EK77WNH wrote:

DolphinAir747 wrote:

Are these the only announcements from B6 today or are there also some more additions/cuts to come?

Last week at this time, we were told by certain 'in-the-know' folks that a tsunami was going to hit. And, apparently, it's just switching from HOU to IAH

Most in the know people on this site know nothing and usually post rumors as facts. Certain individuals
have some good insight, but many make things up, go by crew rumors or simply want to stir the pot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EK77WNH wrote:

DolphinAir747 wrote:

Are these the only announcements from B6 today or are there also some more additions/cuts to come?

Last week at this time, we were told by certain 'in-the-know' folks that a tsunami was going to hit. And, apparently, it's just switching from HOU to IAH

Brickell305 wrote:

EK77WNH wrote:

DolphinAir747 wrote:

Are these the only announcements from B6 today or are there also some more additions/cuts to come?

Last week at this time, we were told by certain 'in-the-know' folks that a tsunami was going to hit. And, apparently, it's just switching from HOU to IAH

Apparently the upcoming cuts were announced in an internal memo. They weren’t just made up. It could just be that B6 isn’t giving a press release on its cuts. Maybe it will come later.

FWIW JFK-CLT nonstop is no longer bookable after 10/26.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

FWIW JFK-CLT nonstop is no longer bookable after 10/26.

Good catch. I definitely still see JFK-ABQ/RNO/ATL/SAV and other routes that were rumored to definitely be cut.

Not sure if they will have a press release, but what I've seen so far looks legit. JFK-CLT is gone, BOS-CLT is boosted, ANC/LRM is gone. There are a few other tidbit, but I'm waiting for the announcement to come out. If not, then OAG thread.

They also, cut MEX for FLL/MCO down to once daily.

tphuang wrote:

Not sure if they will have a press release, but what I've seen so far looks legit. JFK-CLT is gone, BOS-CLT is boosted, ANC/LRM is gone. There are a few other tidbit, but I'm waiting for the announcement to come out. If not, then OAG thread.

They also, cut MEX for FLL/MCO down to once daily.

DCA-JAX/CHS are gone form the schedule too. Is ANC gone for good? I thought it's always summer-only. And JFK-LRM is still in the schedule.

Dieuwer wrote:

Why would anyone from NYC fly to IAH via BOS??? There are already plenty of non-stop options from EWR/LGA to IAH/HOU.

I don't think most people would, but you will get some customers who are highly brand-loyal for any number of reasons. With the termination of JFK-CLT, a connection at BOS will be the only option for NYC-CLT on B6. And with JFK-Houston only being once-daily, it's even more difficult to be competitive if you can't offer another schedule choice via your other hub.

chepos wrote:

EK77WNH wrote:

DolphinAir747 wrote:

Are these the only announcements from B6 today or are there also some more additions/cuts to come?

Last week at this time, we were told by certain 'in-the-know' folks that a tsunami was going to hit. And, apparently, it's just switching from HOU to IAH

Most in the know people on this site know nothing and usually post rumors as facts. Certain individuals
have some good insight, but many make things up, go by crew rumors or simply want to stir the pot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw the post before it was taken down, it wasn't a tsunami at all, the items published today were on that post, the rest of it were the cuts and realignments and those have not been published, CLT was definitely part of it, plus an adjustment to a station in the Caribbean, can't remember which one, and if I recall, there was mention of a potential city closure, a realignment of the network around that along with some shuffling elsewhere to focus on BOS. I did remember some of the specifics, but as my 47 year old brain is getting a bit foggy and it was a couple of weeks ago now, I don't want to mention them further and get them wrong, especially when B6 themselves have not published them.

JFK-IAH will definitely be successful. Remember Houston is MUCH more international with international businesses supporting the Oil&Gas and high tech industries (including nearby Austin). JFK-IAH will be like JFK-AUS, a great feeder for international connections.

x1234 wrote:

JFK-IAH will definitely be successful. Remember Houston is MUCH more international with international businesses supporting the Oil&Gas and high tech industries (including nearby Austin). JFK-IAH will be like JFK-AUS, a great feeder for international connections.

Why will IAH-JFK do better than HOU-JFK did in this role? Moreover, a departure time of 1 PM from JFK is more or less useless for connections from international arrivals at JFK. And why would someone fly IAH-JFK-DXB-XXX when they could simply fly IAH-DXB-XXX?

x1234 wrote:

JFK-IAH will definitely be successful. Remember Houston is MUCH more international with international businesses supporting the Oil&Gas and high tech industries (including nearby Austin). JFK-IAH will be like JFK-AUS, a great feeder for international connections.

International connections to where?? It's very out-of-the-way for anywhere in the Caribbean especially with all the nonstop Caribbean flights out of IAH/HOU or via Florida. As for London, that's far in the future, and I hardly see this competing with UA and BA's multiple daily nonstops.

This is all about local New York/Boston demand. I'm not sure why people are so focused on connections for an airline that flies 90-95% local traffic.

DolphinAir747 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Not sure if they will have a press release, but what I've seen so far looks legit. JFK-CLT is gone, BOS-CLT is boosted, ANC/LRM is gone. There are a few other tidbit, but I'm waiting for the announcement to come out. If not, then OAG thread.

They also, cut MEX for FLL/MCO down to once daily.

DCA-JAX/CHS are gone form the schedule too. Is ANC gone for good? I thought it's always summer-only. And JFK-LRM is still in the schedule.

right JAX/CHS slots are going to FLL/PBI/RSW. ANC gone for good. I would imagine JFK-LRM should disappear soon.

ScottB wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Why would anyone from NYC fly to IAH via BOS??? There are already plenty of non-stop options from EWR/LGA to IAH/HOU.

I don't think most people would, but you will get some customers who are highly brand-loyal for any number of reasons. With the termination of JFK-CLT, a connection at BOS will be the only option for NYC-CLT on B6. And with JFK-Houston only being once-daily, it's even more difficult to be competitive if you can't offer another schedule choice via your other hub.

They should worry about adding another flight in that case rather than changing existing flight to work better for connection. The flight time for BOS-IAH on its own looks okay to me. And for JFK-IAH, I assume it's the same schedule they've had for years. It's not like they have a bunch of slots lying around.

As for why IAH would do better than HOU, the numbers I posted show that IAH flights are higher yielding in general. More people in NYC going to Houston would search for the primary airport IAH. I doubt B6 is winning over many houston residents with their 2 daily flights.

x1234 wrote:

JFK-IAH will definitely be successful. Remember Houston is MUCH more international with international businesses supporting the Oil&Gas and high tech industries (including nearby Austin). JFK-IAH will be like JFK-AUS, a great feeder for international connections.

People in Houston have no reason to go to NY to make a connection. They have many other, better options...

tphuang wrote:

DolphinAir747 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Not sure if they will have a press release, but what I've seen so far looks legit. JFK-CLT is gone, BOS-CLT is boosted, ANC/LRM is gone. There are a few other tidbit, but I'm waiting for the announcement to come out. If not, then OAG thread.

They also, cut MEX for FLL/MCO down to once daily.

DCA-JAX/CHS are gone form the schedule too. Is ANC gone for good? I thought it's always summer-only. And JFK-LRM is still in the schedule.

right JAX/CHS slots are going to FLL/PBI/RSW. ANC gone for good. I would imagine JFK-LRM should disappear soon.

ScottB wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Why would anyone from NYC fly to IAH via BOS??? There are already plenty of non-stop options from EWR/LGA to IAH/HOU.

I don't think most people would, but you will get some customers who are highly brand-loyal for any number of reasons. With the termination of JFK-CLT, a connection at BOS will be the only option for NYC-CLT on B6. And with JFK-Houston only being once-daily, it's even more difficult to be competitive if you can't offer another schedule choice via your other hub.

They should worry about adding another flight in that case rather than changing existing flight to work better for connection. The flight time for BOS-IAH on its own looks okay to me. And for JFK-IAH, I assume it's the same schedule they've had for years. It's not like they have a bunch of slots lying around.

As for why IAH would do better than HOU, the numbers I posted show that IAH flights are higher yielding in general. More people in NYC going to Houston would search for the primary airport IAH. I doubt B6 is winning over many houston residents with their 2 daily flights.

Wondering where you're seeing the additional BOS-CLT and DCA-FLL/PBI/RSW flights? I'm not seeing them loaded on jetblue.com yet (although I see JFK-SJO/IAH, and the elimination of JFK-CLT/DCA-CHS/JAX).

It seems like B6 is leaving point-to-point alone except when it comes to PBI/RSW (both of which B6 is very strong in). The only other PTP's I can think of are BDL-TPA, BUF-LAX, and HPN-TPA.

Regarding IAH, from what I understand the airport is closer to the growing northern suburbs and business community. Somehow HOU - the downtown airport - is just not as desirable (although competing with WN probably has something to do with this switch).

B6 traded the beast WN at HOU for the beast at IAH, UA. I recall most airlines having difficulty making JFK-IAH work for long.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

DolphinAir747 wrote:

DCA-JAX/CHS are gone form the schedule too. Is ANC gone for good? I thought it's always summer-only. And JFK-LRM is still in the schedule.

right JAX/CHS slots are going to FLL/PBI/RSW. ANC gone for good. I would imagine JFK-LRM should disappear soon.

ScottB wrote:

I don't think most people would, but you will get some customers who are highly brand-loyal for any number of reasons. With the termination of JFK-CLT, a connection at BOS will be the only option for NYC-CLT on B6. And with JFK-Houston only being once-daily, it's even more difficult to be competitive if you can't offer another schedule choice via your other hub.

They should worry about adding another flight in that case rather than changing existing flight to work better for connection. The flight time for BOS-IAH on its own looks okay to me. And for JFK-IAH, I assume it's the same schedule they've had for years. It's not like they have a bunch of slots lying around.

As for why IAH would do better than HOU, the numbers I posted show that IAH flights are higher yielding in general. More people in NYC going to Houston would search for the primary airport IAH. I doubt B6 is winning over many houston residents with their 2 daily flights.

Wondering where you're seeing the additional BOS-CLT and DCA-FLL/PBI/RSW flights? I'm not seeing them loaded on jetblue.com yet (although I see JFK-SJO/IAH, and the elimination of JFK-CLT/DCA-CHS/JAX).

It seems like B6 is leaving point-to-point alone except when it comes to PBI/RSW (both of which B6 is very strong in). The only other PTP's I can think of are BDL-TPA, BUF-LAX, and HPN-TPA.

Regarding IAH, from what I understand the airport is closer to the growing northern suburbs and business community. Somehow HOU - the downtown airport - is just not as desirable (although competing with WN probably has something to do with this switch).

I got shared some internal release of this.

Looks like JFK ptp news is out.

These are the cuts:

*ANC will no longer operate after summer 2019.
*LRM will close right after New Year's.
*Hobby operations will transfer to George Bush.
*Charlotte-JFK frequencies will transfer to Charlotte-Boston.
*DCA to Charleston and Jacksonville discontinued. One more flight each to FLL, PBI, RSW and BOS.
*Orlando-Bogota will not operate most of the year. It will only fly during absolute peak period (e.g. Christmas, July/August summer vacation)

tphuang wrote:

As for why IAH would do better than HOU, the numbers I posted show that IAH flights are higher yielding in general. More people in NYC going to Houston would search for the primary airport IAH. I doubt B6 is winning over many houston residents with their 2 daily flights.

Fares at IAH are higher because it is a fortress hub for UA with indirect competition from HOU. It's not because IAH is a more desirable airport; it is because UA is able to charge a premium in markets where they offer more desirable schedules than the competition.

ScottB wrote:

tphuang wrote:

As for why IAH would do better than HOU, the numbers I posted show that IAH flights are higher yielding in general. More people in NYC going to Houston would search for the primary airport IAH. I doubt B6 is winning over many houston residents with their 2 daily flights.

Fares at IAH are higher because it is a fortress hub for UA with indirect competition from HOU. It's not because IAH is a more desirable airport; it is because UA is able to charge a premium in markets where they offer more desirable schedules than the competition.

Based on their performance to similar markets like DFW and den, I really don't see how they would not improve here. I see this like dc situation, where bwi is far and away the lowest yielding airport from Boston to DC area. Wn really keeps an airport fare down.

BOS hou fares are just so low.

tphuang wrote:

Based on their performance to similar markets like DFW and den, I really don't see how they would not improve here. I see this like dc situation, where bwi is far and away the lowest yielding airport from Boston to DC area. Wn really keeps an airport fare down.

BOS hou fares are just so low.

Their yields are a bit better (10%) to DFW but undoubtedly that's due in part to a better schedule, as well as the market to DFW/DAL being about 50% larger than BOS-IAH/HOU. I still think they'll have to discount aggressively against UA's superior schedule.

ScottB wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Based on their performance to similar markets like DFW and den, I really don't see how they would not improve here. I see this like dc situation, where bwi is far and away the lowest yielding airport from Boston to DC area. Wn really keeps an airport fare down.

BOS hou fares are just so low.

Their yields are a bit better (10%) to DFW but undoubtedly that's due in part to a better schedule, as well as the market to DFW/DAL being about 50% larger than BOS-IAH/HOU. I still think they'll have to discount aggressively against UA's superior schedule.

Aa and ua yields are basically the same. I would consider aa at DFW to be a stronger hub. They get a little better than 2/3 aa yield at DFW. If they get 2/3 the yield of ua at iah, they would do about 10% better than at hou. There is basically no route out of Bo's where they have been operating for a while and getting less than 2/3 yield of dominant carrier.

Using another example, as at DFW does a lot better to sea and Portland than at dal. Wn dominated secondary airports just have lower yields.

MAH4546 wrote:

These are the cuts:

*ANC will no longer operate after summer 2019.
*LRM will close right after New Year's.
*Hobby operations will transfer to George Bush.
*Charlotte-JFK frequencies will transfer to Charlotte-Boston.
*DCA to Charleston and Jacksonville discontinued. One more flight each to FLL, PBI, RSW and BOS.
*Orlando-Bogota will not operate most of the year. It will only fly during absolute peak period (e.g. Christmas, July/August summer vacation)

Thanks!

Looks like DCA-BOS will go up to 15x. Wow.

The reduction on MCO-BOG doesn’t seem to bode well for B6’s planned/eventual MCO expansion once they move into the new terminal.

Ok don’t start with the MCO EXPANDING crap. B6 will be expanding mco ounce the new terminal is built. They currently are at capacity at mco. B6 is not investing more flights and routes until new terminal is done.

On MCO, my personal view is that its not going to start anytime soon. BOS is getting all the resources for the next couple of years. FLL has even being sort of paused until then. JFK is getting a lot of new long range adds in replace of E90 frequencies in order to "expand", because that's where they will find the highest margin routes. When 2021 comes around, all the new aircraft A220 and A321LR are going to BOS or JFK. What's going to FLL/MCO? Probably the A320s. Their performance at MCO has been weakening for a while now as they've stayed stagnant.

Since JetBlue going with an all-BOS expansion plan at the moment, good to take a look at where else they need to add. After adding 2 more flights to CLT and one more flight to DCA, they are getting close to 180 daily flights for fall season and 190 flights for the peak time in March/April.

VS4Ever, do you know what their current gate situation is? They had announced last year they are getting 6 more gates on top of the 24 they already had (2 of which gets used by EI/TP in the afternoon and 1 get used most of the day by 9K). I'm under the impression they use E1 and possibly E3/4 quite liberally. What about the old C40 to 42 and the other gate they are getting out of B & C connector? When do they get those?

Looking recently on flightstats, seems like their OTP has been better than average for BOS this month. Maybe their OTP initiative there are making some progress. Given that they probably don't want to hurt their OTP by running those gates too hard, I would imagine the next major round of adds won't start until they get more gates.

Assuming they only have E1 out of the 6 new gates they got from BOS, then they basically have 22 gates for full use + 5 more gates (including E3/E4) they use for part of the day. If they do 8 turns a day per gate and on average half that for the other 5 gates, they'd max out at 195 to 200 flights a day. So they can only add 5 to 10 more flights before they are completely maxed out before the new gates arrive.

tphuang wrote:

What about the old C40 to 42 and the other gate they are getting out of B & C connector? When do they get those?

They haven't even begun any construction on that stretch yet --- and I don't know if that work is going to start before this fall, when the whole realignment of the ridesharing vehicles moves to inside the Central Parking Garage.

The grand plan from Massport -- as I understand it -- was to move ridesharing vehicles -- then start construction on all the Terminal B/C outside ramp work -- which includes the demolition of the old control tower -- that will allow them to expand that C40 - C42 gate area -- and connect it with the previous gates.

I suppose -- if they really wanted to -- they could come up with some makeshift scenario. But just as Delta is struggling to kick Southwest out of A, I suspect JetBlue will struggle to get access to those extra gates from Alaska/Sun Country in a timely fashion.

Looking at the morning schedule looks like they use C6 (E2) for a 0630 departure C5 (E3) for a 645 departure C7 (E1) 825 departure. C5 (E3) is also used as a split use gate where 924 STI comes in at 0723 and goes out at 865 RSW at 0948. C6 (E2) has a 0851 departure. Doesn't look like those terminal E are used much in the afternoon for departures.

tphuang wrote:

VS4Ever, do you know what their current gate situation is? They had announced last year they are getting 6 more gates on top of the 24 they already had (2 of which gets used by EI/TP in the afternoon and 1 get used most of the day by 9K). I'm under the impression they use E1 and possibly E3/4 quite liberally. What about the old C40 to 42 and the other gate they are getting out of B & C connector? When do they get those?


Assuming they only have E1 out of the 6 new gates they got from BOS, then they basically have 22 gates for full use + 5 more gates (including E3/E4) they use for part of the day. If they do 8 turns a day per gate and on average half that for the other 5 gates, they'd max out at 195 to 200 flights a day. So they can only add 5 to 10 more flights before they are completely maxed out before the new gates arrive.

So the rule of thumb is they will end up with 30, 24 existing, 3 from c40-c42, 2 new gates on the b to c connector build project 1 on the connector and another at c20a or in that area. That’s 29, 30 comes from the preferential treatment of using E1.
Now the fun begins. E1-E3 are numbered as C5-C7 for B6 (so much so even the pilots are getting confused as to which version to use) and they have double screens at the departure gates for each option. E for a foreign carrier or DL or C for B6
They only really get to use those in the morning fully because of the lack of international arrivals and departures at that time. However they do have a couple of evening arrivals that require E because of lack of preclearance.

When I was in that section taking a B6!flight to SJU, I noted that the aircraft we were flying on was actually towed over from E4, so they may even be using that gate on occasion for arrivals at the very least
C17 gets used by TP, C20 and C21 by EI and 9K gets full use of C27 apart from a RON by B6 after 9K are done for the day. Right.now of course SY and AS are using the C40-C42 gates. All the current expansion by B6 will be w

Hope that clarifies.

DL is not struggling to kick Southwest out of A - Massport is not done with their modifications to terminal B yet. Those should be done by late August and Southwest will move over.

The terminal B to C connector is slated to start construction in October and be completed by October 2021. The renders look great and it will be another nice upgrade Massport has done at Logan. The first phase of the terminal E expansion is not going to be done until Q1 2022.

I will be THAT guy on this thread:

-Whenever I flew CLT, it was full

-Whenever I non revved to CLT, I was in the JS

-Whenever I purchased a ticket to avoid JS, JFK CLT was more expensive than BOS CLT

If they werent making money on this route, they were doing something very wrong


One other thing to note: when they cancelled flights for bad wx, CLT (with its 4 flights) was always on the list...which makes them unreliable

Alright, so we have
JFK-CLT cut - really hurts since they were actually making money!
BOS-CLT boosted - that's good
Move to IAH from HOU - good for BOS, not sure about JFK. Has potential to be rewarding, not much downside.
ANC/LRM cut - no big deal imo.
PUJ boosted a little - not sure why given all the DR issues right now
LGB-SEA/PDX retimed - probably a good thing to make LGB flights work
JFK-SJO - another VFR destination added. Surprised this came before GEO/SAL/GUA
JFK-PTP - seems like a last minute add with incentives. Good way to use slots in winter time
MCO-BOG reduction - not great, not a good sign for MCO expansion

Probably the biggest news imo is what's happening at DCA. They have basically given up on the pretense of a focus city there. So in the past year, they have.
- Cut IAD completely
- Cut BWI-FLL/MCO
- Cut DCA-JAX/TPA/CHS/BDL
DCA now becomes a major out station for them servicing their focus cities.

Given that's the case, I really think they should explore if they can trade a couple of these slots for LGA slots (assuming more LGA slots won't be made available). I think they can make up to 5 slots available (the ones from the cuts today + 1 from BOS). They can probably get the best deal from AA, but not sure DOT will allow that. Given that DCA slots are more valuable, I think they should only make trade if they can get close to 2 LGA slots back for each DCA slot. Seems to me UA/WN/F9 are all possible trade targets. If they can get a good trade, they will be able to run a more competitive BOS schedule, add back the cut FLL/MCO flights and also have a 5x daily schedule to ORD.

tphuang wrote:

Alright, so we have
JFK-CLT cut - really hurts since they were actually making money!
BOS-CLT boosted - that's good
Move to IAH from HOU - good for BOS, not sure about JFK. Has potential to be rewarding, not much downside.
ANC/LRM cut - no big deal imo.
PUJ boosted a little - not sure why given all the DR issues right now
LGB-SEA/PDX retimed - probably a good thing to make LGB flights work
JFK-SJO - another VFR destination added. Surprised this came before GEO/SAL/GUA
JFK-PTP - seems like a last minute add with incentives. Good way to use slots in winter time
MCO-BOG reduction - not great, not a good sign for MCO expansion

Probably the biggest news imo is what's happening at DCA. They have basically given up on the pretense of a focus city there. So in the past year, they have.
- Cut IAD completely
- Cut BWI-FLL/MCO
- Cut DCA-JAX/TPA/CHS/BDL
DCA now becomes a major out station for them servicing their focus cities.

Given that's the case, I really think they should explore if they can trade a couple of these slots for LGA slots (assuming more LGA slots won't be made available). I think they can make up to 5 slots available (the ones from the cuts today + 1 from BOS). They can probably get the best deal from AA, but not sure DOT will allow that. Given that DCA slots are more valuable, I think they should only make trade if they can get close to 2 LGA slots back for each DCA slot. Seems to me UA/WN/F9 are all possible trade targets. If they can get a good trade, they will be able to run a more competitive BOS schedule, add back the cut FLL/MCO flights and also have a 5x daily schedule to ORD.

I’m not sure I would consider SJO a purely VFR route, it certainly is a very different route when compared to GEO/SALetc. SJO is a mix of US tourist and some VFR travel. Costa Rica is a very popular destination with US based tourist. While there is a Costa Rican diaspora in the US, VFR travel alone is not what drives the abundance of flights from the US to SJO, LIR is entirely almost all Leisure.


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Overall some smart changes. B6 is ending flights in places where they were irrelevant and not making money, and instead focusing resources on the markets where they are strong and make money. Were they really going to be competitive on SEA/PDX-ANC with 1 daily seasonal flight versus AS' 40 or whatever daily flights? Or JFK-CLT versus AA?

Alright, given that it seems like they are close to being gate constrained in March/April, I will assume not too many more adds in the coming month or waiting until start of May for new routes out of BOS. Seems like the largest wave of adds will come toward the end of 2020 and beginning 2021, coinciding with the European entrance and arrival of A220 and the expansion of terminal E.

Seems like A220 replacing E90 will represent a large increase in passengers. Will Terminal C be expanded to handle all that traffic?

Just taking a look at markets out of BOS and where they could still add to complete their build out. Let's assume we are currently at close to 180 flights by end of October.

NYC - currently 7x EWR, 6x JFK, 6xLGA - I think the growth here will be upgauging JFK. Those will be among earlier routes to get A220s, possibly as an additional rotation after transcon R/T. EWR could add more flights to have better schedule vs UA and especially differentiate from DL (which is at 4x daily). If they can get more LGA slots, they really need more in order to have a better schedule. It's severely lacking.

DC Area - currently at 15x DCA, 5 to 6x BWI. They are at same frequency as AA or maybe even better on some months, so no further increase needed. Even 14 is plenty, differentiating itself from DL at 6x. BWI will need to be upgauged to A220 to compete all cost vs WN. Right now, they get same yield as WN, but E90s costs are dramatically higher than 737. I don't think more flights will happen.

Chicago - Currently at 6x on peak days, AA/UA are at 8 to 10 depending on the month and DL at 5x. If this latest increase is good, they should raise it up to 8x for peak season. Again, another route that needs to be upgauged to A220 sooner than later to compete in economics against UA/AA who are both running mainline here.

Philadelphia - Currently at 8x on weekdays, AA at 12x and DL at 7x. Their schedule here is fine. Based on the LF I'm seeing in Q1, I don't think this route can support more flights. The only way I see them increase here is if DL drops out.

PIT - 6x on weekdays for most of the year, DL at 5x. Again, another route that has too many flights at the moment. I don't see them increase here even if DL drops out.

North Cali - 5x daily, UA at 6 to 7x daily, AS at 2-3x, DL at 1-2x to SFO. Based on recent data, the market has now absorbed the mint capacity as UA retreated to all 757s and DL dropped D1 service. I think it's good time to go up to 6x daily and match UA in schedule on most days. If that's successful, they can even go to 7x daily. It's important they do well in markets like this, especially vs DL in order to win more of the corporate dollar. Their service level to SJC/SMF can remain as is.

South Cali - 4x to LAX, 3x to SAN, 1x LGB, subdaily to BUR. They are doing well enough on LAX, that they can go to 5x. At some point, AA will retreat here due to their losses and B6 will be the clear market leader to LAX. Their schedule to SAN is fine. I don't think it needs to be changed. For other La basin market, I could see BUR switched to A220 if they want to keep it around. Or better yet, move that flight to SNA once A220 is available if BUR continues to struggle. PSP can be dropped.

PNW - 2x SEA, seasonal PDX. I don't think anything needs to be changed to SEA. The market is still absorbing mint. It might take another year or more for them to win over the top corporate dollar here from AS. They need to be able to offer year round service to PDX. I see this as an early market for A220. They can add a second A320 during peak season, but the current schedule is just noncompetitive vs AS.

Rest of West - 1x PHX, 4x LAS, 1x SLC - I think they are maxed out to LAS with 2x mint and 2x A320. The market can't handle more capacity. I would like to see PHX be converted to mint. That will give them a boost and also differentiate themselves and prevent DL entrance. SLC will continue to be noncompetitive. They probably need to convert that to A220 down the road.

Texas - 2x AUS, 2x DFW, 1x IAH - Of all the places that need A220, this has to be among top of the list. DL was smart to unleash A220 on DFW/IAH first. With B6's zero presence in Texas, their way to break out is to use A220's product and economics. BOS-AUS will be among the first to go to A220, since this is the longest E90 route that they operate. They need to probably go up to 4x DFW and 3x IAH down the road to be competitive in these markets. If they are trying to have domestic network that's complete, then the current token flights are going to cut it. I would also add SAT, since it's one of the largest unserved airport from BOS and can be served from JFK. Since they have given up on AUS focus city, they should no longer ignore SAT.

DEN - 2x, UA at 5x and WN at 2-3x - A market that they are doing reasonably well in given their lack of presence there. They are moving to upgauge here to A321 to be more competitive. If that's the case, I don't think any change is needed. for better schedule, they could eventually move to a mixture of A321 and A220 and go up to 3x.

ATL/MSP/DTW - 5x ATL, 3x MSP, 4x DTW - ATL/MSP will also be among the first markets getting A220 imo. It's hard for them to make A320 work and E90 costs are too high. DTW can be upgauged to A220 a little later. I don't think they will add more flights there.

Upstate NY - 4 to 5x BUF, 1x ROC, 1x SYR - the frequencies are fine as they are. I think they will be among the last to still be on E90 since there is already too much capacity there. I could see them adding a second ROC when AA drops out. 1 E90 to SYR is already too much capacity. Even if DL drops out of BUF, I don't think they can add more capacity there.

CLE - 4x peak days, DL at 3x - I think the frequencies are fine. Not really in rush for A220 upgauging.

RIC - 4x peak days, DL at 3x - Same as CLE

RDU - 5 to 7x daily, DL at 6x - I think they can go to 7x for longer period of the year. Other than that, this is already a lot of flight.

BNA - 2 to 3x daily, DL at 4x, WN at 4x - their performance here is fine here on A320. I do think they need to go to 3x daily for most of the year. This another A220 candidate. Not in a rush though.

Florida/MSY - I think they are more or less at right capacity in these markets.

New Markets they should add:
IND - 2x daily with E90s/A220
CMH - 2x daily with E90s/A220
MEM - 1x daily with E90/A220
SDF - 1x daily with E90/A220
MKE - 1x daily with A220

So I think there is quite a lot flights they can still add domestically in addition to the international markets.

Dieuwer wrote:

Just 2x DEN is not cutting it against UA/WN. Not to mention the 1x ULCC F9. They should increase it to 3x ASAP, and consider 4x during peak summer season.
Point in case, I booked UA because B6 schedule sucks.

I'd also add that their scheduling to Phoenix, Portland and Salt Lake City sucks too from Boston.

BZN is zeroed out after 1/5/2020.

Chicago - Currently at 6x on peak days, AA/UA are at 8 to 10 depending on the month and DL at 5x. If this latest increase is good, they should raise it up to 8x for peak season. Again, another route that needs to be upgauged to A220 sooner than later to compete in economics against UA/AA who are both running mainline here.

While this has merit, they only have 1 gate at ORD unless that's changed, they even steal an NK gate for Irrops, so I don't think this is likely to happen, unless they can negotiate more space, as it has to also fit JFK in there too.

PNW - 2x SEA, seasonal PDX. I don't think anything needs to be changed to SEA. The market is still absorbing mint. It might take another year or more for them to win over the top corporate dollar here from AS. They need to be able to offer year round service to PDX. I see this as an early market for A220. They can add a second A320 during peak season, but the current schedule is just noncompetitive vs AS.

Not so sure, that might work, but when i did the run BOS-PDX last fall, I got routed out via JFK and back via LGB, if they re-time their LGB runs from PDX as a result of the capacity shift from ANC, I am not sure they are going to create a non-stop. Unless they kill the LGB-BOS and then you may see something different. Sadly my wife went to PDX in May and took DL via SEA as the schedule was the best and most reasonable for her.

A few days ago, as I was walking towards C6/E2, I noticed a brand new boarding door (with, what seemed to be-temporary stairs) and a brand new sign saying E1A. Its next to C8, where TSA checkpoint is.
I asked a few jetblue airports crewmembers that I personally know, and was told they are adding another gate there and it should also have a jetbridge. Not sure if one can fit between C8 and E1, but there's definitely going to be another (maybe bus) gate.

