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FARmd90
Posts: 403
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:38 am

tphuang wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:

With the Cuba and MEX drawdown, in addition to much of the network optimization that has already occurred, it appears that B6 will enter 2020 in pretty lean shape.

holding out hopes they will cut some of the HAV stuff.
It’s also promising that B6 is seeing some relief DL on BOS-Florida (in addition to the recent trims from WN and NK). Interestingly B6 has never placed an A321 on BOS-FLL while they are used heavily on BOS/JFK--FLL/MCO/PBI/RSW. I wonder why?

If JFKSJO does well then maybe B6 could give it a shot from BOS.

The use of non-Mint aircraft to increase frequency on JFK/BOS-SAN and BOS/FLL-SFO is an interesting strategy. It allows them to further build relevance in those markets while not flooding the market with more premium capacity. Although, I think these markets (particularly SFO) could absorb additional Mint seats without pressuring yields too much.

I see in May, they have 2x A321 and 3x A320 on BOS-FLL. I see A321s now on all BOS-FLL/TPA/MCO/PBI/RSW, which is a huge change over even a year ago when it was pretty much just on MCO. Speaking of MCO, I see now 3x A321, 6x A320, 1x E90 in April. That's a lot of flights + capacity. I can't believe both NK and F9 are on that route. The only ones without A321 are JAX/SRQ. I don't expect those to get A321s before JFK-JAX/SRQ.

Also a note from our BOS thread discussion, I'm reading enough E90 chatters that I think there is a pretty good chance the 30 owned E90 will stick around past 2025. Well, at least a good number of them, let's say 20. And those have the right capacity for BOS shuttle routes and should be able to do quicker turns than A220. A220 options should be for good amount of growth + A320 replacement. And if they keep E90, not much point in picking up A220-100.

Midwestindy wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
With the Cuba and MEX drawdown, in addition to much of the network optimization that has already occurred, it appears that B6 will enter 2020 in pretty lean shape.


Would love to see B6 use this additional capacity to add IND-BOS, but I'm not holding my breath

An April to early May start would probably need to be announced by 2nd week of December at the latest. With these Cuba/MEX cuts, it's as good time as any.


DELTA777 wrote:
This would be interesting:

Exclusive: Brazil to lure airlines to fly domestic, taking meetings with three carriers

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-braz ... SKBN1X60O6


B6 operating domestic flights within Brazil? hmmmmm, I don't know about that idea


Maybe this will lead to them operating FLL to Brazil down the road.



If that’s the case with the 190s sticking around I hope they decide soon to get the ball rolling on a cabin refresh for the fleet. Same as the 320s; new seats/TVs, better WiFi, and mood lighting. The 190s are starting to look just as bad as the older 320s and things aren’t getting fixed.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:28 am

They are not refreshing e190s
 
Blueknows
Posts: 416
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:29 am

They are going to sell or part them all out as soon as possible 1 for 1 for the a220
 
FARmd90
Posts: 403
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:52 am

Blueknows wrote:
They are going to sell or part them all out as soon as possible 1 for 1 for the a220


Right I know that. But if the rumor going around (on here at least) is true of B6 keeping the 190s around a little longer. I hope they decide to give them a face lift if they do stay.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:04 pm

They are not, we are going to have them until 2025. The company is not spending any money on refresh. They wanted them gone earlier but A220 are late. They are just running them to they pretty much fall apart, witch is Mx almost everyday on these things.
 
HIA350
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:51 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:29 pm

Quick Question, is Jetblue for sale, i keep reading about how south west should buy b6?
 
tphuang
Posts: 5702
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:47 pm

FARmd90 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
They are going to sell or part them all out as soon as possible 1 for 1 for the a220


Right I know that. But if the rumor going around (on here at least) is true of B6 keeping the 190s around a little longer. I hope they decide to give them a face lift if they do stay.

I wouldn't take anything he says seriously.
HIA350 wrote:
Quick Question, is Jetblue for sale, i keep reading about how south west should buy b6?

I would imagine there is a price for an airline the size of JetBlue. It certainly has plenty of attractive asset depending on who you are. Whether another airline would value those assets as highly as JBLU' board is a different story. They certainly wouldn't be sold unless it's a huge premium over the current market valuation.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:30 pm

HIA350 wrote:
Quick Question, is Jetblue for sale, i keep reading about how south west should buy b6?


I would lose all faith in our justice dept if WN was allowed to eliminate another competitor... Go see how much of FL's network is left.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:09 pm

tphuang wrote:
Also a note from our BOS thread discussion, I'm reading enough E90 chatters that I think there is a pretty good chance the 30 owned E90 will stick around past 2025. Well, at least a good number of them, let's say 20. And those have the right capacity for BOS shuttle routes and should be able to do quicker turns than A220. A220 options should be for good amount of growth + A320 replacement. And if they keep E90, not much point in picking up A220-100.


When will they make this announcement, presumably on the 4Q earnings call when they give FY2020 guidance? As per last November's investor day, the 30 owned E90s were going to be the first to leave the fleet, starting in 2020.

Seems crazy to keep 3 fleet types, but whatever floats their boat.
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:09 pm

duplicate
 
Blueknows
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:17 pm

Yah that 30 owned gone in 2020 is incorrect. B6 was supposed to get 1 A220 in September, and 4 next year. Due to delays B6 received 0 a220, and will right now get 1 A220 next year. The e190s will be around till 2025. B6 is also about 7 neos short from the 14 they were supposed to get this year. Yesterday after 3Q Steve priest went to airbus to find out about delays. B6 is buying back 800 million shares. They are hoping it will raise stock to the 20.00 they promised investors.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6142
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:24 pm

Lots of aircraft time coming up next month

MEX ends

Cuba secondary ends

Good time to make a run at EWR gates from WN
 
tphuang
Posts: 5702
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:29 pm

heavymetal wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Also a note from our BOS thread discussion, I'm reading enough E90 chatters that I think there is a pretty good chance the 30 owned E90 will stick around past 2025. Well, at least a good number of them, let's say 20. And those have the right capacity for BOS shuttle routes and should be able to do quicker turns than A220. A220 options should be for good amount of growth + A320 replacement. And if they keep E90, not much point in picking up A220-100.


When will they make this announcement, presumably on the 4Q earnings call when they give FY2020 guidance? As per last November's investor day, the 30 owned E90s were going to be the first to leave the fleet, starting in 2020.

Seems crazy to keep 3 fleet types, but whatever floats their boat.


All of this is speculations, but there seem to be some chatters in this direction. At this point, they need to decide what to use to run those shuttle routes and they've not made any decison on A220-100. If you've seen how long it takes JetBlue to make any kind of changes to their fleet, it shouldn't surprise anyone if they drag E90's stay in their fleet. Jut check the delays on A320 reconfig, the delay in A220 introduction (only 1 next year vs I think 5 in original schedule), pushing back A321NEO by a year, the long time it took to make the A321LR decision and the long time it took to A220 decision.

It's a huge waste of A220-300 to put them on those BOS shuttle/low capacity routes (BOS-DCA/NYC/PHL/BUF/SYR/ROC, FLL-JAX).
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:45 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Yah that 30 owned gone in 2020 is incorrect. B6 was supposed to get 1 A220 in September, and 4 next year. Due to delays B6 received 0 a220, and will right now get 1 A220 next year. The e190s will be around till 2025. B6 is also about 7 neos short from the 14 they were supposed to get this year. Yesterday after 3Q Steve priest went to airbus to find out about delays. B6 is buying back 800 million shares. They are hoping it will raise stock to the 20.00 they promised investors.


Owned E90 retirement was supposed to be starting in 2020, not all 30 owned gone in 2020. What do you mean by "is incorrect"? Have they provided more recent or updated guidance on this? As of the fleet udpate, the 30 owned were going to be retired ahead of the 30 leased.

Where are you getting the 1 A220 in September (2019?), and 4 next year (2020?). For every investor presentation in 2019, they have clearly shown 1 A220 delivery in 2020, and 6 in 2021. That could still be delayed, but your use of "received" implies that they were supposed to have a delivery this year which was not received - which they've never shown.

As FYI - they have authorization to repurchase 800 million dollars worth of shares, not 800 million shares (which they don't even have). Big difference. At current share price of $19.71, that's about 41 to 42 million shares.
 
HIA350
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:51 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:46 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Lots of aircraft time coming up next month

MEX ends

Cuba secondary ends

Good time to make a run at EWR gates from WN


I was waiting for them to take over those slots but F9 jumped on it like a kangaroo
 
Blueknows
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:38 pm

heavymetal wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Yah that 30 owned gone in 2020 is incorrect. B6 was supposed to get 1 A220 in September, and 4 next year. Due to delays B6 received 0 a220, and will right now get 1 A220 next year. The e190s will be around till 2025. B6 is also about 7 neos short from the 14 they were supposed to get this year. Yesterday after 3Q Steve priest went to airbus to find out about delays. B6 is buying back 800 million shares. They are hoping it will raise stock to the 20.00 they promised investors.


Owned E90 retirement was supposed to be starting in 2020, not all 30 owned gone in 2020. What do you mean by "is incorrect"? Have they provided more recent or updated guidance on this? As of the fleet udpate, the 30 owned were going to be retired ahead of the 30 leased.

Where are you getting the 1 A220 in September (2019?), and 4 next year (2020?). For every investor presentation in 2019, they have clearly shown 1 A220 delivery in 2020, and 6 in 2021. That could still be delayed, but your use of "received" implies that they were supposed to have a delivery this year which was not received - which they've never shown.

As FYI - they have authorization to repurchase 800 million dollars worth of shares, not 800 million shares (which they don't even have). Big difference. At current share price of $19.71, that's about 41 to 42 million shares.

The e190 time line is wrong B6 originally supposed to get 1 A220 September 2019, and 4 A220 in 2020. They are late and now e190 are pushed back to 2025 when last e190 will go. Doing a 1 for 1 swap with the A220. What they tell investors and employees are two different things. Thanks for the stock correction
 
LOT767301ER
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:14 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:39 pm

I was waiting for them to take over those slots but F9 jumped on it like a kangaroo


No they didnt, F9 is using off-peak times (pre-1330)
 
Blueknows
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:39 pm

So next year 1 A220 and getting rid of 1 e190
 
trueblew
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:26 pm

tphuang wrote:
heavymetal wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Also a note from our BOS thread discussion, I'm reading enough E90 chatters that I think there is a pretty good chance the 30 owned E90 will stick around past 2025. Well, at least a good number of them, let's say 20. And those have the right capacity for BOS shuttle routes and should be able to do quicker turns than A220. A220 options should be for good amount of growth + A320 replacement. And if they keep E90, not much point in picking up A220-100.


When will they make this announcement, presumably on the 4Q earnings call when they give FY2020 guidance? As per last November's investor day, the 30 owned E90s were going to be the first to leave the fleet, starting in 2020.

Seems crazy to keep 3 fleet types, but whatever floats their boat.


All of this is speculations, but there seem to be some chatters in this direction. At this point, they need to decide what to use to run those shuttle routes and they've not made any decison on A220-100. If you've seen how long it takes JetBlue to make any kind of changes to their fleet, it shouldn't surprise anyone if they drag E90's stay in their fleet. Jut check the delays on A320 reconfig, the delay in A220 introduction (only 1 next year vs I think 5 in original schedule), pushing back A321NEO by a year, the long time it took to make the A321LR decision and the long time it took to A220 decision.

It's a huge waste of A220-300 to put them on those BOS shuttle/low capacity routes (BOS-DCA/NYC/PHL/BUF/SYR/ROC, FLL-JAX).


I have also heard this chatter. They certainly want to reduce the fleet--engine maintenance on the CF34-8 is one of the largest cost issues with this plane--but if they were to send back the lease expirations as they occur, the fleet CASM will necessarily drop as lease payments are removed, correct? There are many routes on which the 223/320 are not appropriate (e.g., JFK/LGA/BOS/HPN to ACK) where the 223 is too much plane in capacity and in some cases physical footprint for the terminals. Also, second-hand 190s are impossible to sell. Once they are parked they are worthless. I predict 20-30 190s remain until B6 runs out of markets to send them to and/or maintenance costs become unsustainable.
 
unusualattitude
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:49 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:25 pm

Blueknows wrote:
heavymetal wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Yah that 30 owned gone in 2020 is incorrect. B6 was supposed to get 1 A220 in September, and 4 next year. Due to delays B6 received 0 a220, and will right now get 1 A220 next year. The e190s will be around till 2025. B6 is also about 7 neos short from the 14 they were supposed to get this year. Yesterday after 3Q Steve priest went to airbus to find out about delays. B6 is buying back 800 million shares. They are hoping it will raise stock to the 20.00 they promised investors.


Owned E90 retirement was supposed to be starting in 2020, not all 30 owned gone in 2020. What do you mean by "is incorrect"? Have they provided more recent or updated guidance on this? As of the fleet udpate, the 30 owned were going to be retired ahead of the 30 leased.

Where are you getting the 1 A220 in September (2019?), and 4 next year (2020?). For every investor presentation in 2019, they have clearly shown 1 A220 delivery in 2020, and 6 in 2021. That could still be delayed, but your use of "received" implies that they were supposed to have a delivery this year which was not received - which they've never shown.

As FYI - they have authorization to repurchase 800 million dollars worth of shares, not 800 million shares (which they don't even have). Big difference. At current share price of $19.71, that's about 41 to 42 million shares.

The e190 time line is wrong B6 originally supposed to get 1 A220 September 2019, and 4 A220 in 2020. They are late and now e190 are pushed back to 2025 when last e190 will go. Doing a 1 for 1 swap with the A220. What they tell investors and employees are two different things. Thanks for the stock correction


They were never going to get any A220's in 2019. The first one was always 2020 and it's been pushed off until 2021 likely. Every investor day and earnings call presentation backs this up. Hell they aren't even that far along in the training program, they could never have taken one this year. You and facts are like oil and water. I wish you would stay out of these B6 threads.
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:26 pm

Blueknows wrote:
heavymetal wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Yah that 30 owned gone in 2020 is incorrect. B6 was supposed to get 1 A220 in September, and 4 next year. Due to delays B6 received 0 a220, and will right now get 1 A220 next year. The e190s will be around till 2025. B6 is also about 7 neos short from the 14 they were supposed to get this year. Yesterday after 3Q Steve priest went to airbus to find out about delays. B6 is buying back 800 million shares. They are hoping it will raise stock to the 20.00 they promised investors.


Owned E90 retirement was supposed to be starting in 2020, not all 30 owned gone in 2020. What do you mean by "is incorrect"? Have they provided more recent or updated guidance on this? As of the fleet udpate, the 30 owned were going to be retired ahead of the 30 leased.

Where are you getting the 1 A220 in September (2019?), and 4 next year (2020?). For every investor presentation in 2019, they have clearly shown 1 A220 delivery in 2020, and 6 in 2021. That could still be delayed, but your use of "received" implies that they were supposed to have a delivery this year which was not received - which they've never shown.

As FYI - they have authorization to repurchase 800 million dollars worth of shares, not 800 million shares (which they don't even have). Big difference. At current share price of $19.71, that's about 41 to 42 million shares.

The e190 time line is wrong B6 originally supposed to get 1 A220 September 2019, and 4 A220 in 2020. They are late and now e190 are pushed back to 2025 when last e190 will go. Doing a 1 for 1 swap with the A220. What they tell investors and employees are two different things. Thanks for the stock correction


Again, what does it mean "wrong"? The last E90 lease return has always been in 2025, so nothing was "pushed back to 2025".

trueblew wrote:
tphuang wrote:
heavymetal wrote:

When will they make this announcement, presumably on the 4Q earnings call when they give FY2020 guidance? As per last November's investor day, the 30 owned E90s were going to be the first to leave the fleet, starting in 2020.

Seems crazy to keep 3 fleet types, but whatever floats their boat.


All of this is speculations, but there seem to be some chatters in this direction. At this point, they need to decide what to use to run those shuttle routes and they've not made any decison on A220-100. If you've seen how long it takes JetBlue to make any kind of changes to their fleet, it shouldn't surprise anyone if they drag E90's stay in their fleet. Jut check the delays on A320 reconfig, the delay in A220 introduction (only 1 next year vs I think 5 in original schedule), pushing back A321NEO by a year, the long time it took to make the A321LR decision and the long time it took to A220 decision.

It's a huge waste of A220-300 to put them on those BOS shuttle/low capacity routes (BOS-DCA/NYC/PHL/BUF/SYR/ROC, FLL-JAX).


I have also heard this chatter. They certainly want to reduce the fleet--engine maintenance on the CF34-8 is one of the largest cost issues with this plane--but if they were to send back the lease expirations as they occur, the fleet CASM will necessarily drop as lease payments are removed, correct? There are many routes on which the 223/320 are not appropriate (e.g., JFK/LGA/BOS/HPN to ACK) where the 223 is too much plane in capacity and in some cases physical footprint for the terminals. Also, second-hand 190s are impossible to sell. Once they are parked they are worthless. I predict 20-30 190s remain until B6 runs out of markets to send them to and/or maintenance costs become unsustainable.


Returning leases would reduce CASM, but the leases have scheduled expiries in 2023, 2024, and 2025, so you'd either have to pay the leasing company a lump sum to return them early and take big CASM hit, or wait until their scheduled expiry.

tphuang wrote:
heavymetal wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Also a note from our BOS thread discussion, I'm reading enough E90 chatters that I think there is a pretty good chance the 30 owned E90 will stick around past 2025. Well, at least a good number of them, let's say 20. And those have the right capacity for BOS shuttle routes and should be able to do quicker turns than A220. A220 options should be for good amount of growth + A320 replacement. And if they keep E90, not much point in picking up A220-100.


When will they make this announcement, presumably on the 4Q earnings call when they give FY2020 guidance? As per last November's investor day, the 30 owned E90s were going to be the first to leave the fleet, starting in 2020.

Seems crazy to keep 3 fleet types, but whatever floats their boat.


All of this is speculations, but there seem to be some chatters in this direction. At this point, they need to decide what to use to run those shuttle routes and they've not made any decison on A220-100. If you've seen how long it takes JetBlue to make any kind of changes to their fleet, it shouldn't surprise anyone if they drag E90's stay in their fleet. Jut check the delays on A320 reconfig, the delay in A220 introduction (only 1 next year vs I think 5 in original schedule), pushing back A321NEO by a year, the long time it took to make the A321LR decision and the long time it took to A220 decision.

It's a huge waste of A220-300 to put them on those BOS shuttle/low capacity routes (BOS-DCA/NYC/PHL/BUF/SYR/ROC, FLL-JAX).


Why do you say A220-300's are a huge waste on the shuttle routes, because of their performance capabilities? If so, the same is true globally of A320s and 737s. The vast majority of markets are well below their capabilities. If not, I'd be curious to learn why you think this is a mistake.

Because of the large labor cost difference, a legacy E75 or CR9 CASM is probably more competitive with JetBlue's E90 CASM than it should be, which is a big problem. Deploying the A220-300 here is an automatic competitive advantage, especially if we believe the premise that the A220-300 and E90 have the same operating expenses. I assume this is also why Delta's A220's are rumored to be capped at 1,000 mi. In exchange for taking a reduced capability aircraft, they got a significant discount on the price. They don't need the capability, so they're not paying for it.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5702
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:45 pm

it's a huge waste because the margin gain from replacing E90s with A220-300 is smaller than it would be replacing routes like BOS-ATL with A220-300. Something like BOS-ATL/MSP would automatically go from huge money losing route to almost sustainable the moment they get switched to A220-300. A220-300 will ideally be used as a combination of new opportunities, A320 replacement and E90 replacement. The most ideal E90 replacement are on routes that already see a mixture of E90/A320 and/or face mainline competition like BOS-ATL/MSP/ORD/BWI/BNA/RDU. There are also quite a few longer range routes that don't get the necessary yield on 162 seat A320, but are also too far for E90 to operate economically right now. In fact, B6 specifically pointed out BOS-AUS/MSY as routes that make more sense on A220-300. So I would also add DFW/IAH on top of that. For routes that require high frequency that they would need heavy discounting to fill 140 seats like the shuttle routes, keeping all paid for E90 is not a terrible idea.

As for DL, I believe their A220 are not capped after the Boeing case failed.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:00 pm

unusualattitude wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
heavymetal wrote:

Owned E90 retirement was supposed to be starting in 2020, not all 30 owned gone in 2020. What do you mean by "is incorrect"? Have they provided more recent or updated guidance on this? As of the fleet udpate, the 30 owned were going to be retired ahead of the 30 leased.

Where are you getting the 1 A220 in September (2019?), and 4 next year (2020?). For every investor presentation in 2019, they have clearly shown 1 A220 delivery in 2020, and 6 in 2021. That could still be delayed, but your use of "received" implies that they were supposed to have a delivery this year which was not received - which they've never shown.

I was sitting in the conference room when we talked about it. B6 was supposed to receive 1 A220 September 2019, and it would be in service by mid November 2019. They then said with delays that this was probably not going to happen. They said it looked more like 2020 but didn’t have exact numbers of how many. What they tell investors is not what they tell employees in one on one sessions.

As FYI - they have authorization to repurchase 800 million dollars worth of shares, not 800 million shares (which they don't even have). Big difference. At current share price of $19.71, that's about 41 to 42 million shares.

The e190 time line is wrong B6 originally supposed to get 1 A220 September 2019, and 4 A220 in 2020. They are late and now e190 are pushed back to 2025 when last e190 will go. Doing a 1 for 1 swap with the A220. What they tell investors and employees are two different things. Thanks for the stock correction


They were never going to get any A220's in 2019. The first one was always 2020 and it's been pushed off until 2021 likely. Every investor day and earnings call presentation backs this up. Hell they aren't even that far along in the training program, they could never have taken one this year. You and facts are like oil and water. I wish you would stay out of these B6 threads.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:02 pm

I was sitting in the conference room when we talked about it. B6 was supposed to receive 1 A220 September 2019, and it would be in service by mid November 2019. They then said with delays that this was probably not going to happen. They said it looked more like 2020 but didn’t have exact numbers of how many. What they tell investors is not what they tell employees in one on one sessions
 
11C
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:48 pm

Blueknows wrote:
I was sitting in the conference room when we talked about it. B6 was supposed to receive 1 A220 September 2019, and it would be in service by mid November 2019. They then said with delays that this was probably not going to happen. They said it looked more like 2020 but didn’t have exact numbers of how many. What they tell investors is not what they tell employees in one on one sessions

I think you were in the wrong conference room that day.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:20 pm

Wow... I guess I’ve been working for the wrong company for the past 5 years then
 
tphuang
Posts: 5702
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:23 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Wow... I guess I’ve been working for the wrong company for the past 5 years then

If you check their original e90 replacement presentation, it clearly said the first delivery is 2020. It's on their website. They moved deliveries back, so now it's only 1 a220 in 2020 instead of 5 and 6 in 2021 instead of 4.
 
mia
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:40 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:33 pm

Whats to stop Jetblue from re-allocating the flights to say, run a focus city out of New Orleans. MSY-JFK, BOS, FLL (existing) + LGA, HOU, ATL, DFW, MCO, SFO, DEN, AUS, ORD, CUN.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
Blueknows
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:34 pm

Jesus you won’t let this go. It’s was supposed to
Be here in September and ready to roll in November. This was original plan. Then airbus told them about delays and they knew they wouldn’t get the aircraft early. They had to push back arrival to 2020 to fit with 2020 goals as they did with the neos. They are called TLC meetings where corporate comes to stations talks about plans. That’s when we find out about new projects etc. ask any B6 employee and they will tell you.
 
Blueballs
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:21 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:57 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Jesus you won’t let this go. It’s was supposed to
Be here in September and ready to roll in November. This was original plan. Then airbus told them about delays and they knew they wouldn’t get the aircraft early. They had to push back arrival to 2020 to fit with 2020 goals as they did with the neos. They are called TLC meetings where corporate comes to stations talks about plans. That’s when we find out about new projects etc. ask any B6 employee and they will tell you.

I’m a Jetblue employee. Been here a lot longer than you have though. You’ve been wrong every time you post. This is why you have no credibility. Brush it off and move on. Those meetings where corporate comes around are bs just to keep low level employees filled with blue juice. Give it time and you’ll mature enough to understand the JetBlue the rest of us know
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:05 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Jesus you won’t let this go. It’s was supposed to
Be here in September and ready to roll in November. This was original plan. Then airbus told them about delays and they knew they wouldn’t get the aircraft early. They had to push back arrival to 2020 to fit with 2020 goals as they did with the neos. They are called TLC meetings where corporate comes to stations talks about plans. That’s when we find out about new projects etc. ask any B6 employee and they will tell you.


When was the "TLC meeting"?
 
unusualattitude
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:49 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:08 pm

Blueballs wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Jesus you won’t let this go. It’s was supposed to
Be here in September and ready to roll in November. This was original plan. Then airbus told them about delays and they knew they wouldn’t get the aircraft early. They had to push back arrival to 2020 to fit with 2020 goals as they did with the neos. They are called TLC meetings where corporate comes to stations talks about plans. That’s when we find out about new projects etc. ask any B6 employee and they will tell you.

I’m a Jetblue employee. Been here a lot longer than you have though. You’ve been wrong every time you post. This is why you have no credibility. Brush it off and move on. Those meetings where corporate comes around are bs just to keep low level employees filled with blue juice. Give it time and you’ll mature enough to understand the JetBlue the rest of us know


100% spot on. BK must be very new in the industry to believe that anything said during those corporate rah rah speeches. The original schedule of deliveries released in SEC filings and investors days are factual. Anything else is dribble unless you are in a C suite or fleet planning meeting, even then you probably should not be broadcasting things like that to the public. Could put your job in jeopardy.
 
CaptCoolHand
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:20 pm

Blueballs wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Jesus you won’t let this go. It’s was supposed to
Be here in September and ready to roll in November. This was original plan. Then airbus told them about delays and they knew they wouldn’t get the aircraft early. They had to push back arrival to 2020 to fit with 2020 goals as they did with the neos. They are called TLC meetings where corporate comes to stations talks about plans. That’s when we find out about new projects etc. ask any B6 employee and they will tell you.

I’m a Jetblue employee. Been here a lot longer than you have though. You’ve been wrong every time you post. This is why you have no credibility. Brush it off and move on. Those meetings where corporate comes around are bs just to keep low level employees filled with blue juice. Give it time and you’ll mature enough to understand the JetBlue the rest of us know


This guy gets it.

Sooo yea. Don’t believe anything you hear in a TLC meeting. Ever. The sooner you figure that out the better your posts will be. Most of us know enough by now that unless it’s in a 10k or an investor report it’s not real, never happened, and you can’t prove it.
 
11C
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:33 pm

CaptCoolHand wrote:
Blueballs wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Jesus you won’t let this go. It’s was supposed to
Be here in September and ready to roll in November. This was original plan. Then airbus told them about delays and they knew they wouldn’t get the aircraft early. They had to push back arrival to 2020 to fit with 2020 goals as they did with the neos. They are called TLC meetings where corporate comes to stations talks about plans. That’s when we find out about new projects etc. ask any B6 employee and they will tell you.

I’m a Jetblue employee. Been here a lot longer than you have though. You’ve been wrong every time you post. This is why you have no credibility. Brush it off and move on. Those meetings where corporate comes around are bs just to keep low level employees filled with blue juice. Give it time and you’ll mature enough to understand the JetBlue the rest of us know


This guy gets it.

Sooo yea. Don’t believe anything you hear in a TLC meeting. Ever. The sooner you figure that out the better your posts will be. Most of us know enough by now that unless it’s in a 10k or an investor report it’s not real, never happened, and you can’t prove it.


There’s the key, read the transcripts of the earnings calls. Even there you will hear frustration and pushback from the analysts about certain topics (cba negotiations was one area where the company gave virtually no guidance). The company isn’t very forthcoming. The stuff employees are fed is a lot of fluff (just to be nice), but the aircraft delivery schedule gets a mention virtually every time there is an earnings call. And they have been pretty transparent on at least that issue.
 
flyby519
Posts: 1583
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:27 pm

CaptCoolHand wrote:
Blueballs wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Jesus you won’t let this go. It’s was supposed to
Be here in September and ready to roll in November. This was original plan. Then airbus told them about delays and they knew they wouldn’t get the aircraft early. They had to push back arrival to 2020 to fit with 2020 goals as they did with the neos. They are called TLC meetings where corporate comes to stations talks about plans. That’s when we find out about new projects etc. ask any B6 employee and they will tell you.

I’m a Jetblue employee. Been here a lot longer than you have though. You’ve been wrong every time you post. This is why you have no credibility. Brush it off and move on. Those meetings where corporate comes around are bs just to keep low level employees filled with blue juice. Give it time and you’ll mature enough to understand the JetBlue the rest of us know


This guy gets it.

Sooo yea. Don’t believe anything you hear in a TLC meeting. Ever. The sooner you figure that out the better your posts will be. Most of us know enough by now that unless it’s in a 10k or an investor report it’s not real, never happened, and you can’t prove it.


Wait a minute, they told us we were supposed to be flying to TLV and Africa by now with widebodies?!
 
jplatts
Posts: 3938
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:40 pm

mia wrote:
Whats to stop Jetblue from re-allocating the flights to say, run a focus city out of New Orleans. MSY-JFK, BOS, FLL (existing) + LGA, HOU, ATL, DFW, MCO, SFO, DEN, AUS, ORD, CUN.


B6 already moved its Houston operations over to IAH on Sunday.

Most of the other places you mentioned such as LGA, ATL, DFW, MCO, DEN, AUS, ORD, and CUN are already served nonstop out of MSY on WN, F9, or NK. In addition, many of those traveling to MSY from most of these markets prefer to do so on airlines other than B6.
 
CaptCoolHand
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:59 pm

What’s to make of this? Defensive move?
Why buy back stock only to mortgage assets?

https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edga ... getcompany
 
tphuang
Posts: 5702
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:13 pm

CaptCoolHand wrote:
https://www.moodys.com/sites/products/productattachments/ap075378_1_1408_ki.pdf

What’s to make of this? Defensive move?
Why buy back stock only to mortgage assets?


interest rate is really low right now. Not a bad idea to take out a loan given how strong their balance sheet is.

Every year more shares get issued and then floated due to people that received stock compensations selling them into open market, which dilute stock value. So stock buybacks are needed to reduce the outstanding shares and boost prices. Pretty normal practice. I don't know how many JetBlue employees have good chunk of their investment or 401K in JBLU stocks, but not doing stock buybacks would be terrible for their holdings.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:52 pm

 
mia
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:40 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:48 pm

jplatts wrote:
Most of the other places you mentioned such as LGA, ATL, DFW, MCO, DEN, AUS, ORD, and CUN are already served nonstop out of MSY on WN, F9, or NK. In addition, many of those traveling to MSY from most of these markets prefer to do so on airlines other than B6.


..and some people think cucumbers taste better when pickled.

They have potential in MSY to develop new markets. Not that its ever going to happen.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
trueblew
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
https://www.moodys.com/sites/products/productattachments/ap075378_1_1408_ki.pdf

What’s to make of this? Defensive move?
Why buy back stock only to mortgage assets?


interest rate is really low right now. Not a bad idea to take out a loan given how strong their balance sheet is.

Every year more shares get issued and then floated due to people that received stock compensations selling them into open market, which dilute stock value. So stock buybacks are needed to reduce the outstanding shares and boost prices. Pretty normal practice. I don't know how many JetBlue employees have good chunk of their investment or 401K in JBLU stocks, but not doing stock buybacks would be terrible for their holdings.


An insider told me they secured a rate of 2.79% on the new debt. Really low indeed.
 
heretothere
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:50 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:23 pm

trueblew wrote:
tphuang wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
https://www.moodys.com/sites/products/productattachments/ap075378_1_1408_ki.pdf

What’s to make of this? Defensive move?
Why buy back stock only to mortgage assets?


interest rate is really low right now. Not a bad idea to take out a loan given how strong their balance sheet is.

Every year more shares get issued and then floated due to people that received stock compensations selling them into open market, which dilute stock value. So stock buybacks are needed to reduce the outstanding shares and boost prices. Pretty normal practice. I don't know how many JetBlue employees have good chunk of their investment or 401K in JBLU stocks, but not doing stock buybacks would be terrible for their holdings.


An insider told me they secured a rate of 2.79% on the new debt. Really low indeed.


Lol, you don’t need an insider, it’s all there in the SEC filings:

http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... F&hasPdf=1
 
Bluewho
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:16 pm

jplatts wrote:
mia wrote:
Whats to stop Jetblue from re-allocating the flights to say, run a focus city out of New Orleans. MSY-JFK, BOS, FLL (existing) + LGA, HOU, ATL, DFW, MCO, SFO, DEN, AUS, ORD, CUN.


B6 already moved its Houston operations over to IAH on Sunday.

Most of the other places you mentioned such as LGA, ATL, DFW, MCO, DEN, AUS, ORD, and CUN are already served nonstop out of MSY on WN, F9, or NK. In addition, many of those traveling to MSY from most of these markets prefer to do so on airlines other than B6.



Now this is entertaining
 
tphuang
Posts: 5702
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:49 pm

Taking a look at some of the city threads, it looks like NK is adding quite a bit with it's latest schedule extension. For example, going to 2x daily on CLE-FLL and 3x daily on CLE-MCO as well as 2x daily on PIT-FLL and 2x daily on PIT-LAX.

It's a little maddening to me that B6 never got in on CLE-MCO or added a second flight on CLE-FLL and pulled out completely on PIT-FLL. At some point, B6 needs to start looking at these dehubbed legacy airports without strong WN presence as opportunities. Only ULCCs are really expanding in places like CLE/PIT/MEM/SDF. Sure, these are not wealthy growing catchment areas like AUS/BNA/SJC, but everyone is looking to add too much service to those places. At some point, building a large presence in a place with no legacy/WN presence is a profitable strategy for someone with B6's cost. Also at some point, they will get more gate space at LAX. They don't have the relevance or gate space there to compete on business schedule in those west coast markets. But with A220-300, they could conceivably run flights like LAX-PIT/CLE/BDL/RSW/MEM that would be too low yielding for AA/DL to try.

All pipe dream at this point. Just picking CLE as an example, I don't think it would cost them that much resources to see them running a schedule of 5x BOS, 2x FLL, 2x JFK, 1x MCO, 1x RSW, 2x DCA, 1x SJU, 1x LAX, 1x BDL, 3x weekly MBJ.

Anyhow, waiting to see where those MEX and cuba planes get redeployed. Hopefully EWR gets some love.
 
uconn99
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:10 am

tphuang wrote:
Taking a look at some of the city threads, it looks like NK is adding quite a bit with it's latest schedule extension. For example, going to 2x daily on CLE-FLL and 3x daily on CLE-MCO as well as 2x daily on PIT-FLL and 2x daily on PIT-LAX.

It's a little maddening to me that B6 never got in on CLE-MCO or added a second flight on CLE-FLL and pulled out completely on PIT-FLL. At some point, B6 needs to start looking at these dehubbed legacy airports without strong WN presence as opportunities. Only ULCCs are really expanding in places like CLE/PIT/MEM/SDF. Sure, these are not wealthy growing catchment areas like AUS/BNA/SJC, but everyone is looking to add too much service to those places. At some point, building a large presence in a place with no legacy/WN presence is a profitable strategy for someone with B6's cost. Also at some point, they will get more gate space at LAX. They don't have the relevance or gate space there to compete on business schedule in those west coast markets. But with A220-300, they could conceivably run flights like LAX-PIT/CLE/BDL/RSW/MEM that would be too low yielding for AA/DL to try.

All pipe dream at this point. Just picking CLE as an example, I don't think it would cost them that much resources to see them running a schedule of 5x BOS, 2x FLL, 2x JFK, 1x MCO, 1x RSW, 2x DCA, 1x SJU, 1x LAX, 1x BDL, 3x weekly MBJ.

Anyhow, waiting to see where those MEX and cuba planes get redeployed. Hopefully EWR gets some love.


AA flys LAX-BDL non stop and DL has in the past as well.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5702
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:50 pm

You are right, most of the cities I listed do see 1 flight a day from legacy. My point is more that A220-300 (with it's much lower cost for B6) is a better fit for these markets than 737/a320 that legacy airline would be using.

As an aside. Just taking a look at B6 departures at its top focus cities yesterday according to flightstats.
BOS - 180 (not far from 200 now)
JFK - 147 (seems like low, but this is Nov 1)
FLL - 108 (higher than expect).
MCO - 65 (pretty stagnant at this level for the past few years)
 
Bluewho
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:34 pm

tphuang wrote:
You are right, most of the cities I listed do see 1 flight a day from legacy. My point is more that A220-300 (with it's much lower cost for B6) is a better fit for these markets than 737/a320 that legacy airline would be using.

As an aside. Just taking a look at B6 departures at its top focus cities yesterday according to flightstats.
BOS - 180 (not far from 200 now)
JFK - 147 (seems like low, but this is Nov 1)
FLL - 108 (higher than expect).
MCO - 65 (pretty stagnant at this level for the past few years)



But respectfully that 220 is a ways off still yeah 1 or 2 but it’s a few years before we get enough to change things.

I think the biggest change will be the fare 2.0 changes coming up. I’m not sure what they will be but they have talked a basic economy type idea.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8633
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
You are right, most of the cities I listed do see 1 flight a day from legacy. My point is more that A220-300 (with it's much lower cost for B6) is a better fit for these markets than 737/a320 that legacy airline would be using.

As an aside. Just taking a look at B6 departures at its top focus cities yesterday according to flightstats.
BOS - 180 (not far from 200 now)
JFK - 147 (seems like low, but this is Nov 1)
FLL - 108 (higher than expect).
MCO - 65 (pretty stagnant at this level for the past few years)



LOL...how far has LGB fallen that it's not even in this list?

What is LGB's?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:08 pm

tphuang wrote:
You are right, most of the cities I listed do see 1 flight a day from legacy. My point is more that A220-300 (with it's much lower cost for B6) is a better fit for these markets than 737/a320 that legacy airline would be using.

As an aside. Just taking a look at B6 departures at its top focus cities yesterday according to flightstats.
BOS - 180 (not far from 200 now)
JFK - 147 (seems like low, but this is Nov 1)
FLL - 108 (higher than expect).
MCO - 65 (pretty stagnant at this level for the past few years)


I believe JFK peak goes to 175 when they use most, if not all of their slot portfolio ie summer and high seasonal travel. But even at 147 JFK is bigger than BOS (and system wide for that matter) in terms of passenger ASM's since JFK get a biggest bulk of the A321's and BOS is mostly E190's.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 675
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:50 pm

727LOVER wrote:
tphuang wrote:
You are right, most of the cities I listed do see 1 flight a day from legacy. My point is more that A220-300 (with it's much lower cost for B6) is a better fit for these markets than 737/a320 that legacy airline would be using.

As an aside. Just taking a look at B6 departures at its top focus cities yesterday according to flightstats.
BOS - 180 (not far from 200 now)
JFK - 147 (seems like low, but this is Nov 1)
FLL - 108 (higher than expect).
MCO - 65 (pretty stagnant at this level for the past few years)



LOL...how far has LGB fallen that it's not even in this list?

What is LGB's?


Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I believe it’s now somewhere between 18-22 daily. Why they even keep LGB open makes me scratch my head. I’d put a pretty good bet on it that it’s either reduced to strictly One or two daily to BOS and JFK or shuttered completely once the MFC opens up at LAX.
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