ROCDLFAN
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:24 pm

BOS-ROC inaugurated today. Flew the ROC-BOS portion and there were a lot of announcements and “thank you’s“ as well as a lot of excitement from the ground crew in ROC, as well as hope this leads to further growth. Just boarded the return to ROC and BOS had balloons as well as JetBlue trivia in the gate house. ROC-BOS portion booked to 89, BOS-ROC 76. Not too bad for the first run. This brings ROC back up to 4 flights per day between BOS and JFK.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
Budgie099
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:38 pm

I hope this is relevant to the Network thread. If JetBlue does fly LHR, what terminal would they fly out of?
 
nine4nine
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:42 pm

Wow whiners out in full effect. We get it. Management at B6 has issues starting from the top. AA has the same issues with Doug Parker. It happens.

But your attitudes and moral have a huge effect on your operations wether you see it or not. You can’t blame the issues solely on management but on yourselves as well. You are part of the problem. If you have a chip on your shoulder with your employer you may not see it, but guaranteed it is shown in your demeanor around your customers or in your work performance. Rather than bitch and moan, why don’t you take pride in your company, be a standout and better yourselves and have a positive attitude. If that’s passed through the rest of the employees you can help tip the scales to a more favorable outlook for B6 and offset what management lacks.

You all have a job, benefits, and health insurance. Take a look at those less fortunate and out looking for jobs and wondering how to pay the next rent payment or grocery tab. If you don’t change your attitudes you may well be joining them soon.

And before any of you blast me, I’ve been in the industry. I’ve been laid off both pre911 and post911 from airlines and lost everything I’ve owned in my life both times. My first lay-off, both my employees and myself saw the writing on the wall and our morale was in the toilet and we didn’t give a shit at that point and that sped things faster to demise. Be grateful for what you have, find ways to make the work situation better, because if you don’t, tomorrow may not have something to offer you.
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88/90 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 Q400 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1531
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:21 pm

Just a bit over a month for the BOS-PSP inaugural flight. I'm on it! :D
 
trueblew
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:13 am

nine4nine wrote:
Wow whiners out in full effect. We get it. Management at B6 has issues starting from the top. AA has the same issues with Doug Parker. It happens.

But your attitudes and moral have a huge effect on your operations wether you see it or not. You can’t blame the issues solely on management but on yourselves as well. You are part of the problem. If you have a chip on your shoulder with your employer you may not see it, but guaranteed it is shown in your demeanor around your customers or in your work performance. Rather than bitch and moan, why don’t you take pride in your company, be a standout and better yourselves and have a positive attitude. If that’s passed through the rest of the employees you can help tip the scales to a more favorable outlook for B6 and offset what management lacks.

You all have a job, benefits, and health insurance. Take a look at those less fortunate and out looking for jobs and wondering how to pay the next rent payment or grocery tab. If you don’t change your attitudes you may well be joining them soon.

And before any of you blast me, I’ve been in the industry. I’ve been laid off both pre911 and post911 from airlines and lost everything I’ve owned in my life both times. My first lay-off, both my employees and myself saw the writing on the wall and our morale was in the toilet and we didn’t give a shit at that point and that sped things faster to demise. Be grateful for what you have, find ways to make the work situation better, because if you don’t, tomorrow may not have something to offer you.


Johanna, is that you? Yes, B6 employees should make up for management failures, profit sharing cuts, and a hostile work environment with more smiles and a great attitude!!! Just thrilled to have a job in the era of record low unemployment!
 
TheLunchbox
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:19 am

 
6YBLUE
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:45 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:09 am

fastmover wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Ok. Enough with the Bull on this site.

Put up time.

How many VX pilots were furloughed by AS? When were they furloughed?

I want numbers and dates.



I really believe you are concentrating on the wrong things here. I could throw out any numbers and dates, doesn't change the fact that mergers are not great for the majority of employees. The fact that you're only interested in what happened to pilots also says a lot. Understand this clearly, a buyout/merger is not beneficial for the traveling public or the (majority) employees of the much smaller B6. Despite what you've heard, its not being discussed and is nothing more than a stupid rumor by a small group of disgruntled pilots. STOP trying to spread the lies.



It’s not just JetBlue pilots. The rumor was so strong last year the ELT even had to put out a communication saying it wasn’t true. So you can think it’s disgruntled pilots but it isn’t. (You must work at LSC) :)

The better question to ask yourself is why do these rumors exist. You may want to say it’s just disgruntled pilots but that’s not it and is the easy way out. Morale is at an all time low, even flight ops leadership just admitted it. The company operations are poor at best. The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting. There is simply no vision or leadership at this company right now. Most rational people look at that and go well they are either a poor leadership team or we must be for sale because they seem to no longer care. Trust me it’s a feeling by every employee group not just pilots. There has been a major change in the culture of JetBlue and it’s not gods and it’s very disappointing for many of the employees.

As for new routes or anything who knows these days. The LR decision was due this fall, I have the email now it’s a some point next year. There was to be a new push out west now there isn’t. And on and on, they are fumbling around for a strategy while being hit on all sides from other airlines. (Hello Delta)

This company could do great things but not if the leadership team sticks around.



I do not work in LSC. The problem with a lot of the crew members is they don't realize how good they have it or don't appreciate it. Yes things can always be better. Every airline you go to has there share of problems and employees who want more. You are telling me that crew members are disheartened because the vision of the company is dying. I agree it has not been super flashy with new routes and planes and smashing success stories but that's no reason to give up on management and in effect the company. Chill out and stop being so spoiled. This is the real deal. Competition is tough and times are hard. If people really knew they would laugh to know you really have nothing to complain about.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:45 pm

December traffic number is out
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=58842
The most important part here is that RASM is up 2.4% YoY which is right in the middle of their guidance. Pretty encouraging sign considering
1) AA and DL most downgraded forecast to the very low end of their guidance
2) Very high completion rate which hurts RASM growth a little bit
3) More re-configured A320s + longer stage length which also hurt RASM

3) should really help CASM ex-fuel quite a bit. So no, B6 is not dying. In fact, they actually grew by 7.5% in RPM this year. Which is probably the highest in the industry outside of the ULCCs.

Yes, we all want to see them expand more in places, but they simply don't have cost structure of NK to expand faster. I would rather see them completing their network at BOS and FLL before building up MCO or another focus city. There will be an economy downturn at some point and there will be opportunity for them once they finish building up BOS/FLL. If you want to see airlines that really don't grow, take a look at AA or AS or even WN next year.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

I'm not sure MIA's service levels and AA's performance recently has been undercut by FLL very much (it has a little across the board but not much) in most markets EXCEPT LAX and SFO where Mint seems to have had a real impact. UA dropping MIA-SFO (again) might help AA though there. FLL-SFO is back down to only one daily as well on UA. I do think if WN sticks it out at FLL and eventually adds some more business-oriented destinations, that could be problematic for AA.

As for traffic from Aventura and Sunny Isles, it's been trending toward FLL for a number of years now. Pines now also as you mention though that's happened later. Despite country lines it's easier to get to MIA from Miramar and Pembroke Pines (in Broward) than from Sunny Isles and Aventura (In Miami-Dade). I know folks in Sunny Isles that NEVER fly out of MIA. It's just easier to get to FLL if your east for much of the metro area.

B6 has a while to go before it can really compete with AA. There simply isn't enough space at FLL for them to get as large as AA at MIA. But in the next 5 years, if they grow to 140 to 150 flights with flights to LHR/GRU/GIG/EZE on A321XLR. They can certainly inflict a lot of damage on AA (who is already not making any money at MIA). But they need to continue expanding mint at FLL.

WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.

av8orwalk wrote:
Noticed in our bid packet for February that MCO-LAX-MCO has shifted from a red eye turn to a day turn. Leaves just after noon, arrives in LAX around 4pm then arrives back in MCO just before midnight. I think this will do very well. Hopefully well enough to bring back the red eye for 2 daily flights. Without a doubt, this should be a Mint route. Every time I work this turn at least one customer mentions that we need a premium offering. Maybe this day time flight is testing the waters. A boy can dream!

That's interesting. Current schedule certainly makes it hard for them to get higher fares, but it also lowers their cost on a route that has very low yield. Especially now that fuel prices are low, red eye flying is a good thing. I don't see mint on this route. Yields are too low.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:22 pm

6YBLUE wrote:
fastmover wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:


I really believe you are concentrating on the wrong things here. I could throw out any numbers and dates, doesn't change the fact that mergers are not great for the majority of employees. The fact that you're only interested in what happened to pilots also says a lot. Understand this clearly, a buyout/merger is not beneficial for the traveling public or the (majority) employees of the much smaller B6. Despite what you've heard, its not being discussed and is nothing more than a stupid rumor by a small group of disgruntled pilots. STOP trying to spread the lies.



It’s not just JetBlue pilots. The rumor was so strong last year the ELT even had to put out a communication saying it wasn’t true. So you can think it’s disgruntled pilots but it isn’t. (You must work at LSC) :)

The better question to ask yourself is why do these rumors exist. You may want to say it’s just disgruntled pilots but that’s not it and is the easy way out. Morale is at an all time low, even flight ops leadership just admitted it. The company operations are poor at best. The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting. There is simply no vision or leadership at this company right now. Most rational people look at that and go well they are either a poor leadership team or we must be for sale because they seem to no longer care. Trust me it’s a feeling by every employee group not just pilots. There has been a major change in the culture of JetBlue and it’s not gods and it’s very disappointing for many of the employees.

As for new routes or anything who knows these days. The LR decision was due this fall, I have the email now it’s a some point next year. There was to be a new push out west now there isn’t. And on and on, they are fumbling around for a strategy while being hit on all sides from other airlines. (Hello Delta)

This company could do great things but not if the leadership team sticks around.



I do not work in LSC. The problem with a lot of the crew members is they don't realize how good they have it or don't appreciate it. Yes things can always be better. Every airline you go to has there share of problems and employees who want more. You are telling me that crew members are disheartened because the vision of the company is dying. I agree it has not been super flashy with new routes and planes and smashing success stories but that's no reason to give up on management and in effect the company. Chill out and stop being so spoiled. This is the real deal. Competition is tough and times are hard. If people really knew they would laugh to know you really have nothing to complain about.


Spoiled, such a typical response and so dismissive.
From 0 unions to two with more coming nope not a problem at all. A company without a vision who cares (said the people who work at sears) JD power awards what were those? On time well we aren’t last so we are doing better. Nope don’t you dare complain. Smh
 
jplatts
Posts: 2772
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:28 pm

tphuang wrote:
WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.


WN actually has more market share on domestic air travel in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market than any of its LCC or ULCC competitors. WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to a few markets with no B6 presence such as BZE, CMH, IND, MCI, MKE, STL, and SAT. Is WN actually doing well on FLL-BZE, FLL-CMH, FLL-IND, FLL-MCI, FLL-MKE, FLL-STL, and FLL-SAT nonstop service?

While WN has nonstop service out of FLL to a few destinations in the U.S. and Belize that aren't served by B6, many of WN's nonstop routes out of FLL are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL. Is WN really struggling on nonstop routes out of FLL that are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL?

WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to some destinations such as BWI, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCO, PIT, and TPA that are located in markets that are served by B6 and that don't currently have nonstop service to FLL on B6. How well is WN doing on FLL-BWI, FLL-DAL, FLL-DEN, FLL-HOU, FLL-MCO, FLL-PIT, and FLL-TPA nonstop service?

There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added out of FLL by WN such as FLL-CVG, FLL-SDF, FLL-MEM, and FLL-OMA, but CVG, SDF, MEM, and OMA are located in markets that have no B6 or NK presence.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:22 pm

A couple of more things I missed on my last post.

SY is swapping JFK-MSP with EWR. I don't know what's going to happen to their slots, but this is a good time for B6 to enter the market.

LHR is looking to add as many as 68 more slots a day even without the 3rd runway.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-46794108
This might be helpful if they want to get a competitive schedule to LHR.

I wonder if we can get more slots at LGA once the new technology is in place over the next few years.

jetbluefan1 wrote:
Not sure if JetBlue was planning on releasing this anyway, or if this is related to DL's big BOS announcement a couple weeks ago, but B6 has a pretty lengthy release "reflecting" on its 15 years at BOS which otherwise is non-newsworthy (I was at least hoping for a new flight or 2 to be announced):

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... ton-Future

that was kind of downer post. Actually the entire lack of noise since DL's recent adds is quite disappointing.

Sad to see DAB closing, but even sadder for IAD in my opinion given their long history there. Over the years B6 had a pretty decent operation at IAD and it was apparent they were trying to make a focus city work there. Before opening DCA they flew IAD to MCO, FLL, and PBI, and they even had a decent transcon presence with flights to LGB, OAK, and even SMF. My mind might be fooling me but they may have even tried LAS/SAN at some point (don't quote me on that though). I believe a lot of this was tried before Independence Air.

It really is a shame since Northern Virginia/DC suburbs are growing rapidly, and DCA is full, so there really is nowhere else to expand in the DC area (unless B6 wants to take on WN at BWI, which they appear to be failing at given the discontinuation of BWI-FLL/MCO). I would have much rather seen B6 try to make IAD work than continue to waste money and resources at LGB, which has always been doomed to fail. At least with IAD, there would have been no limits to their expansion, with the potential for another Mint base for flights to LAX/SFO and even SAN/LAS/SEA. But I digress....

totally agreed. I do think they will return to IAD some point down the line once they can get the finances turned around. And those DCA flights should start getting upgauged at some point.
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:35 pm

Ok so what's the deal with B6 at LGB? I thought last year they were going to give up slots and they were to be raffled off by the airport. Has that not happened? Any updates on what the heck is going on with their mess at LGB?
 
User avatar
pitbosflyer
Posts: 350
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:27 pm

jplatts wrote:
tphuang wrote:
WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.


WN actually has more market share on domestic air travel in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market than any of its LCC or ULCC competitors. WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to a few markets with no B6 presence such as BZE, CMH, IND, MCI, MKE, STL, and SAT. Is WN actually doing well on FLL-BZE, FLL-CMH, FLL-IND, FLL-MCI, FLL-MKE, FLL-STL, and FLL-SAT nonstop service?

While WN has nonstop service out of FLL to a few destinations in the U.S. and Belize that aren't served by B6, many of WN's nonstop routes out of FLL are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL. Is WN really struggling on nonstop routes out of FLL that are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL?

WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to some destinations such as BWI, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCO, PIT, and TPA that are located in markets that are served by B6 and that don't currently have nonstop service to FLL on B6. How well is WN doing on FLL-BWI, FLL-DAL, FLL-DEN, FLL-HOU, FLL-MCO, FLL-PIT, and FLL-TPA nonstop service?

There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added out of FLL by WN such as FLL-CVG, FLL-SDF, FLL-MEM, and FLL-OMA, but CVG, SDF, MEM, and OMA are located in markets that have no B6 or NK presence.


B6 used to fly PIT-FLL but just recently cancelled the route giving it back to WN for itself. Whatever the case B6 just couldn't make it work. Now B6 only serves BOS from PIT.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:35 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
jplatts wrote:
tphuang wrote:
WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.


WN actually has more market share on domestic air travel in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market than any of its LCC or ULCC competitors. WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to a few markets with no B6 presence such as BZE, CMH, IND, MCI, MKE, STL, and SAT. Is WN actually doing well on FLL-BZE, FLL-CMH, FLL-IND, FLL-MCI, FLL-MKE, FLL-STL, and FLL-SAT nonstop service?

While WN has nonstop service out of FLL to a few destinations in the U.S. and Belize that aren't served by B6, many of WN's nonstop routes out of FLL are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL. Is WN really struggling on nonstop routes out of FLL that are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL?

WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to some destinations such as BWI, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCO, PIT, and TPA that are located in markets that are served by B6 and that don't currently have nonstop service to FLL on B6. How well is WN doing on FLL-BWI, FLL-DAL, FLL-DEN, FLL-HOU, FLL-MCO, FLL-PIT, and FLL-TPA nonstop service?

There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added out of FLL by WN such as FLL-CVG, FLL-SDF, FLL-MEM, and FLL-OMA, but CVG, SDF, MEM, and OMA are located in markets that have no B6 or NK presence.


B6 used to fly PIT-FLL but just recently cancelled the route giving it back to WN for itself. Whatever the case B6 just couldn't make it work. Now B6 only serves BOS from PIT.

NK is also on PIT-FLL at 1x daily.

I feel like B6 lost out because of NK entering the route. That had to have dragged down yields and three carriers on that route seemed like a bit much. NK went from 5x weekly to daily and even re-timed their flight to match B6. It also doesn't help that WN dominates the PIT point-of-sale due to their presence here being nearly 5x the size of B6 and NK.

There really isn't a whole lot for B6 to do at PIT other than battle DL to BOS. They tried and failed on JFK. Now there is no room for anything to Florida now that G4 and NK have established themselves here, plus you have WN of course.
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:39 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
Ok so what's the deal with B6 at LGB? I thought last year they were going to give up slots and they were to be raffled off by the airport. Has that not happened? Any updates on what the heck is going on with their mess at LGB?


It sounds like B6 cut about 9 daily flights at LGB, decreasing operations from ~32 flights per day to 23.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/04/ ... ornia.aspx

It seems like WN got all 9 slots, as I believe no other carriers were interested in adding service at LGB. WN starts 4x daily LGB-SJC in April, and I believe the 2x daily LGB-SMF frequencies as well as 3x daily LGB-LAS that had been using temporary slots will now utilize the remainder of WN's new permanent LGB slots. All of this new service to Northern California will only make things worse for B6's remaining short haul operations at LGB. I should think WN is patiently waiting for even more LGB slots to come available if/when B6 makes further cuts.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:38 pm

Runway28L wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
jplatts wrote:

WN actually has more market share on domestic air travel in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market than any of its LCC or ULCC competitors. WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to a few markets with no B6 presence such as BZE, CMH, IND, MCI, MKE, STL, and SAT. Is WN actually doing well on FLL-BZE, FLL-CMH, FLL-IND, FLL-MCI, FLL-MKE, FLL-STL, and FLL-SAT nonstop service?

While WN has nonstop service out of FLL to a few destinations in the U.S. and Belize that aren't served by B6, many of WN's nonstop routes out of FLL are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL. Is WN really struggling on nonstop routes out of FLL that are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL?

WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to some destinations such as BWI, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCO, PIT, and TPA that are located in markets that are served by B6 and that don't currently have nonstop service to FLL on B6. How well is WN doing on FLL-BWI, FLL-DAL, FLL-DEN, FLL-HOU, FLL-MCO, FLL-PIT, and FLL-TPA nonstop service?

There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added out of FLL by WN such as FLL-CVG, FLL-SDF, FLL-MEM, and FLL-OMA, but CVG, SDF, MEM, and OMA are located in markets that have no B6 or NK presence.


B6 used to fly PIT-FLL but just recently cancelled the route giving it back to WN for itself. Whatever the case B6 just couldn't make it work. Now B6 only serves BOS from PIT.

NK is also on PIT-FLL at 1x daily.

I feel like B6 lost out because of NK entering the route. That had to have dragged down yields and three carriers on that route seemed like a bit much. NK went from 5x weekly to daily and even re-timed their flight to match B6. It also doesn't help that WN dominates the PIT point-of-sale due to their presence here being nearly 5x the size of B6 and NK.

There really isn't a whole lot for B6 to do at PIT other than battle DL to BOS. They tried and failed on JFK. Now there is no room for anything to Florida now that G4 and NK have established themselves here, plus you have WN of course.



This “no room thing” always makes me laugh.
I guess no airlines can add flights if someone else flys it? If the demand is there they will fly it. Maybe in the future it will come back but I don’t but this there is no room stuff.

As for the Boston announcement my feeling is you won’t see anything more till JetBlue is ready to go and that also goes with solid Europe plans. It seems we wait until everything is ready before they say anything. Once the new gates are there I’m sure you will see a more “splashy” announcement.

The major problem if it is a problem is that they just don’t have the planes to waste on routes unless they are getting something (hello orh)
The COO has said that every plane coming already has a place it will be going be it a new city or more frequencies. They did say no to be surprised if we go back into some markets we left.

I know it’s crazy but I’d love to see a mint operation in IAD trans con and trans Atlantic. I still think they could make a dent there but right now it’s Bos and FLL followed by MCO.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1677
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:39 am

tphuang wrote:
December traffic number is out
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=58842
The most important part here is that RASM is up 2.4% YoY which is right in the middle of their guidance. Pretty encouraging sign considering
1) AA and DL most downgraded forecast to the very low end of their guidance
2) Very high completion rate which hurts RASM growth a little bit
3) More re-configured A320s + longer stage length which also hurt RASM

3) should really help CASM ex-fuel quite a bit. So no, B6 is not dying. In fact, they actually grew by 7.5% in RPM this year. Which is probably the highest in the industry outside of the ULCCs.

Yes, we all want to see them expand more in places, but they simply don't have cost structure of NK to expand faster. I would rather see them completing their network at BOS and FLL before building up MCO or another focus city. There will be an economy downturn at some point and there will be opportunity for them once they finish building up BOS/FLL. If you want to see airlines that really don't grow, take a look at AA or AS or even WN next year.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

I'm not sure MIA's service levels and AA's performance recently has been undercut by FLL very much (it has a little across the board but not much) in most markets EXCEPT LAX and SFO where Mint seems to have had a real impact. UA dropping MIA-SFO (again) might help AA though there. FLL-SFO is back down to only one daily as well on UA. I do think if WN sticks it out at FLL and eventually adds some more business-oriented destinations, that could be problematic for AA.

As for traffic from Aventura and Sunny Isles, it's been trending toward FLL for a number of years now. Pines now also as you mention though that's happened later. Despite country lines it's easier to get to MIA from Miramar and Pembroke Pines (in Broward) than from Sunny Isles and Aventura (In Miami-Dade). I know folks in Sunny Isles that NEVER fly out of MIA. It's just easier to get to FLL if your east for much of the metro area.

B6 has a while to go before it can really compete with AA. There simply isn't enough space at FLL for them to get as large as AA at MIA. But in the next 5 years, if they grow to 140 to 150 flights with flights to LHR/GRU/GIG/EZE on A321XLR. They can certainly inflict a lot of damage on AA (who is already not making any money at MIA). But they need to continue expanding mint at FLL.

WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.

av8orwalk wrote:
Noticed in our bid packet for February that MCO-LAX-MCO has shifted from a red eye turn to a day turn. Leaves just after noon, arrives in LAX around 4pm then arrives back in MCO just before midnight. I think this will do very well. Hopefully well enough to bring back the red eye for 2 daily flights. Without a doubt, this should be a Mint route. Every time I work this turn at least one customer mentions that we need a premium offering. Maybe this day time flight is testing the waters. A boy can dream!

That's interesting. Current schedule certainly makes it hard for them to get higher fares, but it also lowers their cost on a route that has very low yield. Especially now that fuel prices are low, red eye flying is a good thing. I don't see mint on this route. Yields are too low.


WN is only TEMPORARY reduced FLL flying during the Runway construction. This is to minimize the impact to the WN system from daily Flow control program during the construction period. Yes some non stop markets will be temporarily stopped. But WN added an increase in 800/8MAX flying At FLL to keep passengers volume at pre construction levels.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
heretothere
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:50 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:06 am

wnflyguy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
December traffic number is out
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=58842
The most important part here is that RASM is up 2.4% YoY which is right in the middle of their guidance. Pretty encouraging sign considering
1) AA and DL most downgraded forecast to the very low end of their guidance
2) Very high completion rate which hurts RASM growth a little bit
3) More re-configured A320s + longer stage length which also hurt RASM

3) should really help CASM ex-fuel quite a bit. So no, B6 is not dying. In fact, they actually grew by 7.5% in RPM this year. Which is probably the highest in the industry outside of the ULCCs.

Yes, we all want to see them expand more in places, but they simply don't have cost structure of NK to expand faster. I would rather see them completing their network at BOS and FLL before building up MCO or another focus city. There will be an economy downturn at some point and there will be opportunity for them once they finish building up BOS/FLL. If you want to see airlines that really don't grow, take a look at AA or AS or even WN next year.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

I'm not sure MIA's service levels and AA's performance recently has been undercut by FLL very much (it has a little across the board but not much) in most markets EXCEPT LAX and SFO where Mint seems to have had a real impact. UA dropping MIA-SFO (again) might help AA though there. FLL-SFO is back down to only one daily as well on UA. I do think if WN sticks it out at FLL and eventually adds some more business-oriented destinations, that could be problematic for AA.

As for traffic from Aventura and Sunny Isles, it's been trending toward FLL for a number of years now. Pines now also as you mention though that's happened later. Despite country lines it's easier to get to MIA from Miramar and Pembroke Pines (in Broward) than from Sunny Isles and Aventura (In Miami-Dade). I know folks in Sunny Isles that NEVER fly out of MIA. It's just easier to get to FLL if your east for much of the metro area.

B6 has a while to go before it can really compete with AA. There simply isn't enough space at FLL for them to get as large as AA at MIA. But in the next 5 years, if they grow to 140 to 150 flights with flights to LHR/GRU/GIG/EZE on A321XLR. They can certainly inflict a lot of damage on AA (who is already not making any money at MIA). But they need to continue expanding mint at FLL.

WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.

av8orwalk wrote:
Noticed in our bid packet for February that MCO-LAX-MCO has shifted from a red eye turn to a day turn. Leaves just after noon, arrives in LAX around 4pm then arrives back in MCO just before midnight. I think this will do very well. Hopefully well enough to bring back the red eye for 2 daily flights. Without a doubt, this should be a Mint route. Every time I work this turn at least one customer mentions that we need a premium offering. Maybe this day time flight is testing the waters. A boy can dream!

That's interesting. Current schedule certainly makes it hard for them to get higher fares, but it also lowers their cost on a route that has very low yield. Especially now that fuel prices are low, red eye flying is a good thing. I don't see mint on this route. Yields are too low.


WN is only TEMPORARY reduced FLL flying during the Runway construction. This is to minimize the impact to the WN system from daily Flow control program during the construction period. Yes some non stop markets will be temporarily stopped. But WN added an increase in 800/8MAX flying At FLL to keep passengers volume at pre construction levels.

Flyguy


No they did not add more 738/7M8 YoY. In fact they have less (26 last year vs 24 this year). It’s impressive how factless your posts are consistently.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:19 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
WN is only TEMPORARY reduced FLL flying during the Runway construction. This is to minimize the impact to the WN system from daily Flow control program during the construction period. Yes some non stop markets will be temporarily stopped. But WN added an increase in 800/8MAX flying At FLL to keep passengers volume at pre construction levels.

Flyguy


They've cut a lot from NorthEast to FLL for the plain fact that B6 is wiping them out in many of these markets. They are down to mid 70s in flights this summer. And as the other posters said, they are not adding more B738s. In fact, they've added more frequencies on BWI/BNA-FLL. Which means they are going to push traffic from east coast to FLL through their primary focus cities. It's pretty obvious that BNA is their focus on east coast now.

fastmover wrote:

This “no room thing” always makes me laugh.
I guess no airlines can add flights if someone else flys it? If the demand is there they will fly it. Maybe in the future it will come back but I don’t but this there is no room stuff.

As for the Boston announcement my feeling is you won’t see anything more till JetBlue is ready to go and that also goes with solid Europe plans. It seems we wait until everything is ready before they say anything. Once the new gates are there I’m sure you will see a more “splashy” announcement.

The major problem if it is a problem is that they just don’t have the planes to waste on routes unless they are getting something (hello orh)
The COO has said that every plane coming already has a place it will be going be it a new city or more frequencies. They did say no to be surprised if we go back into some markets we left.

I know it’s crazy but I’d love to see a mint operation in IAD trans con and trans Atlantic. I still think they could make a dent there but right now it’s Bos and FLL followed by MCO.


Agree wholly with everything you said. I still think there is a future down the road from IAD, but not in the next 5 years. I see PIT-FLL coming back. FLL is growing and PIT station isn't going away. It's just a matter of time before some of these cut ones come back. I wonder when they are getting the new gates at BOS. They are pretty gate constrained from March to May.

From OAG thread this week

B6 BOS-RSW JUL 3>2[3] AUG 3>2[3]
B6 BOS-SDQ MAY 1.4>1.9[1.0]
B6 BOS-SLC MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 BQN-JFK MAY 0.7>0.9[0.5]
B6 BUF-LAX MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 CTG-FLL MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 CUN-JFK MAY 3>1.7[2]
B6 DCA-RSW MAY 1.0>1.6[1.0]
B6 JFK-PDX MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 LGB-SEA MAR 1.0>1.6[1.6] APR 1.0>1.9[2] MAY 1.0>2[2.0] JUN 1.0>2[2] JUL 1.0>2[2] AUG 1.0>2[2]
So shifting LGB flight from BOS to SEA. Makes a lot of sense. I don't know why they cut LGB-SEA down to 1 when it was one of the few routes they performed well. And BOS-LGB twice a day was too much . I don't see the additional flight to BNA yet on google flights. Although it makes sense for them to add there. I guess rest is just a lot of off-peak trimming on daily flight. JFK-PDX/BUF-LAX/BOS-SLC are three of their worst performing transcon-ish flights.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:01 pm

saw this in Caribbean thread. Maybe the JFK-GEO flight will come this year.
https://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/2019 ... -ferguson/
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:17 pm

tphuang wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN is only TEMPORARY reduced FLL flying during the Runway construction. This is to minimize the impact to the WN system from daily Flow control program during the construction period. Yes some non stop markets will be temporarily stopped. But WN added an increase in 800/8MAX flying At FLL to keep passengers volume at pre construction levels.

Flyguy


They've cut a lot from NorthEast to FLL for the plain fact that B6 is wiping them out in many of these markets. They are down to mid 70s in flights this summer. And as the other posters said, they are not adding more B738s. In fact, they've added more frequencies on BWI/BNA-FLL. Which means they are going to push traffic from east coast to FLL through their primary focus cities. It's pretty obvious that BNA is their focus on east coast now.

fastmover wrote:

This “no room thing” always makes me laugh.
I guess no airlines can add flights if someone else flys it? If the demand is there they will fly it. Maybe in the future it will come back but I don’t but this there is no room stuff.

As for the Boston announcement my feeling is you won’t see anything more till JetBlue is ready to go and that also goes with solid Europe plans. It seems we wait until everything is ready before they say anything. Once the new gates are there I’m sure you will see a more “splashy” announcement.

The major problem if it is a problem is that they just don’t have the planes to waste on routes unless they are getting something (hello orh)
The COO has said that every plane coming already has a place it will be going be it a new city or more frequencies. They did say no to be surprised if we go back into some markets we left.

I know it’s crazy but I’d love to see a mint operation in IAD trans con and trans Atlantic. I still think they could make a dent there but right now it’s Bos and FLL followed by MCO.


Agree wholly with everything you said. I still think there is a future down the road from IAD, but not in the next 5 years. I see PIT-FLL coming back. FLL is growing and PIT station isn't going away. It's just a matter of time before some of these cut ones come back. I wonder when they are getting the new gates at BOS. They are pretty gate constrained from March to May.

From OAG thread this week

B6 BOS-RSW JUL 3>2[3] AUG 3>2[3]
B6 BOS-SDQ MAY 1.4>1.9[1.0]
B6 BOS-SLC MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 BQN-JFK MAY 0.7>0.9[0.5]
B6 BUF-LAX MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 CTG-FLL MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 CUN-JFK MAY 3>1.7[2]
B6 DCA-RSW MAY 1.0>1.6[1.0]
B6 JFK-PDX MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 LGB-SEA MAR 1.0>1.6[1.6] APR 1.0>1.9[2] MAY 1.0>2[2.0] JUN 1.0>2[2] JUL 1.0>2[2] AUG 1.0>2[2]
So shifting LGB flight from BOS to SEA. Makes a lot of sense. I don't know why they cut LGB-SEA down to 1 when it was one of the few routes they performed well. And BOS-LGB twice a day was too much . I don't see the additional flight to BNA yet on google flights. Although it makes sense for them to add there. I guess rest is just a lot of off-peak trimming on daily flight. JFK-PDX/BUF-LAX/BOS-SLC are three of their worst performing transcon-ish flights.



Most of that stuff is way over my head. I don’t have the numbers like our planners do. What does get me is the no room argument. If that’s the case why is it airliners.net gospel that Delta will push JetBlue out of Boston? Many new Delta routes have AA and JetBlue on them so there isn’t “room” but it’s Delta so they will make room....lol.

Look it’s easy the plane could make more money in another place. JetBlue doesn’t like to have a route just to have one unless it’s for a political reason. We just don’t have extra planes to waste.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3278
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:14 pm

tphuang wrote:
December traffic number is out
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=58842
The most important part here is that RASM is up 2.4% YoY which is right in the middle of their guidance. Pretty encouraging sign considering
1) AA and DL most downgraded forecast to the very low end of their guidance
2) Very high completion rate which hurts RASM growth a little bit
3) More re-configured A320s + longer stage length which also hurt RASM

3) should really help CASM ex-fuel quite a bit. So no, B6 is not dying. In fact, they actually grew by 7.5% in RPM this year. Which is probably the highest in the industry outside of the ULCCs.


All good points. Specifically they said the higher completion rate shaved .3% off RASM, so the adjusted 2.7% rate is higher than the mid point of their guidance, which is an encouraging sign. Quite a contrast to DL/AA, both of whom I believe specifically pointed to softening domestic booking trends, so it's a bit surprising B6 didn't feel the same effects.

As you noted the higher density A320's + longer strange make these numbers all the more impressive - and, also, the addition of more 200-seat A321's. All of these should, in theory, reduce CASM and thus become margin accretive to B6's bottom line.

To be sure this brings some relief after reading the somewhat dire predictions being thrown around some of the other threads.

tphuang wrote:
Yes, we all want to see them expand more in places, but they simply don't have cost structure of NK to expand faster. I would rather see them completing their network at BOS and FLL before building up MCO or another focus city. There will be an economy downturn at some point and there will be opportunity for them once they finish building up BOS/FLL. If you want to see airlines that really don't grow, take a look at AA or AS or even WN next year.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

I'm not sure MIA's service levels and AA's performance recently has been undercut by FLL very much (it has a little across the board but not much) in most markets EXCEPT LAX and SFO where Mint seems to have had a real impact. UA dropping MIA-SFO (again) might help AA though there. FLL-SFO is back down to only one daily as well on UA. I do think if WN sticks it out at FLL and eventually adds some more business-oriented destinations, that could be problematic for AA.

As for traffic from Aventura and Sunny Isles, it's been trending toward FLL for a number of years now. Pines now also as you mention though that's happened later. Despite country lines it's easier to get to MIA from Miramar and Pembroke Pines (in Broward) than from Sunny Isles and Aventura (In Miami-Dade). I know folks in Sunny Isles that NEVER fly out of MIA. It's just easier to get to FLL if your east for much of the metro area.

B6 has a while to go before it can really compete with AA. There simply isn't enough space at FLL for them to get as large as AA at MIA. But in the next 5 years, if they grow to 140 to 150 flights with flights to LHR/GRU/GIG/EZE on A321XLR. They can certainly inflict a lot of damage on AA (who is already not making any money at MIA). But they need to continue expanding mint at FLL.

WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.

av8orwalk wrote:
Noticed in our bid packet for February that MCO-LAX-MCO has shifted from a red eye turn to a day turn. Leaves just after noon, arrives in LAX around 4pm then arrives back in MCO just before midnight. I think this will do very well. Hopefully well enough to bring back the red eye for 2 daily flights. Without a doubt, this should be a Mint route. Every time I work this turn at least one customer mentions that we need a premium offering. Maybe this day time flight is testing the waters. A boy can dream!

That's interesting. Current schedule certainly makes it hard for them to get higher fares, but it also lowers their cost on a route that has very low yield. Especially now that fuel prices are low, red eye flying is a good thing. I don't see mint on this route. Yields are too low.


I agree that NK is a bigger threat than WN @ FLL, especially when you consider that WN's growth has largely flatlined when looking at future schedules. WN just can't compete to very large and lucrative markets like NYC, BOS, DCA, LA, or SF, and has struggled to build as large of a Caribbean/LatAm network as B6. I think that once you see an economic downturn, someone here is going to blink, and I just don't see it being B6 or NK...

Interesting that MCO-LAX is becoming a daytime flight. Although, I agree that it is way too low yielding to get Mint. If anything, FLL-LAX/SFO need a few more Mint rotations. I even think B6 could try Mint on a market like FLL-LIM, and eventually get into GIG/GRU/SCL/EZE if and when the XLR becomes available.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3278
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:30 pm

fastmover wrote:
tphuang wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN is only TEMPORARY reduced FLL flying during the Runway construction. This is to minimize the impact to the WN system from daily Flow control program during the construction period. Yes some non stop markets will be temporarily stopped. But WN added an increase in 800/8MAX flying At FLL to keep passengers volume at pre construction levels.

Flyguy


They've cut a lot from NorthEast to FLL for the plain fact that B6 is wiping them out in many of these markets. They are down to mid 70s in flights this summer. And as the other posters said, they are not adding more B738s. In fact, they've added more frequencies on BWI/BNA-FLL. Which means they are going to push traffic from east coast to FLL through their primary focus cities. It's pretty obvious that BNA is their focus on east coast now.

fastmover wrote:

This “no room thing” always makes me laugh.
I guess no airlines can add flights if someone else flys it? If the demand is there they will fly it. Maybe in the future it will come back but I don’t but this there is no room stuff.

As for the Boston announcement my feeling is you won’t see anything more till JetBlue is ready to go and that also goes with solid Europe plans. It seems we wait until everything is ready before they say anything. Once the new gates are there I’m sure you will see a more “splashy” announcement.

The major problem if it is a problem is that they just don’t have the planes to waste on routes unless they are getting something (hello orh)
The COO has said that every plane coming already has a place it will be going be it a new city or more frequencies. They did say no to be surprised if we go back into some markets we left.

I know it’s crazy but I’d love to see a mint operation in IAD trans con and trans Atlantic. I still think they could make a dent there but right now it’s Bos and FLL followed by MCO.


Agree wholly with everything you said. I still think there is a future down the road from IAD, but not in the next 5 years. I see PIT-FLL coming back. FLL is growing and PIT station isn't going away. It's just a matter of time before some of these cut ones come back. I wonder when they are getting the new gates at BOS. They are pretty gate constrained from March to May.

From OAG thread this week

B6 BOS-RSW JUL 3>2[3] AUG 3>2[3]
B6 BOS-SDQ MAY 1.4>1.9[1.0]
B6 BOS-SLC MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 BQN-JFK MAY 0.7>0.9[0.5]
B6 BUF-LAX MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 CTG-FLL MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 CUN-JFK MAY 3>1.7[2]
B6 DCA-RSW MAY 1.0>1.6[1.0]
B6 JFK-PDX MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 LGB-SEA MAR 1.0>1.6[1.6] APR 1.0>1.9[2] MAY 1.0>2[2.0] JUN 1.0>2[2] JUL 1.0>2[2] AUG 1.0>2[2]
So shifting LGB flight from BOS to SEA. Makes a lot of sense. I don't know why they cut LGB-SEA down to 1 when it was one of the few routes they performed well. And BOS-LGB twice a day was too much . I don't see the additional flight to BNA yet on google flights. Although it makes sense for them to add there. I guess rest is just a lot of off-peak trimming on daily flight. JFK-PDX/BUF-LAX/BOS-SLC are three of their worst performing transcon-ish flights.



Most of that stuff is way over my head. I don’t have the numbers like our planners do. What does get me is the no room argument. If that’s the case why is it airliners.net gospel that Delta will push JetBlue out of Boston? Many new Delta routes have AA and JetBlue on them so there isn’t “room” but it’s Delta so they will make room....lol.

Look it’s easy the plane could make more money in another place. JetBlue doesn’t like to have a route just to have one unless it’s for a political reason. We just don’t have extra planes to waste.


I agree that the "room" argument is not so simplistic. B6 has coexisted with DL at JFK for a very long time and there are no signs of that changing, and it's hard to see why the same wouldn't happen at BOS. Moreover B6 remains the largest carrier at BOS by a large margin, and has access to more gates, so it's not like DL can leapfrog B6 without there being some very big changes to the BOS gate situation. The lack of FIS at Terminal A will also continue to make the market a difficult international transit point for DL customers.

I also think that, to a certain extent, people are already pre-judging what will happen at BOS before we have even arrived to the most "extreme" part of the competition. Only recently has DL entered or announced its plans to enter UA/AA mega-hubs from BOS, which is where DL stands to experience the most pain and where B6 has already established itself. Somehow, I don't think those 76-seaters to PHL, EWR, ORD, and DCA are going to make money all that easily. DL also remains uncompetitive to SFO, is tied for #3 to LAX, and still has a lot of large dots to connect which will also face a lot of competition (IAH, DFW, DEN, PHX to name a few). So it remains to be seen how long DL is willing to sustain large capacity dumps to other airlines' hubs in order to build up its BOS presence. I would suspect a lot of this depends on how well the domestic economy continues to perform, which will directly impact DL's money-printing operations at ATL, MSP, and DTW which allow DL to experiment with build-ups in places like SEA, RDU, and yes - BOS.
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
Only recently has DL entered or announced its plans to enter UA/AA mega-hubs from BOS, which is where DL stands to experience the most pain and where B6 has already established itself.


Many recall that DL has (at least twice) added and then yanked flights to SFO/LAX (back to the Song days). They might be a laggard in those markets because people expect them to wave the white flag again at some point.
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:12 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
Ok so what's the deal with B6 at LGB? I thought last year they were going to give up slots and they were to be raffled off by the airport. Has that not happened? Any updates on what the heck is going on with their mess at LGB?


It sounds like B6 cut about 9 daily flights at LGB, decreasing operations from ~32 flights per day to 23.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/04/ ... ornia.aspx

It seems like WN got all 9 slots, as I believe no other carriers were interested in adding service at LGB. WN starts 4x daily LGB-SJC in April, and I believe the 2x daily LGB-SMF frequencies as well as 3x daily LGB-LAS that had been using temporary slots will now utilize the remainder of WN's new permanent LGB slots. All of this new service to Northern California will only make things worse for B6's remaining short haul operations at LGB. I should think WN is patiently waiting for even more LGB slots to come available if/when B6 makes further cuts.


Interesting, but unfortunately not surprised to see this happening. Thanks for the update.
 
windian425
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:16 pm

For the JFK-GEO option, B6 will need either A320NEO or A321NEO. They should receive a few of them in 2019 so its possible for the 4th Qrt 2019.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2234
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:32 pm

windian425 wrote:
For the JFK-GEO option, B6 will need either A320NEO or A321NEO. They should receive a few of them in 2019 so its possible for the 4th Qrt 2019.


13 321neo's coming this year.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
windian425
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 pm

No A320NEO's this year?
 
unusualattitude
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:49 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:35 pm

windian425 wrote:
No A320NEO's this year?

No A320 NEOs period. All airbus deliveries from this point forward are A321 NEOs.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1531
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:43 pm

unusualattitude wrote:
windian425 wrote:
No A320NEO's this year?

No A320 NEOs period. All airbus deliveries from this point forward are A321 NEOs.


Even the regular A321NEO should EASILY reach Western Europe. So...no more excuses NOT to fly to Europe, B6!
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3096
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:09 pm

windian425 wrote:
For the JFK-GEO option, B6 will need either A320NEO or A321NEO. They should receive a few of them in 2019 so its possible for the 4th Qrt 2019.



JFK-GEO is shorter than BOS-SFO and they have a 10K foot runway. Is there something I'm missing that requires an NEO?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
windian425
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:40 pm

Runway at GEO is only 7,448ft-long. A320CEO would struggle with a full payload to make JFK.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1531
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:12 am

Dieuwer wrote:
unusualattitude wrote:
windian425 wrote:
No A320NEO's this year?

No A320 NEOs period. All airbus deliveries from this point forward are A321 NEOs.


Even the regular A321NEO should EASILY reach Western Europe. So...no more excuses NOT to fly to Europe, B6!


In fact, B6 already flies 600+ miles over water. To Bermuda.
So they could easily do Europe via the Danish Crown Route, with emergency points at GOH, KEF and EDI.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:41 pm

As an update, I see the increased schedule to BNA out of BOS/FLL. it's quite curious, they increased to 3 a day out of BOS and 2 a day out of FLL from start of May to Mid June and then they are back to 2 and 1. I wonder if it's because they need those planes for JFK in peak summer period. They always seem to run out of planes in the peak summer period. With the 13 A321s they are receiving this year, I would've thought they'd have more places they can add. Maybe it's because they will have more A320s out of commission doing the reconfigurations.

The new schedule update will show if they intend to increase frequency on some of the BOS routes like CLE/BNA.

jetbluefan1 wrote:
fastmover wrote:

Most of that stuff is way over my head. I don’t have the numbers like our planners do. What does get me is the no room argument. If that’s the case why is it airliners.net gospel that Delta will push JetBlue out of Boston? Many new Delta routes have AA and JetBlue on them so there isn’t “room” but it’s Delta so they will make room....lol.

Look it’s easy the plane could make more money in another place. JetBlue doesn’t like to have a route just to have one unless it’s for a political reason. We just don’t have extra planes to waste.


I agree that the "room" argument is not so simplistic. B6 has coexisted with DL at JFK for a very long time and there are no signs of that changing, and it's hard to see why the same wouldn't happen at BOS. Moreover B6 remains the largest carrier at BOS by a large margin, and has access to more gates, so it's not like DL can leapfrog B6 without there being some very big changes to the BOS gate situation. The lack of FIS at Terminal A will also continue to make the market a difficult international transit point for DL customers.

I also think that, to a certain extent, people are already pre-judging what will happen at BOS before we have even arrived to the most "extreme" part of the competition. Only recently has DL entered or announced its plans to enter UA/AA mega-hubs from BOS, which is where DL stands to experience the most pain and where B6 has already established itself. Somehow, I don't think those 76-seaters to PHL, EWR, ORD, and DCA are going to make money all that easily. DL also remains uncompetitive to SFO, is tied for #3 to LAX, and still has a lot of large dots to connect which will also face a lot of competition (IAH, DFW, DEN, PHX to name a few). So it remains to be seen how long DL is willing to sustain large capacity dumps to other airlines' hubs in order to build up its BOS presence. I would suspect a lot of this depends on how well the domestic economy continues to perform, which will directly impact DL's money-printing operations at ATL, MSP, and DTW which allow DL to experiment with build-ups in places like SEA, RDU, and yes - BOS.


B6 is dying narrative seems to be more fun to talk about on a.net than B6 is a competitive airline that will continue to thrive. I think given the Q4 numbers we've seen, we are already seeing that the adjustments they made at LGB helping the bottom line. And the tweaks they made in Q1 will continue to help that trend. It's interesting that in a couple of years, they've gone from a network that's really dependent on BOS to achieve above average margin to one that is more dependent on JFK and FLL. It shows how well their build up at FLL has been and how valuable those JFK slots are.

I see a few possibilities going forward:
1) DL turns their BOS station performance around well enough that they keep most of the routes they've added + add a few more monopolies. And they co-exist nicely with B6. That way BOS will become another JFK. Except since BOS is not slot constrained, I think it will continue to be not as profitable as JFK. Which makes its next expansion at MCO a little harder. Since they will basically be banking MCO expansion on FLL/JFK profits only.
2) DL's performance at BOS continues to be awful and economy takes a bad turn. In this case, I think B6 will just push DL out. At some point DL will say enough is enough and give up routes they will always hemorrage money on like PIT/BUF/SFO/CLE/EWR/ORD/PHL. That will give B6 3 solidly profitable focus cities with BOS being extremely high margined. Then, they can build up MCO to really compete with WN. MCO will probably never be as profitable as FLL, but I think they can grow it to become as large as WN and be the primary international carrier there.
3) A downturn happens and B6 margin goes down so much that it faces a lot more buy out pressure and have to stop their BOS growth to protect margin.

I personally think 2) is most likely here, but i'm quite biased. A lot of people think 1) is likely, but imo that would rely on DL being willing to tolerate even worse margin at BOS than NYC (which is already a really low margined station for them). Some people seem to think B6 is doomed and 3) will be the outcome, but I think that's quite unlikely.

Other variable here is if JFK will loose slotting at some point. That could shift B6 expansion back to JFK. And there are other airlines that factor here too. If NK continues to do well at DTW and SY continues to add more daily routes out of MSP for example, that would decrease DL performance there. All quite unknowns.
 
CaptCoolHand
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:18 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
unusualattitude wrote:
windian425 wrote:
No A320NEO's this year?

No A320 NEOs period. All airbus deliveries from this point forward are A321 NEOs.


Even the regular A321NEO should EASILY reach Western Europe. So...no more excuses NOT to fly to Europe, B6!


Getting to the party isn't nearly as hard as getting home from the party.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:04 pm

Another thing to consider is the A220 development. See viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1413243 and the LNC articles attached to this issue. It seems like A220 is way forward for B6. If even A220-300 is competitive in operating cost to A320NEO, then A220-500 would be a no-brainer for B6 if it was offered. I'm not surprised they converted all the A320NEO series orders to A321NEO. With A220 in the picture, the replacement for A320 series would be a combo of A220-300 and 500. I still think they need a small number of A220-100 for BOS shuttle routes. So as A320 starts retirement, my guess is they will exercise the option for those 60 A220s, which in 5 years should be huge bargain prices. And then you could end up something like
20 A220-100 (for BOS-LGA/DCA/PHL/BWI/EWR) -> 115 to 120 seats, no FC Cabin
50 A220-300 (for replacement of remaining E90 routes + some midcon/transcon routes) -> 140 seats, small FC cabin (maybe 2 rows of 4)
50 A220-500 (for large number of A320 routes) -> 165 seats, small FC cabin
100 A321/NEO (high volume/low CASM trunk routes) -> 200 seats
60 A321/NEO/LR(with lie flat beds for premium transcon, international flights) -> 140 to 165 seats depending on how premium they want to make it.

They probably will need more 300/500 than that to replace all the A320s + some more A321s on routes that can support that. I would imagine all the JFK routes will be at least A220-300, since all of their current remaining E90 routes can support more capacity. DCA will probably go to all A220-300 outside of BOS-DCA.

Looking at JFK, the remaining E90 routes are BOS/ORD/CLT/RDU/ACK/MVY/HYA/BUF/ROC/SYR/PWM/BTV. Most of these routes can probably even support A320s right now (at least in summer time) now that they've re-allocated some of those frequencies for longer ranged flights (BOS/BUF are down to 5 daily this summer, while ORD/CLT/RDU all stuck at 2 daily). They've grown about 3% this past year in revenue passenger (and probably a little more than that in RPM) through upgauging + more intensive usage of slots. Seems like this is the only way they can grow further at JFK. It makes no sense to only be running 2 E90s daily on JFK-ORD in summer time.
 
stlgph
Posts: 10976
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:56 pm

tphuang wrote:
As an update, I see the increased schedule to BNA out of BOS/FLL. it's quite curious, they increased to 3 a day out of BOS and 2 a day out of FLL from start of May to Mid June and then they are back to 2 and 1. I wonder if it's because they need those planes for JFK in peak summer period. They always seem to run out of planes in the peak summer period. With the 13 A321s they are receiving this year, I would've thought they'd have more places they can add. Maybe it's because they will have more A320s out of commission doing the reconfigurations.

The new schedule update will show if they intend to increase frequency on some of the BOS routes like CLE/BNA.

jetbluefan1 wrote:
fastmover wrote:

Most of that stuff is way over my head. I don’t have the numbers like our planners do. What does get me is the no room argument. If that’s the case why is it airliners.net gospel that Delta will push JetBlue out of Boston? Many new Delta routes have AA and JetBlue on them so there isn’t “room” but it’s Delta so they will make room....lol.

Look it’s easy the plane could make more money in another place. JetBlue doesn’t like to have a route just to have one unless it’s for a political reason. We just don’t have extra planes to waste.


I agree that the "room" argument is not so simplistic. B6 has coexisted with DL at JFK for a very long time and there are no signs of that changing, and it's hard to see why the same wouldn't happen at BOS. Moreover B6 remains the largest carrier at BOS by a large margin, and has access to more gates, so it's not like DL can leapfrog B6 without there being some very big changes to the BOS gate situation. The lack of FIS at Terminal A will also continue to make the market a difficult international transit point for DL customers.

I also think that, to a certain extent, people are already pre-judging what will happen at BOS before we have even arrived to the most "extreme" part of the competition. Only recently has DL entered or announced its plans to enter UA/AA mega-hubs from BOS, which is where DL stands to experience the most pain and where B6 has already established itself. Somehow, I don't think those 76-seaters to PHL, EWR, ORD, and DCA are going to make money all that easily. DL also remains uncompetitive to SFO, is tied for #3 to LAX, and still has a lot of large dots to connect which will also face a lot of competition (IAH, DFW, DEN, PHX to name a few). So it remains to be seen how long DL is willing to sustain large capacity dumps to other airlines' hubs in order to build up its BOS presence. I would suspect a lot of this depends on how well the domestic economy continues to perform, which will directly impact DL's money-printing operations at ATL, MSP, and DTW which allow DL to experiment with build-ups in places like SEA, RDU, and yes - BOS.


B6 is dying narrative seems to be more fun to talk about on a.net than B6 is a competitive airline that will continue to thrive. I think given the Q4 numbers we've seen, we are already seeing that the adjustments they made at LGB helping the bottom line. And the tweaks they made in Q1 will continue to help that trend. It's interesting that in a couple of years, they've gone from a network that's really dependent on BOS to achieve above average margin to one that is more dependent on JFK and FLL. It shows how well their build up at FLL has been and how valuable those JFK slots are.

I see a few possibilities going forward:
1) DL turns their BOS station performance around well enough that they keep most of the routes they've added + add a few more monopolies. And they co-exist nicely with B6. That way BOS will become another JFK. Except since BOS is not slot constrained, I think it will continue to be not as profitable as JFK. Which makes its next expansion at MCO a little harder. Since they will basically be banking MCO expansion on FLL/JFK profits only.
2) DL's performance at BOS continues to be awful and economy takes a bad turn. In this case, I think B6 will just push DL out. At some point DL will say enough is enough and give up routes they will always hemorrage money on like PIT/BUF/SFO/CLE/EWR/ORD/PHL. That will give B6 3 solidly profitable focus cities with BOS being extremely high margined. Then, they can build up MCO to really compete with WN. MCO will probably never be as profitable as FLL, but I think they can grow it to become as large as WN and be the primary international carrier there.
3) A downturn happens and B6 margin goes down so much that it faces a lot more buy out pressure and have to stop their BOS growth to protect margin.

I personally think 2) is most likely here, but i'm quite biased. A lot of people think 1) is likely, but imo that would rely on DL being willing to tolerate even worse margin at BOS than NYC (which is already a really low margined station for them). Some people seem to think B6 is doomed and 3) will be the outcome, but I think that's quite unlikely.

Other variable here is if JFK will loose slotting at some point. That could shift B6 expansion back to JFK. And there are other airlines that factor here too. If NK continues to do well at DTW and SY continues to add more daily routes out of MSP for example, that would decrease DL performance there. All quite unknowns.


It's really amazing how you keep coming on here and in all kinds of threats, you always post a bunch of routes and always say they are always massively bleeding money for Delta Air Lines.

Yet, they keep continue to flying them and keep posting excellent quarterly profit results.

So, I guess congratulations to Atlanta - Chattanooga for bringing in billions ever year. Keep up the good work, we're all counting on you, especially Dr. Rumack.

Maybe JetBlue can have the same luck someday? Boston-Chattanooga is waiting for you.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:14 pm

stlgph wrote:
tphuang wrote:
As an update, I see the increased schedule to BNA out of BOS/FLL. it's quite curious, they increased to 3 a day out of BOS and 2 a day out of FLL from start of May to Mid June and then they are back to 2 and 1. I wonder if it's because they need those planes for JFK in peak summer period. They always seem to run out of planes in the peak summer period. With the 13 A321s they are receiving this year, I would've thought they'd have more places they can add. Maybe it's because they will have more A320s out of commission doing the reconfigurations.

The new schedule update will show if they intend to increase frequency on some of the BOS routes like CLE/BNA.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

I agree that the "room" argument is not so simplistic. B6 has coexisted with DL at JFK for a very long time and there are no signs of that changing, and it's hard to see why the same wouldn't happen at BOS. Moreover B6 remains the largest carrier at BOS by a large margin, and has access to more gates, so it's not like DL can leapfrog B6 without there being some very big changes to the BOS gate situation. The lack of FIS at Terminal A will also continue to make the market a difficult international transit point for DL customers.

I also think that, to a certain extent, people are already pre-judging what will happen at BOS before we have even arrived to the most "extreme" part of the competition. Only recently has DL entered or announced its plans to enter UA/AA mega-hubs from BOS, which is where DL stands to experience the most pain and where B6 has already established itself. Somehow, I don't think those 76-seaters to PHL, EWR, ORD, and DCA are going to make money all that easily. DL also remains uncompetitive to SFO, is tied for #3 to LAX, and still has a lot of large dots to connect which will also face a lot of competition (IAH, DFW, DEN, PHX to name a few). So it remains to be seen how long DL is willing to sustain large capacity dumps to other airlines' hubs in order to build up its BOS presence. I would suspect a lot of this depends on how well the domestic economy continues to perform, which will directly impact DL's money-printing operations at ATL, MSP, and DTW which allow DL to experiment with build-ups in places like SEA, RDU, and yes - BOS.


B6 is dying narrative seems to be more fun to talk about on a.net than B6 is a competitive airline that will continue to thrive. I think given the Q4 numbers we've seen, we are already seeing that the adjustments they made at LGB helping the bottom line. And the tweaks they made in Q1 will continue to help that trend. It's interesting that in a couple of years, they've gone from a network that's really dependent on BOS to achieve above average margin to one that is more dependent on JFK and FLL. It shows how well their build up at FLL has been and how valuable those JFK slots are.

I see a few possibilities going forward:
1) DL turns their BOS station performance around well enough that they keep most of the routes they've added + add a few more monopolies. And they co-exist nicely with B6. That way BOS will become another JFK. Except since BOS is not slot constrained, I think it will continue to be not as profitable as JFK. Which makes its next expansion at MCO a little harder. Since they will basically be banking MCO expansion on FLL/JFK profits only.
2) DL's performance at BOS continues to be awful and economy takes a bad turn. In this case, I think B6 will just push DL out. At some point DL will say enough is enough and give up routes they will always hemorrage money on like PIT/BUF/SFO/CLE/EWR/ORD/PHL. That will give B6 3 solidly profitable focus cities with BOS being extremely high margined. Then, they can build up MCO to really compete with WN. MCO will probably never be as profitable as FLL, but I think they can grow it to become as large as WN and be the primary international carrier there.
3) A downturn happens and B6 margin goes down so much that it faces a lot more buy out pressure and have to stop their BOS growth to protect margin.

I personally think 2) is most likely here, but i'm quite biased. A lot of people think 1) is likely, but imo that would rely on DL being willing to tolerate even worse margin at BOS than NYC (which is already a really low margined station for them). Some people seem to think B6 is doomed and 3) will be the outcome, but I think that's quite unlikely.

Other variable here is if JFK will loose slotting at some point. That could shift B6 expansion back to JFK. And there are other airlines that factor here too. If NK continues to do well at DTW and SY continues to add more daily routes out of MSP for example, that would decrease DL performance there. All quite unknowns.


It's really amazing how you keep coming on here and in all kinds of threats, you always post a bunch of routes and always say they are always massively bleeding money for Delta Air Lines.

Yet, they keep continue to flying them and keep posting excellent quarterly profit results.

So, I guess congratulations to Atlanta - Chattanooga for bringing in billions ever year. Keep up the good work, we're all counting on you, especially Dr. Rumack.

Maybe JetBlue can have the same luck someday? Boston-Chattanooga is waiting for you.




You can’t have good numbers and still take a hit in Boston?
They have super hubs in SLC ATL DTW MSP that print cash. They can certainly do well and have Boston performance lagging if it is while the other hubs make up for it. Just like JFK helps fund JetBlue’s growth in Bos or FLL while LGB drags down the system. Jetblue does not have the luxury of a fortress hub.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:07 am

stlgph wrote:
It's really amazing how you keep coming on here and in all kinds of threats, you always post a bunch of routes and always say they are always massively bleeding money for Delta Air Lines.

Yet, they keep continue to flying them and keep posting excellent quarterly profit results.

So, I guess congratulations to Atlanta - Chattanooga for bringing in billions ever year. Keep up the good work, we're all counting on you, especially Dr. Rumack.

Maybe JetBlue can have the same luck someday? Boston-Chattanooga is waiting for you.


Am I not allowed to post fare total and load factor of JetBlue routes on the JetBlue thread? If this is a problem, please contact moderator to censor me.

DL has more monopolies out of ATL/DTW/MSP/SLC than any other carrier. Their hub to hub routes out of these cities print money. On top of that, routes like DTW/MSP/ATL-SFO print money. They generate a higher margin out of these hubs than any legacy carrier hubs outside of AA at CLT. That gives them plenty of cushion to wage market share battles out of LAX/SEA/BOS/RDU. I would think that kind of stuff is pretty obvious.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:19 pm

a couple of nuggets from this week.

OJ is out on JFK-KIN. AA seems to be cutting JFK-CUN to once weekly. Both good news for B6's JFK to Carribean operation
WN is bringing back sat-only FLL-BDL/BUF for September extension, but still non-existent on the other routes they cut for the summer. It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that they bring all these routes back starting November, but B6 is still getting basically no-competition on BUF/PVD/ALB until November at least. And BDL/PHL will get one less competitor. Their FLL operation should do well in Q2/3 this year.

Also we have July's international T-100 numbers.
Carrier Flights Boarded Seats LF SeatPerFlight
JFKHAV
B6 61 7378 9150 80.63% 150
EWRHAV
UA 61 9039 10126 89.27% 166
FLLHAV
WN 124 19763 21700 91.07% 175
B6 117 14695 17550 83.73% 150
MIAHAV
AA 246 36361 39360 92.38% 160
DL 62 8258 9733 84.85% 157
MCOHAV
B6 62 5165 6300 81.98% 101.6
TPAHAV
WN 62 9565 10850 88.16% 175
FLLHOG
B6 62 4257 6200 68.66% 100
MIAHOG
AA 62 6927 7936 87.29% 128
FLLSNU
B6 62 4498 6300 71.40% 101.6
MIASNU
AA 62 8655 9920 87.25% 160
FLLCMW
B6 62 4594 6200 74.10% 100
MIACMW
YX 62 3964 4712 84.13% 76

Their July numbers look okay to Cuba, but it's still dramatically worse than their competitors in terms of LF. FLL to secondary airports is a disaster still. Since there is no limitations to those airports, it's a wonder why they still fly them.

FLLMEX
B6 124 16795 18600 90.30% 150
MCOMEX
4O 62 7893 9300 84.87% 150
B6 123 16983 18450 92.05% 150
AM 122 16906 19376 87.25% 158.8
Y4 30 4497 5364 83.84% 178.8

MEX markets did a lot better in July, which probably explains why they are sticking with twice daily.

JFKCUN
AA 60 9011 9600 93.86% 160
4O 78 8910 11700 76.15% 150
DL 151 24976 26711 93.50% 176.9
B6 184 27828 30650 90.79% 166.6
FLLCUN
WN 185 16740 26455 63.28% 143
B6 127 16292 19100 85.30% 150.4
NK 62 12486 14088 88.63% 227.2
MCOCUN
B6 69 9665 10350 93.38% 150
DL 28 4176 4650 89.81% 166.1
CUN numbers look mostly good. WN on FLL-CUN continues to be a disaster.

JFKSTI
DL 186 30598 33229 92.08% 178.7
B6 430 70212 79850 87.93% 185.7
JFKSDQ
DL 198 32682 35677 91.61% 180.2
B6 433 72903 83300 87.52% 192.4
EWRSTI
B6 59 8202 8850 92.68% 150
UA 62 9929 10292 96.47% 166
EWRSDQ
B6 61 8277 9150 90.46% 150
UA 61 10279 10919 94.14% 179
There seems to be unlimited demand on the NYC-DR market. Not a surprise they increased at EWR as well as JFK for this summer.

FLLBOG
B6 58 7964 8700 91.54% 150
NK 62 10312 11160 92.40% 180
AV 62 8663 9300 93.15% 150
FLLMDE
B6 62 8434 9300 90.69% 150
NK 44 7619 8016 95.05% 182.2
FLLCTG
B6 62 8595 9300 92.42% 150
NK 34 5362 6032 88.89% 177.4
FLLLIM
B6 62 8705 9300 93.60% 150
NK 62 8191 8990 91.11% 145
FLLSJO
WN 62 8279 8930 92.71% 144
B6 62 8525 9300 91.67% 150
NK 124 20822 23266 89.50% 187.6
FLLPAP
AA 114 14444 18240 79.19% 160
B6 174 20851 26122 79.82% 150.1
NK 60 9789 10800 90.64% 180
FLLNAS
WN 124 16703 17732 94.20% 143
B6 245 23501 28150 83.48% 114.9
UP 273 26766 32360 82.71% 118.5
FLLMBJ
BW 62 8710 9300 93.66% 150
WN 124 16671 17732 94.02% 143
B6 124 14009 15500 90.38% 125
NK 62 10378 11160 92.99% 180

Out of FLL, it looks mostly pretty strong numbers for every airline.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:35 pm

What is going on with jetBlue at PDX...?

Over the last year..........
PDX-LGB is down 1 frequency
PDX-BOS starts later, ends earlier
PDX-ANC starts later, ends earlier
PDX-JFK is down to just 3-4x weekly for most of the year.

They really don't like PDX... Gate C6 is vacant for almost all of the day (except for early morning and late at night). This gate could, and should be utilized more throughout the day by a different airline...
 
jbpdx
Posts: 742
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:42 pm

FA9295 wrote:
What is going on with jetBlue at PDX...?

Over the last year..........
PDX-LGB is down 1 frequency
PDX-BOS starts later, ends earlier
PDX-ANC starts later, ends earlier
PDX-JFK is down to just 3-4x weekly for most of the year.

They really don't like PDX... Gate C6 is vacant for almost all of the day (except for early morning and late at night). This gate could, and should be utilized more throughout the day by a different airline...


JetBlue drying up at PDX.
Dec 2018: 14,902
112 flights
Dec 2017: 24,035 -38.0%
182 flights

2018: 311,797
2017: 365,088 -14.6%
Major airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, RDU; +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5468
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:52 pm

Are gates in high demand in PDX?
 
nine4nine
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:57 pm

I noticed BOS-BUR gets scheduled at a much better time with a RON at BUR and early am return from BUR. The current red eye had a dismal schedule.

Current:
BOS-BUR DEP 1500 ARR 1832
BUR-BOS. DEP 2000 ARR 0428 (yikes)

New:
BOS-BUR DEP 1830 ARR 2200 (RON BUR)
BUR-BOS DEP 0700 ARR 1530
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88/90 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 Q400 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
doulasc
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:12 am

JetBlue does not seem to be in a expanding mode.They are pulling out of DAB and people said the flights were always almost full.Also they are dropping BWI-FLL/MCO.How is JetBlue doing at PHL for their routes to BOS and FLL.I would like JetBlue to give CMH another try.They also dropped a few routes from FLL.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2234
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:32 am

doulasc wrote:
JetBlue does not seem to be in a expanding mode.They are pulling out of DAB and people said the flights were always almost full.Also they are dropping BWI-FLL/MCO.How is JetBlue doing at PHL for their routes to BOS and FLL.I would like JetBlue to give CMH another try.They also dropped a few routes from FLL.


BOS

Flights, seats, pax, load.

1 290 29,300 21,306 72.72%
2 252 25,400 18,949 74.60%
3 261 26,340 20,814 79.02%
4 321 32,500 24,953 76.78%
5 338 34,000 27,144 79.84%
6 320 34,300 26,884 78.38%
7 307 30,800 25,427 82.56%
8 332 33,300 26,728 80.26%
9 317 31,700 24,656 77.78%
10 337 33,700 25,266 74.97%
YTD 3,075 311,340 242,127 77.77%

AA (Mainline) Comparison YTD
5,917 940,446 764,940 81.34%
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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NMSteve
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:14 am

I've never understood B6 at ABQ. For example, they are showing 3 flights a week for later this month. It arrives here at 11:00pm and leaves for JFK at midnight. Can't imagine it runs loaded, but the prices are really cheap, $225 to $375 RT.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:22 am

doulasc wrote:
JetBlue does not seem to be in a expanding mode.They are pulling out of DAB and people said the flights were always almost full.Also they are dropping BWI-FLL/MCO.How is JetBlue doing at PHL for their routes to BOS and FLL.I would like JetBlue to give CMH another try.They also dropped a few routes from FLL.


As per the recent earnings call, they don't have planes. Airbus is possibly delaying 7 of 13 A321NEOs they are supposed to receive this year. They are only receiving 1 in the first half of the year, which means they have no fleet slack in the peak summer flying season. And they have 5 A320s out at a time doing reconfiguration Next year on the hand, they should receive any of the delayed A321s plus 15 more.

NMSteve wrote:
I've never understood B6 at ABQ. For example, they are showing 3 flights a week for later this month. It arrives here at 11:00pm and leaves for JFK at midnight. Can't imagine it runs loaded, but the prices are really cheap, $225 to $375 RT.


Yes, B6 at both ABQ and RNO are odd ball stations. They don't do well in either. They probably break even at best during low fuel price season doing red-eye flying.

BTW, B6 schedule extension happened past summer month, so I took a look at which BOS routes got flights back in September.
CHS at 3 for June, at 2 for August and back to 3 for September.
CLE at 4 on MTFS for June, at 3 for August and back to 4 for 4 days a week (3 for other 3 days) for September
AUS at 1 for August and 2 for September
BNA at 3 for June, 2 for August and back to 3 for September
RSW at 4 for June, 2 for August and back to 4 for September
SAV at 2 for June, 1 for August and back to 2 for Sep

Looks like BNA-FLL remains at 1.5 per day after going up to that for June and then down to 1 for July/Aug.
Looks like they cut back a little at BDL for Sep/Oct.

So looks like the increased they put in for May/June that retreated for July/August came back in September.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:16 pm

Alright, the Q3 fare data is finally out. So I will post the mint stuff first as usual.

to start off NYC-LAX/SFO
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS SeatPerFlight LF Yield PRASM
JFKLAX 2475 AA 193821 580.49 595.79 326.36 94.32% 102.0 89.97% 536.04 0.2166
JFKLAX 2475 AS 112889 254.45 253.97 305.77 99.07% 151.8 86.68% 220.13 0.0889
JFKLAX 2475 B6 253217 346.26 346.53 294.55 99.48% 159.0 92.43% 320.29 0.1294
JFKLAX 2475 DL 305010 415.79 413.73 527.78 98.20% 213.5 91.59% 378.92 0.1531
EWRLAX 2454 AS 92220 266.15 266.02 274.93 98.53% 154.5 90.46% 240.64 0.0981
EWRLAX 2454 UA 339514 370.28 366.70 548.18 98.03% 174.6 95.06% 348.60 0.1421
JFKSFO 2586 AA 73716 543.11 557.71 346.87 93.08% 102.0 86.55% 482.70 0.1867
JFKSFO 2586 AS 94668 247.68 246.85 291.58 98.16% 152.9 87.08% 214.96 0.0831
JFKSFO 2586 B6 153349 326.95 327.05 306.09 99.52% 159.0 90.39% 295.62 0.1143
JFKSFO 2586 DL 211075 360.40 357.05 543.20 98.20% 186.8 89.33% 318.95 0.1233
EWRSFO 2565 AS 96584 243.78 243.10 294.31 98.67% 160.1 89.65% 217.95 0.0850
EWRSFO 2565 UA 450792 397.75 391.09 565.84 96.19% 202.3 93.18% 364.42 0.1421

A couple of things here. AS continues to struggle. The gap between B6 and AS exploded last quarter after VX merger was complete and it has stayed the same this quarter.
AA is really loosing any sort of edge on the premium transcon market. For a while there, it's yield was as much as 100% more than B6 on LAX and 90% more than B6 on SFO. They are both down to the 60s%. DL seems to have gained a lot on JFK-LAX at AA expense and so have B6. This is their best quarter in the past year on this 2 routes with respect to their competitors.

Other NYC routes.
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS SeatPerFlight LF Yield PRASM Vs B6
JFKSAN 2446 AA 62972 237.83 236.61 285.08 97.48% 160.0 86.69% 205.12 0.0839 78.29%
JFKSAN 2446 B6 52042 294.68 294.56 358.22 99.81% 159.0 88.94% 261.99 0.1071 100.00%
JFKSAN 2446 DL 91764 287.09 284.64 387.95 97.63% 177.2 87.19% 248.18 0.1015 94.73%
EWRSAN 2425 AS 26021 219.09 217.97 272.38 97.94% 169.6 84.28% 183.69 0.0758 N/A
EWRSAN 2425 UA 81080 332.47 326.99 411.12 93.49% 168.4 88.19% 288.37 0.1189 N/A
EWRSAN 2425 WN 24960 233.20 233.68 225.40 94.22% 163.4 84.84% 198.25 0.0818 N/A
JFKSEA 2422 AA 56503 248.32 246.37 338.26 97.88% 160.1 82.66% 203.65 0.0841 88.38%
JFKSEA 2422 AS 83808 241.52 240.57 296.03 98.29% 171.2 91.17% 219.33 0.0906 95.18%
JFKSEA 2422 B6 49539 257.87 257.39 352.83 99.49% 159.0 89.53% 230.44 0.0951 100.00%
JFKSEA 2422 DL 147760 296.56 293.40 453.13 98.02% 178.6 90.70% 266.11 0.1099 115.48%
JFKLAS 2248 AA 66976 238.45 234.21 272.75 88.99% 159.9 92.04% 215.58 0.0959 101.16%
JFKLAS 2248 AS 24904 190.89 189.75 250.71 98.13% 148.8 92.49% 175.49 0.0781 82.35%
JFKLAS 2248 B6 108041 233.41 233.21 321.01 99.77% 167.2 91.38% 213.11 0.0948 100.00%
JFKLAS 2248 DL 140725 257.70 256.17 441.14 99.17% 177.3 91.87% 235.35 0.1047 110.44%
Again, B6 doing very well on NYC-SAN vs competitor, althought it was weaker in absolute terms than JFK-SFO this quarter. Still very healthy market. They really made up a lot of ground on JFK-SEA. Now have a huge advantage over AA to both SEA/SAN. Their gap vs DL on JFK-SEA is at an all time low. It wasn't long ago, DL had a 60% RASM advantage over B6. Now, that's down to 15%. And the gap vs DL on JFK-LAS is down to 10%, which is also smallest I've seen since I've started tracking this.

As a whole, I think AA is in a lot of trouble in NYC. Their plan this past summer was to run 2 to 3x daily on SEA/SAN, which ended up with fare numbers that can't possibly pay for the high costs of AA flights. B6 made a lot of gains this summer. DL is doing pretty well. AS is out of its depth. I don't see how it stays on EWR-SAN.

Now out of BOS
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS SeatPerFlight LF Yield PRASM Vs B6
BOSSFO 2704 AS 61429 252.79 251.67 292.05 97.21% 150.7 86.35% 217.31 0.0804 80.04%
BOSSFO 2704 B6 119299 313.50 313.38 328.91 99.23% 159.0 86.64% 271.51 0.1004 100.00%
BOSSFO 2704 DL 46343 285.19 282.16 362.61 96.24% 168.4 87.67% 247.37 0.0915 91.11%
BOSSFO 2704 UA 212788 348.16 344.85 470.08 97.36% 171.4 91.89% 316.88 0.1172 116.71%
BOSLAX 2611 AA 156056 258.26 254.84 373.06 97.11% 172.1 83.86% 213.72 0.0819 83.30%
BOSLAX 2611 AS 58292 224.49 223.00 359.47 98.90% 153.3 83.23% 185.60 0.0711 72.34%
BOSLAX 2611 B6 103427 287.55 287.16 369.04 99.52% 159.0 89.35% 256.58 0.0983 100.00%
BOSLAX 2611 DL 73457 285.67 279.82 412.21 95.58% 166.4 89.00% 249.03 0.0954 97.06%
BOSLAX 2611 UA 81639 256.53 254.60 290.70 94.66% 178.5 87.11% 221.80 0.0849 86.44%
BOSSAN 2588 AS 26494 286.54 285.66 323.33 97.66% 160.7 89.63% 256.03 0.0989 83.81%
BOSSAN 2588 B6 52753 338.04 338.82 280.03 98.68% 159.0 90.16% 305.47 0.1180 100.00%
BOSSEA 2496 AS 86652 291.73 290.57 340.80 97.69% 175.2 89.94% 261.34 0.1047 108.96%
BOSSEA 2496 B6 66177 273.09 273.10 269.25 99.69% 159.0 87.83% 239.86 0.0961 100.00%
BOSSEA 2496 DL 69647 277.27 273.66 333.19 93.93% 160.0 92.79% 253.93 0.1017 105.87%
Again, very similar numbers to last quarter. All the yields are higher due to being summer season. DL seems to be doing better on BOS-SFO this quarter, but they are giving up D1 on this in Q4, which is probably wise. AA desperately needs to try something new on BOS-LAX, which is bleeding money. SEA is a struggle still, but they've made up some ground with AS/DL.

out of South Florida
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS SeatPerFlight LF Yield PRASM Vs B6
FLLLAX 2343 AS 22288 224.19 223.64 386.12 99.66% 142.9 85.70% 191.65 0.0818 68.49%
FLLLAX 2343 B6 52601 311.18 311.25 294.51 99.56% 159.0 89.90% 279.81 0.1194 100.00%
FLLLAX 2343 NK 30223 107.68 106.88 140.00 97.60% 180.0 91.25% 97.53 0.0416 34.86%
MIALAX 2342 AA 248862 276.97 274.10 362.44 96.75% 188.6 90.33% 247.59 0.1057 88.53%
MIALAX 2342 DL 11999 271.67 267.02 279.76 63.49% 160.0 92.58% 247.22 0.1056 88.44%
FLLSFO 2584 B6 52066 274.18 274.17 276.02 99.29% 159.0 89.23% 244.63 0.0947 100.00%
FLLSFO 2584 UA 26700 234.43 230.94 261.27 88.50% 165.9 87.47% 202.00 0.0782 82.57%
MIASFO 2585 AA 116481 256.84 254.47 310.90 95.80% 184.9 86.04% 218.95 0.0847 89.44%
MIASFO 2585 UA 21556 264.16 250.44 491.17 94.30% 146.1 81.06% 202.99 0.0785 82.89%
Again, they are doing really well out of FLL against Legacy competition. Q3 is not a great quarter for transcon out of FLL, but they have been expanding in RASM vs legacies. They've pushed DL off MIA-LAX for 2019 and UA has also just given up on MIA-SFO. Not really sure why UA quit on MIA-SFO rather than FLL-SFO, since they've generally done better out of MIA.

On the whole, this is a pretty good quarter for mint routes. Based on how FLL routes have improved over the course of 2 years, I think they will continued to gain on routes without premium competition like BOS-SEA.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:07 pm

I noticed today while just looking through twitter that someone who apparently works for JetBlue in the west coast visited SFO terminal 1 construction area. Looks like B6 is moving into the T1 later this year. No idea how many gates they will have.

Anyhow yield data on the various new domestic routes they've launched recently or they added major capacity to.
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS SeatPerFlight LF Yield PRASM Vs B6
BOSATL 0946 B6 104258 109.63 109.42 241.28 99.84% 151.8 79.94% 87.47 0.0925 100.00%
BOSATL 0946 DL 372120 151.39 149.27 327.98 98.82% 188.7 91.26% 136.22 0.1440 155.74%
BOSATL 0946 NK 019391 60.57 60.40 73.61 98.71% 145.5 88.28% 53.32 0.0564 60.96%
BOSATL 0946 WN 054318 113.28 112.51 153.14 98.09% 154.1 80.68% 90.77 0.0960 103.78%
Again, pretty big bloodbath here. Just as a point of reference, DL's fare was $262 in 2016 Q3. If we say that half of those DL boarded these flights are on direct itinerary, then B6 entrance cost them about $20 million this quarter on BOS-ATL itinerary alone.

BOSMSP 1124 B6 085279 130.91 130.91 00.00 100.00% 150.1 84.94% 111.19 0.0989 100.00%
BOSMSP 1124 DL 165246 186.02 183.42 412.29 98.86% 174.9 92.61% 169.86 0.1511 152.76%
BOSMSP 1124 NK 016605 53.34 52.52 95.55 98.10% 145.8 90.37% 47.46 0.0422 42.68%
BOSMSP 1124 SY 042626 109.90 109.90 00.00 100.00% 153.4 87.65% 96.33 0.0857 86.63%
First full quarter on BOS-MSP. Shows how much things have changed here since B6 entrance. Not a surprised SY is bailing based on the fare numbers. DL fare was at $312 in 2016 Q3. Using the same assumption as above, DL lost about $10.5 million this quarter due to B6 entrance. Imo, this along with impact on BOS-LGA and JFK-ATL are big parts why DL is going after B6.

BOSORD 0867 AA 256525 165.97 163.69 313.72 98.48% 163.5 88.55% 144.95 0.1672 117.11%
BOSORD 0867 B6 085844 144.38 144.08 239.88 99.69% 119.2 85.91% 123.78 0.1428 100.00%
BOSORD 0867 NK 29896 45.68 45.55 72.5 99.52% 180.0 91.76% 41.8 0.0482 33.77%
BOSORD 0867 UA 231671 182.08 180.45 302.08 98.66% 169.1 90.72% 163.70 0.1888 132.25%
JFKORD 0740 9E 028894 198.31 197.52 685.00 99.84% 075.9 91.52% 180.77 0.2443 127.37%
JFKORD 0740 AA 026624 169.48 170.97 164.55 76.75% 159.7 91.61% 156.63 0.2117 110.35%
JFKORD 0740 B6 051562 161.94 160.89 391.00 99.55% 120.8 88.22% 141.93 0.1918 100.00%
JFKORD 0740 OO 026711 196.27 195.50 242.82 98.37% 070.2 88.32% 172.67 0.2333 121.66%
You will remember that they made a major tweak last year to have a business schedule on BOS-ORD while reducing JFK-ORD to three daily since they have only one gate there. The first quarter with this change seems to have gone okay. Their BOS yield numbers came down a little bit. JFK yields look great considering that they are running A320s here almost half of the time. That's better than a lot of their Florida yield, although those are mostly on A320/A321s.

FLLATL 0581 B6 045441 122.24 122.24 00.00 100.00% 150.3 83.27% 101.79 0.1752 100.00%
FLLATL 0581 DL 381874 145.85 145.82 364.15 99.98% 182.6 87.98% 128.29 0.2208 126.03%
FLLATL 0581 NK 120563 47.94 47.91 63.62 99.84% 172.5 87.46% 41.9 0.0721 41.17%
FLLATL 0581 WN 110003 124.94 124.95 124.82 96.05% 149.7 88.32% 110.36 0.1900 108.42%
These are not bad numbers considering they are running A320s here. I would imagine they are supporting a lot of this with connections. Probably should add a third flight to be more competitive with WN in schedule.

FLLSLC 2084 B6 023773 156.77 156.74 174.37 99.85% 150.0 86.13% 135.01 0.0648 100.00%
FLLSLC 2084 DL 030752 226.61 208.69 311.27 82.52% 186.6 91.03% 189.97 0.0912 140.72%
Seems like a generally low yielding quarter on this route.

MCOATL 0404 B6 021779 76.40 76.39 94.71 99.94% 150.0 78.91% 60.28 0.1492 100.00%
MCOATL 0404 DL 503821 164.41 164.11 405.56 99.88% 197.2 88.77% 145.68 0.3606 241.67%
MCOATL 0404 F9 36573 34.61 34.61 0.000 100.00% 229.0 86.81% 30.04 0.0744 49.84%
MCOATL 0404 NK 47149 32.91 32.87 143.0 99.97% 163.2 80.92% 26.60 0.0658 44.13%
MCOATL 0404 WN 123685 118.13 117.95 172.82 99.68% 148.7 81.64% 96.29 0.2383 159.74%
Another very competitive route. I think they are always going to have a struggle here if they keep this going.

BOSSYR 0265 B6 013637 111.50 107.92 195.58 95.91% 100.0 74.52% 80.42 0.3035 100.00%
BOSSYR 0265 MQ 005221 128.80 128.82 122.24 99.76% 044.0 85.98% 110.77 0.4180 137.74%
I can't see AA last much longer on this and ROC. These are just not sustainable yields for 44 seat aircraft. They've already given on PIT which had similar yields.

JFKONT 2429 B6 006744 170.46 170.46 00.00 100.00% 150.0 86.46% 147.38 0.0607 100.00%
BOSBUR 2601 B6 003940 162.20 157.84 259.95 95.73% 154.0 51.17% 80.77 0.0311 100.00%
Keep in mind that these 2 routes started in September after summer season and they had massive discount to promote the flights. All things considered, JFK-ONT looks pretty good even given the extreme late departure out of ONT. That's really good LF. BOS-BUR on the other hand did not start off well to no one's surprise seeing that they land before 5 am at BOS. It's no wonder they are retiming the flight and reducing BOS-LGB down to once a day. The original plan is not working out too great.

JFKORH 0150 B6 006884 78.30 78.30 00.00 100.00% 100.0 40.02% 31.34 0.2089 100.00%
yeah, these are not good numbers.

JFKATL 0760 B6 044811 161.43 160.18 289.42 99.03% 150.8 83.45% 133.66 0.1759 100.00%
JFKATL 0760 DL 214697 204.27 202.55 368.16 98.96% 172.8 87.27% 176.76 0.2326 132.25%
Again, another good quarter here on JFK-ATL. Easily their best performing route out of DL fortress hubs. DL numbers are down from $225 in 2016 Q3. And they outperformed both AA (considering AA is flying regionals and E90s here) and WN out of LGA
LGAATL 0762 AA 026122 181.98 181.35 191.43 93.80% 099.2 77.02% 139.68 0.1833 N/A
LGAATL 0762 DL 429421 218.52 215.91 397.19 98.56% 175.5 88.71% 191.53 0.2514 N/A
LGAATL 0762 F9 029865 104.31 104.31 00.00 100.00% 183.0 91.67% 95.61 0.1255 N/A
LGAATL 0762 WN 107759 142.51 142.23 186.39 99.36% 151.6 83.80% 119.19 0.1564 N/A
LGAATL 0762 YX 033062 198.74 196.03 331.78 98.01% 076.0 73.24% 143.57 0.1884 N/A

I will do rant here again on their JFK efforts. Outside of winter time, they pretty much can't loose money with anything greater than 500 miles out of JFK on a leisure schedule. ATL is a major success right off the bat. They do great to all the within-perimeter major legacy fortress hubs like CLT, ATL, HOU, DEN and ORD. (I will post more JFK numbers later, but surprisingly a very quarter for them vs their major competitors.) I understand that the Caribbean stuff probably makes more money in summer time, but there is no reason to keep routes like RNO, ABQ and BTV open when they still don't fly to MSP and DFW. And there is no excuse to only running twice a day on JFK-ORD this summer because they are out of aircraft.

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