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N757ST
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:38 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Look for more flights to ONT not BUR. I know from BZE is on the short list for new cities. You’ll see more movement after next Monday. IAD/DAB/SXM closure and the BWI/DTW/PIT flight cuts to FLL. Look for some connect the dots cities soon


SXM isnt going anywhere (they’re adding FLL), iad and dab stop on Sunday. Your predictions in the last thread were less then credible. You seem to be “guessing”.
 
tysmith95
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:06 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:42 pm

impilot wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
evank516 wrote:

Think of all the slots they have at LGA and JFK (though UA doesn't fly to JFK). Wonder how much (if any) they'd have to divest as a result of the massive EWR hub.

That is certainly an issue for them.

But the real problem is this. JetBlue is an LCC that has stimulated markets with low fares. United can’t make money at B6 fares and when they try to raise fares, traffic would shrink. Possibly dramatically. Yes NYC could be a regulatory problem, UA would lose badly to DL in BOS and NK plus WN would slaughter UA in price sensitive FLL. But the problem is B6 network isn’t profitable at legacy costs. Period. There is no revenue premium United could drive in most ofB6’s network by being a global carrier. The revenue synergy doesn’t exist to make up for the higher costs.


Does jetblue really have lower fares? Most of the times I’ve compared on overlapping markets with legacies, JetBlue isn’t any cheaper. Sometimes it’s more expensive. Sometimes it’s a little cheaper. Just depends. But generally people don’t fly jetblue because it’s cheaper from point A to point B than brand X, at least not anecdotally from my experience. I would say that JetBlue’s status as an LCC isn’t necessarily due to low ticket costs, but lower cost structure and higher aircraft utilization than the legacy carriers. So I’m not sure I buy the theory that price sensitive flyers would avoid UA post hypothetical merger on routes currently flown by B6 due to fare increases, bc I believe that’s a false premise.


Today there isin't much of a difference between legacy's and LCC. Really the only difference is history and flying long haul.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3017
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:59 pm

FLL Might be ripe for a Legacy/Network carrier in the event of a UA Merger. Take out places like SWF, SYR, ALB, SLC, PHX and replace it with regional flying to SE markets that have minimal So Fla service like SAV, TLH, GSP, AVL, CHS, ECP, BHM while keeping it as a Caribbean and Central America gateway. AA and DL have a solid presence at FLL in spite f of the LCC's because the demand is there. B6 + UA could have a serious play for the business market there which is likely much larger than people give it credit for.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Brickell305
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:15 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
FLL Might be ripe for a Legacy/Network carrier in the event of a UA Merger. Take out places like SWF, SYR, ALB, SLC, PHX and replace it with regional flying to SE markets that have minimal So Fla service like SAV, TLH, GSP, AVL, CHS, ECP, BHM while keeping it as a Caribbean and Central America gateway. AA and DL have a solid presence at FLL in spite f of the LCC's because the demand is there. B6 + UA could have a serious play for the business market there which is likely much larger than people give it credit for.

There is definitely business traffic there. The issue is that much of the business traffic across So. Fla is international and it’s hard to match the frequency/scope of what AA offers both internationally and domestically. This is exacerbated by the fact that the international business traffic generally prefers MIA to FLL. An FLL based carrier would primarily be competing with AA for domestic business traffic while ceding the lion’s share of the international business traffic to AA. Very difficult to do well in that type of market if you’re a legacy.
 
evank516
Posts: 1944
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:21 pm

N757ST wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Look for more flights to ONT not BUR. I know from BZE is on the short list for new cities. You’ll see more movement after next Monday. IAD/DAB/SXM closure and the BWI/DTW/PIT flight cuts to FLL. Look for some connect the dots cities soon


SXM isnt going anywhere (they’re adding FLL), iad and dab stop on Sunday. Your predictions in the last thread were less then credible. You seem to be “guessing”.

Last flights to IAD and DAB take place on Monday, January 7, 2019. PWM will also see its last flight that day until the Summer.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3017
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:51 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
There is definitely business traffic there. The issue is that much of the business traffic across So. Fla is international and it’s hard to match the frequency/scope of what AA offers both internationally and domestically. This is exacerbated by the fact that the international business traffic generally prefers MIA to FLL. An FLL based carrier would primarily be competing with AA for domestic business traffic while ceding the lion’s share of the international business traffic to AA. Very difficult to do well in that type of market if you’re a legacy.


Yes, nothing will come close to the size/scale/scope of what AA/MIA is, but I think theres enough north of Miami to support a "lite" version at FLL.

What is the #2 airline of choice for business travelers So Fla? is it DL or B6? both offer rather limited networks. B6 + UA would shake up the So Fla market for sure.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:52 pm

impilot wrote:

Does jetblue really have lower fares? Most of the times I’ve compared on overlapping markets with legacies, JetBlue isn’t any cheaper. Sometimes it’s more expensive. Sometimes it’s a little cheaper. Just depends. But generally people don’t fly jetblue because it’s cheaper from point A to point B than brand X, at least not anecdotally from my experience. I would say that JetBlue’s status as an LCC isn’t necessarily due to low ticket costs, but lower cost structure and higher aircraft utilization than the legacy carriers. So I’m not sure I buy the theory that price sensitive flyers would avoid UA post hypothetical merger on routes currently flown by B6 due to fare increases, bc I believe that’s a false premise.


As someone that only flies them out of BOS I can't really speak for the whole network. B6 and DL are in a full on price war on routes they both fly and they keep playing this game of chicken where one slashes their fare and the other matches it. Been amazing as a consumer, but eventually something is going need to give. I've never seen such cheap fares in BOS. Traditionally B6 was always slightly more expensive than the legacies. But people still flew them because they saw more value and got things that many legacies didn't offer (snacks, free checked bag, IFE). I know many legacies have since brought snacks back and B6 charges for checked bags now. But I'm speaking more to the origin of B6 in BOS.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:00 pm

tysmith95 wrote:
impilot wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
That is certainly an issue for them.

But the real problem is this. JetBlue is an LCC that has stimulated markets with low fares. United can’t make money at B6 fares and when they try to raise fares, traffic would shrink. Possibly dramatically. Yes NYC could be a regulatory problem, UA would lose badly to DL in BOS and NK plus WN would slaughter UA in price sensitive FLL. But the problem is B6 network isn’t profitable at legacy costs. Period. There is no revenue premium United could drive in most ofB6’s network by being a global carrier. The revenue synergy doesn’t exist to make up for the higher costs.


Does jetblue really have lower fares? Most of the times I’ve compared on overlapping markets with legacies, JetBlue isn’t any cheaper. Sometimes it’s more expensive. Sometimes it’s a little cheaper. Just depends. But generally people don’t fly jetblue because it’s cheaper from point A to point B than brand X, at least not anecdotally from my experience. I would say that JetBlue’s status as an LCC isn’t necessarily due to low ticket costs, but lower cost structure and higher aircraft utilization than the legacy carriers. So I’m not sure I buy the theory that price sensitive flyers would avoid UA post hypothetical merger on routes currently flown by B6 due to fare increases, bc I believe that’s a false premise.


Today there isin't much of a difference between legacy's and LCC. Really the only difference is history and flying long haul.

Labor costs especially legacy employees. You believe it is a false premise that price sensitive travelers wouldn’t avoid UA due to fare increases? That’s the definition of price sensitivity.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:03 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
There is definitely business traffic there. The issue is that much of the business traffic across So. Fla is international and it’s hard to match the frequency/scope of what AA offers both internationally and domestically. This is exacerbated by the fact that the international business traffic generally prefers MIA to FLL. An FLL based carrier would primarily be competing with AA for domestic business traffic while ceding the lion’s share of the international business traffic to AA. Very difficult to do well in that type of market if you’re a legacy.


Yes, nothing will come close to the size/scale/scope of what AA/MIA is, but I think theres enough north of Miami to support a "lite" version at FLL.

What is the #2 airline of choice for business travelers So Fla? is it DL or B6? both offer rather limited networks. B6 + UA would shake up the So Fla market for sure.

United would get runout of FLL by WN and NK.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:07 pm

AA only serves hubs from FLL and DL only serves hubs plus focus cities like RDU.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:10 pm

Galvan316 wrote:
How well does B6 do at ORD?

Not that anyone cares, but i just booked ORD-FLL for 5/4

Not sure what your post means but I’ll try to answer your question.
B6 flies to 3 cities from ORD: JFK, BOS and FLL.
BOS is 4x (5 from March)
JFK is 2x
FLL is 1x
They haven’t strayed much from the # of flights thru the years but have changed destinations.
They used to fly to LGB but dropped that for BOS and SJU was dropped for FLL, although the same plane continues on to SJU.
I’m not privy to any financial #s but they’ve been pretty stagnant since they’ve been at ORD. They complain about only having 1 gate, which is true, but I heard they had the chance at another gate but didn’t add enough flights so the city said no. Don’t know if that is true but I was told of that from a gate agent.
I think ORD will be around but it doesn’t seem like it will grow much more than it is, at least in the foreseeable future. Just my 2 cents.
 
impilot
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:38 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:13 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
tysmith95 wrote:
impilot wrote:

Does jetblue really have lower fares? Most of the times I’ve compared on overlapping markets with legacies, JetBlue isn’t any cheaper. Sometimes it’s more expensive. Sometimes it’s a little cheaper. Just depends. But generally people don’t fly jetblue because it’s cheaper from point A to point B than brand X, at least not anecdotally from my experience. I would say that JetBlue’s status as an LCC isn’t necessarily due to low ticket costs, but lower cost structure and higher aircraft utilization than the legacy carriers. So I’m not sure I buy the theory that price sensitive flyers would avoid UA post hypothetical merger on routes currently flown by B6 due to fare increases, bc I believe that’s a false premise.


Today there isin't much of a difference between legacy's and LCC. Really the only difference is history and flying long haul.

Labor costs especially legacy employees. You believe it is a false premise that price sensitive travelers wouldn’t avoid UA due to fare increases? That’s the definition of price sensitivity.


No. It’s a false premise that UA fares (or hypothetical UA fares in a merger) are higher than B6 pure fares. B6 ticket prices aren’t generally less than those of the legacies. Your premise that they are is false.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3017
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:16 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
United would get runout of FLL by WN and NK.

Not if they transformed it into a network like operation. United has a lot of regional assets and WN/NK can only fly to places that support 150-200 seat aircraft. Trade FLL- SWF SYR ALB SLC PHX for FLL-SAV, CHS, ECP, GSP, AVL, PNS, BHM, MOB at 1-3x daily on 50-70 seat aircraft.

WN and NK wont touch you there, it supports the international gateway and augments IAH and IAD to plug the missing piece in the UA network.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Galvan316
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:43 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:49 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
Galvan316 wrote:
How well does B6 do at ORD?

Not that anyone cares, but i just booked ORD-FLL for 5/4

Not sure what your post means but I’ll try to answer your question.
B6 flies to 3 cities from ORD: JFK, BOS and FLL.
BOS is 4x (5 from March)
JFK is 2x
FLL is 1x
They haven’t strayed much from the # of flights thru the years but have changed destinations.
They used to fly to LGB but dropped that for BOS and SJU was dropped for FLL, although the same plane continues on to SJU.
I’m not privy to any financial #s but they’ve been pretty stagnant since they’ve been at ORD. They complain about only having 1 gate, which is true, but I heard they had the chance at another gate but didn’t add enough flights so the city said no. Don’t know if that is true but I was told of that from a gate agent.
I think ORD will be around but it doesn’t seem like it will grow much more than it is, at least in the foreseeable future. Just my 2 cents.



I was just asking about their flights and such out of ORD. Which you answered for me and more!

Thank you for the education!

Is FLL one of JetBlue's Hub/Focus cities?
ORD and MDW is where youll find Me!
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5396
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:01 pm

I think hes confusing SXM with St Croix

St Croix was also cut with IAD DAB and PWM
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:40 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
United would get runout of FLL by WN and NK.

Not if they transformed it into a network like operation. United has a lot of regional assets and WN/NK can only fly to places that support 150-200 seat aircraft. Trade FLL- SWF SYR ALB SLC PHX for FLL-SAV, CHS, ECP, GSP, AVL, PNS, BHM, MOB at 1-3x daily on 50-70 seat aircraft.

