ROCDLFAN
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:24 pm

BOS-ROC inaugurated today. Flew the ROC-BOS portion and there were a lot of announcements and “thank you’s“ as well as a lot of excitement from the ground crew in ROC, as well as hope this leads to further growth. Just boarded the return to ROC and BOS had balloons as well as JetBlue trivia in the gate house. ROC-BOS portion booked to 89, BOS-ROC 76. Not too bad for the first run. This brings ROC back up to 4 flights per day between BOS and JFK.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
Budgie099
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Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:38 pm

I hope this is relevant to the Network thread. If JetBlue does fly LHR, what terminal would they fly out of?
 
nine4nine
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:42 pm

Wow whiners out in full effect. We get it. Management at B6 has issues starting from the top. AA has the same issues with Doug Parker. It happens.

But your attitudes and moral have a huge effect on your operations wether you see it or not. You can’t blame the issues solely on management but on yourselves as well. You are part of the problem. If you have a chip on your shoulder with your employer you may not see it, but guaranteed it is shown in your demeanor around your customers or in your work performance. Rather than bitch and moan, why don’t you take pride in your company, be a standout and better yourselves and have a positive attitude. If that’s passed through the rest of the employees you can help tip the scales to a more favorable outlook for B6 and offset what management lacks.

You all have a job, benefits, and health insurance. Take a look at those less fortunate and out looking for jobs and wondering how to pay the next rent payment or grocery tab. If you don’t change your attitudes you may well be joining them soon.

And before any of you blast me, I’ve been in the industry. I’ve been laid off both pre911 and post911 from airlines and lost everything I’ve owned in my life both times. My first lay-off, both my employees and myself saw the writing on the wall and our morale was in the toilet and we didn’t give a shit at that point and that sped things faster to demise. Be grateful for what you have, find ways to make the work situation better, because if you don’t, tomorrow may not have something to offer you.
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88/90 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 Q400 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
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Dieuwer
Posts: 639
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:21 pm

Just a bit over a month for the BOS-PSP inaugural flight. I'm on it! :D
 
trueblew
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:13 am

nine4nine wrote:
Wow whiners out in full effect. We get it. Management at B6 has issues starting from the top. AA has the same issues with Doug Parker. It happens.

But your attitudes and moral have a huge effect on your operations wether you see it or not. You can’t blame the issues solely on management but on yourselves as well. You are part of the problem. If you have a chip on your shoulder with your employer you may not see it, but guaranteed it is shown in your demeanor around your customers or in your work performance. Rather than bitch and moan, why don’t you take pride in your company, be a standout and better yourselves and have a positive attitude. If that’s passed through the rest of the employees you can help tip the scales to a more favorable outlook for B6 and offset what management lacks.

You all have a job, benefits, and health insurance. Take a look at those less fortunate and out looking for jobs and wondering how to pay the next rent payment or grocery tab. If you don’t change your attitudes you may well be joining them soon.

And before any of you blast me, I’ve been in the industry. I’ve been laid off both pre911 and post911 from airlines and lost everything I’ve owned in my life both times. My first lay-off, both my employees and myself saw the writing on the wall and our morale was in the toilet and we didn’t give a shit at that point and that sped things faster to demise. Be grateful for what you have, find ways to make the work situation better, because if you don’t, tomorrow may not have something to offer you.


Johanna, is that you? Yes, B6 employees should make up for management failures, profit sharing cuts, and a hostile work environment with more smiles and a great attitude!!! Just thrilled to have a job in the era of record low unemployment!
 
TheLunchbox
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:19 am

 
6YBLUE
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:45 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:09 am

fastmover wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Ok. Enough with the Bull on this site.

Put up time.

How many VX pilots were furloughed by AS? When were they furloughed?

I want numbers and dates.



I really believe you are concentrating on the wrong things here. I could throw out any numbers and dates, doesn't change the fact that mergers are not great for the majority of employees. The fact that you're only interested in what happened to pilots also says a lot. Understand this clearly, a buyout/merger is not beneficial for the traveling public or the (majority) employees of the much smaller B6. Despite what you've heard, its not being discussed and is nothing more than a stupid rumor by a small group of disgruntled pilots. STOP trying to spread the lies.



It’s not just JetBlue pilots. The rumor was so strong last year the ELT even had to put out a communication saying it wasn’t true. So you can think it’s disgruntled pilots but it isn’t. (You must work at LSC) :)

The better question to ask yourself is why do these rumors exist. You may want to say it’s just disgruntled pilots but that’s not it and is the easy way out. Morale is at an all time low, even flight ops leadership just admitted it. The company operations are poor at best. The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting. There is simply no vision or leadership at this company right now. Most rational people look at that and go well they are either a poor leadership team or we must be for sale because they seem to no longer care. Trust me it’s a feeling by every employee group not just pilots. There has been a major change in the culture of JetBlue and it’s not gods and it’s very disappointing for many of the employees.

As for new routes or anything who knows these days. The LR decision was due this fall, I have the email now it’s a some point next year. There was to be a new push out west now there isn’t. And on and on, they are fumbling around for a strategy while being hit on all sides from other airlines. (Hello Delta)

This company could do great things but not if the leadership team sticks around.



I do not work in LSC. The problem with a lot of the crew members is they don't realize how good they have it or don't appreciate it. Yes things can always be better. Every airline you go to has there share of problems and employees who want more. You are telling me that crew members are disheartened because the vision of the company is dying. I agree it has not been super flashy with new routes and planes and smashing success stories but that's no reason to give up on management and in effect the company. Chill out and stop being so spoiled. This is the real deal. Competition is tough and times are hard. If people really knew they would laugh to know you really have nothing to complain about.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2195
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:45 pm

December traffic number is out
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=58842
The most important part here is that RASM is up 2.4% YoY which is right in the middle of their guidance. Pretty encouraging sign considering
1) AA and DL most downgraded forecast to the very low end of their guidance
2) Very high completion rate which hurts RASM growth a little bit
3) More re-configured A320s + longer stage length which also hurt RASM

3) should really help CASM ex-fuel quite a bit. So no, B6 is not dying. In fact, they actually grew by 7.5% in RPM this year. Which is probably the highest in the industry outside of the ULCCs.

Yes, we all want to see them expand more in places, but they simply don't have cost structure of NK to expand faster. I would rather see them completing their network at BOS and FLL before building up MCO or another focus city. There will be an economy downturn at some point and there will be opportunity for them once they finish building up BOS/FLL. If you want to see airlines that really don't grow, take a look at AA or AS or even WN next year.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

I'm not sure MIA's service levels and AA's performance recently has been undercut by FLL very much (it has a little across the board but not much) in most markets EXCEPT LAX and SFO where Mint seems to have had a real impact. UA dropping MIA-SFO (again) might help AA though there. FLL-SFO is back down to only one daily as well on UA. I do think if WN sticks it out at FLL and eventually adds some more business-oriented destinations, that could be problematic for AA.

As for traffic from Aventura and Sunny Isles, it's been trending toward FLL for a number of years now. Pines now also as you mention though that's happened later. Despite country lines it's easier to get to MIA from Miramar and Pembroke Pines (in Broward) than from Sunny Isles and Aventura (In Miami-Dade). I know folks in Sunny Isles that NEVER fly out of MIA. It's just easier to get to FLL if your east for much of the metro area.

B6 has a while to go before it can really compete with AA. There simply isn't enough space at FLL for them to get as large as AA at MIA. But in the next 5 years, if they grow to 140 to 150 flights with flights to LHR/GRU/GIG/EZE on A321XLR. They can certainly inflict a lot of damage on AA (who is already not making any money at MIA). But they need to continue expanding mint at FLL.

WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.

av8orwalk wrote:
Noticed in our bid packet for February that MCO-LAX-MCO has shifted from a red eye turn to a day turn. Leaves just after noon, arrives in LAX around 4pm then arrives back in MCO just before midnight. I think this will do very well. Hopefully well enough to bring back the red eye for 2 daily flights. Without a doubt, this should be a Mint route. Every time I work this turn at least one customer mentions that we need a premium offering. Maybe this day time flight is testing the waters. A boy can dream!

That's interesting. Current schedule certainly makes it hard for them to get higher fares, but it also lowers their cost on a route that has very low yield. Especially now that fuel prices are low, red eye flying is a good thing. I don't see mint on this route. Yields are too low.
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:22 pm

6YBLUE wrote:
fastmover wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:


I really believe you are concentrating on the wrong things here. I could throw out any numbers and dates, doesn't change the fact that mergers are not great for the majority of employees. The fact that you're only interested in what happened to pilots also says a lot. Understand this clearly, a buyout/merger is not beneficial for the traveling public or the (majority) employees of the much smaller B6. Despite what you've heard, its not being discussed and is nothing more than a stupid rumor by a small group of disgruntled pilots. STOP trying to spread the lies.



It’s not just JetBlue pilots. The rumor was so strong last year the ELT even had to put out a communication saying it wasn’t true. So you can think it’s disgruntled pilots but it isn’t. (You must work at LSC) :)

The better question to ask yourself is why do these rumors exist. You may want to say it’s just disgruntled pilots but that’s not it and is the easy way out. Morale is at an all time low, even flight ops leadership just admitted it. The company operations are poor at best. The only thing we hear from the ELT is about cost cutting. There is simply no vision or leadership at this company right now. Most rational people look at that and go well they are either a poor leadership team or we must be for sale because they seem to no longer care. Trust me it’s a feeling by every employee group not just pilots. There has been a major change in the culture of JetBlue and it’s not gods and it’s very disappointing for many of the employees.

As for new routes or anything who knows these days. The LR decision was due this fall, I have the email now it’s a some point next year. There was to be a new push out west now there isn’t. And on and on, they are fumbling around for a strategy while being hit on all sides from other airlines. (Hello Delta)

This company could do great things but not if the leadership team sticks around.



I do not work in LSC. The problem with a lot of the crew members is they don't realize how good they have it or don't appreciate it. Yes things can always be better. Every airline you go to has there share of problems and employees who want more. You are telling me that crew members are disheartened because the vision of the company is dying. I agree it has not been super flashy with new routes and planes and smashing success stories but that's no reason to give up on management and in effect the company. Chill out and stop being so spoiled. This is the real deal. Competition is tough and times are hard. If people really knew they would laugh to know you really have nothing to complain about.


Spoiled, such a typical response and so dismissive.
From 0 unions to two with more coming nope not a problem at all. A company without a vision who cares (said the people who work at sears) JD power awards what were those? On time well we aren’t last so we are doing better. Nope don’t you dare complain. Smh
 
jplatts
Posts: 2122
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:28 pm

tphuang wrote:
WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.


WN actually has more market share on domestic air travel in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market than any of its LCC or ULCC competitors. WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to a few markets with no B6 presence such as BZE, CMH, IND, MCI, MKE, STL, and SAT. Is WN actually doing well on FLL-BZE, FLL-CMH, FLL-IND, FLL-MCI, FLL-MKE, FLL-STL, and FLL-SAT nonstop service?

While WN has nonstop service out of FLL to a few destinations in the U.S. and Belize that aren't served by B6, many of WN's nonstop routes out of FLL are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL. Is WN really struggling on nonstop routes out of FLL that are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL?

WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to some destinations such as BWI, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCO, PIT, and TPA that are located in markets that are served by B6 and that don't currently have nonstop service to FLL on B6. How well is WN doing on FLL-BWI, FLL-DAL, FLL-DEN, FLL-HOU, FLL-MCO, FLL-PIT, and FLL-TPA nonstop service?

There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added out of FLL by WN such as FLL-CVG, FLL-SDF, FLL-MEM, and FLL-OMA, but CVG, SDF, MEM, and OMA are located in markets that have no B6 or NK presence.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2195
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:22 pm

A couple of more things I missed on my last post.

SY is swapping JFK-MSP with EWR. I don't know what's going to happen to their slots, but this is a good time for B6 to enter the market.

LHR is looking to add as many as 68 more slots a day even without the 3rd runway.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-46794108
This might be helpful if they want to get a competitive schedule to LHR.

I wonder if we can get more slots at LGA once the new technology is in place over the next few years.

jetbluefan1 wrote:
Not sure if JetBlue was planning on releasing this anyway, or if this is related to DL's big BOS announcement a couple weeks ago, but B6 has a pretty lengthy release "reflecting" on its 15 years at BOS which otherwise is non-newsworthy (I was at least hoping for a new flight or 2 to be announced):

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... ton-Future

that was kind of downer post. Actually the entire lack of noise since DL's recent adds is quite disappointing.

Sad to see DAB closing, but even sadder for IAD in my opinion given their long history there. Over the years B6 had a pretty decent operation at IAD and it was apparent they were trying to make a focus city work there. Before opening DCA they flew IAD to MCO, FLL, and PBI, and they even had a decent transcon presence with flights to LGB, OAK, and even SMF. My mind might be fooling me but they may have even tried LAS/SAN at some point (don't quote me on that though). I believe a lot of this was tried before Independence Air.

It really is a shame since Northern Virginia/DC suburbs are growing rapidly, and DCA is full, so there really is nowhere else to expand in the DC area (unless B6 wants to take on WN at BWI, which they appear to be failing at given the discontinuation of BWI-FLL/MCO). I would have much rather seen B6 try to make IAD work than continue to waste money and resources at LGB, which has always been doomed to fail. At least with IAD, there would have been no limits to their expansion, with the potential for another Mint base for flights to LAX/SFO and even SAN/LAS/SEA. But I digress....

totally agreed. I do think they will return to IAD some point down the line once they can get the finances turned around. And those DCA flights should start getting upgauged at some point.
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:35 pm

Ok so what's the deal with B6 at LGB? I thought last year they were going to give up slots and they were to be raffled off by the airport. Has that not happened? Any updates on what the heck is going on with their mess at LGB?
 
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:27 pm

jplatts wrote:
tphuang wrote:
WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.


WN actually has more market share on domestic air travel in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market than any of its LCC or ULCC competitors. WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to a few markets with no B6 presence such as BZE, CMH, IND, MCI, MKE, STL, and SAT. Is WN actually doing well on FLL-BZE, FLL-CMH, FLL-IND, FLL-MCI, FLL-MKE, FLL-STL, and FLL-SAT nonstop service?

While WN has nonstop service out of FLL to a few destinations in the U.S. and Belize that aren't served by B6, many of WN's nonstop routes out of FLL are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL. Is WN really struggling on nonstop routes out of FLL that are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL?

WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to some destinations such as BWI, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCO, PIT, and TPA that are located in markets that are served by B6 and that don't currently have nonstop service to FLL on B6. How well is WN doing on FLL-BWI, FLL-DAL, FLL-DEN, FLL-HOU, FLL-MCO, FLL-PIT, and FLL-TPA nonstop service?

There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added out of FLL by WN such as FLL-CVG, FLL-SDF, FLL-MEM, and FLL-OMA, but CVG, SDF, MEM, and OMA are located in markets that have no B6 or NK presence.


B6 used to fly PIT-FLL but just recently cancelled the route giving it back to WN for itself. Whatever the case B6 just couldn't make it work. Now B6 only serves BOS from PIT.
 
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Runway28L
Posts: 1246
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:35 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
jplatts wrote:
tphuang wrote:
WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.


WN actually has more market share on domestic air travel in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market than any of its LCC or ULCC competitors. WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to a few markets with no B6 presence such as BZE, CMH, IND, MCI, MKE, STL, and SAT. Is WN actually doing well on FLL-BZE, FLL-CMH, FLL-IND, FLL-MCI, FLL-MKE, FLL-STL, and FLL-SAT nonstop service?

While WN has nonstop service out of FLL to a few destinations in the U.S. and Belize that aren't served by B6, many of WN's nonstop routes out of FLL are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL. Is WN really struggling on nonstop routes out of FLL that are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL?

WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to some destinations such as BWI, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCO, PIT, and TPA that are located in markets that are served by B6 and that don't currently have nonstop service to FLL on B6. How well is WN doing on FLL-BWI, FLL-DAL, FLL-DEN, FLL-HOU, FLL-MCO, FLL-PIT, and FLL-TPA nonstop service?

There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added out of FLL by WN such as FLL-CVG, FLL-SDF, FLL-MEM, and FLL-OMA, but CVG, SDF, MEM, and OMA are located in markets that have no B6 or NK presence.


B6 used to fly PIT-FLL but just recently cancelled the route giving it back to WN for itself. Whatever the case B6 just couldn't make it work. Now B6 only serves BOS from PIT.

NK is also on PIT-FLL at 1x daily.

I feel like B6 lost out because of NK entering the route. That had to have dragged down yields and three carriers on that route seemed like a bit much. NK went from 5x weekly to daily and even re-timed their flight to match B6. It also doesn't help that WN dominates the PIT point-of-sale due to their presence here being nearly 5x the size of B6 and NK.

There really isn't a whole lot for B6 to do at PIT other than battle DL to BOS. They tried and failed on JFK. Now there is no room for anything to Florida now that G4 and NK have established themselves here, plus you have WN of course.
Greetings from KPIT! Check out my photos here: https://www.airliners.net/search?user=45 ... teAccepted
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:39 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
Ok so what's the deal with B6 at LGB? I thought last year they were going to give up slots and they were to be raffled off by the airport. Has that not happened? Any updates on what the heck is going on with their mess at LGB?


It sounds like B6 cut about 9 daily flights at LGB, decreasing operations from ~32 flights per day to 23.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/04/ ... ornia.aspx

It seems like WN got all 9 slots, as I believe no other carriers were interested in adding service at LGB. WN starts 4x daily LGB-SJC in April, and I believe the 2x daily LGB-SMF frequencies as well as 3x daily LGB-LAS that had been using temporary slots will now utilize the remainder of WN's new permanent LGB slots. All of this new service to Northern California will only make things worse for B6's remaining short haul operations at LGB. I should think WN is patiently waiting for even more LGB slots to come available if/when B6 makes further cuts.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:38 pm

Runway28L wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
jplatts wrote:

WN actually has more market share on domestic air travel in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market than any of its LCC or ULCC competitors. WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to a few markets with no B6 presence such as BZE, CMH, IND, MCI, MKE, STL, and SAT. Is WN actually doing well on FLL-BZE, FLL-CMH, FLL-IND, FLL-MCI, FLL-MKE, FLL-STL, and FLL-SAT nonstop service?

While WN has nonstop service out of FLL to a few destinations in the U.S. and Belize that aren't served by B6, many of WN's nonstop routes out of FLL are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL. Is WN really struggling on nonstop routes out of FLL that are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of FLL?

WN also has nonstop service out of FLL to some destinations such as BWI, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCO, PIT, and TPA that are located in markets that are served by B6 and that don't currently have nonstop service to FLL on B6. How well is WN doing on FLL-BWI, FLL-DAL, FLL-DEN, FLL-HOU, FLL-MCO, FLL-PIT, and FLL-TPA nonstop service?

There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added out of FLL by WN such as FLL-CVG, FLL-SDF, FLL-MEM, and FLL-OMA, but CVG, SDF, MEM, and OMA are located in markets that have no B6 or NK presence.


B6 used to fly PIT-FLL but just recently cancelled the route giving it back to WN for itself. Whatever the case B6 just couldn't make it work. Now B6 only serves BOS from PIT.

NK is also on PIT-FLL at 1x daily.

I feel like B6 lost out because of NK entering the route. That had to have dragged down yields and three carriers on that route seemed like a bit much. NK went from 5x weekly to daily and even re-timed their flight to match B6. It also doesn't help that WN dominates the PIT point-of-sale due to their presence here being nearly 5x the size of B6 and NK.

There really isn't a whole lot for B6 to do at PIT other than battle DL to BOS. They tried and failed on JFK. Now there is no room for anything to Florida now that G4 and NK have established themselves here, plus you have WN of course.



This “no room thing” always makes me laugh.
I guess no airlines can add flights if someone else flys it? If the demand is there they will fly it. Maybe in the future it will come back but I don’t but this there is no room stuff.

As for the Boston announcement my feeling is you won’t see anything more till JetBlue is ready to go and that also goes with solid Europe plans. It seems we wait until everything is ready before they say anything. Once the new gates are there I’m sure you will see a more “splashy” announcement.

The major problem if it is a problem is that they just don’t have the planes to waste on routes unless they are getting something (hello orh)
The COO has said that every plane coming already has a place it will be going be it a new city or more frequencies. They did say no to be surprised if we go back into some markets we left.

I know it’s crazy but I’d love to see a mint operation in IAD trans con and trans Atlantic. I still think they could make a dent there but right now it’s Bos and FLL followed by MCO.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1438
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:39 am

tphuang wrote:
December traffic number is out
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=58842
The most important part here is that RASM is up 2.4% YoY which is right in the middle of their guidance. Pretty encouraging sign considering
1) AA and DL most downgraded forecast to the very low end of their guidance
2) Very high completion rate which hurts RASM growth a little bit
3) More re-configured A320s + longer stage length which also hurt RASM

3) should really help CASM ex-fuel quite a bit. So no, B6 is not dying. In fact, they actually grew by 7.5% in RPM this year. Which is probably the highest in the industry outside of the ULCCs.

Yes, we all want to see them expand more in places, but they simply don't have cost structure of NK to expand faster. I would rather see them completing their network at BOS and FLL before building up MCO or another focus city. There will be an economy downturn at some point and there will be opportunity for them once they finish building up BOS/FLL. If you want to see airlines that really don't grow, take a look at AA or AS or even WN next year.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

I'm not sure MIA's service levels and AA's performance recently has been undercut by FLL very much (it has a little across the board but not much) in most markets EXCEPT LAX and SFO where Mint seems to have had a real impact. UA dropping MIA-SFO (again) might help AA though there. FLL-SFO is back down to only one daily as well on UA. I do think if WN sticks it out at FLL and eventually adds some more business-oriented destinations, that could be problematic for AA.

As for traffic from Aventura and Sunny Isles, it's been trending toward FLL for a number of years now. Pines now also as you mention though that's happened later. Despite country lines it's easier to get to MIA from Miramar and Pembroke Pines (in Broward) than from Sunny Isles and Aventura (In Miami-Dade). I know folks in Sunny Isles that NEVER fly out of MIA. It's just easier to get to FLL if your east for much of the metro area.

B6 has a while to go before it can really compete with AA. There simply isn't enough space at FLL for them to get as large as AA at MIA. But in the next 5 years, if they grow to 140 to 150 flights with flights to LHR/GRU/GIG/EZE on A321XLR. They can certainly inflict a lot of damage on AA (who is already not making any money at MIA). But they need to continue expanding mint at FLL.

WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.

av8orwalk wrote:
Noticed in our bid packet for February that MCO-LAX-MCO has shifted from a red eye turn to a day turn. Leaves just after noon, arrives in LAX around 4pm then arrives back in MCO just before midnight. I think this will do very well. Hopefully well enough to bring back the red eye for 2 daily flights. Without a doubt, this should be a Mint route. Every time I work this turn at least one customer mentions that we need a premium offering. Maybe this day time flight is testing the waters. A boy can dream!

That's interesting. Current schedule certainly makes it hard for them to get higher fares, but it also lowers their cost on a route that has very low yield. Especially now that fuel prices are low, red eye flying is a good thing. I don't see mint on this route. Yields are too low.


WN is only TEMPORARY reduced FLL flying during the Runway construction. This is to minimize the impact to the WN system from daily Flow control program during the construction period. Yes some non stop markets will be temporarily stopped. But WN added an increase in 800/8MAX flying At FLL to keep passengers volume at pre construction levels.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
heretothere
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:50 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:06 am

wnflyguy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
December traffic number is out
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=58842
The most important part here is that RASM is up 2.4% YoY which is right in the middle of their guidance. Pretty encouraging sign considering
1) AA and DL most downgraded forecast to the very low end of their guidance
2) Very high completion rate which hurts RASM growth a little bit
3) More re-configured A320s + longer stage length which also hurt RASM

3) should really help CASM ex-fuel quite a bit. So no, B6 is not dying. In fact, they actually grew by 7.5% in RPM this year. Which is probably the highest in the industry outside of the ULCCs.

Yes, we all want to see them expand more in places, but they simply don't have cost structure of NK to expand faster. I would rather see them completing their network at BOS and FLL before building up MCO or another focus city. There will be an economy downturn at some point and there will be opportunity for them once they finish building up BOS/FLL. If you want to see airlines that really don't grow, take a look at AA or AS or even WN next year.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

I'm not sure MIA's service levels and AA's performance recently has been undercut by FLL very much (it has a little across the board but not much) in most markets EXCEPT LAX and SFO where Mint seems to have had a real impact. UA dropping MIA-SFO (again) might help AA though there. FLL-SFO is back down to only one daily as well on UA. I do think if WN sticks it out at FLL and eventually adds some more business-oriented destinations, that could be problematic for AA.

As for traffic from Aventura and Sunny Isles, it's been trending toward FLL for a number of years now. Pines now also as you mention though that's happened later. Despite country lines it's easier to get to MIA from Miramar and Pembroke Pines (in Broward) than from Sunny Isles and Aventura (In Miami-Dade). I know folks in Sunny Isles that NEVER fly out of MIA. It's just easier to get to FLL if your east for much of the metro area.

B6 has a while to go before it can really compete with AA. There simply isn't enough space at FLL for them to get as large as AA at MIA. But in the next 5 years, if they grow to 140 to 150 flights with flights to LHR/GRU/GIG/EZE on A321XLR. They can certainly inflict a lot of damage on AA (who is already not making any money at MIA). But they need to continue expanding mint at FLL.

WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.

av8orwalk wrote:
Noticed in our bid packet for February that MCO-LAX-MCO has shifted from a red eye turn to a day turn. Leaves just after noon, arrives in LAX around 4pm then arrives back in MCO just before midnight. I think this will do very well. Hopefully well enough to bring back the red eye for 2 daily flights. Without a doubt, this should be a Mint route. Every time I work this turn at least one customer mentions that we need a premium offering. Maybe this day time flight is testing the waters. A boy can dream!

That's interesting. Current schedule certainly makes it hard for them to get higher fares, but it also lowers their cost on a route that has very low yield. Especially now that fuel prices are low, red eye flying is a good thing. I don't see mint on this route. Yields are too low.


WN is only TEMPORARY reduced FLL flying during the Runway construction. This is to minimize the impact to the WN system from daily Flow control program during the construction period. Yes some non stop markets will be temporarily stopped. But WN added an increase in 800/8MAX flying At FLL to keep passengers volume at pre construction levels.

Flyguy


No they did not add more 738/7M8 YoY. In fact they have less (26 last year vs 24 this year). It’s impressive how factless your posts are consistently.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2195
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:19 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
WN is only TEMPORARY reduced FLL flying during the Runway construction. This is to minimize the impact to the WN system from daily Flow control program during the construction period. Yes some non stop markets will be temporarily stopped. But WN added an increase in 800/8MAX flying At FLL to keep passengers volume at pre construction levels.

Flyguy


They've cut a lot from NorthEast to FLL for the plain fact that B6 is wiping them out in many of these markets. They are down to mid 70s in flights this summer. And as the other posters said, they are not adding more B738s. In fact, they've added more frequencies on BWI/BNA-FLL. Which means they are going to push traffic from east coast to FLL through their primary focus cities. It's pretty obvious that BNA is their focus on east coast now.

fastmover wrote:

This “no room thing” always makes me laugh.
I guess no airlines can add flights if someone else flys it? If the demand is there they will fly it. Maybe in the future it will come back but I don’t but this there is no room stuff.

As for the Boston announcement my feeling is you won’t see anything more till JetBlue is ready to go and that also goes with solid Europe plans. It seems we wait until everything is ready before they say anything. Once the new gates are there I’m sure you will see a more “splashy” announcement.

The major problem if it is a problem is that they just don’t have the planes to waste on routes unless they are getting something (hello orh)
The COO has said that every plane coming already has a place it will be going be it a new city or more frequencies. They did say no to be surprised if we go back into some markets we left.

I know it’s crazy but I’d love to see a mint operation in IAD trans con and trans Atlantic. I still think they could make a dent there but right now it’s Bos and FLL followed by MCO.


Agree wholly with everything you said. I still think there is a future down the road from IAD, but not in the next 5 years. I see PIT-FLL coming back. FLL is growing and PIT station isn't going away. It's just a matter of time before some of these cut ones come back. I wonder when they are getting the new gates at BOS. They are pretty gate constrained from March to May.

From OAG thread this week

B6 BOS-RSW JUL 3>2[3] AUG 3>2[3]
B6 BOS-SDQ MAY 1.4>1.9[1.0]
B6 BOS-SLC MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 BQN-JFK MAY 0.7>0.9[0.5]
B6 BUF-LAX MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 CTG-FLL MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 CUN-JFK MAY 3>1.7[2]
B6 DCA-RSW MAY 1.0>1.6[1.0]
B6 JFK-PDX MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 LGB-SEA MAR 1.0>1.6[1.6] APR 1.0>1.9[2] MAY 1.0>2[2.0] JUN 1.0>2[2] JUL 1.0>2[2] AUG 1.0>2[2]
So shifting LGB flight from BOS to SEA. Makes a lot of sense. I don't know why they cut LGB-SEA down to 1 when it was one of the few routes they performed well. And BOS-LGB twice a day was too much . I don't see the additional flight to BNA yet on google flights. Although it makes sense for them to add there. I guess rest is just a lot of off-peak trimming on daily flight. JFK-PDX/BUF-LAX/BOS-SLC are three of their worst performing transcon-ish flights.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2195
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:01 pm

saw this in Caribbean thread. Maybe the JFK-GEO flight will come this year.
https://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/2019 ... -ferguson/
 
fastmover
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:17 pm

tphuang wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN is only TEMPORARY reduced FLL flying during the Runway construction. This is to minimize the impact to the WN system from daily Flow control program during the construction period. Yes some non stop markets will be temporarily stopped. But WN added an increase in 800/8MAX flying At FLL to keep passengers volume at pre construction levels.

Flyguy


They've cut a lot from NorthEast to FLL for the plain fact that B6 is wiping them out in many of these markets. They are down to mid 70s in flights this summer. And as the other posters said, they are not adding more B738s. In fact, they've added more frequencies on BWI/BNA-FLL. Which means they are going to push traffic from east coast to FLL through their primary focus cities. It's pretty obvious that BNA is their focus on east coast now.

fastmover wrote:

This “no room thing” always makes me laugh.
I guess no airlines can add flights if someone else flys it? If the demand is there they will fly it. Maybe in the future it will come back but I don’t but this there is no room stuff.

As for the Boston announcement my feeling is you won’t see anything more till JetBlue is ready to go and that also goes with solid Europe plans. It seems we wait until everything is ready before they say anything. Once the new gates are there I’m sure you will see a more “splashy” announcement.

The major problem if it is a problem is that they just don’t have the planes to waste on routes unless they are getting something (hello orh)
The COO has said that every plane coming already has a place it will be going be it a new city or more frequencies. They did say no to be surprised if we go back into some markets we left.

I know it’s crazy but I’d love to see a mint operation in IAD trans con and trans Atlantic. I still think they could make a dent there but right now it’s Bos and FLL followed by MCO.


Agree wholly with everything you said. I still think there is a future down the road from IAD, but not in the next 5 years. I see PIT-FLL coming back. FLL is growing and PIT station isn't going away. It's just a matter of time before some of these cut ones come back. I wonder when they are getting the new gates at BOS. They are pretty gate constrained from March to May.

From OAG thread this week

B6 BOS-RSW JUL 3>2[3] AUG 3>2[3]
B6 BOS-SDQ MAY 1.4>1.9[1.0]
B6 BOS-SLC MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 BQN-JFK MAY 0.7>0.9[0.5]
B6 BUF-LAX MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 CTG-FLL MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 CUN-JFK MAY 3>1.7[2]
B6 DCA-RSW MAY 1.0>1.6[1.0]
B6 JFK-PDX MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 LGB-SEA MAR 1.0>1.6[1.6] APR 1.0>1.9[2] MAY 1.0>2[2.0] JUN 1.0>2[2] JUL 1.0>2[2] AUG 1.0>2[2]
So shifting LGB flight from BOS to SEA. Makes a lot of sense. I don't know why they cut LGB-SEA down to 1 when it was one of the few routes they performed well. And BOS-LGB twice a day was too much . I don't see the additional flight to BNA yet on google flights. Although it makes sense for them to add there. I guess rest is just a lot of off-peak trimming on daily flight. JFK-PDX/BUF-LAX/BOS-SLC are three of their worst performing transcon-ish flights.



Most of that stuff is way over my head. I don’t have the numbers like our planners do. What does get me is the no room argument. If that’s the case why is it airliners.net gospel that Delta will push JetBlue out of Boston? Many new Delta routes have AA and JetBlue on them so there isn’t “room” but it’s Delta so they will make room....lol.

Look it’s easy the plane could make more money in another place. JetBlue doesn’t like to have a route just to have one unless it’s for a political reason. We just don’t have extra planes to waste.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3192
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:14 pm

tphuang wrote:
December traffic number is out
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=58842
The most important part here is that RASM is up 2.4% YoY which is right in the middle of their guidance. Pretty encouraging sign considering
1) AA and DL most downgraded forecast to the very low end of their guidance
2) Very high completion rate which hurts RASM growth a little bit
3) More re-configured A320s + longer stage length which also hurt RASM

3) should really help CASM ex-fuel quite a bit. So no, B6 is not dying. In fact, they actually grew by 7.5% in RPM this year. Which is probably the highest in the industry outside of the ULCCs.


All good points. Specifically they said the higher completion rate shaved .3% off RASM, so the adjusted 2.7% rate is higher than the mid point of their guidance, which is an encouraging sign. Quite a contrast to DL/AA, both of whom I believe specifically pointed to softening domestic booking trends, so it's a bit surprising B6 didn't feel the same effects.

As you noted the higher density A320's + longer strange make these numbers all the more impressive - and, also, the addition of more 200-seat A321's. All of these should, in theory, reduce CASM and thus become margin accretive to B6's bottom line.

To be sure this brings some relief after reading the somewhat dire predictions being thrown around some of the other threads.

tphuang wrote:
Yes, we all want to see them expand more in places, but they simply don't have cost structure of NK to expand faster. I would rather see them completing their network at BOS and FLL before building up MCO or another focus city. There will be an economy downturn at some point and there will be opportunity for them once they finish building up BOS/FLL. If you want to see airlines that really don't grow, take a look at AA or AS or even WN next year.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

I'm not sure MIA's service levels and AA's performance recently has been undercut by FLL very much (it has a little across the board but not much) in most markets EXCEPT LAX and SFO where Mint seems to have had a real impact. UA dropping MIA-SFO (again) might help AA though there. FLL-SFO is back down to only one daily as well on UA. I do think if WN sticks it out at FLL and eventually adds some more business-oriented destinations, that could be problematic for AA.

As for traffic from Aventura and Sunny Isles, it's been trending toward FLL for a number of years now. Pines now also as you mention though that's happened later. Despite country lines it's easier to get to MIA from Miramar and Pembroke Pines (in Broward) than from Sunny Isles and Aventura (In Miami-Dade). I know folks in Sunny Isles that NEVER fly out of MIA. It's just easier to get to FLL if your east for much of the metro area.

B6 has a while to go before it can really compete with AA. There simply isn't enough space at FLL for them to get as large as AA at MIA. But in the next 5 years, if they grow to 140 to 150 flights with flights to LHR/GRU/GIG/EZE on A321XLR. They can certainly inflict a lot of damage on AA (who is already not making any money at MIA). But they need to continue expanding mint at FLL.

WN is in major trouble at FLL. They are now adding more Carribbean flying out of other stations and have cut back on all the NorthEast market, which I think they realized they can't compete in. Next summer they are scheduled for 30 fewer flights a day compared to B6. The biggest competition at FLL for B6 is NK and NK is still growing there pretty fast.

av8orwalk wrote:
Noticed in our bid packet for February that MCO-LAX-MCO has shifted from a red eye turn to a day turn. Leaves just after noon, arrives in LAX around 4pm then arrives back in MCO just before midnight. I think this will do very well. Hopefully well enough to bring back the red eye for 2 daily flights. Without a doubt, this should be a Mint route. Every time I work this turn at least one customer mentions that we need a premium offering. Maybe this day time flight is testing the waters. A boy can dream!

That's interesting. Current schedule certainly makes it hard for them to get higher fares, but it also lowers their cost on a route that has very low yield. Especially now that fuel prices are low, red eye flying is a good thing. I don't see mint on this route. Yields are too low.


I agree that NK is a bigger threat than WN @ FLL, especially when you consider that WN's growth has largely flatlined when looking at future schedules. WN just can't compete to very large and lucrative markets like NYC, BOS, DCA, LA, or SF, and has struggled to build as large of a Caribbean/LatAm network as B6. I think that once you see an economic downturn, someone here is going to blink, and I just don't see it being B6 or NK...

Interesting that MCO-LAX is becoming a daytime flight. Although, I agree that it is way too low yielding to get Mint. If anything, FLL-LAX/SFO need a few more Mint rotations. I even think B6 could try Mint on a market like FLL-LIM, and eventually get into GIG/GRU/SCL/EZE if and when the XLR becomes available.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3192
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:30 pm

fastmover wrote:
tphuang wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN is only TEMPORARY reduced FLL flying during the Runway construction. This is to minimize the impact to the WN system from daily Flow control program during the construction period. Yes some non stop markets will be temporarily stopped. But WN added an increase in 800/8MAX flying At FLL to keep passengers volume at pre construction levels.

Flyguy


They've cut a lot from NorthEast to FLL for the plain fact that B6 is wiping them out in many of these markets. They are down to mid 70s in flights this summer. And as the other posters said, they are not adding more B738s. In fact, they've added more frequencies on BWI/BNA-FLL. Which means they are going to push traffic from east coast to FLL through their primary focus cities. It's pretty obvious that BNA is their focus on east coast now.

fastmover wrote:

This “no room thing” always makes me laugh.
I guess no airlines can add flights if someone else flys it? If the demand is there they will fly it. Maybe in the future it will come back but I don’t but this there is no room stuff.

As for the Boston announcement my feeling is you won’t see anything more till JetBlue is ready to go and that also goes with solid Europe plans. It seems we wait until everything is ready before they say anything. Once the new gates are there I’m sure you will see a more “splashy” announcement.

The major problem if it is a problem is that they just don’t have the planes to waste on routes unless they are getting something (hello orh)
The COO has said that every plane coming already has a place it will be going be it a new city or more frequencies. They did say no to be surprised if we go back into some markets we left.

I know it’s crazy but I’d love to see a mint operation in IAD trans con and trans Atlantic. I still think they could make a dent there but right now it’s Bos and FLL followed by MCO.


Agree wholly with everything you said. I still think there is a future down the road from IAD, but not in the next 5 years. I see PIT-FLL coming back. FLL is growing and PIT station isn't going away. It's just a matter of time before some of these cut ones come back. I wonder when they are getting the new gates at BOS. They are pretty gate constrained from March to May.

From OAG thread this week

B6 BOS-RSW JUL 3>2[3] AUG 3>2[3]
B6 BOS-SDQ MAY 1.4>1.9[1.0]
B6 BOS-SLC MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 BQN-JFK MAY 0.7>0.9[0.5]
B6 BUF-LAX MAY 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 CTG-FLL MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 CUN-JFK MAY 3>1.7[2]
B6 DCA-RSW MAY 1.0>1.6[1.0]
B6 JFK-PDX MAY 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 LGB-SEA MAR 1.0>1.6[1.6] APR 1.0>1.9[2] MAY 1.0>2[2.0] JUN 1.0>2[2] JUL 1.0>2[2] AUG 1.0>2[2]
So shifting LGB flight from BOS to SEA. Makes a lot of sense. I don't know why they cut LGB-SEA down to 1 when it was one of the few routes they performed well. And BOS-LGB twice a day was too much . I don't see the additional flight to BNA yet on google flights. Although it makes sense for them to add there. I guess rest is just a lot of off-peak trimming on daily flight. JFK-PDX/BUF-LAX/BOS-SLC are three of their worst performing transcon-ish flights.



Most of that stuff is way over my head. I don’t have the numbers like our planners do. What does get me is the no room argument. If that’s the case why is it airliners.net gospel that Delta will push JetBlue out of Boston? Many new Delta routes have AA and JetBlue on them so there isn’t “room” but it’s Delta so they will make room....lol.

Look it’s easy the plane could make more money in another place. JetBlue doesn’t like to have a route just to have one unless it’s for a political reason. We just don’t have extra planes to waste.


I agree that the "room" argument is not so simplistic. B6 has coexisted with DL at JFK for a very long time and there are no signs of that changing, and it's hard to see why the same wouldn't happen at BOS. Moreover B6 remains the largest carrier at BOS by a large margin, and has access to more gates, so it's not like DL can leapfrog B6 without there being some very big changes to the BOS gate situation. The lack of FIS at Terminal A will also continue to make the market a difficult international transit point for DL customers.

I also think that, to a certain extent, people are already pre-judging what will happen at BOS before we have even arrived to the most "extreme" part of the competition. Only recently has DL entered or announced its plans to enter UA/AA mega-hubs from BOS, which is where DL stands to experience the most pain and where B6 has already established itself. Somehow, I don't think those 76-seaters to PHL, EWR, ORD, and DCA are going to make money all that easily. DL also remains uncompetitive to SFO, is tied for #3 to LAX, and still has a lot of large dots to connect which will also face a lot of competition (IAH, DFW, DEN, PHX to name a few). So it remains to be seen how long DL is willing to sustain large capacity dumps to other airlines' hubs in order to build up its BOS presence. I would suspect a lot of this depends on how well the domestic economy continues to perform, which will directly impact DL's money-printing operations at ATL, MSP, and DTW which allow DL to experiment with build-ups in places like SEA, RDU, and yes - BOS.
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4119
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
Only recently has DL entered or announced its plans to enter UA/AA mega-hubs from BOS, which is where DL stands to experience the most pain and where B6 has already established itself.


Many recall that DL has (at least twice) added and then yanked flights to SFO/LAX (back to the Song days). They might be a laggard in those markets because people expect them to wave the white flag again at some point.
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:12 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
Ok so what's the deal with B6 at LGB? I thought last year they were going to give up slots and they were to be raffled off by the airport. Has that not happened? Any updates on what the heck is going on with their mess at LGB?


It sounds like B6 cut about 9 daily flights at LGB, decreasing operations from ~32 flights per day to 23.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/04/ ... ornia.aspx

It seems like WN got all 9 slots, as I believe no other carriers were interested in adding service at LGB. WN starts 4x daily LGB-SJC in April, and I believe the 2x daily LGB-SMF frequencies as well as 3x daily LGB-LAS that had been using temporary slots will now utilize the remainder of WN's new permanent LGB slots. All of this new service to Northern California will only make things worse for B6's remaining short haul operations at LGB. I should think WN is patiently waiting for even more LGB slots to come available if/when B6 makes further cuts.


Interesting, but unfortunately not surprised to see this happening. Thanks for the update.
 
windian425
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:16 pm

For the JFK-GEO option, B6 will need either A320NEO or A321NEO. They should receive a few of them in 2019 so its possible for the 4th Qrt 2019.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:32 pm

windian425 wrote:
For the JFK-GEO option, B6 will need either A320NEO or A321NEO. They should receive a few of them in 2019 so its possible for the 4th Qrt 2019.


13 321neo's coming this year.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
windian425
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 pm

No A320NEO's this year?
 
unusualattitude
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:49 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:35 pm

windian425 wrote:
No A320NEO's this year?

No A320 NEOs period. All airbus deliveries from this point forward are A321 NEOs.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 639
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:43 pm

unusualattitude wrote:
windian425 wrote:
No A320NEO's this year?

No A320 NEOs period. All airbus deliveries from this point forward are A321 NEOs.


Even the regular A321NEO should EASILY reach Western Europe. So...no more excuses NOT to fly to Europe, B6!
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:09 pm

windian425 wrote:
For the JFK-GEO option, B6 will need either A320NEO or A321NEO. They should receive a few of them in 2019 so its possible for the 4th Qrt 2019.



JFK-GEO is shorter than BOS-SFO and they have a 10K foot runway. Is there something I'm missing that requires an NEO?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
2018: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
2019: AA BOS-LAX-HKG, TG HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
windian425
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:40 pm

Runway at GEO is only 7,448ft-long. A320CEO would struggle with a full payload to make JFK.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 639
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:12 am

Dieuwer wrote:
unusualattitude wrote:
windian425 wrote:
No A320NEO's this year?

No A320 NEOs period. All airbus deliveries from this point forward are A321 NEOs.


Even the regular A321NEO should EASILY reach Western Europe. So...no more excuses NOT to fly to Europe, B6!


In fact, B6 already flies 600+ miles over water. To Bermuda.
So they could easily do Europe via the Danish Crown Route, with emergency points at GOH, KEF and EDI.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2195
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:41 pm

As an update, I see the increased schedule to BNA out of BOS/FLL. it's quite curious, they increased to 3 a day out of BOS and 2 a day out of FLL from start of May to Mid June and then they are back to 2 and 1. I wonder if it's because they need those planes for JFK in peak summer period. They always seem to run out of planes in the peak summer period. With the 13 A321s they are receiving this year, I would've thought they'd have more places they can add. Maybe it's because they will have more A320s out of commission doing the reconfigurations.

The new schedule update will show if they intend to increase frequency on some of the BOS routes like CLE/BNA.

jetbluefan1 wrote:
fastmover wrote:

Most of that stuff is way over my head. I don’t have the numbers like our planners do. What does get me is the no room argument. If that’s the case why is it airliners.net gospel that Delta will push JetBlue out of Boston? Many new Delta routes have AA and JetBlue on them so there isn’t “room” but it’s Delta so they will make room....lol.

Look it’s easy the plane could make more money in another place. JetBlue doesn’t like to have a route just to have one unless it’s for a political reason. We just don’t have extra planes to waste.


I agree that the "room" argument is not so simplistic. B6 has coexisted with DL at JFK for a very long time and there are no signs of that changing, and it's hard to see why the same wouldn't happen at BOS. Moreover B6 remains the largest carrier at BOS by a large margin, and has access to more gates, so it's not like DL can leapfrog B6 without there being some very big changes to the BOS gate situation. The lack of FIS at Terminal A will also continue to make the market a difficult international transit point for DL customers.

I also think that, to a certain extent, people are already pre-judging what will happen at BOS before we have even arrived to the most "extreme" part of the competition. Only recently has DL entered or announced its plans to enter UA/AA mega-hubs from BOS, which is where DL stands to experience the most pain and where B6 has already established itself. Somehow, I don't think those 76-seaters to PHL, EWR, ORD, and DCA are going to make money all that easily. DL also remains uncompetitive to SFO, is tied for #3 to LAX, and still has a lot of large dots to connect which will also face a lot of competition (IAH, DFW, DEN, PHX to name a few). So it remains to be seen how long DL is willing to sustain large capacity dumps to other airlines' hubs in order to build up its BOS presence. I would suspect a lot of this depends on how well the domestic economy continues to perform, which will directly impact DL's money-printing operations at ATL, MSP, and DTW which allow DL to experiment with build-ups in places like SEA, RDU, and yes - BOS.


B6 is dying narrative seems to be more fun to talk about on a.net than B6 is a competitive airline that will continue to thrive. I think given the Q4 numbers we've seen, we are already seeing that the adjustments they made at LGB helping the bottom line. And the tweaks they made in Q1 will continue to help that trend. It's interesting that in a couple of years, they've gone from a network that's really dependent on BOS to achieve above average margin to one that is more dependent on JFK and FLL. It shows how well their build up at FLL has been and how valuable those JFK slots are.

I see a few possibilities going forward:
1) DL turns their BOS station performance around well enough that they keep most of the routes they've added + add a few more monopolies. And they co-exist nicely with B6. That way BOS will become another JFK. Except since BOS is not slot constrained, I think it will continue to be not as profitable as JFK. Which makes its next expansion at MCO a little harder. Since they will basically be banking MCO expansion on FLL/JFK profits only.
2) DL's performance at BOS continues to be awful and economy takes a bad turn. In this case, I think B6 will just push DL out. At some point DL will say enough is enough and give up routes they will always hemorrage money on like PIT/BUF/SFO/CLE/EWR/ORD/PHL. That will give B6 3 solidly profitable focus cities with BOS being extremely high margined. Then, they can build up MCO to really compete with WN. MCO will probably never be as profitable as FLL, but I think they can grow it to become as large as WN and be the primary international carrier there.
3) A downturn happens and B6 margin goes down so much that it faces a lot more buy out pressure and have to stop their BOS growth to protect margin.

I personally think 2) is most likely here, but i'm quite biased. A lot of people think 1) is likely, but imo that would rely on DL being willing to tolerate even worse margin at BOS than NYC (which is already a really low margined station for them). Some people seem to think B6 is doomed and 3) will be the outcome, but I think that's quite unlikely.

Other variable here is if JFK will loose slotting at some point. That could shift B6 expansion back to JFK. And there are other airlines that factor here too. If NK continues to do well at DTW and SY continues to add more daily routes out of MSP for example, that would decrease DL performance there. All quite unknowns.
 
CaptCoolHand
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:18 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
unusualattitude wrote:
windian425 wrote:
No A320NEO's this year?

No A320 NEOs period. All airbus deliveries from this point forward are A321 NEOs.


Even the regular A321NEO should EASILY reach Western Europe. So...no more excuses NOT to fly to Europe, B6!


Getting to the party isn't nearly as hard as getting home from the party.

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