• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 9
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:05 pm

Happy new year everyone. Hope all is well. Decided to start a Philadelphia thread for the new year to see what everyone’s thoughts were and have good discussion.

My predictions for 2019:

- More AA announcements for mostly domestic route additions and few cancellations
-Typically August or September international announcements for 2020 by AA
- 1-2 more international routes switched to 787 by October
-Slim chance of QR upguage to a Qsuites aircraft
-Frontier usual dartboard route selections
-Spirit continues to add 1-2 more routes
-Possible TAP Portugal 321LR service end of 2019 or 2020
-Delta service to Seattle
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
User avatar
757usairways
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:31 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:41 pm

What I could see happening for PHL
AA: adds KEF, TLV, WAW, or MXP, and adds more southern and Midwest destinations. Adds more B787 service to existing B767 routes.
F9: just adds some new routes, hope they expand past DEN.
DL: adds SEA
AS: adds seasonal SAN
DY: adds LGW on A321neoLR
LH: announces MUC for 2020 start
Some type of Asian service it brought up or is considered to start in 2020.
I know all of these won’t be added but just some of my thoughts.
Last edited by 757usairways on Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
757usairways
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:31 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:43 pm

757usairways wrote:
What I could see happening for PHL
AA: adds KEF, TLV, WAW, or MXP, and adds more southern and Midwest destinations. Adds more B787 service to existing B767 routes.
F9: just adds some new routes, hope they expand past DEN.
DL: adds SEA
AS: adds seasonal SAN
DY: adds LGW on A321neoLR
LH: announces MUC for 2020 start
Some type of Asian service it brought up or is considered to start in 2020.
I know all of these won’t be added but just some of my thoughts.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6693
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:52 pm

TAP? Doubtful with EWR up the road (and IAD nearby) add AA flying the route and little to no connections in PHL for TP.
I can see AA adding KEF for 2020
Saturday only service on PHL-STI
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:11 pm

757usairways wrote:
What I could see happening for PHL
AA: adds KEF, TLV, WAW, or MXP, and adds more southern and Midwest destinations. Adds more B787 service to existing B767 routes.
F9: just adds some new routes, hope they expand past DEN.
DL: adds SEA
AS: adds seasonal SAN
DY: adds LGW on A321neoLR
LH: announces MUC for 2020 start
Some type of Asian service it brought up or is considered to start in 2020.
I know all of these won’t be added but just some of my thoughts.


I’ve also thought AS would start SAN just hopeful it on there radar as an option. As for DY I know they mentioned wanting to start LGW which would be great I just wonder with their financial issues if this would happen now or get pushed back with all the cuts
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:14 pm

chepos wrote:
TAP? Doubtful with EWR up the road (and IAD nearby) add AA flying the route and little to no connections in PHL for TP.
I can see AA adding KEF for 2020
Saturday only service on PHL-STI


I just mentioned TAP because in a flight global article granted it was from 2017 they mentioned IAD, PHL and Montreal as potential destinations. Wishful thinking tho. I do agree I can see KEF service starting. It makes sense especially for layover reasons
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
OslPhlWasChi
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 6:06 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:58 pm

On AA 787s at PHL - I would not expect any additional 787s to actually begin service in 2019 beyond the already announced MAN and ZRH in November though I do expect many more announcements that will begin in 2020, particularly regarding some of the remaining 763 summer TATL routes. Additional 788s start arriving in early 2020, which should help with phasing out the 763 routes. The 788s are perhaps a little underutilized during the winter season, hence they have scheduled the first two routes already, but I wouldn't expect them to find other 788s prior to receiving new frames in 2020.

But I do have a few questions about the transition from the 763 to 788:
1. They say only 5 763s will remain at the end of 2020, but how many 788s are scheduled to come in 2020 let alone before the summer seasonal routes start up?
2. Will the final 5 763s be at PHL or MIA?
3. The 788s are a 25 seat up gauge over the 763s, mostly up front (minus 8 business and adding 28 PE). The 763s in summer 2019 will fly ZRH, AMS, BUD, LIS, TXL, BLQ, & DBV. Can all these routes fill a 788?
4. Or will we see more 332 routes shifted to the 788? In summer 2019, 332s are flying to CDG, MAN, DUB, MAD, BCN, and PRG.
5. Will routes also utilize the LAA 752 in winter and 788 in summer? The A321neo could maybe be an option but it appears those are going to the western hubs first.

I can't image there are all that many 788s coming in the first two quarters of 2020 but 5 frames would be needed to completely replace all the summer 763 routes in 2020. Also, I imagine the annual TATL route announcements and adjustments will have an impact on what we see in 2020 (i.e. could TXL increase to daily, perhaps BLQ & DBV don't live up to expectations, rebalancing MXP from JFK, or maybe a WAW or TLV really does get announced).

However, perhaps the possibilities for announcements in 2019 (to begin in the first half of 2020) are:
- AMS to be LAA 752 in winter and a 788 in the summer (April through October). AMS is the only TATL route currently served by a 763 that I am really optimistic will be announced in 2019 as switching to the 788.
- The remaining 763 TATL routes are all summer seasonal and of them maybe LIS is the strongest and we will see how TXL does but I imagine it can support more that the 4x weekly 763 it is scheduled for in 2019.
- PRG and BUD will be in their 3rd season in 2020 and more matured markets so perhaps they can support the 788; I think the 788 is better for PRG than the 332 but that means another 788 frame is needed.
- As for BLQ and DBV, it will be interesting to see how these do in 2019 but are these even in range for a 752 and could be down gauged? At their 2019 frequencies, they can be served by a single frame. If these routes come back, I imagine they are most likely to remain on the 763 one more year.
- I don't see any of the other 332 routes shifting to the 788 but there are hypothetical new TATL routes that could be best served by the 788.

**I realize some of this has been discussed before in the AA 2018 route and fleet update threads. Feel free to ignore if this is redundant.
 
acentauri
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:46 am

My prediction for 2059, a PHL inter-terminal People Mover :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:51 am

I do agree the 787 would be a better fit for PRG route long term. The 332 def should and assume be used for mainly international business oriented routes like LHR and CDG while 788 should be used for AMS like you mentioned and other leisure oriented routes
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:58 am

acentauri wrote:
My prediction for 2059, a PHL inter-terminal People Mover :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Lol that will be the day.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
jplatts
Posts: 2715
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:27 am

757usairways wrote:
What I could see happening for PHL
DL: adds SEA


I agree that DL adding PHL-SEA nonstop service might happen since PHL is one of the top destinations traveled to from SEA that isn't already served nonstop from SEA on DL.
 
N292UX
Posts: 423
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:35 am

Predictions for 2019:
-AA adds PHL-MXP
-A few domestic cuts for AA. Think PHL-CAK/CRW will get canned. I also think AA will add a few domestic routes along with those cuts. Maybe PHL-DAB/JAN/ICT could be candidates.
-F9 keeps adding the dartboard routes
-DL adds SEA-PHL
-A possibility of either AF or KL announcing PHL starting in 2020.
-NK adds PHL-AUS
-PHL-MEM sees AA mainline
 
usairways85
Posts: 4025
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:36 am

Isn't there a higher cost of ownership associated with the 787, thus for a 787 route to be most profitable it has to have a higher revenue?

While I think there might be gauge changes between winter and summer, the LAA 752 has been a risky move on TA flights in the winter. UA finally caught onto this. At least several westbound flights a month have been diverted due to winds and low fuel.

I'd like to see EI upgauge to a 332.

I don't see TP at PHL. All of their expansion as been at *A UA hubs.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:20 am

Bigant0408 wrote:
acentauri wrote:
My prediction for 2059, a PHL inter-terminal People Mover :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Lol that will be the day


Construction after considerable delays will be finish in the year 2100 :lol:

jplatts wrote:
757usairways wrote:
What I could see happening for PHL
DL: adds SEA


I agree that DL adding PHL-SEA nonstop service might happen since PHL is one of the top destinations traveled to from SEA that isn't already served nonstop from SEA on DL.


AS recently added a second daily to SEA for this summer so this might be realistic (really hope so).
 
acentauri
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:38 am

usairways85 wrote:
....

I'd like to see EI upgauge to a 332.......

An EI 332 upgrade (supplementing AA's 332 on the route) is a possibility now that Aer Lingus has formally filed to join the Oneworld transatlantic joint venture.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:18 am

AA has moved several 763s onto domestic PHL flying. I just returned PHL-LAS this past week in First and what a disappointing 5.5 hour flight. Although I found the interior of the aircraft I was on surprising in very nice shape, the complete lack of any IFE is totally unacceptable. Evidently, once these international 763s go domestic, without the DigEplayer's available, you lose the capability to even use your own device. Despite downloading the App and doing everything I was told to do, the FA's confirmed there is zero entertainment available on this aircraft aside from what is being played on the drop down monitor.

While I realize this is a PHL thread, it is a disservice to this city to be subjected to an airline that is really stuck in the dark ages of onboard service.
 
TheFlyGuy
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:10 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:26 am

Thanks for starting this thread, Bigant0408.

Here are some routes I see as possible announcements in 2019 (many already predicted by fellow posters):

Domestic
-SBN
-TOL
-DAB (likely seasonal...akin to EYW, MLB, SRQ announced in 2018)
-LIT
-PIA or MLI
-GRB or ATW
-AUG
-SJC or return of SMF which US once flew seasonally
-AS or AA making PDX year-round
-Wild cards: TUL, ICT, TLH, CID

International
-DUS might fill the void left by the demise of AB and discontinuance of FRA and MUC from PHL, also serves the large Rhine-Ruhr region, a major business market.
-MXP
-TLV (despite AA cancelling this route after the merger as it was reportedly due to profitability, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it reinstated)
-As a previous poster suggesteed, perhaps seasonal &/or weekend service to STI, BGI or another Caribbean destination
 
crownvic
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:33 am

Are there any updates on the terminal re-build or is it all on hold? As AA has thinned out the RJ flying there, it does seem much quieter in recent time with less airport traffic.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2826
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:20 am

Is there really enough connecting traffic to justify a PHL-TLV route year-round or even seasonal, when there are more options by driving to EWR? Starting S19, there will be as many as 1248 seats available on certain days on EWR-TLV.

I would instead wonder if a route to NRT would be better worth it.
 
acentauri
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:55 am

TheFlyGuy wrote:
............-TLV (despite AA cancelling this route after the merger as it was reportedly due to profitability, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it reinstated)..............

If the route was canceled due to profitability, as stated by AA (which I profoundly doubt), why wasn't it moved to JFK, ORD, MIA or even LAX, or suspended seasonally, rather than essentially quitting Israel all together and handing it over to DL/UA ? I mean if AA can make ORD/PHL-ATH work seasonally, they sure should easily be able to make slightly further TLV work. I speculate that PHL-TLV will return NLT 2nd Qtr 2020.
 
acentauri
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:38 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Is there really enough connecting traffic to justify a PHL-TLV route year-round or even seasonal, when there are more options by driving to EWR? Starting S19, there will be as many as 1248 seats available on certain days on EWR-TLV.
I would instead wonder if a route to NRT would be better worth it.


The entire AA network (via PHL in this case) surely supports sufficient traffic to Israel. Philadelphia has 275K Jews, about the same as Chicago and San Francisco, less than Miami, LA and far, far less than NYC, but more than BOS and DC/BAL. All the rest fall behind. How many of those 1248 seats are the result of no PHL-TLV flight?
There are other existing options on AA from the U.S. to Japan, there are zero non-stop options to Israel.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:07 pm

TheFlyGuy wrote:
Thanks for starting this thread, Bigant0408.



No problem. I figure since other cities started to have threads why not Philly.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:20 pm

I've seen in other threads of the idea of TK starting service to Istanbul with TK having gate issues with EWR for timing of service. I highly doubt TK would serve PHL overall even with a 787 or 359 in OW dominated hub. Thoughts?
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
lowfareair
Posts: 259
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:21 pm

I agree with most here, especially likely AA announcements of KEF and possibly MXP at least seasonally, MUC on LH, EI upgauging to the A330, and I think SkyTeam will add a European flight to AMS/CDG. I agree with aemoreira1981 that TYO is a possibility, but not very likely.

Two not on here yet that I expect to be announced this year is OPO as a summer seasonal - it fits the model of what AA has for vacation seekers perfectly. Also CMN has been hinted at strongly with the new RAM partnership in OW and would provide a strong connection point to Northern Africa - not sure which carrier would fly it though.

One more with low odds of happening, but not a shock, is HEL to connect with AY and provide better Asia feed from PHL.

The biggest fleet announcement that could impact PHL well beyond 2019 is whether AA will equip some 321neos with lie-flat seats for select transcon routes and the ability to connect smaller destinations in Western Europe with PHL. The BA Joint Venture forbids TATL flights without lieflat business seats, so this would be needed for any smaller cities to start.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4025
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:34 pm

CDG-PHL on SkyTeam went from year round AF, to seasonal DL on their smallest TA aircraft, to cancelled (only a year ago). I think ST made the decision to move on from the PHL international market for now.

It's worth noting that UPS has renewed their emphasis on PHL with cargo up close to 25% YoY. Maybe a UPS PHL-ANC or other international flights.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:03 pm

usairways85 wrote:
CDG-PHL on SkyTeam went from year round AF, to seasonal DL on their smallest TA aircraft, to cancelled (only a year ago). I think ST made the decision to move on from the PHL international market for now.

It's worth noting that UPS has renewed their emphasis on PHL with cargo up close to 25% YoY. Maybe a UPS PHL-ANC or other international flights.


Great point on the cargo aspect. It'll def increase even more in upcoming years with the acquisition of land the airport just bought for cargo expansion
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:00 pm

usairways85 wrote:
CDG-PHL on SkyTeam went from year round AF, to seasonal DL on their smallest TA aircraft, to cancelled (only a year ago). I think ST made the decision to move on from the PHL international market for now.

It's worth noting that UPS has renewed their emphasis on PHL with cargo up close to 25% YoY. Maybe a UPS PHL-ANC or other international flights.



Its sad that SkyTeam gave up on PHL, but understand why. Though it's interesting that the PHL-BOS is going up to 6 times daily, so maybe there is a need for the ST? It would be hard for the ST to restart service in PHL because of AA taking up a lot of the gates for the summer season.

It will be interesting to see what PHL will do with the cargo operations especially with the new acquired land in 5 years time.
 
User avatar
757usairways
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:31 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:12 pm

Since PHL will be getting a B787 base in 2020, I wouldn’t be surprised if AA adds a third daily LHR flight possibly another evening departure or possibly bring back that morning departure we had in 2015.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:09 am

crownvic wrote:
Are there any updates on the terminal re-build or is it all on hold? As AA has thinned out the RJ flying there, it does seem much quieter in recent time with less airport traffic.


Curious what terminals for and which one? Do you mean Terminal B and C? Its been super quiet on that front.

I know if they want too the airport can take down the building to the west of Terminal A-west if the airport needed expansion. All I know is no third runway parallel is coming.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:26 am

PHLspecial wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Are there any updates on the terminal re-build or is it all on hold? As AA has thinned out the RJ flying there, it does seem much quieter in recent time with less airport traffic.


Curious what terminals for and which one? Do you mean Terminal B and C? Its been super quiet on that front.

I know if they want too the airport can take down the building to the west of Terminal A-west if the airport needed expansion. All I know is no third runway parallel is coming.


I was referring to the entire new master plan that was promoted just a couple of years ago. Has the whole thing been scrapped along with the 3rd parallel?
 
User avatar
caoimhin
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:30 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:36 am

757usairways wrote:
Since PHL will be getting a B787 base in 2020, I wouldn’t be surprised if AA adds a third daily LHR flight possibly another evening departure or possibly bring back that morning departure we had in 2015.


Have BA returned to twice daily (66/67, 68/69)?
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:49 am

caoimhin wrote:
757usairways wrote:
Since PHL will be getting a B787 base in 2020, I wouldn’t be surprised if AA adds a third daily LHR flight possibly another evening departure or possibly bring back that morning departure we had in 2015.


Have BA returned to twice daily (66/67, 68/69)?


BA will start there second 3x weekly service in April or May on a 777-300 which is a upgauge from 787-9 they used last summer
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
usairways85
Posts: 4025
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:05 am

caoimhin wrote:
757usairways wrote:
Since PHL will be getting a B787 base in 2020, I wouldn’t be surprised if AA adds a third daily LHR flight possibly another evening departure or possibly bring back that morning departure we had in 2015.


Have BA returned to twice daily (66/67, 68/69)?

68/69 only operate in the summer season.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:01 pm

crownvic wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Are there any updates on the terminal re-build or is it all on hold? As AA has thinned out the RJ flying there, it does seem much quieter in recent time with less airport traffic.


Curious what terminals for and which one? Do you mean Terminal B and C? Its been super quiet on that front.

I know if they want too the airport can take down the building to the west of Terminal A-west if the airport needed expansion. All I know is no third runway parallel is coming.


I was referring to the entire new master plan that was promoted just a couple of years ago. Has the whole thing been scrapped along with the 3rd parallel?


http://www.phl.org/Pages/Chellie%27s-Podcasts.aspx

http://cdp.phl.org/AnticipatedOpportunities.html

Well here is some information about the project updates but it doesn't provide a roadmap for long term future expansion.

The first link is a podcast about current construction projects.
The second link is information about upcoming construction projects. Its interesting to note one of the PDF is listing for a profession consulting to complete the PHL master plan. I really don't know what that means but PHL is still working on the plan so its not dead yet.
 
OslPhlWasChi
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 6:06 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:01 pm

Duplicate post.
Last edited by OslPhlWasChi on Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
OslPhlWasChi
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 6:06 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:05 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
I was referring to the entire new master plan that was promoted just a couple of years ago. Has the whole thing been scrapped along with the 3rd parallel?

http://www.phl.org/Pages/Chellie%27s-Podcasts.aspx

http://cdp.phl.org/AnticipatedOpportunities.html

Well here is some information about the project updates but it doesn't provide a roadmap for long term future expansion.

The first link is a podcast about current construction projects.
The second link is information about upcoming construction projects. Its interesting to note one of the PDF is listing for a profession consulting to complete the PHL master plan. I really don't know what that means but PHL is still working on the plan so its not dead yet.


On an upcoming master planning process - my guess is not that they are working on continuing the existing plan but making new/alternate/adjusted plans for the future. The existing Capacity Enhancement Program is based on planning from before 2005 (it took some 5+ years afterwards of dealing with lawsuits from the neighboring township and getting federal approvalsand now the plan has been only marginally advanced in the first 5+ years since it was approved). It was a different era hence why the major elements were a new terminal for RJs and the additional runway - both which are clearly not the major needs at PHL now/in the future.

Maybe I am projecting, and sadly it means an even longer period before major upgrades come, but I hope any upcoming planning processes result in something very different than the current master plan.[/quote]
 
RainerBoeing777
Posts: 395
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:35 pm

My predictions for PHL are:
Lufthansa is obviously going to launch MUC-PHL
American Airlines is going to move Milan (MXP) from JFK to PHL
A new daily flight to London Heathrow between American and British
A new Asian destination JAL with NRT-PHL or American / China Southern with PHL-PEK
New routes with the Airbus A321neo as BHX, GLA, OPO, AGP, BRU, NCE, NAP, WAW, HEL, DUS
American will return Tel Aviv (TLV) with the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
RainerBoeing777
Posts: 395
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:36 pm

My predictions for PHL are:
Lufthansa is obviously going to launch MUC-PHL
American Airlines is going to move Milan (MXP) from JFK to PHL
A new daily flight to London Heathrow between American and British
A new Asian destination JAL with NRT-PHL or American / China Southern with PHL-PEK
New routes with the Airbus A321neo as BHX, GLA, OPO, AGP, BRU, NCE, NAP, WAW, HEL, DUS
American will return Tel Aviv (TLV) with the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:13 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
My predictions for PHL are:
Lufthansa is obviously going to launch MUC-PHL
American Airlines is going to move Milan (MXP) from JFK to PHL
A new daily flight to London Heathrow between American and British
A new Asian destination JAL with NRT-PHL or American / China Southern with PHL-PEK
New routes with the Airbus A321neo as BHX, GLA, OPO, AGP, BRU, NCE, NAP, WAW, HEL, DUS
American will return Tel Aviv (TLV) with the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner


Good predictions. I feel JAL would be the first Asian service if it ever happens (not holding my breath). As for the 321neos I know majority of them will be based on west coast but hey anything’s possible with the way aviation is today. I definitely agree with MXP service. Have a feeling it’ll be switched from JFK
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
cha747
Posts: 796
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:07 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:49 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
My predictions for PHL are:
Lufthansa is obviously going to launch MUC-PHL
American Airlines is going to move Milan (MXP) from JFK to PHL
A new daily flight to London Heathrow between American and British
A new Asian destination JAL with NRT-PHL or American / China Southern with PHL-PEK
New routes with the Airbus A321neo as BHX, GLA, OPO, AGP, BRU, NCE, NAP, WAW, HEL, DUS
American will return Tel Aviv (TLV) with the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner


Great predictions. I hope that there is more movement on the BA side of things because long haul connections on BA arriving on any airline other than BA is problematic.

As far as Asian routes, I don't think it makes sense for JAL, China Southern, or any other Asian carrier to come to PHL when AA already rules the roost. Why can't a host of early-afternoon trans-pac departures from AA include destinations like NRT, PEK, and HKG? That way there are connection options both ways with a late afternoon/early evening arrival into Asia. This could be perfectly timed so that morning departures from Asia arrive in the morning at PHL for connection opportunities the remainder of the day.

And now I'll get lambasted for suggesting that PHL could handle more than one Asian destination or for the fact that PHL could even dream of being an Asian gateway for AA.
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
acentauri
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:47 am

cha747 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
My predictions for PHL are:
As far as Asian routes, I don't think it makes sense for JAL, China Southern, or any other Asian carrier to come to PHL when AA already rules the roost.................
And now I'll get lambasted for suggesting that PHL could handle more than one Asian destination or for the fact that PHL could even dream of being an Asian gateway for AA.

It's not really a matter of PHL "handling" more than say NRT, it's a matter of AA/JAL being able to profitably re-align the current US- Asian network to include PHL and its connecting traffic, without hurting other existing, heavier NE O&D markets, such as BOS, DC and NYC, which still depend (to a lesser extent) on connecting traffic to remain viable year round.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:49 am

OslPhlWasChi wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
I was referring to the entire new master plan that was promoted just a couple of years ago. Has the whole thing been scrapped along with the 3rd parallel?

http://www.phl.org/Pages/Chellie%27s-Podcasts.aspx

http://cdp.phl.org/AnticipatedOpportunities.html

Well here is some information about the project updates but it doesn't provide a roadmap for long term future expansion.

The first link is a podcast about current construction projects.
The second link is information about upcoming construction projects. Its interesting to note one of the PDF is listing for a profession consulting to complete the PHL master plan. I really don't know what that means but PHL is still working on the plan so its not dead yet.


On an upcoming master planning process - my guess is not that they are working on continuing the existing plan but making new/alternate/adjusted plans for the future. The existing Capacity Enhancement Program is based on planning from before 2005 (it took some 5+ years afterwards of dealing with lawsuits from the neighboring township and getting federal approvalsand now the plan has been only marginally advanced in the first 5+ years since it was approved). It was a different era hence why the major elements were a new terminal for RJs and the additional runway - both which are clearly not the major needs at PHL now/in the future.

Maybe I am projecting, and sadly it means an even longer period before major upgrades come, but I hope any upcoming planning processes result in something very different than the current master plan.
[/quote]

Thank you both. It really seams that things have gotten quiet on this master plan. I wonder if it has anything to do with AA's changing philosophies at PHL. As we all know, AA has changed their direction at PHL a few times over the past 5 years. RJ flying reduced, while changing to less frequency with bigger aircraft. Not really sure though what influence the largest airline at a given airport has with airport management decisions. AA at PHL (or their other hubs, for that matter) is not DL at ATL where their presence is assured along with growth. I sometimes wonder if PHL management is sitting it out until they get a better grip on AA's long term plans. Nobody wants a PIT situation on their hands like what happened when US shut that hub down.
 
lowfareair
Posts: 259
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:47 pm

crownvic wrote:
OslPhlWasChi wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
I was referring to the entire new master plan that was promoted just a couple of years ago. Has the whole thing been scrapped along with the 3rd parallel?

http://www.phl.org/Pages/Chellie%27s-Podcasts.aspx

http://cdp.phl.org/AnticipatedOpportunities.html

Well here is some information about the project updates but it doesn't provide a roadmap for long term future expansion.

The first link is a podcast about current construction projects.
The second link is information about upcoming construction projects. Its interesting to note one of the PDF is listing for a profession consulting to complete the PHL master plan. I really don't know what that means but PHL is still working on the plan so its not dead yet.


On an upcoming master planning process - my guess is not that they are working on continuing the existing plan but making new/alternate/adjusted plans for the future. The existing Capacity Enhancement Program is based on planning from before 2005 (it took some 5+ years afterwards of dealing with lawsuits from the neighboring township and getting federal approvalsand now the plan has been only marginally advanced in the first 5+ years since it was approved). It was a different era hence why the major elements were a new terminal for RJs and the additional runway - both which are clearly not the major needs at PHL now/in the future.

Maybe I am projecting, and sadly it means an even longer period before major upgrades come, but I hope any upcoming planning processes result in something very different than the current master plan.


Thank you both. It really seams that things have gotten quiet on this master plan. I wonder if it has anything to do with AA's changing philosophies at PHL. As we all know, AA has changed their direction at PHL a few times over the past 5 years. RJ flying reduced, while changing to less frequency with bigger aircraft. Not really sure though what influence the largest airline at a given airport has with airport management decisions. AA at PHL (or their other hubs, for that matter) is not DL at ATL where their presence is assured along with growth. I sometimes wonder if PHL management is sitting it out until they get a better grip on AA's long term plans. Nobody wants a PIT situation on their hands like what happened when US shut that hub down.


It's all down to AA not wanting higher costs with little benefit to them. They aren't expecting to materially grow PHL and the upgauging of planes + downgauging of daily flights means the airport isn't at capacity runway-wise like they were a decade ago. The biggest hurdle now is widebody gates for Europe but that could be easily solved by AA splitting their int'l flights into 2 banks. Any airport growth means higher enplanement costs to pay for the construction plus the opportunity for ULCCs to start a larger operation.

I could see something like this happen, however:

    Terminal F is upsized to have larger regional jets and maybe even small mainline planes to utilize the gates
    Increase back to 7-8 banks from the current 6 with fewer flights per bank
    Reduction in flights and migration of 175s to F lets the East side of B and West side of C to be closed to allow a new, wide single terminal built between them
    New terminal opens in phases with ~24 gates as B/C demolished
    2 alleyways between all terminals, greatly reducing clogging

Depending on the overall growth at PHL, a Terminal G or A-Far-West could be built at some point to replace the reduction of gates in the new terminal.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4025
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:43 pm

If there was a project that hasn't been a priority (with interior renovations slowly but surely progressing especially at B & C) I'd say the entire rental car area needs to be rebuilt. It is really in a sad state. Other airports have built expansive garages to house all rental car agencies and cars to eliminate the little shacks that PHL has and the tetris games the workers are required to play.

And the rental car area takes up a ton of land. They could add a ~5 story garage on a fraction of the land and re-purpose the rest for whatever.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:52 pm

usairways85 wrote:
If there was a project that hasn't been a priority (with interior renovations slowly but surely progressing especially at B & C) I'd say the entire rental car area needs to be rebuilt. It is really in a sad state. Other airports have built expansive garages to house all rental car agencies and cars to eliminate the little shacks that PHL has and the tetris games the workers are required to play.

And the rental car area takes up a ton of land. They could add a ~5 story garage on a fraction of the land and re-purpose the rest for whatever.


I know their were talks about building a rental car garage but I have heard much about it thus far. I agree this should happen as the rest of the land can be used for extension of the of cell lot amount other things.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:04 pm

usairways85 wrote:
If there was a project that hasn't been a priority (with interior renovations slowly but surely progressing especially at B & C) I'd say the entire rental car area needs to be rebuilt. It is really in a sad state. Other airports have built expansive garages to house all rental car agencies and cars to eliminate the little shacks that PHL has and the tetris games the workers are required to play.

And the rental car area takes up a ton of land. They could add a ~5 story garage on a fraction of the land and re-purpose the rest for whatever.



http://www.aroraengineers.com/project/d ... ty-conrac/

It seems like PHL did study to build a 7 story garage.

Ground Level – access to Ground Transportation, the Automated People Mover system, through traffic and exiting traffic from the public garages
2nd Level – Customer Service Building (the primary facility portal where consumers interact with rental car providers), the display and servicing of 1,425 rental vehicles
3rd and 4th Level – the display and servicing of 3,000 rental vehicles
5th and 6th Level – Public Parking for 3,680 vehicles for the Philadelphia Parking Authority
7th Level – Either Public Parking for 1,840 vehicles or rental vehicle backlog storage of 2,900 vehicles

I'm guessing this was done a long time ago. It's going to be at least 10 years before we see the start of construction.
 
User avatar
phlsfo
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:18 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:23 pm

cha747 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
My predictions for PHL are:
Lufthansa is obviously going to launch MUC-PHL
American Airlines is going to move Milan (MXP) from JFK to PHL
A new daily flight to London Heathrow between American and British
A new Asian destination JAL with NRT-PHL or American / China Southern with PHL-PEK
New routes with the Airbus A321neo as BHX, GLA, OPO, AGP, BRU, NCE, NAP, WAW, HEL, DUS
American will return Tel Aviv (TLV) with the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner


Great predictions. I hope that there is more movement on the BA side of things because long haul connections on BA arriving on any airline other than BA is problematic.

As far as Asian routes, I don't think it makes sense for JAL, China Southern, or any other Asian carrier to come to PHL when AA already rules the roost. Why can't a host of early-afternoon trans-pac departures from AA include destinations like NRT, PEK, and HKG? That way there are connection options both ways with a late afternoon/early evening arrival into Asia. This could be perfectly timed so that morning departures from Asia arrive in the morning at PHL for connection opportunities the remainder of the day.

And now I'll get lambasted for suggesting that PHL could handle more than one Asian destination or for the fact that PHL could even dream of being an Asian gateway for AA.


Something that I think a lot of people here are not considering is where these extra transatlantic flights and potentially transpacific flights will go? A-West in the evenings is already over capacity, with AA shuffling aircraft around to make room for all the arrivals, having to use remote parking stands for some international arrivals, and even QR is towing to a remote stand while on the ground. Most gates in A-West in the afternoon are in constant use. Unless they plan on adding morning flights, it is going to be difficult to make more room without drastic changes.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:06 pm

phlsfo wrote:
cha747 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
My predictions for PHL are:
Lufthansa is obviously going to launch MUC-PHL
American Airlines is going to move Milan (MXP) from JFK to PHL
A new daily flight to London Heathrow between American and British
A new Asian destination JAL with NRT-PHL or American / China Southern with PHL-PEK
New routes with the Airbus A321neo as BHX, GLA, OPO, AGP, BRU, NCE, NAP, WAW, HEL, DUS
American will return Tel Aviv (TLV) with the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner


Great predictions. I hope that there is more movement on the BA side of things because long haul connections on BA arriving on any airline other than BA is problematic.

As far as Asian routes, I don't think it makes sense for JAL, China Southern, or any other Asian carrier to come to PHL when AA already rules the roost. Why can't a host of early-afternoon trans-pac departures from AA include destinations like NRT, PEK, and HKG? That way there are connection options both ways with a late afternoon/early evening arrival into Asia. This could be perfectly timed so that morning departures from Asia arrive in the morning at PHL for connection opportunities the remainder of the day.

And now I'll get lambasted for suggesting that PHL could handle more than one Asian destination or for the fact that PHL could even dream of being an Asian gateway for AA.


Something that I think a lot of people here are not considering is where these extra transatlantic flights and potentially transpacific flights will go? A-West in the evenings is already over capacity, with AA shuffling aircraft around to make room for all the arrivals, having to use remote parking stands for some international arrivals, and even QR is towing to a remote stand while on the ground. Most gates in A-West in the afternoon are in constant use. Unless they plan on adding morning flights, it is going to be difficult to make more room without drastic changes.


I always thought about that too. Do you or anyone else know the gate usage between 9-11pm at A-West? Maybe that could be a second bank of translantic flights to more leisure friendly destinations. I can’t really see A-west gate expansion the way it’s desgned but who knows
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6693
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:20 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
phlsfo wrote:
cha747 wrote:

Great predictions. I hope that there is more movement on the BA side of things because long haul connections on BA arriving on any airline other than BA is problematic.

As far as Asian routes, I don't think it makes sense for JAL, China Southern, or any other Asian carrier to come to PHL when AA already rules the roost. Why can't a host of early-afternoon trans-pac departures from AA include destinations like NRT, PEK, and HKG? That way there are connection options both ways with a late afternoon/early evening arrival into Asia. This could be perfectly timed so that morning departures from Asia arrive in the morning at PHL for connection opportunities the remainder of the day.

And now I'll get lambasted for suggesting that PHL could handle more than one Asian destination or for the fact that PHL could even dream of being an Asian gateway for AA.


Something that I think a lot of people here are not considering is where these extra transatlantic flights and potentially transpacific flights will go? A-West in the evenings is already over capacity, with AA shuffling aircraft around to make room for all the arrivals, having to use remote parking stands for some international arrivals, and even QR is towing to a remote stand while on the ground. Most gates in A-West in the afternoon are in constant use. Unless they plan on adding morning flights, it is going to be difficult to make more room without drastic changes.


I always thought about that too. Do you or anyone else know the gate usage between 9-11pm at A-West? Maybe that could be a second bank of translantic flights to more leisure friendly destinations. I can’t really see A-west gate expansion the way it’s desgned but who knows


During the busy summer season all AA TA flights when operating on time are gone by 1000 pm. After that time the BA late evening LHR is the last long haul departure out of A terminal. The complication is the Caribbean international arrivals come in from 600 pm on taking up space at CBP capable gates, coupled with the European arrivals it makes for a busy place.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
usairways85
Posts: 4025
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:30 pm

phlsfo wrote:
Something that I think a lot of people here are not considering is where these extra transatlantic flights and potentially transpacific flights will go? A-West in the evenings is already over capacity, with AA shuffling aircraft around to make room for all the arrivals, having to use remote parking stands for some international arrivals, and even QR is towing to a remote stand while on the ground. Most gates in A-West in the afternoon are in constant use. Unless they plan on adding morning flights, it is going to be difficult to make more room without drastic changes.

A few things here:

That crazy high utilization is a good thing. Observe any busy airport during an international rush and there is a lot of movement from the gate to a remote stand back to a gate, towing from maintenance facilities, etc. AA does not want QR to sit at an A-west gate for 6 hours between flights.

My understanding is that the remote stands were only used for 1 or 2 arrivals and not for departures. Not ideal but I wouldn't be surprised if AA thinks that they can add more flights before things really start bursting at the seams.

That said, I believe 2 more A-east gates were renovated into international arrival gates.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 9

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos