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Ziyulu
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:00 pm

I wish more foreign carriers showed up at DFW. It gets boring seeing American over several terminals.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:46 pm

bob75013 wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
But TRE doesn't run on Sundays and holidays. Then what??

.


He rents a car like most everyone else. Weekend rentals especially can be had for ~$50 all in...
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
LovePrunesAnet
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:04 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:10 pm

have we had a thread for things happening at DAL and DFW combined? This seems like a really bad idea.
 
Brandon757
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:16 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:13 pm

I keep hearing that NK is not doing well in DFW. Is there any truth to this? I noticed they dropped several routes last year.
 
evank516
Posts: 1972
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:49 pm

A220s make their first regular appearance in DFW at the end of the month too.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:01 pm

DFW17L wrote:
jplatts wrote:
DFW17L wrote:
Three rail systems, with a fourth coming, four very large freeways connecting, and located in the center of a large metro...I’m having a hard time finding any other city with with this type of transportation options at their airport.


There are a few other U.S. airports that have multiple rail systems to the airport, including the following:
  • BWI has MARC, Amtrak, and the MTA Light Rail
  • DCA has the WMATA Metro and the VRE
  • ORD has the CTA "L" train and the Metra NCS train
  • MIA has Miami-Dade Transit Metrorail and Tri-Rail
  • EWR has Amtrak and NJ Transit

In Tokyo, (a) HND has the Tokyo Monorail and the Keikyu Airport line, and (b) NRT has the Narita Express, JR Narita Line, Keisei Skyliner, Keisei Main Line, and the Narita Sky Access Line.

In the Osaka/Kobe/Kyoto area, KIX has the Nankai Railway Airport Line and the JR West Kansai Airport Line.

In London, (a) LHR has Heathrow Express, TfL Rail, and the London Underground, (b) LGW has Gatwick Express, Southern, Thameslink, and Great Western Railway, (c) LTN has Thameslink and East Midlands Trains, and (d) STN has Stansted Express and CrossCountry.

As shown in the examples mentioned above, DFW isn't the only airport in the U.S. that have multiple rail systems serving the airport, and there are also other major commercial airports in some major world cities outside of the U.S. that have multiple rail systems serving the airport.

Thanks, jplatts. Do these airports also have multiple freeways servicing them as well? And are they located centrally? I look forward to visiting the Japanese airports someday. FYI, the proposed bullet train between Dallas and Houston will use the Shinkansen technology. https://www.texascentral.com/


As someone living in Dallas, that bullet train is never ever going to happen.
 
mfe777
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:56 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
DFW17L wrote:
jplatts wrote:

There are a few other U.S. airports that have multiple rail systems to the airport, including the following:
  • BWI has MARC, Amtrak, and the MTA Light Rail
  • DCA has the WMATA Metro and the VRE
  • ORD has the CTA "L" train and the Metra NCS train
  • MIA has Miami-Dade Transit Metrorail and Tri-Rail
  • EWR has Amtrak and NJ Transit

In Tokyo, (a) HND has the Tokyo Monorail and the Keikyu Airport line, and (b) NRT has the Narita Express, JR Narita Line, Keisei Skyliner, Keisei Main Line, and the Narita Sky Access Line.

In the Osaka/Kobe/Kyoto area, KIX has the Nankai Railway Airport Line and the JR West Kansai Airport Line.

In London, (a) LHR has Heathrow Express, TfL Rail, and the London Underground, (b) LGW has Gatwick Express, Southern, Thameslink, and Great Western Railway, (c) LTN has Thameslink and East Midlands Trains, and (d) STN has Stansted Express and CrossCountry.

As shown in the examples mentioned above, DFW isn't the only airport in the U.S. that have multiple rail systems serving the airport, and there are also other major commercial airports in some major world cities outside of the U.S. that have multiple rail systems serving the airport.

Thanks, jplatts. Do these airports also have multiple freeways servicing them as well? And are they located centrally? I look forward to visiting the Japanese airports someday. FYI, the proposed bullet train between Dallas and Houston will use the Shinkansen technology. https://www.texascentral.com/


As someone living in Dallas, that bullet train is never ever going to happen.


As someone else living in Dallas (actual Dallas, not very far from where the station will be), the bullet train likely will happen. Things are moving ahead. Private funding is moving along, people are hired and project management structure is being set up. Even the critics have moved from trying to stop it, to trying to have more control over eminent domain proceedings. I'm looking forward to it!
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2594
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:13 pm

mfe777 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
DFW17L wrote:
Thanks, jplatts. Do these airports also have multiple freeways servicing them as well? And are they located centrally? I look forward to visiting the Japanese airports someday. FYI, the proposed bullet train between Dallas and Houston will use the Shinkansen technology. https://www.texascentral.com/


As someone living in Dallas, that bullet train is never ever going to happen.


As someone else living in Dallas (actual Dallas, not very far from where the station will be), the bullet train likely will happen. Things are moving ahead. Private funding is moving along, people are hired and project management structure is being set up. Even the critics have moved from trying to stop it, to trying to have more control over eminent domain proceedings. I'm looking forward to it!


As someone else who also lives in DFW and has family in HOU, I can't wait for that Bullet train to start service.

I-45 between the 2 cities is a nightmare anymore and I'm not paying $350-$400 for a 45 minute plane ride.
I also hope the bullet train expands to a second run from Dallas to Austin- San Antonio :)
 
rainaviation
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:28 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:39 pm

jplatts wrote:
Here are my predictions for adds by domestic carriers other than AA out of DFW:
  • DL bringing back DFW-SEA and DFW-BOS nonstop service
  • B6 adding DFW-JFK nonstop service
  • NK adding DFW-CMH, DFW-IND, and DFW-JAX nonstop service
  • SY adding DFW-PDX nonstop service
  • HA adding DFW-HNL nonstop service in order to defend market share against WN in Hawaii

Are there any gates in Terminal E that are capable of accommodating widebody aircraft, or would HA need to use Terminal D at DFW if it adds service to DFW? If HA starts service out of DFW, HA would need access to a gate that could accommodate widebody aircraft, but HA would not need access to an international arrivals facility at DFW.


Those all seem like very good possibilities for service from DFW.

I am almost positive that SY will add some summer seasonal routes from PDX... DFW would work very well with their aircraft scheduling.
 
DFW17L
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:01 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:

As someone living in Dallas, that bullet train is never ever going to happen.


As someone else living in Dallas (actual Dallas, not very far from where the station will be), the bullet train likely will happen. Things are moving ahead. Private funding is moving along, people are hired and project management structure is being set up. Even the critics have moved from trying to stop it, to trying to have more control over eminent domain proceedings. I'm looking forward to it!


As someone else who also lives in DFW and has family in HOU, I can't wait for that Bullet train to start service.

I-45 between the 2 cities is a nightmare anymore and I'm not paying $350-$400 for a 45 minute plane ride.
I also hope the bullet train expands to a second run from Dallas to Austin- San Antonio :)

It makes one wonder, should HSR service become quite popular, would we see a Lone Store version of a Pusher, or Oshiya, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pusher_(r ... _attendant)? Maybe in Texas they'd say, "Y'all need to to squeeze in before I commence to push".
 
ubeema
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:48 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:03 pm

Herb Kelleher, Southwest Airlines Founder Dies at 87 https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Herb- ... akmobile=o
 
deltaffindfw
Posts: 1499
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:42 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:13 am

TexRail to/from DFW will not open tomorrow as planned - but not directly due to government shutdown.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/transpo ... Hj6idEu7ck
 
vadodara
Posts: 1036
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:55 am

Ziyulu wrote:
I wish more foreign carriers showed up at DFW. It gets boring seeing American over several terminals.


Good chance to see DFW to India non-stop’s either on AA or AI.
 
chidino
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:36 am

mfe777 wrote:
Adding to this, the DART and Texrail stations will be connected by a short, covered walkway. If someone really needed to connect between the two systems, they could easily do this here. It's really a non-issue, as most people will take the TRE double decker trains if they are traveling between Dallas and Fort Worth, which have a more direct route, less stops, and are much quicker in travel time.


But not the TRE from DFW, IMO. Ever take it? I have, and it's... discouraging (and not something to do unless you have time to burn). I waited for the shuttle bus to the rental lot and then boarded another shuttle bus (which runs once every 30 minutes) to the TRE station. And then the trains are once an hour (every 30 min during rush). On top of which, virtually no one at the airport seems to know about it, just as I suspect employees at ORD are uninformed about the Metra commuter rail service there. Low-frequency service, no visible presence, thus no travelers. I'm from out of town and can't judge the effectiveness of TRE connecting the two cities, but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say TRE is not a major transport provider for pax out of DFW. (Employees, maybe.) I've done it several times and, usually, no one even waits for the TRE, just gets picked up at CentrePort, since it's out of the airport property.
 
dfdubflyer
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:01 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:22 am

chidino wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
Adding to this, the DART and Texrail stations will be connected by a short, covered walkway. If someone really needed to connect between the two systems, they could easily do this here. It's really a non-issue, as most people will take the TRE double decker trains if they are traveling between Dallas and Fort Worth, which have a more direct route, less stops, and are much quicker in travel time.


But not the TRE from DFW, IMO. Ever take it? I have, and it's... discouraging (and not something to do unless you have time to burn). I waited for the shuttle bus to the rental lot and then boarded another shuttle bus (which runs once every 30 minutes) to the TRE station. And then the trains are once an hour (every 30 min during rush). On top of which, virtually no one at the airport seems to know about it, just as I suspect employees at ORD are uninformed about the Metra commuter rail service there. Low-frequency service, no visible presence, thus no travelers. I'm from out of town and can't judge the effectiveness of TRE connecting the two cities, but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say TRE is not a major transport provider for pax out of DFW. (Employees, maybe.) I've done it several times and, usually, no one even waits for the TRE, just gets picked up at CentrePort, since it's out of the airport property.


Right, people wouldn’t take it because it doesn’t make sense.

If you’re on the Dallas half of the Metroplex you would take DART to DFW. If you were going from FTW half to DFW (now) you would use TEXrail. If you were going from Dallas to Fort Worth you would use the TRE.
 
tmu101
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:04 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:30 pm

I noticed the other day that one of the northern crossover taxiway bridges (can't remember if it was Yankee or Zulu) was under construction? Reinforcing it for the A380?
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:42 pm

blueflyer wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
Why does it matter? They serve completely different populations.

When I lived in Dallas and took DART to DFW why on earth would it matter to me where people from Fort Worth came into the airport from?


Here's why it matters. I've been talking to a guy from ATL who really wants to fly WN, but needs to get to FT. Worth. On weekdays and Saturdays he can take DART to Union station and switch to TRE to FT. Worth. But TRE doesn't run on Sundays and holidays. Then what??

I run into people out of Tarrant County at Love Field all the time.

No need to go to Union. Green, yellow and TRE connect at Victory, one less stop each way.


It's the Orange Line, not Yellow Line, but the rest of the point is still valid.

Also, Trinity Metro is reportedly taking over the connecting shuttle bus between the TRE Centreport station and DFW Remote South (I think this was a joint operation between DART and DFW) at some point this year. That shuttle was originally slated for elimination if/when TEXRail begins operation (it was supposed to start today, but Trinity Metro couldn't get FRA clearance to operate the line, reportedly due a signal issue during final testing that was discovered late Friday afternoon).
Last edited by ctrabs0114 on Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:43 pm

Brandon757 wrote:
I keep hearing that NK is not doing well in DFW. Is there any truth to this? I noticed they dropped several routes last year.


I know they cut DFW-PIT last year, so maybe they're not gaining traction within the DFW market.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
mfe777
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:59 am

chidino wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
Adding to this, the DART and Texrail stations will be connected by a short, covered walkway. If someone really needed to connect between the two systems, they could easily do this here. It's really a non-issue, as most people will take the TRE double decker trains if they are traveling between Dallas and Fort Worth, which have a more direct route, less stops, and are much quicker in travel time.


But not the TRE from DFW, IMO. Ever take it? I have, and it's... discouraging (and not something to do unless you have time to burn). I waited for the shuttle bus to the rental lot and then boarded another shuttle bus (which runs once every 30 minutes) to the TRE station. And then the trains are once an hour (every 30 min during rush). On top of which, virtually no one at the airport seems to know about it, just as I suspect employees at ORD are uninformed about the Metra commuter rail service there. Low-frequency service, no visible presence, thus no travelers. I'm from out of town and can't judge the effectiveness of TRE connecting the two cities, but I don't think I'm overstepping when I say TRE is not a major transport provider for pax out of DFW. (Employees, maybe.) I've done it several times and, usually, no one even waits for the TRE, just gets picked up at CentrePort, since it's out of the airport property.


TRE is excellent at directly connecting Downtown Dallas and Downtown Ft. Worth but was never meant to be a main source of transit for DFW airport. The shuttle from Centreport is obsolete for virtually all travelers now that Dallas’ and Fort Worth’s transit networks connect directly to the airport. I can see how TRE Centreport Station plus the shuttle could work for employees that live in certain areas of the southern metropolitan area but even then it’s a stretch. The TRE serves a different mission and there’s no need for TRE to connect to DART and TexRail at DFW.
 
jplatts
Topic Author
Posts: 2900
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:58 am

DFW17L wrote:
Do these airports also have multiple freeways servicing them as well? And are they located centrally?


BWI, ORD, MIA, EWR, LHR, and HND have multiple freeways serving the airport.

Of the examples I have given:
  • BWI is located between Washington, DC and Baltimore near the center of the Baltimore/Washington region
  • DCA is located on the Virginia-DC border near the National Mall, Downtown DC, and Old Town Alexandria
  • MIA is located a few miles west of Downtown Miami
  • EWR is in a central location on the New Jersey side of the NYC metro area
  • ORD is located on the west side of Chicago
  • HND is located on the southeast side of the city of Tokyo
  • NRT is located on the northeast side of the Tokyo area
  • KIX is located on the southwest side of the Osaka/Kobe/Kyoto area on an artificial island
  • LTN and STN are located north of London
  • LHR is located on the west side of London
  • LGW is located south of London

DFW is centrally located in the Metroplex in between Dallas and Fort Worth, whereas DAL is located on the northwest side of the city of Dallas. Both DFW and DAL also have multiple freeways serving them.
 
TXRoadMan
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:41 pm

tmu101 wrote:
I noticed the other day that one of the northern crossover taxiway bridges (can't remember if it was Yankee or Zulu) was under construction? Reinforcing it for the A380?

Yankee. Yes, strengthening is one of the stated goals, though I recall reading elsewhere that all four bridges are going to be rehabbed soon. Yankee was the first, and should be done soon. They were pouring concrete last month when I went over the Zulu bridge.
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1607
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:15 pm

We live in Frisco. They need a line that runs along Sam Rayburn Tollway/121 from Mckinney to DFW airport, with a stop or two in each (Frisco/Plano, The Colony, Carrollton) with the total number of stops not exceeding 4 or 5 between McKinney and DFW.

If they did this and I could reach the airport in 20-30 minutes onboard a comfortable, spacious train/metro for a few bucks, we’d do it.
Whatever
 
EvanWSFO
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:22 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:26 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
We live in Frisco. They need a line that runs along Sam Rayburn Tollway/121 from Mckinney to DFW airport, with a stop or two in each (Frisco/Plano, The Colony, Carrollton) with the total number of stops not exceeding 4 or 5 between McKinney and DFW.

If they did this and I could reach the airport in 20-30 minutes onboard a comfortable, spacious train/metro for a few bucks, we’d do it.


Agreed. Getting to DFW from Plano can be a royal pain. DART is mature enough that it can be opening some cross-city routes that don't touch downtown.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1607
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:48 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
We live in Frisco. They need a line that runs along Sam Rayburn Tollway/121 from Mckinney to DFW airport, with a stop or two in each (Frisco/Plano, The Colony, Carrollton) with the total number of stops not exceeding 4 or 5 between McKinney and DFW.

If they did this and I could reach the airport in 20-30 minutes onboard a comfortable, spacious train/metro for a few bucks, we’d do it.


Agreed. Getting to DFW from Plano can be a royal pain. DART is mature enough that it can be opening some cross-city routes that don't touch downtown.


Exactly.

I’d Uber the 2 miles or so from home to SRT/121 for $5-10, then take the train for $5.

It would sure save over the tolls and especially parking at DFW.

With that said, they’d have to also figure out a convenient way to make it work once at the airport. I don’t want to be dropped off at one terminal and then have to bus to another one.
Whatever
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:12 pm

Are some of the jetways going to be moved further apart after the MD-80 retirement?
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:30 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
We live in Frisco. They need a line that runs along Sam Rayburn Tollway/121 from Mckinney to DFW airport, with a stop or two in each (Frisco/Plano, The Colony, Carrollton) with the total number of stops not exceeding 4 or 5 between McKinney and DFW.

If they did this and I could reach the airport in 20-30 minutes onboard a comfortable, spacious train/metro for a few bucks, we’d do it.


DART is developing the Cotton Belt corridor between DFW and Plano via Addison. I know that's nowhere near Frisco or McKinney, but that's as close as rail service would get at this point.

https://www.dart.org/about/expansion/cottonbelt.asp

You also have to keep in mind that, unless Frisco and/or McKinney opt in to DART, there will probably not be rail service to or from those cities.

The closest transit option out there for the SRT/121 corridor is a proposal by the Denton County Transportation Authority to run express buses between McKinney and Lewisville (which is a good start, but pretty useless for DFW travelers). Hopefully, someone at DCTA or NCTCOG has enough foresight to extending that proposed route further down 121 to serve DFW.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
deltaffindfw
Posts: 1499
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:42 am

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:49 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
We live in Frisco. They need a line that runs along Sam Rayburn Tollway/121 from Mckinney to DFW airport, with a stop or two in each (Frisco/Plano, The Colony, Carrollton) with the total number of stops not exceeding 4 or 5 between McKinney and DFW.

If they did this and I could reach the airport in 20-30 minutes onboard a comfortable, spacious train/metro for a few bucks, we’d do it.


DART is developing the Cotton Belt corridor between DFW and Plano via Addison. I know that's nowhere near Frisco or McKinney, but that's as close as rail service would get at this point.

https://www.dart.org/about/expansion/cottonbelt.asp

You also have to keep in mind that, unless Frisco and/or McKinney opt in to DART, there will probably not be rail service to or from those cities.

The closest transit option out there for the SRT/121 corridor is a proposal by the Denton County Transportation Authority to run express buses between McKinney and Lewisville (which is a good start, but pretty useless for DFW travelers). Hopefully, someone at DCTA or NCTCOG has enough foresight to extending that proposed route further down 121 to serve DFW.


DCTA has a long range plan to build a commuter rail service from Celina down to meet the Cotton Belt line in Carrolton. They also want to expand the current A-train to meet the Cotton Belt. See page 7 - https://www.dcta.net/business-center/sh ... nce-report
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1607
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:08 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
We live in Frisco. They need a line that runs along Sam Rayburn Tollway/121 from Mckinney to DFW airport, with a stop or two in each (Frisco/Plano, The Colony, Carrollton) with the total number of stops not exceeding 4 or 5 between McKinney and DFW.

If they did this and I could reach the airport in 20-30 minutes onboard a comfortable, spacious train/metro for a few bucks, we’d do it.


DART is developing the Cotton Belt corridor between DFW and Plano via Addison. I know that's nowhere near Frisco or McKinney, but that's as close as rail service would get at this point.

https://www.dart.org/about/expansion/cottonbelt.asp

You also have to keep in mind that, unless Frisco and/or McKinney opt in to DART, there will probably not be rail service to or from those cities.

The closest transit option out there for the SRT/121 corridor is a proposal by the Denton County Transportation Authority to run express buses between McKinney and Lewisville (which is a good start, but pretty useless for DFW travelers). Hopefully, someone at DCTA or NCTCOG has enough foresight to extending that proposed route further down 121 to serve DFW.


Yep, that would not benefit us. Driving down SRT/121 is generally not very bad. 95% of the time it takes is exactly 30 minutes to go the 28 miles from our home (including about 2 1/2 miles of normal streets it takes to reach 121). So generally speaking, it’s not inconvenient to drive.

There have been 2-3 times where I/we have landed at DFW and had to trudge home in the neighborhood of 4:30 - 6:00 pm and it took 45-55 minutes, so again, not horrible and not often.

The biggest benefit to a convenient, ‘direct’ (as stated in my prior post) is saving the ~$15/day in parking, which is relatively substantial when we are gone for 7-10 days.

All that to say, unless it’s very convenient and follows right along 121, I’m not interested. We aren’t going to get on, go somewhere south and connect to another line, yada yada.

It needs to be a one-train service along the 121 corridor with no more than 4-5 stops.
Whatever
 
bob75013
Posts: 905
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:13 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
We live in Frisco. They need a line that runs along Sam Rayburn Tollway/121 from Mckinney to DFW airport, with a stop or two in each (Frisco/Plano, The Colony, Carrollton) with the total number of stops not exceeding 4 or 5 between McKinney and DFW.

If they did this and I could reach the airport in 20-30 minutes onboard a comfortable, spacious train/metro for a few bucks, we’d do it.


Well, since neither McKinney nor Frisco (The Colony, too?) are part of DART, that isn't going to happen.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:17 pm

bob75013 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
We live in Frisco. They need a line that runs along Sam Rayburn Tollway/121 from Mckinney to DFW airport, with a stop or two in each (Frisco/Plano, The Colony, Carrollton) with the total number of stops not exceeding 4 or 5 between McKinney and DFW.

If they did this and I could reach the airport in 20-30 minutes onboard a comfortable, spacious train/metro for a few bucks, we’d do it.


Well, since neither McKinney nor Frisco (The Colony, too?) are part of DART, that isn't going to happen.


I understand all that. I don’t care if it’s DART or not. I’m simply stating it would be nice to have a comfortable, efficient train service that I previously laid out. I doubt DART falls into my definition of clean, comfortable and efficient anyway.

Just saying that if there were such a service, and there should already be, I’d be interested.
Whatever
 
vadodara
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:29 pm

Could not find a link but have seen some news articles suggesting that some kind of Bus service from Allen to Irving along SRT/121.

Amazed to see Collin Count politicians thinking progressive.
 
deltaffindfw
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:43 pm

I drove by the TexRail DFW North station on E Dallas Ave in Grapevine today. Very nice parking area. Seems like a good place to park and then only pay $2.50 each way to get to the airport. The problem is that TexRail only runs once an hour.
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:46 pm

Image
 
stevend08
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:05 am

deltaffindfw wrote:
I drove by the TexRail DFW North station on E Dallas Ave in Grapevine today. Very nice parking area. Seems like a good place to park and then only pay $2.50 each way to get to the airport. The problem is that TexRail only runs once an hour.


Drove by it too and must add it is a OUTSTANDING spotting location! The planes on final for 18R literally fly right over you.
 
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zululima
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:13 am

stevend08 wrote:
deltaffindfw wrote:
I drove by the TexRail DFW North station on E Dallas Ave in Grapevine today. Very nice parking area. Seems like a good place to park and then only pay $2.50 each way to get to the airport. The problem is that TexRail only runs once an hour.


Drove by it too and must add it is a OUTSTANDING spotting location! The planes on final for 18R literally fly right over you.


I would guess that it's a mostly crap spotting location. They're still somewhat high at that point and there's not much fun in belly-gawking. Some decent shots may be had of 18L arrivals that would be too far from Founders', though. Most land on 18R and there actually is an outstanding location for those already. What we need is a south side spotting park.
I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
 
B1168
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:18 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
Image


This is impressive. Which one will complete earlier, this or the grand 2050 US HSR program?
OK, enough sarcasm. Any serious plan to put them reality? As known DFW is more spread out than other metropolitans, and mass transit behaves less efficiently in lower population density.
 
deltaffindfw
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:48 am

Cotton Belt, D2 and the A-Train extension to the Cotton Belt will probably be the only ones completed in the next 5 years.
 
tmu101
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:34 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
We live in Frisco. They need a line that runs along Sam Rayburn Tollway/121 from Mckinney to DFW airport, with a stop or two in each (Frisco/Plano, The Colony, Carrollton) with the total number of stops not exceeding 4 or 5 between McKinney and DFW.

If they did this and I could reach the airport in 20-30 minutes onboard a comfortable, spacious train/metro for a few bucks, we’d do it.


The new TexRail utilizes the old Cotton Belt tracks from Ft. Worth to Grapevine then spurs off towards DFW. Don't the Cotton Belt tracks continue northeast towards Plano/ Frisco past Grapevine? Seems to me that TexRail could be extended all the way up there and connect to DFW. Not sure how much freight operates on the Cotton Belt though.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:32 am

bob75013 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
We live in Frisco. They need a line that runs along Sam Rayburn Tollway/121 from Mckinney to DFW airport, with a stop or two in each (Frisco/Plano, The Colony, Carrollton) with the total number of stops not exceeding 4 or 5 between McKinney and DFW.

If they did this and I could reach the airport in 20-30 minutes onboard a comfortable, spacious train/metro for a few bucks, we’d do it.


Well, since neither McKinney nor Frisco (The Colony, too?) are part of DART, that isn't going to happen.


McKinney has it's own "urban transit district" (though, that's not saying much), while both Frisco and The Colony are technically part of DCTA's service area (all of The Colony is in Denton County, as is the western half of Frisco). None of those cities could become DART member cities, especially because it requires a sales tax levy - and all three cities are capped at the state limit of 8.25 percent.

There are limited exceptions to the sales tax requirement for membership in DART, DCTA, etc. I believe DART has/had an agreement with a smaller transit district east of the city to operate limited services within their district, in addition to a bus between DART Rail and the city of Mesquite (a non-DART member city).

That having been said, as seen in the map posted upthread, there's no viable rail corridor from northeast to southwest to connect the SRT/121 corridor with DFW Airport. That doesn't exactly make for particularly viable options for Collin or Denton County residents (unless you want to drive to Plano or Addison to connect with the Cotton Belt corridor if - or when - that service ever comes on line).
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:35 am

tmu101 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
We live in Frisco. They need a line that runs along Sam Rayburn Tollway/121 from Mckinney to DFW airport, with a stop or two in each (Frisco/Plano, The Colony, Carrollton) with the total number of stops not exceeding 4 or 5 between McKinney and DFW.

If they did this and I could reach the airport in 20-30 minutes onboard a comfortable, spacious train/metro for a few bucks, we’d do it.


The new TexRail utilizes the old Cotton Belt tracks from Ft. Worth to Grapevine then spurs off towards DFW. Don't the Cotton Belt tracks continue northeast towards Plano/ Frisco past Grapevine? Seems to me that TexRail could be extended all the way up there and connect to DFW. Not sure how much freight operates on the Cotton Belt though.


TEXRail is under the jurisdiction of Trinity Metro (formerly the Fort Worth Transportation Authority), while the Cotton Belt is under the jurisdiction of DART. The Cotton Belt tracks actually are more parallel to the Bush Turnpike (think Carrollton, Addison, Richardson and Plano) than they are to SRT/121. Both TEXRail and DART's Cotton Belt line are slated to use the station at Terminal B.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
7H4
Posts: 28
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:48 pm

WN schedule increase from DAL begins today adding 15 more scheduled flights for a total of 195 daily departures. Hopefully things don't get too rough as they still only have 17.5 gates and instances of flights holding out for gates wasn't exactly rare before the schedule increase.
Any comments/claims/statements are my own and not those of my employer or anyone else.
#RIPHerb
 
jplatts
Topic Author
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:56 pm

7H4 wrote:
WN schedule increase from DAL begins today adding 15 more scheduled flights for a total of 195 daily departures. Hopefully things don't get too rough as they still only have 17.5 gates and instances of flights holding out for gates wasn't exactly rare before the schedule increase.


Here is the gate usage at DAL today:
Gate 1 - 9 departures
Gate 2 - 8 departures
Gate 3 - 10 departures
Gate 4 - 10 departures
Gate 5 - 11 departures
Gate 6 - 12 departures
Gate 7 - 9 departures
Gate 8 - 12 departures
Gate 9 - 14 departures
Gate 10 - 12 departures
Gate 11 - 6 departures (used only by AS)
Gate 12 - 11 departures
Gate 13 - 8 departures (used only by AS)
Gate 14 - 9 departures
Gate 15 - 12 departures (7 WN departures, 5 DL departures)
Gate 16 - 13 departures
Gate 17 - 12 departures
Gate 18 - 11 departures
Gate 19 - 10 departures
Gate 20 - 14 departures

Note: WN is operating fewer than 195 departures today since WN has already cancelled 2 DAL-HOU flights today.
 
Jake1993P
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:09 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Are some of the jetways going to be moved further apart after the MD-80 retirement?


I am also curious about this, as well as mainline coming to the low B gates. Will jetways be removed there or just new lines drawn at the current gates?
 
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william
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:05 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Are some of the jetways going to be moved further apart after the MD-80 retirement?


Back when Terminal C looked like this, yes
Image

but now looks like this

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dalla ... 97.0403352

Looks like only two or three gates need to be redone.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:28 pm

jplatts wrote:
7H4 wrote:
WN schedule increase from DAL begins today adding 15 more scheduled flights for a total of 195 daily departures. Hopefully things don't get too rough as they still only have 17.5 gates and instances of flights holding out for gates wasn't exactly rare before the schedule increase.


Here is the gate usage at DAL today:
Gate 1 - 9 departures
Gate 2 - 8 departures
Gate 3 - 10 departures
Gate 4 - 10 departures
Gate 5 - 11 departures
Gate 6 - 12 departures
Gate 7 - 9 departures
Gate 8 - 12 departures
Gate 9 - 14 departures
Gate 10 - 12 departures
Gate 11 - 6 departures (used only by AS)
Gate 12 - 11 departures
Gate 13 - 8 departures (used only by AS)
Gate 14 - 9 departures
Gate 15 - 12 departures (7 WN departures, 5 DL departures)
Gate 16 - 13 departures
Gate 17 - 12 departures
Gate 18 - 11 departures
Gate 19 - 10 departures
Gate 20 - 14 departures

Note: WN is operating fewer than 195 departures today since WN has already cancelled 2 DAL-HOU flights today.



Thank you for that. Any reason why WN doesn't try to 'balance out' the gate usage a little more? Just curious why they may run 11 - 14 departures for one gate, while only 8 - 9 flights from other gates.

Sincerely,
Whatever
 
bob75013
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:37 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
jplatts wrote:
7H4 wrote:
WN schedule increase from DAL begins today adding 15 more scheduled flights for a total of 195 daily departures. Hopefully things don't get too rough as they still only have 17.5 gates and instances of flights holding out for gates wasn't exactly rare before the schedule increase.


Here is the gate usage at DAL today:
Gate 1 - 9 departures
Gate 2 - 8 departures
Gate 3 - 10 departures
Gate 4 - 10 departures
Gate 5 - 11 departures
Gate 6 - 12 departures
Gate 7 - 9 departures
Gate 8 - 12 departures
Gate 9 - 14 departures
Gate 10 - 12 departures
Gate 11 - 6 departures (used only by AS)
Gate 12 - 11 departures
Gate 13 - 8 departures (used only by AS)
Gate 14 - 9 departures
Gate 15 - 12 departures (7 WN departures, 5 DL departures)
Gate 16 - 13 departures
Gate 17 - 12 departures
Gate 18 - 11 departures
Gate 19 - 10 departures
Gate 20 - 14 departures

Note: WN is operating fewer than 195 departures today since WN has already cancelled 2 DAL-HOU flights today.



Thank you for that. Any reason why WN doesn't try to 'balance out' the gate usage a little more? Just curious why they may run 11 - 14 departures for one gate, while only 8 - 9 flights from other gates.

Sincerely,


My guess is that gates with the higher number of departures use a combination of predominantly 143 seat aircraft and / or flights from closer in locations,(HOU, AUS, LBB , etc where pax would have less checked or carry on luggage. Why? Those situations would allow quicker turns.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:53 am

bob75013 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
jplatts wrote:

Here is the gate usage at DAL today:
Gate 1 - 9 departures
Gate 2 - 8 departures
Gate 3 - 10 departures
Gate 4 - 10 departures
Gate 5 - 11 departures
Gate 6 - 12 departures
Gate 7 - 9 departures
Gate 8 - 12 departures
Gate 9 - 14 departures
Gate 10 - 12 departures
Gate 11 - 6 departures (used only by AS)
Gate 12 - 11 departures
Gate 13 - 8 departures (used only by AS)
Gate 14 - 9 departures
Gate 15 - 12 departures (7 WN departures, 5 DL departures)
Gate 16 - 13 departures
Gate 17 - 12 departures
Gate 18 - 11 departures
Gate 19 - 10 departures
Gate 20 - 14 departures

Note: WN is operating fewer than 195 departures today since WN has already cancelled 2 DAL-HOU flights today.



Thank you for that. Any reason why WN doesn't try to 'balance out' the gate usage a little more? Just curious why they may run 11 - 14 departures for one gate, while only 8 - 9 flights from other gates.

Sincerely,


My guess is that gates with the higher number of departures use a combination of predominantly 143 seat aircraft and / or flights from closer in locations,(HOU, AUS, LBB , etc where pax would have less checked or carry on luggage. Why? Those situations would allow quicker turns.


That’s a very good assessment and not something I had thought of. Would be interesting to know if that’s true, but it’s very plausible.

Thank you for sharing that.
Whatever
 
7H4
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:40 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:


Thank you for that. Any reason why WN doesn't try to 'balance out' the gate usage a little more? Just curious why they may run 11 - 14 departures for one gate, while only 8 - 9 flights from other gates.

Sincerely,


My guess is that gates with the higher number of departures use a combination of predominantly 143 seat aircraft and / or flights from closer in locations,(HOU, AUS, LBB , etc where pax would have less checked or carry on luggage. Why? Those situations would allow quicker turns.


That’s a very good assessment and not something I had thought of. Would be interesting to know if that’s true, but it’s very plausible.

Thank you for sharing that.

Its a combination of that and the timing of arrivals and departures. A gate may only have 8 or 9 turns but they may have a flight or two that have over an hour of ground time.
Any comments/claims/statements are my own and not those of my employer or anyone else.
#RIPHerb
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:03 pm

7H4 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
bob75013 wrote:

My guess is that gates with the higher number of departures use a combination of predominantly 143 seat aircraft and / or flights from closer in locations,(HOU, AUS, LBB , etc where pax would have less checked or carry on luggage. Why? Those situations would allow quicker turns.


That’s a very good assessment and not something I had thought of. Would be interesting to know if that’s true, but it’s very plausible.

Thank you for sharing that.

Its a combination of that and the timing of arrivals and departures. A gate may only have 8 or 9 turns but they may have a flight or two that have over an hour of ground time.



Great info! Your contribution is much appreciated.
Whatever
 
dfw88
Posts: 56
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Re: Dallas/Fort Worth Aviation Thread (DFW/DAL) - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:03 pm

Anyone see this from SY? Looks like new service (presumably seasonal and less than daily) to SKB from DFW. Will American respond with a nonstop or just ignore it and keep funneling pax through MIA?

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1412527#p20989115
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