User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9358
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:15 pm

VS4ever wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
nine4nine wrote:


Can you divulge any of this?


Yeah, this thread is a little strange. Is there intended to be a public press release for these allegedly large cuts or are these cuts just going be quietly loaded into their schedule without any notice?


I think it looks odd because someone posted what appeared to be an internal document showing some specific cuts, which was removed as it was not ready for release. I suspect they will have to announce it because of a couple of specific cuts, they just aren’t ready to officially yet, but their employees are aware.

So, if an airline doesn't want something known they can get it deleted from A.net? What if it is something like "inventory no longer for sale"? Where is the line of what is public info?
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:19 pm

Interesting. If they did release this to everyone within the company and still a couple days later haven't passed it to the public that is a bit strange.
 
Bluewho
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:00 am

There was a memo, maybe we just do as they ask.
 
Bluewho
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:00 am

There was a memo, maybe we just do as they ask.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:34 am

enilria wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:

Yeah, this thread is a little strange. Is there intended to be a public press release for these allegedly large cuts or are these cuts just going be quietly loaded into their schedule without any notice?


I think it looks odd because someone posted what appeared to be an internal document showing some specific cuts, which was removed as it was not ready for release. I suspect they will have to announce it because of a couple of specific cuts, they just aren’t ready to officially yet, but their employees are aware.

So, if an airline doesn't want something known they can get it deleted from A.net? What if it is something like "inventory no longer for sale"? Where is the line of what is public info?


i happen to agree with you, all I know, is it was posted at one point with all the details, another a.net member called out the person who posted it telling them they shouldn't and the next time I logged on it was gone. You would have to ask the mods what actually transpired as only they would know. All I know is, I saw it, it's no longer here and I don't believe I should be regurgitating it as it hasn't been officially released by B6 or any other news outlet for that matter. Right or Wrong, that's just my stance on this one.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 3925
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:45 am

jfklganyc wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
A good round up of B6 currently:

Relevant in BOS but under attack by DL in a medium-sized market



Are you saying BOS is a medium-sized market? In domestic O&D it's in the Top 10 and bigger than SEA, EWR or DFW (if a bit behind LAS/DEN/ATL). It's also a good market for range-limited narrowbodies to Europe. DL and AA are a good bit behind at BOS (unlike in NYC where B6 is well behind UA and DL but ahead of AA for #3).



Boston absolutely is a medium sized city and a medium sized market.

The US has 3 world cities: NY LA and CHI. Chicago is already in a lower tier.

Beyond that, you are in a lower category.

Cities like ATL and DFW bat above their city size in air travel because their respective locations lend themselves to connections. BOS doesnt have that luxury.

As for EWR, it is the largest air market in the US...who are you kidding when you separate that from NYC?

This is not to diminish BOS...it is just the reality.

DL is dumping a lot of capacity in a medium sized market and they are sticking it to B6 as they have the resources to outlast them.


Terrible take, have you heard of San Francisco or Washington DC? Those are most definitely world cities, Washington is home to the IMF and World Bank, and home to the capital of one of the most important countries in the world. Not to mention that the Washington CSA will soon surpass Chicago. IAD and SFO both have extensive international networks given how important they are on the world stage.

And Chicago being on a lower tier than LA, c'mon now......

Image

How do you define mid-sized, if you are comparing it to London or Tokyo or NYC, of course BOS is going to appear mid-sized. But for the US it is a large market.

Image
Delta Diamond Medallion and AAdvantage Gold for 2019
 
tphuang
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:49 am

jsteeves3 wrote:
Does anyone have insight on how the JFK-HYA service does as well as MYV and ACK? Loads have been around 50% for the June month historically from HYA. Hope they don't cut it...


the margin on HYA is about as good as ACK, although obviously the capacity is a lot higher in the latter. JFK-MYV on the other hand has the highest margin in the system.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 1977
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:02 am

CLT-JFK is cut in favor of additional CLT-BOS frequencies.

Edit: There could be more internal information that I just don't know about/I don't have all the facts, but what's with all the gripe about Joanna? I think its super cool that we finally have a woman basically in charge of the day-to-day operation of a major US airline, and she seems to love the industry (there is a picture of her in her office with all these model airplanes and a big British Airways NYC advertisement.).
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
trueblew
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:26 am

USAirALB wrote:
CLT-JFK is cut in favor of additional CLT-BOS frequencies.

