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blacksoviet
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:17 am

Xe787 wrote:
UAEflyer wrote:
747classic wrote:
Very rare picture of N458BJ, Basel at July 7th 2019.

ImageN458BJ Boeing Business Jets Boeing 747-8 by Tamás Zbronkó, on Flickr

Aircraft Data : L/N 1446 - 747-8JA , RC004, serial number 40065 , BBJ customer : Saudi Crown Prince Bin Abdulaziz Al Saud (Saudi Arabian Government ), test registration N458BJ, future registration HZ-HMS1 , white livery, F/F May-30-2012, Delivery date: June 29-2012, Delivery flight (N458BJ- CYVR-KSBD) date July 9-2012. Owner : Bank of Utah Trustee, Salt Lake City, Utah (Corporation). Was stored at San Bernadino . The Future of this aircraft seems to be unsure, because the Prince passed away at October 22-2011. VIP outfitting contract with Jet Aviation (Basel) was cancelled. Ferried, again with call-sign N458BJ, to Lackland AFB TX at October 06-2012. Ferry flight (N458BJ- KSKF-LFSB) to Basel -Mulhouse at December 28-2012. Aircraft was for sale. N-registration was cancelled, but later assigned again with following limitation “This aircraft's registration status may not be suitable for operation” , applicant : AL-SHIHRI ALI OWAIDAH, 29 AL-ZAWAWI ST, AL BASATEEN DISTRICT , JEDDAH, Saudi Arabia in July-August 2018.

So what is the nearest to reality scenario for this jumbo ? It was for sale for long time , no buyer!!
I wonder who is paying for the parking? It is taking a massive space and the bill should be big to park it there.

Saudi government turned to twin engine fleet, they have 787s and 77W as a new replacement for the royal 747s currently in use.



do they have to fly this bird from time to time to keep the engines up to spec, if it sits to long I wonder how long it will be fly worthy? Sad one cannot see the bird from the street anymore, they have blocked of the main access road about 2 years ago.

Why can't this aircraft be sold to Air China?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:59 am

blacksoviet wrote:
....
Why can't this aircraft be sold to Air China?


It can.
Air China should want to buy it, before it can be sold to them, though.

By the same token, it can be sold to any airline in the world. Apparently, none of them is interested, so far.
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RobK
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:26 pm

747classic wrote:
L/N 1555, N617UP performed a customer (C1) flight to Moses Lake at August 28th with callsign BOE682.
See : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE682/history/20190828/1830Z/KPAE/KMWH

Image

Original uploaded by Jennifer Schuld at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/1166836015517945856


Peter do you know why this was at MWH for 5 hours doing nothing?
 
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seabosdca
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:53 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
By the same token, it can be sold to any airline in the world. Apparently, none of them is interested, so far.


There are three passenger 747-8 frames without operators, and none of the three existing airline operators appears interested in any of them at any reasonable price, even though they could probably be bought very cheaply for low-hour frames. I think that tells us how marginal the 747-8's economics are in today's market, when airlines are flying A350s and 787s in volume.
 
na
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:09 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
By the same token, it can be sold to any airline in the world. Apparently, none of them is interested, so far.


There are three passenger 747-8 frames without operators, and none of the three existing airline operators appears interested in any of them at any reasonable price, even though they could probably be bought very cheaply for low-hour frames. I think that tells us how marginal the 747-8's economics are in today's market, when airlines are flying A350s and 787s in volume.


Three? Which one beside the early-built that was rejected by LH? I think only that one hasn´t been taken. Or are you counting the BBJs?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:09 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
By the same token, it can be sold to any airline in the world. Apparently, none of them is interested, so far.


There are three passenger 747-8 frames without operators, and none of the three existing airline operators appears interested in any of them at any reasonable price, even though they could probably be bought very cheaply for low-hour frames. I think that tells us how marginal the 747-8's economics are in today's market, when airlines are flying A350s and 787s in volume.


I might have lost track a bit. Besides VIP bird(s) and three frames, involved in USAF presidential aircraft program (two Transaero NTU's to be converted into VC-25B's or whatever they are called, and one Lufthansa NTU, used for tests), which are passenger frames without operators?

