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Atlwarrior
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:42 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:09 pm

BTVB6Flyer wrote:
TPA-ATL starting 10/6


Starting San Juan from ATL as well.


https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/new ... s_headline
 
F9LASDEN
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:14 pm

Atlwarrior wrote:
BTVB6Flyer wrote:
TPA-ATL starting 10/6


Starting San Juan from ATL as well.


https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/new ... s_headline


They’ve flown SJU-ATL for close to 2 years now (since October 2017). They new SJU route announced today is TPA-SJU.
Spirit of the West...A Whole Different Animal...Low Fares Done Right
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:43 pm

So it's for TPA:
EWR
SJU
ATL
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:31 pm

mn2018 wrote:
Does anyone know how the flights from BMI are performing? I hope DEN and MCO are doing well.


Do not know about MCO, but DEN is doing "reasonably" well with load factors in the 80s. I was on the BMI-DEN flight last week and and there were not a lot of empty seats. Frontier is using the 320 on the DEN legs, which is a lot of plane (180 seats) for central Illinois to fill. Couple this with a way to early DEN departure of 6:00am makes it difficult for a true read of the long term prospect of retaining the destination. The flights remain seasonal and will end mid-November. Am hoping they will restart in late April or early May 2020.

Frontier 14
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:26 pm

Lol looked at their route map onlnli. WTF is that mess? Worldwide dots, etc ? Who they have running tgat? And Tyler STILL not on it, but 1,000 other places are. Joke!
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:49 pm

Frontier today (9/10/19) announced three new routes, less than daily, for the upcoming winter season:
MCO-MCI
MCO-GRB (Green Bay)
IND-CUN

Frontier 14
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:42 am

Schedule extended through Mid-April
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:52 am

Looks like SYR-MCO/RSW go daily near the middle of April.
 
southsky
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:18 pm

I see the schedule has been extended to August. Though I'm seeing a lot of holes (or route suspensions), so it might not all be final as of yet.
 
iflykpdx
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:50 pm

Looks like DEN-SJC is suspended after 4/21.
Airport Management - UND
 
bridge29
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:26 pm

I see no DEN-MDT and MDT-MCO only 2x a week. Ouch.
 
TYSflyer
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:42 pm

I do not see any service whatsoever to BHM. Is this a new development? I wasn’t aware that they had completely discontinued service there. I really thought they would do well there.
 
PVD757
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:50 pm

PVD is only showing 3x weekly MCO. No DEN, RDU, or CLT. BOS and BDL are both showing MCO, DEN, and RDU.
 
southsky
Posts: 124
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:54 pm

Yes, it seems this schedule has a lot of holes!

BFM-DEN/ORD don't show after 4/22 as expected and PNS-ORD/PHL don't show either.

No LFT-DEN or TYR-DEN... several others.
 
heretothere
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:00 pm

When F9 extends their schedule, they exclusively sell discount den fares for a few weeks. If a route doesn’t have discount den fares it won’t show up. Why some routes don’t have any, I don’t know...
 
OslPhlWasChi
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:24 pm

Just a quick look and it looks like many of the lowest frequency routes from last summer out of PHL are gone: CVG, MCI, MEM, MKE, MSN, OMA, PNS

Most of those were 2-3x weekly last year. I haven't done a comparison of returning routes but I wonder how the overall seat count compares. Undoubtedly are there fewer routes but I am not sure if this will actually translate into less seats.
Last edited by OslPhlWasChi on Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
flybry
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:57 pm

When will EWR-DEN start?
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:34 pm

flybry wrote:
When will EWR-DEN start?


I am also interested in this. Also why haven’t they started selling tickets yet?
 
Buddys747
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:04 pm

bridge29 wrote:
I see no DEN-MDT and MDT-MCO only 2x a week. Ouch.

Let’s hope that’s not the case! If it is they might as well pack up and leave, really no point in staying around for that! Let NK come in instead!
 
F9LASDEN
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:12 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
flybry wrote:
When will EWR-DEN start?


I am also interested in this. Also why haven’t they started selling tickets yet?


Hopefully they’ll announce the details on that soon. Semi-related, it seems that DEN-LGA won’t be returning next summer (CVG-LGA doesn’t appear to be either, with both MCO-LGA and MIA-LGA instead being extended to year-round), and I’m wondering if their planned entrance into DEN-EWR is related to that.
Spirit of the West...A Whole Different Animal...Low Fares Done Right
 
whatusaid
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:21 pm

FAT-DEN is going 4x week starting in April.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:53 pm

SBA-DEN is returning seasonally 3x weekly, but not until June. Again, a 7pm departure with little connecting opportunities.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:48 am

whatusaid wrote:
FAT-DEN is going 4x week starting in April.


NICE! I am a bit surprised at Sa instead of Su, but this is great!
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 am

flybry wrote:
When will EWR-DEN start?


Am hearing there may be an announcement(s) come next week that will answer your question.

Frontier 14
 
joeljack
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:41 am

Omaha:
OMA-DEN is still 4x weekly. Times are WAY better. They had been doing like a 6am DEN-OMA that was rarely full. Now a 3pm DEN departure and a 6pm OMA-DEN flight. They should be way higher yielding and full.
OMA-PHL 2x weekly last year, not on the schedule. No surprise to me.
OMA-LAS 3x weekly - same as last year I think.
OMA-MCO Zero. It has been flown over the summer for many many many years now dating back to the old Frontier a decade ago. I wonder what gives? These always seemed full! Super surprised here!
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:44 am

I can't wait until all of the cities they serve show up on their destination map....
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
jeepyjeep
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:48 am

Buddys747 wrote:
bridge29 wrote:
I see no DEN-MDT and MDT-MCO only 2x a week. Ouch.

Let’s hope that’s not the case! If it is they might as well pack up and leave, really no point in staying around for that! Let NK come in instead!


Ah man, sorry to hear that about DEN-MDT but keeping my fingers crossed that it will be added back to the schedule at a later date. Wonder if it's because the A319s are supposed to leave the fleet? That route was served primarily by the 319.

Although, for what it's worth, the Frontier website still notes that DEN-MDT is a seasonal route. I would think if it was truly scrapped, the site would not mention anything about the route being seasonal.
 
flybry
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:21 am

Frontier14 wrote:
flybry wrote:
When will EWR-DEN start?


Am hearing there may be an announcement(s) come next week that will answer your question.

Frontier 14


Cool, thanks!
 
Buddys747
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Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:33 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:02 pm

jeepyjeep wrote:
Buddys747 wrote:
bridge29 wrote:
I see no DEN-MDT and MDT-MCO only 2x a week. Ouch.

Let’s hope that’s not the case! If it is they might as well pack up and leave, really no point in staying around for that! Let NK come in instead!


Ah man, sorry to hear that about DEN-MDT but keeping my fingers crossed that it will be added back to the schedule at a later date. Wonder if it's because the A319s are supposed to leave the fleet? That route was served primarily by the 319.

Although, for what it's worth, the Frontier website still notes that DEN-MDT is a seasonal route. I would think if it was truly scrapped, the site would not mention anything about the route being seasonal.

Here’s hoping. I was on DEN-MDT in November it was substituted with an A320, probably 20 empty seats on the flight give or take.
 
ATLgaUSA
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:30 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
I do not see any service whatsoever to BHM. Is this a new development? I wasn’t aware that they had completely discontinued service there. I really thought they would do well there.

They framed it as a seasonal discontinuation. Load factors were in the high 80s, I believe. We will see if they return. They were offering non-daily flights in both markets against multiple daily nonstops.
 
n7371f
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:30 am

Looks like GEG-LAS is dumped and GEG-DEN goes to 4x weekly vs 2/3 weekly last year with 4x weekly LAS.
 
USAavdork
Posts: 83
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:43 am

I think they are still working in the schedules. There’s a lot of homes that otherwise don’t make sense!
 
jeepyjeep
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:14 pm

USAavdork wrote:
I think they are still working in the schedules. There’s a lot of homes that otherwise don’t make sense!


The more I read, I agree with this statement.

Frontier just had an event in Las Vegas to celebrate the fact that they will soon be flying to 37 destinations from Las Vegas and based on the maps that were shown at the event (pictures were posted on Social Media), GEG is one of the destinations they are counting as part of that 37. So hopefully some of the routes we are not seeing (like DEN-MDT) will in fact come back after additional schedule tweaks.
 
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knope2001
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:46 am

Here are summer 2019 markets not for sale in summer 2020 -- all stations with 4 or more missing markets

Denver:
IAD JAX LFT MDT PVD SAV TYR LGA BFM BHM BKG

Raleigh
CMH CVG JAX MKE MSY PBI PVD SAN TPA

Austin
DTW MSP MSY ONT SLC CVG SNA

Cincinnati
AUS JAX LGA PHL RDU SFO PHX

Philadelphia
PNS MCI MEM MSN OMA MKE CVG

Chicago:
BFM JAX BKG HRL PNS RSW SYR

Orlando
BHM BMI LFT PSM SAN TUL

Las Vegas
GEG GSP IAD JAX MSN ORF

Jacksonville
LAS ORD DEN RDU CVG

San Antonio
COS IAD MSY ONT SAN

San Diego
CLE SAT RDU MCO

Colorado Springs
ATL MSP IAD SAT

Washington Dulles
DEN COS LAS SAT

Cities with no summer 2020 flights currently showing
Mobile BFM
Birmingham PHM
Branson BKG
Layfayette LFT
Tyler TYR

On occasion I've seen Frontier bring back something which was missing from an initial schedule rollout but it's a solid bet most if not all of these will not fly this summer. Beyond these there are a few dozen additional drops not hitting the list such as CLE-SRQ because neither city had 4+ dropped routes.

When Frontier's inevitable flock of new city pairs is rolled out in the next weeks and someone says "how can they add all these markets", this is a big part of it.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:11 am

knope2001 wrote:
Here are summer 2019 markets not for sale in summer 2020 -- all stations with 4 or more missing markets

Denver:
IAD JAX LFT MDT PVD SAV TYR LGA BFM BHM BKG

Raleigh
CMH CVG JAX MKE MSY PBI PVD SAN TPA

Austin
DTW MSP MSY ONT SLC CVG SNA

Cincinnati
AUS JAX LGA PHL RDU SFO PHX

Philadelphia
PNS MCI MEM MSN OMA MKE CVG

Chicago:
BFM JAX BKG HRL PNS RSW SYR

Orlando
BHM BMI LFT PSM SAN TUL

Las Vegas
GEG GSP IAD JAX MSN ORF

Jacksonville
LAS ORD DEN RDU CVG

San Antonio
COS IAD MSY ONT SAN

San Diego
CLE SAT RDU MCO

Colorado Springs
ATL MSP IAD SAT

Washington Dulles
DEN COS LAS SAT

Cities with no summer 2020 flights currently showing
Mobile BFM
Birmingham PHM
Branson BKG
Layfayette LFT
Tyler TYR
GG
On occasion I've seen Frontier bring back something which was missing from an initial schedule rollout but it's a solid bet most if not all of these will not fly this summer. Beyond these there are a few dozen additional drops not hitting the list such as CLE-SRQ because neither city had 4+ dropped routes.

When Frontier's inevitable flock of new city pairs is rolled out in the next weeks and someone says "how can they add all these markets", this is a big part of it.


BKG/DEN shows back up in April. I have read several complaints that they vut the service off too soon and many want it through Jan 1st. The Christmas Season at Silver Dollar City is huge.
 
FlyPNS1
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:52 am

If true, it’s a big blow for BFM to lose F9. I think they were hoping an LCC would give the new airport a boost.

I’m not surprised PNS-ORD failed. 2x weekly was never going to work against UA running daily.
 
jplatts
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:37 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
I’m not surprised PNS-ORD failed. 2x weekly was never going to work against UA running daily.


WN also has weekend-only nonstop service to PNS from MDW, but at least WN offers 1-stop connections to MDW from PNS through BNA during weekdays. WN is also much bigger in the Chicago market than F9 or NK are.

Less-than-daily nonstop service to PNS from Chicago is less of an issue for WN than it is for F9 due to passengers being able to make return trips back to MDW from PNS through BNA on WN.
 
pmanni1
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:42 pm

Wow Tyler TX got dropped!! Who on earth didn't see that coming?
 
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knope2001
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Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:13 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
BKG/DEN shows back up in April. I have read several complaints that they vut the service off too soon and many want it through Jan 1st. The Christmas Season at Silver Dollar City is huge.


Yup -- BKG-DEN is back for summer. May have been a mistake on my part of my manual tally or possibly that it was restored since I checked. I looked at the 3rd week in June.


FlyPNS1 wrote:
If true, it’s a big blow for BFM to lose F9. I think they were hoping an LCC would give the new airport a boost.

I’m not surprised PNS-ORD failed. 2x weekly was never going to work against UA running daily.


It appears Mobile and Tyler both end in late April, and Lafayette's hope to be restored in spring 2020 (after being "suspended" in November) is not happening. Quite a few long-hauls from Denver and Vegas to medium-smaller markets in the eastern half of the US didn't make it back.

These guys are definitely interesting to watch and just because they try so many unusual / unexpected markets doesn't make their strategy wrong or bad. However it seems like fewer new routes have been sticking. The strategy to route-bomb an airport and see what works is interesting and generates a lot of buzz but if you follow those markets for a few seasons it seems very little that breaks new ground lasts. A few years back Austin (for example) was route-bombed with a few dozen destinations, many of which were new city pairs. A few years later it's pretty much all gone except for the biggest markets where Frontier is the ULCC also-ran in a market with multiple competitors like Vegas, Seattle, Orlando, Atlanta, etc. Lots of route-bombed markets look this way a few years later, some even worse like Jacksonville which is down to PHL and TTN. Of course they are in business to make money, not to amuse a.net nor to give Omaha hope they could support an Austin flight. But it does make you wonder if the number of good opportunities which will work for them are shrinking.
 
FlyPNS1
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:07 pm

knope2001 wrote:
Of course they are in business to make money, not to amuse a.net nor to give Omaha hope they could support an Austin flight. But it does make you wonder if the number of good opportunities which will work for them are shrinking.


Yeah, I think eventually F9 is going to run out of city pairs to try and then might get themselves into trouble. I understand they don't want to tolerate a lot of losses, but that might mean few places to grow...particularly if the economy takes a downturn at some point in the future.

Granted, in some cases, they could slowly expand existing routes as a method of growth. For example, with a small market like PNS, instead of adding new p2p routes, just focus on maybe adding a 4th weekly PNS-DEN.
 
jplatts
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:08 pm

knope2001 wrote:
It appears Mobile and Tyler both end in late April, and Lafayette's hope to be restored in spring 2020 (after being "suspended" in November) is not happening. Quite a few long-hauls from Denver and Vegas to medium-smaller markets in the eastern half of the US didn't make it back.

These guys are definitely interesting to watch and just because they try so many unusual / unexpected markets doesn't make their strategy wrong or bad. However it seems like fewer new routes have been sticking. The strategy to route-bomb an airport and see what works is interesting and generates a lot of buzz but if you follow those markets for a few seasons it seems very little that breaks new ground lasts. A few years back Austin (for example) was route-bombed with a few dozen destinations, many of which were new city pairs. A few years later it's pretty much all gone except for the biggest markets where Frontier is the ULCC also-ran in a market with multiple competitors like Vegas, Seattle, Orlando, Atlanta, etc. Lots of route-bombed markets look this way a few years later, some even worse like Jacksonville which is down to PHL and TTN. Of course they are in business to make money, not to amuse a.net nor to give Omaha hope they could support an Austin flight. But it does make you wonder if the number of good opportunities which will work for them are shrinking.


F9 can likely make DEN-RIC nonstop service work with RIC being the largest market in the contiguous U.S. that doesn't currently have nonstop LCC service to DEN. F9 will also still have less-than-daily seasonal nonstop service in Summer 2020 to a few East Coast markets smaller than RIC such as ALB, BTV, CHS, PWM, and SYR. In addition, DEN-RIC also had higher PDEW's than DEN-BTV, DEN-PWM, or DEN-SYR in Q2 2019.

F9 will probably announce DEN-RIC nonstop service soon with RIC being one of the few remaining markets not currently served by F9 that can likely support F9 service. DEN-RIC nonstop service on F9 would also likely stick on at least a seasonal basis unlike some of the dartboard adds by F9 out of DEN to markets much smaller than RIC.
 
Buddys747
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:33 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:55 pm

jplatts wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
It appears Mobile and Tyler both end in late April, and Lafayette's hope to be restored in spring 2020 (after being "suspended" in November) is not happening. Quite a few long-hauls from Denver and Vegas to medium-smaller markets in the eastern half of the US didn't make it back.

These guys are definitely interesting to watch and just because they try so many unusual / unexpected markets doesn't make their strategy wrong or bad. However it seems like fewer new routes have been sticking. The strategy to route-bomb an airport and see what works is interesting and generates a lot of buzz but if you follow those markets for a few seasons it seems very little that breaks new ground lasts. A few years back Austin (for example) was route-bombed with a few dozen destinations, many of which were new city pairs. A few years later it's pretty much all gone except for the biggest markets where Frontier is the ULCC also-ran in a market with multiple competitors like Vegas, Seattle, Orlando, Atlanta, etc. Lots of route-bombed markets look this way a few years later, some even worse like Jacksonville which is down to PHL and TTN. Of course they are in business to make money, not to amuse a.net nor to give Omaha hope they could support an Austin flight. But it does make you wonder if the number of good opportunities which will work for them are shrinking.


F9 can likely make DEN-RIC nonstop service work with RIC being the largest market in the contiguous U.S. that doesn't currently have nonstop LCC service to DEN. F9 will also still have less-than-daily seasonal nonstop service in Summer 2020 to a few East Coast markets smaller than RIC such as ALB, BTV, CHS, PWM, and SYR. In addition, DEN-RIC also had higher PDEW's than DEN-BTV, DEN-PWM, or DEN-SYR in Q2 2019.

F9 will probably announce DEN-RIC nonstop service soon with RIC being one of the few remaining markets not currently served by F9 that can likely support F9 service. DEN-RIC nonstop service on F9 would also likely stick on at least a seasonal basis unlike some of the dartboard adds by F9 out of DEN to markets much smaller than RIC.

I’m sure they could support it, but I thought the same about DEN-MDT, and yet it’s getting cut. I think a lot will depend on the day of the week and timing. Flights at another close by airport (thinking ORF or IAD) are available non-stop or in ORF with WN quite a few easy one-stops.
It just seems that they are getting all these new planes and just starting and stopping routes on a whim. I guess they are making money but eventually it will come back to haunt them as when they come back around for the third or fourth time there reputation is shot at that point... done rant.
 
pmanni1
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:13 pm

Seems like they need to focus on leisure routes. So many of these odd routes like CMH-RDU, SAT-IAD, PHL-OMA were doomed before they ever started.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:34 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Seems like they need to focus on leisure routes. So many of these odd routes like CMH-RDU, SAT-IAD, PHL-OMA were doomed before they ever started.


Exactly. DL is 2x daily on CMH-RDU, you’re not luring those business travelers to a twice weekly seasonal on F9. I think F9 is really struggling for a strategy at CMH. After declaring they were here for good this time, NK came into town, put real resources in to advertising, and has been anecdotally far more successful thus far competing with WN on leisure routes. The only thing F9 has been able to maintain at CMH are less than daily DEN and MCO, both up against at least two other carriers who offer daily flights. NK meanwhile has three year round and an additional four seasonal destinations.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1501
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:43 pm

Buddys747 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
It appears Mobile and Tyler both end in late April, and Lafayette's hope to be restored in spring 2020 (after being "suspended" in November) is not happening. Quite a few long-hauls from Denver and Vegas to medium-smaller markets in the eastern half of the US didn't make it back.

These guys are definitely interesting to watch and just because they try so many unusual / unexpected markets doesn't make their strategy wrong or bad. However it seems like fewer new routes have been sticking. The strategy to route-bomb an airport and see what works is interesting and generates a lot of buzz but if you follow those markets for a few seasons it seems very little that breaks new ground lasts. A few years back Austin (for example) was route-bombed with a few dozen destinations, many of which were new city pairs. A few years later it's pretty much all gone except for the biggest markets where Frontier is the ULCC also-ran in a market with multiple competitors like Vegas, Seattle, Orlando, Atlanta, etc. Lots of route-bombed markets look this way a few years later, some even worse like Jacksonville which is down to PHL and TTN. Of course they are in business to make money, not to amuse a.net nor to give Omaha hope they could support an Austin flight. But it does make you wonder if the number of good opportunities which will work for them are shrinking.


F9 can likely make DEN-RIC nonstop service work with RIC being the largest market in the contiguous U.S. that doesn't currently have nonstop LCC service to DEN. F9 will also still have less-than-daily seasonal nonstop service in Summer 2020 to a few East Coast markets smaller than RIC such as ALB, BTV, CHS, PWM, and SYR. In addition, DEN-RIC also had higher PDEW's than DEN-BTV, DEN-PWM, or DEN-SYR in Q2 2019.

F9 will probably announce DEN-RIC nonstop service soon with RIC being one of the few remaining markets not currently served by F9 that can likely support F9 service. DEN-RIC nonstop service on F9 would also likely stick on at least a seasonal basis unlike some of the dartboard adds by F9 out of DEN to markets much smaller than RIC.

I’m sure they could support it, but I thought the same about DEN-MDT, and yet it’s getting cut. I think a lot will depend on the day of the week and timing. Flights at another close by airport (thinking ORF or IAD) are available non-stop or in ORF with WN quite a few easy one-stops.
It just seems that they are getting all these new planes and just starting and stopping routes on a whim. I guess they are making money but eventually it will come back to haunt them as when they come back around for the third or fourth time there reputation is shot at that point... done rant.


"Supposedly" MEM/LAS had decent load factors, they cut it but kept flying MEM/PHL. That was a Headscratcher. Then I see Allegiant going nearly daily this summer on MEM/LAS. Maybe they though WN was going to jump on like they did Dallas but The Max happened after they cut it. Now, after two summers. It looks like MEM/PHL is gone. WN has upped MEM/BWI a bit, maybe that had something to it.

I noticed the connection options are way down, looks like tey aren't bothering with the more absurd layovers.
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:06 pm

I noticed when they start up BOI-DEN again in May , it will be 3x/week instead of 2x/week the last two summers. Not sure how good that will do versus 3x/day from WN and 6x/day from UA. At least F9 timing is a bit better. Dep BOI around 10am and not 8-9 pm like before. Of course, an early AM dep from DEN not too sure will be a success.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
PVD757
Posts: 3285
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:40 pm

knope2001 wrote:
Here are summer 2019 markets not for sale in summer 2020 -- all stations with 4 or more missing markets

Denver:
IAD JAX LFT MDT PVD SAV TYR LGA BFM BHM BKG

Raleigh
CMH CVG JAX MKE MSY PBI PVD SAN TPA

Austin
DTW MSP MSY ONT SLC CVG SNA

Cincinnati
AUS JAX LGA PHL RDU SFO PHX

Philadelphia
PNS MCI MEM MSN OMA MKE CVG

Chicago:
BFM JAX BKG HRL PNS RSW SYR

Orlando
BHM BMI LFT PSM SAN TUL

Las Vegas
GEG GSP IAD JAX MSN ORF

Jacksonville
LAS ORD DEN RDU CVG

San Antonio
COS IAD MSY ONT SAN

San Diego
CLE SAT RDU MCO

Colorado Springs
ATL MSP IAD SAT

Washington Dulles
DEN COS LAS SAT

Cities with no summer 2020 flights currently showing
Mobile BFM
Birmingham PHM
Branson BKG
Layfayette LFT
Tyler TYR

On occasion I've seen Frontier bring back something which was missing from an initial schedule rollout but it's a solid bet most if not all of these will not fly this summer. Beyond these there are a few dozen additional drops not hitting the list such as CLE-SRQ because neither city had 4+ dropped routes.

When Frontier's inevitable flock of new city pairs is rolled out in the next weeks and someone says "how can they add all these markets", this is a big part of it.


I’m holding out hope that PVD doesn’t lose 3 of 4 markets. Going from 14 weekly departures to 3 when loads were all in the 90% range seems pretty rough.

I also find it odd that only “discount Den” fares are available on the 3 weekly MCO flights and nothing from the F9 update made it into the OAG yet.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3557
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:52 pm

They just need to stick with routes for more than one season. If you run a route and the first year it gets 80% or higher (or lets even say 75%) give it a 2nd year. It takes awhile for people to learn about routes and for them to mature. Just switching year to year doesn't get any loyalty. It is apparent when Frontier drops a route another low cost picks it up and then they run it for a few years and do well on it. That could have been F9 if they would have just let it run for a couple years instead of cutting it after one.
 
heretothere
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:50 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:37 pm

heretothere wrote:
When F9 extends their schedule, they exclusively sell discount den fares for a few weeks. If a route doesn’t have discount den fares it won’t show up. Why some routes don’t have any, I don’t know...


Bump...

Better to hold off on the analysis until they’re selling regular fares.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3285
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:42 pm

heretothere wrote:
heretothere wrote:
When F9 extends their schedule, they exclusively sell discount den fares for a few weeks. If a route doesn’t have discount den fares it won’t show up. Why some routes don’t have any, I don’t know...


Bump...

Better to hold off on the analysis until they’re selling regular fares.


Hoping this is the case since, as of right now, PVD’s F9 service has been slashed to almost nothing.

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