WN and NK wont touch you there, it supports the international gateway and augments IAH and IAD to plug the missing piece in the UA network.

hmmm..RJs into a leisure destination with little business traffic to the cities you list......no..BTW NK is growing into those types of markets. We'll see how they do.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:43 pm

impilot wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
tysmith95 wrote:

Today there isin't much of a difference between legacy's and LCC. Really the only difference is history and flying long haul.

Labor costs especially legacy employees. You believe it is a false premise that price sensitive travelers wouldn’t avoid UA due to fare increases? That’s the definition of price sensitivity.


No. It’s a false premise that UA fares (or hypothetical UA fares in a merger) are higher than B6 pure fares. B6 ticket prices aren’t generally less than those of the legacies. Your premise that they are is false.

ever hear of yield management? UA may match those fares but they also have much higher fare to offset those low fares and the limit lowest fare availability. The problem is the ability to "sell up" from the basic fare to a more reasonable fare where UA can make a profit is severely limited should they hub in FLL where NK and WN are the incumbent carriers and the market is mostly leisure.

UA buying B6 is a horrible idea for UA and for the traveling public.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3017
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:52 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:

UA buying B6 is a horrible idea for UA and for the traveling public.


I will agree with the second half... anything they would say to the DOJ to get this passed would be a bold-faced lie straight out of the WN/FL merger handbook.

There are a lot of pluses for UA though
1) Greater SE presence with FLL, potential to be a major player in the SoFL biz market (its far from being all leisure)
2) they become the NYC hometown airline (even with divesting most of JFK...cut a deal with Neeleman for his old T5 for Moxy?)
3) one less LCC competitor
4) keeps west coast strong for them so B6 doesn't join up with AS or HA
5) Divest some BOS assets to DL so DL can focus there and not NYC

UA could have a lot to gain is they are willing to go through the major hassle. That all said, the traveling public is the loser.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
evank516
Posts: 1944
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:54 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
Galvan316 wrote:
How well does B6 do at ORD?

Not that anyone cares, but i just booked ORD-FLL for 5/4

Not sure what your post means but I’ll try to answer your question.
B6 flies to 3 cities from ORD: JFK, BOS and FLL.
BOS is 4x (5 from March)
JFK is 2x
FLL is 1x
They haven’t strayed much from the # of flights thru the years but have changed destinations.
They used to fly to LGB but dropped that for BOS and SJU was dropped for FLL, although the same plane continues on to SJU.
I’m not privy to any financial #s but they’ve been pretty stagnant since they’ve been at ORD. They complain about only having 1 gate, which is true, but I heard they had the chance at another gate but didn’t add enough flights so the city said no. Don’t know if that is true but I was told of that from a gate agent.
I think ORD will be around but it doesn’t seem like it will grow much more than it is, at least in the foreseeable future. Just my 2 cents.


JFK-ORD is actually cut in half from the 4 flights they had in 2017.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:02 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:

UA buying B6 is a horrible idea for UA and for the traveling public.


I will agree with the second half... anything they would say to the DOJ to get this passed would be a bold-faced lie straight out of the WN/FL merger handbook.

There are a lot of pluses for UA though
1) Greater SE presence with FLL, potential to be a major player in the SoFL biz market (its far from being all leisure)
2) they become the NYC hometown airline (even with divesting most of JFK...cut a deal with Neeleman for his old T5 for Moxy?)
3) one less LCC competitor
4) keeps west coast strong for them so B6 doesn't join up with AS or HA
5) Divest some BOS assets to DL so DL can focus there and not NYC

UA could have a lot to gain is they are willing to go through the major hassle. That all said, the traveling public is the loser.


Well if there is one less LCC competitor that is saying fares would go up. Some say UA needs a SE presence, but that supposes a hub like CLT or ATL. Not a leisure hub. And I forgot MCO. That would be fun for them.

B6 joining AS/HA doesnt impact UA very much.

WN could getaway with FL because WN was the premier LCC and lowfare carrier.
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1173
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:07 pm

It’s about damn time for CLT-FLL/MCO
-Andrés Juánez
 
MR27122
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 3:00 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:04 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
AA94 wrote:

Where have these been swirling? In your head, as usual?

Predicting B6's imminent demise by reply two has to be a new record.

Before I explain why, I want everyone to think a bit as to why united buying JetBlue would be a colossal failure. Because it would


Fun game. Let me try:

If United would buy JetBlue, it would trash Mint and convert everything to United Business/F. JetBlue as a boutique, upscale experience would seize to exist. Scores of customers (including myself) would immediately bail and probably fly DL. In effect, United would just have thrown money into a black hole. I bet United shareholders would be made as hell.


So... did I win anything?


Recognition for horrible grammar? I'm kinda joking!!! Aside from that, you're points are salient. Based off the fantastically tiny "sample size" of myself...if UAL were to buy B6, I'd become an Amtrak loyalists. B6's pax-facing engagement remains unmatched in my estimation...no matter if employees have grown less enthusiastic, I don't "see it". The "skies" sans B6 would be far less "friendly". I don't "hate on" any airline....UA's last moment-of-genius competitive move was for $750 mil & the purchase of PA's Asia...yet I "think" that move was made whilst "building" Allegis (UA/Hertz/Westin). Anytime a large corporation has to "focus group" the name of the Parent Company...it's a bad omen. On a trivial note....I love "mint"...& I would like to know exactly how B6 imagineered it prior to launch & delivered a unique high-end product that is pretty much universally recognized as among the very best offerings in the North American transcon market.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2656
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:13 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
There is definitely business traffic there. The issue is that much of the business traffic across So. Fla is international and it’s hard to match the frequency/scope of what AA offers both internationally and domestically. This is exacerbated by the fact that the international business traffic generally prefers MIA to FLL. An FLL based carrier would primarily be competing with AA for domestic business traffic while ceding the lion’s share of the international business traffic to AA. Very difficult to do well in that type of market if you’re a legacy.


Yes, nothing will come close to the size/scale/scope of what AA/MIA is, but I think theres enough north of Miami to support a "lite" version at FLL.

What is the #2 airline of choice for business travelers So Fla? is it DL or B6? both offer rather limited networks. B6 + UA would shake up the So Fla market for sure.


WN actually has greater market share on domestic air travel in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market than any of its low-cost competitors (even B6), and WN actually has nonstop service out of FLL to a few markets that do not currently have any B6 presence such as BZE, CMH, IND, MCI, MKE, SAT, and STL. There are also additional domestic destinations not served by B6 that WN could add nonstop service to out of FLL such as CVG, SDF, and OMA.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:21 pm

Sorry yah I got it mixed up
Closures: Dab/iAd/stx
Route closures: bwi-fll/mco dtw-fll/pit-fll/lgb-fll/ sju-sti
Frequency reduction: mex-fll/mco
Seasonal: Pwm adding Hpn-ack for summer
Also ton of bos/fll/pbi/jfk frequency added
 
Blueknows
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:23 pm

Silver airways/seaborne is picking up dAb and stx slack and codeshare with B6
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:49 pm

Galvan316 wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
Galvan316 wrote:
How well does B6 do at ORD?

Not that anyone cares, but i just booked ORD-FLL for 5/4

Not sure what your post means but I’ll try to answer your question.
B6 flies to 3 cities from ORD: JFK, BOS and FLL.
BOS is 4x (5 from March)
JFK is 2x
FLL is 1x
They haven’t strayed much from the # of flights thru the years but have changed destinations.
They used to fly to LGB but dropped that for BOS and SJU was dropped for FLL, although the same plane continues on to SJU.
I’m not privy to any financial #s but they’ve been pretty stagnant since they’ve been at ORD. They complain about only having 1 gate, which is true, but I heard they had the chance at another gate but didn’t add enough flights so the city said no. Don’t know if that is true but I was told of that from a gate agent.
I think ORD will be around but it doesn’t seem like it will grow much more than it is, at least in the foreseeable future. Just my 2 cents.



I was just asking about their flights and such out of ORD. Which you answered for me and more!

Thank you for the education!

Is FLL one of JetBlue's Hub/Focus cities?

Your welcome. I didn’t mean any offense, I just didn’t understand your “ not that anyone cares” comment.
That’s all.
I’d love to see them add more but I’m not sure what more could be added now.
1 or 2 more FLL flights?
1 or 2 MCO flights?
SJU nonstop resumption?
I’d like to see more JFK but they’re already moving in the wrong direction for that.
Just like evank516 stated above, they will stay with only 2 flights instead of the 4 they have run in the summer before. I just don’t see any of the above changing except maybe just maybe another FLL, but I highly doubt it.
I think they had a real chance at making ORD a larger station, not a hub but something like PBI or BDL in number of flights and passengers, but they were too conservative. They were in before NK really start to build up ORD and before F9 moved from MDW to ORD. Now they would be hard pressed to add any of the above without competition from one or both and of course UA and AA as well.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:32 pm

Ok so I’ll let you in on a secret... Jetblue is not looking to expand in the Midwest. If you ask any high level management. They will tell you Jetblue is a point to point airline. They are in the business of getting people from the focus cities to vacation destinations. They do not build schedules for connecting flights. It just happened that way.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:34 pm

But Jetblue is also not stupid and flights like pit-bos are in the top grossing flights
 
N757ST
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:21 am

Blueknows wrote:
Ok so I’ll let you in on a secret... Jetblue is not looking to expand in the Midwest. If you ask any high level management. They will tell you Jetblue is a point to point airline. They are in the business of getting people from the focus cities to vacation destinations. They do not build schedules for connecting flights. It just happened that way.


No, they aren’t. They have diverging strategy’s for different markets. Boston is buisness focused, jfk vacation. That said, both dabble into each other. How many times have you talked to “high level mangement” to hear their secrets? If you want to speculate then do so but please stop acting like you have insider info... I don’t think you do.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:45 am

N757ST wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Ok so I’ll let you in on a secret... Jetblue is not looking to expand in the Midwest. If you ask any high level management. They will tell you Jetblue is a point to point airline. They are in the business of getting people from the focus cities to vacation destinations. They do not build schedules for connecting flights. It just happened that way.


No, they aren’t. They have diverging strategy’s for different markets. Boston is buisness focused, jfk vacation. That said, both dabble into each other. How many times have you talked to “high level mangement” to hear their secrets? If you want to speculate then do so but please stop acting like you have insider info... I don’t think you do.



I agree and they have been very clear about that.
I also agree that blueknows should be careful after his post that was totally wrong. I’m not sure who he is but he is not as connected as he thinks.

Honestly nobody except the ELT knows what the plan is and that’s if they know. They have become so quiet and lack so much communication it’s not even funny. The email from RH was the most I have seen from our CEO in a long time. All I can assume is that it’s just their style but I feel like it goes against being good leaders. The whole airline is in the dark about anything. It’s pretty much go to work go home. Lsc (HQ) may not be like that but the rest of the airline is.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:17 am

Blueknows wrote:
Ok so I’ll let you in on a secret... Jetblue is not looking to expand in the Midwest.


I wouldn't be too confident on that one
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6YBLUE
Posts: 18
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:29 am

jfklganyc wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


A UA takeover does not equal demise. Quite the opposite. For employees, it means more money and job security. For shareholders, a windfall.


You're either an airline fanatic who's never worked or actually know anything about the industry, or an incredibly disconnected wanna be arm chair CEO. The last takeover we saw (VX/AS), did not end well for thousands of employees. It never does. The whole point of takeovers is to eliminate a competitor or expand your turf. Employees ALWAYS get axed as you don't need the manpower that comes with. Majority non union B6 employees will not benefit from a pay raise to match UA as there is no legal binding Railway Labor law that requires them to unless they wanted and why would they. Either stay on or kick rocks.

Finally, No one at B6 is talking about a UA takeover apart from the same few pilots for the last 15yrs who are bored and have nothing better to do than spread rumors and propaganda.



Your VX analogy is telling to your ignorance of basic economic principles.

VX failed to earn money for much of its existence. It was on the verge of collapse several times.

The pilots and flight attendants of VX may complain about changes...But they have been integrated into a much stronger, more stable company with higher pay.

There are workgroups that really got screwed in mergers (TWA comes to mind)

For all the merger complaints of VX and AirTran...Even the guys that were demoted to first officer...They all made more money; they all have better job security as part of a bigger company. Hindsight is 20/20 but most will look back at those mergers as good things for their careers...even if integration was unnerving.

Pan Am, Eastern...these were “demises”

A B6/UA merger would not be a demise, especially if thet got a purchase price of 40 or better per share



Is that right. I know first hand of a majority of VX crew members who were let go in multiple markets. I also know first hand of pilots who are being furloughed and that's before AS scraps the 320's come 2020. Please don't tell me or spread this notion that mergers are good for employees on a whole. Its a lie and irresponsible especially for the possibly affected employees at a smaller airline like B6.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:10 am

Blueknows wrote:
But Jetblue is also not stupid and flights like pit-bos are in the top grossing flights

So “top grossing” equates to $58-59 fares being offered by DL and B6 on a route that is going to be 10x daily on CRJ9s and E190s in the Spring and averaged loads in the 70s this past summer?

Sorry, but BOS-PIT is no longer a high-yielding route for JetBlue like it was in 2016.
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Dieuwer
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:23 am

Bobloblaw wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
Before I explain why, I want everyone to think a bit as to why united buying JetBlue would be a colossal failure. Because it would


Fun game. Let me try:

If United would buy JetBlue, it would trash Mint and convert everything to United Business/F. JetBlue as a boutique, upscale experience would seize to exist. Scores of customers (including myself) would immediately bail and probably fly DL. In effect, United would just have thrown money into a black hole. I bet United shareholders would be made as hell.


So... did I win anything?

Mint is only a small portion of B6’s ASMs. So while that probably would happen. It isn’t the most serious problem UA would have by buying an LCC (hint).


Since when is JetBlue a LCC?? :confused:
 
Blueknows
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:08 pm

Why is it that everyone here think B6 is trying to expand outside of its core vacation markets?The company is trying to increase revenue through multiple revenue streams in the travel ribbon...Jetblue vacations / Jetblue ventures/jet suite x/ TWA hotel/Blue inc.
 
Blueknows
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:19 pm

B6 doesn’t fly 6 flights a day BOS-PIT because they are not making money. B6 has limited amount of AC. Planes are put on routes that make the most money. They will also fly to cities if they give enough insentives. Research the DAB insentive package to get B6 to start its service.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:23 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Why is it that everyone here think B6 is trying to expand outside of its core vacation markets?The company is trying to increase revenue through multiple revenue streams in the travel ribbon...Jetblue vacations / Jetblue ventures/jet suite x/ TWA hotel/Blue inc.


Going for LHR slots instead of LGW/STN would be a good starting point.
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N757ST
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:24 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Why is it that everyone here think B6 is trying to expand outside of its core vacation markets?The company is trying to increase revenue through multiple revenue streams in the travel ribbon...Jetblue vacations / Jetblue ventures/jet suite x/ TWA hotel/Blue inc.


JFK-ATL, mint to Sea, San, most Boston markets are not “core vacation” routes, yet this is part of recent expansion. Now with this “redeployment” of assets yes I think there is some re-intrenchment into leisure markets. That said, future expansion looks to be very heavy in Boston and FLL, which means close to a 50/50 split of business and leisure expansion.

Jetblue has a share of, but does not own the twa hotel nor jetsuite x.
 
Blueknows
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:39 pm

Your right on that ..it’s investing in other products along the travel ribbon. BOS has started flying to certain markets because of the pure fact of disrupting market and making money. DL still crushes in ATL. They won’t even let Jetblue use the same gates for flights.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:54 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
But Jetblue is also not stupid and flights like pit-bos are in the top grossing flights

So “top grossing” equates to $58-59 fares being offered by DL and B6 on a route that is going to be 10x daily on CRJ9s and E190s in the Spring and averaged loads in the 70s this past summer?

Sorry, but BOS-PIT is no longer a high-yielding route for JetBlue like it was in 2016.


Yeah B6 triumphantly announced how they were printing money on that route....and DL said "Oh really?? you don't say??". Now its full on price war with both dumping more capacity at it.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:12 pm

6YBLUE wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:

You're either an airline fanatic who's never worked or actually know anything about the industry, or an incredibly disconnected wanna be arm chair CEO. The last takeover we saw (VX/AS), did not end well for thousands of employees. It never does. The whole point of takeovers is to eliminate a competitor or expand your turf. Employees ALWAYS get axed as you don't need the manpower that comes with. Majority non union B6 employees will not benefit from a pay raise to match UA as there is no legal binding Railway Labor law that requires them to unless they wanted and why would they. Either stay on or kick rocks.

Finally, No one at B6 is talking about a UA takeover apart from the same few pilots for the last 15yrs who are bored and have nothing better to do than spread rumors and propaganda.



Your VX analogy is telling to your ignorance of basic economic principles.

VX failed to earn money for much of its existence. It was on the verge of collapse several times.

The pilots and flight attendants of VX may complain about changes...But they have been integrated into a much stronger, more stable company with higher pay.

There are workgroups that really got screwed in mergers (TWA comes to mind)

For all the merger complaints of VX and AirTran...Even the guys that were demoted to first officer...They all made more money; they all have better job security as part of a bigger company. Hindsight is 20/20 but most will look back at those mergers as good things for their careers...even if integration was unnerving.

Pan Am, Eastern...these were “demises”

A B6/UA merger would not be a demise, especially if thet got a purchase price of 40 or better per share



Is that right. I know first hand of a majority of VX crew members who were let go in multiple markets. I also know first hand of pilots who are being furloughed and that's before AS scraps the 320's come 2020. Please don't tell me or spread this notion that mergers are good for employees on a whole. Its a lie and irresponsible especially for the possibly affected employees at a smaller airline like B6.



Ok. Enough with the Bull on this site.

Put up time.

How many VX pilots were furloughed by AS? When were they furloughed?

I want numbers and dates.
 
nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:12 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Ok so I’ll let you in on a secret... Jetblue is not looking to expand in the Midwest. If you ask any high level management. They will tell you Jetblue is a point to point airline. They are in the business of getting people from the focus cities to vacation destinations. They do not build schedules for connecting flights. It just happened that way.



With your “insider knowledge” and predictions: If you were a professional baseball player, your batting average would be under .100

Been pretty quiet with B6 for awhile.if anyone knows, Do they have an upcoming schedule release or some upcoming meeting or event where new routes/slashed routes will be announced in the near future?
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TheLunchbox
Posts: 45
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:22 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Your VX analogy is telling to your ignorance of basic economic principles.

VX failed to earn money for much of its existence. It was on the verge of collapse several times.

The pilots and flight attendants of VX may complain about changes...But they have been integrated into a much stronger, more stable company with higher pay.

There are workgroups that really got screwed in mergers (TWA comes to mind)

For all the merger complaints of VX and AirTran...Even the guys that were demoted to first officer...They all made more money; they all have better job security as part of a bigger company. Hindsight is 20/20 but most will look back at those mergers as good things for their careers...even if integration was unnerving.

Pan Am, Eastern...these were “demises”

A B6/UA merger would not be a demise, especially if thet got a purchase price of 40 or better per share



Is that right. I know first hand of a majority of VX crew members who were let go in multiple markets. I also know first hand of pilots who are being furloughed and that's before AS scraps the 320's come 2020. Please don't tell me or spread this notion that mergers are good for employees on a whole. Its a lie and irresponsible especially for the possibly affected employees at a smaller airline like B6.



Ok. Enough with the Bull on this site.

Put up time.

How many VX pilots were furloughed by AS? When were they furloughed?

I want numbers and dates.


i'm still waiting to learn more about these "strong" United rumors you mentioned. :liar:
 
Blueknows
Posts: 265
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:22 pm

We’ve heard maybe something will be announced this month. Since stations closing on Monday will see. Even internally they are keeping things very hush hush
 
airbazar
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:47 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Since when is JetBlue a LCC?? :confused:

Since their creation in 1999 :)
Having said that I don't know if they label themselves that way anymore. As someone posted above, there really is no significant difference between LCC's and non-LCC's anymore.
For what it's worth this is the first line in JetBlue's wikipedia page: "JetBlue Airways Corporation, stylized as jetBlue, is an American low-cost airline headquartered in New York City."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetBlue
 
nine4nine
Posts: 480
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:20 pm

airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Since when is JetBlue a LCC?? :confused:

Since their creation in 1999 :)
Having said that I don't know if they label themselves that way anymore. As someone posted above, there really is no significant difference between LCC's and non-LCC's anymore.
For what it's worth this is the first line in JetBlue's wikipedia page: "JetBlue Airways Corporation, stylized as jetBlue, is an American low-cost airline headquartered in New York City."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetBlue



Probably because they tend to be about $100-300 USD less on average than the Big3 on many routes, especially BOS,FLL (Inc MIA), and JFK. They are very much an LCC.

I like to fly DL on my business trips to JFK from the LA area because I can use the lounge with my Amex, but B6 has consistently low prices from all LA area airports compared to the majors and has a better product than all the BIG3 although DL comes close for me.
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tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:39 pm

I just realized with gov't shutdown, the fare total might not be available until that's over. bummer.

VS4ever wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
SJU - Trim capacity to JFK/FLL/MCO/BOS further, given continued weakness in the PR market.


While i completely understand why you would say that and it has complete logic, i hope to goodness they don't cut back SJU-BOS further, as my company has an office there and it's already pretty rough to get out and back, would I be surprised if they did? nope... i just hope they don't.

JFK and MCO are not doing great due to the PR weakness. BOS-SJU is quite profitable as a monopoly. I think they are trying to run DL off JFK-SJU/STI/SDQ. A lot of capacity next summer out of JFK. We will see. DL seems to be committed to battling B6 on certain routes even when they are bleeding money.

MIflyer12 wrote:
Mint is a good product but B6 will need to launch with decent frequency to get business travelers. AA/BA shows 12x JFK-LHR tomorrow; DL/VS is 8x. UA is 5x EWR-LHR. At BOS, AA/BA is 3x; DL/VS is 2x.

I don't know if B6 has the balls or free cash flow to start JFK-LHR at 4x daily.

4x on JFK-LHR seems to be what they requested for based on one of the links i saw on BOS threads. But I don't see them getting the 7 slots they are asking for. Realistically, they will probably start off at twice a day on both routes imo. Which given B6's leisure profile in NYC, they should do okay in. There are always people willing to pay more to fly B6 out of NYC. They do really well to CLT/ATL/DEN with just 2 flights a day.

Bobloblaw wrote:
That is certainly an issue for them.

But the real problem is this. JetBlue is an LCC that has stimulated markets with low fares. United can’t make money at B6 fares and when they try to raise fares, traffic would shrink. Possibly dramatically. Yes NYC could be a regulatory problem, UA would lose badly to DL in BOS and NK plus WN would slaughter UA in price sensitive FLL. But the problem is B6 network isn’t profitable at legacy costs. Period. There is no revenue premium United could drive in most ofB6’s network by being a global carrier. The revenue synergy doesn’t exist to make up for the higher costs.

yep, agreed 100% here. I can see how UA could make B6 network out of JFK work. Why I always said WN made the most sense.

pitbosflyer wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
But Jetblue is also not stupid and flights like pit-bos are in the top grossing flights

So “top grossing” equates to $58-59 fares being offered by DL and B6 on a route that is going to be 10x daily on CRJ9s and E190s in the Spring and averaged loads in the 70s this past summer?

Sorry, but BOS-PIT is no longer a high-yielding route for JetBlue like it was in 2016.


Yeah B6 triumphantly announced how they were printing money on that route....and DL said "Oh really?? you don't say??". Now its full on price war with both dumping more capacity at it.

What DL is doing on BOS-PIT is unsustainable. They are getting less than half of the yield that they get on LGA-PIT. The fares are already rock bottom and now they are planning to increase capacity by 150% next summer! I can't see how that works out.

Outside of taking revenge on B6 for tanking BOS-LGA/ATL/MSP fares, I can't see any other reason for DL to stick around on this route.

Brickell305 wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
FLL Might be ripe for a Legacy/Network carrier in the event of a UA Merger. Take out places like SWF, SYR, ALB, SLC, PHX and replace it with regional flying to SE markets that have minimal So Fla service like SAV, TLH, GSP, AVL, CHS, ECP, BHM while keeping it as a Caribbean and Central America gateway. AA and DL have a solid presence at FLL in spite f of the LCC's because the demand is there. B6 + UA could have a serious play for the business market there which is likely much larger than people give it credit for.

There is definitely business traffic there. The issue is that much of the business traffic across So. Fla is international and it’s hard to match the frequency/scope of what AA offers both internationally and domestically. This is exacerbated by the fact that the international business traffic generally prefers MIA to FLL. An FLL based carrier would primarily be competing with AA for domestic business traffic while ceding the lion’s share of the international business traffic to AA. Very difficult to do well in that type of market if you’re a legacy.


That maybe the case, but B6 been poaching premium passengers from AA due to mint. And flights to places like GRU/GIG/EZE will be possible once they have a321LR (or XLR).

AA has publicly said MIA is underperforming. And we know FLL is now B6's most profitable station (at least in winter time). That would indicate they are gaining on AA in yield at So. Fla.
nine4nine wrote:
Perhaps some new Mint transcons adds? JetBlue’s Facebook post a few days ago for destination Burbank had an interesting comment in which someone asked if Mint is available at BUR in which jetBlue replied “Not at the moment, Michelle. But stay tuned! It can happen. ;)

Maybe mini-mint with A220? I think that's more likely.
 
evank516
Posts: 1944
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:57 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Silver airways/seaborne is picking up dAb and stx slack and codeshare with B6


DAB isn't bookable with the Silver flight though. Just United.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 582
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:29 pm

tphuang wrote:
I just realized with gov't shutdown, the fare total might not be available until that's over. bummer.

VS4ever wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
SJU - Trim capacity to JFK/FLL/MCO/BOS further, given continued weakness in the PR market.


While i completely understand why you would say that and it has complete logic, i hope to goodness they don't cut back SJU-BOS further, as my company has an office there and it's already pretty rough to get out and back, would I be surprised if they did? nope... i just hope they don't.

JFK and MCO are not doing great due to the PR weakness. BOS-SJU is quite profitable as a monopoly. I think they are trying to run DL off JFK-SJU/STI/SDQ. A lot of capacity next summer out of JFK. We will see. DL seems to be committed to battling B6 on certain routes even when they are bleeding money.

MIflyer12 wrote:
Mint is a good product but B6 will need to launch with decent frequency to get business travelers. AA/BA shows 12x JFK-LHR tomorrow; DL/VS is 8x. UA is 5x EWR-LHR. At BOS, AA/BA is 3x; DL/VS is 2x.

I don't know if B6 has the balls or free cash flow to start JFK-LHR at 4x daily.

4x on JFK-LHR seems to be what they requested for based on one of the links i saw on BOS threads. But I don't see them getting the 7 slots they are asking for. Realistically, they will probably start off at twice a day on both routes imo. Which given B6's leisure profile in NYC, they should do okay in. There are always people willing to pay more to fly B6 out of NYC. They do really well to CLT/ATL/DEN with just 2 flights a day.

Bobloblaw wrote:
That is certainly an issue for them.

But the real problem is this. JetBlue is an LCC that has stimulated markets with low fares. United can’t make money at B6 fares and when they try to raise fares, traffic would shrink. Possibly dramatically. Yes NYC could be a regulatory problem, UA would lose badly to DL in BOS and NK plus WN would slaughter UA in price sensitive FLL. But the problem is B6 network isn’t profitable at legacy costs. Period. There is no revenue premium United could drive in most ofB6’s network by being a global carrier. The revenue synergy doesn’t exist to make up for the higher costs.

yep, agreed 100% here. I can see how UA could make B6 network out of JFK work. Why I always said WN made the most sense.

pitbosflyer wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
So “top grossing” equates to $58-59 fares being offered by DL and B6 on a route that is going to be 10x daily on CRJ9s and E190s in the Spring and averaged loads in the 70s this past summer?

Sorry, but BOS-PIT is no longer a high-yielding route for JetBlue like it was in 2016.


Yeah B6 triumphantly announced how they were printing money on that route....and DL said "Oh really?? you don't say??". Now its full on price war with both dumping more capacity at it.

What DL is doing on BOS-PIT is unsustainable. They are getting less than half of the yield that they get on LGA-PIT. The fares are already rock bottom and now they are planning to increase capacity by 150% next summer! I can't see how that works out.

Outside of taking revenge on B6 for tanking BOS-LGA/ATL/MSP fares, I can't see any other reason for DL to stick around on this route.

Brickell305 wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
FLL Might be ripe for a Legacy/Network carrier in the event of a UA Merger. Take out places like SWF, SYR, ALB, SLC, PHX and replace it with regional flying to SE markets that have minimal So Fla service like SAV, TLH, GSP, AVL, CHS, ECP, BHM while keeping it as a Caribbean and Central America gateway. AA and DL have a solid presence at FLL in spite f of the LCC's because the demand is there. B6 + UA could have a serious play for the business market there which is likely much larger than people give it credit for.

There is definitely business traffic there. The issue is that much of the business traffic across So. Fla is international and it’s hard to match the frequency/scope of what AA offers both internationally and domestically. This is exacerbated by the fact that the international business traffic generally prefers MIA to FLL. An FLL based carrier would primarily be competing with AA for domestic business traffic while ceding the lion’s share of the international business traffic to AA. Very difficult to do well in that type of market if you’re a legacy.


That maybe the case, but B6 been poaching premium passengers from AA due to mint. And flights to places like GRU/GIG/EZE will be possible once they have a321LR (or XLR).

AA has publicly said MIA is underperforming. And we know FLL is now B6's most profitable station (at least in winter time). That would indicate they are gaining on AA in yield at So. Fla.
nine4nine wrote:
Perhaps some new Mint transcons adds? JetBlue’s Facebook post a few days ago for destination Burbank had an interesting comment in which someone asked if Mint is available at BUR in which jetBlue replied “Not at the moment, Michelle. But stay tuned! It can happen. ;)

Maybe mini-mint with A220? I think that's more likely.

Re So. Fla, while B6 has poached some business traffic from AA, again it is primarily domestic and to a handful of destinations. B6's hub at FLL isn't comparable to what AA has at MIA. AA @ MIA is a SIGNIFICANTLY larger hub in terms of scale, capacity, destinations, etc. In almost any metric you can use, AA @ MIA eclipses B6 @ FLL. So while MIA might be currently under-performing for AA, that is primarily due to weaknesses in some of their most important markets from Miami (Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, etc.) and less to do with B6 taking some of AA's domestic traffic.
 
Jonathanxxxx
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:48 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:01 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I just realized with gov't shutdown, the fare total might not be available until that's over. bummer.

VS4ever wrote:

While i completely understand why you would say that and it has complete logic, i hope to goodness they don't cut back SJU-BOS further, as my company has an office there and it's already pretty rough to get out and back, would I be surprised if they did? nope... i just hope they don't.

JFK and MCO are not doing great due to the PR weakness. BOS-SJU is quite profitable as a monopoly. I think they are trying to run DL off JFK-SJU/STI/SDQ. A lot of capacity next summer out of JFK. We will see. DL seems to be committed to battling B6 on certain routes even when they are bleeding money.

MIflyer12 wrote:
Mint is a good product but B6 will need to launch with decent frequency to get business travelers. AA/BA shows 12x JFK-LHR tomorrow; DL/VS is 8x. UA is 5x EWR-LHR. At BOS, AA/BA is 3x; DL/VS is 2x.

I don't know if B6 has the balls or free cash flow to start JFK-LHR at 4x daily.

4x on JFK-LHR seems to be what they requested for based on one of the links i saw on BOS threads. But I don't see them getting the 7 slots they are asking for. Realistically, they will probably start off at twice a day on both routes imo. Which given B6's leisure profile in NYC, they should do okay in. There are always people willing to pay more to fly B6 out of NYC. They do really well to CLT/ATL/DEN with just 2 flights a day.

Bobloblaw wrote:
That is certainly an issue for them.

But the real problem is this. JetBlue is an LCC that has stimulated markets with low fares. United can’t make money at B6 fares and when they try to raise fares, traffic would shrink. Possibly dramatically. Yes NYC could be a regulatory problem, UA would lose badly to DL in BOS and NK plus WN would slaughter UA in price sensitive FLL. But the problem is B6 network isn’t profitable at legacy costs. Period. There is no revenue premium United could drive in most ofB6’s network by being a global carrier. The revenue synergy doesn’t exist to make up for the higher costs.

yep, agreed 100% here. I can see how UA could make B6 network out of JFK work. Why I always said WN made the most sense.

pitbosflyer wrote:

Yeah B6 triumphantly announced how they were printing money on that route....and DL said "Oh really?? you don't say??". Now its full on price war with both dumping more capacity at it.

What DL is doing on BOS-PIT is unsustainable. They are getting less than half of the yield that they get on LGA-PIT. The fares are already rock bottom and now they are planning to increase capacity by 150% next summer! I can't see how that works out.

Outside of taking revenge on B6 for tanking BOS-LGA/ATL/MSP fares, I can't see any other reason for DL to stick around on this route.

Brickell305 wrote:
There is definitely business traffic there. The issue is that much of the business traffic across So. Fla is international and it’s hard to match the frequency/scope of what AA offers both internationally and domestically. This is exacerbated by the fact that the international business traffic generally prefers MIA to FLL. An FLL based carrier would primarily be competing with AA for domestic business traffic while ceding the lion’s share of the international business traffic to AA. Very difficult to do well in that type of market if you’re a legacy.


That maybe the case, but B6 been poaching premium passengers from AA due to mint. And flights to places like GRU/GIG/EZE will be possible once they have a321LR (or XLR).

AA has publicly said MIA is underperforming. And we know FLL is now B6's most profitable station (at least in winter time). That would indicate they are gaining on AA in yield at So. Fla.
nine4nine wrote:
Perhaps some new Mint transcons adds? JetBlue’s Facebook post a few days ago for destination Burbank had an interesting comment in which someone asked if Mint is available at BUR in which jetBlue replied “Not at the moment, Michelle. But stay tuned! It can happen. ;)

Maybe mini-mint with A220? I think that's more likely.

Re So. Fla, while B6 has poached some business traffic from AA, again it is primarily domestic and to a handful of destinations. B6's hub at FLL isn't comparable to what AA has at MIA. AA @ MIA is a SIGNIFICANTLY larger hub in terms of scale, capacity, destinations, etc. In almost any metric you can use, AA @ MIA eclipses B6 @ FLL. So while MIA might be currently under-performing for AA, that is primarily due to weaknesses in some of their most important markets from Miami (Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, etc.) and less to do with B6 taking some of AA's domestic traffic.


Of course AA is bigger at MIA. AA uses MIA to funnel thousands of connections North-South, and AA will always be the favorite for customers heading straight into Brickell, Downtown and the South. You are right that B6’s FLL hub and AA’s MIA hub are not comparable because of the sheer amount of people AA moves through MIA.

However, I disagree that MIA’s recent underwhelming performance for AA has little to do with B6 at FLL (and to a certain extent, WN). Both carriers have really become dominant in Broward County, and their destinations are very much catered to local O&D. FLL has become a a very viable alternative for some of SoFlo’s biggest international markets such as BOG, PTY, CUN, and HAV. Other high yielding domestic markets that AA used to have a lock on such as SoFlo-LAX/SFO/LAS are now served with more nonstops and mint from FLL, so it’s no surprise that these trunk routes aren’t printing money the way they used to for AA.

Flyers who live in between MIA and FLL in relatively affluent areas such as Sunny Isles, Aventura, Pembroke Pines etc. have traditionally driven to MIA for nonstops to the West Coast and South America (and paid a premium for it too). FLL’s recent growth has cut into that traffic.

Because of the critical mass of the AA hub, MIA will always be able to support the more obscure and exotic destinations that rely on a mix of local traffic and connections from across the country. B6 can’t replicate those traffic flows until they really build out FLL (if they choose to do so).
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