And yes, while the idea of offloading a marooned 747-8i to one of existing 747-8i operators has theoretical merit, we can see how "enthusiastic" are these same operators towards non-standard frames. Fate of Lufthansa's NTU is an example -- and the "gravest sin" of that plane, while it was built as a passenger 747-8i, it was an early frame, and was to operate under somewhat different maintenance regime.
A VIP bird, suddenly re-purposed for airline use, might be a tougher nut.
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Sooner787
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:11 pm

na wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
By the same token, it can be sold to any airline in the world. Apparently, none of them is interested, so far.


There are three passenger 747-8 frames without operators, and none of the three existing airline operators appears interested in any of them at any reasonable price, even though they could probably be bought very cheaply for low-hour frames. I think that tells us how marginal the 747-8's economics are in today's market, when airlines are flying A350s and 787s in volume.


Three? Which one beside the early-built that was rejected by LH? I think only that one hasn´t been taken. Or are you counting the BBJs?


2 of the 3 were NTU by Transaero , but were bought by the USAF as future Air Force 1 platforms.

I think the 3rd frame is involved in flight test for the AF1 project IIRC
 
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Stitch
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:18 pm

There is little doubt the 747-8 is not an in-demand frame, but existing operators are not going to want to add a non-standard frame to their fleets with it's own maintenance regimen and schedule. As noted, LH decided not to take their first frame (LN 1435) because it had been used extensively to test airframe systems and therefore ended up with it's own unique maintenance record which would have made it an outlier in LH's fleet. It has also been said that it is several tons heavier than her early LH 747-8 peers as Boeing added ballast to it for the testing and supposedly "lost track of it" - I expect the actual reason is they could not get it out due to location or installation.

So if LH did not want a frame that was built to their customer specifications, you can be pretty sure another operator would not want it for no other reason because it was not built to their specifications (and I imagine brining it up to their customer spec would be expensive).

LN1435 has been tasked to the USAF VC-25B program and I imagine once that work is done, it will either be scrapped or the Administration will buy it as a third frame (though considering the cost overruns on bringing the two Transaero NTUs to the VC-25B spec, I expect this will not happen).
 
blacksoviet
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:25 pm

They should make Atlas Air an offer they can't refuse for LN 1446 and call it a day. The same should be done with LN 1435 unless the Air Force wants it as a hot spare.

Atlas Air will eventually need to start replacing some of their 747-400s. Does the 748 consume more fuel than the 744?

I think that at least one of these frames will one day end up with Atlas.
 
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747classic
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:33 pm

Stitch wrote:
There is little doubt the 747-8 is not an in-demand frame, but existing operators are not going to want to add a non-standard frame to their fleets with it's own maintenance regimen and schedule. As noted, LH decided not to take their first frame (LN 1435) because it had been used extensively to test airframe systems and therefore ended up with it's own unique maintenance record which would have made it an outlier in LH's fleet. It has also been said that it is several tons heavier than her early LH 747-8 peers as Boeing added ballast to it for the testing and supposedly "lost track of it" - I expect the actual reason is they could not get it out due to location or installation.

So if LH did not want a frame that was built to their customer specifications, you can be pretty sure another operator would not want it for no other reason because it was not built to their specifications (and I imagine brining it up to their customer spec would be expensive).

LN1435 has been tasked to the USAF VC-25B program and I imagine once that work is done, it will either be scrapped or the Administration will buy it as a third frame (though considering the cost overruns on bringing the two Transaero NTUs to the VC-25B spec, I expect this will not happen).


:checkmark:

The same is valid for L/N 1146, it's an BBJ airframe, built according an other basic number specification than the passengers 747-8I frames.

To be exact : L/N 1146 is sold to an Saudia entity and Boeing is not the owner of this frame.
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seabosdca
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:01 pm

My error. There are only two frames unaccounted for: the Saudi-owned green BBJ in Basel and the LH NTU. I had forgotten about the "gift" of the former VQ-BSK, the Qatari royal user of which had died, to the Turkish government--that was the third frame I had in mind.

I don't think Boeing will cooperate in any effort to turn passenger 747-8 frames into freighters until after it has to finally close the 747 line.
 
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RobK
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:36 pm

Stitch wrote:
LN1435 has been tasked to the USAF VC-25B program


Chris, do you have an reputable/official source for this please? I may have missed the announcement by the USAF and/or Boeing but all I've seen are amateur blog posts posting speculation which has then been reposted everywhere as fact. I'm happy to bow to your superior knowledge and be corrected though if applicable! :)
 
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Stitch
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:41 pm

RobK wrote:
Chris, do you have an reputable/official source for this please? I may have missed the announcement by the USAF and/or Boeing but all I've seen are amateur blog posts posting speculation which has then been reposted everywhere as fact.


I'm just going off the blog posts. :embarrassed2:

They did fly the frame to Lackland Air Force Base for a few months last year and that is where the VC-25B conversion work is to be performed, which might have been what kicked off the speculation. It left for Victorville (where it evidently still is) in June of 2018 so it might very well have just been flown to Lackland to be used as a "stand in" to test the facilities where the actual VC-25Bs will be modified.
 
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RobK
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:50 pm

Thanks. In that case we should tread carefully then. As you no doubt know, Boeing has a facility at Kelly Field so it could have been there for any number of reasons. I will make enquiries at some point to see if I can find out what the plans for it are.
 
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747classic
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:17 am

RobK wrote:
Thanks. In that case we should tread carefully then. As you no doubt know, Boeing has a facility at Kelly Field so it could have been there for any number of reasons. I will make enquiries at some point to see if I can find out what the plans for it are.


Rob,
below are the data of L/N 1435 in my 747-8 archive :

L/N 1435 - 747-830, RC021, serial number 37826, F/F April-26-2011, 747-8I test aircraft #2, test registration N6067U, Lufthansa #1 (NTU), selcal code CS-HP, basic LH color scheme, without lettering and LH logo, D-ABYE( NTU), Scheduled LH delivery date was September-30-2012 , Resumed additional flight testing (tail tank, GEnx-2B PIP, NGFMS updates) at May 20 2013, flight testing out of San Bernadino (KBSD) from May 26, returned to Moses Lake at June 18 for additional low altitude tests, from June 28 at Inca Manco Cápac Intl. airport Peru (JUL/SPJL) for high altitude airport tests, returned to Moses Lake via Houston at July 10, latest flight tests are flown from Boeing Field and Moses Lake, aircraft was scheduled to be sold later, but is internally listed : TBC (The Boeing Company). Refurbishment to production standard at the KPAE flight line completed. Re-registered at December 12 2014 : N828BA. Flown to Marana (KMZJ) for storage at May 21 2015. Returned to KPAE at July 28 2017. Stored at RW11/29 at November 20th 2017. Ferried to San Antonio (KSKF) at February 16th 2018. Installed one (1)GEnx-2B/P test engine with durability improvements. Ferried to Boeing Field (KBFI) at March 03th 2018 for testing , Ferried to San Antonio (KSKF) at March 11th 2018, removed test engine and installed standard engine, Ferried to Victorville (KVCV) at June 15th 2018 for storage. Will probably be used for (flight)testing of VC-25B mod’s.

The VC-25B (flight) testing is not verified by multiple sources.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
UAEflyer
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:27 pm

How many 747-8 BBJs are in operation now ?
Maybe 5 in the gulf region!!
 
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Stitch
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:02 pm

UAEflyer wrote:
How many 747-8 BBJs are in operation now?


Based on 747classic's inventory report, six of the nine should be in operation:

Kuwait - 1
UAE - 1
Turkey - 1 (a gift from Qatar)
Brunei - 1
Qatar -2

Qatar has one more awaiting outfitting (a UAE NTU), there is one frame owned by a Saudi Arabian company that is for sale and Oman is awaiting delivery of their frame (currently in outfitting).
 
MoonC
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:09 pm

Stitch wrote:
UAEflyer wrote:
How many 747-8 BBJs are in operation now?


Based on 747classic's inventory report, six of the nine should be in operation:

Kuwait - 1
UAE - 1
Turkey - 1 (a gift from Qatar)
Brunei - 1
Qatar -2

Qatar has one more awaiting outfitting (a UAE NTU), there is one frame owned by a Saudi Arabian company that is for sale and Oman is awaiting delivery of their frame (currently in outfitting).


The UAE one has been gifted to Morocco. CN-MBH, ex-A6-PFA.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:12 pm

Stitch wrote:
UAEflyer wrote:
How many 747-8 BBJs are in operation now?


Based on 747classic's inventory report, six of the nine should be in operation:

Kuwait - 1
UAE - 1
Turkey - 1 (a gift from Qatar)
Brunei - 1
Qatar -2

Qatar has one more awaiting outfitting (a UAE NTU), there is one frame owned by a Saudi Arabian company that is for sale and Oman is awaiting delivery of their frame (currently in outfitting).


Something doesn't add up
Kuwait -- LN 1434
Qatar -- LN 1439, 1449, 1494
Morocco -- LN 1440
Brunei -- LN 1459
Turkey -- LN 1468
Oman -- LN 1466
Saudi Arabia -- LN 1446

I don't see a frame that you mentioned as UAE. You mean the frame that was gifted to Morocco?
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MoonC
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:13 pm

Misunderstood
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:22 pm

MoonC wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Stitch wrote:

Based on 747classic's inventory report, six of the nine should be in operation:

Kuwait - 1
UAE - 1
Turkey - 1 (a gift from Qatar)
Brunei - 1
Qatar -2

Qatar has one more awaiting outfitting (a UAE NTU), there is one frame owned by a Saudi Arabian company that is for sale and Oman is awaiting delivery of their frame (currently in outfitting).


Something doesn't add up
Kuwait -- LN 1434
Qatar -- LN 1439, 1449, 1494
Morocco -- LN 1440
Brunei -- LN 1459
Turkey -- LN 1468
Oman -- LN 1466
Saudi Arabia -- LN 1446

I don't see a frame that you mentioned as UAE. You mean the frame that was gifted to Morocco?


Yes. UAE no longer has a BBJ747-8. It's gone to Morocco. LN1440


Thanks. You were faster with your reply. :)

One thing I don't get -- Boeing reported in October 2017:
"BBJ booked 14 sales over the last year, valued at $2.7 billion

Business Jets announced today at the National Business Aviation Conference and Exhibition it booked 14 new orders in the last year.

The orders include one 737, four BBJs, three BBJ MAXs, one BBJ 787-8, two BBJ 777-300ERs and three BBJ 747-8s."
https://www.boeing.com/commercial/bbj/n ... arket.page

Apparently, I am missing something. The youngest of BBJ 747-8i had a maiden flight around 2014. What are these three orders? Are they real?
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747classic
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:54 pm

Boeing 747-8/BBJ aircraft sold in 2017 are L/N 1495 - 747-8Z5, RC009 for Qatar (UAE ntu) and the two 747- 85M aircraft, green delivered to the USAF PAR program.

L/N 1519 - 747-85M , RC076 and L/N 1523 - 747-85M, RC077 are both classified as a 747-8I/BBJ !

If you look at the BBJ overview page below you see a total of 11 delivered 747-8i/BBJ aircraft , with 6 in service :
https://www.boeing.com/commercial/bbj/

Scroll down to orders and deliveries,
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Phosphorus
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:36 pm

747classic wrote:
Boeing 747-8/BBJ aircraft sold in 2017 are L/N 1495 - 747-8Z5, RC009 for Qatar (UAE ntu) and the two 747- 85M aircraft, green delivered to the USAF PAR program.

L/N 1519 - 747-85M , RC076 and L/N 1523 - 747-85M, RC077 are both classified as a 747-8I/BBJ !

If you look at the BBJ overview page below you see a total of 11 delivered 747-8i/BBJ aircraft , with 6 in service :
https://www.boeing.com/commercial/bbj/

Scroll down to orders and deliveries,


Thank you. It does make sense.

Looks like BBJ 747-8 is an airplane that statistically, is likely to be stubbornly heading towards Qatari ownership (even if temporary, as in case of LN 1468), and away from UAE ownership.

With (a possible) exception of LN 1446, stuck in limbo, all other 747-8, originally built as BBJ, are conspicuously owned by countries, where Islam dominates (1446 is not an exception yet, but it might become).
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VirginFlyer
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:48 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
747classic wrote:
Boeing 747-8/BBJ aircraft sold in 2017 are L/N 1495 - 747-8Z5, RC009 for Qatar (UAE ntu) and the two 747- 85M aircraft, green delivered to the USAF PAR program.

L/N 1519 - 747-85M , RC076 and L/N 1523 - 747-85M, RC077 are both classified as a 747-8I/BBJ !

If you look at the BBJ overview page below you see a total of 11 delivered 747-8i/BBJ aircraft , with 6 in service :
https://www.boeing.com/commercial/bbj/

Scroll down to orders and deliveries,


Thank you. It does make sense.

Looks like BBJ 747-8 is an airplane that statistically, is likely to be stubbornly heading towards Qatari ownership (even if temporary, as in case of LN 1468), and away from UAE ownership.

With (a possible) exception of LN 1446, stuck in limbo, all other 747-8, originally built as BBJ, are conspicuously owned by countries, where Islam dominates (1446 is not an exception yet, but it might become).

Perhaps more pertinently, they are conspicuously owned by counties with significant sovereign wealth on the back of natural resources.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:49 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
...
Perhaps more pertinently, they are conspicuously owned by counties with significant sovereign wealth on the back of natural resources.

V/F


Well, if you mean original buyers -- yes.

However, Turkey and Morocco do not qualify as per your criteria. And ended up owning 747-8i BBJs.
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747classic
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:07 pm

After some technical issues N617UP was delivered a few days later than scheduled.

N617UP delivery flight 5X9105 towards Louisville (KSDF) at September 03th 2019, see :
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS ... /KPAE/KSDF

N617UP, climb out from Paine Field

Image

Original uploaded by Jennifer Schuld at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/11 ... 2050654211
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blacksoviet
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:56 am

Will any small airlines order the 747-8F to replace 747-200 and 747-300 freighters? Perhaps Boeing will offer them a good deal for some small orders at the end of the line.

Does the 747-8F consume less fuel than the 747-200F?
 
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Stitch
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:40 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Will any small airlines order the 747-8F to replace 747-200 and 747-300 freighters? Perhaps Boeing will offer them a good deal for some small orders at the end of the line.


Depends on if they can justify the capital costs of a 747-8F. A 777F might make a better platform - similar payload volume and weight and almost 30% lower total operating costs.


blacksoviet wrote:
Does the 747-8F consume less fuel than the 747-200F?


Significantly less - overall operating costs are 27% lower per Boeing and fuel would be a major portion of that savings.
 
TC957
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:43 am

I'm surprised Asiana Cargo haven't ordered a few 748F's to replace their 744BCF's. Wasn't there some regulation in Korea about not operating aircraft more than 20 years old that was passed a while ago ?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:20 am

TC957 wrote:
I'm surprised Asiana Cargo haven't ordered a few 748F's to replace their 744BCF's. Wasn't there some regulation in Korea about not operating aircraft more than 20 years old that was passed a while ago ?

Asiana appears to be literally fighting for its life:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1418707
I would guess, they have other priorities now -- like finding a new owner, as the existing one can't afford the airline anymore.
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TC957
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:54 am

Phosphorus wrote:
TC957 wrote:
I'm surprised Asiana Cargo haven't ordered a few 748F's to replace their 744BCF's. Wasn't there some regulation in Korea about not operating aircraft more than 20 years old that was passed a while ago ?

Asiana appears to be literally fighting for its life:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1418707
I would guess, they have other priorities now -- like finding a new owner, as the existing one can't afford the airline anymore.

Fair point, I forgot about their financial struggles.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:51 am

Is the VC-25B being built with a navigator's station? What about an engineering panel?
 
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747classic
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:46 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Is the VC-25B being built with a navigator's station? What about an engineering panel?


The final flight deck configuration is not known yet.
But AFAIK a third crewmember will be added, for navigational/communication purposes in emergengy situations, a sort of mission commander with a limited panel (could be at the former F/E position, RH side, aft of the co pilot.)

But this question better has to be answered by the military professionals at the Military Aviation Forum .(Air Force one thread ?)
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Rhinomd11
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:20 pm

Someone here always had great info. on the staging firing order and tentative delivery dates. What is the delivery schedule for 2020 in regards to the -8F? Still 6-7 total to UPS and or Air Bridge? Probably first delivery in February?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:53 pm

Rhinomd11 wrote:
Someone here always had great info. on the staging firing order and tentative delivery dates. What is the delivery schedule for 2020 in regards to the -8F? Still 6-7 total to UPS and or Air Bridge? Probably first delivery in February?

Indeed, 747classic does a great job of keeping us up to date. As recently as a month ago, this was the situation:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411909&start=100#p21581843

747classic wrote:
747-8 firing order update :

After L/N 1555, 747-8F, RC682, UPS, serial number 64263, N6009F, N617UP, ferried to Portland for paint at August 08th, the following aircraft are listed :

L/N 1556, 747-8F, RC683, UPS, serial number 64264, N618UP, FAL, scheduled del Oct 2019.
L/N 1557, 747-8F, RC684, UPS, serial number 65787, N620UP, the first of the second order of 14 aircraft, scheduled del Nov 2019
L/N 1558, 747-8F, RC610, Volga Dnepr (AirBridgeCargo) , serial number 63784, VQ-BIO


With official order book now standing at 20:
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/ord ... iew+Report
16 for UPS, 4 for Volga-Dnepr UK
and production rate at (approximately) 13 frames every two years, you can make a fairly reliable forecast, of 2020 first delivery being to Volga-Dnepr; possibly seven deliveries altogether -- more likely six; and a good chance that with the exception of the first one -- all others ending up with UPS.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
gabep
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:50 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
They should make Atlas Air an offer they can't refuse for LN 1446 and call it a day. The same should be done with LN 1435 unless the Air Force wants it as a hot spare.

Atlas Air will eventually need to start replacing some of their 747-400s. Does the 748 consume more fuel than the 744?

I think that at least one of these frames will one day end up with Atlas.


The reality is that at some point in a coming decade or two Atlas will transition to the 777F and that makes picking up used 777-300ers coming off fleet registers for their passenger operations far more likely a scenario.

And no, there are many mission profiles where the 747-8 consumes less fuel with a greater payload than the 747-400.

GCP
 
UPS757Pilot
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:53 am

Wouldn't be surprised to see UPS place a top-off order at some point.
 
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747classic
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:55 am

UPS757Pilot wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised to see UPS place a top-off order at some point.


Will the six (6) high time UPS 747-400 aircraft (all built in 1993, except N582UP in 1997) receive another HMV before 2022 or will these aircraft be replaced by a 747-8F (top-off order) ?

N583UP, 116.253 hrs, 19.596 cycles at 09/28/2018
N581UP, 109.047 hrs. 18,258 cycles at 08/06/2018
N578UP, 104.780 hrs. 17.439 cycles at 11/26/2018
N579UP, 101.925 hrs. 17.129 cycles at 02/04/2019
N580UP, 101.727 hrs. 17.398 cycles at 02/28/2019
N582UP, --94.915 hrs. 16.596 cycles at 06/11/2018

Source FAA SDR : https://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx

Especially both BCF aircraft (N579UP and N580UP) are sub-standard (no nose door) and are wearing faster because both are originally built as a combi, with a lower MZFW. During the conversion not all structural parts can be strenghtend to the present MZFW, so the structure will experience more tear and wear then factory built freighters.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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ER757
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:07 pm

UPS757Pilot wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised to see UPS place a top-off order at some point.

Or Cargolux - if OZ was in better financial shape they might have ordered a small fleet too. I guess SQ has to decide soon whether or not to continue to have a dedicated freighter fleet. Their 744's are getting up there in age. If they do carry on, will it be 748-F or 777-F?
 
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SQ22
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:09 pm

Please continue discussion of future 747-8 orders here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1431501

Thanks.
 
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747classic
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:41 am

The next 747-8F emerged from the Final Assembly Line (FAL) at September 23th 2019.

L/N 1556, N618UP, KPAE flight line, September 24th 2019
Image

For a larger picture, see : http://kpae.blogspot.com/2019/09/paine-field-september-24.html
And double click on the picture.

Aircraft data : L/N 1556, 747-8F, RC683, UPS, serial number 64264, N618UP, roll out September 23th 2019, scheduled del Oct 2019
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:56 am

A4O-HMS 747-8 BBJ Royal Flight of Oman first flight after VIP cabin modifcations, see:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE7/history/20190930/1530Z/KCNW/KCNW

A4O-HMS departed Waco, Sep 30th 2019, on a functional check flight as BOE007 after completion of modifications by L-3. The frame has been at Waco since Dec12, 2012 when it arrived from Paine Field via Vancouver.

N5511V (A40-HMS), KPAE, Nov 15th 2012
Image

Original uploaded by Matt Cawby (paineairport.com) at Flickr, see :https://www.flickr.com/photos/microvolt/8190481094/

Aircraft data : L/N 1466 - 747-8H0, RC007, serial number 39749, Royal Flight Oman, test registration N5511V, future registration A4O-HMS, selcal code FR-AD, white livery, FAL roll-out October 07-2012, F/F November-16-2012, Delivery date December 10-2012 . Delivery flight (A4OHMS- CYVR- KCNW) date : December 12-2012. Cabin outfitting by L3 Platform Integration at Waco, TX. The aircraft modification was delayed following identification of quality problems. First test flight following cabin installation at September 30th 2019. Expected delivery 2019 ?
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
juliuswong
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:51 pm

Seven years for cabin modifications...that's crazy long...
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
na
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:24 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Seven years for cabin modifications...that's crazy long...

Must be some crazy things the ruler of Oman asked for!
 
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747classic
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:21 pm

747classic wrote:

A4O-HMS departed Waco, Sep 30th 2019, on a functional check flight as BOE007 after completion of modifications by L-3. The frame has been at Waco since Dec12, 2012 when it arrived from Paine Field via Vancouver.


Despite that the aircraft was sold already 7 years ago, the callsign of this first functional test flight was BOE007.
Probably after almost 7 years on the ground, one of the Boeing flight crews normally performing the Boeing test flights at the factory, was send to Waco, to perform this flight.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:43 am

N618UP for UPS, the last of the first order of 14, made her first (B1) flight towards Moses Lake at October 01th 2019 with callsign BOE683, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE683/history/20191001/2000Z/KPAE/KMWH

Image

Image

Original uploaded by Jennifer Schuld at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/1179151894654009345

For a taxi video, see : https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/1179149164069842945

Aircraft data : L/N 1556, 747-8F, RC683, UPS #14, serial number 64264, N618UP, roll out September 23th 2019, F/F October 01th 2019, scheduled delivery October 2019.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
kaitak
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:41 am

Given that all of the other 748s (including the two for the USAF) are already built, might this actually be the last 747 built. How many more are on the production line?
 
Noshow
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:01 am

Boeing indicates a backlog of 20 747 as of today.
While the pax version might not get much more demand the freighter might very well be needed for it's high deck, range and nose door.
 
trex8
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:34 pm

Noshow wrote:
Boeing indicates a backlog of 20 747 as of today.
While the pax version might not get much more demand the freighter might very well be needed for it's high deck, range and nose door.

Flight deckfloor intrusion limits nose door cargo to 8 ft height, 747 does have advantage of taking 10ft uncontoured pallets behind the flight deck while 777F will need to contour them. Nose door is really only useful for long cargo.
At 77F max payload @225K lbs, 748 has maybe 1000nm more range but you are also only carrying 75% of its max payload.
And the 77F is burning probably 7 vs 9 tons fuel/hr compared to -8F
Yes there is a place for 747-8F but I think twin freighters will replace most 744Fs (90% payload for 110% range for almost 30% less fuel).
 
steeler83
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Re: 747 Delivery/Production Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:46 pm

Over time I could see twin jets replacing the 747 cargo frames, but for now it seems as tho there is enough demand to keep the 748Fs in the production line.

That said, I would like to know what will become of the last 748i frames that were never delivered.
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