HaulSudson
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:07 am

It was mentioned in the economist that KQ needs a rescue, which is delayed because of disagreement between Kenyatta and a vice-president
Plus the talk of overcapacity, it seems unlikely to me that KQ is ordering new aircraft anytime soon.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:56 am

HaulSudson wrote:
It was mentioned in the economist that KQ needs a rescue, which is delayed because of disagreement between Kenyatta and a vice-president
Plus the talk of overcapacity, it seems unlikely to me that KQ is ordering new aircraft anytime soon.

Can not agree more!
IIRC, when the 787 was delayed in the past, KQ (or journalists) made the same annoucement that airline would switch to A330. There is thread on A.net but the search function s#cks.
Have you read what KQ CEO said:
"In comments made during the week did Mikosz also blast the airline’s pilots whom he called ‘overpaid‘ while saying the rest of the workforce is ‘bloated'
...
It is all but clear now that Kenya Airways, unless they can grab the cash purse of the Kenya Airports Authority, may have to cut services and routes, or as Mikosz put it, reduce itself to the level of Jambojet, a KQ subsidiary incidentally making profits.
Mikosz contract is up for renewal by May this year and it remains to be seen, given the upcoming bad financial results, if either he asks for a contract extension, one is offered to him by the board or else he will leave the airline.
"

https://atcnews.org/2019/03/17/kenyaair ... ter-truth/

nairobby wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
Yes temporary. Will post as much news as I can :)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:07 am

:arrow: Rwandair obtained from the CAAC, the traffic rights to serve the city of Guangzhou, its first destination in China.
Flights to the vast port city of southern China will begin before the third quarter as an extension of the Kigali-Mumbai service, which Rwandair currently connects three times a week. The airline also enjoys the fifth freedom rights between Guangzhou (CAN) and Mumbai (BOM).

https://newsaero.info/airlines/rwandair ... ?true=1633

:arrow: Fly SAX (B5, Nairobi Jomo Kenyatta) has announced it has rebranded itself as EastAfrican (B5, Nairobi Jomo Kenyatta) effective immediately. Even prior to the renaming, the firm's legal name was East African Safari Air Express Ltd.
The low-fare airline is a subsidiary of Fly540 and currently operates a fleet that includes one CRJ-100, one Dash 8-100, one Dash 8-300, one Beech 1900D, and two Cessna (single turboprop) 208B Grand Caravans.
One of them crashed last year on the way to Nairobi - killing all passengers onboard!

http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/5c8a ... astafrican

Hope aircraft will be repainted quickly:
Image
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LGAviation
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:03 am

eastafspot wrote:
:arrow: Rwandair obtained from the CAAC, the traffic rights to serve the city of Guangzhou, its first destination in China.
Flights to the vast port city of southern China will begin before the third quarter as an extension of the Kigali-Mumbai service, which Rwandair currently connects three times a week. The airline also enjoys the fifth freedom rights between Guangzhou (CAN) and Mumbai (BOM).

https://newsaero.info/airlines/rwandair ... ?true=1633

:arrow: Fly SAX (B5, Nairobi Jomo Kenyatta) has announced it has rebranded itself as EastAfrican (B5, Nairobi Jomo Kenyatta) effective immediately. Even prior to the renaming, the firm's legal name was East African Safari Air Express Ltd.
The low-fare airline is a subsidiary of Fly540 and currently operates a fleet that includes one CRJ-100, one Dash 8-100, one Dash 8-300, one Beech 1900D, and two Cessna (single turboprop) 208B Grand Caravans.
One of them crashed last year on the way to Nairobi - killing all passengers onboard!

http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/5c8a ... astafrican

Hope aircraft will be repainted quickly:
Image



Thanks for sharing!
When Rwandair talked about extending the BOM flight to CAN, I was a little skeptical at first but with Fifth Freedom rights that's a whole different animal given the comparatively limited options between China and India
2018: ADD CPH DAR DEN DME DUB FRA HAH HAM IST JIB KEF LYR MEL OSL PEK PKC PVG RAK STN SVO SYD YVR
 
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:05 pm

LGAviation wrote:
Thanks for sharing!
When Rwandair talked about extending the BOM flight to CAN, I was a little skeptical at first but with Fifth Freedom rights that's a whole different animal given the comparatively limited options between China and India


Really? Glad you are here, LGAviation, to provide this rare info useful also for future travellers :smile: !
What are the normal options right now on this route (sorry i'm not aware about Asian ops)?

If everything goes well, you might enjoy/fly an A330 on this Asian (BOM - CAN) 5th freedom soon! :yes:
So, for which reason(s) you would fly with them?
To be continued...
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LGAviation
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:27 pm

eastafspot wrote:
LGAviation wrote:
Thanks for sharing!
When Rwandair talked about extending the BOM flight to CAN, I was a little skeptical at first but with Fifth Freedom rights that's a whole different animal given the comparatively limited options between China and India


Really? Glad you are here, LGAviation, to provide this rare info useful also for future travellers :smile: !
What are the normal options right now on this route (sorry i'm not aware about Asian ops)?

If everything goes well, you might enjoy/fly an A330 on this Asian (BOM - CAN) 5th freedom soon! :yes:
So, for which reason(s) you would fly with them?
To be continued...


There are currently no flights between those massive population centres to my knowledge and India-China in general is very little.
2018: ADD CPH DAR DEN DME DUB FRA HAH HAM IST JIB KEF LYR MEL OSL PEK PKC PVG RAK STN SVO SYD YVR
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:54 pm

LGAviation wrote:
.There are currently no flights between those massive population centres to my knowledge and India-China in general is very little.

Do you really mean between BOM and CAN?
Very intriguing....
What/when is your next trip planned to?
You will get updates soon when WB will start selling tickect to CAN. It's a promise :shy:
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berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:02 am

eastafspot wrote:
HaulSudson wrote:
It was mentioned in the economist that KQ needs a rescue, which is delayed because of disagreement between Kenyatta and a vice-president
Plus the talk of overcapacity, it seems unlikely to me that KQ is ordering new aircraft anytime soon.

Can not agree more!
IIRC, when the 787 was delayed in the past, KQ (or journalists) made the same annoucement that airline would switch to A330. There is thread on A.net but the search function s#cks.
Have you read what KQ CEO said:
"[i]In comments made during the week did Mikosz also blast the airline’s pilots whom he called ‘overpaid‘ while saying the rest of the workforce is ‘bloated'
...
It is all but clear now that Kenya Airways, unless they can grab the cash purse of the Kenya Airports Authority, may have to cut services and routes, or as Mikosz put it, reduce itself to the level of Jambojet, a KQ subsidiary incidentally making profits.


I imagine this overcapacity is the case on the regional aircraft space for it had to repatriate the B787s to launch new services to JFK and frequency to AMS. Two of the 195s bumped into each other so that addresses that somewhat ... And where is this A330 talk coming from? The B787s serve the right purpose and are not much larger than A330s. Worth noting that the B787s have 234 seats compared to Ethiopian's 270.

As far as the Kenya Airports Authority, how is it that KQ's profitability is going to be linked to it. Someone explain this to me please. Does KQ, once it takes it over, intend to no longer charge itself for use of the airport and facilities, thereby reducing its costs? I have been trying to understand the rationale here. Also, a non profitable entity that is on the verge of collapsing trying to take over and manage a profitable one by showing its true colours of desperation?

I believe that KQ is trying to be a boutique airline in a highly competitive environment that will not allow it to play by the rules it set for itself.
 
LGAviation
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:15 am

eastafspot wrote:
LGAviation wrote:
.There are currently no flights between those massive population centres to my knowledge and India-China in general is very little.

Do you really mean between BOM and CAN?
Very intriguing....
What/when is your next trip planned to?
You will get updates soon when WB will start selling tickect to CAN. It's a promise :shy:


Yes, I really mean Mumbai and Guangzhou :D
China and India are far less interconnected than one would think which is partly due to restrictive bilaterals and partly due to lack of economic ties due to poor diplomatic relations.
Mumbai sees service to PEK on CA and PVG on AI (there are more cargo flights). This is why I was surprised that they got fifth freedom rights on the route because it's most certainly not the tenth time an African airline gets rights on SIN-KUL or BKK-HKG. This is a real opportunity if done right and if Rwandair manages to overcome biases in the region (from what I've seen on trip reports and on my only ever Rwandair trip betwen Entebbe and Kigali, the product lives up to Chinese Indian standards.

Unfortunately, I don't think I'll ever go on that flight given that it's quite far off the beaten path being Germany based and that Rwandair from India probably is not conducive to a smooth Chinese visa process. And unfortunately also at this stage, I am quite busy here in Europe so that I don't have anything planned in the region in the foreseeable future and the farthest currently booked is Switzerland.
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:43 pm

berari wrote:
And where is this A330 talk coming from? The B787s serve the right purpose and are not much larger than A330s.

It was back in 2010. Will try to find the thread posted on A.net later:
"But with the American manufacturer delaying delivery, apparently after a decision to experiment on carbon composite body proved problematic, Kenya Airways’ first alternative at Airbus is the A330 while the second alternative is A350. "

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... us-346868/
https://www.nation.co.ke/business/996-6 ... index.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/ozabs-k ... F620110414
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article ... t-delivery
https://www.eturbonews.com/36556/aviati ... and-boeing

LGAviation wrote:
Yes, I really mean Mumbai and Guangzhou :D
China and India are far less interconnected than one would think which is partly due to restrictive bilaterals and partly due to lack of economic ties due to poor diplomatic relations.
Mumbai sees service to PEK on CA and PVG on AI (there are more cargo flights). This is why I was surprised that they got fifth freedom rights on the route because it's most certainly not the tenth time an African airline gets rights on SIN-KUL or BKK-HKG. This is a real opportunity if done right and if Rwandair manages to overcome biases in the region (from what I've seen on trip reports and on my only ever Rwandair trip betwen Entebbe and Kigali, the product lives up to Chinese Indian standards.

Extremely interesting, many thanks for these explanations! I've learnt something new today :smile: !
What are the main biases in Asia/India?
You went to Djibouti last year? How was it? Not tempted to fly Air Djibouti :lol: ?
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:56 pm

:arrow: Ethiopian Airlines from June 2019 is increasing service to Japan and Korea, as the airline filed 5th weekly service for Addis Ababa – Seoul Incheon – Tokyo Narita route. From Addis Ababa, the new flight operates on Mondays, from 17JUN19. Boeing 787-8 operates this route.

ET672 ADD2325 – 1645+1ICN1745+1 – 2025+1NRT 787 x35
ET673 NRT2125 – 0005+1ICN0105+1 – 0705+1ADD 787 x46

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... =ethiopian

:arrow: The runway at Kisumu International Airport (KIS) in Kenya will be partially closed, from Monday 18 to Thursday 28 March 2019 from 19:00 to 06:45 due to refurbishment work, announced the Kenya Airport Authority (KAA).
The closure will be total on Tuesday March 19th. "All passengers intending to travel through Kisumu International Airport between March 18 and 20, 2019 are asked to contact their respective airlines for further information," KAA added.
During the refurbishment period, Kenya Airways will not operate its Embraer E-190 aircraft due to the shortened runway. The company's flights to Kisumu will be operated by the Jambojet Q400 between March 20th and 27th.
the city's airport is serviced daily by seven airlines: Kenya Airways, Jambojet, Fly540, Britex Airlines, Freedom Airline Express, Silverstone Airlines and Safarilink.

https://newsaero.info/airlines/1648
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LGAviation
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:02 pm

eastafspot wrote:
berari wrote:
And where is this A330 talk coming from? The B787s serve the right purpose and are not much larger than A330s.

It was back in 2010. Will try to find the thread posted on A.net later:
"But with the American manufacturer delaying delivery, apparently after a decision to experiment on carbon composite body proved problematic, Kenya Airways’ first alternative at Airbus is the A330 while the second alternative is A350. "

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... us-346868/
https://www.nation.co.ke/business/996-6 ... index.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/ozabs-k ... F620110414
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article ... t-delivery
https://www.eturbonews.com/36556/aviati ... and-boeing

LGAviation wrote:
Yes, I really mean Mumbai and Guangzhou :D
China and India are far less interconnected than one would think which is partly due to restrictive bilaterals and partly due to lack of economic ties due to poor diplomatic relations.
Mumbai sees service to PEK on CA and PVG on AI (there are more cargo flights). This is why I was surprised that they got fifth freedom rights on the route because it's most certainly not the tenth time an African airline gets rights on SIN-KUL or BKK-HKG. This is a real opportunity if done right and if Rwandair manages to overcome biases in the region (from what I've seen on trip reports and on my only ever Rwandair trip betwen Entebbe and Kigali, the product lives up to Chinese Indian standards.

Extremely interesting, many thanks for these explanations! I've learnt something new today :smile: !
What are the main biases in Asia/India?
You went to Djibouti last year? How was it? Not tempted to fly Air Djibouti :lol: ?


Being neither African nor Chinese myself, I am going to be cautious about what I say here. During my past stays in China, I had the impression that the population there was much more open towards American/European influence than they were towards African influence and I could see an African airline on such a route struggling to get market share in CAN.
That being said, I have never been to Guangzhou and am aware of it being China's most African city which is underscored by its service on KQ to Nairobi and ET to Addis. Then again, as I said before services between mainland China and India are prone to grow in the next years if things go normal and Rwandair could capitalise on that opening up a route to Guangzhou ex Mumbai (which is historically was far more connected to Hong Kong for Commonwealth reasons).


As for Djibouti, it was a weird but interesting place. I have personally never had a more difficult border control than in Djibouti (hilariously they asked me to put my phone with the boarding pass first leg of the entire journey in the webcam because I only had a paper version of the onward boarding pass to Djibouti for them to scan) and the country is dominated by their foreign bases 'industry' which went so far that I met German and Spanish soldiers in our hotel wich were stationed there because the French base (opposite the American base) apparently lacked space. I have found the people to be very reserved about foreigners and photography especially (although once you talk to them more they warm up) and have found the country to be far safer than I expected (I walked through town unaccompanied for kilometres and all hassles that I had were private citizens informing me that photography in the whole country would be prohibited, not that I would take pictures of them). The airport is super interesting in that you see lots of UN and military flights with a great view of the American base from the departure lounge. And I saw the Air Djibouti plane which was parked for the whole duration of my stay in the exact same sport and did not feel the urge to get aboard it :D I would've been perfectly fine with taking the ET plane back home over TK and spending a day in Addis to see how the city develops but the Air Djibouti plane and me that was not supposed to happen. The flight to Turkey had some spectacular views flying along the river Nile.
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:04 pm

LGAviation wrote:
Being neither African nor Chinese myself, I am going to be cautious about what I say here. During my past stays in China, I had the impression that the population there was much more open towards American/European influence than they were towards African influence and I could see an African airline on such a route struggling to get market share in CAN.
That being said, I have never been to Guangzhou and am aware of it being China's most African city which is underscored by its service on KQ to Nairobi and ET to Addis. Then again, as I said before services between mainland China and India are prone to grow in the next years if things go normal and Rwandair could capitalise on that opening up a route to Guangzhou ex Mumbai (which is historically was far more connected to Hong Kong for Commonwealth reasons).


As for Djibouti, it was a weird but interesting place. I have personally never had a more difficult border control than in Djibouti (hilariously they asked me to put my phone with the boarding pass first leg of the entire journey in the webcam because I only had a paper version of the onward boarding pass to Djibouti for them to scan) and the country is dominated by their foreign bases 'industry' which went so far that I met German and Spanish soldiers in our hotel wich were stationed there because the French base (opposite the American base) apparently lacked space. I have found the people to be very reserved about foreigners and photography especially (although once you talk to them more they warm up) and have found the country to be far safer than I expected (I walked through town unaccompanied for kilometres and all hassles that I had were private citizens informing me that photography in the whole country would be prohibited, not that I would take pictures of them). The airport is super interesting in that you see lots of UN and military flights with a great view of the American base from the departure lounge. And I saw the Air Djibouti plane which was parked for the whole duration of my stay in the exact same sport and did not feel the urge to get aboard it :D I would've been perfectly fine with taking the ET plane back home over TK and spending a day in Addis to see how the city develops but the Air Djibouti plane and me that was not supposed to happen. The flight to Turkey had some spectacular views flying along the river Nile.


How are the diplomatic ties between India and China?
Even CZ flies to NBO.
Wow quite unique first hand experience :) , what was wrong with the BP print out??? I've heard about the photography issue and you confirm this! When you said the country was safer than what you expected it made me wonder if it's like large cities in South Africa where you can see a balance in ethnicity: half people with caucasian origin and the other half black/Afro?
During my last KQ ADD-NBO flight (with a stop in JIB), exclusively western passengers were getting off/boarding at this stop, maybe it was similar on your TK flights?
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LGAviation
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:21 pm

eastafspot wrote:
How are the diplomatic ties between India and China?
Even CZ flies to NBO.


Respectful but bad. They have territorial disputes in the Himalayas, Pakistan and China are too close for India's taste.

eastafspot wrote:
Wow quite unique first hand experience :) , what was wrong with the BP print out??? I've heard about the photography issue and you confirm this! When you said the country was safer than what you expected it made me wonder if it's like large cities in South Africa where you can see a balance in ethnicity: half people with caucasian origin and the other half black/Afro?
During my last KQ ADD-NBO flight (with a stop in JIB), exclusively western passengers were getting off/boarding at this stop, maybe it was similar on your TK flights?


What an interesting stop that is for KQ to make on the route.

Djiboutian officials apparently need to scan your boarding passes into the country and that apparently includes all boarding passes, so the conversation went a little like that (all in French)
"Show me your boarding pass."
"Here you go".
"Sir, you are not Turkish! Where is the boarding pass from your first flight?"
"I only have it on my phone"
"Okay, hold that in your camera" and then he took my passport and I had to wait for half an hour only to be let in.

As for the safety issue, it felt much safer than Johannesburg or Cape Town for me to walk around in that I guess no one expected the odd Westenr tourist walking around town - from my understnding American soldiers dont leave base at all and other soldiers arent allowed to do so on there own and arent allowed to use taxis - and thus no one was planning on robbing me (but no, it's just a small town and the biggest issue is photography really which I think is a pitty as I love photography which I understand locals might find odd and without it no one will see their country). The city is paranoid though regarding security with checks everywhere but they seem to work.

The majority of passengers getting off clearly went there because they had to and by far the biggest propotrtion originated in France. I'd say most were military connected and it was a 80/20 split Whites/Africans and virtually 95/5 men/women. Djibouti is a noticeably smaller population so Djiboutian nationals cant be that big of a group although there was one local in a rather flashy golden leopard outfit who also only stayed a weekend (sorry caught my eye). I dont think there were any Somalilandd nationals aboard which I found odd since I wouldve imagined it being a gateway to the country not just for UN workers.
The continuing crowd to Mogadishu was 50/50 Westerners/Somalis in my memory as it is way tooo often in African countries which are still in the earlier stages of their development. I am always happy to see ADD turn more African every time I go there in that it means that the economy on the continent is becoming more and more self-reliant.
2018: ADD CPH DAR DEN DME DUB FRA HAH HAM IST JIB KEF LYR MEL OSL PEK PKC PVG RAK STN SVO SYD YVR
 
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:15 am

LGAviation wrote:
Djiboutian officials apparently need to scan your boarding passes into the country and that apparently includes all boarding passes, so the conversation went a little like that (all in French)
"Show me your boarding pass."
"Here you go".
"Sir, you are not Turkish! Where is the boarding pass from your first flight?"
"I only have it on my phone"
"Okay, hold that in your camera" and then he took my passport and I had to wait for half an hour only to be let in.

As for the safety issue, it felt much safer than Johannesburg or Cape Town for me to walk around in that I guess no one expected the odd Westenr tourist walking around town - from my understnding American soldiers dont leave base at all and other soldiers arent allowed to do so on there own and arent allowed to use taxis - and thus no one was planning on robbing me (but no, it's just a small town and the biggest issue is photography really which I think is a pitty as I love photography which I understand locals might find odd and without it no one will see their country). The city is paranoid though regarding security with checks everywhere but they seem to work.

The majority of passengers getting off clearly went there because they had to and by far the biggest propotrtion originated in France. I'd say most were military connected and it was a 80/20 split Whites/Africans and virtually 95/5 men/women. Djibouti is a noticeably smaller population so Djiboutian nationals cant be that big of a group although there was one local in a rather flashy golden leopard outfit who also only stayed a weekend (sorry caught my eye). I dont think there were any Somalilandd nationals aboard which I found odd since I wouldve imagined it being a gateway to the country not just for UN workers.
The continuing crowd to Mogadishu was 50/50 Westerners/Somalis in my memory as it is way tooo often in African countries which are still in the earlier stages of their development. I am always happy to see ADD turn more African every time I go there in that it means that the economy on the continent is becoming more and more self-reliant.

Once again LGAviation, many thanks for providing such great details :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
What an odd process upon arriving, thank God you had it on your phone!
Considering the costly tourist visa fee, no surprise you were the only one strolling around in this off beaten path destination! Yes true, JNB and CPT are not a heaven for sure, Good to know there are only "locals/civilians" in the streets. Does the general paranoia come from sharing borders with Somalia, Eritrea and Yemen on the other side of the sea and maybe a risk of massive influx of refugees? Is it one big city/capital and the rest desert or there are some small villages (with tribes) around? Maybe the local was the leader of an important chiefdom ;)
For airlines, JIB must be very a profitable destination, with AF having a direct flight and TK combining it with its cash cow Mogadishu tag...
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LGAviation
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:20 am

eastafspot wrote:
LGAviation wrote:
Djiboutian officials apparently need to scan your boarding passes into the country and that apparently includes all boarding passes, so the conversation went a little like that (all in French)
"Show me your boarding pass."
"Here you go".
"Sir, you are not Turkish! Where is the boarding pass from your first flight?"
"I only have it on my phone"
"Okay, hold that in your camera" and then he took my passport and I had to wait for half an hour only to be let in.

As for the safety issue, it felt much safer than Johannesburg or Cape Town for me to walk around in that I guess no one expected the odd Westenr tourist walking around town - from my understnding American soldiers dont leave base at all and other soldiers arent allowed to do so on there own and arent allowed to use taxis - and thus no one was planning on robbing me (but no, it's just a small town and the biggest issue is photography really which I think is a pitty as I love photography which I understand locals might find odd and without it no one will see their country). The city is paranoid though regarding security with checks everywhere but they seem to work.

The majority of passengers getting off clearly went there because they had to and by far the biggest propotrtion originated in France. I'd say most were military connected and it was a 80/20 split Whites/Africans and virtually 95/5 men/women. Djibouti is a noticeably smaller population so Djiboutian nationals cant be that big of a group although there was one local in a rather flashy golden leopard outfit who also only stayed a weekend (sorry caught my eye). I dont think there were any Somalilandd nationals aboard which I found odd since I wouldve imagined it being a gateway to the country not just for UN workers.
The continuing crowd to Mogadishu was 50/50 Westerners/Somalis in my memory as it is way tooo often in African countries which are still in the earlier stages of their development. I am always happy to see ADD turn more African every time I go there in that it means that the economy on the continent is becoming more and more self-reliant.

Once again LGAviation, many thanks for providing such great details :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
What an odd process upon arriving, thank God you had it on your phone!
Considering the costly tourist visa fee, no surprise you were the only one strolling around in this off beaten path destination! Yes true, JNB and CPT are not a heaven for sure, Good to know there are only "locals/civilians" in the streets. Does the general paranoia come from sharing borders with Somalia, Eritrea and Yemen on the other side of the sea and maybe a risk of massive influx of refugees? Is it one big city/capital and the rest desert or there are some small villages (with tribes) around? Maybe the local was the leader of an important chiefdom ;)
For airlines, JIB must be very a profitable destination, with AF having a direct flight and TK combining it with its cash cow Mogadishu tag...


Again, all I am going to say know is just my assumption from the outside.

Djibouti is a tiny country surrounded by crises. There is or was the Ethiopian-Eritrean conflict in the North which provided them with the lucrative opportunity of acting as sole port town for the nation of Ethiopia (which also made it attractive for China which led to the establishment of a Chinese base and which led Djibouti to try and boycott the rapprochement between Ethiopia and Eritrea because they feared a decline in business). There is the Yemeni conflict to the east which necessitates the American military presence in the region, you see lots of American military aircraft departing the airport going god knows where. There is Somalia in the South which provided Djibouti with an opportunity to be the base for European anti-piracy operations (also of interest to the Gulf states and China given it's location on the entrance to the Red Sea and the Suez) and now for UN, American and other international counter-Al Shabab and aid operations.

France also still has a vested interest in Djibouti as it serves as a strategic stopover point on the way to the Indian ocean territories.

