birdbrainz
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:18 pm

This is one long aircraft. It boogles the mind without looking out of proportion.
http://www.paineairport.com/images/kpae17617gh.png

Can't wait to see all the pretty silhouettes of it in cruise once it's in service.
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seabosdca
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:49 pm

A high-speed taxi test took place yesterday.

Has there ever been a program where first flight was delayed and yet this sort of ground testing, which usually happens shortly before first flight, continued on schedule? I'm wondering if Boeing is still hoping for some way to fly earlier than currently expected, either by getting a set of revised engines early or by determining that a limited amount of flight testing is safe on the existing engines.
 
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ER757
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:28 pm

seabosdca wrote:
A high-speed taxi test took place yesterday.

Has there ever been a program where first flight was delayed and yet this sort of ground testing, which usually happens shortly before first flight, continued on schedule? I'm wondering if Boeing is still hoping for some way to fly earlier than currently expected, either by getting a set of revised engines early or by determining that a limited amount of flight testing is safe on the existing engines.

I can't think of any other program like this as far as ground testing done so far ahead of flight testing. But it makes sense that since they have to be done anyhow and they have two functioning powerplants under the wings, they may as well knock them out. Plus, as you suggest, might help the get it in the air faster if GE can get the engine issue ironed out sooner than planned.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:56 pm

If nothing else, it helps shake out basic bugs in a lot of the test gear they have installed.
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upintheair2018
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:05 pm

RTO performed on August 8th: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA6csHP9EpU
 
AndyW35
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:13 pm

For some reason I still get disappointed how small the folder tips are, from all the build up my mind had pictured something a lot bigger for all the effort involved. I know this is my preconception but even so.
I am sure they will look funky from the windows looking out.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:18 pm

AndyW35 wrote:
For some reason I still get disappointed how small the folder tips are, from all the build up my mind had pictured something a lot bigger for all the effort involved. I know this is my preconception but even so.
I am sure they will look funky from the windows looking out.


This is the first time I've ever actually seen the mechanism in live action in situ. I'm impressed at how smooth the motion is.

But was that a true high-speed taxi test? I thought that in a high-speed taxi test, the NLG lifted off the ground.
-Doc Lightning-

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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:42 pm

AndyW35 wrote:
For some reason I still get disappointed how small the folder tips are, from all the build up my mind had pictured something a lot bigger for all the effort involved. I know this is my preconception but even so.
I am sure they will look funky from the windows looking out.


Small?

The tip fold is about 22 feet in longth. It is to help fit in existing gates.

The tips are quite big.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:46 pm

DocLightning wrote:
I thought that in a high-speed taxi test, the NLG lifted off the ground.


Definitely not the max weight rejected take off version where you have smoking brakes and fire trucks. That will probably be later.

bt
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325i
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:01 pm

Greetings Folks, boy that is one very aggressive looking aircraft!
All the best to Boeing and their supply partners in getting this aircraft in the air.
Despite the naysayers this aircraft will eventually rule the skies just like the 747.
well tests my bit , cheers 325i.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:13 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ2lewdUnf0 shows a nice close-up of a wing tip extending followed by a low speed taxi test on Aug 6th.

Seems the actuation of the wingtip lock starts the entire wing moving up and down a noticeable amount, presumably because there isn't much fuel in the wings to resist the motion.
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bmw123
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:33 pm

I think having the 777 actually moving and doing something helps from a marketing standpoint. Current and potential customers can see it’s something other than a paper airplane or just sitting in a hanger waiting for the engine repair. Boeing has to be really pressed to have something moving other than the 787 or end of the line 777’s.
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:41 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
AndyW35 wrote:
For some reason I still get disappointed how small the folder tips are, from all the build up my mind had pictured something a lot bigger for all the effort involved. I know this is my preconception but even so.
I am sure they will look funky from the windows looking out.


Small?

The tip fold is about 22 feet in longth. It is to help fit in existing gates.

The tips are quite big.

Just to clarify, but the folding tips are about 11 feet in length each. Since there are two of them it shaves about 22 feet total from the wingspan.
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:45 pm

bikerthai wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
I thought that in a high-speed taxi test, the NLG lifted off the ground.


Definitely not the max weight rejected take off version where you have smoking brakes and fire trucks. That will probably be later.

bt


If they were going flying anytime soon the nose may have left the runway.

The max brake energy test will probably be done at Edwards AFB.
 
waly777
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:46 pm

AndyW35 wrote:
For some reason I still get disappointed how small the folder tips are, from all the build up my mind had pictured something a lot bigger for all the effort involved. I know this is my preconception but even so.
I am sure they will look funky from the windows looking out.


They are 11ft in length... i.e. about the same as the 767 winglets, but wider. The size perception is likely due to the AC and wing size of the 777-9.
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
smartplane
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:43 am

bmw123 wrote:
I think having the 777 actually moving and doing something helps from a marketing standpoint. Current and potential customers can see it’s something other than a paper airplane or just sitting in a hanger waiting for the engine repair. Boeing has to be really pressed to have something moving other than the 787 or end of the line 777’s.

It's impressive looking.

Seeing an aircraft moving under it's own power on the ground does nothing for buyer confidence, or willingness to switch tranches of conditional orders to unconditional, especially when aware of air frame and engine issues. Unless funded by customers from existing working capital / credit lines, or Boeing Capital (not considered of a magnitude to require disclosure), or milestone payments are suspended, no order or part order (tranche) has gone unconditional.

When will they reveal the scimitars for those folding wing tips?
 
NickS
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:50 am

Evening Everyone, does anyone know if it will test this weekend or in the future?
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:42 am

smartplane wrote:
Seeing an aircraft moving under it's own power on the ground does nothing for buyer confidence, or willingness to switch tranches of conditional orders to unconditional, especially when aware of air frame and engine issues.


Airframe issues? So far the delay has been about the GE9x.
 
smartplane
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:15 am

seabosdca wrote:
smartplane wrote:
Seeing an aircraft moving under it's own power on the ground does nothing for buyer confidence, or willingness to switch tranches of conditional orders to unconditional, especially when aware of air frame and engine issues.


Airframe issues? So far the delay has been about the GE9x.

Stretching reality to believe the GE engine is so fragile NO flight tests can be performed.
 
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qf789
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:23 am

Forum Moderator
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:25 am

Forum Moderator
 
 
Scotron12
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:03 am

One fine looking airplane...does look huge!
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:26 am

Curious to see the MIG there.
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:55 pm

smartplane wrote:
Stretching reality to believe the GE engine is so fragile NO flight tests can be performed.


If GE cannot reliably determine the failure mode, it would be dangerous to send up frames and put them through the rigors of testing.

I'm not sure how airframe/engine certification paths work, but there may also be an issue that GE changing the engine design might mean that the data is no longer valid for certification, which would make the hours on the frame useless.
 
smartplane
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:32 pm

Stitch wrote:
smartplane wrote:
Stretching reality to believe the GE engine is so fragile NO flight tests can be performed.


If GE cannot reliably determine the failure mode, it would be dangerous to send up frames and put them through the rigors of testing.

I'm not sure how airframe/engine certification paths work, but there may also be an issue that GE changing the engine design might mean that the data is no longer valid for certification, which would make the hours on the frame useless.

From https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... gh-458847/ can understand GE being unwilling to start the block test 'running the engine for 25, six-hour cycles, accumulating 150h of run time during which the engine is at "redline" – its max core speed, fan speed and exhaust gas temperature', GE Aviation says.

If engine reliability is as unpredictable as you say, with all the monitoring telemetry attached to production engines, and even more on development ones, then it is extremely fragile. Or there are other factors in play.

Obviously single engine performance, and exploring the extremes of the flight envelope might be unwise, but otherwise....

Air frames have progressed towards certification with non-production engines and / or operational restrictions previously.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:14 pm

I guess a fair bit of the confusion is to what the "anomaly" was. Was it a surge? Compressor stall? Rotor failure? If Boeing and GE are unwilling to fly the plane, that would make it seem like the "anomaly" was serious.

All the media reports are pointing to the GE9X as being the reason the frames are not flying. With all the focus on Boeing (both now and in general), if there was an airframe-related issue, we would have heard about it. So it seems the GE9X is what is keeping the frames on the tarmac.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:21 pm

Stitch wrote:
smartplane wrote:
Stretching reality to believe the GE engine is so fragile NO flight tests can be performed.


If GE cannot reliably determine the failure mode, it would be dangerous to send up frames and put them through the rigors of testing.

I'm not sure how airframe/engine certification paths work, but there may also be an issue that GE changing the engine design might mean that the data is no longer valid for certification, which would make the hours on the frame useless.

Two issues:
A failure in flight test stands down the whole program and brings in weeks to months of FAA help.

All engine test flights are invalid. The first 250 hours of flight testing must be reviewed. Perhaps 30 to 50 repeated.

FAA must up staff overview. Ouch...

Lightsaber
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Reddevil556
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:08 pm

qf789 wrote:


Is that a MiG-29 in that photo? Privately owned? Just odd to see that in the background.
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:45 pm

SEPilot wrote:
777222LR wrote:
It's definitely a good looking aircraft. Can we expect the wing flex to more along the lines of the 787 now since the wings are carbon fiber? (Correct me if I'm wrong on that).

The amount of wing flex is tied to several factors. But the most important ones are the strength to stiffness ratio of the structural material, and its ability to withstand flexing without fatigue. CFRP is far superior to aluminum in these regards; it is very strong without being stiff, and is pretty much immune to fatigue, whereas aluminum is very susceptible to it. In fact, what drives the life limits that the FAA has required that airframe manufacturers put on all airliners is primarily aluminum fatigue. Steel has a fatigue floor; you can stress it less than the floor value basically indefinitely, and it will not fatigue. Aluminum does not. If you stress it repeatedly, no matter how slightly, and repeat it enough times it will crack. So aluminum wings, if they are allowed to flex a significant amount, will have much shorter lives than is desirable. CFRP wings, on the other hand, can happily flex to the designer’s heart’s content.


Also the high flex of CFRP dissipates shock loading, the flex stores a lot of energy reducing the forces and moments in a short term, no difference in a medium term or constant force situation. In aluminum, corrosion is a big deal also.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:49 pm

Reddevil556 wrote:
Is that a MiG-29 in that photo? Privately owned? Just odd to see that in the background.


It belongs to the late Paul Allen. His estate is selling it off.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:40 am

Reddevil556 wrote:
qf789 wrote:


Is that a MiG-29 in that photo? Privately owned? Just odd to see that in the background.


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... et-fighter
 
Reddevil556
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:39 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
Reddevil556 wrote:
qf789 wrote:


Is that a MiG-29 in that photo? Privately owned? Just odd to see that in the background.


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... et-fighter


Wow I only knew of the MiGs that the USAF had in Dayton, OH. Didn’t realize there were any civilian owned ones on the market yet. I remember seeing some Romanian 29s looking in rather sad shape a few years ago and wondered if those would ever get sold off.
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:25 pm

Engines are being removed from N779XW today

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 58081?s=20
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seabosdca
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:34 pm

qf789 wrote:
Engines are being removed from N779XW today

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 58081?s=20


If GE needed the engines back, that would certainly explain the hurry to complete a bunch of powered ground testing.
 
EK7777
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:28 am

 
oschkosch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:54 am

So N779xw is now officially a glider? OMG!
 
RickNRoll
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:06 am

Update on the status of the engines from flightglobal.

GE recalls 777X turbofans to address compressor issue amid scramble to minimise 777X delays
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... su-460379/

The stator design led to higher than expected temperatures in the high pressure compressor.

The engines will be flown back to GE by Volga Dneiper
 
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RRUltrafan
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:03 pm

So does GE have a fix yet or are they going to be studying the current test engines again after receiving them to run further test and assess the redesign to make sure that the engines are ready for first flight in 2020?
"Everything has an end, but, only the sausage has two" - Albert Einstein
 
Sooner787
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:20 pm

RRUltrafan wrote:
So does GE have a fix yet or are they going to be studying the current test engines again after receiving them to run further test and assess the redesign to make sure that the engines are ready for first flight in 2020?


I suspect they have fix ready to install on those 4 engines being returned to Ohio.

I also assume once they fix is installed the engine will have a few test flight on GE's 747 flying test bed

before it's cleared to fly on the 779 test frames.
 
OmerMaz
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:30 pm

Hope they'll manage to reslove the problem with engine by minimum structual modifications and more with materials.
If were talking about thermodynamics, I think that the problem is in the materials themselves.

If any engineer sees this comment, please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:41 am

N779XW and N779XX on the Everett flightline, August 24 2019.
"All quiet at the western front"

Image

Image

Original uploaded at twitter by Matt Cawby, see : https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 8139547648
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:43 am

There are now 5 777-9's on the flightline at PAE (26 Aug)

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 83776?s=20
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:40 am

Forum Moderator
 
upintheair2018
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:43 am

EK's first two 777-9s (A6-EZD left and A6-EZT right): www.facebook.com/jostrower/photos/a.254 ... 195100527/
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:06 am

Wow, those all-white craft are :eyepopping: :drool:

The 77X wing is the one that the 777 family needed all along to look right.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:49 am

qf789 wrote:
There are now 5 777-9's on the flightline at PAE (26 Aug)

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 83776?s=20

With the second for EK now out it would be six I suppose?

So we have 2 test aircraft in house colors, 2 more test aircraft in white, and 2 for EK.
Apologies if this has been answered before but I couldn't find definite answers on Google, has there been confirmation where the 4 test aircraft will end up? Heard rumors LH will eventually take WH001, but also that WH003 will be LH's first. And what about WH002 and WH004?

It also appears all 6 777X aircraft seem to have 5 doors. I know the 5th door is the 'plug door' type, but I thought it was optional and EK didn't require it. Doesn't seem to be attractive to put seats where you have door plugged, there will be maybe 3-4 rows without windows there. Of course you can install a lav there, but the point I thought was to increase the seatcount of the 777X without the 5th door. I hope some knowledgeable member can help me with an explanation perhaps? :blush:
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:07 pm

frigatebird wrote:
qf789 wrote:
There are now 5 777-9's on the flightline at PAE (26 Aug)

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 83776?s=20

With the second for EK now out it would be six I suppose?

So we have 2 test aircraft in house colors, 2 more test aircraft in white, and 2 for EK.
Apologies if this has been answered before but I couldn't find definite answers on Google, has there been confirmation where the 4 test aircraft will end up? Heard rumors LH will eventually take WH001, but also that WH003 will be LH's first. And what about WH002 and WH004?

It also appears all 6 777X aircraft seem to have 5 doors. I know the 5th door is the 'plug door' type, but I thought it was optional and EK didn't require it. Doesn't seem to be attractive to put seats where you have door plugged, there will be maybe 3-4 rows without windows there. Of course you can install a lav there, but the point I thought was to increase the seatcount of the 777X without the 5th door. I hope some knowledgeable member can help me with an explanation perhaps? :blush:


Taking away doors doesn’t increase the exit limit, it reduces it. Depending on the operator the door will needed/not needed.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:27 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Taking away doors doesn’t increase the exit limit, it reduces it. Depending on the operator the door will needed/not needed.

Removing the door increases the usable floor area. If your configuration is sufficiently low-density, less doors mean more passengers.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:25 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
qf789 wrote:
There are now 5 777-9's on the flightline at PAE (26 Aug)

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 83776?s=20

With the second for EK now out it would be six I suppose?

So we have 2 test aircraft in house colors, 2 more test aircraft in white, and 2 for EK.
Apologies if this has been answered before but I couldn't find definite answers on Google, has there been confirmation where the 4 test aircraft will end up? Heard rumors LH will eventually take WH001, but also that WH003 will be LH's first. And what about WH002 and WH004?

It also appears all 6 777X aircraft seem to have 5 doors. I know the 5th door is the 'plug door' type, but I thought it was optional and EK didn't require it. Doesn't seem to be attractive to put seats where you have door plugged, there will be maybe 3-4 rows without windows there. Of course you can install a lav there, but the point I thought was to increase the seatcount of the 777X without the 5th door. I hope some knowledgeable member can help me with an explanation perhaps? :blush:


Taking away doors doesn’t increase the exit limit, it reduces it. Depending on the operator the door will needed/not needed.


That was not my question. I did not say taking away doors increases the exit limit.

mxaxai wrote:
Removing the door increases the usable floor area. If your configuration is sufficiently low-density, less doors mean more passengers.

:checkmark: I remember Stitch mentioned EK would have their 777-9s configured with 440 pax, exactly the exit limit with 4 exits each side. So I wondered about that 5th one on the EK frames.
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Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos