 777X provides better control power at low speeds, during V1+ engine continue take-off.

That said, I can see the GE9X gaining thrust a bit again, even before type certification, to improve safety margins.


Are those OEW weights official yet or is that still just speculation?
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:21 pm

morrisond wrote:
keesje wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:

Maybe the 777-200LR/F is like a sumo wrestler.


The 777-9 is at serious ballerina, she gained 30k lb empty weight over the 77W.

77W OEW: 370,000 lb / 167,829 kg
777X OEW 400,000 lb / 181,400 kg

Apparently the lower wing loading of the 777X provides better control power at low speeds, during V1+ engine continue take-off.

That said, I can see the GE9X gaining thrust a bit again, even before type certification, to improve safety margins.


Are those OEW weights official yet or is that still just speculation?




For the -8X and -9X ,it also aims to reduce operating empty weight (OEW) to levels to within 15,000–30,000 lb. of the current aircraft, depending on the model. The 777-300ER OEW is around 373,500 lb., whereas the nominal OEW of the -9X is targeted at just over 400,000 lb.


https://m.aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/airbus-boeing-deciding-larger-a350-777x-versions
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morrisond
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:07 pm

keesje wrote:
morrisond wrote:
keesje wrote:

The 777-9 is at serious ballerina, she gained 30k lb empty weight over the 77W.

77W OEW: 370,000 lb / 167,829 kg
777X OEW 400,000 lb / 181,400 kg

Apparently the lower wing loading of the 777X provides better control power at low speeds, during V1+ engine continue take-off.

That said, I can see the GE9X gaining thrust a bit again, even before type certification, to improve safety margins.


Are those OEW weights official yet or is that still just speculation?




For the -8X and -9X ,it also aims to reduce operating empty weight (OEW) to levels to within 15,000–30,000 lb. of the current aircraft, depending on the model. The 777-300ER OEW is around 373,500 lb., whereas the nominal OEW of the -9X is targeted at just over 400,000 lb.


https://m.aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/airbus-boeing-deciding-larger-a350-777x-versions


So nothing official yet then other than an article from 2 and a half years ago?

Doesn't the full text suggest they are trying to get 10,000lbs under to give them more Margin for a 777X-10? However they are probably talking about getting MTOW 10,000 lbs less - which I think we now know they are not doing.

However I would have to guess when they saw how good the numbers on A351 were they have pulled out all the stops to get as much weight out. Although at this point they could be 10,000 lbs under or 10,000 lbs over.

"Although designing for a maximum takeoff weight of 775,000 lb., which is common across the 777-300ER, -8X and -9X, Boeing hopes to enter service with at least a 10,000-lb. margin, which would benefit the additional stretch derivative. For the -8X and -9X ,it also aims to reduce operating empty weight (OEW) to levels to within 15,000–30,000 lb. of the current aircraft, depending on the model. The 777-300ER OEW is around 373,500 lb., whereas the nominal OEW of the -9X is targeted at just over 400,000 lb.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:08 pm

777-9 N779XW is now live on FR24 for the first time

https://twitter.com/b777xLovers/status/ ... 40896?s=20
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:30 pm

pugman211 wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
Will they need to do the wing bendy test to 150% or whatever for this version or has it been done?



I would imagine yes because it is a completely different wing.



That's why the ground test plane was built last year.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:06 pm

morrisond wrote:
So nothing official yet then other than an article from 2 and a half years ago?


At launch in 2013, Boeing said the design OEW was 190,000kg. By the post-2014 Design Gate, they noted it had reduced to 188,000kg. Leeham.net and Daniel Tsang both give a current guestimate of around 185,000kg.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:26 pm

OldAeroGuy wrote:
keesje wrote:
The 777-9 is at serious ballerina, she gained 30k lb empty weight over the 77W.

77W OEW: 370,000 lb / 167,829 kg
777X OEW 400,000 lb / 181,400 kg


But at the start of a jump ie takeoff, she weights just the same. 775,000 lb / 351,538 kg

keesje wrote:
Apparently the lower wing loading of the 777X provides better control power at low speeds, during V1+ engine continue take-off.


The lower wing loading provides lower takeoff speeds, meaning less acceleration, ie lower thrust, is needed for the same takeoff field length.

The higher wing span reduces induced drag where it is highest, ie initial climb, so less thrust is needed for the same or better climb gradient.

Those elegant longer arms are very useful.

Thanks for this. It makes sense that the gradient is better given the L/D advantage, do you have an idea what the climb rate looks like in mid to higher altitudes?
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:41 pm

How soon before taxi tests?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:25 pm

Fire detection and extinguishing functional testing being performed on N779XW (11 Apr)

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https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 57186?s=20
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:26 pm

777-9 N779XW will being testing at fuel dock later today, tests will last about 11 days

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 60064?s=20
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JAAlbert
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:34 pm

I'm sure someone posted this previously, but I am seriously disappointed that Boeing didn't use the red in-house paint scheme. The 747-8 orange livery would have been nice too. But no, they use the 737-Max paint scheme! Missed opportunity to build more positive buzz about this new flagship. (sigh)
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:28 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
I'm sure someone posted this previously, but I am seriously disappointed that Boeing didn't use the red in-house paint scheme. The 747-8 orange livery would have been nice too. But no, they use the 737-Max paint scheme! Missed opportunity to build more positive buzz about this new flagship. (sigh)

They didn’t use the 737 Max colours either - that was a darker blue. The reasoning behind it was posted on the third page of this thread:

Revelation wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
Here is the detail of Boeing’s new house livery: https://randy.newairplane.com/2018/07/0 ... ur-livery/

TFA says:

At Boeing, our liveries have evolved over the years. The most recent livery first came to life nearly a decade ago when we introduced the revolutionary 787 Dreamliner. Along the way, some models took on their own “look”. That fell short in offering a common Boeing brand identifier.

With the new livery system, we unify the look by applying the same color scheme across the entire Boeing Commercial Airplanes family. We also made a few small refinements that further streamlined the design.

I think the blue color scheme they picked is best of breed and the 777X render is stunning but I did prefer having a different color scheme (red, orange, etc) per model. I think the font/styling/patterning establishes the family concept and then each color could cause the models to stand out on their own. All blue is just too homogeneous, IMHO.

Yet it's pretty clear what we're almost certainly going to see when the models roll out:

Image

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:28 pm

The MAX theme is now the official Boeing House Theme so all their planes use it.
 
OldAeroGuy
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:27 am

Anything would be better than the hideous brown & yellow scheme used on the 727 & 737.

The red & white initial 747 was a breath of fresh air.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
Max Q
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:19 am

OldAeroGuy wrote:
Anything would be better than the hideous brown & yellow scheme used on the 727 & 737.

The red & white initial 747 was a breath of fresh air.



That was an unusual choice in those
early days, reminded me of Southwest
and their early ‘baby vomit’ livery


Agree with you on the red and white for
the first 747


Looked fantastic
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:03 pm

Flight test 2 should be out any day now to
 
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OA940
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:08 pm

Has there been a set date for the first flight?
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:55 am

777-9 N779XW pictured at fuel dock after being moved from flightline (15 April)

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