Al this put together, Djibouti sees safety and security for foreign operations as its main commodity and will do everything possible to comply with any requirements any foreign powers have. I have never seen so much razor wire and walls in a city and as a local without influence it has to be an awkward life but some people I would imagine will benefit a lot from this setup. I am not sure how they deal with refugee pressure from the Somali side as it is hard to tell from the outside whether locals are Somalis or Djiboutis and the topic was difficult to bring up. I dont think there is a significant influx from Yemen.

As you suspect though, I gathered from my conversations there and the limited things I saw that this security is only maintained in the capital (which is extremely small and quiet by African standards as well as on the road to the fortified Somaliland border (which can be seen from the airport) and to the Ethiopian border. The desert areas especially towards the closed Eritrean border are off limits.

As for airline operations, it certainly is a profitable destination although I would suspect that they have differing motives:

ET will likely be the carrier of choice for the Chinese diaspora and will carry some of the limited French and American business ties
AF with its few times a week service will be the airline of choice especially for the large French military presence (France even has two camps to my knowledge, one at the airport and one in the most luxurious and safe area of downtown right by the Kempinski
TK also uses JIB as a crew change point from what I have seen where they also fuel up so that they can make Mogadishu work without anyone actually having to leave the airport on the TK side

And yes the visa fee is pretty steep, although I somehow managed to automatically get it at half price since I stayed for less than three days (they only do evisas now and they only work through chrome). But that's a trend I tend to observe a lot in Africa nowadays, where understandably but sadly visa fees (I tend to refer to them as entry fees until I see the genuine possibility of anyone being turned away at a border which in a lot of countries in the region I have yet to see happening) have hiked from the former going rates of $35-60 to $100 or more in some places (I also disliked the price of the new Angolan evisa which I used in December at $120). From what I have seen, West Africa slowly opening up non-embassy visas as an option is particularly bad for this.
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:38 pm

LGAviation wrote:
Again, all I am going to say know is just my assumption from the outside.

Djibouti is a tiny country surrounded by crises. There is or was the Ethiopian-Eritrean conflict in the North which provided them with the lucrative opportunity of acting as sole port town for the nation of Ethiopia (which also made it attractive for China which led to the establishment of a Chinese base and which led Djibouti to try and boycott the rapprochement between Ethiopia and Eritrea because they feared a decline in business). There is the Yemeni conflict to the east which necessitates the American military presence in the region, you see lots of American military aircraft departing the airport going god knows where. There is Somalia in the South which provided Djibouti with an opportunity to be the base for European anti-piracy operations (also of interest to the Gulf states and China given it's location on the entrance to the Red Sea and the Suez) and now for UN, American and other international counter-Al Shabab and aid operations.

France also still has a vested interest in Djibouti as it serves as a strategic stopover point on the way to the Indian ocean territories.


Ethiopia and Eritrea kind of "agreed" on a fair economic deal to overcome the long last dispute. More to come in the future!
Would you be surprised to know that French president E. Macron visited East Africa last week (Djibouti, Ethiopia and Kenya) and he warned of Chinese risk to African sovereignty!

Macron arrived in Djibouti looking to reassert French influence in a former colony on the Horn of Africa where China has built a military base and invested billions of dollars in infrastructure.
The French leader, who will also visit Kenya and Ethiopia on his current tour, cautioned that conditions attached to Chinese loans could be dangerous in the long term.
“China is a great world power and has expanded its presence in many countries, especially in Africa, in recent years,” he said alongside Djibouti President Ismail mar Guelleh.
“But what can look good in the short term ... can often end up being bad over the medium to long term.
“I wouldn’t want a new generation of international investments to encroach on our historical partners’ sovereignty or weaken their economies,” Macron added.


http://en.rfi.fr/africa/20190312-france ... outi-visit
https://www.france24.com/en/20190312-ma ... -expansion

Do you think he is acting right - not for France, but for the interests of Djiboutian, Ethiopian and Kenyan people ?


LGAviation wrote:
Al this put together, Djibouti sees safety and security for foreign operations as its main commodity and will do everything possible to comply with any requirements any foreign powers have. I have never seen so much razor wire and walls in a city and as a local without influence it has to be an awkward life but some people I would imagine will benefit a lot from this setup. I am not sure how they deal with refugee pressure from the Somali side as it is hard to tell from the outside whether locals are Somalis or Djiboutis and the topic was difficult to bring up. I dont think there is a significant influx from Yemen.

You frame the situation pretty well, looks like a "ghetto" on the other (good) side. How easy/hard is to travel through the country/countryside if you had to? You said there are some roadblocks/checkpoints, only in the city centre/CDB if any or in the suburbs too? If some people eat khat, they might have been refugees/immigrants right :scratchchin: ?

LGAviation wrote:
As you suspect though, I gathered from my conversations there and the limited things I saw that this security is only maintained in the capital (which is extremely small and quiet by African standards as well as on the road to the fortified Somaliland border (which can be seen from the airport) and to the Ethiopian border. The desert areas especially towards the closed Eritrean border are off limits.

It must have been easy with the German soldiers staying at your hotel, what about the rest of the time? English? Off limits, huh? Btw did you carry a camera around your neck?
Some regions must be prohibited to just approach, let alone to visit ...

LGAviation wrote:
As for airline operations, it certainly is a profitable destination although I would suspect that they have differing motives:

ET will likely be the carrier of choice for the Chinese diaspora and will carry some of the limited French and American business ties
AF with its few times a week service will be the airline of choice especially for the large French military presence (France even has two camps to my knowledge, one at the airport and one in the most luxurious and safe area of downtown right by the Kempinski
TK also uses JIB as a crew change point from what I have seen where they also fuel up so that they can make Mogadishu work without anyone actually having to leave the airport on the TK side

Did not know about TK crew – thanks! Indeed, which sane company would dare to send its employees overnighting in MCQ? LOL
Do you think QR coming to somalia will be a game changer? Or maybe a step forward before applying to JIB?

LGAviation wrote:
And yes the visa fee is pretty steep, although I somehow managed to automatically get it at half price since I stayed for less than three days (they only do evisas now and they only work through chrome). But that's a trend I tend to observe a lot in Africa nowadays, where understandably but sadly visa fees (I tend to refer to them as entry fees until I see the genuine possibility of anyone being turned away at a border which in a lot of countries in the region I have yet to see happening) have hiked from the former going rates of $35-60 to $100 or more in some places (I also disliked the price of the new Angolan evisa which I used in December at $120). From what I have seen, West Africa slowly opening up non-embassy visas as an option is particularly bad for this.

EUR75 or 35 for 3 days? What a rip off!!! At least, you were safe so I would consider this as being in Europe/USA/Japan no?
Anyway for the visa issue in Africa, we shall discuss this tomorrow, you've just opened the Pandora box ... :stirthepot:

:wave:
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:19 pm

eastafspot wrote:
Do you think he is acting right - not for France, but for the interests of Djiboutian, Ethiopian and Kenyan people


It's a tough question for every government in the region whether to try and be self-sufficient or whether to pursue close alignment with Europe or China. I'm not in denial that China right now is a lot bolder in its Africa policy and gets things done in short-term (just look at Addis) in a much more comprehensive manner than Europeans and I see how politicians are always tempted by short-term success. In the long run though I dont think being a liberal democracy if that is the goal and close alignment with China go together easily. Djibouti is interesting in pursuing ties with both.[

quote="eastafspot"]t must have been easy with the German soldiers staying at your hotel, what about the rest of the time? English? Off limits, huh? Btw did you carry a camera around your neck?
Some regions must be prohibited to just approach, let alone to visit ...[/quote]

I did carry my camera in a plastic bag as I usually do (outside Rwanda) so as to have an option to hide it. In the city, nothing that you could want to see is off-limits although tourists arent too encouraged around the bases around the airport perimetre. English mostly works as does French and if you speak both, you're fine.

eastafspot wrote:
Did not know about TK crew – thanks! Indeed, which sane company would dare to send its employees overnighting in MCQ? LOL
Do you think QR coming to somalia will be a game changer? Or maybe a step forward before applying to JIB?


TK crew also stayed at our hotel it was a nice chat in the morning.
If QR gets into Somalia, that will hurt TK although TK has some inherent demand with the Turkish government being very active in Somalia with development projects. TK also has the advantage of offering Dubai which also in Djibouti is THE regional destination for shopping trips, healthcare visits and business in general.

eastafspot wrote:
EUR75 or 35 for 3 days? What a rip off!!! At least, you were safe so I would consider this as being in Europe/USA/Japan no?


I think it was $60 in the end for 3 days and by all normal standards a rip-off - especially considering the subsequent entry process. But to my great surprise there was a Spanish tourist group on our flight as well which I have no idea what they were doing there, I honestly thought they must've gotten on the wrong flight. Considewring Western visa fees, it's not that bad but still it doesnt encourage tourism.
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:01 pm

:arrow: Ethiopian 737 pilots followed Boeing guidelines before ET302 crash:
https://www.nation.co.ke/news/africa/Et ... 28-rer9fb/

:arrow: Ethiopian Airlines Toronto aircraft changes from mid-June 2019
ET502 ADD2255 – 0510+1DUB0555+1 – 0825+1YYZ 350 x27
ET503 YYZ1100 – 0700+1ADD 350 x13
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:10 pm

LGAviation wrote:
Djibouti is interesting in pursuing ties with both.

You are very smart with a such answer :biggrin: , but true better to not put all the eggs in one basket!

LGAviation wrote:
I did carry my camera in a plastic bag as I usually do (outside Rwanda) so as to have an option to hide it. In the city, nothing that you could want to see is off-limits although tourists arent too encouraged around the bases around the airport perimetre. English mostly works as does French and if you speak both, you're fine.

Interesting tip :thumbsup: , could be useful for the future – may I add one? If officials/officers want to see what you've just taken in photos make sure that 1) you have random harmless photos taken and loaded in your camera without memory card (usually a few like 4-5) and then 2) the most difficult part – you may need to practise this move at home beforehand – is to remove the memory card by the time you get yelled/shouted at and hide it in your hand then pocket or wherever else...
When you mention Rwanda, do you mean the rural/touristic places only or even in Kigali/large towns?

LGAviation wrote:
TK crew also stayed at our hotel it was a nice chat in the morning.
If QR gets into Somalia, that will hurt TK although TK has some inherent demand with the Turkish government being very active in Somalia with development projects. TK also has the advantage of offering Dubai which also in Djibouti is THE regional destination for shopping trips, healthcare visits and business in general.

Safe accommodation in Djibouti might be scarse for crews, hence you were lucky to meet a cosmopolitan population :tongue2: .
That's all very correct and I can only concur with you albeit Qatar made some recent investments in Somalia - one of them (rumor maybe) was to relaunch the national airline...

LGAviation wrote:
I think it was $60 in the end for 3 days and by all normal standards a rip-off - especially considering the subsequent entry process. But to my great surprise there was a Spanish tourist group on our flight as well which I have no idea what they were doing there, I honestly thought they must've gotten on the wrong flight. Considewring Western visa fees, it's not that bad but still it doesnt encourage tourism.

No Spanish base yet in JIB??? LOL
You must be kidding for the visa fee, right??? :scratchchin: – otherwise please feel free share you hints to get a such low price.
Below, the official link states that you must pay EUR 80 or EUR 120 for an e-visa:
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/conse ... ti/#entree

LGAviation wrote:
I saw the Air Djibouti plane which was parked for the whole duration of my stay

By any chance, do you remember if the aircraft you saw is the same as the one featured (at the end):
here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1418693
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:34 pm

eastafspot wrote:
but true better to not put all the eggs in one basket!


Exactly, when you're a country and pick either the EU or China as your sun, you will never be than one out of a million stars to them and in all honesty, if there's anything going on they won't be there for you unless you continue to have something to offer to them that your opponent can't.

eastafspot wrote:
nteresting tip , could be useful for the future – may I add one? If officials/officers want to see what you've just taken in photos make sure that 1) you have random harmless photos taken and loaded in your camera without memory card (usually a few like 4-5) and then 2) the most difficult part – you may need to practise this move at home beforehand – is to remove the memory card by the time you get yelled/shouted at and hide it in your hand then pocket or wherever else...
When you mention Rwanda, do you mean the rural/touristic places only or even in Kigali/large towns?


That's smart, thanks! I mentioned Rwanda because I usually use your average African market single-use plastic bags in the black variety though to look as inconspicuous as possible because I feel a camera bag would be even worse (I use a regular sized Canon normally) and I know that they are banned in Rwanda. The last thing you want when you're already in trouble for taking pictures to give them another reason.

That being said, I saw a camera being forgotten in Rwanda in a taxi and getting retrieved by going back to the airport and having the head guy at the taxis find the actual driver and not wanting more than a $10 tip per person for that, that was incredible and left me stunned as I feel that's not how that wouldve ended in Europe! I absolutely loved everything about Rwanda on my sole trip there (Kigali, the genocide memorial sites at the churches on the route to Burundi and a quick trip across the border to Burundi).

eastafspot wrote:
That's all very correct and I can only concur with you albeit Qatar made some recent investments in Somalia - one of them (rumor maybe) was to relaunch the national airline...


I wonder if Somalia is ready for an own airline but Qatar can use allies and afford to blow some money so let's see if it helps. I am sure a Qatar flight can't make things worse.


eastafspot wrote:
No Spanish base yet in JIB??? LOL
You must be kidding for the visa fee, right??? – otherwise please feel free share you hints to get a such low price.
Below, the official link states that you must pay EUR 80 or EUR 120 for an e-visa:
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/conse ... ti/#entree



:D :D :D https://www.evisa.gouv.dj/#/faq that website gave me that rate and worked only in French and kept changing my purpose back from tourisme to affaires and in the end asked for €60 because it was so short. Now in the FAQs, it says something about €23.

I arrived in the first couple of months of the evisa and everything was still confusing and i had to look at the french websites to verify that the link i have in here is legit. My visa from there worked.

eastafspot wrote:
By any chance, do you remember if the aircraft you saw is the same as the one featured (at the end):
here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1418693


Yes, that's it! Same exact spot still! So I guess there we have your answer! How lucky they are not to have too much traffic to need that prime spot for operational aircraft
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:55 pm

It seems that Ethiopian will open MRS via MXP 3x a week from 4 July 2019 in B788. Flights are bookable.

GVA will see a 4th weekly flight (on Saturdays) from mid June, via FCO.
 
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:57 am

I see ET keeps on adding one stop flights/connections to Europe but does anyone know which and when destinations were rescheduled to be terminator services?
 
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:43 pm

:arrow: China Southern Airlines, which operates the Guangzhou-Nairobi route, plans to upgrade to four weekly flights (from two) in the second half of this year.
According to statistics, passenger traffic between China and Kenya continues to grow. In 2018, more than 130,000 passengers were transported between Kenya and China, an increase of 7.8% year-on-year.

https://newsaero.info/accordaerienvisa/ ... ?true=1679

****************************************

xorrygva wrote:
It seems that Ethiopian will open MRS via MXP 3x a week from 4 July 2019 in B788. Flights are bookable.

GVA will see a 4th weekly flight (on Saturdays) from mid June, via FCO.

Wow :eyepopping: , what an excellent news! Being myself based at only 1h20 drive (or 2h in train) to MRS :hyper:
Many thanks for sharing this news as I'm fed up to back track (CDG/AMS/LHR) to go to Africa...
You've made my day :smile:
As said in the French routes thread, ET might rely on the huge Comorian and Malagasy diasporas in MRS and some tourists (TNR, East Africa, Seychelles, South Africa).

Blerg wrote:
I see ET keeps on adding one stop flights/connections to Europe but does anyone know which and when destinations were rescheduled to be terminator services?

It keeps changing each an every IATA season to be honest... :duck:
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:18 pm

LGAviation wrote:
Exactly, when you're a country and pick either the EU or China as your sun, you will never be than one out of a million stars to them and in all honesty, if there's anything going on they won't be there for you unless you continue to have something to offer to them that your opponent can't.

Yes, except that China is ( and to some extents Turkey and Israel) clearly taking over and cannibalizing the African market – not for the best!

LGAviation wrote:
That's smart, thanks! I mentioned Rwanda because I usually use your average African market single-use plastic bags in the black variety though to look as inconspicuous as possible because I feel a camera bag would be even worse (I use a regular sized Canon normally) and I know that they are banned in Rwanda. The last thing you want when you're already in trouble for taking pictures to give them another reason.

Good on you to mention “prohibited in Rwanda” - however, sorry to undermine you, a mzungu (=not in a pejorative way) can not go unnoticed in Africa – except in Botswana/Zimbabwe/Namibia and SA.
If you like photography + risky countries, indeed you should carry 2 camera types, one excellent mobile phone to use also for kind of selfies in tricky situations, and also a discret but powerful P&S – Sony is doing a great job in that range!

LGAviation wrote:
That being said, I saw a camera being forgotten in Rwanda in a taxi and getting retrieved by going back to the airport and having the head guy at the taxis find the actual driver and not wanting more than a $10 tip per person for that, that was incredible and left me stunned as I feel that's not how that wouldve ended in Europe! I absolutely loved everything about Rwanda on my sole trip there (Kigali, the genocide memorial sites at the churches on the route to Burundi and a quick trip across the border to Burundi).

Seriously :eyepopping: :eyepopping: :eyepopping: ???
Ok there are a few stories like yours every now and then, like a moto taxi who found an enveloppe containing 10,000 usd from an Ethiopian business man (going to the airport) and who went to the airport Police to hand over the enveloppe.
The reasons here are, 1) the country is very small so hard to flee anywhere and 2) the punishment to get caught is so harsh than it's better to use good judgement. Not like in SA where they do accept tips for any petty issue from packing to boarding meh ... !
Nice to see visit Burundi, any issue at the border? Those guys after the barriers (officials/ciers or other) are more hungry than a simba in the Masai Mara park during drought – you went to the famous lake? Why not further south to the capital or the beach?

LGAviation wrote:
I wonder if Somalia is ready for an own airline but Qatar can use allies and afford to blow some money so let's see if it helps. I am sure a Qatar flight can't make things worse.

To which allies do you think about?

LGAviation wrote:
:D :D :D https://www.evisa.gouv.dj/#/faq that website gave me that rate and worked only in French and kept changing my purpose back from tourisme to affaires and in the end asked for €60 because it was so short. Now in the FAQs, it says something about €23.
I arrived in the first couple of months of the evisa and everything was still confusing and i had to look at the french websites to verify that the link i have in here is legit. My visa from there worked.

Many thanks Bro'! Very useful info! How long in advance did you apply for the visa? EUR 23 for processing the visa FEE certainly LOL!

LGAviation wrote:
Yes, that's it! Same exact spot still! So I guess there we have your answer! How lucky they are not to have too much traffic to need that prime spot for operational aircraft

For any avgeek, it's on the to-do list if flying! The military bases might be an other story though like a bit busier... ;-)
Have you read the explanation of the operator(s) at the very end?
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:00 am

eastafspot wrote:
Yes, except that China is ( and to some extents Turkey and Israel) clearly taking over and cannibalizing the African market – not for the best!


I totally agree. TK does wonders in connecting a country like Somalia to the world and China does wonders in paving roads - but in the long run, this will keep domestic airlines from growing and the domestic private sector from developing - it's a tough call to make

eastafspot wrote:
Good on you to mention “prohibited in Rwanda” - however, sorry to undermine you, a mzungu (=not in a pejorative way) can not go unnoticed in Africa – except in Botswana/Zimbabwe/Namibia and SA.
If you like photography + risky countries, indeed you should carry 2 camera types, one excellent mobile phone to use also for kind of selfies in tricky situations, and also a discret but powerful P&S – Sony is doing a great job in that range!


I couldn't agree more! and in some of those places in Southern Africa, it's not even advisable to blend in tooo much with the local white population if you dont want to get trapped in whole new issues.

In East Africa, there's two kinds of white people: Those that look like they know their way around and those that don't (and a camera tends to put you into category 2 which is why I like to hide it). Then again in Rwanda,I did not want to use it so as to not give the police an excuse to stop me anyway :D

eastafspot wrote:
Seriously ???
Ok there are a few stories like yours every now and then, like a moto taxi who found an enveloppe containing 10,000 usd from an Ethiopian business man (going to the airport) and who went to the airport Police to hand over the enveloppe.
The reasons here are, 1) the country is very small so hard to flee anywhere and 2) the punishment to get caught is so harsh than it's better to use good judgement. Not like in SA where they do accept tips for any petty issue from packing to boarding meh ... !


I am being 100% serious there and yes I could see how not all motivations that are set there for this behaviour are to be approved of. Plus, since it was a camera and not a mobile phone, the chances of getting caught in the act of trying to monetise it wouldve also been higher (likely the guy also wasn't aware of what the market value of said camera was) but I was impressed nonetheless.


eastafspot wrote:
Nice to see visit Burundi, any issue at the border? Those guys after the barriers (officials/ciers or other) are more hungry than a simba in the Masai Mara park during drought – you went to the famous lake? Why not further south to the capital or the beach?


So let me explain how this came about. Initially, the trip was to be a rather brief Uganda & Rwanda trip with a brief stopover to see the city again in Addis and in Kigali we had a local driver who was phenomenal who showed us around and showed us the south of Rwanda and then at some point overheard me talking about the Burundian border (which at the time did not have visas on arrivals) and he was like do you want to see it (for an extra $20 which then turned out to be a $100 when we wanted to get out of the car which was settled at $50 TIA I guess) and we were like sure. Arriving at the border he greeted the local Rwandan soldiers who took our passports (at least we had multiple entry Rwandan visas) and then joined us for a quick drive over the border without even stopping for the Burundian officials :D There was an old UN guy there as well with his guys, so maybe that's why they didnt make a fuss about that mini invasion but we only went a little bit into Burundi before turning back because that was in the middle of the 2015 events there.

eastafspot wrote:
To which allies do you think about?


Any country that supports Qatar is a good country for them and Somalia has manpower that you can recruit for all kinds of purposes plus it's very strategically located for GCC oil exports and a base in Puntland (although not realistic for now) would be an incredible asset to have for Qatar to balance the Yemeni situation and to have leverage in the blocakede) so having somewhat of an influence in Somalia would be helpful for Qatar.

eastafspot wrote:
Many thanks Bro'! Very useful info! How long in advance did you apply for the visa? EUR 23 for processing the visa FEE certainly LOL!


I did it the full 60 days in advance that it let you do it at the time and it only worked on Google Chrome and only in French no matter which language you picked and it toook a couple of days...Still worked a lot better than the new Angolan eVisa portal. But I guess you'll find out in the end of the process what today's rates will be.
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:17 am

Blerg wrote:
I see ET keeps on adding one stop flights/connections to Europe but does anyone know which and when destinations were rescheduled to be terminator services?


Most of ET's European destinations were at one point one or two stop services. The only one that I can think of that hasn't been has been Moscow, and now Istanbul. Otherwise the rest were continuing on to another city or they are reached with one or more stops.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:56 am

berari wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I see ET keeps on adding one stop flights/connections to Europe but does anyone know which and when destinations were rescheduled to be terminator services?


Most of ET's European destinations were at one point one or two stop services. The only one that I can think of that hasn't been has been Moscow, and now Istanbul. Otherwise the rest were continuing on to another city or they are reached with one or more stops.


Thanks for clarifying this point!
Mapping ET all destinations could reveal some amazing surprises in their huge moving network. It presents some very advantages though!

Berari, if you want and, do agree of course, doing a weekly news list for Ethiopian Airlines routes/changes could also increase the network value of this site!.
Of course, you are free to comment or adjust or anything!

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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:17 am

In a short few years, Ethiopian has installed itself as a big time player in the Indian Ocean islands. First it was Seychelles, which was rocky to start with but is now served daily using the B737. The Comoros came after, and then two destinations in Madagascar. Despite ET's long existence, this is relatively new territory for it and it continues to grow strong. Anti competitive measures and protectionism are keeping its expansion contained with no additional rights given into Antananarivo, Madagascar despite healthy loads. Mauritius also remains protectionist and is not granting landing rights to ET.

What's compelling me to write this is ET's announcement to start flights to Marseille, France. Paris, which it has served for many years already was initially operated as a tag along, sometimes with B752s and other times with B763s. Today it is consistently served nonstop and daily with the A350 which has the second highest seat count in ET's fleet after its B773s. Part of the success in my opinion is the large number of Comorians and Malgasy in France (100000 and 70000 respectively,) and the seamless connections and service ET offers (in the past airlines like Yemenia were relied upon to Comoros.)

With Marseille opening up, a large contingent of Comorians that reside there will see a new quicker way to get home. It is to be noted that ET's service to the Comoros has also grown extremely fast, starting with B738s via Dar es Salaam a few years ago and today flying daily, nonstop with terminator B787s and B763 service. Maybe in time we will see Marseille served nonstop from Addis.
 
