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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 11:28 pm

berari wrote:
ET is not looking to get more favour. Mauritius has allowed many other airlines to serve its territory including Turkish and Emirates, Qatar and even Saudia which flies the route regularly. All with operations similar to ET's that includes carrying connecting traffic. Yet Mauritius has been dragging its heels when it comes to Ethiopian, where we also see Air Mauritius working to team up with Kenya Airways and SAA to fight off ET. The reality is that this is yet another African vs African fight/competition while having an open arms attitude towards non African competitors. I don't see the nonsensical description of Mauritius being a "high end" destination for it has no bearing in rights being granted to ET which serves a plethora of destinations of greater riches.


Can African airlines see ET as a rival instead of a long term investment? (As just a question ,only).
If i really like the overall strategy and success of ET, which is promoting Africa to the world or visiting Ethiopia before Africa/going to your home, their current problem is the location, not the best for the future growth in West/Central Africa!
Also, to be honest, it's sad that RwandAir, Uganda Airlines, Air Tanzania and KQ to compete to each others and against ET!
but let be it !

_____________________


Forgot to write it last time but:

:arrow: Egyptair started flights to Kigali on the 27th of April
https://www.egyptair.com/en/about-egypt ... li%20.aspx
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
B1168
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 11:36 pm

I remembered when TC was granted traffic rights btw BKK and CAN by CAAC. Given their plan to use 788 elsewhere, I am getting baffled by their strategy and no longer expect the route to materialize anymore.

Prior to WB’s announcement of KGL-BOM-CAN, it would have been possible for TC to operate JNB-DAR+DAR-BOM-CAN on A220-300 (with full pax at least) while use 788 for BKK and LON, all of which are major markets they expressed wish to seize. Now with WB taking the spot, I don’t see CAN coming anymore.
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 3:30 am

Addis Ababa airport is adding more rapid exit taxiways to its runway, already added at the 07 end of the runway. Also there appears to be a major undertaking on the eastern end of the airport, either the VIP area they had planned for or an expansion of the apron.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@8.9786482,3 ... a=!3m1!1e3
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 10, 2019 4:09 am

Sydney Airport representatives were in Addis Ababa working to lure Ethiopian to open direct flights to SYD.

https://twitter.com/ausambet/status/112 ... 90272?s=11
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 10, 2019 7:54 pm

berari wrote:
Addis Ababa airport is adding more rapid exit taxiways to its runway, already added at the 07 end of the runway. Also there appears to be a major undertaking on the eastern end of the airport, either the VIP area they had planned for or an expansion of the apron.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@8.9786482,3 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Very interesting infos Berari, thanks a ton for your regular & precious contributions. :smile:
Just to be sure, both runways are operational or 7L/25R will be converted to taxiway until the new airport will open?

berari wrote:
Sydney Airport representatives were in Addis Ababa working to lure Ethiopian to open direct flights to SYD.
https://twitter.com/ausambet/status/112 ... 90272?s=11

Do you think, it's reasonnable? I mean compared to Perth for SAA?
What could be the time differences between flying through /PER/SIN or BKK?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 10, 2019 8:31 pm

eastafspot wrote:
berari wrote:
Addis Ababa airport is adding more rapid exit taxiways to its runway, already added at the 07 end of the runway. Also there appears to be a major undertaking on the eastern end of the airport, either the VIP area they had planned for or an expansion of the apron.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@8.9786482,3 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Very interesting infos Berari, thanks a ton for your regular & precious contributions. :smile:
Just to be sure, both runways are operational or 7L/25R will be converted to taxiway until the new airport will open?


ADD only operates one of the runways at a time. The other one serves as taxiway.

eastafspot wrote:
berari wrote:
Sydney Airport representatives were in Addis Ababa working to lure Ethiopian to open direct flights to SYD.
https://twitter.com/ausambet/status/112 ... 90272?s=11

Do you think, it's reasonnable? I mean compared to Perth for SAA?
What could be the time differences between flying through /PER/SIN or BKK?


My money would be on Melbourne if going to the eastern part of Australia. If nonstop, timings could work to meet the traditional banks at ADD with following potential timings:

ADD MEL 2200 - 1900
MEL ADD 2210 - 0540
 
evanb
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 10, 2019 8:57 pm

berari wrote:
My money would be on Melbourne if going to the eastern part of Australia. If nonstop, timings could work to meet the traditional banks at ADD with following potential timings:

ADD MEL 2200 - 1900
MEL ADD 2210 - 0540


Will they be looking to connect into African bank like the Asian flights (morning arrival in ADD) or European bank (afternoon/evening arrival in ADD)?

The challenge will be getting a decent payload on ADD-MEL. It would be longer than ADD-IAD which requires a tech-stop in DUB. Would they need a tech-stop on the way to MEL? PER is the only real option.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 10, 2019 11:08 pm

berari wrote:
ADD only operates one of the runways at a time. The other one serves as taxiway.

At a time? Glad to learn this, as I remember departing/arriving from both runways indeed! Is it like AKL or any other reason that both runways can't be used simultaneously?

berari wrote:
My money would be on Melbourne if going to the eastern part of Australia. If nonstop,
ADD MEL 2200 - 1900
MEL ADD 2210 - 0540

Qantas used to serve Harare (Zimbabwe) in the past, can ET rely mainly on this market ?
Which a/c would fit the best?

evanb wrote:
The challenge will be getting a decent payload on ADD-MEL. It would be longer than ADD-IAD which requires a tech-stop in DUB. Would they need a tech-stop on the way to MEL? PER is the only real option.

How Darwin is doing on Gcmap, to grab some pax on Silkair or Jetstar asia to SYD or MEL?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 10, 2019 11:14 pm

evanb wrote:
berari wrote:
My money would be on Melbourne if going to the eastern part of Australia. If nonstop, timings could work to meet the traditional banks at ADD with following potential timings:

ADD MEL 2200 - 1900
MEL ADD 2210 - 0540


Will they be looking to connect into African bank like the Asian flights (morning arrival in ADD) or European bank (afternoon/evening arrival in ADD)?

The challenge will be getting a decent payload on ADD-MEL. It would be longer than ADD-IAD which requires a tech-stop in DUB. Would they need a tech-stop on the way to MEL? PER is the only real option.


That is true. It would be the longest flight out of ADD and the nonstop that I dreamt about above is likely not feasible even though distance wise it is a smidgen shorter than the LFW-LAX runs ET did recently.

Beyond the high altitude at ADD, my understanding with ADD-IAD is also headwinds that make the trip longer.

As for tech stops to MEL, I would consider SIN a strong candidate although it'd be in direct competition with partner SQ.
 
mr02
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 1:03 am

eastafspot wrote:
berari wrote:
ADD only operates one of the runways at a time. The other one serves as taxiway.

At a time? Glad to learn this, as I remember departing/arriving from both runways indeed! Is it like AKL or any other reason that both runways can't be used simultaneously?

berari wrote:
My money would be on Melbourne if going to the eastern part of Australia. If nonstop,
ADD MEL 2200 - 1900
MEL ADD 2210 - 0540

Qantas used to serve Harare (Zimbabwe) in the past, can ET rely mainly on this market ?
Which a/c would fit the best?

evanb wrote:
The challenge will be getting a decent payload on ADD-MEL. It would be longer than ADD-IAD which requires a tech-stop in DUB. Would they need a tech-stop on the way to MEL? PER is the only real option.

How Darwin is doing on Gcmap, to grab some pax on Silkair or Jetstar asia to SYD or MEL?

I definitely see them using the 788. But is it possible for it to do a non-stop from ADD to MEL with ADD's elevation and what will the ETOPS be?
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 3:11 am

ET is a specialist of "tag- on", so the route to Australia would be similar!
Where would be the best stop for ET?
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budgetflyer
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 5:55 am

I believe that Australia would be best served non-stop from ADD, assuming it is technically feasible of course. I can't speak to the size or volume of Africa-Australia traffic, but even with the current travel options, it is an expensive and time-consuming journey to make that often requires a double connection. Serving Australia non-stop would position ET as the most competitive option for West & East Africa - Australia travel, both in terms of travel time and connectivity available through their ADD hub.

SIN would be a sensible option as a stopover on a hypothetical ADD-MEL route, although perhaps ET could try capturing some traffic on a route where they would face less or no competition - think ADD-BOM-MEL or ADD-CGK-MEL, for example. I still maintain however that ET would be more competitive if it could serve Australia non-stop, even if in one direction only - it would allow for shorter travel times and give them an advantage over carries such as EK and QR.

Does anybody know how much payload and fuel an A359 or 77L can lift out of ADD?
 
evanb
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 4:18 pm

mr02 wrote:
I definitely see them using the 788. But is it possible for it to do a non-stop from ADD to MEL with ADD's elevation and what will the ETOPS be?


Not possible. The weight penalty on take-off at ADD would be too significant for a non-stop ADD-MEL. ADD-MEL would be 1,400 miles longer than the longest sector already flown by ET.

Route would only need ETOPS/EDTO 180, so that wouldn't be a problem.
 
mr02
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 5:18 pm

evanb wrote:
mr02 wrote:
I definitely see them using the 788. But is it possible for it to do a non-stop from ADD to MEL with ADD's elevation and what will the ETOPS be?


Not possible. The weight penalty on take-off at ADD would be too significant for a non-stop ADD-MEL. ADD-MEL would be 1,400 miles longer than the longest sector already flown by ET.

Route would only need ETOPS/EDTO 180, so that wouldn't be a problem.
 
SQ317
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 6:16 pm

evanb wrote:
mr02 wrote:
I definitely see them using the 788. But is it possible for it to do a non-stop from ADD to MEL with ADD's elevation and what will the ETOPS be?


Not possible. The weight penalty on take-off at ADD would be too significant for a non-stop ADD-MEL. ADD-MEL would be 1,400 miles longer than the longest sector already flown by ET.

Route would only need ETOPS/EDTO 180, so that wouldn't be a problem.


Sorry if I've missed this, but what is the longest sector flown out of ADD? GRU?
 
evanb
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 6:19 pm

SQ317 wrote:
Sorry if I've missed this, but what is the longest sector flown out of ADD? GRU?


Correct, ADD-GRU at 6,171 mi, and then ADD-ICN at 5,720 mi. ADD-MEL would be 7,474 mi.
 
mr02
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 7:46 pm

evanb wrote:
SQ317 wrote:
Sorry if I've missed this, but what is the longest sector flown out of ADD? GRU?


Correct, ADD-GRU at 6,171 mi, and then ADD-ICN at 5,720 mi. ADD-MEL would be 7,474 mi.

So,if ET decide to launch ADD-MEL,where do you think they'll have their stop-over?
 
evanb
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 12:35 pm

mr02 wrote:
So,if ET decide to launch ADD-MEL,where do you think they'll have their stop-over?


I don't expect ET to launch ADD-MEL or ADD-SYD anytime soon. I suspect they'll look to continue to expand capacity in Asia and Europe first. Their hub has reached critical mass, so to speak, and they'll look to expand flow at ADD. As the A350 starts to take over a few more North American and Asian routes from the B788, it'll allow the B788s to add European capacity (just like we've seen with the recent additions of Geneva, Marseille and Moscow).

However, I may be wrong, and if I am, they'll recognize that Australia is a different market, and given their hub banking in ADD they need to make a clear strategy move in terms of whether it feeds their European network or African network. This may effect flight times and thus where they stop over. I actually suspect that they'll go ADD-PER-MEL or ADD-PER-SYD and rather than pick up 5th freedoms look for the shortest flight time and have two points in Australia instead. PER might be useful if they go for the African banks in ADD since PER has a large mining sector with much bigger business links to Africa than MEL/SYD. MEL/SYD would then focus on VFR and tourist traffic. Together this would be a nice mix.

The problem is that if they look for it to feed Europe it makes adding it on to an Asian route (say ADD-SIN) difficult since it'll be poorly timed for European connections. European flights from ADD depart in the evening, while Asian arrivals in ADD are timed for the morning to make African connections. If they adjust ADD-SIN, then ADD-SIN becomes poorly timed for African connections (which is their primary market from Asia). This makes the Asian stop a catch-22.
 
mr02
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 8:30 am

evanb wrote:
mr02 wrote:
So,if ET decide to launch ADD-MEL,where do you think they'll have their stop-over?


I don't expect ET to launch ADD-MEL or ADD-SYD anytime soon. I suspect they'll look to continue to expand capacity in Asia and Europe first. Their hub has reached critical mass, so to speak, and they'll look to expand flow at ADD. As the A350 starts to take over a few more North American and Asian routes from the B788, it'll allow the B788s to add European capacity (just like we've seen with the recent additions of Geneva, Marseille and Moscow).

However, I may be wrong, and if I am, they'll recognize that Australia is a different market, and given their hub banking in ADD they need to make a clear strategy move in terms of whether it feeds their European network or African network. This may effect flight times and thus where they stop over. I actually suspect that they'll go ADD-PER-MEL or ADD-PER-SYD and rather than pick up 5th freedoms look for the shortest flight time and have two points in Australia instead. PER might be useful if they go for the African banks in ADD since PER has a large mining sector with much bigger business links to Africa than MEL/SYD. MEL/SYD would then focus on VFR and tourist traffic. Together this would be a nice mix.

The problem is that if they look for it to feed Europe it makes adding it on to an Asian route (say ADD-SIN) difficult since it'll be poorly timed for European connections. European flights from ADD depart in the evening, while Asian arrivals in ADD are timed for the morning to make African connections. If they adjust ADD-SIN, then ADD-SIN becomes poorly timed for African connections (which is their primary market from Asia). This makes the Asian stop a catch-22.

If ET start an Australian route,I definitely see ADD-PER-MEL. Melbourne has the highest African population of any other Australian city but as you said it will depend on their connecting flights to Europe or Africa.
 
myki
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 11:56 am

mr02 wrote:
evanb wrote:
mr02 wrote:
So,if ET decide to launch ADD-MEL,where do you think they'll have their stop-over?


I don't expect ET to launch ADD-MEL or ADD-SYD anytime soon. I suspect they'll look to continue to expand capacity in Asia and Europe first. Their hub has reached critical mass, so to speak, and they'll look to expand flow at ADD. As the A350 starts to take over a few more North American and Asian routes from the B788, it'll allow the B788s to add European capacity (just like we've seen with the recent additions of Geneva, Marseille and Moscow).

However, I may be wrong, and if I am, they'll recognize that Australia is a different market, and given their hub banking in ADD they need to make a clear strategy move in terms of whether it feeds their European network or African network. This may effect flight times and thus where they stop over. I actually suspect that they'll go ADD-PER-MEL or ADD-PER-SYD and rather than pick up 5th freedoms look for the shortest flight time and have two points in Australia instead. PER might be useful if they go for the African banks in ADD since PER has a large mining sector with much bigger business links to Africa than MEL/SYD. MEL/SYD would then focus on VFR and tourist traffic. Together this would be a nice mix.

The problem is that if they look for it to feed Europe it makes adding it on to an Asian route (say ADD-SIN) difficult since it'll be poorly timed for European connections. European flights from ADD depart in the evening, while Asian arrivals in ADD are timed for the morning to make African connections. If they adjust ADD-SIN, then ADD-SIN becomes poorly timed for African connections (which is their primary market from Asia). This makes the Asian stop a catch-22.

If ET start an Australian route,I definitely see ADD-PER-MEL. Melbourne has the highest African population of any other Australian city but as you said it will depend on their connecting flights to Europe or Africa.

What about BME?
Haha.

But seriously, SEZ? MRU? RUN?
(MK used to do variants of MRU-MEL, MRU-MEL-SYD-MRU, MRU-SYD-MEL-MRU and also MRU PER MEL)
 
evanb
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 12:37 pm

myki wrote:
But seriously, SEZ? MRU? RUN?
(MK used to do variants of MRU-MEL, MRU-MEL-SYD-MRU, MRU-SYD-MEL-MRU and also MRU PER MEL)


Do they have traffic rights? Does it feed the hub at the most appropriate times? Is the business case there? The fact that MK used to and no longer may answer the final question (also, MK's business model is different to ET's).
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 10:05 pm

evanb wrote:
As the A350 starts to take over a few more North American and Asian routes from the B788, it'll allow the B788s to add European capacity (just like we've seen with the recent additions of Geneva, Marseille and Moscow).

MRS *could* be considered as a low yield seasonal traffic compared to Nice/NCE (+ SVO/GVA; in your example), so why did they choose this city compared to BOD (Bordeaux) with a mixed population or BER/CPH? According to you, which European destination can sustain an ET 2nd daily flight - all year round?

evanb wrote:
The problem is that if they look for it to feed Europe it makes adding it on to an Asian route (say ADD-SIN) difficult since it'll be poorly timed for European connections. European flights from ADD depart in the evening, while Asian arrivals in ADD are timed for the morning to make African connections. If they adjust ADD-SIN, then ADD-SIN becomes poorly timed for African connections (which is their primary market from Asia). This makes the Asian stop a catch-22.

Will try to look for datas asap, but do you know roughly how many aircraft will ET receive this year (preferably LH)?
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evanb
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 1:18 am

eastafspot wrote:
MRS *could* be considered as a low yield seasonal traffic compared to Nice/NCE (+ SVO/GVA; in your example), so why did they choose this city compared to BOD (Bordeaux) with a mixed population or BER/CPH? According to you, which European destination can sustain an ET 2nd daily flight - all year round?


MRS is the second biggest city in France but because of restrictive bilateral agreements it doesn't have Emirates, Etihad or Qatar Airways so that leaves a big opportunity for Ethiopian. And yes, it might be considered low yield compared to NCE or GVA, but Ethiopian are the king of cost structure so they don't need the yields that some other carriers may require to make a route successful.

I think they're still missing ZRH, a second German destination (MUC or TXL), return to AMS in terms of new flights.

They'd love to increase their LHR flights but the right slots of elusive and ET are not the type to overpay for slots. They might look to increase FRA instead of a second German destination. CDG and FCO are probably long shots.

That said, there are a bunch of other destinations with less than daily service with opportunity for extra frequencies.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 2:42 am

evanb wrote:
[
I think they're still missing ZRH, a second German destination (MUC or TXL), return to AMS in terms of new flights..


ZRH is good for winter or should have been started before :stirthepot:
Maybe Australia needs a hub à la "African" to ease the implement of ET strategy.
BER would be a nice idea?
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LUKAS10
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 4:20 pm

Rwandair will launch three weekly flights between Kigali and Tel Aviv. Service starts June 25.

WB502 KGL0030 – 0730TLV 738 246
WB503 TLV0040 – 0540KGL 738 35
WB503 TLV2350 – 0500+1KGL 738 6
 
Blerg
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 23, 2019 3:30 pm

LUKAS10 wrote:
Rwandair will launch three weekly flights between Kigali and Tel Aviv. Service starts June 25.

WB502 KGL0030 – 0730TLV 738 246
WB503 TLV0040 – 0540KGL 738 35
WB503 TLV2350 – 0500+1KGL 738 6


Does the plan sit the whole day in Tel Aviv or will they add another flight before the flight heads back to Kigali? Are they after transfers or is there local demand?
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 23, 2019 10:47 pm

LUKAS10 wrote:
Rwandair will launch three weekly flights between Kigali and Tel Aviv. Service starts June 25.

WB502 KGL0030 – 0730TLV 738 246
WB503 TLV0040 – 0540KGL 738 35
WB503 TLV2350 – 0500+1KGL 738 6


Like Blerg said, it does seem to be a long lay over in TLV.
Where did you get the news from?
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 23, 2019 11:32 pm

The UK has not issued a new travel advisory for Kenya, so this is FALSE.
The travel alert was issued by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office on May 21 and still remains current.

********
Jambojet to add four Q400s, expand regional network in 2019
https://hapakenya.com/2019/05/14/jamboj ... ity-award/

Any recent news about Ethiopia or ET?
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iadadd
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 24, 2019 12:30 pm

berari wrote:
I have noticed how Ethiopian has slowly built up its service to Toronto. Having started with only 3 flights per week now up to five, and starting out with the B788, it's now flying the B77L. Of interest are loads this week, where seats in Y on ADD-YYZ sector are scarce, and it's not peak season yet.


I can imagine ET would love to fly daily into YYZ; however, as you may know Canada is very restrictive with giving traffic rights. ET only received its increase to 5x weekly in late 2017. So, only way ET can expand is by capacity increase.

With the promising loads, hopefully Canada will grant a further expansion of frequencies. Perhaps a codeshare between AC and ET could support ET's cause. The 2, despite being in Star Alliance, don't seem to cooperate that much.
 
dkny
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 24, 2019 2:41 pm

Does anyone know what terminal ET will be operating from when it starts JFK flights in a couple of weeks
 
rukundo
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 24, 2019 4:14 pm

Does the plan sit the whole day in Tel Aviv or will they add another flight before the flight heads back to Kigali? Are they after transfers or is there local demand?


All RwandAir flights to and from West and Central Africa are operated during the daylight, there are not overnight flights. Flights leave Kigali, in the morning and back in the evening. From West Africa, i think that RwandAir will try to attract, African Pilgrims who fly to Israel, mostly from Nigeria. Nigerian Christian Pilgrim Commission leases sometimes an A330, to operate special flights to Israel during the high season.

About East Africa, charter flights from Israel to Kenya and Tanzania, resumed few years agp, after a long suspension due to terrors acts in the region, early 2000s.

There is a growing influence of Israel in some parts of Africa, mostly in English speaking countries (Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda). They recently opened an embassy in Rwanda and Tanzania.

There are few airlines serving Sub-Saharan Africa which provide "fast" link between Israel and Africa. None national flag carrier based in North Africa serve Tel Aviv. Same thing with Qatar, Emirates,...You have Egyptair / Air Sinai, but it's not pratical

The fastest routing are via Istanbul or Addis Ababa. Via London, Amsterdam or Paris can be longer.

However, i don't know, if the Kigali Tel Aviv will work.

Like Blerg said, it does seem to be a long lay over in TLV.
Where did you get the news from?


https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... june-2019/

https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-rwan ... pPPC_31jVU
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 3:49 pm

evanb wrote:
The problem is that if they look for it to feed Europe it makes adding it on to an Asian route (say ADD-SIN) difficult since it'll be poorly timed for European connections. European flights from ADD depart in the evening, while Asian arrivals in ADD are timed for the morning to make African connections. If they adjust ADD-SIN, then ADD-SIN becomes poorly timed for African connections (which is their primary market from Asia). This makes the Asian stop a catch-22.


I had never considered ET feeding Europe from Australia. If anything it would be scraping the bottom of the barrel especially in light of strong established players in that space.The primary goal would indeed be to connect to African destinations.

eastafspot wrote:
evanb wrote:
As the A350 starts to take over a few more North American and Asian routes from the B788, it'll allow the B788s to add European capacity (just like we've seen with the recent additions of Geneva, Marseille and Moscow).

MRS *could* be considered as a low yield seasonal traffic compared to Nice/NCE (+ SVO/GVA; in your example), so why did they choose this city compared to BOD (Bordeaux) with a mixed population or BER/CPH? According to you, which European destination can sustain an ET 2nd daily flight - all year round?


MRS gives ET traffic that will feed its flights into Seychelles, Comoros, Madagascar. The last two have seen rapid growth for ET, and I expect them to expand further in the area with Mauritius, possibly Dzaoudzi (where KQ has flown for ages,) and Reunion if they decide to relax on protectionism.

evanb wrote:
I think they're still missing ZRH, a second German destination (MUC or TXL), return to AMS in terms of new flights.

They'd love to increase their LHR flights but the right slots of elusive and ET are not the type to overpay for slots. They might look to increase FRA instead of a second German destination. CDG and FCO are probably long shots.


ZRH might be a long ways away, even GVA with its ties to UN took this long to open up. ET has in recent history opted to open routes at Star hubs, even Vienna out of the blue is served almost daily. I dont't know if GVA or ZRH will give ET the connectivity options that it has enjoyed at other Star hubs given agreements that it may or may not have with Swiss. Recall that ET doesn't have such agreements with Brussels either.

LHR is too expensive to expand into with a more generic schedule, but they are making do. Up to 2x daily A350s is big for ET. In Germany, I expect MUC, not FRA for the latter is over served by LH and ET.

iadadd wrote:
berari wrote:
I have noticed how Ethiopian has slowly built up its service to Toronto. Having started with only 3 flights per week now up to five, and starting out with the B788, it's now flying the B77L. Of interest are loads this week, where seats in Y on ADD-YYZ sector are scarce, and it's not peak season yet.


I can imagine ET would love to fly daily into YYZ; however, as you may know Canada is very restrictive with giving traffic rights. ET only received its increase to 5x weekly in late 2017. So, only way ET can expand is by capacity increase.

With the promising loads, hopefully Canada will grant a further expansion of frequencies. Perhaps a codeshare between AC and ET could support ET's cause. The 2, despite being in Star Alliance, don't seem to cooperate that much.


ET has done very well at YYZ despite the restrictions. From 3 to now 5 flights a week, and yes, the capacity increase is how it can make it work going forward. Canada's argument when it comes to rights is about traffic between the two states, not onward traffic. At least that's what it has used with UAE in order to restrict EK and company. AC favours its transatlantic partnership with LH over anything else, and would avoid anything that would erode that unless it is comparable, and codeshares with ET out of LHR, CDG with ET placing its code out of those cities into YYZ also. Take an AC red eye out of western Canadian cities into YYZ and you will always see Ethiopia-bound pax boarding. I am looking at fares to ADD from Western Canada at peak December travel and seeing < $1100CAD all in with AC/ET via YYZ, which is historical low (about $820USD.)
 
evanb
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 4:10 pm

berari wrote:
I had never considered ET feeding Europe from Australia. If anything it would be scraping the bottom of the barrel especially in light of strong established players in that space.The primary goal would indeed be to connect to African destinations.


I agree. I was just making a point that any route to Australia would depend on ET's strategy in what they were trying to achieve. While ET would be scraping the bottom of the barrel in a very competitive market between Australia and Europe they do have the luxury of having a dramatically lower cost structure than any of the incumbent players.

berari wrote:
ZRH might be a long ways away, even GVA with its ties to UN took this long to open up. ET has in recent history opted to open routes at Star hubs, even Vienna out of the blue is served almost daily. I dont't know if GVA or ZRH will give ET the connectivity options that it has enjoyed at other Star hubs given agreements that it may or may not have with Swiss. Recall that ET doesn't have such agreements with Brussels either.


While ZRH and GVA are both in Switzerland, they're entirely different markets. GVA has a huge catchment area in eastern France. It is more France than Switzerland. It's not just about UN traffic. Also, for the most part, it has no incumbent long haul competition.

