tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:16 pm

UkiAir wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I have no clue which days I should be looking at. I've checked days in Jan/Feb/Mar/April and still see the same 5 flights (all mint) on BOS-SFO. I give up.

Also, interesting that AA is adding LGA-BZN on Saturday. I think given that B6 already has a station there, they should try JFK/BOS-BZN on a seasonal basis. Seems like easy flight to fill in summer time and winter time. A lot of people would want to visit yellowstone in summer time and go there for skiing in winter.


I didn't go that far. The beginning of winter season starting on Oct 27. Picked random days during the first week of November.
B62133 BOS0900 - 1248SFO 321
B62334 1524SFO - 2358BOS 321

okay, it looks like for Q4 before holiday seasons. Interesting that they are making these adjustments relatively late in the schedule and then reverting to old schedule once we get to January. They really need to start adding mint aircraft again.

Is ATL-MCO even worth serving for B6?

hard to say. A big question for me is what their plan is for MCO. They made a lot of noise about more gates needed upon the open south terminal at MCO, but they've done no expansion there for several years and their pricing power has just been constantly sliding. Given their expansion of Orlando campus, I would imagine the expansion will happen at some point. I just don't see that being in 2021 when they've had all this delivery delays with A321NEO and then have the start of Europe expansion. Even FLL buildup has halted to concentrate on BOS.
 
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SANFan
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:50 am

Interesting development in the BOS-SAN market that Blue seemed to be on the verge of completely running away with.

In May 2020, AS will double up on their service in the market, adding a red-eye SAN-BOS with a turn at Logan and a morning return to the w/c. This I believe is the first time AAG has expanded their frequency in the market. Whether this is intended as a permanent addition or just seasonal, I don't know for sure but my guess is they will leave the 2nd trip year-round, just to keep up with the Jones's.

That means AS will offer a morning SAN departure to BOS (~9:45am) -- the peak travel time preferred by corporate travelers -- along with the new 9:50pm departure. The returns are currently scheduled to depart Logan at 8am and 7:30pm starting May 21. The red-eye r/t is showing an A320 and the other r/t is a 739.

Finally it appears AAG has decided to fight for the market; the upside for AS is the morning departure from SAN, the downside is no mint. It will be interesting to see if this move generates any responses from the Blue Route Planners.

bb
 
Blueknows
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:36 am

Just released today. They are going to cut SJU FLIGHTS...and don’t be surprised if more city closures and flights cuts

When revenue comes up short, we must take action. We’re committed to Puerto Rico for the long-term, but we may need to adjust capacity for now to better match demand. We will be ready to add it back when the business rebounds. In the meantime, we have a diverse network with options to temporarily redeploy aircraft to other better-performing routes, like transcontinental.

In times like these, we have to look at things we can control to keep our overall profitability. It’s more important than ever that we keep our costs low. I know it’s never fun to talk about cost, but having lower costs is our secret weapon in competing with airlines who are stepping up against us in our focus cities.

We’re also stepping up our marketing with a new ad campaign – Just Alright Doesn’t Fly Here – to stimulate demand for travel.

Over the next days and weeks, we may see our share price fluctuate, depending upon how this update is received. We are taking the right steps in providing this update to Owners today, and also taking the necessary steps to address the challenges we’re facing. We have incredible Crewmembers and a brand that Customers love, and I feel confident we will weather these challenges.
 
dca1
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:47 am

Blueknows wrote:
Just released today. They are going to cut SJU FLIGHTS...and don’t be surprised if more city closures and flights cuts

When revenue comes up short, we must take action. We’re committed to Puerto Rico for the long-term, but we may need to adjust capacity for now to better match demand. We will be ready to add it back when the business rebounds. In the meantime, we have a diverse network with options to temporarily redeploy aircraft to other better-performing routes, like transcontinental.

In times like these, we have to look at things we can control to keep our overall profitability. It’s more important than ever that we keep our costs low. I know it’s never fun to talk about cost, but having lower costs is our secret weapon in competing with airlines who are stepping up against us in our focus cities.

We’re also stepping up our marketing with a new ad campaign – Just Alright Doesn’t Fly Here – to stimulate demand for travel.

Over the next days and weeks, we may see our share price fluctuate, depending upon how this update is received. We are taking the right steps in providing this update to Owners today, and also taking the necessary steps to address the challenges we’re facing. We have incredible Crewmembers and a brand that Customers love, and I feel confident we will weather these challenges.


JetBlue always seems to be in a “crisis mode.” They always blame things like political unrest or hurricanes to their abysmal financial performance in a time when other carriers are thriving with record profits.

They are an airline and there WILL BE these types of exposure. So this leads me to my next question, are they long term viable? It seems that everything must go perfectly and they depend on paying their employees less than market rates just to get by. Something just give.
 
N757ST
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:06 pm

dca1 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Just released today. They are going to cut SJU FLIGHTS...and don’t be surprised if more city closures and flights cuts

When revenue comes up short, we must take action. We’re committed to Puerto Rico for the long-term, but we may need to adjust capacity for now to better match demand. We will be ready to add it back when the business rebounds. In the meantime, we have a diverse network with options to temporarily redeploy aircraft to other better-performing routes, like transcontinental.

In times like these, we have to look at things we can control to keep our overall profitability. It’s more important than ever that we keep our costs low. I know it’s never fun to talk about cost, but having lower costs is our secret weapon in competing with airlines who are stepping up against us in our focus cities.

We’re also stepping up our marketing with a new ad campaign – Just Alright Doesn’t Fly Here – to stimulate demand for travel.

Over the next days and weeks, we may see our share price fluctuate, depending upon how this update is received. We are taking the right steps in providing this update to Owners today, and also taking the necessary steps to address the challenges we’re facing. We have incredible Crewmembers and a brand that Customers love, and I feel confident we will weather these challenges.


JetBlue always seems to be in a “crisis mode.” They always blame things like political unrest or hurricanes to their abysmal financial performance in a time when other carriers are thriving with record profits.

They are an airline and there WILL BE these types of exposure. So this leads me to my next question, are they long term viable? It seems that everything must go perfectly and they depend on paying their employees less than market rates just to get by. Something just give.


JetBlue’s financial performance isn’t abysmal, it’s industry average but they have committed to above industry average. While it’s “only” industry average, it brings in hundreds of millions of dollars a year and is committed to its investors a profit of 750+ million for 2020. Whether they can achieve that is up for debate. Whether they are financially stable is not, JetBlue is a very financially stable company with very little debt,
 
jetbluefan1
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:15 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Just released today. They are going to cut SJU FLIGHTS...and don’t be surprised if more city closures and flights cuts

When revenue comes up short, we must take action. We’re committed to Puerto Rico for the long-term, but we may need to adjust capacity for now to better match demand. We will be ready to add it back when the business rebounds. In the meantime, we have a diverse network with options to temporarily redeploy aircraft to other better-performing routes, like transcontinental.

In times like these, we have to look at things we can control to keep our overall profitability. It’s more important than ever that we keep our costs low. I know it’s never fun to talk about cost, but having lower costs is our secret weapon in competing with airlines who are stepping up against us in our focus cities.

We’re also stepping up our marketing with a new ad campaign – Just Alright Doesn’t Fly Here – to stimulate demand for travel.

Over the next days and weeks, we may see our share price fluctuate, depending upon how this update is received. We are taking the right steps in providing this update to Owners today, and also taking the necessary steps to address the challenges we’re facing. We have incredible Crewmembers and a brand that Customers love, and I feel confident we will weather these challenges.


Seems like you were onto something here. Based on this morning's 8-K filing (https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/ed ... uidanc.htm) they are reducing RASM guidance by a significant margin.

"Revenue per available seat mile (RASM) growth for the third quarter 2019 is expected to range between -2.0 and 0.0 percent year over year, versus our prior range of 0.5 to 3.5 percent. The decrease in our RASM guidance reflects the following trends:

Softer bookings to Puerto Rico, equal to a headwind of 1.25 points

Weaker than forecast demand trends across our system, equal to a headwind of approximately 1 point

The preliminary forecasted impact for ongoing Hurricane Dorian, equal to a headwind of approximately 0.75 points

As previously disclosed, our third quarter RASM guidance includes a headwind of 0.75 points, mainly related to challenges in Punta Cana."

N757ST wrote:
dca1 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Just released today. They are going to cut SJU FLIGHTS...and don’t be surprised if more city closures and flights cuts

When revenue comes up short, we must take action. We’re committed to Puerto Rico for the long-term, but we may need to adjust capacity for now to better match demand. We will be ready to add it back when the business rebounds. In the meantime, we have a diverse network with options to temporarily redeploy aircraft to other better-performing routes, like transcontinental.

In times like these, we have to look at things we can control to keep our overall profitability. It’s more important than ever that we keep our costs low. I know it’s never fun to talk about cost, but having lower costs is our secret weapon in competing with airlines who are stepping up against us in our focus cities.

We’re also stepping up our marketing with a new ad campaign – Just Alright Doesn’t Fly Here – to stimulate demand for travel.

Over the next days and weeks, we may see our share price fluctuate, depending upon how this update is received. We are taking the right steps in providing this update to Owners today, and also taking the necessary steps to address the challenges we’re facing. We have incredible Crewmembers and a brand that Customers love, and I feel confident we will weather these challenges.


JetBlue always seems to be in a “crisis mode.” They always blame things like political unrest or hurricanes to their abysmal financial performance in a time when other carriers are thriving with record profits.

They are an airline and there WILL BE these types of exposure. So this leads me to my next question, are they long term viable? It seems that everything must go perfectly and they depend on paying their employees less than market rates just to get by. Something just give.


JetBlue’s financial performance isn’t abysmal, it’s industry average but they have committed to above industry average. While it’s “only” industry average, it brings in hundreds of millions of dollars a year and is committed to its investors a profit of 750+ million for 2020. Whether they can achieve that is up for debate. Whether they are financially stable is not, JetBlue is a very financially stable company with very little debt,


They have a great balance sheet, and appear to be on track to meet the cost cutting / CASM growth goals.

I'm still surprised they haven't cut some of the lower hanging fruit - secondary Cuban markets, low-yielding MCO markets (AUS, ATL, LAX), and just completely eliminated LGB. Bizarre.
 
Blueknows
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:20 pm

Pretty sure more news will be released soon
 
tu154
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:24 pm

Jumbojet is going to have a field day with this news! I’m sure he’s salivating and wringing his hands over it right now!!
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:31 pm

N757ST wrote:
dca1 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Just released today. They are going to cut SJU FLIGHTS...and don’t be surprised if more city closures and flights cuts

When revenue comes up short, we must take action. We’re committed to Puerto Rico for the long-term, but we may need to adjust capacity for now to better match demand. We will be ready to add it back when the business rebounds. In the meantime, we have a diverse network with options to temporarily redeploy aircraft to other better-performing routes, like transcontinental.

In times like these, we have to look at things we can control to keep our overall profitability. It’s more important than ever that we keep our costs low. I know it’s never fun to talk about cost, but having lower costs is our secret weapon in competing with airlines who are stepping up against us in our focus cities.

We’re also stepping up our marketing with a new ad campaign – Just Alright Doesn’t Fly Here – to stimulate demand for travel.

Over the next days and weeks, we may see our share price fluctuate, depending upon how this update is received. We are taking the right steps in providing this update to Owners today, and also taking the necessary steps to address the challenges we’re facing. We have incredible Crewmembers and a brand that Customers love, and I feel confident we will weather these challenges.


JetBlue always seems to be in a “crisis mode.” They always blame things like political unrest or hurricanes to their abysmal financial performance in a time when other carriers are thriving with record profits.

They are an airline and there WILL BE these types of exposure. So this leads me to my next question, are they long term viable? It seems that everything must go perfectly and they depend on paying their employees less than market rates just to get by. Something just give.


JetBlue’s financial performance isn’t abysmal, it’s industry average but they have committed to above industry average. While it’s “only” industry average, it brings in hundreds of millions of dollars a year and is committed to its investors a profit of 750+ million for 2020. Whether they can achieve that is up for debate. Whether they are financially stable is not, JetBlue is a very financially stable company with very little debt,



Giving back above average earnings should not rest on the shoulders of customer facing employees being compensated less than their peers. I suggest they gut middle management and slash executive compensation if they have failed to meet investor expectations. If they continue to put this on customer facing employees, they will just spiral down faster as the ONE thing that differentiates them from others, customer service, deteriorates along with moral.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:32 pm

They added too much Caribbean capacity when they made their changes to redeploy aircraft last year. And seems like their largest markets in PR and DR are under performing for a variety of reasons, so they need to adjust. Am I really sad that we are getting a little fewer PR/DR flights and more transcons? Not really. We already saw them add a 6th BOS-SFO flight with probably an all-core A321 from Caribbean. Maybe they will keep the 3rd JFK-SAN a little more after October. Who knows. It's a good time to fill in all those missing AA capacity.

There is nothing wrong with their balance sheet. But in this competitive environment, if they are striving for above average margins, they will have to do some adjustments.

We've already seen all the places WN, AA and AS have cut back many routes, should B6 not try to address weaknesses? Not everyone is like DL and have fortress hubs like DTW/MSP that just print money.

They have a great balance sheet, and appear to be on track to meet the cost cutting / CASM growth goals.

I'm still surprised they haven't cut some of the lower hanging fruit - secondary Cuban markets, low-yielding MCO markets (AUS, ATL, LAX), and just completely eliminated LGB. Bizarre.

right, WN cuts EWR completely, AA cut 30 flights off JFK for half a year, AS cut or make seasonal a bunch of routes, no one is talking about those airlines not surviving. B6 trimming some under-performing capacity, the world is over, time to sell the airline.

CobaltScar wrote:

Giving back above average earnings should not rest on the shoulders of customer facing employees being compensated less than their peers. I suggest they gut middle management and slash executive compensation if they have failed to meet investor expectations. If they continue to put this on customer facing employees, they will just spiral down faster as the ONE thing that differentiates them from others, customer service, deteriorates along with moral.

well, they are talking about route adjustments here rather than pilots or FAs. It's pretty normal for an airline to make network adjustments.
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:05 pm

tphuang wrote:
AA cut 30 flights off JFK for half a year


Wasn’t that because of the runway construction?
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 461
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:33 pm

tphuang wrote:
well, they are talking about route adjustments here rather than pilots or FAs. It's pretty normal for an airline to make network adjustments.


They are in current negotiations with the FAs for their first contract, so I'm sure this news will be used as a weapon in those negotiations. Something along the lines of "we need you guys to continue to clean the aircraft because RASM is down and our main advantage against the big boys is lower costs".
 
tu154
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:01 pm

Any tentative that contains language of any fir of blue turn being performed by jetBlue I fought would be a big NO for me.
Period.
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:02 pm

“right, WN cuts EWR completely, AA cut 30 flights off JFK for half a year, AS cut or make seasonal a bunch of routes, no one is talking about those airlines not surviving. B6 trimming some under-performing capacity, the world is over, time to sell the airline.”

Those airlines dont have their CFOs warning investors of reduced earnings.

B6 does.


Look folks, if you are a B6 line employee, this day had sadly been a long time coming


It has become apparent somewhere between the 12 hour delays, the $80 is Profit Sharing and the filthy cabins that nothing works as it is supposed to...and this is unsustainable.
 
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STT757
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:29 pm

Any chance they're freeing up aircraft to expand at EWR? Those WN gates are still up for grabs as it seems like F9 might be using IAB gates which have capacity outside the afternoon rush.




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Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:29 pm

well, AA/WN/AS haven't report yet, but I doubt they are cutting a lot of routes if they are meeting earning expectations. UA this morning came out with a guidance that's below analyst expectations also

I see JBLU down 4 to 5% today. Definitely tough day, but we will see what kind of changes they make. I don't think should be surprised if routes are cut or cities are cut. There are some low hanging fruits that they have refused to cut for many quarters. We will see what they decide with those.

I'd like to see them refocus on NYC (selfishly).
- Try to get some EWR gate, okay?
- maybe end of runway construction will allow for more slots?
- maybe beef up JFK-SFO/SAN/PHX/LAS in place of so much Caribbean leisure capacity?
- maybe trade a couple of DCA slots for LGA slots?
 
Planeboy17
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:11 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Pretty sure more news will be released soon

Um, haven’t you said statements like this before?
 
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STT757
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:13 pm

tphuang wrote:
well, AA/WN/AS haven't report yet, but I doubt they are cutting a lot of routes if they are meeting earning expectations. UA this morning came out with a guidance that's below analyst expectations also

I see JBLU down 4 to 5% today. Definitely tough day, but we will see what kind of changes they make. I don't think should be surprised if routes are cut or cities are cut. There are some low hanging fruits that they have refused to cut for many quarters. We will see what they decide with those.

I'd like to see them refocus on NYC (selfishly).
- Try to get some EWR gate, okay?
- maybe end of runway construction will allow for more slots?
- maybe beef up JFK-SFO/SAN/PHX/LAS in place of so much Caribbean leisure capacity?
- maybe trade a couple of DCA slots for LGA slots?


Or trade Kennedy slots to UA for the slots, they use for CLE from LGA and or DCA.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
FSDan
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:33 pm

STT757 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
well, AA/WN/AS haven't report yet, but I doubt they are cutting a lot of routes if they are meeting earning expectations. UA this morning came out with a guidance that's below analyst expectations also

I see JBLU down 4 to 5% today. Definitely tough day, but we will see what kind of changes they make. I don't think should be surprised if routes are cut or cities are cut. There are some low hanging fruits that they have refused to cut for many quarters. We will see what they decide with those.

I'd like to see them refocus on NYC (selfishly).
- Try to get some EWR gate, okay?
- maybe end of runway construction will allow for more slots?
- maybe beef up JFK-SFO/SAN/PHX/LAS in place of so much Caribbean leisure capacity?
- maybe trade a couple of DCA slots for LGA slots?


Or trade Kennedy slots to UA for the slots, they use for CLE from LGA and or DCA.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


The problem with UA getting JFK slots is that any airline that would trade them would be negatively impacted by UA starting LAX-JFK/SFO-JFK, and everyone knows those are the routes UA would be looking to start. So any source of slots for UA would need to either 1) not be in the JFK-LAX/SFO markets, or 2) be willing to give up on those markets or see their own revenues fall. The problem with that is that pretty much any airline that has a slot portfolio big enough for UA to buy to start transcon services, is already in the transcon market themselves and wouldn't want UA joining.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
Planeboy17
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:42 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
“right, WN cuts EWR completely, AA cut 30 flights off JFK for half a year, AS cut or make seasonal a bunch of routes, no one is talking about those airlines not surviving. B6 trimming some under-performing capacity, the world is over, time to sell the airline.”

Those airlines dont have their CFOs warning investors of reduced earnings.

B6 does.


Look folks, if you are a B6 line employee, this day had sadly been a long time coming


It has become apparent somewhere between the 12 hour delays, the $80 is Profit Sharing and the filthy cabins that nothing works as it is supposed to...and this is unsustainable.

What day has been coming? The day where the B6 CFO makes a lower RASM projection and they cut some Puerto Rico flying?
Your tone makes it sound like Chapter 11 is right around the corner.
They were scheduled to take 13 321NEOs this year but due to Airbus production issues they may only take 6 this year. As far as I know they will take the rest (7) next year and we’re scheduled to take either 13 or 15 more 321s along with the first 220. That could be a net gain of possibly 23 new planes next year. Maybe the Airbus issues extend into next year, maybe they defer some of the originally scheduled 321 deliveries and maybe they actually start to remove some of the older 320s ( I have heard that this has been discussed) but that definitely shows their still in growth mode. I’ve also been told they are looking at hiring north of 400 pilots next year, the most they’ve hired in one calendar year in their history. Sure, they could easily lower that number and it’s certainly true that mid year projections for hiring almost always fluctuate but they’re also starting a new marketing campaign.
My point is your statements sound like B6 is diagnosed with certain death, and maybe that happens over the next few years, which is still incredibly unlikely, but to declare that after this announcement is just utterly ridiculous.
 
Planeboy17
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:09 pm

FSDan wrote:
STT757 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
well, AA/WN/AS haven't report yet, but I doubt they are cutting a lot of routes if they are meeting earning expectations. UA this morning came out with a guidance that's below analyst expectations also

I see JBLU down 4 to 5% today. Definitely tough day, but we will see what kind of changes they make. I don't think should be surprised if routes are cut or cities are cut. There are some low hanging fruits that they have refused to cut for many quarters. We will see what they decide with those.

I'd like to see them refocus on NYC (selfishly).
- Try to get some EWR gate, okay?
- maybe end of runway construction will allow for more slots?
- maybe beef up JFK-SFO/SAN/PHX/LAS in place of so much Caribbean leisure capacity?
- maybe trade a couple of DCA slots for LGA slots?


Or trade Kennedy slots to UA for the slots, they use for CLE from LGA and or DCA.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


The problem with UA getting JFK slots is that any airline that would trade them would be negatively impacted by UA starting LAX-JFK/SFO-JFK, and everyone knows those are the routes UA would be looking to start. So any source of slots for UA would need to either 1) not be in the JFK-LAX/SFO markets, or 2) be willing to give up on those markets or see their own revenues fall. The problem with that is that pretty much any airline that has a slot portfolio big enough for UA to buy to start transcon services, is already in the transcon market themselves and wouldn't want UA joining.

Excellent points FSDan! I know a lot of people say UA rues the decision to pull out of JFK, especially with Scott Kirby’s own words, but but I don’t see how they can get back there not to mention what they would even fly if they could. Another question is where would they get gates?
T8. It’s probably the one terminal that would have enough room but who thinks AA is going to lease gates to UA?
T7. Their old stomping ground but is there any room left? Not to mention the B6 plan to take this terminal for themselves for their next expansion so that’s out.
T5. Even if there was room would B6 lease gates to UA?
T4. I don’t know how much control DL has along with the Port Authority but I’d doubt there’s any room there anyway.
T2. Again can anyone see DL leasing gates to UA
T1. Is there any room outside of the early morning and late evening for gates?
I don’t know the specifics obviously but it looks doubtful for any descent # of gates and that’s assuming they can even get any slots. I just think it’s extremely unlikely that UA returns to JFK barring a merger.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:15 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
They were scheduled to take 13 321NEOs this year but due to Airbus production issues they may only take 6 this year. As far as I know they will take the rest (7) next year and we’re scheduled to take either 13 or 15 more 321s along with the first 220.


I believe they will take 14 next year as per their recent update. I would assume delayed A321NEO will simply roll forward to the years after. That's why they cut back on growth projection for 2020.

I keep telling people 2019-2020 will be tough for JetBlue. By the end of that, A320 will be all or mostly reconfigured, they will finally get A321LR and A220 and this A321NEO delay will be behind them.
 
Planeboy17
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:26 pm

STT757 wrote:
Any chance they're freeing up aircraft to expand at EWR? Those WN gates are still up for grabs as it seems like F9 might be using IAB gates which have capacity outside the afternoon rush.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Does anyone know how EWR will allocate the gates at the new terminal? I think this could be of great importance for these gates if there is some connection to carry over to access of the new gates. I would think that just the ability to get more gates at the new terminal would be worth the investment of picking up the SWA gates now even if an airline would have to fly some loss making routes for a short while.
I have no idea if B6 is making $ at EWR but they have had steady growth there pretty much since they started serving the airport. Not to mention that the SWA gates are already in Terminal A where B6 is located. B6 doesn’t have to take all of the gates, I think there’s 3, but I think they should at least take 1 or 2 of them if not all of them. These kind of opportunities don’t come along very often and B6 has always been good about jumping on opportunity at competitive airports. I’d be very disappointed if they don’t get at least 1 gate and actually disappointed if that’s all they got.
 
phllax
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:36 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Just released today. They are going to cut SJU FLIGHTS...and don’t be surprised if more city closures and flights cuts


Any idea on when the cuts will take place and to which routes? There was already a massive schedule change a few weeks ago which impacted MCO-SJU.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:42 pm

FSDan wrote:
The problem with UA getting JFK slots is that any airline that would trade them would be negatively impacted by UA starting LAX-JFK/SFO-JFK, and everyone knows those are the routes UA would be looking to start. So any source of slots for UA would need to either 1) not be in the JFK-LAX/SFO markets, or 2) be willing to give up on those markets or see their own revenues fall. The problem with that is that pretty much any airline that has a slot portfolio big enough for UA to buy to start transcon services, is already in the transcon market themselves and wouldn't want UA joining.


What about Alaska selling UA those slots? They can't handle the JFK transcon game as is, so they won't be missing much.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:33 pm

OT, but if AS isn't in the JFK transcon market it's going to lose a lot of relevance in SFO and LAX and really be just a up-and-down the West Coast carrier out of those markets.
 
jplatts
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:16 pm

B6 could establish a Midwestern focus city at CVG or IND in order to diversify itself beyond its JFK, BOS, FLL, MCO, and LGB focus cities.

Advantages of a Midwest focus city for B6 include the following:
(a) Allows B6 to offer connecting service to additional destinations from domestic destinations outside of NYC/BOS,
(b) Provides easier connectivity to cities in between CVG and NYC from cities further west on B6,
(c) Allows B6 to expand domestically at an airport that isn't slot restricted, whereas JFK, LGA, DCA, and LGB all have slot restrictions,
(d) Makes B6 a more viable alternative to US3 carriers or WN for domestic air travel,
(e) Gives B6 stronger brand recognition outside of NYC/BOS,
and
(f) Enables B6 to expand its frequent flyer base outside of NYC/BOS.
 
nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:41 pm

jplatts wrote:
B6 could establish a Midwestern focus city at CVG or IND in order to diversify itself beyond its JFK, BOS, FLL, MCO, and LGB focus cities.

Advantages of a Midwest focus city for B6 include the following:
(a) Allows B6 to offer connecting service to additional destinations from domestic destinations outside of NYC/BOS,
(b) Provides easier connectivity to cities in between CVG and NYC from cities further west on B6,
(c) Allows B6 to expand domestically at an airport that isn't slot restricted, whereas JFK, LGA, DCA, and LGB all have slot restrictions,
(d) Makes B6 a more viable alternative to US3 carriers or WN for domestic air travel,
(e) Gives B6 stronger brand recognition outside of NYC/BOS,
and
(f) Enables B6 to expand its frequent flyer base outside of NYC/BOS.



Oh geez more of the “Midwest Hub” nonsense. The Midwest does not fit the B6 business model period. They serve strong focus and hub O&D cities FLL, JFK, BOS and LGB. Why on earth would an east cost heavy presence backtrack to connect its passengers to the Midwest only to route them back to Latin America and the Caribbean. A hub in the Midwest would be mostly for connecting purposes. No city outside of Chicago really has a strong O&D to support it. Why do you think that they haven’t done it to this point none the less have much of a Midwest presence period? It doesn’t fit their business model or attract the type of traveler they cater to. There are plenty of airlines that make good use of the Midwest (NK-ORD,DTW,DFW F9-CVG,CLE,ORD SY-MSP G4-IND, GRR,CVG) with modest size focus cities, and a handful that already operate meager hubs throughout (DL- MSP,DTW,CVG UA-IAH,DEN,CLE,ORD AA-DFW,ORD WN-MDW,HOU,DEN,DAL)
B6 does not need a Midwest hub.....
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:41 pm

nine4nine wrote:
Oh geez more of the “Midwest Hub” nonsense. The Midwest does not fit the B6 business model period. They serve strong focus and hub O&D cities FLL, JFK, BOS and LGB. Why on earth would an east cost heavy presence backtrack to connect its passengers to the Midwest only to route them back to Latin America and the Caribbean. A hub in the Midwest would be mostly for connecting purposes. No city outside of Chicago really has a strong O&D to support it. Why do you think that they haven’t done it to this point none the less have much of a Midwest presence period? It doesn’t fit their business model or attract the type of traveler they cater to. There are plenty of airlines that make good use of the Midwest (NK-ORD,DTW,DFW F9-CVG,CLE,ORD SY-MSP G4-IND, GRR,CVG) with modest size focus cities, and a handful that already operate meager hubs throughout (DL- MSP,DTW,CVG UA-IAH,DEN,CLE,ORD AA-DFW,ORD WN-MDW,HOU,DEN,DAL)
B6 does not need a Midwest hub.....


I agree with your point, especially with WN already serving many domestic destinations in the Mountain West, Southwest, Midwest, and South that aren't served by B6. WN also already offers 1-stop connecting service to domestic destinations not served by B6 from the Midwestern cities served by WN.

When I was talking about B6 possibly establishing a hub or focus city in the Midwest, I was primarily talking about domestic connections to the Western U.S., the western half of the Midwest, and the Southern U.S. from East Coast cities that do not require backtracking (as opposed to connections to the Caribbean from the East Coast through a Midwestern hub).
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:59 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
“right, WN cuts EWR completely, AA cut 30 flights off JFK for half a year, AS cut or make seasonal a bunch of routes, no one is talking about those airlines not surviving. B6 trimming some under-performing capacity, the world is over, time to sell the airline.”

Those airlines dont have their CFOs warning investors of reduced earnings.

B6 does.


Look folks, if you are a B6 line employee, this day had sadly been a long time coming


It has become apparent somewhere between the 12 hour delays, the $80 is Profit Sharing and the filthy cabins that nothing works as it is supposed to...and this is unsustainable.

What day has been coming? The day where the B6 CFO makes a lower RASM projection and they cut some Puerto Rico flying?
Your tone makes it sound like Chapter 11 is right around the corner.
They were scheduled to take 13 321NEOs this year but due to Airbus production issues they may only take 6 this year. As far as I know they will take the rest (7) next year and we’re scheduled to take either 13 or 15 more 321s along with the first 220. That could be a net gain of possibly 23 new planes next year. Maybe the Airbus issues extend into next year, maybe they defer some of the originally scheduled 321 deliveries and maybe they actually start to remove some of the older 320s ( I have heard that this has been discussed) but that definitely shows their still in growth mode. I’ve also been told they are looking at hiring north of 400 pilots next year, the most they’ve hired in one calendar year in their history. Sure, they could easily lower that number and it’s certainly true that mid year projections for hiring almost always fluctuate but they’re also starting a new marketing campaign.
My point is your statements sound like B6 is diagnosed with certain death, and maybe that happens over the next few years, which is still incredibly unlikely, but to declare that after this announcement is just utterly ridiculous.



Anybody that thinks B6 would take 23 planes in a year hasnt followed their delivery history closely.

Sadly, that discredits your post a bit.

B6 isnt at deaths door. Nor will they ever be. They are simply too valuable on 4 fronts:

1. New 321s

2. JFK slots

3. JFK real estate

4. Pilots during a pilot shortage (this value is always questionable, but I throw them on list anyway)


B6 has several nagging problems

1. Runaway costs that they cant seem to control

2. Marginal revenue that they cant seem to grow

3. Growth that is too slow to outpace costs but too fast to contain costs

4. Operationally deficient in OTP

5. A dated LCC product that doesnt align with other LCC in US

6. They are not hub and spoke, but their network is now hub and spoke

7. One of those hubs is a loser. Two other hubs are gate constrained. A third hub has little short haul business flying. Ouch on all fronts

I can go on

Long story short, they are the Goldilocks of airlines. Not to hot, not to cold...and after a while Wall St wonders why they are investing in their porridge business
 
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:30 pm

jplatts wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
Oh geez more of the “Midwest Hub” nonsense. The Midwest does not fit the B6 business model period. They serve strong focus and hub O&D cities FLL, JFK, BOS and LGB. Why on earth would an east cost heavy presence backtrack to connect its passengers to the Midwest only to route them back to Latin America and the Caribbean. A hub in the Midwest would be mostly for connecting purposes. No city outside of Chicago really has a strong O&D to support it. Why do you think that they haven’t done it to this point none the less have much of a Midwest presence period? It doesn’t fit their business model or attract the type of traveler they cater to. There are plenty of airlines that make good use of the Midwest (NK-ORD,DTW,DFW F9-CVG,CLE,ORD SY-MSP G4-IND, GRR,CVG) with modest size focus cities, and a handful that already operate meager hubs throughout (DL- MSP,DTW,CVG UA-IAH,DEN,CLE,ORD AA-DFW,ORD WN-MDW,HOU,DEN,DAL)
B6 does not need a Midwest hub.....


I agree with your point, especially with WN already serving many domestic destinations in the Mountain West, Southwest, Midwest, and South that aren't served by B6. WN also already offers 1-stop connecting service to domestic destinations not served by B6 from the Midwestern cities served by WN.

When I was talking about B6 possibly establishing a hub or focus city in the Midwest, I was primarily talking about domestic connections to the Western U.S., the western half of the Midwest, and the Southern U.S. from East Coast cities that do not require backtracking (as opposed to connections to the Caribbean from the East Coast through a Midwestern hub).


Thank for the reply jplatts. Yes I see what you are saying however I think the B6 strategy is different from the rest of the pack. They are a niche carrier that focuses solely on getting people to BOS,JFK,and FLL and down to the tropics from there. So until they change the focus of their operation I don’t ever see the Midwest hub scenario happening.
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Gulfstream500
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:22 am

jplatts wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
Oh geez more of the “Midwest Hub” nonsense. The Midwest does not fit the B6 business model period. They serve strong focus and hub O&D cities FLL, JFK, BOS and LGB. Why on earth would an east cost heavy presence backtrack to connect its passengers to the Midwest only to route them back to Latin America and the Caribbean. A hub in the Midwest would be mostly for connecting purposes. No city outside of Chicago really has a strong O&D to support it. Why do you think that they haven’t done it to this point none the less have much of a Midwest presence period? It doesn’t fit their business model or attract the type of traveler they cater to. There are plenty of airlines that make good use of the Midwest (NK-ORD,DTW,DFW F9-CVG,CLE,ORD SY-MSP G4-IND, GRR,CVG) with modest size focus cities, and a handful that already operate meager hubs throughout (DL- MSP,DTW,CVG UA-IAH,DEN,CLE,ORD AA-DFW,ORD WN-MDW,HOU,DEN,DAL)
B6 does not need a Midwest hub.....


I agree with your point, especially with WN already serving many domestic destinations in the Mountain West, Southwest, Midwest, and South that aren't served by B6. WN also already offers 1-stop connecting service to domestic destinations not served by B6 from the Midwestern cities served by WN.

When I was talking about B6 possibly establishing a hub or focus city in the Midwest, I was primarily talking about domestic connections to the Western U.S., the western half of the Midwest, and the Southern U.S. from East Coast cities that do not require backtracking (as opposed to connections to the Caribbean from the East Coast through a Midwestern hub).


I don’t think a Midwest hub will happen. Our best bet for a mid-continent hub on B6 is AUS (it has flights to all of the B6 hubs; no other mid continent airport can say that) and that’s a stretch. As for any airport becoming a B6 focus city, I think that DCA or PBI is our best bet.
Can someone please start a wikipedia list of failed startup airlines? I am interested in seeing just how long it would be...
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:01 pm

AUS is not happening because everyone is going to try to move in. Not a good idea.
Their next growth city is supposedly MCO, but I'm not convinced it will start according to their original plan. Given FLL is still about 30 flights from their stated goal and BOS still needs to be grown, I think MCO build up will be pushed to mid 2020s. And given how airline industry changes, that might as well be eternity.

What I think they should do is solidify their presence in the New York to New England area and Florida. That means more P2P from EWR/BDL/PVD/PBI/RSW/TPA.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:28 pm

They are taking possession of the new southern terminal in MCO with more gates than they have now, they will have no choice but to build MCO or the move is a colossal waste of money.
 
LeftcoastB6
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:32 pm

First post on here, go easy on me lol...It’s a bummer for those of us out West who enjoy B6. IMO, the amenities are great for what you pay for (not including the FF stuff). I fly to JFK every year to visit family, and would love to fly to more places on the West Coast and Midwest on B6. But unless you’re going to JFK BOS or FLL there’s no point in using them. JetBlue is My favorite airline to fly on, the pipe dream will be for a more nationwide network. Nevertheless, very unlikely that happens as stated countless times on this site. For now I’ll stick with ol reliable Southwest.

Just my 2 cents
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:40 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
They are taking possession of the new southern terminal in MCO with more gates than they have now, they will have no choice but to build MCO or the move is a colossal waste of money.
They could start by hitting DL for growing at BOS by adding DTW as well as ORD, CLE, & PIT for the Midwest, that in itself would be 4 additional flights.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:55 pm

flymco753 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
They are taking possession of the new southern terminal in MCO with more gates than they have now, they will have no choice but to build MCO or the move is a colossal waste of money.
They could start by hitting DL for growing at BOS by adding DTW as well as ORD, CLE, & PIT for the Midwest, that in itself would be 4 additional flights.



Right. There is a whole eastern half of the country that goes to Disney, but might appreciate the amenities jetBlue offers for their kids on the ride that they don't get on WN/NK/F9/G4. MCO is the one base that could warrant a deep expansion into middle America. Their main competitor would be Delta for that middle of the road family vacation niche.

Maybe this is their plan, since they are taking non-MINT 321s for awhile now.
 
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:58 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
Oh geez more of the “Midwest Hub” nonsense. The Midwest does not fit the B6 business model period. They serve strong focus and hub O&D cities FLL, JFK, BOS and LGB. Why on earth would an east cost heavy presence backtrack to connect its passengers to the Midwest only to route them back to Latin America and the Caribbean. A hub in the Midwest would be mostly for connecting purposes. No city outside of Chicago really has a strong O&D to support it. Why do you think that they haven’t done it to this point none the less have much of a Midwest presence period? It doesn’t fit their business model or attract the type of traveler they cater to. There are plenty of airlines that make good use of the Midwest (NK-ORD,DTW,DFW F9-CVG,CLE,ORD SY-MSP G4-IND, GRR,CVG) with modest size focus cities, and a handful that already operate meager hubs throughout (DL- MSP,DTW,CVG UA-IAH,DEN,CLE,ORD AA-DFW,ORD WN-MDW,HOU,DEN,DAL)
B6 does not need a Midwest hub.....


I agree with your point, especially with WN already serving many domestic destinations in the Mountain West, Southwest, Midwest, and South that aren't served by B6. WN also already offers 1-stop connecting service to domestic destinations not served by B6 from the Midwestern cities served by WN.

When I was talking about B6 possibly establishing a hub or focus city in the Midwest, I was primarily talking about domestic connections to the Western U.S., the western half of the Midwest, and the Southern U.S. from East Coast cities that do not require backtracking (as opposed to connections to the Caribbean from the East Coast through a Midwestern hub).


I don’t think a Midwest hub will happen. Our best bet for a mid-continent hub on B6 is AUS (it has flights to all of the B6 hubs; no other mid continent airport can say that) and that’s a stretch. As for any airport becoming a B6 focus city, I think that DCA or PBI is our best bet.


With increasing non-stop transcontinental options for East Coast and Midwest cities, what would be the attraction of flying all the way down to AUS to connect to the West Coast? The only sensible flow would be north-south. AUS as a B6 LATAM hub? I don't see it.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:13 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
They are taking possession of the new southern terminal in MCO with more gates than they have now, they will have no choice but to build MCO or the move is a colossal waste of money.
They could start by hitting DL for growing at BOS by adding DTW as well as ORD, CLE, & PIT for the Midwest, that in itself would be 4 additional flights.



Right. There is a whole eastern half of the country that goes to Disney, but might appreciate the amenities jetBlue offers for their kids on the ride that they don't get on WN/NK/F9/G4. MCO is the one base that could warrant a deep expansion into middle America. Their main competitor would be Delta for that middle of the road family vacation niche.

Maybe this is their plan, since they are taking non-MINT 321s for awhile now.


B6 isn't ambitious enough to try that, even though an overwelming amount of MCO demand comes from middle america
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MIflyer12
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:15 pm

flymco753 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
They are taking possession of the new southern terminal in MCO with more gates than they have now, they will have no choice but to build MCO or the move is a colossal waste of money.
They could start by hitting DL for growing at BOS by adding DTW as well as ORD, CLE, & PIT for the Midwest, that in itself would be 4 additional flights.


B6 trying MCO-DTW is a very, very poor idea. That route already has F9 and NK in addition to DL. B6 can't compete with DL on frequency (on that route) and F cabins. It can't compete with NK and F9 on costs. It already quit DTW-FLL after 3 1/2 years of trying; DTW-MCO wouldn't be an easier.
 
Brickell305
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:18 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
They are taking possession of the new southern terminal in MCO with more gates than they have now, they will have no choice but to build MCO or the move is a colossal waste of money.
They could start by hitting DL for growing at BOS by adding DTW as well as ORD, CLE, & PIT for the Midwest, that in itself would be 4 additional flights.



Right. There is a whole eastern half of the country that goes to Disney, but might appreciate the amenities jetBlue offers for their kids on the ride that they don't get on WN/NK/F9/G4. MCO is the one base that could warrant a deep expansion into middle America. Their main competitor would be Delta for that middle of the road family vacation niche.

Maybe this is their plan, since they are taking non-MINT 321s for awhile now.

If NYC didn't warrant a deep expansion into middle America, why would MCO with all the added heavy competition from the likes of WN/NK/F9/G4 plus the legacies?
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:47 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
They could start by hitting DL for growing at BOS by adding DTW as well as ORD, CLE, & PIT for the Midwest, that in itself would be 4 additional flights.



Right. There is a whole eastern half of the country that goes to Disney, but might appreciate the amenities jetBlue offers for their kids on the ride that they don't get on WN/NK/F9/G4. MCO is the one base that could warrant a deep expansion into middle America. Their main competitor would be Delta for that middle of the road family vacation niche.

Maybe this is their plan, since they are taking non-MINT 321s for awhile now.

If NYC didn't warrant a deep expansion into middle America, why would MCO with all the added heavy competition from the likes of WN/NK/F9/G4 plus the legacies?



Because all those families in Montgomery, Memphis, Indianapolis and Kansas City want to go see Mickey, not the statue of liberty.

Why B6 and not WN/NK/F9/G4? Because like I mentioned above, when taking your family to the Magic Kingdom, why not pay a little bit more for TVs for them to watch cartoons on, and more comfortable seats/tastier snacks and more than a half full plastic cup of soda?
 
StinkyPinky
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:02 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Why B6 and not WN/NK/F9/G4? Because like I mentioned above, when taking your family to the Magic Kingdom, why not pay a little bit more for TVs for them to watch cartoons on, and more comfortable seats/tastier snacks and more than a half full plastic cup of soda?


I think that's the problem... despite the IFE, free wifi, etc., customers just aren't willing to pay for these nice extras- same problem with Virgin America. There was some study that showed people would spend an additional 45 minutes shopping online to save a $1.00. And then, when it's a family of 4 traveling, that $20 premium ends up being $80, which is a single meal at Disney. And then you're delayed on top of that :/
 
Brickell305
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:20 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:


Right. There is a whole eastern half of the country that goes to Disney, but might appreciate the amenities jetBlue offers for their kids on the ride that they don't get on WN/NK/F9/G4. MCO is the one base that could warrant a deep expansion into middle America. Their main competitor would be Delta for that middle of the road family vacation niche.

Maybe this is their plan, since they are taking non-MINT 321s for awhile now.

If NYC didn't warrant a deep expansion into middle America, why would MCO with all the added heavy competition from the likes of WN/NK/F9/G4 plus the legacies?



Because all those families in Montgomery, Memphis, Indianapolis and Kansas City want to go see Mickey, not the statue of liberty.

Why B6 and not WN/NK/F9/G4? Because like I mentioned above, when taking your family to the Magic Kingdom, why not pay a little bit more for TVs for them to watch cartoons on, and more comfortable seats/tastier snacks and more than a half full plastic cup of soda?

Because for a family of 4, the extra you'd pay wouldn't make it worth it. The higher fare B6 would charge relative to WN/G4/F9 would need to be multiplied by 4. Better to pay the extra to the likes of a WN and at least have your bags taken care of with it.

Just to add, children don't need bigger/more comfortable seats. And unless, the fare difference were very little, I don't see snacks making a big difference. What might be worth the extra is personal entertainment but I'm also pretty sure most people would rather have bags included at no extra cost than PTVs for that kind of trip.
Last edited by Brickell305 on Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:20 pm

I think B6 has done a poor job letting once a year travelers know what they give extra to them on the plane. If they could run commercials in the midwest educating families on how much more comfortable they would be...

There are brands people WILL pay more for. jetBlue is one, or on the verge of being one.

If this fails then they have no choice but to become a ULCC themselves (like frontier did) or sell out to a major.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:30 pm

In any market where there is NK + a dominant big 4 (whether DL at DTW or WN at BWI), you see B6 getting crushed on those kind of routes to Florida. That's the kind of market it currently has trouble being successful at. Every market is different. There are middle of america to florida routes that have less competition that they can be successful in. But they have yet to open enough stations to be able to test those out. There is a couple of things that could change that. One is the implementation of Basic economy. Second is the addition of A220 and A321NEO to lower cost. But at the moment, I would deploy most new A220 to BOS (with a few to JFK/FLL) and all new A321NEO to JFK/BOS.

The full implication of DL buildup at BOS is that JFK is being re-oriented as the cash cow of the network and FLL buildup is delayed so that most of the resources can support continued BOS growth. This wasn't the case when they originally envisioned growing in MCO.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:38 pm

I don't see how Basic Economy is going to work for B6. They already said they won't deny them snacks/drinks, and the seats will have TVs anyways and the free Wi-Fi is plane wide. So what is going to be so basic about basic economy??? If anything it will just cannibalize their OWN PRICING in the rest of the cabin. Why pay more for non-basic economy?

They really are in a pickle. I just hope they move upwards towards traditional carrier and not downwards to Spirit/Frontier tier.

edit: I think they need to reduce their snack offering. They don't need multiple brands of bulky air filled chip bags. They need one sweet and one salty snack option, both compact like cookies and nuts (won't be nuts since everyone is dropping a quality and costly snack like that under the smokescreen of nut allergies, maybe cheese and crackers like I see WN serve a lot). Currently they have to store several big snack baskets full of bulky snacks in the overhead bins, taking up valuable bin space, just not wise all around.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:19 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
I don't see how Basic Economy is going to work for B6. They already said they won't deny them snacks/drinks, and the seats will have TVs anyways and the free Wi-Fi is plane wide. So what is going to be so basic about basic economy??? If anything it will just cannibalize their OWN PRICING in the rest of the cabin. Why pay more for non-basic economy?

They really are in a pickle. I just hope they move upwards towards traditional carrier and not downwards to Spirit/Frontier tier.

edit: I think they need to reduce their snack offering. They don't need multiple brands of bulky air filled chip bags. They need one sweet and one salty snack option, both compact like cookies and nuts (won't be nuts since everyone is dropping a quality and costly snack like that under the smokescreen of nut allergies, maybe cheese and crackers like I see WN serve a lot). Currently they have to store several big snack baskets full of bulky snacks in the overhead bins, taking up valuable bin space, just not wise all around.


The point of BE is not necessarily to get people to pay for BE but to get more people to buy up, which they aren't doing currently to blue plus. You need to create more a value proposition to get the bargain hunters to buy something like blue basic and people seeking for a little more to buy blue regular. Things for BE would be only seat selection at back of the plane, no check-in luggage, no mileage accretion, higher cancellation/change fees, unable to upgrade into EMS. For the regular economy, you could have full seat selection, same mileage accretion, 1 check-in luggage and cheap upgrade into EMS. It may not sound very different, but gaining even $10 value here and there could change the economic of things significantly. And then you can add some value to mosaic, by allowing full seat selection and mileage accretion even with blue basic fare. For a mosaic, the ability to upgrade to EMS for essentially peanuts would be a pretty good incentive to not buy BE fare. And on the higher end, they need to have a blue plus fare level that would attract people to purchase more often.

I'm surprised JetBlue hasn't made more of an effort to commoditize EMS. Seems to me adding a couple of free alcohol and snacks to those seats would entice more a premium in to those seats.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:36 pm

tphuang wrote:

I'm surprised JetBlue hasn't made more of an effort to commoditize EMS. Seems to me adding a couple of free alcohol and snacks to those seats would entice more a premium in to those seats.


Yes I was already thinking this before I even got to that part of your post. EMS needs to be transformed into comfort + type deal. Throw in some free beer/wine and snack boxes. Not the EMS around the exit row though, just the front of the cabin EMS.
 
arfbool
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:02 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:09 pm

Just noticed while searching for holiday flights that the JFK-BUR flights switch up to A321 around December 17th and seems to stay that way at least through January (as far as I looked.) No MINT option, but still very curious about what this means and also how the A321 will perform departing Burbank.

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