Also, C40,41 and 42 will go to Jetblue. Not sure about whose gate C43 is going to be?
And C20a will also go to Jetblue.

E1-3 are getting used more and more by Jetblue during the morning wave, and lots of times SDQ and STI arrive to those gates and turn domestic.

tphuang wrote:

New Markets they should add:
IND - 2x daily with E90s/A220
CMH - 2x daily with E90s/A220
MEM - 1x daily with E90/A220
SDF - 1x daily with E90/A220
MKE - 1x daily with A220

So I think there is quite a lot flights they can still add domestically in addition to the international markets.

In addition to BOS-IND/CMH/MEM/SDF/MKE, B6 could also add BOS-CVG and BOS-ORF nonstop service since CVG and ORF are two of the top destinations traveled to from BOS that aren't currently served by B6. In addition, DL is also currently the only carrier serving CVG and ORF nonstop from BOS, and B6 adding BOS-CVG and BOS-ORF would provide nonstop competition on these two routes.

While I could see B6 re-entering CMH with B6 re-entering other markets that it previously pulled out of such as ATL and BNA, WN still serves CMH nonstop from BOS in addition to DL. WN still operates the BOS-MKE nonstop route that it inherited through the WN-FL merger, even though WN has reduced BOS-MKE to 1 daily nonstop in Summer 2019.

UkiAir wrote:

A few days ago, as I was walking towards C6/E2, I noticed a brand new boarding door (with, what seemed to be-temporary stairs) and a brand new sign saying E1A. Its next to C8, where TSA checkpoint is.
I asked a few jetblue airports crewmembers that I personally know, and was told they are adding another gate there and it should also have a jetbridge. Not sure if one can fit between C8 and E1, but there's definitely going to be another (maybe bus) gate.

Also, C40,41 and 42 will go to Jetblue. Not sure about whose gate C43 is going to be?
And C20a will also go to Jetblue.

E1-3 are getting used more and more by Jetblue during the morning wave, and lots of times SDQ and STI arrive to those gates and turn domestic.

If C43 is the likely naming convention then per the 30 gate scenario it will go to B6.

As for E1A, that is most likely to be a bus gate, if you look at the overhead imagery on google maps in satellite view, you will see no space for another gate. If I recall, E4 is still out of service, so busing will be required for many flights, so I suspect the best you are going to get is covered stairs down to the tarmac, in fact if you look at the image there right now, there is a plane at E1 and you will see there is no room to add another gate in there, so I don't think they are adding a gate officially, it's more an access gate. AMS has something similar for its cityflyer operation, you go through a door to get to the bus to drive across the tarmac.

VS4ever wrote:

UkiAir wrote:

A few days ago, as I was walking towards C6/E2, I noticed a brand new boarding door (with, what seemed to be-temporary stairs) and a brand new sign saying E1A. Its next to C8, where TSA checkpoint is.
I asked a few jetblue airports crewmembers that I personally know, and was told they are adding another gate there and it should also have a jetbridge. Not sure if one can fit between C8 and E1, but there's definitely going to be another (maybe bus) gate.

Also, C40,41 and 42 will go to Jetblue. Not sure about whose gate C43 is going to be?
And C20a will also go to Jetblue.

E1-3 are getting used more and more by Jetblue during the morning wave, and lots of times SDQ and STI arrive to those gates and turn domestic.

If C43 is the likely naming convention then per the 30 gate scenario it will go to B6.

As for E1A, that is most likely to be a bus gate, if you look at the overhead imagery on google maps in satellite view, you will see no space for another gate. If I recall, E4 is still out of service, so busing will be required for many flights, so I suspect the best you are going to get is covered stairs down to the tarmac, in fact if you look at the image there right now, there is a plane at E1 and you will see there is no room to add another gate in there, so I don't think they are adding a gate officially, it's more an access gate. AMS has something similar for its cityflyer operation, you go through a door to get to the bus to drive across the tarmac.

That's exactly what I am thinking too. Only, it can't be used for international carriers since it doesn't have dual door operation with the access to CBP. But it would be ideal for Porter. Maybe Silver can use it?
It's an every day thing to have multiple bus gates in Europe. I wonder why the US airports don't have as many. MUC, FRA, VIE, WAW and many other bigger airports use buses to transfer over pax to the planes sitting on remote stands. Jetblue's E190s would be perfect for it.

VS4ever wrote:

UkiAir wrote:

A few days ago, as I was walking towards C6/E2, I noticed a brand new boarding door (with, what seemed to be-temporary stairs) and a brand new sign saying E1A. Its next to C8, where TSA checkpoint is.
I asked a few jetblue airports crewmembers that I personally know, and was told they are adding another gate there and it should also have a jetbridge. Not sure if one can fit between C8 and E1, but there's definitely going to be another (maybe bus) gate.

Also, C40,41 and 42 will go to Jetblue. Not sure about whose gate C43 is going to be?
And C20a will also go to Jetblue.

E1-3 are getting used more and more by Jetblue during the morning wave, and lots of times SDQ and STI arrive to those gates and turn domestic.

If C43 is the likely naming convention then per the 30 gate scenario it will go to B6.

As for E1A, that is most likely to be a bus gate, if you look at the overhead imagery on google maps in satellite view, you will see no space for another gate. If I recall, E4 is still out of service, so busing will be required for many flights, so I suspect the best you are going to get is covered stairs down to the tarmac, in fact if you look at the image there right now, there is a plane at E1 and you will see there is no room to add another gate in there, so I don't think they are adding a gate officially, it's more an access gate. AMS has something similar for its cityflyer operation, you go through a door to get to the bus to drive across the tarmac.

Thanks for the update. Looks like they are adding something that can be used when things get tight with the normal jetbridge gates. Probably good for less important E90 markets.

So to summarize:
They are getting C20A, C40, C41, C42, C43 + E1 as part of the 6 gates addition? Sounds like they already use E1 pretty extensively, but not exclusively yet. They are waiting on the 5 terminal C gates which won't come until sometimes late next year.

They are using E3, E4 extensively and also possibly this E1A.

B752OS wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Just 2x DEN is not cutting it against UA/WN. Not to mention the 1x ULCC F9. They should increase it to 3x ASAP, and consider 4x during peak summer season.
Point in case, I booked UA because B6 schedule sucks.

I'd also add that their scheduling to Phoenix, Portland and Salt Lake City sucks too from Boston.

I don't think anything will change with SLC. But for the other ones, I think there is some obvious add there. DEN should support more capacity. PDX service right now is not competitive and needs to be year round. And I think PHX will go to mint.

A lot of this will depend on those new gates coming in and also A220. I see Q4 2020 as start of a major round of expansion for them.

tphuang wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

UkiAir wrote:

A few days ago, as I was walking towards C6/E2, I noticed a brand new boarding door (with, what seemed to be-temporary stairs) and a brand new sign saying E1A. Its next to C8, where TSA checkpoint is.
I asked a few jetblue airports crewmembers that I personally know, and was told they are adding another gate there and it should also have a jetbridge. Not sure if one can fit between C8 and E1, but there's definitely going to be another (maybe bus) gate.

Also, C40,41 and 42 will go to Jetblue. Not sure about whose gate C43 is going to be?
And C20a will also go to Jetblue.

E1-3 are getting used more and more by Jetblue during the morning wave, and lots of times SDQ and STI arrive to those gates and turn domestic.

If C43 is the likely naming convention then per the 30 gate scenario it will go to B6.

As for E1A, that is most likely to be a bus gate, if you look at the overhead imagery on google maps in satellite view, you will see no space for another gate. If I recall, E4 is still out of service, so busing will be required for many flights, so I suspect the best you are going to get is covered stairs down to the tarmac, in fact if you look at the image there right now, there is a plane at E1 and you will see there is no room to add another gate in there, so I don't think they are adding a gate officially, it's more an access gate. AMS has something similar for its cityflyer operation, you go through a door to get to the bus to drive across the tarmac.

Thanks for the update. Looks like they are adding something that can be used when things get tight with the normal jetbridge gates. Probably good for less important E90 markets.

So to summarize:
They are getting C20A, C40, C41, C42, C43 + E1 as part of the 6 gates addition? Sounds like they already use E1 pretty extensively, but not exclusively yet. They are waiting on the 5 terminal C gates which won't come until sometimes late next year.

They are using E3, E4 extensively and also possibly this E1A.

.

E1 is an interesting one, as are all the E gates for B6, so first off, in B6 world they are noted as C5-C7. C8 is actually a C gate only. and from what I have read B6 get preferential treatment on E1 as much as massport are able in order to allow Terminal E operations which we all know are very tight operationally. that effectively rounds out the 30 gate span of control afforded to B6 by Massport, I do not believe they will get exclusive use of E1, unless that's buried in contract language somewhere. With the C5-C7 (E3-E1) naming convention along with the duel screen set up at those gates, it's certainly going to continue for some time and now this E1A scenario, it gets more intriguing by the day.
C20A and C43 are a way off, of that there is no doubt, but once the two for WN get complete and those shuffles happen, with AS and SY being out of there, I believe C40-C42 will clear later this year rather than next year. Hence why some of their expansion (B6's) flights are aligned with that time frame. The bigger question to me is whether, when E expansion is complete, whether EI and TP move back to E..that would create a bunch of capacity.

VS4ever wrote:

tphuang wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

If C43 is the likely naming convention then per the 30 gate scenario it will go to B6.

As for E1A, that is most likely to be a bus gate, if you look at the overhead imagery on google maps in satellite view, you will see no space for another gate. If I recall, E4 is still out of service, so busing will be required for many flights, so I suspect the best you are going to get is covered stairs down to the tarmac, in fact if you look at the image there right now, there is a plane at E1 and you will see there is no room to add another gate in there, so I don't think they are adding a gate officially, it's more an access gate. AMS has something similar for its cityflyer operation, you go through a door to get to the bus to drive across the tarmac.

Thanks for the update. Looks like they are adding something that can be used when things get tight with the normal jetbridge gates. Probably good for less important E90 markets.

So to summarize:
They are getting C20A, C40, C41, C42, C43 + E1 as part of the 6 gates addition? Sounds like they already use E1 pretty extensively, but not exclusively yet. They are waiting on the 5 terminal C gates which won't come until sometimes late next year.

They are using E3, E4 extensively and also possibly this E1A.

.

E1 is an interesting one, as are all the E gates for B6, so first off, in B6 world they are noted as C5-C7. C8 is actually a C gate only. and from what I have read B6 get preferential treatment on E1 as much as massport are able in order to allow Terminal E operations which we all know are very tight operationally. that effectively rounds out the 30 gate span of control afforded to B6 by Massport, I do not believe they will get exclusive use of E1, unless that's buried in contract language somewhere. With the C5-C7 (E3-E1) naming convention along with the duel screen set up at those gates, it's certainly going to continue for some time and now this E1A scenario, it gets more intriguing by the day.
C20A and C43 are a way off, of that there is no doubt, but once the two for WN get complete and those shuffles happen, with AS and SY being out of there, I believe C40-C42 will clear later this year rather than next year. Hence why some of their expansion (B6's) flights are aligned with that time frame. The bigger question to me is whether, when E expansion is complete, whether EI and TP move back to E..that would create a bunch of capacity.

Any EI or TP move would be along the 2021 time line right? They will also need to make sure terminal E can handle their incoming aircraft from Europe once that happens. How many new gates is coming through with the terminal E expansion? Seems like BOS is going to be at capacity again soon with international stuff. If they can get C40-42 by later this year, then they do still have some room for adds next year. And it would be right in time for all the A321NEO deliveries that got delayed from this year.

When I lived in Florida in the late 90s, a big traffic problem on the interstate highways was traffic going very fast, losing control, crossing a narrow grassy median, and hitting head on traffic going in the opposite direction.

There was a lot of discussion on what could be done to prevent it.

You dont need more evidence to see how backward Florida was just 20 years ago.

Anybody relocating there from another state had a simple answer: guardrails. Guardrails on grassy medians were eventually required by the federal government and Florida now has guardrails between opposite direction traffic on interstates.


Long winded story?


Boston not putting customs in Terminal A is just as stupid. It solves all of their problems...immediately.


It is a simple answer STARING at them in the face.

How easy or hard would be to turn the current Alaska gates into a small customs facility for jetblue once they take over those 3 gates? That way jetblue could vacate E for good and use their own customs facility if it could be done. Seeing as how there’s a small TSA area over there and it would be just jetblue using this area I think it wouldn’t be hard to add one custom lane in that spot. But idk

jfklganyc wrote:

When I lived in Florida in the late 90s, a big traffic problem on the interstate highways was traffic going very fast, losing control, crossing a narrow grassy median, and hitting head on traffic going in the opposite direction.

There was a lot of discussion on what could be done to prevent it.

You dont need more evidence to see how backward Florida was just 20 years ago.

Anybody relocating there from another state had a simple answer: guardrails. Guardrails on grassy medians were eventually required by the federal government and Florida now has guardrails between opposite direction traffic on interstates.


Long winded story?


Boston not putting customs in Terminal A is just as stupid. It solves all of their problems...immediately.




It is a simple answer STARING at them in the face.

I think we all agree it would be smart to do that, but the issue has always been, where exactly do you put it for 7 flights a day, as it's unlikely they could bring over KL and AF and VS without destroying gate availability in the evenings. The Satellite is where those flights arrive and depart, and would have to be completely redesigned to do and the main concourse has no room to do that, it's pretty full now. Clearly massport is not on that wavelength as there is nothing proposed in their capital budget through FY2024 (June 25) right now, So i think they disagree with our assessment, rightly or wrongly.

FARmd90 wrote:

How easy or hard would be to turn the current Alaska gates into a small customs facility for jetblue once they take over those 3 gates? That way jetblue could vacate E for good and use their own customs facility if it could be done. Seeing as how there’s a small TSA area over there and it would be just jetblue using this area I think it wouldn’t be hard to add one custom lane in that spot. But idk

I've been thinking about this too. Plus the new gate C43.
So 4 gates connected passed security with both Terminal B and C AND the CBP facilities. Even if another floor on top of it is needed, it would make such a big difference. Like lots and lots of other airports in the world have.

UkiAir wrote:

FARmd90 wrote:

How easy or hard would be to turn the current Alaska gates into a small customs facility for jetblue once they take over those 3 gates? That way jetblue could vacate E for good and use their own customs facility if it could be done. Seeing as how there’s a small TSA area over there and it would be just jetblue using this area I think it wouldn’t be hard to add one custom lane in that spot. But idk

I've been thinking about this too. Plus the new gate C43.
So 4 gates connected passed security with both Terminal B and C AND the CBP facilities. Even if another floor on top of it is needed, it would make such a big difference. Like lots and lots of other airports in the world have.

There’s also that baggage claim area below those gates that cape air and Alaska use they could turn into Customs or even take away from the food court a little bit if needed. Seems like that would be easy way to add another inspection area for international flights where B6, Porter, Azores and some of the smaller international flights could park.

FARmd90 wrote:

How easy or hard would be to turn the current Alaska gates into a small customs facility for jetblue once they take over those 3 gates? That way jetblue could vacate E for good and use their own customs facility if it could be done. Seeing as how there’s a small TSA area over there and it would be just jetblue using this area I think it wouldn’t be hard to add one custom lane in that spot. But idk

B6 has some areas that they could use for hardstand-bus gates as well, west of Gate 30...which are currently used for aircraft parking, but could be used for bus gates (maximum of 2 planes). Now that PS and EW no longer park all day thanks to flight re-timings, B6 could use some of them during the day for overflow, with BA moving its parking to where PS used to park.

Also, could the number of international gates be expanded from the current 6 to facilitate a more wide-ranging TATL operation?

As for international departures at JFK, this is how I see it as it should be done, for routes running only once a day:

1. Sun destinations (i.e., the Caribbean), morning departure from domestic gates, afternoon return flights arriving back between 8 PM and 10 PM.
2. LatAm destinations (this is being done for GYE as an example) that are not sun destinations: early afternoon departures, return flights near midnight arriving back just as JFK customs opens.
3. TATL flights: depart around 5 PM to 7 PM (this can be done by re-timing other flights), and an early afternoon arrival.

As for TATL, B6 should, in addition to London and Paris, target secondary cities in the UK and Germany. I would suggest the following destinations:

UK: DUB, GLA or EDI, MAN
France: NCE*
Germany: DUS, HAM* (seasonal), STR* (seasonal)

* (with A321XLR)

I have to wonder why B6 has never tried PTY, given how it's a major financial center of Panama, unless they feel that CM being 21-28 weekly can't be competed against, given that PTY is basically the KEF of the Americas.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

FARmd90 wrote:

How easy or hard would be to turn the current Alaska gates into a small customs facility for jetblue once they take over those 3 gates? That way jetblue could vacate E for good and use their own customs facility if it could be done. Seeing as how there’s a small TSA area over there and it would be just jetblue using this area I think it wouldn’t be hard to add one custom lane in that spot. But idk

B6 has some areas that they could use for hardstand-bus gates as well, west of Gate 30...which are currently used for aircraft parking, but could be used for bus gates (maximum of 2 planes). Now that PS and EW no longer park all day thanks to flight re-timings, B6 could use some of them during the day for overflow, with BA moving its parking to where PS used to park.

Also, could the number of international gates be expanded from the current 6 to facilitate a more wide-ranging TATL operation?

As for international departures at JFK, this is how I see it as it should be done, for routes running only once a day:

1. Sun destinations (i.e., the Caribbean), morning departure from domestic gates, afternoon return flights arriving back between 8 PM and 10 PM.
2. LatAm destinations (this is being done for GYE as an example) that are not sun destinations: early afternoon departures, return flights near midnight arriving back just as JFK customs opens.
3. TATL flights: depart around 5 PM to 7 PM (this can be done by re-timing other flights), and an early afternoon arrival.

As for TATL, B6 should, in addition to London and Paris, target secondary cities in the UK and Germany. I would suggest the following destinations:

UK: DUB, GLA or EDI, MAN
France: NCE*
Germany: DUS, HAM* (seasonal), STR* (seasonal)

* (with A321XLR)

I have to wonder why B6 has never tried PTY, given how it's a major financial center of Panama, unless they feel that CM being 21-28 weekly can't be competed against, given that PTY is basically the KEF of the Americas.

Also keep in mind for JFK that while they could reshuffle things around like you said. B6 is also going to be building 2 new terminals T6 and T7 with a projection of being done around 2023. Europe will only be 2 years old if that at the time of completion so more festoons could be added the year 2023. The same year the XLR becomes available.