ZRH has a large LX long haul market, so just far more competition.
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 6:05 pm

evanb wrote:
While ZRH and GVA are both in Switzerland, they're entirely different markets. GVA has a huge catchment area in eastern France. It is more France than Switzerland. It's not just about UN traffic. Also, for the most part, it has no incumbent long haul competition.

ZRH has a large LX long haul market, so just far more competition.


And maybe the GVA link is what answer we can give to ET not flying to LYS, but instead choosing MRS.
 
evanb
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 9:56 pm

berari wrote:
And maybe the GVA link is what answer we can give to ET not flying to LYS, but instead choosing MRS.


Six of one, half a dozen of the other. MRS is the gateway to southern France, and France's restrictive bilaterals effectively restrict access to EK, EY and QR. Only TK and ET have access to MRS. So ET are just taking the gap in the market there.

But yes, ET chose GVA over LYS. Only EK and TK fly to both LYS and GVA.
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon May 27, 2019 10:59 pm

evanb wrote:
berari wrote:
And maybe the GVA link is what answer we can give to ET not flying to LYS, but instead choosing MRS.


Six of one, half a dozen of the other. MRS is the gateway to southern France, and France's restrictive bilaterals effectively restrict access to EK, EY and QR. Only TK and ET have access to MRS. So ET are just taking the gap in the market there.

But yes, ET chose GVA over LYS. Only EK and TK fly to both LYS and GVA.


You speak of France's restrictive bilaterals when it comes to EK, EY and QR. What are the terms? Is it because they have exhausted use of their rights on CDG?
 
pmartin
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue May 28, 2019 1:30 pm

[/quote]While ZRH and GVA are both in Switzerland, they're entirely different markets. GVA has a huge catchment area in eastern France[/quote]

True, GVA catchment area extends to France, but de facto, 70 to 75% of the traffic comes from / goes to Switzerland. mainly Haute Savoie and to a lesser extent Savoie and Ain. The leakage from Lyon and Grenoble is very small, a couple of %.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:31 pm

evanb wrote:
While ZRH and GVA are both in Switzerland, they're entirely different markets. GVA has a huge catchment area in eastern France. It is more France than Switzerland. It's not just about UN traffic. Also, for the most part, it has no incumbent long haul competition.

ZRH has a large LX long haul market, so just far more competition.


For once, we are both agreeing! :smile:
GVA can attract many travellers up to CFE or within a 3h distance range with the rail link & connecting - compared to LYS with the seasonal LH destinations, charters only or (twice?) daily to DXB or AF/KL/KQ influence.

berari wrote:
You speak of France's restrictive bilaterals when it comes to EK, EY and QR. What are the terms? Is it because they have exhausted use of their rights on CDG?

You, sadly, have the point here!

pmartin wrote:
The leakage from Lyon and Grenoble is very small, a couple of %.

Definitely more than what you can think off. Why do you think, some low cost coach companies started ops recently between LYS/GNB and around to GVA non stop?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:33 pm

:arrow: Ethiopian Airlines will be the last airline globally to resume flights with the Boeing 737 Max once it has been certified to return to the skies.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... gh-458605/

Does a such statement make sense?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
pmartin
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:50 am

eastafspot wrote:

pmartin wrote:
The leakage from Lyon and Grenoble is very small, a couple of %.

Definitely more than what you can think off. Why do you think, some low cost coach companies started ops recently between LYS/GNB and around to GVA non stop?


It is not much about what I think, but the hard fact.

Switzerland released data on that matter in 2015 (interplan report). Back then Lyon was sending 300,000 pax to GVA (out of 14.3, or 2%), and isere / Grenoble 200,000 (1.5%). And it is not a handful of buses per day that is changing anything.
 
mr02
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:52 am

eastafspot wrote:
:arrow: Ethiopian Airlines will be the last airline globally to resume flights with the Boeing 737 Max once it has been certified to return to the skies.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... gh-458605/

Does a such statement make sense?

Will they cancel their existing max 8 order due to the crash?
 
Blerg
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:53 am

mr02 wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
:arrow: Ethiopian Airlines will be the last airline globally to resume flights with the Boeing 737 Max once it has been certified to return to the skies.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... gh-458605/

Does a such statement make sense?

Will they cancel their existing max 8 order due to the crash?


It would make sense, I noticed that AZAL also cancelled their order.
 
berari
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:41 am

Ethiopian Airlines is starting 3x per week service to Amman, Jordan in July.
 
OlafW
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:36 am

berari wrote:
Ethiopian Airlines is starting 3x per week service to Amman, Jordan in July.


would be a great chance as I'm going to Jordan later this year. But seems it's not loaded yet.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:32 pm

Blerg wrote:
mr02 wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
:arrow: Ethiopian Airlines will be the last airline globally to resume flights with the Boeing 737 Max once it has been certified to return to the skies.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... gh-458605/

Does a such statement make sense?

Will they cancel their existing max 8 order due to the crash?


It would make sense, I noticed that AZAL also cancelled their order.

What they will take instead then?

berari wrote:
Ethiopian Airlines is starting 3x per week service to Amman, Jordan in July.

Impressive how ET is covering Middle East.
Just need Muscat and Kuwait City only (maybe soon), as AUH might drain out pax as being to close to DXB.
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
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eastafspot
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:16 pm

:arrow: Here, the results of the continental winners of the World Travel Awards 2019, which have been announced at the awards ceremony in Mauritius:

    * Africa's Leading Airline: Ethiopian Airlines
    * Africa's Leading Low-Cost Airline: Fastjet
    * Africa's Leading Economy Class: Kenya Airways
    * Africa's Leading Business Class: Kenya Airways
    * Africa's Leading Airport: Cape Town International Airport, South Africa

https://www.worldtravelawards.com/winners/2019/africa

Should these awards more accurate from a traveller's point of view than S*$trash ones? I have voted only once in 2017 or maybe 3 years ago only and exclusively in 3 categories overall, what about you guys?


:arrow: RwandAir axes the Kigali - Mombasa route:

The Rwandan carrier connected the coastal city of Kenya four times a week to Boeing 737 since 2010. Low profitability on the road seems to be the main reason for its closure.


Among the four trips done on this route since 2011 (three are reported here on A.net if you feel like searching a bit :wink2: ), only one had a disastrous LF - hint: not the one in A330. But, even though we were only 2 pax in J, the cabin crew was rude and clearly ineffecient moreover she kept discussing all flight long with a non rev pax seated at 1F :irked:

Overall, it's very sad for Kenyans/tourists as 5th freedom sectors DXB-MBA vv were dirt cheap, and now for Rwandans as no other way to travel than trough NBO and soon EBB or DAR. :crying:

https://newsaero.info/airlines/rwandair ... ?true=1850
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
mr02
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:17 am

They might not purchase any aircraft(if they cancel)or if they decide to buy,it might be the A220. They did mention buying some CSeries a few months ago.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4175
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:45 am

eastafspot wrote:
Blerg wrote:
mr02 wrote:
Will they cancel their existing max 8 order due to the crash?


It would make sense, I noticed that AZAL also cancelled their order.

What they will take instead then?

berari wrote:
Ethiopian Airlines is starting 3x per week service to Amman, Jordan in July.

Impressive how ET is covering Middle East.
Just need Muscat and Kuwait City only (maybe soon), as AUH might drain out pax as being to close to DXB.


My guess is that AZAL might stick to A320s, maybe switch to neo. Who knows with them, they are not a commercially run business.


By the way, any news on how Fastjet is doing?
 
mr02
Posts: 190
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Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:32 pm

Blerg wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
Blerg wrote:

It would make sense, I noticed that AZAL also cancelled their order.

What they will take instead then?

berari wrote:
Ethiopian Airlines is starting 3x per week service to Amman, Jordan in July.

Impressive how ET is covering Middle East.
Just need Muscat and Kuwait City only (maybe soon), as AUH might drain out pax as being to close to DXB.


My guess is that AZAL might stick to A320s, maybe switch to neo. Who knows with them, they are not a commercially run business.


By the way, any news on how Fastjet is doing?

They deferred their South African launch to 2020. I heard their Zimbabwe operations are profitable but the currency shortage in Zimbabwe is hampering expansion. As for Mozambique,they teamed up with LAM to better compete with Ethiopian Mozambique. Tanzania, they're non-existant.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4175
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: East African Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:39 pm

mr02 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
What they will take instead then?


Impressive how ET is covering Middle East.
Just need Muscat and Kuwait City only (maybe soon), as AUH might drain out pax as being to close to DXB.


My guess is that AZAL might stick to A320s, maybe switch to neo. Who knows with them, they are not a commercially run business.


By the way, any news on how Fastjet is doing?

They deferred their South African launch to 2020. I heard their Zimbabwe operations are profitable but the currency shortage in Zimbabwe is hampering expansion. As for Mozambique,they teamed up with LAM to better compete with Ethiopian Mozambique. Tanzania, they're non-existant.


Thank you, I appreciate your input as they are an airline which interests me quite a bit but there aren't that many information about them. How come they are non-existent in Mozambique? Isn't that where they initially started their operations?
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