Should UA start some nonhub - tourist island flights?

gunnerman wrote:

I have read that the Barbados PM Mia Mottley instructed the Director of Civil Aviation to have this aircraft registered despite objection from the DCA which has no resources to provide oversight for this aircraft. This was done and the registration was 8P-ERI. It's a mystery who had the clout to get this done.

I now understand their lone Saab 340 has also been registered in BGI. Not sure what their plan is, but they're not going to get very far under BGI regulations.

HP69 wrote:

Should UA start some nonhub - tourist island flights?

I highly doubt it. UA already has an aircraft shortage at the moment due to the MAX situation, so they aren't exactly in a position where the they add a bunch of flights. Plus, I'd say if anyone would do those types of flights, it'd probably be some ULCCs like G4, F9, and NK. UA just isn't in a position to be adding a lot of new mainline flights at the moment.

I wonder what Caribbean destination he proposes. Most from the DR are light and best served by small carriers like Sky High, Air Century and Inter Caribbean.

I have noted a tendency for some Dominican elites to exaggerate the importance of DR within the context of the rest of the Caribbean. It isnt important aside from the fact that Dominicans have fled to many of these islands and so some small VFR opportunities have arisen. DR is integrated into PR and Haiti and that is it.

gunnerman wrote:

'Flycana has identified a number of US destinations with sizeable Dominican communities which currently lack nonstop services'
Don't be shy, name them. And US carriers fly to SDQ from JFK, EWR, BOS, PHL, CLT, MIA, MCO, FLL and ATL, so what's missing?

From Flycana's website:

From the map appears places of "interest" in the US are: BOS, EWR/JFK, PHL, BWI, IAD, ORD, ATL, MCO, TPA, FLL/MIA, MSY, IAH, DEN, SAN, and ELP.

If flycana is to survive it's network map needs to remain what it is - a map.

Looks like BGI, GEO, CAY, POS and BDA are also on this map

If FlyCana takes off it most probably will fly to SJU, MIA and maybe NYC. At that point we will see it they make it past a year. Aeromar. Air Santo Domingo, PAWA, Lan Dominicana all had lofty ambitions as well. It is very hard to take this airline seriously with that proposed route map.SDQ-ELP, GEO, etc, really?


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chepos wrote:

If FlyCana takes off it most probably will fly to SJU, MIA and maybe NYC. At that point we will see it they make it past a year. Aeromar. Air Santo Domingo, PAWA, Lan Dominicana all had lofty ambitions as well. It is very hard to take this airline seriously with that proposed route map.SDQ-ELP, GEO, etc, really?


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Yes core VFR routes are best. Many Dominicans might be inclined to support a national carrier if they don't provide the crappy service that PAWA did (see Tripadvisor). I see SJU, MIA, JFK and a few other US cities. This summer there are over 40 daily flights between the DR and the NY area so JFK might be even more important that MIA. Maybe MAD given the large Dominican population there.

A few major Latin cities as it might be easier to snatch leisure travel from the mainly legacy carriers in those markets. I don't know if Latin leisure travel is as vertically integrated as that out of Europe/Canada. The Euros use their own tour carriers given the high vertical integration with their leisure travel so Flycana can forget about that unless they offer really knock down rates.

I guess another key will be where do people who live in the DR travel to. The DR is large enough to generate its own outbound travel, not just relying on inbound leisure or VFR travel.

But I just love all of those Mexican cities though. Shows great imagination. I think that someone thinks that SDQ is PTY and they can create a new COPA.

These Dominican elites over estimate the importance of the DR.

I'm on Flight Aware and I see BW has a flight on its way to JFK from St. Vincent? How long has this flight been operating? Does anyone know of its performance?

maverick4002 wrote:

I'm on Flight Aware and I see BW has a flight on its way to JFK from St. Vincent? How long has this flight been operating? Does anyone know of its performance?

Since March 14, 2018. It fluctuates between once and twice a week depending on the time of the year. No idea on the route performance.

B6 will increase JFK-ANU to 5x weekly, up from 3x weekly.

https://www.caribjournal.com/2019/08/19 ... p-flights/

Puerto Rico wants to transform its international airports into centrally located hubs for air passengers and cargo flowing between Europe and Latin America
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-puerto-rico-advances-effort-to-establish-c-460359/

SJU never recovered from AA's dehubbing (which had peaked in 2001 with 16 mainland destinations and seven Caribbean) and the complete withdrawal of American Eagle in March 2013 after 27 years of operation.

caribny wrote:

chepos wrote:

If FlyCana takes off it most probably will fly to SJU, MIA and maybe NYC. At that point we will see it they make it past a year. Aeromar. Air Santo Domingo, PAWA, Lan Dominicana all had lofty ambitions as well. It is very hard to take this airline seriously with that proposed route map.SDQ-ELP, GEO, etc, really?


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Yes core VFR routes are best. Many Dominicans might be inclined to support a national carrier if they don't provide the crappy service that PAWA did (see Tripadvisor). I see SJU, MIA, JFK and a few other US cities. This summer there are over 40 daily flights between the DR and the NY area so JFK might be even more important that MIA. Maybe MAD given the large Dominican population there.

A few major Latin cities as it might be easier to snatch leisure travel from the mainly legacy carriers in those markets. I don't know if Latin leisure travel is as vertically integrated as that out of Europe/Canada. The Euros use their own tour carriers given the high vertical integration with their leisure travel so Flycana can forget about that unless they offer really knock down rates.

I guess another key will be where do people who live in the DR travel to. The DR is large enough to generate its own outbound travel, not just relying on inbound leisure or VFR travel.

But I just love all of those Mexican cities though. Shows great imagination. I think that someone thinks that SDQ is PTY and they can create a new COPA.

These Dominican elites over estimate the importance of the DR.

he problem is with my DR too much taxes, around 138 or more the government is too corrupted, they wanna fly for free so no national airlines will survive they have to charge similar to that the big boys charge but they can't provide the same service and there is no tax break to local airlines, i hear from a source that worked for aerodom that b6, aa, ua, copa and other don't pay them for a whole year and they let them operate, PAWA didn't pay for 3 months and it was gone, i don't think flycana wil make it unless govement changes

CAL will start KIN-GCM Oct 29th
Caribbean Airlines resumes Kingston – Grand Cayman service from late-Oct 2019
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -oct-2019/

Hearing that so far POS-CUR is done very well.

gunnerman wrote:

Puerto Rico wants to transform its international airports into centrally located hubs for air passengers and cargo flowing between Europe and Latin America
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-puerto-rico-advances-effort-to-establish-c-460359/

SJU never recovered from AA's dehubbing (which had peaked in 2001 with 16 mainland destinations and seven Caribbean) and the complete withdrawal of American Eagle in March 2013 after 27 years of operation.

Ok but which airline is willing to hub there? PR has been in a economic downturn since the early 2000's, I'm not sure what airline will want to hub there again, less so a foreign airline.

HIA350 wrote:

caribny wrote:

chepos wrote:

If FlyCana takes off it most probably will fly to SJU, MIA and maybe NYC. At that point we will see it they make it past a year. Aeromar. Air Santo Domingo, PAWA, Lan Dominicana all had lofty ambitions as well. It is very hard to take this airline seriously with that proposed route map.SDQ-ELP, GEO, etc, really?


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Yes core VFR routes are best. Many Dominicans might be inclined to support a national carrier if they don't provide the crappy service that PAWA did (see Tripadvisor). I see SJU, MIA, JFK and a few other US cities. This summer there are over 40 daily flights between the DR and the NY area so JFK might be even more important that MIA. Maybe MAD given the large Dominican population there.

A few major Latin cities as it might be easier to snatch leisure travel from the mainly legacy carriers in those markets. I don't know if Latin leisure travel is as vertically integrated as that out of Europe/Canada. The Euros use their own tour carriers given the high vertical integration with their leisure travel so Flycana can forget about that unless they offer really knock down rates.

I guess another key will be where do people who live in the DR travel to. The DR is large enough to generate its own outbound travel, not just relying on inbound leisure or VFR travel.

But I just love all of those Mexican cities though. Shows great imagination. I think that someone thinks that SDQ is PTY and they can create a new COPA.

These Dominican elites over estimate the importance of the DR.

he problem is with my DR too much taxes, around 138 or more the government is too corrupted, they wanna fly for free so no national airlines will survive they have to charge similar to that the big boys charge but they can't provide the same service and there is no tax break to local airlines, i hear from a source that worked for aerodom that b6, aa, ua, copa and other don't pay them for a whole year and they let them operate, PAWA didn't pay for 3 months and it was gone, i don't think flycana wil make it unless govement changes

That really interesting, I always wondered why the DR does not have at least 1 national airline, so this might be one of the reasons. SDQ has a large NYC and Florida expat population where at least some flights can make money from local ventures.

gunnerman wrote:

Puerto Rico wants to transform its international airports into centrally located hubs for air passengers and cargo flowing between Europe and Latin America
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-puerto-rico-advances-effort-to-establish-c-460359/

SJU never recovered from AA's dehubbing (which had peaked in 2001 with 16 mainland destinations and seven Caribbean) and the complete withdrawal of American Eagle in March 2013 after 27 years of operation.

Someone in SJU is smoking something pretty strong if they think this will become a reality. Why would airlines stop in SJU in between Europe/Latin America when they can just fly to those places nonstop? Of the larger Spanish Caribbean countries (PR, DR, Cuba), Puerto Rico has the least traffic to Europe and the least to Latin America. This makes entirely no sense.

caribbean484 wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

Puerto Rico wants to transform its international airports into centrally located hubs for air passengers and cargo flowing between Europe and Latin America
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-puerto-rico-advances-effort-to-establish-c-460359/

SJU never recovered from AA's dehubbing (which had peaked in 2001 with 16 mainland destinations and seven Caribbean) and the complete withdrawal of American Eagle in March 2013 after 27 years of operation.

Ok but which airline is willing to hub there? PR has been in a economic downturn since the early 2000's, I'm not sure what airline will want to hub there again, less so a foreign airline.

HIA350 wrote:

caribny wrote:

Yes core VFR routes are best. Many Dominicans might be inclined to support a national carrier if they don't provide the crappy service that PAWA did (see Tripadvisor). I see SJU, MIA, JFK and a few other US cities. This summer there are over 40 daily flights between the DR and the NY area so JFK might be even more important that MIA. Maybe MAD given the large Dominican population there.

A few major Latin cities as it might be easier to snatch leisure travel from the mainly legacy carriers in those markets. I don't know if Latin leisure travel is as vertically integrated as that out of Europe/Canada. The Euros use their own tour carriers given the high vertical integration with their leisure travel so Flycana can forget about that unless they offer really knock down rates.

I guess another key will be where do people who live in the DR travel to. The DR is large enough to generate its own outbound travel, not just relying on inbound leisure or VFR travel.

But I just love all of those Mexican cities though. Shows great imagination. I think that someone thinks that SDQ is PTY and they can create a new COPA.

These Dominican elites over estimate the importance of the DR.

he problem is with my DR too much taxes, around 138 or more the government is too corrupted, they wanna fly for free so no national airlines will survive they have to charge similar to that the big boys charge but they can't provide the same service and there is no tax break to local airlines, i hear from a source that worked for aerodom that b6, aa, ua, copa and other don't pay them for a whole year and they let them operate, PAWA didn't pay for 3 months and it was gone, i don't think flycana wil make it unless govement changes

That really interesting, I always wondered why the DR does not have at least 1 national airline, so this might be one of the reasons. SDQ has a large NYC and Florida expat population where at least some flights can make money from local ventures.

The problem with a DR national airline is a similar one to a Jamaican national airline. They are both relatively close geographically to the US so it's not a major time investment for US airlines to schedule flights there. For the tourism destinations (PUJ, MBJ) the overwhelming majority of passengers are US originating leisure travelers so US airlines have a significant structural advantage there. For the VFR destinations (SDQ, STI, KIN), the largest VFR markets (NYC, So. Fla, etc.) also happen to be where the major US airlines have their hubs. They can easily fill the demand for those markets from said hubs. Both islands have outbound traffic demand that is very US-centric and is also centered around those US hub destinations. As for KIN, there is some regional demand that could be filled by a local carrier but for SDQ, their primary regional destination happens to be SJU (a US Commonwealth) which therefore has all the same structural disadvantages that the mainland US has for a local carrier.

Is there even a need for a DR national airline ? The country is pretty well covered with airlift it's hard for a local carrier to compete same goes for Jamaica.

The case of Malév, the flag carrier of Hungary from 1946 until its demise in 2012, is instructive. When it failed with debts of US$270.5m BUD was badly hit but recovered 95 percent of capacity within eight months from foreign carriers. Privately-owned Wizz Air also grew rapidly after 2012. So, you don't need a national carrier which too often soaks up taxpayer money and distorts the market.

Brickell305 wrote:

Someone in SJU is smoking something pretty strong if they think this will become a reality. Why would airlines stop in SJU in between Europe/Latin America when they can just fly to those places nonstop? Of the larger Spanish Caribbean countries (PR, DR, Cuba), Puerto Rico has the least traffic to Europe and the least to Latin America. This makes entirely no sense.

I wonder when someone in SJU will learn that people prefer to move passengers and cargo in a straight line instead of through a hub. The latter only is needed when traffic between 2 points doesnt justify direct service.

SJU needs to reconcile itself that it is an O&D market with some hub activity to the US/BVI and a few smaller islands like SBH and AXA. Why will someone traveling between Colombia and Spain operate via SJU?

baje427 wrote:

Is there even a need for a DR national airline ? The country is pretty well covered with airlift it's hard for a local carrier to compete same goes for Jamaica.

DR doesnt have to have a national carrier however there is nothing wrong if a private carrier starts operations. The market is large enough. That is if the market wants it The fantasy will be when folks think that such a carrier can compete into the leisure market.

Given that these markets are well served no need for a state owned carrier. I will not suggest that KX doesnt serve a need for GCM. Its a smaller market so can be overlooked as GCM discovered after Hugo hit when the majors pulled out.

BA to increase UVF from 7 to 9 weekly, MCO and LAS to be reduced to facilitate this. http://www.loopslu.com/content/british- ... t-st-lucia
United to launch EWR/CUR route.
https://www.caribjournal.com/2019/08/22 ... s-nonstop/

Zidane wrote:

BA to increase UVF from 7 to 9 weekly, MCO and LAS to be reduced to facilitate this. http://www.loopslu.com/content/british- ... t-st-lucia

Are any of the current 7 UVF flights terminating in UVF or do they all continue on to somewhere else?
I believe 4 of the flights continue to POS. Where do the other 3 continue to? Any idea if the additional 2 will continue also?
Cheers,
AA1818

aa1818 wrote:

Zidane wrote:

BA to increase UVF from 7 to 9 weekly, MCO and LAS to be reduced to facilitate this. http://www.loopslu.com/content/british- ... t-st-lucia

Are any of the current 7 UVF flights terminating in UVF or do they all continue on to somewhere else?
I believe 4 of the flights continue to POS. Where do the other 3 continue to? Any idea if the additional 2 will continue also?
Cheers,
AA1818

They all continue elsewhere. Yes, 4 continue to POS and 3 to GND. All with cabotage rights. No specifics if these new additions will terminate at UVF, news is still fresh.

The year-round schedule is maintained; five to POS, two to GND. The extra flights to UVF start on Saturday 4 July and Tuesday 7 July and are terminators. BTW, there is no First cabin on the extra flights.

Zidane wrote:

BA to increase UVF from 7 to 9 weekly, MCO and LAS to be reduced to facilitate this. http://www.loopslu.com/content/british- ... t-st-lucia
United to launch EWR/CUR route.
https://www.caribjournal.com/2019/08/22 ... s-nonstop/

Where does it say that BA will increase UVF by reducing MCO and LAS? Can't find this anywhere in the article. I find this also very hard to believe. MCO and LAS are way more import to BA than any island.

Good news for us that we are getting UA back.

A388

AA is adding seasonal weekly BOS-GCM.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -jan-2020/

As A388 pointed out, UA is starting weekly EWR-CUR.

A388 wrote:

Zidane wrote:

BA to increase UVF from 7 to 9 weekly, MCO and LAS to be reduced to facilitate this. http://www.loopslu.com/content/british- ... t-st-lucia
United to launch EWR/CUR route.
https://www.caribjournal.com/2019/08/22 ... s-nonstop/

Where does it say that BA will increase UVF by reducing MCO and LAS? Can't find this anywhere in the article. I find this also very hard to believe. MCO and LAS are way more import to BA than any island.

Good news for us that we are getting UA back.

A388

While I definitely don’t doubt the importance of both destinations for BA, they face significantly less competition to the Caribbean and unlike LAS (specifically out of LGW. They also serve it from LHR) and MCO, they probably consistently perform well in premium cabins to UVF.

gunnerman wrote:

Puerto Rico wants to transform its international airports into centrally located hubs for air passengers and cargo flowing between Europe and Latin America
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-puerto-rico-advances-effort-to-establish-c-460359/

SJU never recovered from AA's dehubbing (which had peaked in 2001 with 16 mainland destinations and seven Caribbean) and the complete withdrawal of American Eagle in March 2013 after 27 years of operation.

That ship sailed, PR is not going to be a hub for anyone. SJU is lucky to have the amount of flights it has. Some of my fellow Ricans are under the very incorrect notion we are the belly button of the world. The economy is depressed, the population is aging, a massive brain drain and a decreasing population. Not a recipe for anyone to set up shop and rebuild the SJU hub.


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chepos wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

Puerto Rico wants to transform its international airports into centrally located hubs for air passengers and cargo flowing between Europe and Latin America
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-puerto-rico-advances-effort-to-establish-c-460359/

SJU never recovered from AA's dehubbing (which had peaked in 2001 with 16 mainland destinations and seven Caribbean) and the complete withdrawal of American Eagle in March 2013 after 27 years of operation.

That ship sailed, PR is not going to be a hub for anyone. SJU is lucky to have the amount of flights it has. Some of my fellow Ricans are under the very incorrect notion we are the belly button of the world. The economy is depressed, the population is aging, a massive brain drain and a decreasing population. Not a recipe for anyone to set up shop and rebuild the SJU hub.

1st SJU must get US Homeland Security to allow TWOV transfers at SJU.
The only US airport to still have it is ANC and passenger airlines hardy use it, I believe not even GUM has it.
Good luck with that.

As for international flights, other than regional flights from SJU to the nearest islands (D.R., Turk & Caicos, B.V.I, SXM/ANU and others) plus perhaps CCS/MAR, AUA/CUR, POS (!?) and CM's hub PTY thrice daily, SJU should consider itself lucky to get a MAD (or Canary Islands, if within narrow-body range) flight and some weekly European even Canadian seasonal comercial or charter tied to cruise holidays programmes.

2travel2know2 wrote:

chepos wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

Puerto Rico wants to transform its international airports into centrally located hubs for air passengers and cargo flowing between Europe and Latin America
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-puerto-rico-advances-effort-to-establish-c-460359/

SJU never recovered from AA's dehubbing (which had peaked in 2001 with 16 mainland destinations and seven Caribbean) and the complete withdrawal of American Eagle in March 2013 after 27 years of operation.

That ship sailed, PR is not going to be a hub for anyone. SJU is lucky to have the amount of flights it has. Some of my fellow Ricans are under the very incorrect notion we are the belly button of the world. The economy is depressed, the population is aging, a massive brain drain and a decreasing population. Not a recipe for anyone to set up shop and rebuild the SJU hub.

1st SJU must get US Homeland Security to allow TWOV transfers at SJU.
The only US airport to still have it is ANC and passenger airlines hardy use it, I believe not even GUM has it.
Good luck with that.

As for international flights, other than regional flights from SJU to the nearest islands (D.R., Turk & Caicos, B.V.I, SXM/ANU and others) plus perhaps CCS/MAR, AUA/CUR, POS (!?) and CM's hub PTY thrice daily, SJU should consider itself lucky to get a MAD (or Canary Islands, if within narrow-body range) flight and some weekly European even Canadian seasonal comercial or charter tied to cruise holidays programmes.

SJU currently has a BOG flight as well.


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Brickell305 wrote:

caribbean484 wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

Puerto Rico wants to transform its international airports into centrally located hubs for air passengers and cargo flowing between Europe and Latin America
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-puerto-rico-advances-effort-to-establish-c-460359/

SJU never recovered from AA's dehubbing (which had peaked in 2001 with 16 mainland destinations and seven Caribbean) and the complete withdrawal of American Eagle in March 2013 after 27 years of operation.

Ok but which airline is willing to hub there? PR has been in a economic downturn since the early 2000's, I'm not sure what airline will want to hub there again, less so a foreign airline.

HIA350 wrote:

he problem is with my DR too much taxes, around 138 or more the government is too corrupted, they wanna fly for free so no national airlines will survive they have to charge similar to that the big boys charge but they can't provide the same service and there is no tax break to local airlines, i hear from a source that worked for aerodom that b6, aa, ua, copa and other don't pay them for a whole year and they let them operate, PAWA didn't pay for 3 months and it was gone, i don't think flycana wil make it unless govement changes

That really interesting, I always wondered why the DR does not have at least 1 national airline, so this might be one of the reasons. SDQ has a large NYC and Florida expat population where at least some flights can make money from local ventures.

The problem with a DR national airline is a similar one to a Jamaican national airline. They are both relatively close geographically to the US so it's not a major time investment for US airlines to schedule flights there. For the tourism destinations (PUJ, MBJ) the overwhelming majority of passengers are US originating leisure travelers so US airlines have a significant structural advantage there. For the VFR destinations (SDQ, STI, KIN), the largest VFR markets (NYC, So. Fla, etc.) also happen to be where the major US airlines have their hubs. They can easily fill the demand for those markets from said hubs. Both islands have outbound traffic demand that is very US-centric and is also centered around those US hub destinations. As for KIN, there is some regional demand that could be filled by a local carrier but for SDQ, their primary regional destination happens to be SJU (a US Commonwealth) which therefore has all the same structural disadvantages that the mainland US has for a local carrier.

I may not have been articulate with this; I don't mean government run airline, rather private investors in DR starting an airline and capturing a market that is relatively large. Mostly servicing the VFR community, but the problem seem to be these grandiose expansion plans rather than slow and methodological. The problem with some of these guys is they want to grow way to quick or poor business planning and analysis; like Insel, Redjet etc.

Zidane wrote:

BA to increase UVF from 7 to 9 weekly, MCO and LAS to be reduced to facilitate this. http://www.loopslu.com/content/british- ... t-st-lucia
United to launch EWR/CUR route.
https://www.caribjournal.com/2019/08/22 ... s-nonstop/

Makes sense with VS suspending service next year. Nice addition for CUR with the UA flight I wonder if B6 didn't start the EWR-BGI service if they would have returned to BGI.

BA used to fly LGW-SJU-SJC and LGW-ANU-SJU, both weekly and both terminated. The market isn't there.

BA increasing UVF to 9 weekly is not surprising and appeared to be the most logical outcome of the VS situation there. As mentioned, their present daily flights continue to POS 5 days per week (Mon, Tue, Thur, Fri and Sun) and to GND on Wed and Sat. BA offer First on most of these flights and this aspect may have tipped the balance towards UVF vs MCO and LAS. With regard to those two US markets, LAS also has LHR flights featuring First and increasingly it appears as if BA have upsold those services, which also allow for easy connections to other parts of their network. Out of LGW VS compete with them to LAS. MCO is perhaps VS' strongest LGW route so BA may have found it prudent to step back a little, especially given the weakness of the UK travel market at the moment. What one could probably see BA do is, if they shift another First-equipped 777 to LGW, they could have daily First to UVF and, with the frames freed from the reduced LAS and MCO services, maintain and increase seats in the other service classes to UVF - an aim assisted by the two extra flights being dedicated to St Lucia.

Well done to CUR on the new UA service to EWR, may it be a great success.

Trintocan.

2travel2know2 wrote:

As for international flights, other than regional flights from SJU to the nearest islands (D.R., Turk & Caicos, B.V.I, SXM/ANU and others) plus perhaps CCS/MAR, AUA/CUR, POS (!?) and CM's hub PTY thrice daily, SJU should consider itself lucky to get a MAD (or Canary Islands, if within narrow-body range) flight and some weekly European even Canadian seasonal comercial or charter tied to cruise holidays programmes.

The only heavy traffic between SJU and the rest of the Caribbean is to the DR and the US/BVI. Even the other nearby islands struggle with a daily 34/48 seat. LIAT makes its 3x/w SJU route work by feeding in every country from GEO heading north, so clearly there isnt much. No nonstop service from POS to SJU, and even as BW looks to increase its regional routes SJU isnt being mentioned. They are looking at SDQ and have already added (or will add) HAV, CUR and GCM in recent years.

PR missed its opportunity to be a major commercial hub. Those statehooders always derided any connection between SJU and the rest of the hemisphere so MIA and now PTY have grabbed it. In the late 80s there were plans for SJU to be an alternate hub to MIA and when a statehood focused gov't took over these plans were dropped. Now imagine if SJU had some of what PTY now has, given its dire economic circumstance as various tax incentive policies ended drying up investment?

I keep on thinking that elites in PR remain ignorant of how isolated it is from the rest of the Caribbean. The rest of the Caribbean have forgotten that it exists, that is aside from its closest neighbors, the DR and US/BVI.. And now they turn to South America which needs them even less.

caribny wrote:

I keep on thinking that elites in PR remain ignorant of how isolated it is from the rest of the Caribbean. The rest of the Caribbean have forgotten that it exists, that is aside from its closest neighbors, the DR and US/BVI.. And now they turn to South America which needs them even less.

During the Venezuelan oil-boom years a large number of Puertoricans chose to emigrate to Venezuela and now many of those who did and their children/grandchildren have left Venezuela.
If Puerto Rico ever had a strong link with South America was with Venezuela and now there's no real chance of SJU-CCS, much less SJU-MAR ever happening in soon.
Bear in mind, SJU-CCS was one of AA last SJU hub routes to go.
Also, long before CM PTY hub, Puerto Rico had a very strong link with Panama, The U.S. Canal Zone among other connections, which still going on.

Any news about this incident at Argyle Int'l? Aircraft seem to be a Saab 340.

https://bit.ly/2zpKpCa

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... nded-Range

JetBlue announces JFK-GEO officially. Starts right before Easter holidays.with A321NEO.

Schedule between New York (JFK) and Georgetown (GEO)

Beginning April 2, 2020

JFK - GEO Flight #1965

GEO - JFK Flight #1966

11:55 p.m. – 5:58 a.m. (+1)

7:20 a.m. – 1:09 p.m.

tphuang wrote:

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190910005718/en/JetBlue-Greets-Guyana-Latest-Route-Extended-Range

JetBlue announces JFK-GEO officially. Starts right before Easter holidays.with A321NEO.

Schedule between New York (JFK) and Georgetown (GEO)

Beginning April 2, 2020

JFK - GEO Flight #1965

GEO - JFK Flight #1966

11:55 p.m. – 5:58 a.m. (+1)

7:20 a.m. – 1:09 p.m.

Can only 321neo do this route full? or can the 320 and 321ceo as well?

INFINITI329 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190910005718/en/JetBlue-Greets-Guyana-Latest-Route-Extended-Range

JetBlue announces JFK-GEO officially. Starts right before Easter holidays.with A321NEO.

Schedule between New York (JFK) and Georgetown (GEO)

Beginning April 2, 2020

JFK - GEO Flight #1965

GEO - JFK Flight #1966

11:55 p.m. – 5:58 a.m. (+1)

7:20 a.m. – 1:09 p.m.

Can only 321neo do this route full? or can the 320 and 321ceo as well?

I've always heard the reason B6 took soo long to announce this route is the A32xx ceo's range is insufficient for this route. Also, they had to wait until the runway extension works in GEO are completed.

I predict a bloodbath on the JFK-GEO-JFK route next year with CAL, AA and now B6 operating a minimum of 21 - 24 weekly flights. Suspect that BW will reduce to 7 from 10 at a minimum.

Please and thank you. When will TNCM/SXM be able to control aircraft using radar rules?

GEO is on a roll I suspect AC will be next there. BW will really face stiff competition come next year hopefully they have a plan.

baje427 wrote:

GEO is on a roll I suspect AC will be next there. BW will really face stiff competition come next year hopefully they have a plan.

BW's plan for the GEO market has been to raise fares to astronomic levels just as the market gets competitive. B6 will take over this route just as they did JFK KIN. AA will drop out, or BW is in deep trouble. This was one of their most profitable routes because of high fares and yields.

BW has been anticipating this for years. Have no doubt the plans are in place to deal with it!

jmdc861 wrote:

BW has been anticipating this for years. Have no doubt the plans are in place to deal with it!

Then they need to make those plans known to the Guyanese traveling public. This year they have significantly increased fares that were already high. AA jumped in and adopted a high fare strategy so they continued with this.

Now B6 (already well regarded by the Caribbean VFR) will jump in with low fares, new planes and better IFE. I expect AA to bow out as I doubt that they will play airfares games with B6.

BW will have serious market repair to do. They have lost market goodwill I get the impression that the folks at Piarco have adopted a BWIA mentality thinking that GORTT will for ever sustain losses so that they can turn a deaf ear to the traveling public.

Their JFK KIN flights are more than 50% empty outside of the peaks as B6 has expanded and now DL has overtaken them. I forecast similar for their JFK GEO. I know they cannot go back to their previous JFK POS GEO service.

So, we'll have three flights from JFK to GEO:

BW527 at 0125
AA2896 at 1800
B61965 at 2355

Let the battle begin. As a small Caribbean carrier BW will find it hard going against the big boys.