Edit: There could be more internal information that I just don't know about/I don't have all the facts, but what's with all the gripe about Joanna? I think its super cool that we finally have a woman basically in charge of the day-to-day operation of a major US airline, and she seems to love the industry (there is a picture of her in her office with all these model airplanes and a big British Airways NYC advertisement.).


You're entitled to your opinion, but it's pretty clear you don't have to work for her.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 1977
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:01 am

trueblew wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
CLT-JFK is cut in favor of additional CLT-BOS frequencies.

Edit: There could be more internal information that I just don't know about/I don't have all the facts, but what's with all the gripe about Joanna? I think its super cool that we finally have a woman basically in charge of the day-to-day operation of a major US airline, and she seems to love the industry (there is a picture of her in her office with all these model airplanes and a big British Airways NYC advertisement.).


You're entitled to your opinion, but it's pretty clear you don't have to work for her.

.........Which is why I specifically said "There could be more internal information that I just don't know about/I don't have all the facts"
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
Bluewho
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:46 am

USAirALB wrote:
CLT-JFK is cut in favor of additional CLT-BOS frequencies.

Edit: There could be more internal information that I just don't know about/I don't have all the facts, but what's with all the gripe about Joanna? I think its super cool that we finally have a woman basically in charge of the day-to-day operation of a major US airline, and she seems to love the industry (there is a picture of her in her office with all these model airplanes and a big British Airways NYC advertisement.).



You think it’s cool? That’s not what you want in a COO “cool”. I don’t care if they are purple and half man and groundhog they need to be competent and inspire confidence. There isn’t much of that from her. What has gone right since she took over?

Also have you ever heard of June Morris? Gigs isn’t the first.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3265
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:35 am

USAirALB wrote:
CLT-JFK is cut in favor of additional CLT-BOS frequencies.

Edit: There could be more internal information that I just don't know about/I don't have all the facts, but what's with all the gripe about Joanna? I think its super cool that we finally have a woman basically in charge of the day-to-day operation of a major US airline, and she seems to love the industry (there is a picture of her in her office with all these model airplanes and a big British Airways NYC advertisement.).


Interesting. I thought CLT-JFK was profitable, although I could see how it would be cut if there will be a concerted effort to use JFK slots for higher demand/revenue VFR/leisure/premium TCON destinations (including Europe once the LR’s arrive). Plus there are only so many airframes to go around, and focusing on defending BOS further seems smart.

Along those lines, should we also expect to see cuts on JFK-ORD/RDU in favor of more BOS?
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5366
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:21 am

I would imagine JFK RDU ORD SAV CHS and ATL are all on the chopping block going forward.

Just following their trends.

JFK was never an airport for in perimeter flying that goes to LGA.

B6 gave it a years long shot...it appears they are throwing in the towel for that kind of JFK flying.

The Upstate stuff will still be served.

They are in the flight of their life in Boston, and rightly or wrongly, they feel they need to fight it out.

All resources to Boston. Plain and simple
 
tphuang
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:09 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
CLT-JFK is cut in favor of additional CLT-BOS frequencies.

Edit: There could be more internal information that I just don't know about/I don't have all the facts, but what's with all the gripe about Joanna? I think its super cool that we finally have a woman basically in charge of the day-to-day operation of a major US airline, and she seems to love the industry (there is a picture of her in her office with all these model airplanes and a big British Airways NYC advertisement.).


Interesting. I thought CLT-JFK was profitable, although I could see how it would be cut if there will be a concerted effort to use JFK slots for higher demand/revenue VFR/leisure/premium TCON destinations (including Europe once the LR’s arrive). Plus there are only so many airframes to go around, and focusing on defending BOS further seems smart.

Along those lines, should we also expect to see cuts on JFK-ORD/RDU in favor of more BOS?


JFK-CLT was profitable. They are still getting higher yield than DL's RJ operation on LGA-CLT. It is below average for a JFK route, but definitely solidly profitable. This is one cut that doesn't make sense to me. Do they really think cutting JFK will help BOS-CLT? Were they splitting feeds between BOS/JFK into CLT? I don't think many people are going to be loyal enough with Jetblue to go LGA/JFK-BOS-CLT. JFK-IAD was a different story, it was consistently the worst performing route out of JFK.

I don't see them cutting ORD (about same margin as CLT but far more important) or ATL/RDU/CHS (all above system average in margins) out of JFK, but SAV could get cut. It's one route that doesn't have great relevance and is losing money.

They are basically shifting all the short range E90 flying out of JFK and using those slots for A321 VFR flights. Good for profitability, not good for their nyc network.

That's the last impact of DL's BOS buildup. JFK is now far and away B6's cash cow. And they are not making decisions based on what will build up their position in NYC, but on short term margin gains.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5366
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:13 pm

“That's the last impact of DL's BOS buildup. JFK is now far and away B6's cash cow. And they are not making decisions based on what will build up their position in NYC, but on short term margin gains.”

That is the most intelligent analysis in this 12 page thread.

Congratulations sir...you get it!
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1251
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:31 pm

tphuang wrote:
And they are not making decisions based on what will build up their position in NYC, but on short term margin gains.


Translation: Management hopes to get their big bonus as soon as possible before leaving the Titanic to sink?
 
AA94
Posts: 716
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:37 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
I would imagine JFK RDU ORD SAV CHS and ATL are all on the chopping block going forward.

Just following their trends.

JFK was never an airport for in perimeter flying that goes to LGA.

B6 gave it a years long shot...it appears they are throwing in the towel for that kind of JFK flying.

The Upstate stuff will still be served.

They are in the flight of their life in Boston, and rightly or wrongly, they feel they need to fight it out.

All resources to Boston. Plain and simple


You also posted (in the now deleted thread) that this latest round of cuts was the death knell for "Big Blue," as if two JFK-CLT frequencies were the keys to the company's success. You'll pardon the rest of us if we ignore your pointless ranting.
 
Bluewho
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:50 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
And they are not making decisions based on what will build up their position in NYC, but on short term margin gains.


Translation: Management hopes to get their big bonus as soon as possible before leaving the Titanic to sink?



They must meet their EPS guidance.
If “feels” like if they don’t it’s on to plan b
 
Bluewho
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:54 pm

AA94 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
I would imagine JFK RDU ORD SAV CHS and ATL are all on the chopping block going forward.

Just following their trends.

JFK was never an airport for in perimeter flying that goes to LGA.

B6 gave it a years long shot...it appears they are throwing in the towel for that kind of JFK flying.

The Upstate stuff will still be served.

They are in the flight of their life in Boston, and rightly or wrongly, they feel they need to fight it out.

All resources to Boston. Plain and simple


You also posted (in the now deleted thread) that this latest round of cuts was the death knell for "Big Blue," as if two JFK-CLT frequencies were the keys to the company's success. You'll pardon the rest of us if we ignore your pointless ranting.



I think it’s far from that. It’s a reaction to the current situation. All airlines do it. I don’t see it as a huge deal. But again Wall St was promised an EPS and it seemed the company is doing everything they can to get it. If they fail I think that’s when a merger or something along those lines happens.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3265
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
They are basically shifting all the short range E90 flying out of JFK and using those slots for A321 VFR flights. Good for profitability, not good for their nyc network.

That's the last impact of DL's BOS buildup. JFK is now far and away B6's cash cow. And they are not making decisions based on what will build up their position in NYC, but on short term margin gains.


Let's face it - JetBlue never has, and never will, be able to be everything to everyone in New York City. They just don't have the slot portfolio to comprehensively cover all the markets that New Yorkers go to (neither at JFK nor at LGA). Their strengths are Florida, the Islands, and transcon (premium and non-premium). With the LR and now XLR they will hopefully be able to add Europe and South America to their strengths (which seems to be what they are betting on).

Somehow B6 has been able to capture a loyal base of New Yorkers without getting them (us) to places like PIT, DFW, CLE, DTW, and BNA. If what is insinuated on this thread - that they will eliminate markets like ATL, CLT, RDU, SAV, and CHS - then they may be willing to bet that such markets just don't matter enough to their New York base. It's certainly a risky bet if this is what they plan, and I guess it will also be an indicator of the clear fissures between Marty and Joanna.

Interesting times ahead, that's for sure!
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5366
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:54 pm

AA94 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
I would imagine JFK RDU ORD SAV CHS and ATL are all on the chopping block going forward.

Just following their trends.

JFK was never an airport for in perimeter flying that goes to LGA.

B6 gave it a years long shot...it appears they are throwing in the towel for that kind of JFK flying.

The Upstate stuff will still be served.

They are in the flight of their life in Boston, and rightly or wrongly, they feel they need to fight it out.

All resources to Boston. Plain and simple


You also posted (in the now deleted thread) that this latest round of cuts was the death knell for "Big Blue," as if two JFK-CLT frequencies were the keys to the company's success. You'll pardon the rest of us if we ignore your pointless ranting.



Death Knell?

I said that AA94?

Be very sure on the answer you post here!
 
tphuang
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:14 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Let's face it - JetBlue never has, and never will, be able to be everything to everyone in New York City. They just don't have the slot portfolio to comprehensively cover all the markets that New Yorkers go to (neither at JFK nor at LGA). Their strengths are Florida, the Islands, and transcon (premium and non-premium). With the LR and now XLR they will hopefully be able to add Europe and South America to their strengths (which seems to be what they are betting on).

Somehow B6 has been able to capture a loyal base of New Yorkers without getting them (us) to places like PIT, DFW, CLE, DTW, and BNA. If what is insinuated on this thread - that they will eliminate markets like ATL, CLT, RDU, SAV, and CHS - then they may be willing to bet that such markets just don't matter enough to their New York base. It's certainly a risky bet if this is what they plan, and I guess it will also be an indicator of the clear fissures between Marty and Joanna.

Interesting times ahead, that's for sure!


I think BNA is getting added in the near future. I don't think it's the end of the world, but I would've liked to see them put A320s on JFK-CLT rather than just cut it completely. While B6 doesn't have DL or even AA's slot portfolio, I think there is potential for them to be more relevant in NYC business community than they are now given that TATL flying will start in a couple of years and they will operate a larger facility at JFK than even DL by 2023. I'd like to see them go harder after business community given AA's cutbacks. If BOS was not under DL pressure, I bet we would see them operate quite differently in NYC right now. As is, NYC needs to generate a larger margin than ever before.

Anyhow, given the A321XLR additions. I took a look at gcmap again. Given that the advertised range is 4700 nm. I did 500 nm reduction for South America and 1000 nm reduction for TATL.

Out of BOS, basically anywhere they'd want to fly is within range.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=BOS-LHR%3B ... =wls&DU=mi

Out of JFK, they can reach most of the places. FCO is right at the edge, but is probably okay as a summer seasonal flight.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=JFK-FCO%3B ... =wls&DU=mi

Out of JFK, if I focus on South America and use 4200 nm. They can easily reach LIM and BSB and even GIG/GRU are within range.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=JFK-LIM%3B ... =wls&DU=mi

Out of FLL, pretty much they can reach anywhere now
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=FLL-SCL%3B ... =wls&DU=mi


Now given that they have 26 deliveries in 2023/2024 of A321NEO and half of that will be A321XLR. They would need to place further orders for A321NEO if they wanted to plan beyond that.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1251
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:40 pm

I have a couple of question about Costa Rica service. Perhaps someone can enlighten me:

1) Why does B6 serve LIR non-stop from BOS and JFK, but not SJO?
2) Why is Mint service popular on LIR service? Is there a rich expat or VFR locale in LIR?
 
Brickell305
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:44 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I have a couple of question about Costa Rica service. Perhaps someone can enlighten me:

1) Why does B6 serve LIR non-stop from BOS and JFK, but not SJO?
2) Why is Mint service popular on LIR service? Is there a rich expat or VFR locale in LIR?

LIR is a more touristy market similar to MBJ or PUJ whereas SJO is more VFR/business similar to KIN or SDQ (although it is probably more touristy than either of those two). The VFR/business does much better out of So. Fla than NYC or Boston. B6 can however fill flights with tourists to LIR from BOS/JFK.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:57 pm

What are the chances JetBlue adds European routes out of FLL? MAD, LIS, BCN, AMS, BRU, LHR, CDG, DUB, SNN are all within range of FLL.
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3032
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:57 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I have a couple of question about Costa Rica service. Perhaps someone can enlighten me:

1) Why does B6 serve LIR non-stop from BOS and JFK, but not SJO?
2) Why is Mint service popular on LIR service? Is there a rich expat or VFR locale in LIR?

LIR is a more touristy market similar to MBJ or PUJ whereas SJO is more VFR/business similar to KIN or SDQ (although it is probably more touristy than either of those two). The VFR/business does much better out of So. Fla than NYC or Boston. B6 can however fill flights with tourists to LIR from BOS/JFK.


I still think they could do JFK/BOS-SJO at least weekly too.

Many leisure tours start in SJO and stop in LIR or vice-versa. Manuel Antonio National Park and Jaco Beach are much closer to SJO.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
tphuang
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:31 am

https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/H ... 047873.php
So JetBlue is moving into SFO terminal 1.

this part confused me.
Southwest Airlines and JetBlue will move into the new space in July with six gates.
It's hard to imagine WN and B6 fitting their operation into 6 gates. And it's hard to imagine B6 getting 6 gates by itself. So would be interesting to see how many gates they get (their current operation is 6x JFK, 5x BOS, 2x FLL, 2x LGB).

In another thread, it mentioned that B6 is about to launch JFK-PTP seasonally from Nov to April. Now, I'm all for making more use of JFK slots in winter time, but I'm hoping this is not all they add as part of their network changes this week. Is it going to come out tomorrow?

B752OS wrote:
What are the chances JetBlue adds European routes out of FLL? MAD, LIS, BCN, AMS, BRU, LHR, CDG, DUB, SNN are all within range of FLL.


I see at most London and MAD. I don't see how any other places would have sufficient demand. And most of the connection coming into FLL that would make sense vs BOS/JFK would be South America, where I think demand would only be there for London and Madrid. But this would be long after they start building their TATL network out of BOS.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:43 am

tphuang wrote:
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/Harvey-Milk-Terminal-1-first-look-pictures-sf-14047873.php
So JetBlue is moving into SFO terminal 1.

this part confused me.
Southwest Airlines and JetBlue will move into the new space in July with six gates.
It's hard to imagine WN and B6 fitting their operation into 6 gates. And it's hard to imagine B6 getting 6 gates by itself. So would be interesting to see how many gates they get (their current operation is 6x JFK, 5x BOS, 2x FLL, 2x LGB).

In another thread, it mentioned that B6 is about to launch JFK-PTP seasonally from Nov to April. Now, I'm all for making more use of JFK slots in winter time, but I'm hoping this is not all they add as part of their network changes this week. Is it going to come out tomorrow?

B752OS wrote:
What are the chances JetBlue adds European routes out of FLL? MAD, LIS, BCN, AMS, BRU, LHR, CDG, DUB, SNN are all within range of FLL.


I see at most London and MAD. I don't see how any other places would have sufficient demand. And most of the connection coming into FLL that would make sense vs BOS/JFK would be South America, where I think demand would only be there for London and Madrid. But this would be long after they start building their TATL network out of BOS.


The first 12 gates are on the south side of the new T1. I believe the first 6 once you leave the new check point will be JetBlue.
This kinda goes with the latest LGB Rumor that their
Dropping both LGB-OAK,SMF and moving those slots to increase LGB-SFO to 6 a day.
Feeds Better connections to both B6 and Hawaiian.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25654
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:20 am

tphuang wrote:

B752OS wrote:
What are the chances JetBlue adds European routes out of FLL? MAD, LIS, BCN, AMS, BRU, LHR, CDG, DUB, SNN are all within range of FLL.


I see at most London and MAD. I don't see how any other places would have sufficient demand. And most of the connection coming into FLL that would make sense vs BOS/JFK would be South America, where I think demand would only be there for London and Madrid. But this would be long after they start building their TATL network out of BOS.


Miami/Lauderdale is the second largest US-Europe market. The local market is larger from South Florida than Boston from virtually any European city other than Ireland and the Azores, often by a significant amount. Paris, London, Rome, Frankfurt, Zürich, etc. all larger from SoFla. Even Lisbon is larger from Miami. Plus the multitude of markets that support SoFla service and don’t support Boston - Milan, Moscow, Oslo, etc. The issue isn’t demand, rather that a lower density A321 is a less than ideal plane, especially given the tourist nature of many markets. The fares would likely be comparable to BOS/JFK, but at a much longer stage length. Plus the market is insanely competitive, but then again so are NYC and Boston.

I’d be surprised if JetBlue flies FLL-Europe anytime soon, but demand is not why.
a.
 
EK77WNH
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:42 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:33 am

Wasn’t this the week that all sorts of carnage would occur...dropped cities, axed routes?
(Formerly ChrisNH)
 
tphuang
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:09 am

MAH4546 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

B752OS wrote:
What are the chances JetBlue adds European routes out of FLL? MAD, LIS, BCN, AMS, BRU, LHR, CDG, DUB, SNN are all within range of FLL.


I see at most London and MAD. I don't see how any other places would have sufficient demand. And most of the connection coming into FLL that would make sense vs BOS/JFK would be South America, where I think demand would only be there for London and Madrid. But this would be long after they start building their TATL network out of BOS.


Miami/Lauderdale is the second largest US-Europe market. The local market is larger from South Florida than Boston from virtually any European city other than Ireland and the Azores, often by a significant amount. Paris, London, Rome, Frankfurt, Zürich, etc. all larger from SoFla. Even Lisbon is larger from Miami. Plus the multitude of markets that support SoFla service and don’t support Boston - Milan, Moscow, Oslo, etc. The issue isn’t demand, rather that a lower density A321 is a less than ideal plane, especially given the tourist nature of many markets. The fares would likely be comparable to BOS/JFK, but at a much longer stage length. Plus the market is insanely competitive, but then again so are NYC and Boston.

I’d be surprised if JetBlue flies FLL-Europe anytime soon, but demand is not why.


there is O&D and then there is O&D JetBlue can actually capture with A321XLR. If you look at gcmap and apply range of 3800 nm.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=FLL-SCL%3B ... =wls&DU=mi
Only Dublin, London, Lisbon and maybe Madrid is in there. I don't see Dublin having enough O&D and Lisbon is already well served by TAP.
 
trueblew
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:17 am

EK77WNH wrote:
Wasn’t this the week that all sorts of carnage would occur...dropped cities, axed routes?


Tomorrow, I believe.
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1649
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:23 am

tphuang wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
there is O&D and then there is O&D JetBlue can actually capture with A321XLR. If you look at gcmap and apply range of 3800 nm.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=FLL-SCL%3B ... =wls&DU=mi
Only Dublin, London, Lisbon and maybe Madrid is in there. I don't see Dublin having enough O&D and Lisbon is already well served by TAP.


Sorry, did you mean 321LR? As in not XLR? The quoted range for the XLR is 4,500nm. Admittedly that's still-air, but still means a lot more than DUB, LON, LIS, MAD is on the table for B6.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:06 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:


Sorry, did you mean 321LR? As in not XLR? The quoted range for the XLR is 4,500nm. Admittedly that's still-air, but still means a lot more than DUB, LON, LIS, MAD is on the table for B6.


I took 4700 nm and subtracted 900 nm to account for TATL wind and also fuel reserves. Maybe that's a little too conservative, not sure.
 
CaptCoolHand
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:13 am

trueblew wrote:
EK77WNH wrote:
Wasn’t this the week that all sorts of carnage would occur...dropped cities, axed routes?


Tomorrow, I believe.


Wut?

Didn’t we just axe a bunch of routes and cities? More??
 
trueblew
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:33 am

CaptCoolHand wrote:
trueblew wrote:
EK77WNH wrote:
Wasn’t this the week that all sorts of carnage would occur...dropped cities, axed routes?


Tomorrow, I believe.


Wut?

Didn’t we just axe a bunch of routes and cities? More??


The public announcement is scheduled for 27 June if my memory serves.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:30 am

Yes announcement will be today. Internally it was released last week
 
Blueknows
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:29 am

Oct 27th is magic day
 
ScottB
Posts: 6553
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:27 pm

Yep, IAH is in the booking engine starting October 27. But they're still going to be irrelevant in the market with their terrible schedule.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:41 pm

From Q4, looking at IAH/HOU numbers vs comparables like their performance on AUS
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS PerFlight # Flights LF Yield
BOSHOU1609 B6 22130 174.57 174.57 0.00 100.00% 141.8 184 84.79% 148.02
BOSHOU1609 WN 24993 200.80 201.01 199.91 80.19% 156.8 176 90.55% 182.03
BOSIAH 1597 UA 105554 274.87 274.29 300.92 97.81% 171.6 701 87.74% 240.66
JFKHOU 1428 B6 22085 222.67 222.63 300.00 99.95% 141.8 184 84.62% 188.38
LGAHOU 1428 WN 67729 220.70 218.72 241.42 91.26% 150.4 516 87.25% 190.83
LGAIAH 1416 UA 139513 294.73 293.57 454.93 99.28% 139.2 1208 82.95% 243.50
JFKAUS 1521 B6 43413 212.07 212.08 209.02 99.68% 150.3 339 85.21% 180.71
BOSAUS 1698 B6 23438 259.56 258.46 328.70 98.42% 146.9 184 86.69% 224.06
BOSDFW 1562 B6 37758 192.64 192.64 0.00 100.00% 145.0 300 86.82% 167.25

BOS-HOU has been a loss leader for a while. JFK-HOU has always performed much better and even better than they typically do on AUS, which is outside the perimeter rules. I can't see any downside in this move other than cost going up a little bit.

It's hard to imagine that they wouldn't be able to do at least as on BOS-DFW with this move, which itself is a loss leader. It seems to me at least on Northeast to Houston market, IAH is just a higher yielding airport.

If they do move ahead with going 5x on BOS-CLT, they should also go up to 2x on BOS-IAH and 3x on BOS-DFW. I assume these moves are to strengthen their viability in markets that DL is not in yet. It will be kind of a loss if they move to IAH and remain at 1x daily. JFK staying at 1x is fine, since they've shown the ability to do well with that and they will still have the JFK to houston monopoly.

I also see PTP in the dropdown now. Still surprised that's the place they chose to add given the earlier post in this thread that PTP wasn't under consideration!

Long term, seems like BOS to Texas in general are going to be among the first to move to A220. A320 is too many seats to fill and E90 economics are horrendous for this type of long route. But that won't happen until probably 2021.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3265
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:25 pm

ScottB wrote:
Yep, IAH is in the booking engine starting October 27. But they're still going to be irrelevant in the market with their terrible schedule.


It's pretty crazy that B6 can't muster more than 1x (poorly timed) flight between Boston and one of America's largest cities.

tphuang wrote:
From Q4, looking at IAH/HOU numbers vs comparables like their performance on AUS
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare % NS PerFlight # Flights LF Yield
BOSHOU1609 B6 22130 174.57 174.57 0.00 100.00% 141.8 184 84.79% 148.02
BOSHOU1609 WN 24993 200.80 201.01 199.91 80.19% 156.8 176 90.55% 182.03
BOSIAH 1597 UA 105554 274.87 274.29 300.92 97.81% 171.6 701 87.74% 240.66
JFKHOU 1428 B6 22085 222.67 222.63 300.00 99.95% 141.8 184 84.62% 188.38
LGAHOU 1428 WN 67729 220.70 218.72 241.42 91.26% 150.4 516 87.25% 190.83
LGAIAH 1416 UA 139513 294.73 293.57 454.93 99.28% 139.2 1208 82.95% 243.50
JFKAUS 1521 B6 43413 212.07 212.08 209.02 99.68% 150.3 339 85.21% 180.71
BOSAUS 1698 B6 23438 259.56 258.46 328.70 98.42% 146.9 184 86.69% 224.06
BOSDFW 1562 B6 37758 192.64 192.64 0.00 100.00% 145.0 300 86.82% 167.25

BOS-HOU has been a loss leader for a while. JFK-HOU has always performed much better and even better than they typically do on AUS, which is outside the perimeter rules. I can't see any downside in this move other than cost going up a little bit.

It's hard to imagine that they wouldn't be able to do at least as on BOS-DFW with this move, which itself is a loss leader. It seems to me at least on Northeast to Houston market, IAH is just a higher yielding airport.

If they do move ahead with going 5x on BOS-CLT, they should also go up to 2x on BOS-IAH and 3x on BOS-DFW. I assume these moves are to strengthen their viability in markets that DL is not in yet. It will be kind of a loss if they move to IAH and remain at 1x daily. JFK staying at 1x is fine, since they've shown the ability to do well with that and they will still have the JFK to houston monopoly.

I also see PTP in the dropdown now. Still surprised that's the place they chose to add given the earlier post in this thread that PTP wasn't under consideration!

Long term, seems like BOS to Texas in general are going to be among the first to move to A220. A320 is too many seats to fill and E90 economics are horrendous for this type of long route. But that won't happen until probably 2021.


I think B6 should at least run 2x on BOS-IAH and pump BOS-DFW up to 3x. It's pretty mind boggling that they aren't able to do even more, especially since they should be capturing BOS point-of-sale.

B6 is also beginning JFK-SJO (red-eye turn) on 11/1. Seems like AA may have had wind of this, given the timing...
 
tphuang
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:39 pm

here is the press release.
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=62003
I'm surprised there is nothing on JFK-PTP. PTP is loaded on the website, but the route itself does not appear to be.

Also, curious to see the redistributing of the DCA slot, since the word is JAX/BDL are cut (not really a surprise given the performance) and added to BOS/FLL/PBI/RSW. Not sure they need more for BOS given they already now have the best schedule. FLL/PBI/RSW are not surprising given their strength in both side of south florida.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1251
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:41 pm

tphuang wrote:
here is the press release.
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=62003
I'm surprised there is nothing on JFK-PTP. PTP is loaded on the website, but the route itself does not appear to be.

Also, curious to see the redistributing of the DCA slot, since the word is JAX/BDL are cut (not really a surprise given the performance) and added to BOS/FLL/PBI/RSW. Not sure they need more for BOS given they already now have the best schedule. FLL/PBI/RSW are not surprising given their strength in both side of south florida.


PTP is mentioned as a partner destination on the website (it has the little black triangle).
Last edited by Dieuwer on Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6553
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:43 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
Yep, IAH is in the booking engine starting October 27. But they're still going to be irrelevant in the market with their terrible schedule.


It's pretty crazy that B6 can't muster more than 1x (poorly timed) flight between Boston and one of America's largest cities.


What's worse is that the JFK departure is mid-day, so if you wanted to use B6 to travel to Houston, you have to be willing to depart Boston by 10 AM. The 7 AM departure from BOS is unusable for passengers from NYC and there's one reasonably logical connecting market with a scheduled arrival before 0630 -- SYR. Virtually no one would fly things like SFO-BOS-IAH or DEN-BOS-IAH unless the fare were rock-bottom or they were non-revving.

B6 can't get you into BOS before dinnertime and again the flight to BOS is unusable for connections to NYC with its arrival at 2132. Moving service to IAH isn't going to improve performance when the schedule just sucks.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:44 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
here is the press release.
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=62003
I'm surprised there is nothing on JFK-PTP. PTP is loaded on the website, but the route itself does not appear to be.

Also, curious to see the redistributing of the DCA slot, since the word is JAX/BDL are cut (not really a surprise given the performance) and added to BOS/FLL/PBI/RSW. Not sure they need more for BOS given they already now have the best schedule. FLL/PBI/RSW are not surprising given their strength in both side of south florida.


PTP is mentioned as a partner destination on the website (it has the little black triangle).


Well, I guess we will have to wait to see if it gets added then. I'm not a big fan of this choice to begin with.
 
User avatar
DolphinAir747
Posts: 1884
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:45 pm

tphuang wrote:
here is the press release.
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=62003
I'm surprised there is nothing on JFK-PTP. PTP is loaded on the website, but the route itself does not appear to be.

Also, curious to see the redistributing of the DCA slot, since the word is JAX/BDL are cut (not really a surprise given the performance) and added to BOS/FLL/PBI/RSW. Not sure they need more for BOS given they already now have the best schedule. FLL/PBI/RSW are not surprising given their strength in both side of south florida.


Are these the only announcements from B6 today or are there also some more additions/cuts to come?
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1251
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:50 pm

ScottB wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
Yep, IAH is in the booking engine starting October 27. But they're still going to be irrelevant in the market with their terrible schedule.


It's pretty crazy that B6 can't muster more than 1x (poorly timed) flight between Boston and one of America's largest cities.


What's worse is that the JFK departure is mid-day, so if you wanted to use B6 to travel to Houston, you have to be willing to depart Boston by 10 AM. The 7 AM departure from BOS is unusable for passengers from NYC and there's one reasonably logical connecting market with a scheduled arrival before 0630 -- SYR. Virtually no one would fly things like SFO-BOS-IAH or DEN-BOS-IAH unless the fare were rock-bottom or they were non-revving.

B6 can't get you into BOS before dinnertime and again the flight to BOS is unusable for connections to NYC with its arrival at 2132. Moving service to IAH isn't going to improve performance when the schedule just sucks.


Why would anyone from NYC fly to IAH via BOS??? There are already plenty of non-stop options from EWR/LGA to IAH/HOU.
 
EK77WNH
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:42 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:40 pm

DolphinAir747 wrote:
Are these the only announcements from B6 today or are there also some more additions/cuts to come?


Last week at this time, we were told by certain 'in-the-know' folks that a tsunami was going to hit. And, apparently, it's just switching from HOU to IAH :roll:
(Formerly ChrisNH)
 
Brickell305
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:49 pm

EK77WNH wrote:
DolphinAir747 wrote:
Are these the only announcements from B6 today or are there also some more additions/cuts to come?


Last week at this time, we were told by certain 'in-the-know' folks that a tsunami was going to hit. And, apparently, it's just switching from HOU to IAH :roll:

Apparently the upcoming cuts were announced in an internal memo. They weren’t just made up. It could just be that B6 isn’t giving a press release on its cuts. Maybe it will come later.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6560
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:51 pm

EK77WNH wrote:
DolphinAir747 wrote:
Are these the only announcements from B6 today or are there also some more additions/cuts to come?


Last week at this time, we were told by certain 'in-the-know' folks that a tsunami was going to hit. And, apparently, it's just switching from HOU to IAH :roll:


Most in the know people on this site know nothing and usually post rumors as facts. Certain individuals
have some good insight, but many make things up, go by crew rumors or simply want to stir the pot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos