Brickell305
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:22 am

Jonathanxxxx wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I just realized with gov't shutdown, the fare total might not be available until that's over. bummer.


JFK and MCO are not doing great due to the PR weakness. BOS-SJU is quite profitable as a monopoly. I think they are trying to run DL off JFK-SJU/STI/SDQ. A lot of capacity next summer out of JFK. We will see. DL seems to be committed to battling B6 on certain routes even when they are bleeding money.


4x on JFK-LHR seems to be what they requested for based on one of the links i saw on BOS threads. But I don't see them getting the 7 slots they are asking for. Realistically, they will probably start off at twice a day on both routes imo. Which given B6's leisure profile in NYC, they should do okay in. There are always people willing to pay more to fly B6 out of NYC. They do really well to CLT/ATL/DEN with just 2 flights a day.


yep, agreed 100% here. I can see how UA could make B6 network out of JFK work. Why I always said WN made the most sense.


What DL is doing on BOS-PIT is unsustainable. They are getting less than half of the yield that they get on LGA-PIT. The fares are already rock bottom and now they are planning to increase capacity by 150% next summer! I can't see how that works out.

Outside of taking revenge on B6 for tanking BOS-LGA/ATL/MSP fares, I can't see any other reason for DL to stick around on this route.



That maybe the case, but B6 been poaching premium passengers from AA due to mint. And flights to places like GRU/GIG/EZE will be possible once they have a321LR (or XLR).

AA has publicly said MIA is underperforming. And we know FLL is now B6's most profitable station (at least in winter time). That would indicate they are gaining on AA in yield at So. Fla.

Maybe mini-mint with A220? I think that's more likely.

Re So. Fla, while B6 has poached some business traffic from AA, again it is primarily domestic and to a handful of destinations. B6's hub at FLL isn't comparable to what AA has at MIA. AA @ MIA is a SIGNIFICANTLY larger hub in terms of scale, capacity, destinations, etc. In almost any metric you can use, AA @ MIA eclipses B6 @ FLL. So while MIA might be currently under-performing for AA, that is primarily due to weaknesses in some of their most important markets from Miami (Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, etc.) and less to do with B6 taking some of AA's domestic traffic.


Of course AA is bigger at MIA. AA uses MIA to funnel thousands of connections North-South, and AA will always be the favorite for customers heading straight into Brickell, Downtown and the South. You are right that B6’s FLL hub and AA’s MIA hub are not comparable because of the sheer amount of people AA moves through MIA.

However, I disagree that MIA’s recent underwhelming performance for AA has little to do with B6 at FLL (and to a certain extent, WN). Both carriers have really become dominant in Broward County, and their destinations are very much catered to local O&D. FLL has become a a very viable alternative for some of SoFlo’s biggest international markets such as BOG, PTY, CUN, and HAV. Other high yielding domestic markets that AA used to have a lock on such as SoFlo-LAX/SFO/LAS are now served with more nonstops and mint from FLL, so it’s no surprise that these trunk routes aren’t printing money the way they used to for AA.

Flyers who live in between MIA and FLL in relatively affluent areas such as Sunny Isles, Aventura, Pembroke Pines etc. have traditionally driven to MIA for nonstops to the West Coast and South America (and paid a premium for it too). FLL’s recent growth has cut into that traffic.

Because of the critical mass of the AA hub, MIA will always be able to support the more obscure and exotic destinations that rely on a mix of local traffic and connections from across the country. B6 can’t replicate those traffic flows until they really build out FLL (if they choose to do so).

Re B6 @ FLL and the international destinations that you mentioned:

1) BOG is only served 1x daily by B6. AV @ MIA/FLL is AA's main competitor. B6 is an also ran in the market.
2) PTY isn't served by B6 at all. CM is the competitor on the route.
3) CUN is a primarily leisure destination and even there AA's service dwarfs that of B6.
4) HAV is a market that all airlines started at the same time so FLL was always an alternative. Yet even there, the level of service AA offers dwarfs what B6 offers out of FLL.

Re the domestic destinations, as I said, B6 has taken some of AA's business pax to a handful of important domestic destinations. However, the main issue with AA @ MIA is underperformance in Latin America and competition from foreign carriers.
 
csavel
Posts: 1386
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:44 pm

I find it hard to believe a UA B6 merger would ever happen - even in today's more lax business climate. United would either have to give up its EWR focus hub (ain't EVER gonna happen) or would have to lose B6's operation in JFK. If the latter, it wouldn't make United a bigger player in the NY metro area. Rather it would be the greatest gift to Delta they ever got.

People for whom EWR is more convenient are gonna use United regardless. People for whom JFK is more convenient will use Delta or jetBlue regardless. People for whom it is six of one/half dozen of the other will flock to Delta b/c Delta has a large operation in LGA as well and has a loyal following in NY. Continental had that out of EWR. United doesn't.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
Chapmads
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:14 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:22 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
It’s about damn time for CLT-FLL/MCO

Would love to see this, too. However, I’m pretty skeptical. JBU launched CLT-FLL when they first came to CLT, and that route is long gone. AA has a stronghold on CLT-MCO, though Frontier has one daily(?) flight.
 
6YBLUE
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:45 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:59 am

jfklganyc wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Your VX analogy is telling to your ignorance of basic economic principles.

VX failed to earn money for much of its existence. It was on the verge of collapse several times.

The pilots and flight attendants of VX may complain about changes...But they have been integrated into a much stronger, more stable company with higher pay.

There are workgroups that really got screwed in mergers (TWA comes to mind)

For all the merger complaints of VX and AirTran...Even the guys that were demoted to first officer...They all made more money; they all have better job security as part of a bigger company. Hindsight is 20/20 but most will look back at those mergers as good things for their careers...even if integration was unnerving.

Pan Am, Eastern...these were “demises”

A B6/UA merger would not be a demise, especially if thet got a purchase price of 40 or better per share



Is that right. I know first hand of a majority of VX crew members who were let go in multiple markets. I also know first hand of pilots who are being furloughed and that's before AS scraps the 320's come 2020. Please don't tell me or spread this notion that mergers are good for employees on a whole. Its a lie and irresponsible especially for the possibly affected employees at a smaller airline like B6.



Ok. Enough with the Bull on this site.

Put up time.

How many VX pilots were furloughed by AS? When were they furloughed?

I want numbers and dates.



I really believe you are concentrating on the wrong things here. I could throw out any numbers and dates, doesn't change the fact that mergers are not great for the majority of employees. The fact that you're only interested in what happened to pilots also says a lot. Understand this clearly, a buyout/merger is not beneficial for the traveling public or the (majority) employees of the much smaller B6. Despite what you've heard, its not being discussed and is nothing more than a stupid rumor by a small group of disgruntled pilots. STOP trying to spread the lies.
 
flyby519
Posts: 1356
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:22 am

tphuang wrote:

Maybe mini-mint with A220? I think that's more likely.


Start at 4:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjsEOAzyMo0

So people inside JB are already talking about "mini Mint" but Robin seems to basically have no substantial comment on it. I do think it is likely as well, but they just aren't making any public statements yet.
 
User avatar
LuxuryTravelled
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:06 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:15 am

Sounds exactly like what David Neeleman has been saying?
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:46 pm

6YBLUE wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:


Is that right. I know first hand of a majority of VX crew members who were let go in multiple markets. I also know first hand of pilots who are being furloughed and that's before AS scraps the 320's come 2020. Please don't tell me or spread this notion that mergers are good for employees on a whole. Its a lie and irresponsible especially for the possibly affected employees at a smaller airline like B6.



Ok. Enough with the Bull on this site.

Put up time.

How many VX pilots were furloughed by AS? When were they furloughed?

I want numbers and dates.



I really believe you are concentrating on the wrong things here. I could throw out any numbers and dates, doesn't change the fact that mergers are not great for the majority of employees. The fact that you're only interested in what happened to pilots also says a lot. Understand this clearly, a buyout/merger is not beneficial for the traveling public or the (majority) employees of the much smaller B6. Despite what you've heard, its not being discussed and is nothing more than a stupid rumor by a small group of disgruntled pilots. STOP trying to spread the lies.



It’s not just JetBlue pilots. The rumor was so strong last year the ELT even had to put out a communication saying it wasn’t true. So you can think it’s disgruntled pilots but it isn’t. (You must work at LSC) :)

The better question to ask yourself is why do these rumors exist. You may want to say it’s just disgruntled pilots but that’s not it and is the easy way out. Morale is at an all time low, even flight ops leadership just admitted it. The company operations are poor at best. The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting. There is simply no vision or leadership at this company right now. Most rational people look at that and go well they are either a poor leadership team or we must be for sale because they seem to no longer care. Trust me it’s a feeling by every employee group not just pilots. There has been a major change in the culture of JetBlue and it’s not gods and it’s very disappointing for many of the employees.

As for new routes or anything who knows these days. The LR decision was due this fall, I have the email now it’s a some point next year. There was to be a new push out west now there isn’t. And on and on, they are fumbling around for a strategy while being hit on all sides from other airlines. (Hello Delta)

This company could do great things but not if the leadership team sticks around.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:52 pm

I completely agree. This B6 ship is sailing down the river with no direction. Wait for everything forever to decide it drive employees crazy
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5103
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:32 pm

fastmover wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Ok. Enough with the Bull on this site.

Put up time.

How many VX pilots were furloughed by AS? When were they furloughed?

I want numbers and dates.



I really believe you are concentrating on the wrong things here. I could throw out any numbers and dates, doesn't change the fact that mergers are not great for the majority of employees. The fact that you're only interested in what happened to pilots also says a lot. Understand this clearly, a buyout/merger is not beneficial for the traveling public or the (majority) employees of the much smaller B6. Despite what you've heard, its not being discussed and is nothing more than a stupid rumor by a small group of disgruntled pilots. STOP trying to spread the lies.



It’s not just JetBlue pilots. The rumor was so strong last year the ELT even had to put out a communication saying it wasn’t true. So you can think it’s disgruntled pilots but it isn’t. (You must work at LSC) :)

The better question to ask yourself is why do these rumors exist. You may want to say it’s just disgruntled pilots but that’s not it and is the easy way out. Morale is at an all time low, even flight ops leadership just admitted it. The company operations are poor at best. The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting. There is simply no vision or leadership at this company right now. Most rational people look at that and go well they are either a poor leadership team or we must be for sale because they seem to no longer care. Trust me it’s a feeling by every employee group not just pilots. There has been a major change in the culture of JetBlue and it’s not gods and it’s very disappointing for many of the employees.

As for new routes or anything who knows these days. The LR decision was due this fall, I have the email now it’s a some point next year. There was to be a new push out west now there isn’t. And on and on, they are fumbling around for a strategy while being hit on all sides from other airlines. (Hello Delta)

This company could do great things but not if the leadership team sticks around.



since this site has no like button


LIKE!!!!!!!!!!! times a thousand
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13696
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:55 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
There is definitely business traffic there. The issue is that much of the business traffic across So. Fla is international and it’s hard to match the frequency/scope of what AA offers both internationally and domestically. This is exacerbated by the fact that the international business traffic generally prefers MIA to FLL. An FLL based carrier would primarily be competing with AA for domestic business traffic while ceding the lion’s share of the international business traffic to AA. Very difficult to do well in that type of market if you’re a legacy.


Yes, nothing will come close to the size/scale/scope of what AA/MIA is, but I think theres enough north of Miami to support a "lite" version at FLL.

What is the #2 airline of choice for business travelers So Fla? is it DL or B6? both offer rather limited networks. B6 + UA would shake up the So Fla market for sure.

United would get runout of FLL by WN and NK.


UA is doing pretty well against WN and F9 in Denver.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2092
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:04 pm

STT757 wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:

Yes, nothing will come close to the size/scale/scope of what AA/MIA is, but I think theres enough north of Miami to support a "lite" version at FLL.

What is the #2 airline of choice for business travelers So Fla? is it DL or B6? both offer rather limited networks. B6 + UA would shake up the So Fla market for sure.

United would get runout of FLL by WN and NK.


UA is doing pretty well against WN and F9 in Denver.

Ok......so you understand that UA has been the strongest carrier in Denver for something like 75 years. Talk about legacy strength. They are THE incumbents carrier there with very strong community and business ties. That doesn’t exist in FLL. In fact it is just the opposite.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13696
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
United would get runout of FLL by WN and NK.


UA is doing pretty well against WN and F9 in Denver.

Ok......so you understand that UA has been the strongest carrier in Denver for something like 75 years. Talk about legacy strength. They are THE incumbents carrier there with very strong community and business ties. That doesn’t exist in FLL. In fact it is just the opposite.


UA, and CO before, have been in FLL longer than WN.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2092
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:15 pm

STT757 wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
STT757 wrote:

UA is doing pretty well against WN and F9 in Denver.

Ok......so you understand that UA has been the strongest carrier in Denver for something like 75 years. Talk about legacy strength. They are THE incumbents carrier there with very strong community and business ties. That doesn’t exist in FLL. In fact it is just the opposite.


UA, and CO before, have been in FLL longer than WN.

Where’s the emoji for eye rolling?
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:28 pm

fastmover wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Ok. Enough with the Bull on this site.

Put up time.

How many VX pilots were furloughed by AS? When were they furloughed?

I want numbers and dates.



I really believe you are concentrating on the wrong things here. I could throw out any numbers and dates, doesn't change the fact that mergers are not great for the majority of employees. The fact that you're only interested in what happened to pilots also says a lot. Understand this clearly, a buyout/merger is not beneficial for the traveling public or the (majority) employees of the much smaller B6. Despite what you've heard, its not being discussed and is nothing more than a stupid rumor by a small group of disgruntled pilots. STOP trying to spread the lies.



It’s not just JetBlue pilots. The rumor was so strong last year the ELT even had to put out a communication saying it wasn’t true. So you can think it’s disgruntled pilots but it isn’t. (You must work at LSC) :)

The better question to ask yourself is why do these rumors exist. You may want to say it’s just disgruntled pilots but that’s not it and is the easy way out. Morale is at an all time low, even flight ops leadership just admitted it. The company operations are poor at best. The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting. There is simply no vision or leadership at this company right now. Most rational people look at that and go well they are either a poor leadership team or we must be for sale because they seem to no longer care. Trust me it’s a feeling by every employee group not just pilots. There has been a major change in the culture of JetBlue and it’s not gods and it’s very disappointing for many of the employees.

As for new routes or anything who knows these days. The LR decision was due this fall, I have the email now it’s a some point next year. There was to be a new push out west now there isn’t. And on and on, they are fumbling around for a strategy while being hit on all sides from other airlines. (Hello Delta)

This company could do great things but not if the leadership team sticks around.



I apologize about the typos. I did a quick iPhone post and can’t edit it.


I will say the frustration with many of us employees is we honestly want JetBlue to be a great airline. It’s not about money or contracts, the regular employees really do care. They have simply been left in the dark. A few years ago we had no unions now we have two with more coming. Something is very broken and a once strong brand and culture is crumbling. At the same time management keeps saying everything is fine or pushing the blame. We had a slight meltdown on Christmas and managements answer was to tell other employee groups it was all the fault of the pilots. That just isn’t good leadership, we won’t even get into the lack of staffing that we are currently dealing with.
They are trying to cut costs and there is simply nothing left to cut and the operation suffers everyday. We can’t get the job done.
If anyone at LSC reads this the system is broken fix it. Save JetBlue from its management.
I am actually worried if this keeps going what will be left of our JetBlue.
 
User avatar
iamjoeym
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:40 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:44 pm

fastmover wrote:
fastmover wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:


I really believe you are concentrating on the wrong things here. I could throw out any numbers and dates, doesn't change the fact that mergers are not great for the majority of employees. The fact that you're only interested in what happened to pilots also says a lot. Understand this clearly, a buyout/merger is not beneficial for the traveling public or the (majority) employees of the much smaller B6. Despite what you've heard, its not being discussed and is nothing more than a stupid rumor by a small group of disgruntled pilots. STOP trying to spread the lies.



It’s not just JetBlue pilots. The rumor was so strong last year the ELT even had to put out a communication saying it wasn’t true. So you can think it’s disgruntled pilots but it isn’t. (You must work at LSC) :)

The better question to ask yourself is why do these rumors exist. You may want to say it’s just disgruntled pilots but that’s not it and is the easy way out. Morale is at an all time low, even flight ops leadership just admitted it. The company operations are poor at best. The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting. There is simply no vision or leadership at this company right now. Most rational people look at that and go well they are either a poor leadership team or we must be for sale because they seem to no longer care. Trust me it’s a feeling by every employee group not just pilots. There has been a major change in the culture of JetBlue and it’s not gods and it’s very disappointing for many of the employees.

As for new routes or anything who knows these days. The LR decision was due this fall, I have the email now it’s a some point next year. There was to be a new push out west now there isn’t. And on and on, they are fumbling around for a strategy while being hit on all sides from other airlines. (Hello Delta)

This company could do great things but not if the leadership team sticks around.



I apologize about the typos. I did a quick iPhone post and can’t edit it.


I will say the frustration with many of us employees is we honestly want JetBlue to be a great airline. It’s not about money or contracts, the regular employees really do care. They have simply been left in the dark. A few years ago we had no unions now we have two with more coming. Something is very broken and a once strong brand and culture is crumbling. At the same time management keeps saying everything is fine or pushing the blame. We had a slight meltdown on Christmas and managements answer was to tell other employee groups it was all the fault of the pilots. That just isn’t good leadership, we won’t even get into the lack of staffing that we are currently dealing with.
They are trying to cut costs and there is simply nothing left to cut and the operation suffers everyday. We can’t get the job done.
If anyone at LSC reads this the system is broken fix it. Save JetBlue from its management.
I am actually worried if this keeps going what will be left of our JetBlue.


I couldn't agree with you more. I came to JetBlue fully knowing it wasn't unionized, because it's where I had always wanted to be and from the outside it didn't seem to be a big deal. I wanted to be apart of the culture that was built on pride and going above and beyond for customers and each other. I still love this airline and what the public perceives it to be, but with being constantly left in the dark, it has become so disheartening to see how management is slowly letting something that could be truly amazing just crumble. It's so hard to hear stories from the senior mamas about how awesome JetBlue was when Neeleman was around, and now there is not a glimmer of that to be found -- except within each other.

I believe there's hope that not all is lost, I'll still show up for my flights excited to give the JetBlue experience and having a better quality of life (personally) then I would've if I went to American -- but we need to see the light. Frontline crewmembers can only apologize and smile so much.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:25 pm

iamjoeym wrote:
fastmover wrote:
fastmover wrote:


It’s not just JetBlue pilots. The rumor was so strong last year the ELT even had to put out a communication saying it wasn’t true. So you can think it’s disgruntled pilots but it isn’t. (You must work at LSC) :)

The better question to ask yourself is why do these rumors exist. You may want to say it’s just disgruntled pilots but that’s not it and is the easy way out. Morale is at an all time low, even flight ops leadership just admitted it. The company operations are poor at best. The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting. There is simply no vision or leadership at this company right now. Most rational people look at that and go well they are either a poor leadership team or we must be for sale because they seem to no longer care. Trust me it’s a feeling by every employee group not just pilots. There has been a major change in the culture of JetBlue and it’s not gods and it’s very disappointing for many of the employees.

As for new routes or anything who knows these days. The LR decision was due this fall, I have the email now it’s a some point next year. There was to be a new push out west now there isn’t. And on and on, they are fumbling around for a strategy while being hit on all sides from other airlines. (Hello Delta)

This company could do great things but not if the leadership team sticks around.



I apologize about the typos. I did a quick iPhone post and can’t edit it.


I will say the frustration with many of us employees is we honestly want JetBlue to be a great airline. It’s not about money or contracts, the regular employees really do care. They have simply been left in the dark. A few years ago we had no unions now we have two with more coming. Something is very broken and a once strong brand and culture is crumbling. At the same time management keeps saying everything is fine or pushing the blame. We had a slight meltdown on Christmas and managements answer was to tell other employee groups it was all the fault of the pilots. That just isn’t good leadership, we won’t even get into the lack of staffing that we are currently dealing with.
They are trying to cut costs and there is simply nothing left to cut and the operation suffers everyday. We can’t get the job done.
If anyone at LSC reads this the system is broken fix it. Save JetBlue from its management.
I am actually worried if this keeps going what will be left of our JetBlue.


I couldn't agree with you more. I came to JetBlue fully knowing it wasn't unionized, because it's where I had always wanted to be and from the outside it didn't seem to be a big deal. I wanted to be apart of the culture that was built on pride and going above and beyond for customers and each other. I still love this airline and what the public perceives it to be, but with being constantly left in the dark, it has become so disheartening to see how management is slowly letting something that could be truly amazing just crumble. It's so hard to hear stories from the senior mamas about how awesome JetBlue was when Neeleman was around, and now there is not a glimmer of that to be found -- except within each other.

I believe there's hope that not all is lost, I'll still show up for my flights excited to give the JetBlue experience and having a better quality of life (personally) then I would've if I went to American -- but we need to see the light. Frontline crewmembers can only apologize and smile so much.

I just want to continue the same conversation from a B6 employee as well. The morale is poor, our operational numbers are poor, our vision is poor or at least in question. There’s been talk about the LR and Europe for a couple of years now and still no decision, the A220 decision was pushed back several months (the tariff decision did have something to do with that though), the cabin refresh was supposed to be done by now and we just got our 10th plane done, the change in catering was a disaster last summer, we continue to have WiFi and live tv issues, and they still believe employees will pick up the slack like years before but are unaware of the previously mentioned low morale.
There are a lot of strengths within this airline but for some reason we’re nowhere close to achieving them. The blame can be spread around but just like in most things in life, most of the blame would start at the top.
Just my opinion.
 
impilot
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:38 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:56 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
iamjoeym wrote:
fastmover wrote:


I apologize about the typos. I did a quick iPhone post and can’t edit it.


I will say the frustration with many of us employees is we honestly want JetBlue to be a great airline. It’s not about money or contracts, the regular employees really do care. They have simply been left in the dark. A few years ago we had no unions now we have two with more coming. Something is very broken and a once strong brand and culture is crumbling. At the same time management keeps saying everything is fine or pushing the blame. We had a slight meltdown on Christmas and managements answer was to tell other employee groups it was all the fault of the pilots. That just isn’t good leadership, we won’t even get into the lack of staffing that we are currently dealing with.
They are trying to cut costs and there is simply nothing left to cut and the operation suffers everyday. We can’t get the job done.
If anyone at LSC reads this the system is broken fix it. Save JetBlue from its management.
I am actually worried if this keeps going what will be left of our JetBlue.


I couldn't agree with you more. I came to JetBlue fully knowing it wasn't unionized, because it's where I had always wanted to be and from the outside it didn't seem to be a big deal. I wanted to be apart of the culture that was built on pride and going above and beyond for customers and each other. I still love this airline and what the public perceives it to be, but with being constantly left in the dark, it has become so disheartening to see how management is slowly letting something that could be truly amazing just crumble. It's so hard to hear stories from the senior mamas about how awesome JetBlue was when Neeleman was around, and now there is not a glimmer of that to be found -- except within each other.

I believe there's hope that not all is lost, I'll still show up for my flights excited to give the JetBlue experience and having a better quality of life (personally) then I would've if I went to American -- but we need to see the light. Frontline crewmembers can only apologize and smile so much.

I just want to continue the same conversation from a B6 employee as well. The morale is poor, our operational numbers are poor, our vision is poor or at least in question. There’s been talk about the LR and Europe for a couple of years now and still no decision, the A220 decision was pushed back several months (the tariff decision did have something to do with that though), the cabin refresh was supposed to be done by now and we just got our 10th plane done, the change in catering was a disaster last summer, we continue to have WiFi and live tv issues, and they still believe employees will pick up the slack like years before but are unaware of the previously mentioned low morale.
There are a lot of strengths within this airline but for some reason we’re nowhere close to achieving them. The blame can be spread around but just like in most things in life, most of the blame would start at the top.
Just my opinion.


They are aware of the low morale. But their approach to fixing it is way off track. You can’t email a group and request high morale to come back and just “start over” as the chief pilot just did, without taking actions to reverse decisions made which resulted in the low morale in the first place. You also can’t make rules forcing culture (mandate cleaning, mandate saying hello and goodbye, mandate being the last one off under the guise of “monitoring power” while at the same time boarding without pilots is permitted, and all the other stuff employees used to do for “culture,” which is now eroded), as Joanna and team is doing. Offering pizza and barbecues while maintaining toxic and hostile culture and policies won’t result in positive morale.

Culture starts at the top. The chief pilot just explicitly said that it does not, and that it instead starts with each individual of an organization. His point and request is that the individuals at jetblue under him (pilots) need to change their outlook and mindset about employee/company relations. That shows how poor the jetblue leadership is. That’s leadership 101. Management has to own corporate culture. Middle management and upper management either need to get cleaned out, or the BoD needs to expect that nothing will change until mgmt actions and views on/knowledge of leadership changes. But JG, the chief pilot, and others in charge of the operation have shown their true colors, and nothing will change with them imo.

Not sure at what MBA program legislating goodwill, culture, and going above and beyond is taught. In all my leadership training and experience, goodwill and good culture is earned with mutual respect and caring. And I don’t know how the BoD thought it was a good idea to promote an HR background lawyer with no real leadership experience and certainly no operational experience to be the president and COO with an already struggling operation.

Neeleman was right when he said if a union shows up on property, it’s our fault...which is why more and more unions keep showing up. JetBlue has shown it doesn’t take care of its employees, and its employees, often out of self-preservation, need an organization that will take care of them...hence unionization. Many of the staunchest anti-union employees have changed their tune...not because their views on unions changed, but because the environment and management actions changed.
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:25 pm

That is what drives me crazy. Everyone I talk with wants JetBlue to be successful and is proud of what the name is or was. We just have an ELT going in a totally opposite direction. I know a while back someone who I think works at LSC was like who cares if 800 pilots surround HQ and are mad and now we get oh it’s just disgruntled pilots. No it’s all of us asking where are we going what are we doing?

Imagine if we had a CEO come in that was like look here is what we’re are going to do. We know the culture is broken and we own that and will work everyday to get your trust back. We need you to be there with us. We are under attack in Boston and FLL we need to work on our West Coast and we are going to go over and shake up the Trans Atlantic market with our successful mint product.
Here’s how we will do it and so on. If they did that I can guarantee you morale would go way up. It’s all there it just needs a good leadership team and this place would be rocking. All we can do is hope and take care of each other out on the line.
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:28 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
iamjoeym wrote:
fastmover wrote:


I apologize about the typos. I did a quick iPhone post and can’t edit it.


I will say the frustration with many of us employees is we honestly want JetBlue to be a great airline. It’s not about money or contracts, the regular employees really do care. They have simply been left in the dark. A few years ago we had no unions now we have two with more coming. Something is very broken and a once strong brand and culture is crumbling. At the same time management keeps saying everything is fine or pushing the blame. We had a slight meltdown on Christmas and managements answer was to tell other employee groups it was all the fault of the pilots. That just isn’t good leadership, we won’t even get into the lack of staffing that we are currently dealing with.
They are trying to cut costs and there is simply nothing left to cut and the operation suffers everyday. We can’t get the job done.
If anyone at LSC reads this the system is broken fix it. Save JetBlue from its management.
I am actually worried if this keeps going what will be left of our JetBlue.


I couldn't agree with you more. I came to JetBlue fully knowing it wasn't unionized, because it's where I had always wanted to be and from the outside it didn't seem to be a big deal. I wanted to be apart of the culture that was built on pride and going above and beyond for customers and each other. I still love this airline and what the public perceives it to be, but with being constantly left in the dark, it has become so disheartening to see how management is slowly letting something that could be truly amazing just crumble. It's so hard to hear stories from the senior mamas about how awesome JetBlue was when Neeleman was around, and now there is not a glimmer of that to be found -- except within each other.

I believe there's hope that not all is lost, I'll still show up for my flights excited to give the JetBlue experience and having a better quality of life (personally) then I would've if I went to American -- but we need to see the light. Frontline crewmembers can only apologize and smile so much.

I just want to continue the same conversation from a B6 employee as well. The morale is poor, our operational numbers are poor, our vision is poor or at least in question. There’s been talk about the LR and Europe for a couple of years now and still no decision, the A220 decision was pushed back several months (the tariff decision did have something to do with that though), the cabin refresh was supposed to be done by now and we just got our 10th plane done, the change in catering was a disaster last summer, we continue to have WiFi and live tv issues, and they still believe employees will pick up the slack like years before but are unaware of the previously mentioned low morale.
There are a lot of strengths within this airline but for some reason we’re nowhere close to achieving them. The blame can be spread around but just like in most things in life, most of the blame would start at the top.
Just my opinion.



It’s not even a problem to me that they push stuff back because these are big decisions that can kill your airline. Obviously there is way more vs what us regular people know but they never tell us anything.
It would be like if you were in a plane that pushed back and started the engines and than sat there for 2 hours without a singe word of what was going on.
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:30 pm

impilot wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
iamjoeym wrote:

I couldn't agree with you more. I came to JetBlue fully knowing it wasn't unionized, because it's where I had always wanted to be and from the outside it didn't seem to be a big deal. I wanted to be apart of the culture that was built on pride and going above and beyond for customers and each other. I still love this airline and what the public perceives it to be, but with being constantly left in the dark, it has become so disheartening to see how management is slowly letting something that could be truly amazing just crumble. It's so hard to hear stories from the senior mamas about how awesome JetBlue was when Neeleman was around, and now there is not a glimmer of that to be found -- except within each other.

I believe there's hope that not all is lost, I'll still show up for my flights excited to give the JetBlue experience and having a better quality of life (personally) then I would've if I went to American -- but we need to see the light. Frontline crewmembers can only apologize and smile so much.

I just want to continue the same conversation from a B6 employee as well. The morale is poor, our operational numbers are poor, our vision is poor or at least in question. There’s been talk about the LR and Europe for a couple of years now and still no decision, the A220 decision was pushed back several months (the tariff decision did have something to do with that though), the cabin refresh was supposed to be done by now and we just got our 10th plane done, the change in catering was a disaster last summer, we continue to have WiFi and live tv issues, and they still believe employees will pick up the slack like years before but are unaware of the previously mentioned low morale.
There are a lot of strengths within this airline but for some reason we’re nowhere close to achieving them. The blame can be spread around but just like in most things in life, most of the blame would start at the top.
Just my opinion.


They are aware of the low morale. But their approach to fixing it is way off track. You can’t email a group and request high morale to come back and just “start over” as the chief pilot just did, without taking actions to reverse decisions made which resulted in the low morale in the first place. You also can’t make rules forcing culture (mandate cleaning, mandate saying hello and goodbye, mandate being the last one off under the guise of “monitoring power” while at the same time boarding without pilots is permitted, and all the other stuff employees used to do for “culture,” which is now eroded), as Joanna and team is doing. Offering pizza and barbecues while maintaining toxic and hostile culture and policies won’t result in positive morale.

Culture starts at the top. The chief pilot just explicitly said that it does not, and that it instead starts with each individual of an organization. His point and request is that the individuals at jetblue under him (pilots) need to change their outlook and mindset about employee/company relations. That shows how poor the jetblue leadership is. That’s leadership 101. Management has to own corporate culture. Middle management and upper management either need to get cleaned out, or the BoD needs to expect that nothing will change until mgmt actions and views on/knowledge of leadership changes. But JG, the chief pilot, and others in charge of the operation have shown their true colors, and nothing will change with them imo.

Not sure at what MBA program legislating goodwill, culture, and going above and beyond is taught. In all my leadership training and experience, goodwill and good culture is earned with mutual respect and caring. And I don’t know how the BoD thought it was a good idea to promote an HR background lawyer with no real leadership experience and certainly no operational experience to be the president and COO with an already struggling operation.

Neeleman was right when he said if a union shows up on property, it’s our fault...which is why more and more unions keep showing up. JetBlue has shown it doesn’t take care of its employees, and its employees, often out of self-preservation, need an organization that will take care of them...hence unionization. Many of the staunchest anti-union employees have changed their tune...not because their views on unions changed, but because the environment and management actions changed.



Dude 100000% correct
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:25 am

fastmover wrote:
impilot wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
I just want to continue the same conversation from a B6 employee as well. The morale is poor, our operational numbers are poor, our vision is poor or at least in question. There’s been talk about the LR and Europe for a couple of years now and still no decision, the A220 decision was pushed back several months (the tariff decision did have something to do with that though), the cabin refresh was supposed to be done by now and we just got our 10th plane done, the change in catering was a disaster last summer, we continue to have WiFi and live tv issues, and they still believe employees will pick up the slack like years before but are unaware of the previously mentioned low morale.
There are a lot of strengths within this airline but for some reason we’re nowhere close to achieving them. The blame can be spread around but just like in most things in life, most of the blame would start at the top.
Just my opinion.


They are aware of the low morale. But their approach to fixing it is way off track. You can’t email a group and request high morale to come back and just “start over” as the chief pilot just did, without taking actions to reverse decisions made which resulted in the low morale in the first place. You also can’t make rules forcing culture (mandate cleaning, mandate saying hello and goodbye, mandate being the last one off under the guise of “monitoring power” while at the same time boarding without pilots is permitted, and all the other stuff employees used to do for “culture,” which is now eroded), as Joanna and team is doing. Offering pizza and barbecues while maintaining toxic and hostile culture and policies won’t result in positive morale.

Culture starts at the top. The chief pilot just explicitly said that it does not, and that it instead starts with each individual of an organization. His point and request is that the individuals at jetblue under him (pilots) need to change their outlook and mindset about employee/company relations. That shows how poor the jetblue leadership is. That’s leadership 101. Management has to own corporate culture. Middle management and upper management either need to get cleaned out, or the BoD needs to expect that nothing will change until mgmt actions and views on/knowledge of leadership changes. But JG, the chief pilot, and others in charge of the operation have shown their true colors, and nothing will change with them imo.

Not sure at what MBA program legislating goodwill, culture, and going above and beyond is taught. In all my leadership training and experience, goodwill and good culture is earned with mutual respect and caring. And I don’t know how the BoD thought it was a good idea to promote an HR background lawyer with no real leadership experience and certainly no operational experience to be the president and COO with an already struggling operation.

Neeleman was right when he said if a union shows up on property, it’s our fault...which is why more and more unions keep showing up. JetBlue has shown it doesn’t take care of its employees, and its employees, often out of self-preservation, need an organization that will take care of them...hence unionization. Many of the staunchest anti-union employees have changed their tune...not because their views on unions changed, but because the environment and management actions changed.



Dude 100000% correct

1000% +1!
 
Blueknows
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:11 am

Its not even that. Its simple things like axing profit sharing. They gave employees a raise then axe profit sharing. They tell Employees well you wanted a raise so we had to cut profit sharing. They keep stations in the dark ...RIP IAD/DAB/SXM/PWM... Let the station closings begin
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8131
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 am

Blueknows wrote:
...RIP IAD/DAB/SXM/PWM... Let the station closings begin



How many times do we have to tell you? SXM is not closing....it's STX
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
axiom
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:48 am

STT757 wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
STT757 wrote:

UA is doing pretty well against WN and F9 in Denver.

Ok......so you understand that UA has been the strongest carrier in Denver for something like 75 years. Talk about legacy strength. They are THE incumbents carrier there with very strong community and business ties. That doesn’t exist in FLL. In fact it is just the opposite.


UA, and CO before, have been in FLL longer than WN.


UA is, and has long been, the weakest national player in South Florida. By a long mile. The length of their tenure amounts to very little when it comes to market share.
 
AA94
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:06 am

fastmover wrote:
The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting.


The push for cost cutting is because JetBlue needs to inflate share price. The price of $JBLU stock is the barrier that protects the airline from being acquired, and right now CASM is growing faster than RASM is. Unfortunately, there are a number of financial headwinds hitting all at once -- pilot contract ($100m in 2018 alone), E190 writedown, growing salary cost, local wage ordinances. It sucks for everyone that management is beating the drum about costs, but Wall Street wants JetBlue to prove that they can keep them under control. If investors regain confidence, share price goes up and the company gets some room to breathe and spend again. It's a tumultuous time because there are a lot of big boy aspirations that require big boy dollars, but with 5% of the domestic market, JetBlue isn't quite a big boy airline.
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:11 pm

AA94 wrote:
fastmover wrote:
The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting.


The push for cost cutting is because JetBlue needs to inflate share price. The price of $JBLU stock is the barrier that protects the airline from being acquired, and right now CASM is growing faster than RASM is. Unfortunately, there are a number of financial headwinds hitting all at once -- pilot contract ($100m in 2018 alone), E190 writedown, growing salary cost, local wage ordinances. It sucks for everyone that management is beating the drum about costs, but Wall Street wants JetBlue to prove that they can keep them under control. If investors regain confidence, share price goes up and the company gets some room to breathe and spend again. It's a tumultuous time because there are a lot of big boy aspirations that require big boy dollars, but with 5% of the domestic market, JetBlue isn't quite a big boy airline.



Definitely agree.
I also think the 220 was a great move and the 321all core is good as well. I was on a restyled 320 very nice. They actually do make good decisions they just don’t tell anyone. It just creates a vacuum which is where these UA rumors grow. They have said except to focus on the core markets like FLL and BOS this year which is good. I guess we will see.
 
av8orwalk
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:05 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:06 pm

Noticed in our bid packet for February that MCO-LAX-MCO has shifted from a red eye turn to a day turn. Leaves just after noon, arrives in LAX around 4pm then arrives back in MCO just before midnight. I think this will do very well. Hopefully well enough to bring back the red eye for 2 daily flights. Without a doubt, this should be a Mint route. Every time I work this turn at least one customer mentions that we need a premium offering. Maybe this day time flight is testing the waters. A boy can dream!
The safest place to be in an airplane crash is on the ground.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:06 pm

fastmover wrote:
AA94 wrote:
fastmover wrote:
The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting.


The push for cost cutting is because JetBlue needs to inflate share price. The price of $JBLU stock is the barrier that protects the airline from being acquired, and right now CASM is growing faster than RASM is. Unfortunately, there are a number of financial headwinds hitting all at once -- pilot contract ($100m in 2018 alone), E190 writedown, growing salary cost, local wage ordinances. It sucks for everyone that management is beating the drum about costs, but Wall Street wants JetBlue to prove that they can keep them under control. If investors regain confidence, share price goes up and the company gets some room to breathe and spend again. It's a tumultuous time because there are a lot of big boy aspirations that require big boy dollars, but with 5% of the domestic market, JetBlue isn't quite a big boy airline.



Definitely agree.
I also think the 220 was a great move and the 321all core is good as well. I was on a restyled 320 very nice. They actually do make good decisions they just don’t tell anyone. It just creates a vacuum which is where these UA rumors grow. They have said except to focus on the core markets like FLL and BOS this year which is good. I guess we will see.

Yes those are good decisions but the 220 was supposed to happen 8 months before the announcement and the cabin refresh was delayed nearly 2 years due to issues with the lavatory doors. The decisions aren’t the issue, it’s the execution of those decisions. Another example would be LGB FIS debate. As far as I know, B6 did nothing other than to ask employees to show up at meetings. No B6 sponsored public meetings or any advertising or any public appearances by management. I don’t know if they were told bad info or were just completely tone deaf on the issue but now no one knows what the future holds for LGB.
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:26 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
fastmover wrote:
AA94 wrote:

The push for cost cutting is because JetBlue needs to inflate share price. The price of $JBLU stock is the barrier that protects the airline from being acquired, and right now CASM is growing faster than RASM is. Unfortunately, there are a number of financial headwinds hitting all at once -- pilot contract ($100m in 2018 alone), E190 writedown, growing salary cost, local wage ordinances. It sucks for everyone that management is beating the drum about costs, but Wall Street wants JetBlue to prove that they can keep them under control. If investors regain confidence, share price goes up and the company gets some room to breathe and spend again. It's a tumultuous time because there are a lot of big boy aspirations that require big boy dollars, but with 5% of the domestic market, JetBlue isn't quite a big boy airline.



Definitely agree.
I also think the 220 was a great move and the 321all core is good as well. I was on a restyled 320 very nice. They actually do make good decisions they just don’t tell anyone. It just creates a vacuum which is where these UA rumors grow. They have said except to focus on the core markets like FLL and BOS this year which is good. I guess we will see.

Yes those are good decisions but the 220 was supposed to happen 8 months before the announcement and the cabin refresh was delayed nearly 2 years due to issues with the lavatory doors. The decisions aren’t the issue, it’s the execution of those decisions. Another example would be LGB FIS debate. As far as I know, B6 did nothing other than to ask employees to show up at meetings. No B6 sponsored public meetings or any advertising or any public appearances by management. I don’t know if they were told bad info or were just completely tone deaf on the issue but now no one knows what the future holds for LGB.



Oh I agree I’m just trying to not be 100% negative because people will just discount what you say. I do agree they are very very slooooow to do anything.
As for LGB I was told by the guy that worked the deal the night before they had the votes it was done. What happened at the meeting was a surprise.
But that is very much JetBlue they think they can just rest on what the brand was. Look how long it had taken to get the cabin refresh going. They want to play but they do it half way when other airlines go all in. They are simply afraid to make a mistake. With that said LGB is not the easiest airport to deal with I think there is fault on both sides.
 
NYCSKYGUY
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:12 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:07 pm

Long gone are the days of showing up and doing a good days work to get a paycheck. This is the "me" generation. A paycheck doesn't suffice, we need presents and treats much like spoiled 6 year olds to keep us happy. A delayed 220 announcement, WAAAAAAAAH! We want it now! You said 7 months ago! We want it! Forget that the tariff situation was up in the air. Europe? WE WANT IT NOW! We need an answer, forget making sound decisions that could make or break the company! WAAAAH. Management, make good decisions please.
 
NYCSKYGUY
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:12 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:07 pm

Long gone are the days of showing up and doing a good days work to get a paycheck. This is the "me" generation. A paycheck doesn't suffice, we need presents and treats much like spoiled 6 year olds to keep us happy. A delayed 220 announcement, WAAAAAAAAH! We want it now! You said 7 months ago! We want it! Forget that the tariff situation was up in the air. Europe? WE WANT IT NOW! We need an answer, forget making sound decisions that could make or break the company! WAAAAH. Management, make good decisions please.
 
evank516
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:23 pm

DAB closed today at 12:01 PM. Really sad.

Anyways, one question, when did the stuff hit the fan? Was it when Robin Hayes came in or did this start when Barger was still the CEO? Dave seemed great from the outside.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:54 pm

Jonathanxxxx wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I just realized with gov't shutdown, the fare total might not be available until that's over. bummer.


JFK and MCO are not doing great due to the PR weakness. BOS-SJU is quite profitable as a monopoly. I think they are trying to run DL off JFK-SJU/STI/SDQ. A lot of capacity next summer out of JFK. We will see. DL seems to be committed to battling B6 on certain routes even when they are bleeding money.


4x on JFK-LHR seems to be what they requested for based on one of the links i saw on BOS threads. But I don't see them getting the 7 slots they are asking for. Realistically, they will probably start off at twice a day on both routes imo. Which given B6's leisure profile in NYC, they should do okay in. There are always people willing to pay more to fly B6 out of NYC. They do really well to CLT/ATL/DEN with just 2 flights a day.


yep, agreed 100% here. I can see how UA could make B6 network out of JFK work. Why I always said WN made the most sense.


What DL is doing on BOS-PIT is unsustainable. They are getting less than half of the yield that they get on LGA-PIT. The fares are already rock bottom and now they are planning to increase capacity by 150% next summer! I can't see how that works out.

Outside of taking revenge on B6 for tanking BOS-LGA/ATL/MSP fares, I can't see any other reason for DL to stick around on this route.



That maybe the case, but B6 been poaching premium passengers from AA due to mint. And flights to places like GRU/GIG/EZE will be possible once they have a321LR (or XLR).

AA has publicly said MIA is underperforming. And we know FLL is now B6's most profitable station (at least in winter time). That would indicate they are gaining on AA in yield at So. Fla.

Maybe mini-mint with A220? I think that's more likely.

Re So. Fla, while B6 has poached some business traffic from AA, again it is primarily domestic and to a handful of destinations. B6's hub at FLL isn't comparable to what AA has at MIA. AA @ MIA is a SIGNIFICANTLY larger hub in terms of scale, capacity, destinations, etc. In almost any metric you can use, AA @ MIA eclipses B6 @ FLL. So while MIA might be currently under-performing for AA, that is primarily due to weaknesses in some of their most important markets from Miami (Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, etc.) and less to do with B6 taking some of AA's domestic traffic.


Of course AA is bigger at MIA. AA uses MIA to funnel thousands of connections North-South, and AA will always be the favorite for customers heading straight into Brickell, Downtown and the South. You are right that B6’s FLL hub and AA’s MIA hub are not comparable because of the sheer amount of people AA moves through MIA.

However, I disagree that MIA’s recent underwhelming performance for AA has little to do with B6 at FLL (and to a certain extent, WN). Both carriers have really become dominant in Broward County, and their destinations are very much catered to local O&D. FLL has become a a very viable alternative for some of SoFlo’s biggest international markets such as BOG, PTY, CUN, and HAV. Other high yielding domestic markets that AA used to have a lock on such as SoFlo-LAX/SFO/LAS are now served with more nonstops and mint from FLL, so it’s no surprise that these trunk routes aren’t printing money the way they used to for AA.

Flyers who live in between MIA and FLL in relatively affluent areas such as Sunny Isles, Aventura, Pembroke Pines etc. have traditionally driven to MIA for nonstops to the West Coast and South America (and paid a premium for it too). FLL’s recent growth has cut into that traffic.

Because of the critical mass of the AA hub, MIA will always be able to support the more obscure and exotic destinations that rely on a mix of local traffic and connections from across the country. B6 can’t replicate those traffic flows until they really build out FLL (if they choose to do so).


I'm not sure MIA's service levels and AA's performance recently has been undercut by FLL very much (it has a little across the board but not much) in most markets EXCEPT LAX and SFO where Mint seems to have had a real impact. UA dropping MIA-SFO (again) might help AA though there. FLL-SFO is back down to only one daily as well on UA. I do think if WN sticks it out at FLL and eventually adds some more business-oriented destinations, that could be problematic for AA.

As for traffic from Aventura and Sunny Isles, it's been trending toward FLL for a number of years now. Pines now also as you mention though that's happened later. Despite country lines it's easier to get to MIA from Miramar and Pembroke Pines (in Broward) than from Sunny Isles and Aventura (In Miami-Dade). I know folks in Sunny Isles that NEVER fly out of MIA. It's just easier to get to FLL if your east for much of the metro area.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3192
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:27 pm

Not sure if JetBlue was planning on releasing this anyway, or if this is related to DL's big BOS announcement a couple weeks ago, but B6 has a pretty lengthy release "reflecting" on its 15 years at BOS which otherwise is non-newsworthy (I was at least hoping for a new flight or 2 to be announced):

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... ton-Future

evank516 wrote:
DAB closed today at 12:01 PM. Really sad.

Anyways, one question, when did the stuff hit the fan? Was it when Robin Hayes came in or did this start when Barger was still the CEO? Dave seemed great from the outside.


Sad to see DAB closing, but even sadder for IAD in my opinion given their long history there. Over the years B6 had a pretty decent operation at IAD and it was apparent they were trying to make a focus city work there. Before opening DCA they flew IAD to MCO, FLL, and PBI, and they even had a decent transcon presence with flights to LGB, OAK, and even SMF. My mind might be fooling me but they may have even tried LAS/SAN at some point (don't quote me on that though). I believe a lot of this was tried before Independence Air.

It really is a shame since Northern Virginia/DC suburbs are growing rapidly, and DCA is full, so there really is nowhere else to expand in the DC area (unless B6 wants to take on WN at BWI, which they appear to be failing at given the discontinuation of BWI-FLL/MCO). I would have much rather seen B6 try to make IAD work than continue to waste money and resources at LGB, which has always been doomed to fail. At least with IAD, there would have been no limits to their expansion, with the potential for another Mint base for flights to LAX/SFO and even SAN/LAS/SEA. But I digress....

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
I'm not sure MIA's service levels and AA's performance recently has been undercut by FLL very much (it has a little across the board but not much) in most markets EXCEPT LAX and SFO where Mint seems to have had a real impact. UA dropping MIA-SFO (again) might help AA though there. FLL-SFO is back down to only one daily as well on UA. I do think if WN sticks it out at FLL and eventually adds some more business-oriented destinations, that could be problematic for AA.

As for traffic from Aventura and Sunny Isles, it's been trending toward FLL for a number of years now. Pines now also as you mention though that's happened later. Despite country lines it's easier to get to MIA from Miramar and Pembroke Pines (in Broward) than from Sunny Isles and Aventura (In Miami-Dade). I know folks in Sunny Isles that NEVER fly out of MIA. It's just easier to get to FLL if your east for much of the metro area.


I think your point on what impacts AA @ MIA is spot on. B6 commands higher yields on FLL-LAX/SFO than AA does from MIA, and potentially the same goes for NYC/BOS. But these are markets where B6 dominates from FLL and barely has to deal with WN/NK, if at all. For more competitive markets where traffic can be more easily stimulated via low fares (such as MSY or BNA or DTW or ATL), it wouldn't surprise me if AA continues to handily command fare premiums from MIA while B6/WN/NK duke it out at FLL for some fairly low yielding traffic. Now, I have no idea how that plays out outside of the domestic markets, as such fare data is difficult to come by, but I would assume a similar dynamic exists.
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:31 pm

NYCSKYGUY wrote:
Long gone are the days of showing up and doing a good days work to get a paycheck. This is the "me" generation. A paycheck doesn't suffice, we need presents and treats much like spoiled 6 year olds to keep us happy. A delayed 220 announcement, WAAAAAAAAH! We want it now! You said 7 months ago! We want it! Forget that the tariff situation was up in the air. Europe? WE WANT IT NOW! We need an answer, forget making sound decisions that could make or break the company! WAAAAH. Management, make good decisions please.



That’s not what was said at all. If wanting to know what direction the company is going makes us 6 year olds I don’t know what to tell you. Gee this darkness is so much more fun.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:38 pm

NYCSKYGUY wrote:
Long gone are the days of showing up and doing a good days work to get a paycheck. This is the "me" generation. A paycheck doesn't suffice, we need presents and treats much like spoiled 6 year olds to keep us happy. A delayed 220 announcement, WAAAAAAAAH! We want it now! You said 7 months ago! We want it! Forget that the tariff situation was up in the air. Europe? WE WANT IT NOW! We need an answer, forget making sound decisions that could make or break the company! WAAAAH. Management, make good decisions please.

Really? What presents and treats did we say we wanted exactly?
And I guess by your commentary we should just “ show up and get a paycheck”. We shouldn’t work any harder or give a damn about our company at all.
Your correct about the tariff issue, which I already stated earlier in the thread, yet Delta is going to actually be flying them later this month when B6 won’t until 2020.
I realize Europe is a very complex and important decision but then why has it been talked about for more than 2 years giving the competition ample time to prepare for it? In a internal email they even said the subject has been rumored for the last 2 years.
It’s one thing to complain about where one works but I believe myself and many others have legitimate complaints, and it’s because we do care about JetBlue.
If you disagree about B6’s performance you obviously haven’t been following their stock price the past year.
 
TheLunchbox
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:48 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
NYCSKYGUY wrote:
Long gone are the days of showing up and doing a good days work to get a paycheck. This is the "me" generation. A paycheck doesn't suffice, we need presents and treats much like spoiled 6 year olds to keep us happy. A delayed 220 announcement, WAAAAAAAAH! We want it now! You said 7 months ago! We want it! Forget that the tariff situation was up in the air. Europe? WE WANT IT NOW! We need an answer, forget making sound decisions that could make or break the company! WAAAAH. Management, make good decisions please.

Really? What presents and treats did we say we wanted exactly?
And I guess by your commentary we should just “ show up and get a paycheck”. We shouldn’t work any harder or give a damn about our company at all.
Your correct about the tariff issue, which I already stated earlier in the thread, yet Delta is going to actually be flying them later this month when B6 won’t until 2020.
I realize Europe is a very complex and important decision but then why has it been talked about for more than 2 years giving the competition ample time to prepare for it? In a internal email they even said the subject has been rumored for the last 2 years.
It’s one thing to complain about where one works but I believe myself and many others have legitimate complaints, and it’s because we do care about JetBlue.
If you disagree about B6’s performance you obviously haven’t been following their stock price the past year.


You haven't been following every single airline's stock price I guess? The industry is down as a whole. If we go up one day, everyone else is also going up and vice versa.
 
werdywerd
Posts: 598
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:40 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:33 pm

evank516 wrote:
DAB closed today at 12:01 PM. Really sad.

Anyways, one question, when did the stuff hit the fan? Was it when Robin Hayes came in or did this start when Barger was still the CEO? Dave seemed great from the outside.


Started when Dave was still around, but got 10x worse when Robin took the lead.

As a former B6 Corporate crewmember I couldn't take seeing my longtime co-workers being booted left and right and given 6 months severance "Quietly" only if an NDA was signed. This is still happening today.

B6 is getting rid of the experienced workforce and bring in lower cost new blood with little to no experience. This will be the unfortunate downfall to the airline I once shed blood sweat and tears for helping grow it since 2003.

Now when I travel (rarely) on B6, I recognize almost no one at JFK. The turnover rate is astonishing.

The Middle management as well as uppser management are HORRIBLE and many never even worked the line and have no idea how to run an airline.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:00 am

TheLunchbox wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
NYCSKYGUY wrote:
Long gone are the days of showing up and doing a good days work to get a paycheck. This is the "me" generation. A paycheck doesn't suffice, we need presents and treats much like spoiled 6 year olds to keep us happy. A delayed 220 announcement, WAAAAAAAAH! We want it now! You said 7 months ago! We want it! Forget that the tariff situation was up in the air. Europe? WE WANT IT NOW! We need an answer, forget making sound decisions that could make or break the company! WAAAAH. Management, make good decisions please.

Really? What presents and treats did we say we wanted exactly?
And I guess by your commentary we should just “ show up and get a paycheck”. We shouldn’t work any harder or give a damn about our company at all.
Your correct about the tariff issue, which I already stated earlier in the thread, yet Delta is going to actually be flying them later this month when B6 won’t until 2020.
I realize Europe is a very complex and important decision but then why has it been talked about for more than 2 years giving the competition ample time to prepare for it? In a internal email they even said the subject has been rumored for the last 2 years.
It’s one thing to complain about where one works but I believe myself and many others have legitimate complaints, and it’s because we do care about JetBlue.
If you disagree about B6’s performance you obviously haven’t been following their stock price the past year.


You haven't been following every single airline's stock price I guess? The industry is down as a whole. If we go up one day, everyone else is also going up and vice versa.

Not necessarily. I looked up the majors and was surprised by what I saw.
B6 has been on a gradual downward trajectory with the exception of a few peaks in March and November
AA had a very similar graph as B6
UA and NK both had the exact opposite actually going up most of the year.
DL resembled the Rockies. Up and down all year.
AS was similar but a bit more downward.
SW was down until August and then up and down again in December.
The December sell off of the market has bruised these stocks but it seems that Wall Street hasn’t been happy with AA or B6 most of the past year.
I don’t believe stock prices completely reflect the competence of a company but it does have some part to it.
 
User avatar
iamjoeym
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:40 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:25 am

fastmover wrote:
NYCSKYGUY wrote:
Long gone are the days of showing up and doing a good days work to get a paycheck. This is the "me" generation. A paycheck doesn't suffice, we need presents and treats much like spoiled 6 year olds to keep us happy. A delayed 220 announcement, WAAAAAAAAH! We want it now! You said 7 months ago! We want it! Forget that the tariff situation was up in the air. Europe? WE WANT IT NOW! We need an answer, forget making sound decisions that could make or break the company! WAAAAH. Management, make good decisions please.



That’s not what was said at all. If wanting to know what direction the company is going makes us 6 year olds I don’t know what to tell you. Gee this darkness is so much more fun.


This! Thank you X 1000.
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:29 am

werdywerd wrote:
evank516 wrote:
DAB closed today at 12:01 PM. Really sad.

Anyways, one question, when did the stuff hit the fan? Was it when Robin Hayes came in or did this start when Barger was still the CEO? Dave seemed great from the outside.


Started when Dave was still around, but got 10x worse when Robin took the lead.

As a former B6 Corporate crewmember I couldn't take seeing my longtime co-workers being booted left and right and given 6 months severance "Quietly" only if an NDA was signed. This is still happening today.

B6 is getting rid of the experienced workforce and bring in lower cost new blood with little to no experience. This will be the unfortunate downfall to the airline I once shed blood sweat and tears for helping grow it since 2003.

Now when I travel (rarely) on B6, I recognize almost no one at JFK. The turnover rate is astonishing.

The Middle management as well as uppser management are HORRIBLE and many never even worked the line and have no idea how to run an airline.




Costs cuts cost cuts cost cuts.
Here is a great example. We would have a hour long wait to get through to crew scheduling during an irop.
So the company got these red phones in the crew room so we would have a direct line to CS. Problem is they didn’t hire extra people so you just sat on hold but on the red phone. They soon came up with a call back solution where you could leave your number and they call you back, good idea. But it calls you back just to put you back on hold. Need to call MX please hold need to call dispatch please hold. They simply won’t staff. I fully understand a lean operation but it shouldn’t be hurting the operation in order to save money. This is everyday, every single day.
 
yonikasz
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:47 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:51 am

Galvan316 wrote:
How well does B6 do at ORD?

Not that anyone cares, but i just booked ORD-FLL for 5/4


89% load factor for last August.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:58 am

werdywerd wrote:
This will be the unfortunate downfall to the airline I once shed blood sweat and tears for helping grow it since 2003.


This is why my skin crawls when companys try to pay people in culture or future promises. B6 did it, VS did it (they were the worse perps of this), and I'm sure Moxy will be doing it.

Sacrifice, work over time, accept lower pay than your industry peers, etc.

Then get fired while the owners sell off at huge profit.

People need to not get fooled by the hype and demand to be paid in payment, not culture or any other code words. Enjoy the culture of your own homelife, family, and group of friends. Go to work and get your money. Oh, and make sure you Unionize to protect that money.
 
evank516
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:01 pm

werdywerd wrote:
evank516 wrote:
DAB closed today at 12:01 PM. Really sad.

Anyways, one question, when did the stuff hit the fan? Was it when Robin Hayes came in or did this start when Barger was still the CEO? Dave seemed great from the outside.


Started when Dave was still around, but got 10x worse when Robin took the lead.

As a former B6 Corporate crewmember I couldn't take seeing my longtime co-workers being booted left and right and given 6 months severance "Quietly" only if an NDA was signed. This is still happening today.

B6 is getting rid of the experienced workforce and bring in lower cost new blood with little to no experience. This will be the unfortunate downfall to the airline I once shed blood sweat and tears for helping grow it since 2003.

Now when I travel (rarely) on B6, I recognize almost no one at JFK. The turnover rate is astonishing.

The Middle management as well as uppser management are HORRIBLE and many never even worked the line and have no idea how to run an airline.


That's what made me wonder. Things really came out of the woodwork with B6 after Robin took the lead, and I'm really not his biggest fan. How late in Dave's tenure did this start?

I am SO glad they didn't hire me last year. I was so close and so disappointed only to hear of many issues going on in LSC where I was so relieved it didn't pan out.
 
TheLunchbox
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:17 pm

You all really need to start a JetBlue Grievance Thread and keep the Network thread on topic
 
trueblew
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:20 pm

werdywerd wrote:
evank516 wrote:
DAB closed today at 12:01 PM. Really sad.

Anyways, one question, when did the stuff hit the fan? Was it when Robin Hayes came in or did this start when Barger was still the CEO? Dave seemed great from the outside.


Started when Dave was still around, but got 10x worse when Robin took the lead.

As a former B6 Corporate crewmember I couldn't take seeing my longtime co-workers being booted left and right and given 6 months severance "Quietly" only if an NDA was signed. This is still happening today.

B6 is getting rid of the experienced workforce and bring in lower cost new blood with little to no experience. This will be the unfortunate downfall to the airline I once shed blood sweat and tears for helping grow it since 2003.

Now when I travel (rarely) on B6, I recognize almost no one at JFK. The turnover rate is astonishing.

The Middle management as well as uppser management are HORRIBLE and many never even worked the line and have no idea how to run an airline.


Agree 100%. A change in management at all levels is the only thing that can turn B6 around.
 
trueblew
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:23 pm

TheLunchbox wrote:
You all really need to start a JetBlue Grievance Thread and keep the Network thread on topic



There won't be a network to discuss if they keep running the place as they are.
 
evank516
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:26 pm

trueblew wrote:
werdywerd wrote:
evank516 wrote:
DAB closed today at 12:01 PM. Really sad.

Anyways, one question, when did the stuff hit the fan? Was it when Robin Hayes came in or did this start when Barger was still the CEO? Dave seemed great from the outside.


Started when Dave was still around, but got 10x worse when Robin took the lead.

As a former B6 Corporate crewmember I couldn't take seeing my longtime co-workers being booted left and right and given 6 months severance "Quietly" only if an NDA was signed. This is still happening today.

B6 is getting rid of the experienced workforce and bring in lower cost new blood with little to no experience. This will be the unfortunate downfall to the airline I once shed blood sweat and tears for helping grow it since 2003.

Now when I travel (rarely) on B6, I recognize almost no one at JFK. The turnover rate is astonishing.

The Middle management as well as uppser management are HORRIBLE and many never even worked the line and have no idea how to run an airline.


Agree 100%. A change in management at all levels is the only thing that can turn B6 around.


Wonder if Robin is going to last much longer?
 
User avatar
pitbosflyer
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:06 pm

TheLunchbox wrote:
You all really need to start a JetBlue Grievance Thread and keep the Network thread on topic


I agree.... Guys we get that you are all disgruntled with how the company is currently being run!!
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:50 pm

TheLunchbox wrote:
You all really need to start a JetBlue Grievance Thread and keep the Network thread on topic



Valid point.

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