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:27 pm

:arrow: Air Tanzania resumes Johannesburg / Mumbai service in June/July 2019

Dar es Salaam – Johannesburg eff 28JUN19 4 weekly 787-8 (Last served until Feb 2009)
TC208 DAR1030 – 1245JNB 788 x246
TC209 JNB1420 – 1835DAR 788 x246

Dar es Salaam – Mumbai eff 17JUL19 3 weekly 787-8 (Last served until May 1992)
TC400 DAR1800 – 0250+1BOM 788 357
TC401 BOM0410 – 0800DAR 788 146

Glad to see they send the flagship and non stop! How do these flights connect to the rest of the network? ( did not have time to check this... :ashamed: )

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2019/

Btw KQ is running a great deal out of BOM to GVA at $800 (return) in business class!
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:42 pm

eastafspot wrote:
:arrow: Air Tanzania resumes Johannesburg / Mumbai service in June/July 2019

Dar es Salaam – Johannesburg eff 28JUN19 4 weekly 787-8 (Last served until Feb 2009)
TC208 DAR1030 – 1245JNB 788 x246
TC209 JNB1420 – 1835DAR 788 x246

Dar es Salaam – Mumbai eff 17JUL19 3 weekly 787-8 (Last served until May 1992)
TC400 DAR1800 – 0250+1BOM 788 357
TC401 BOM0410 – 0800DAR 788 146

Glad to see they send the flagship and non stop! How do these flights connect to the rest of the network? ( did not have time to check this... :ashamed: )

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2019/

Btw KQ is running a great deal out of BOM to GVA at $800 (return) in business class!


One would think that TC would run the B788 on an DAR-JNB-DAR-BOM-DAR rotation with tighter ground time. Instead the DAR-JNB and DAR-BOM flights operate on different days, not offering connecting opportunities between JNB and BOM. That's what ET would do.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:45 pm

berari wrote:
In a short few years, Ethiopian has installed itself as a big time player in the Indian Ocean islands. First it was Seychelles, which was rocky to start with but is now served daily using the B737. The Comoros came after, and then two destinations in Madagascar. Despite ET's long existence, this is relatively new territory for it and it continues to grow strong. Anti competitive measures and protectionism are keeping its expansion contained with no additional rights given into Antananarivo, Madagascar despite healthy loads. Mauritius also remains protectionist and is not granting landing rights to ET.

What's compelling me to write this is ET's announcement to start flights to Marseille, France. Paris, which it has served for many years already was initially operated as a tag along, sometimes with B752s and other times with B763s. Today it is consistently served nonstop and daily with the A350 which has the second highest seat count in ET's fleet after its B773s. Part of the success in my opinion is the large number of Comorians and Malgasy in France (100000 and 70000 respectively,) and the seamless connections and service ET offers (in the past airlines like Yemenia were relied upon to Comoros.)

With Marseille opening up, a large contingent of Comorians that reside there will see a new quicker way to get home. It is to be noted that ET's service to the Comoros has also grown extremely fast, starting with B738s via Dar es Salaam a few years ago and today flying daily, nonstop with terminator B787s and B763 service. Maybe in time we will see Marseille served nonstop from Addis.


What a great analysis Berari ! I must admit that more contributors like yourself should post here!
Except Mauritius, which "can" represent a high end destination, why do you think ET should get more favour compared to other (long haul) carriers?
Also, where did you get the figures about the Comorians and Malgasy in France? Just curious!
The French market to Indian Ocean might be different than the British/Rest of the world one due to the various communities spread all along!
BTW thanks for the Yemenia tip :smile:
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:29 pm

berari wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
:arrow: Air Tanzania resumes Johannesburg / Mumbai service in June/July 2019

Dar es Salaam – Johannesburg eff 28JUN19 4 weekly 787-8 (Last served until Feb 2009)
TC208 DAR1030 – 1245JNB 788 x246
TC209 JNB1420 – 1835DAR 788 x246

Dar es Salaam – Mumbai eff 17JUL19 3 weekly 787-8 (Last served until May 1992)
TC400 DAR1800 – 0250+1BOM 788 357
TC401 BOM0410 – 0800DAR 788 146

Glad to see they send the flagship and non stop! How do these flights connect to the rest of the network? ( did not have time to check this... :ashamed: )

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2019/

Btw KQ is running a great deal out of BOM to GVA at $800 (return) in business class!


One would think that TC would run the B788 on an DAR-JNB-DAR-BOM-DAR rotation with tighter ground time. Instead the DAR-JNB and DAR-BOM flights operate on different days, not offering connecting opportunities between JNB and BOM. That's what ET would do.


TC want to open up the local market to regional connectivity first, which could is a good idea IMHO since their network is pretty limited except EBB, BJM and HAH.
Don't forget that Tanzanian government shut down FastJet in order to TC to grow.... unfair yes, but legal in Africa :mad: .
DAR on itself could sustain many flights to the world direct, if well advertised/connected!
Not long ago, ET slashed fares from there to $650 to CDG and LHR rtn in J!
How many frequencies do ET have to DAR and/ from ADD to BOM per day?
With which equipment?

Not the exact same words but Ugandan President " M7" said that the revival of the East African airline should be in the pipeline when all countries pool the forces and actions!
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:26 am

eastafspot wrote:
[
What a great analysis Berari ! I must admit that more contributors like yourself should post here!
Except Mauritius, which "can" represent a high end destination, why do you think ET should get more favour compared to other (long haul) carriers?
Also, where did you get the figures about the Comorians and Malgasy in France? Just curious!
The French market to Indian Ocean might be different than the British/Rest of the world one due to the various communities spread all along!
BTW thanks for the Yemenia tip :smile:


ET is not looking to get more favour. Mauritius has allowed many other airlines to serve its territory including Turkish and Emirates, Qatar and even Saudia which flies the route regularly. All with operations similar to ET's that includes carrying connecting traffic. Yet Mauritius has been dragging its heels when it comes to Ethiopian, where we also see Air Mauritius working to team up with Kenya Airways and SAA to fight off ET. The reality is that this is yet another African vs African fight/competition while having an open arms attitude towards non African competitors. I don't see the nonsensical description of Mauritius being a "high end" destination for it has no bearing in rights being granted to ET which serves a plethora of destinations of greater riches.

Re: French market, if you look at the ET loads and the increase in capacity to Paris and now Marseille, it has remarkable correlation with growth of service to Indian Ocean states. I expect ET to venture into Dzaoudzi, Mauritius (if and when granted rights) and even to Reunion eventually. I also expect it to go daily to Antananarivo when frequency increases are granted by its authorities, and see increases to NosyBe which has been the biggest surprise in terms of new destinations for ET.
 
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:59 am

How is Fastjet doing? I remember they were struggling financially a while back. Has the situation improved?
 
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:10 am

berari wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
:arrow: Air Tanzania resumes Johannesburg / Mumbai service in June/July 2019

Dar es Salaam – Johannesburg eff 28JUN19 4 weekly 787-8 (Last served until Feb 2009)
TC208 DAR1030 – 1245JNB 788 x246
TC209 JNB1420 – 1835DAR 788 x246

Dar es Salaam – Mumbai eff 17JUL19 3 weekly 787-8 (Last served until May 1992)
TC400 DAR1800 – 0250+1BOM 788 357
TC401 BOM0410 – 0800DAR 788 146

Glad to see they send the flagship and non stop! How do these flights connect to the rest of the network? ( did not have time to check this... :ashamed: )

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2019/

Btw KQ is running a great deal out of BOM to GVA at $800 (return) in business class!


One would think that TC would run the B788 on an DAR-JNB-DAR-BOM-DAR rotation with tighter ground time. Instead the DAR-JNB and DAR-BOM flights operate on different days, not offering connecting opportunities between JNB and BOM. That's what ET would do.

I don't see them filling the 788 on the route. Why don't they deploy the A220's on the route,after all that's what they said after they got them.
 
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:19 am

Blerg wrote:
How is Fastjet doing? I remember they were struggling financially a while back. Has the situation improved?

I really don't see them making a comeback in Tanzania,coupled with their financial problems and the Tanzanian government suspending they AOC,no. But I heard that their Zimbabwe flights are full though they still struggle to get cash like many carriers in Zimbabwe but that's for the Southern African forum.
 
nairobby
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:51 am

KQ's 77W to remain on lease at TK till 2025/26
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:22 am

mr02 wrote:
berari wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
:arrow: Air Tanzania resumes Johannesburg / Mumbai service in June/July 2019

Dar es Salaam – Johannesburg eff 28JUN19 4 weekly 787-8 (Last served until Feb 2009)
TC208 DAR1030 – 1245JNB 788 x246
TC209 JNB1420 – 1835DAR 788 x246

Dar es Salaam – Mumbai eff 17JUL19 3 weekly 787-8 (Last served until May 1992)
TC400 DAR1800 – 0250+1BOM 788 357
TC401 BOM0410 – 0800DAR 788 146

Glad to see they send the flagship and non stop! How do these flights connect to the rest of the network? ( did not have time to check this... :ashamed: )

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2019/

Btw KQ is running a great deal out of BOM to GVA at $800 (return) in business class!


That schedule isn't making sense...
If i understand correct, it means it operates Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun JNB- DAR, arriving DAR at 18:35...but DAR-BOM operates also Wed,Fri,Sun...departing DAR 18:00...35minutes before the aircraft arrives from JNB...they only have the one 787?

Was also hoping that the main target for the JNB-DAR route would be to connect to the BOM route, as it could make them the quickest option if timed correctly. Then JNB route should at least also connect domestic to ZNZ, JRO and maybe MWZ...also connecting to HAH could benefit, as it's still a long detour between JNB and HAH.

One would think that TC would run the B788 on an DAR-JNB-DAR-BOM-DAR rotation with tighter ground time. Instead the DAR-JNB and DAR-BOM flights operate on different days, not offering connecting opportunities between JNB and BOM. That's what ET would do.

I don't see them filling the 788 on the route. Why don't they deploy the A220's on the route,after all that's what they said after they got them.
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:23 am

mr02 wrote:
berari wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
:arrow: Air Tanzania resumes Johannesburg / Mumbai service in June/July 2019

Dar es Salaam – Johannesburg eff 28JUN19 4 weekly 787-8 (Last served until Feb 2009)
TC208 DAR1030 – 1245JNB 788 x246
TC209 JNB1420 – 1835DAR 788 x246

Dar es Salaam – Mumbai eff 17JUL19 3 weekly 787-8 (Last served until May 1992)
TC400 DAR1800 – 0250+1BOM 788 357
TC401 BOM0410 – 0800DAR 788 146

Glad to see they send the flagship and non stop! How do these flights connect to the rest of the network? ( did not have time to check this... :ashamed: )

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2019/

Btw KQ is running a great deal out of BOM to GVA at $800 (return) in business class!


That schedule isn't making sense...
If i understand correct, it means it operates Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun JNB- DAR, arriving DAR at 18:35...but DAR-BOM operates also Wed,Fri,Sun...departing DAR 18:00...35minutes before the aircraft arrives from JNB...they only have the one 787?

Was also hoping that the main target for the JNB-DAR route would be to connect to the BOM route, as it could make them the quickest option if timed correctly. Then JNB route should at least also connect domestic to ZNZ, JRO and maybe MWZ...also connecting to HAH could benefit, as it's still a long detour between JNB and HAH.

One would think that TC would run the B788 on an DAR-JNB-DAR-BOM-DAR rotation with tighter ground time. Instead the DAR-JNB and DAR-BOM flights operate on different days, not offering connecting opportunities between JNB and BOM. That's what ET would do.

I don't see them filling the 788 on the route. Why don't they deploy the A220's on the route,after all that's what they said after they got them.
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:17 am

Don't know why my posts didn't come out right there...

Was saying that the timings and schedule isn't looking right...as JNB-DAR operates Mon,Wed,Fri,Sun arriving DAR at 18:35...while DAR-BOM operates Wed,Fri,Sun departing DAR at 18:00...35mins before the aircraft arrives from JNB...and they only have one 787...

For JNB route, was hoping connecting to the BOM route would be a main objective, since it could make them the fastest option if timed correctly and convenient...but also connections to ZNZ, JRO and MWZ important and maybe even HAH
 
MileHFL400
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:19 am

nairobby wrote:
KQ's 77W to remain on lease at TK till 2025/26


Source?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
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mr02
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:23 pm

GRJGeorge wrote:
Don't know why my posts didn't come out right there...

Was saying that the timings and schedule isn't looking right...as JNB-DAR operates Mon,Wed,Fri,Sun arriving DAR at 18:35...while DAR-BOM operates Wed,Fri,Sun departing DAR at 18:00...35mins before the aircraft arrives from JNB...and they only have one 787...

For JNB route, was hoping connecting to the BOM route would be a main objective, since it could make them the fastest option if timed correctly and convenient...but also connections to ZNZ, JRO and MWZ important and maybe even HAH

At what time will be arriving in DAR(BOM-DAR leg)?
 
nairobby
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:40 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
nairobby wrote:
KQ's 77W to remain on lease at TK till 2025/26


Source?


Kenya Airways twitter page this morning. It was during the results release.
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:59 pm

mr02 wrote:
GRJGeorge wrote:
Don't know why my posts didn't come out right there...

Was saying that the timings and schedule isn't looking right...as JNB-DAR operates Mon,Wed,Fri,Sun arriving DAR at 18:35...while DAR-BOM operates Wed,Fri,Sun departing DAR at 18:00...35mins before the aircraft arrives from JNB...and they only have one 787...

For JNB route, was hoping connecting to the BOM route would be a main objective, since it could make them the fastest option if timed correctly and convenient...but also connections to ZNZ, JRO and MWZ important and maybe even HAH

At what time will be arriving in DAR(BOM-DAR leg)?


So we can expecth the schedule to be adjusted further. I hadn't noticed the same day Wed, Fri, Sun ops to JNB and BOM. They'll adjust schedules to make this connection, good utilization of aircraft and tapping into the JNB-BOM market!
 
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mr02
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 6:00 am

berari wrote:
mr02 wrote:
GRJGeorge wrote:
Don't know why my posts didn't come out right there...

Was saying that the timings and schedule isn't looking right...as JNB-DAR operates Mon,Wed,Fri,Sun arriving DAR at 18:35...while DAR-BOM operates Wed,Fri,Sun departing DAR at 18:00...35mins before the aircraft arrives from JNB...and they only have one 787...

For JNB route, was hoping connecting to the BOM route would be a main objective, since it could make them the fastest option if timed correctly and convenient...but also connections to ZNZ, JRO and MWZ important and maybe even HAH

At what time will be arriving in DAR(BOM-DAR leg)?


So we can expecth the schedule to be adjusted further. I hadn't noticed the same day Wed, Fri, Sun ops to JNB and BOM. They'll adjust schedules to make this connection, good utilization of aircraft and tapping into the JNB-BOM market!

It will be a tough market to crack. They'll be competing with EY,EK,ET,KQ and TK to an extant but I wish them the best of luck. If the 788's don't work they can always lease them to SA
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 7:28 pm

mr02 wrote:
It will be a tough market to crack. They'll be competing with EY,EK,ET,KQ and TK to an extant but I wish them the best of luck. If the 788's don't work they can always lease them to SA


The last thing SA needs is another new aircraft type when it can't make it work with what it has.

For TC, if they see a market between DAR/JNB and DAR/BOM, it only makes sense to utilize such capable aircraft on the route. Better than using a single aisle aircraft from a competition standpoint. And better aircraft utilization too.
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 3:46 am

I have noticed how Ethiopian has slowly built up its service to Toronto. Having started with only 3 flights per week now up to five, and starting out with the B788, it's now flying the B77L. Of interest are loads this week, where seats in Y on ADD-YYZ sector are scarce, and it's not peak season yet.
 
AF022
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 7:55 am

berari wrote:
I have noticed how Ethiopian has slowly built up its service to Toronto. Having started with only 3 flights per week now up to five, and starting out with the B788, it's now flying the B77L. Of interest are loads this week, where seats in Y on ADD-YYZ sector are scarce, and it's not peak season yet.


I think they are upgrading to A350 this summer.
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 6:30 pm

AF022 wrote:
berari wrote:
I have noticed how Ethiopian has slowly built up its service to Toronto. Having started with only 3 flights per week now up to five, and starting out with the B788, it's now flying the B77L. Of interest are loads this week, where seats in Y on ADD-YYZ sector are scarce, and it's not peak season yet.


I think they are upgrading to A350 this summer.


Yes! An elegant machine they'll have plying that route. It will be their first A350 service to North America, ever.

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