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Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:58 pm

880dc8707 wrote:
Wondering, If AA needs more widebody a/c, could IB (do they have enough extra equip) sub for the AA MAD and/or BCN flights ? Even for the summer, then IB would would have more lift for their South America prime season. Even even substitution would get some different metal in PHL.


I know about 5 years ago IB mentioned about starting service to PHL but I'm not sure what happened with that plan. They are receiving 14 A350's with two already received so that could possibly free up some aircraft to start PHl service. I personally can't see service happen anytime soon but I hope I'm wrong
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1319
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:35 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:48 am

So here’s something new & I cannot find anywhere ..........

Decided it’s been a while since I’ve seen an old college buddy, we both work at PHL, me for a major airline, him for airport mgmt & we meet in F for lunch. During convo, he brings up, “oh did you hear bout the new commuter coming in taking 2 gates here in F?” I think, then say, bs! He can’t remember the name, but says they fly Caravans to smaller PA cities, Southern something. I reply, Southern Airways Express & he says , yessssssss. Per him, they’re starting in May out of PHL. He mentioned MDT LNS AVP but couldn’t remember the others. Anybody else hear this? I’ve looked, searched, googled & think no wayyyyyy, but we walked to end of F where they’ve signed an intent to operate.

Can anybody pull their PIT loads to check load factors, maybe they’re shifting their flights & operation to the larger PHL airport & operation.
 
PHLCVGAMTK
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:50 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:43 am

PHL-MDT and PHL-LNS? Wow, that's asking to get slaughtered. You can get to Lancaster on the train in less time than it takes to get to PHL and go through security, on a bad day, and the walkup train fares are reasonable enough to put an awfully low ceiling on yields. I guess for LNS at least it's Other People's Money as an EAS route. Meanwhile, MDT has 50-seat RJs flying to PHL, 5x daily. AVP, same deal, 50-seaters 3x daily.

According to the EAS reports for September, this is how many round trips daily 9X is handling from their local EAS airports, on 9-seater Cessnas and Pipers:

Hagerstown - 4
Altoona - 4
Bradford - 4
DuBois - 6
Franklin/Oil City - 3
Johnstown* - 6
Lancaster - 3
Morgantown - 6

*Has since been replaced on the contract by Boutique Air.
Link: https://cms.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files ... r-2018.pdf

According to MDT's October 2018 report, 9X's YTD load factor was 22.6% (304 enplanements on 1344 departing seats), but the MDT-PIT flight was not running at that time due to a pilot shortage. (?!) Link: http://www.flyhia.com/wp-content/upload ... pdf?x68571

Gut reaction: this looks screwier the more I look at it.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:10 pm

If this is true about Southern Express then I would be surprised but overall it would make sense since they have an interline ticket and baggage partnership with American Airlines so connections would be easy. With AA using less regional planes recently guess it’s enough gates to be used by about carrier. Hopefully they would be smart and choose routes that aren’t close to PHL
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
PhillyAviation
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:38 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:36 pm

Word is Southern Airways Express will be using gate D2, not totally confirmed though, don't have info on routes or start date.
 
PhillyAviation
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:38 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:38 pm

phlsfo wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Does anyone know if PHL is ever going to get a in ground fueling system?


It is already there. They just can't use it due to environmental issues. But they do indeed have it.


Only gates with currently installed in-ground hydrant system are A-West, and the United gates in D. Both systems are mothballed, haven't heard any plans to expand the system or start using it again.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4031
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:35 pm

Final 2018 numbers are out. Very impressive year, though 2017 was quite the down year

Dec 2017 vs. Dec 2018
Domestic: +5.3%
International: +9.4%
Total: +5.8%

2017 vs. 2018
Domestic: 27,445,785 (+7.3%)
International: 4,246,171 (+6%)
Total: 31,691,956 (+7.1%)
 
TheFlyGuy
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:10 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:26 pm

usairways85 wrote:
Final 2018 numbers are out. Very impressive year, though 2017 was quite the down year

Dec 2017 vs. Dec 2018
Domestic: +5.3%
International: +9.4%
Total: +5.8%

2017 vs. 2018
Domestic: 27,445,785 (+7.3%)
International: 4,246,171 (+6%)
Total: 31,691,956 (+7.1%)


^^^Thanks for sharing. Looking at historical numbers, this was the highest pax count since 2008. Hopefully PHL sees continued growth in 2019.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:56 pm

TheFlyGuy wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
Final 2018 numbers are out. Very impressive year, though 2017 was quite the down year

Dec 2017 vs. Dec 2018
Domestic: +5.3%
International: +9.4%
Total: +5.8%

2017 vs. 2018
Domestic: 27,445,785 (+7.3%)
International: 4,246,171 (+6%)
Total: 31,691,956 (+7.1%)


^^^Thanks for sharing. Looking at historical numbers, this was the highest pax count since 2008. Hopefully PHL sees continued growth in 2019.

With the Government shutdown and the raising fuel prices its going to be hard to see the same numbers from 2018 but Still hopeful for continue growth at PHL. Hoping the international market will grow that we will see more foreign carriers especially from Asia.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:24 am

787 service has been pushed back to 2020 via Routesonline

“American Airlines during the weekend of 03FEB19’s schedule update revised planned Boeing 787-8 operation from Philadelphia. Previously scheduled to serve European routes from 03NOV19, latest revision now sees the 787 operating from January 2020.

Philadelphia – Amsterdam eff 07JAN20 1 daily (New 787-8 route filed on 03FEB19)
Philadelphia – Manchester eff 07JAN20 1 daily
Philadelphia – Zurich eff 07JAN20 1 daily”
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
soflaflyer
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:47 am

Does anyone see a major overhaul of PHL in the cards, or at least hear any talk of the same from credible sources? Sorely needed. The airport definitely does not reflect the status of world's largest airline's European gateway. Ticket counter at B (and maybe others) is very small and outdated. The gate "renovations" a few years back were nothing more than a bandaid. The whole airport has the feeling of decades ago with some fresh paint, playing music from the 40s and 50s doesn't help... Concourse A seems to be the only updated area. Could AA be waiting to see if their long term strategy plays out in PHL before investing? PHL worked well for US and I believe it can for AA as well. Like many others, I'm disappointed in AA's inability to compete in key Int'l markets like MEX and FRA; plenty of room for everyone. With several widebody aircraft flying domestic routes lately, I can't see it being due to an a/c shortage.
 
Cadet985
Posts: 2156
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:45 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:13 am

As a PHL resident, taxpayer, and traveler, I welcome any improvements and carriers to the airport. We need to bring back the service to TLV — either LY or AA. We need to start service to the Far East and South America sooner rather than later. PHL and the surrounding areas lose money to NYC and DC because of a greater variety of destinations and sometimes lower prices. A few years back, I was planning a trip to LAS. It was much cheaper to fly UA out of EWR than AA out of PHL (I had some issues with SW back then).

The airport itself is also in need of a massive update. IMHO, in terms of services and amenities, Terminals C, D, and E are almost what Biden referred to LGA as.

Just my 2¢.

Marc
 
N292UX
Posts: 429
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:24 am

Does AA ever plan on using their 7M8s on transatlantic flights like AC is? Or are they going to stay on the shorter haul spectrum.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:05 am

N292UX wrote:
Does AA ever plan on using their 7M8s on transatlantic flights like AC is? Or are they going to stay on the shorter haul spectrum.


IMO I think for right now anyway they’ll focus those aircrafts for short haul out of MIA. If anything possibly the 321neo could be used for translantic service as a replacement for 757.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
lowfareair
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:26 am

N292UX wrote:
Does AA ever plan on using their 7M8s on transatlantic flights like AC is? Or are they going to stay on the shorter haul spectrum.


Nothing will happen with the 7M8 or 321neos to Europe until a sub-fleet gets lie-flat J seats installed, as that is a requirement for all flights in the European Joint Venture with IAG.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2471
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:36 am

soflaflyer wrote:
Does anyone see a major overhaul of PHL in the cards, or at least hear any talk of the same from credible sources? Sorely needed. The airport definitely does not reflect the status of world's largest airline's European gateway. Ticket counter at B (and maybe others) is very small and outdated. The gate "renovations" a few years back were nothing more than a bandaid. The whole airport has the feeling of decades ago with some fresh paint, playing music from the 40s and 50s doesn't help... Concourse A seems to be the only updated area. Could AA be waiting to see if their long term strategy plays out in PHL before investing? PHL worked well for US and I believe it can for AA as well. Like many others, I'm disappointed in AA's inability to compete in key Int'l markets like MEX and FRA; plenty of room for everyone. With several widebody aircraft flying domestic routes lately, I can't see it being due to an a/c shortage.


It really needs to be done, but it is quite difficult to build over and existing airport, without seriously hampering the traffic there. At least at LGA, service levels at EWR and JFK can be increased to accommodate the migration, but at PHL, it has nowhere to go. Many airports in America were able to expand with the luxury of adjacent vacant land. PHL has a river to it's southern border, a wildlife preserve and a major Interstate on it's northern border and very restricted space to the east and west. It is basically cornered in. Land along Island Ave could accommodate a new terminal area, but I don't see the city spending the money.

The main problem PHL has is runway capacity. In it's restricted footprint, there are just no places to add runways, despite multiple plans in recent years, unless existing terminals are torn down and the entire airport is realigned. That is never going to happen. It is the downside to an airport located near the city center vs. an airport 30 miles outside the city. What they should have done was acquired a large parcel in the 80s when the airport was growing rapidly with USAir and the land was available and semi affordable, then sold off the existing parcel to fund it's future. Now it is too late.
 
acentauri
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:41 am

The PHL capacity solution is well defined and approved by the Government. it's called the "Capacity Enhancement Program" (https://www.faa.gov/airports/environmen ... igures.pdf). The approved redesign is illustrated in Figure 2-1. Unfortunately, the City and the airlines are not willing to invest $3B (2010$) to implement it. One of the major investment drawbacks (risks) is investing that amount in a facility that depends on 70% of its traffic revenue from a single carrier (AA). My idea is for PHL to ask private Trump for the $, in exchange for a rename to TRUMPORT. I mean Trump must have some obligation to Philly, he went to Penn/Wharton. :bouncy:
 
N292UX
Posts: 429
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:22 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
Does AA ever plan on using their 7M8s on transatlantic flights like AC is? Or are they going to stay on the shorter haul spectrum.


IMO I think for right now anyway they’ll focus those aircrafts for short haul out of MIA. If anything possibly the 321neo could be used for translantic service as a replacement for 757.

That wouldn't surprise me. Especially since they'd need to reconfigure the 7M8s from their near-cattle car configuration right now (172 seats). I wouldn't be surprised if they used the A321neo on some TATL flights. That'd open the door to a few new European destinations, like BHX, BFS, CPH, WAW, AGP, GLA, and VIE. And I don't even include KEF and MXP on that list because I think those are do-able on a 752 and 788, respectively.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25753
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:40 pm

N292UX wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
Does AA ever plan on using their 7M8s on transatlantic flights like AC is? Or are they going to stay on the shorter haul spectrum.


IMO I think for right now anyway they’ll focus those aircrafts for short haul out of MIA. If anything possibly the 321neo could be used for translantic service as a replacement for 757.

That wouldn't surprise me. Especially since they'd need to reconfigure the 7M8s from their near-cattle car configuration right now (172 seats). I wouldn't be surprised if they used the A321neo on some TATL flights. That'd open the door to a few new European destinations, like BHX, BFS, CPH, WAW, AGP, GLA, and VIE. And I don't even include KEF and MXP on that list because I think those are do-able on a 752 and 788, respectively.


AA is already using this junk to Brasilia and Bolivia. That's just as far as Europe from the Northeast. They are now a budget, no frills, no service airline, so wouldn't surprise me to see them used to Europe.
a.
 
N292UX
Posts: 429
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:44 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:

IMO I think for right now anyway they’ll focus those aircrafts for short haul out of MIA. If anything possibly the 321neo could be used for translantic service as a replacement for 757.

That wouldn't surprise me. Especially since they'd need to reconfigure the 7M8s from their near-cattle car configuration right now (172 seats). I wouldn't be surprised if they used the A321neo on some TATL flights. That'd open the door to a few new European destinations, like BHX, BFS, CPH, WAW, AGP, GLA, and VIE. And I don't even include KEF and MXP on that list because I think those are do-able on a 752 and 788, respectively.


AA is already using this junk to Brasilia and Bolivia. That's just as far as Europe from the Northeast. They are now a budget, no frills, no service airline, so wouldn't surprise me to see them used to Europe.

I do recall hearing that. Both MIA-BSB/VVI have a 7h 40min block time and is roughly ~3,600 miles. By that logic, AA could add BRU (3,760 miles), AGP (3,730 miles), OSL (3,750 miles), BHX (3,450 miles), GLA (3,300 miles), BFS (3,250 miles), OPO (3,400 miles), ORK (3,190 miles), KEF (2,690 miles), CWL (3,420 miles), and PDL (2,630 miles) with the 7M8. Any thing past that is a stretch for the 737MAX, so places like WAW, VIE, and CPH would need a different aircraft.

As for the A321neo, FRA (3,930 miles), CPH (3,920 miles), GVA (3,940 miles), MRS (3,990 miles), DUS (3,820 miles), PMI (3,990 miles), and HAM (3,890 miles) are all within reach of the A321neo.

As for any of these routes actually happening will remain to be seen. BRU seems likely if AA were to send the 7M8/A321neo overseas. That's a big hole in their European network, IMO. Considering PHL is their largest hub for transatlantic flights, KEF seems likely eventually. It confuses me as to why they started DFW-KEF instead of PHL-KEF. A summer PHL-GLA seems likely to eventually happen. Both DL and UA fly there in the summer, too. AA has been shrinking in Germany as of late, dropping PHL-FRA/MUC recently. They also tried DUS a few years back but it didn't last long. I don't think AA will try anything in Germany for a while. That's also partially due to the fact that LH/UA/Star Alliance dominate the US-Germany flights at the moment. So I don't see FRA/HAM/DUS happening for a while. CPH is a similar story. Dominated by Star Alliance carriers, and mainly SK. DL does fly there from JFK in the summer so who knows. This one seems like something US could've pulled off when they were in Star Alliance, but not anymore. GVA also falls in the same category of Star Alliance domination. AA only has 1 daily flight to anywhere in Switzerland, with that being a daily PHL-ZRH. UA/LX have a pretty good stranglehold on the US-Switzerland flights at the moment, so I doubt GVA is happening anytime soon. DL launching JFK-GVA seems significantly more likely that PHL-GVA. WAW/OSL are also big Star Alliance markets, so my bet is any growth there is from UA. EWR-WAW on UA seems likely eventually. As for, AGP, BHX, BFS, CWL, OPO, ORK, and PDL, I just don't see enough of a pull for those markets to work. AA/DL/UA have all tried XXX-BHX in the past and none of those routes remain. UA ran BFS-EWR a few years back but that's gone now too. I don't believe any of the US3 have ever tried CWL/ORK. DL runs JFK-AGP/PDL and UA runs EWR-OPO, and I doubt there's enough demand for 2 transatlantic flights, even in the summer.

However, with all that being said, summer PHL-PMI is one of my "wild card" picks for AA. PMI has an extremely strong European pull, and it's not inconceivable that it could have some pull from the US too. DL runs JFK-AGP in the summer and seems to be doing fine at the moment, and PMI is significantly larger than AGP (AGP had 16 million pax in 2016 while PMI had 26 million pax). PHL also has a better domestic feed than JFK does, and PMI would have a decent OneWorld pull from IB and BA, so AA would have codeshare partners if they needed it. So a little off topic, but my bold prediction is that AA will eventually launch a summer seasonal PHL-PMI with most likely the A321neo. May still be a few years out, but my bet is that it may happen within the next 3-5 years.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2471
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:38 am

acentauri wrote:
The PHL capacity solution is well defined and approved by the Government. it's called the "Capacity Enhancement Program" (https://www.faa.gov/airports/environmen ... igures.pdf). The approved redesign is illustrated in Figure 2-1. Unfortunately, the City and the airlines are not willing to invest $3B (2010$) to implement it. One of the major investment drawbacks (risks) is investing that amount in a facility that depends on 70% of its traffic revenue from a single carrier (AA). My idea is for PHL to ask private Trump for the $, in exchange for a rename to TRUMPORT. I mean Trump must have some obligation to Philly, he went to Penn/Wharton. :bouncy:


Yes acentauri. I have seen all these "approved" master plans, but will any of them actually happen? I am long out of PHL for many years, so I am not familiar with recent discussions going on there, but it just seems like lots of talk and little if any action. Perhaps the AA "theory" truly is the issue? Who really knows what the story is?
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:50 am

N292UX wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
N292UX wrote:

However, with all that being said, summer PHL-PMI is one of my "wild card" picks for AA. PMI has an extremely strong European pull, and it's not inconceivable that it could have some pull from the US too. DL runs JFK-AGP in the summer and seems to be doing fine at the moment, and PMI is significantly larger than AGP (AGP had 16 million pax in 2016 while PMI had 26 million pax). PHL also has a better domestic feed than JFK does, and PMI would have a decent OneWorld pull from IB and BA, so AA would have codeshare partners if they needed it. So a little off topic, but my bold prediction is that AA will eventually launch a summer seasonal PHL-PMI with most likely the A321neo. May still be a few years out, but my bet is that it may happen within the next 3-5 years.


PMI would be a decent destination to start with AA. It’s definitely a seasonal right I could see perform well. I read an article about Norwegian interested in starting this specific. If that comes true is a different story especially with Norwegian financial issues lately
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
digitalcloud
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:03 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:36 am

N292UX wrote:
That'd open the door to a few new European destinations, like BHX, BFS, CPH, WAW, AGP, GLA, and VIE..


Huh? GLA has been served since 2004, it only just ended at the end of S18 in favour of PHL-EDI starting in S19.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4031
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:11 pm

crownvic wrote:
acentauri wrote:
The PHL capacity solution is well defined and approved by the Government. it's called the "Capacity Enhancement Program" (https://www.faa.gov/airports/environmen ... igures.pdf). The approved redesign is illustrated in Figure 2-1. Unfortunately, the City and the airlines are not willing to invest $3B (2010$) to implement it. One of the major investment drawbacks (risks) is investing that amount in a facility that depends on 70% of its traffic revenue from a single carrier (AA). My idea is for PHL to ask private Trump for the $, in exchange for a rename to TRUMPORT. I mean Trump must have some obligation to Philly, he went to Penn/Wharton. :bouncy:


Yes acentauri. I have seen all these "approved" master plans, but will any of them actually happen? I am long out of PHL for many years, so I am not familiar with recent discussions going on there, but it just seems like lots of talk and little if any action. Perhaps the AA "theory" truly is the issue? Who really knows what the story is?

I wouldn't expect any movement on a runway for at least 10 years. A runway doesn't solve everything. I believe there is ongoing or recently completed taxiway work to reduce congestion when there are 10+ aircraft lined up for departure. PHL's airspace is still jammed between DC and NYC. The runway option is extremely expensive which will ultimately make PHL a much more expensive airport to operate out of, ala PIT. PHL would never become a PIT, but PHL is also not a BOS where every international airline is sprinting to fly there.

The 10 year focus seems to be terminal interiors, rental car facility, people mover (?), and new cargo facility (not for UPS). The optimal solution would be to demo B/C and build one terminal, but I suspect there would be some type of reduction in gates.
 
N292UX
Posts: 429
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:03 pm

digitalcloud wrote:
N292UX wrote:
That'd open the door to a few new European destinations, like BHX, BFS, CPH, WAW, AGP, GLA, and VIE..


Huh? GLA has been served since 2004, it only just ended at the end of S18 in favour of PHL-EDI starting in S19.

They did from PHL? I thought it was from JFK but got cut recently. Maybe I'm wrong about that though.
 
digitalcloud
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:03 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:15 pm

N292UX wrote:
digitalcloud wrote:
N292UX wrote:
That'd open the door to a few new European destinations, like BHX, BFS, CPH, WAW, AGP, GLA, and VIE..


Huh? GLA has been served since 2004, it only just ended at the end of S18 in favour of PHL-EDI starting in S19.

They did from PHL? I thought it was from JFK but got cut recently. Maybe I'm wrong about that though.
Yes - US Airways started it.
 
acentauri
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:44 am

usairways85 wrote:
........... The runway option is extremely expensive which will ultimately make PHL a much more expensive airport to operate out of, ala PIT. PHL would never become a PIT, but PHL is also not a BOS where every international airline is sprinting to fly there.........

Although BOS's international O&D is higher than PHL, partially due to its relative isolation, when compared to NYC-PHL-WAS, the difference in the number of international carriers has a lot to due with the fact that BOS has miniscule competition from any U.S. carrier for services to Europe. In other words, BOS is not an International HUB for any U.S. carrier, unlike PHL. I'm not certain where you're getting that "every" international airline is "sprinting to fly there". Even in peak season, DL/AF only have 3 daily flights to DL's European Hub, CDG. Asia is essentially the same situation, although the number of Asian carriers flying non-stop to the Orient from BOS is impressive.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:13 am

crownvic wrote:
acentauri wrote:
The PHL capacity solution is well defined and approved by the Government. it's called the "Capacity Enhancement Program" (https://www.faa.gov/airports/environmen ... igures.pdf). The approved redesign is illustrated in Figure 2-1. Unfortunately, the City and the airlines are not willing to invest $3B (2010$) to implement it. One of the major investment drawbacks (risks) is investing that amount in a facility that depends on 70% of its traffic revenue from a single carrier (AA). My idea is for PHL to ask private Trump for the $, in exchange for a rename to TRUMPORT. I mean Trump must have some obligation to Philly, he went to Penn/Wharton. :bouncy:


Yes acentauri. I have seen all these "approved" master plans, but will any of them actually happen? I am long out of PHL for many years, so I am not familiar with recent discussions going on there, but it just seems like lots of talk and little if any action. Perhaps the AA "theory" truly is the issue? Who really knows what the story is?


Can you explain the AA "theory"? Does that mean AA is holding PHL from coming a larger airport?

Also in the CEP there was supposed to be a commuter terminal is that dead as well?
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:24 am

I would to ask what is the most likely next foreign carrier to serve PHL? I don't any Asian carriers having soon because of the busses pulling people to NYC airports and the fact is so much cheaper people choose NYC. I don't any of the European one world members serving PHL, I'm guessing they are happy AA feeding them instead. With the current numbers of PHL serving 30 millions passengers a year holding steady, what is the next carrier would offer serve to PHL.
 
OslPhlWasChi
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 6:06 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:36 am

PHLspecial wrote:
crownvic wrote:
acentauri wrote:
The PHL capacity solution is well defined and approved by the Government. it's called the "Capacity Enhancement Program" (https://www.faa.gov/airports/environmen ... igures.pdf). The approved redesign is illustrated in Figure 2-1. Unfortunately, the City and the airlines are not willing to invest $3B (2010$) to implement it. One of the major investment drawbacks (risks) is investing that amount in a facility that depends on 70% of its traffic revenue from a single carrier (AA). My idea is for PHL to ask private Trump for the $, in exchange for a rename to TRUMPORT. I mean Trump must have some obligation to Philly, he went to Penn/Wharton. :bouncy:


Yes acentauri. I have seen all these "approved" master plans, but will any of them actually happen? I am long out of PHL for many years, so I am not familiar with recent discussions going on there, but it just seems like lots of talk and little if any action. Perhaps the AA "theory" truly is the issue? Who really knows what the story is?


Can you explain the AA "theory"? Does that mean AA is holding PHL from coming a larger airport?

Also in the CEP there was supposed to be a commuter terminal is that dead as well?


Refer back to the first page of this this thread for more context but the additional runway and commuter terminal are no longer major needs for PHL. The CEO was formulated based on planning pre-2005ish when RJ flying and higher flight movements were the norm. This is no longer the case and does not show any signs of becoming the case again in the short to medium term. So perhaps one of the biggest factors why the CEO is not moving forward is it doesn't actually address the needs of PHL today and I'm the future.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:23 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
I would to ask what is the most likely next foreign carrier to serve PHL? I don't any Asian carriers having soon because of the busses pulling people to NYC airports and the fact is so much cheaper people choose NYC. I don't any of the European one world members serving PHL, I'm guessing they are happy AA feeding them instead. With the current numbers of PHL serving 30 millions passengers a year holding steady, what is the next carrier would offer serve to PHL.


That’s a hard one. I did mentioned about TAP starting service on a 321LR but now I highly doubt that’ll happen. Possibly Volaris service since they plan to expand to USA and have codeshare with Frontier. Other than that I can’t picture any other foreign airline wanting to start service anytime soon. I still think Japan Air will start service withing 2-4 years hopefully.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
usairways85
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:59 pm

acentauri wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
........... The runway option is extremely expensive which will ultimately make PHL a much more expensive airport to operate out of, ala PIT. PHL would never become a PIT, but PHL is also not a BOS where every international airline is sprinting to fly there.........

Although BOS's international O&D is higher than PHL, partially due to its relative isolation, when compared to NYC-PHL-WAS, the difference in the number of international carriers has a lot to due with the fact that BOS has miniscule competition from any U.S. carrier for services to Europe. In other words, BOS is not an International HUB for any U.S. carrier, unlike PHL. I'm not certain where you're getting that "every" international airline is "sprinting to fly there". Even in peak season, DL/AF only have 3 daily flights to DL's European Hub, CDG. Asia is essentially the same situation, although the number of Asian carriers flying non-stop to the Orient from BOS is impressive.

BOS had almost double the international passengers than PHL in 2018.

But my point was landing fees. When an airport pursues a big project like a new runway, some amount of it is typically funded by landing fees. PHL landing fees are assessed per 1,000 pound unit aircraft weight. BOS had ~44,000 more movements than PHL in 2018. On top of that is what appears to be a larger number of bigger international planes with 380s from two carriers, 747's from two carriers, 77W from at least one carrier, etc.
 
OslPhlWasChi
Posts: 114
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:46 pm

Apology in advance - this is not news, just wishful amateur thinking...

With the first 788 routes coming to PHL in Jan 2020 (as of now) replacing a mix of 767 and 332 routes, I still wonder if AA will use of subfleet of A321neos as a 757 replacement for thin TATL routes, perhaps with ~16 lie-flat business seats and ~160 or so seats in Y. Add the 789 deliveries beginning in 2023 expected to replace the 333, perhaps around 2025 TATL flying will be a mix of 789, 788, and 321neo flying. We know the 763s will be gone, are almost certain the 333s will retire beginning in 2023, the 757s will likely be hitting the end of their life, and perhaps the 332s will be better utilized in CLT and MIA.

There could be problems in my logic above - feel free to poke holes in this - but if so, come 2025 or so, perhaps AA TATL flying out of PHL could look like the following:

B789: LHR (2x daily), CDG, MAD, FCO, DUB, TLV
B788: AMS, MAN, ZRH, TXL, MXP, DUS; Seasonal: BCN, LIS, PRG, BUD, ATH, VCE
A321neo: BRU, EDI, WAW; Seasonal: SNN, HEL, GLA, KEF, AGP, NCE
* BOLD = new destination (not served in 2019)
* ITALICS = up-gauge from seasonal to year-round service

A few notes:
- CDG / MAD have not performed so well the past few years, but fewer AA flights out of JFK/BOS/etc. and DL dropping CDG may help
- ATH / VCE assumed to continue to have an AA flight out of ORD; if not, these could go up to a 789; with the ORD flight, perhaps PHL sees an extended summer season (i.e. April-October, instead of May-September)
- TXL / DUS might be wishful thinking, but AA might perform better in Germany if not competing against LH hubs in FRA/MUC
- MXP only if it does in fact move from JFK
- BLQ / DBV I would be glad to be proven wrong, but I don't see these becoming long-lived routes; perhaps being the first in a mid-sized Italian market to offer TATL will work but I am no confident (same for UA at NAP); while Croatia seems to be a burgeoning market, its spread across DBV, SPU, and ZAG and Croatia may be pushing it for the range of the 321neo and a 788 would be too much plane
- Additional frames of the smaller, cost-effective, long range A321neo should open up many possibilities; HEL takes advantage of AY partner; any of these routes as year-round is likely overly optimistic

Reminder - I have no idea what I am talking about.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 313
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:29 pm

OslPhlWasChi wrote:
Apology in advance - this is not news, just wishful amateur thinking...

With the first 788 routes coming to PHL in Jan 2020 (as of now) replacing a mix of 767 and 332 routes, I still wonder if AA will use of subfleet of A321neos as a 757 replacement for thin TATL routes, perhaps with ~16 lie-flat business seats and ~160 or so seats in Y. Add the 789 deliveries beginning in 2023 expected to replace the 333, perhaps around 2025 TATL flying will be a mix of 789, 788, and 321neo flying. We know the 763s will be gone, are almost certain the 333s will retire beginning in 2023, the 757s will likely be hitting the end of their life, and perhaps the 332s will be better utilized in CLT and MIA.

There could be problems in my logic above - feel free to poke holes in this - but if so, come 2025 or so, perhaps AA TATL flying out of PHL could look like the following:

B789: LHR (2x daily), CDG, MAD, FCO, DUB, TLV
B788: AMS, MAN, ZRH, TXL, MXP, DUS; Seasonal: BCN, LIS, PRG, BUD, ATH, VCE
A321neo: BRU, EDI, WAW; Seasonal: SNN, HEL, GLA, KEF, AGP, NCE
* BOLD = new destination (not served in 2019)
* ITALICS = up-gauge from seasonal to year-round service

A few notes:
- CDG / MAD have not performed so well the past few years, but fewer AA flights out of JFK/BOS/etc. and DL dropping CDG may help
- ATH / VCE assumed to continue to have an AA flight out of ORD; if not, these could go up to a 789; with the ORD flight, perhaps PHL sees an extended summer season (i.e. April-October, instead of May-September)
- TXL / DUS might be wishful thinking, but AA might perform better in Germany if not competing against LH hubs in FRA/MUC
- MXP only if it does in fact move from JFK
- BLQ / DBV I would be glad to be proven wrong, but I don't see these becoming long-lived routes; perhaps being the first in a mid-sized Italian market to offer TATL will work but I am no confident (same for UA at NAP); while Croatia seems to be a burgeoning market, its spread across DBV, SPU, and ZAG and Croatia may be pushing it for the range of the 321neo and a 788 would be too much plane
- Additional frames of the smaller, cost-effective, long range A321neo should open up many possibilities; HEL takes advantage of AY partner; any of these routes as year-round is likely overly optimistic

Reminder - I have no idea what I am talking about.


Overall I feel you made very valid points. For DBV I know American said bookings overall have been strong so I can possible picture this route staying for awhile. I know as of right now seems like AA focus for the 321neo is in LAX and PHX for now so hopefully within the next year or two they'll expand to PHL especially for transatlantic service. For 2020 I have a feeling the next European route announcement would include NCE, MXP and possibly KEF. Just my opinion.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
emuwarveteran
Posts: 139
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:53 am

I'm still waiting for PHL - WAW. I heard that BUD and PRG went very well for them so why not that? And I highly doubt that it would be a VFR low yield route like everyone else is saying. There's lots of business- and tourism-related travel from/to Poland nowadays.
CL CRJ9, W6 A320
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 313
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:13 pm

Not as exciting but still good to see Air Canada increases daily flights from 4x to 5x daily starting this summer
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 286
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:15 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
Not as exciting but still good to see Air Canada increases daily flights from 4x to 5x daily starting this summer


No mainline Air Canada correct?
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 313
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:48 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
Not as exciting but still good to see Air Canada increases daily flights from 4x to 5x daily starting this summer


No mainline Air Canada correct?


Correct still no mainline unfortunately. Just an extra E175 for the route. It’s the Toronto route I fogot to mention that
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
steeler83
Posts: 7640
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:00 pm

usairways85 wrote:
acentauri wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
........... The runway option is extremely expensive which will ultimately make PHL a much more expensive airport to operate out of, ala PIT. PHL would never become a PIT, but PHL is also not a BOS where every international airline is sprinting to fly there.........

Although BOS's international O&D is higher than PHL, partially due to its relative isolation, when compared to NYC-PHL-WAS, the difference in the number of international carriers has a lot to due with the fact that BOS has miniscule competition from any U.S. carrier for services to Europe. In other words, BOS is not an International HUB for any U.S. carrier, unlike PHL. I'm not certain where you're getting that "every" international airline is "sprinting to fly there". Even in peak season, DL/AF only have 3 daily flights to DL's European Hub, CDG. Asia is essentially the same situation, although the number of Asian carriers flying non-stop to the Orient from BOS is impressive.

BOS had almost double the international passengers than PHL in 2018.

But my point was landing fees. When an airport pursues a big project like a new runway, some amount of it is typically funded by landing fees. PHL landing fees are assessed per 1,000 pound unit aircraft weight. BOS had ~44,000 more movements than PHL in 2018. On top of that is what appears to be a larger number of bigger international planes with 380s from two carriers, 747's from two carriers, 77W from at least one carrier, etc.

Doesn't PHL see 2 daily 744s as of now - BA066 and whatever flight LH has to FRA? Regarding A380s, I don't think PHL has the capabilities of handling an A380. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they lack necessary taxi-ways, and I don't think they ever erected A380-capable gates. It would be terrific if someone would provide regular scheduled A380 service to PHL, but I don't think it's in the cards - especially with Airbus pulling the plug on the program in a couple of years.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
wagz
Posts: 480
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:43 pm

PHL is definitely not capable of support regular A380s. They're only barely able to handle diversions, and that's only using 27L/9R and parking at the hard stand near de-ice. Three weeks ago EK diverted one of their JFK A380s here and it was a giant cluster.
I think Big Foot is blurry... It's not the photographer's fault. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 313
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:11 pm

A380 service is not needed at PHL granted as others mentioned there's no gates capable of handle them anyway. The 744s are good enough for jumbo jets in my opinion. Side note I'm a bit selfish and hope QR switches form a the 350-900 to the 350-1000 but only wishful thinking.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
usairways85
Posts: 4031
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:36 pm

steeler83 wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
acentauri wrote:
Although BOS's international O&D is higher than PHL, partially due to its relative isolation, when compared to NYC-PHL-WAS, the difference in the number of international carriers has a lot to due with the fact that BOS has miniscule competition from any U.S. carrier for services to Europe. In other words, BOS is not an International HUB for any U.S. carrier, unlike PHL. I'm not certain where you're getting that "every" international airline is "sprinting to fly there". Even in peak season, DL/AF only have 3 daily flights to DL's European Hub, CDG. Asia is essentially the same situation, although the number of Asian carriers flying non-stop to the Orient from BOS is impressive.

BOS had almost double the international passengers than PHL in 2018.

But my point was landing fees. When an airport pursues a big project like a new runway, some amount of it is typically funded by landing fees. PHL landing fees are assessed per 1,000 pound unit aircraft weight. BOS had ~44,000 more movements than PHL in 2018. On top of that is what appears to be a larger number of bigger international planes with 380s from two carriers, 747's from two carriers, 77W from at least one carrier, etc.

Doesn't PHL see 2 daily 744s as of now - BA066 and whatever flight LH has to FRA? Regarding A380s, I don't think PHL has the capabilities of handling an A380. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they lack necessary taxi-ways, and I don't think they ever erected A380-capable gates. It would be terrific if someone would provide regular scheduled A380 service to PHL, but I don't think it's in the cards - especially with Airbus pulling the plug on the program in a couple of years.

Currently it's just the BA 744 that's been operating daily for the past ~2 years I think. Starting in the LH S19 schedule (around March I think), they will begin a daily 744 on FRA-PHL for the summer season. It is probably 15-20 years since there were 2 daily scheduled pax 744's into PHL
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6516
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:57 pm

acentauri wrote:
The PHL capacity solution is well defined and approved by the Government. it's called the "Capacity Enhancement Program" (https://www.faa.gov/airports/environmen ... igures.pdf). The approved redesign is illustrated in Figure 2-1. Unfortunately, the City and the airlines are not willing to invest $3B (2010$) to implement it. One of the major investment drawbacks (risks) is investing that amount in a facility that depends on 70% of its traffic revenue from a single carrier (AA).
One thing to keep in mind is that the CEP was made back when US was still the dominant/hub carrier at PHL and there was a different Director of Aviation in charge.

When US was still around, PHL was the largest or second largest (compared to CLT) for that carrier. Size-wise with respect to AA's overall network, both pre- & post-merger; the PHL hub is not the big/top-dog hub it was w/US. That coupled with the new Aviation Director tabling the third parallel runway project when she first took over; such IMHO took the wind out of the sails of any major expansion at PHL.

One CEP-related project that I could see becoming reality 10 to 20 years from now would be the consolidation of the B-C Concourse Buildings (which are two of the oldest airport buildings) into one centrally-located concourse. Such would allow for dual-taxilanes on either side of the concourse. The current single taxilanes between Concourses A-East & B, B & C, C & D, and D & E can tie up taxiing ops in-and-out of the concourses/gates... especially for gates located closest ot the terminal buildings. Since AA operates out of Concourses B & C; they would certainly benefit from such in the long-run.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
usairways85
Posts: 4031
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:46 pm

Beginning 6/3 Air Canada announced they will boost YYZ-PHL from 4x to 5x
 
lowfareair
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:28 pm

PHLBOS wrote:
acentauri wrote:
The PHL capacity solution is well defined and approved by the Government. it's called the "Capacity Enhancement Program" (https://www.faa.gov/airports/environmen ... igures.pdf). The approved redesign is illustrated in Figure 2-1. Unfortunately, the City and the airlines are not willing to invest $3B (2010$) to implement it. One of the major investment drawbacks (risks) is investing that amount in a facility that depends on 70% of its traffic revenue from a single carrier (AA).
One thing to keep in mind is that the CEP was made back when US was still the dominant/hub carrier at PHL and there was a different Director of Aviation in charge.

When US was still around, PHL was the largest or second largest (compared to CLT) for that carrier. Size-wise with respect to AA's overall network, both pre- & post-merger; the PHL hub is not the big/top-dog hub it was w/US. That coupled with the new Aviation Director tabling the third parallel runway project when she first took over; such IMHO took the wind out of the sails of any major expansion at PHL.

One CEP-related project that I could see becoming reality 10 to 20 years from now would be the consolidation of the B-C Concourse Buildings (which are two of the oldest airport buildings) into one centrally-located concourse. Such would allow for dual-taxilanes on either side of the concourse. The current single taxilanes between Concourses A-East & B, B & C, C & D, and D & E can tie up taxiing ops in-and-out of the concourses/gates... especially for gates located closest ot the terminal buildings. Since AA operates out of Concourses B & C; they would certainly benefit from such in the long-run.


I mentioned something similar upthread to consolidating B&C which they could do after upsizing F.

The other big difference for the CEP then-and-now is the number of passengers are similar to 2008, but the number of commercial flights are considerably lower but with higher capacity aircraft. The percentage of AA flights that are mainline has gone up from 33% to 44% over the past decade, 763/A332 have replaced many 752/762 int'l flights, and the regional planes themselves have been upgauged considerably (i.e. no more Dash 8 flights).
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:11 am

What is PHL lacking to become a bigger airport? What can PHL do to improve given it's current situation. A few users mentioned making B/C into one Terminal but lose a few gates. Another suggested is upsizing the F gates to accept larger aircraft maybe like the E175 (A321?), is this even possible? I suggested dual jet bridges for Terminal A east and west. The taxiway and runways is fine current growth of PHL.
It's 2018, what is your version CEP?
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:16 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
What is PHL lacking to become a bigger airport? What can PHL do to improve given it's current situation. A few users mentioned making B/C into one Terminal but lose a few gates. Another suggested is upsizing the F gates to accept larger aircraft maybe like the E175 (A321?), is this even possible? I suggested dual jet bridges for Terminal A east and west. The taxiway and runways is fine current growth of PHL.
It's 2018, what is your version CEP?


I feel that one of the major is issues is not enough gates for AA mainly during summer season. I’ve heard some passengers having to board planes at the hardstand because it wasn’t enough gates. I can only imagine terminal A-west being some how expanded. Otherwise idk what else PHL can do to utilize the airport to full strength
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
lowfareair
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:48 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
What is PHL lacking to become a bigger airport? What can PHL do to improve given it's current situation. A few users mentioned making B/C into one Terminal but lose a few gates. Another suggested is upsizing the F gates to accept larger aircraft maybe like the E175 (A321?), is this even possible? I suggested dual jet bridges for Terminal A east and west. The taxiway and runways is fine current growth of PHL.
It's 2018, what is your version CEP?


Many years ago, AirTran used to fly out of F with 717s, which are 7.5' wider and 20' longer than an e175.

My CEP would start out by moving the tenants of the cargo city parts East of the AA hangar to a new portion of the recently purchased land tract on the NW of the property and removing the parking lot East of Tinicum Island Road. Then turn that area into a terminal 'Far A West' which should fit about 10-11 net new A330/777 gates (Gate A18 would be removed in the process). Put in a better airside connector system, then upsize terminal F, then build the new single terminal B/C.

What I wouldn't do is a radical rebuilding of the airport, add a 3rd parallel runway (I don't think it is necessary), or make the airport A380-capable (by the time that happens, many will already start to be retired).
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:21 pm

lowfareair wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
What is PHL lacking to become a bigger airport? What can PHL do to improve given it's current situation. A few users mentioned making B/C into one Terminal but lose a few gates. Another suggested is upsizing the F gates to accept larger aircraft maybe like the E175 (A321?), is this even possible? I suggested dual jet bridges for Terminal A east and west. The taxiway and runways is fine current growth of PHL.
It's 2018, what is your version CEP?


Many years ago, AirTran used to fly out of F with 717s, which are 7.5' wider and 20' longer than an e175.

My CEP would start out by moving the tenants of the cargo city parts East of the AA hangar to a new portion of the recently purchased land tract on the NW of the property and removing the parking lot East of Tinicum Island Road. Then turn that area into a terminal 'Far A West' which should fit about 10-11 net new A330/777 gates (Gate A18 would be removed in the process). Put in a better airside connector system, then upsize terminal F, then build the new single terminal B/C.

What I wouldn't do is a radical rebuilding of the airport, add a 3rd parallel runway (I don't think it is necessary), or make the airport A380-capable (by the time that happens, many will already start to be retired).


If you did the plan to build a far A West terminal people mover would be nice. Good to know the F gates can be upsize without any reconstruction.
I'm curious what they are going to with the land they purchase from Tinicum township. Your idea makes sense. Though I wonder if that did happen wouldn't the deice pad would have to move? I guess no such there would be more than enough space between the terminal and deicing pad
 
Clipper2Heavy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:20 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
What is PHL lacking to become a bigger airport? What can PHL do to improve given it's current situation. A few users mentioned making B/C into one Terminal but lose a few gates. Another suggested is upsizing the F gates to accept larger aircraft maybe like the E175 (A321?), is this even possible? I suggested dual jet bridges for Terminal A east and west. The taxiway and runways is fine current growth of PHL.
It's 2018, what is your version CEP?


Many years ago, AirTran used to fly out of F with 717s, which are 7.5' wider and 20' longer than an e175.

My CEP would start out by moving the tenants of the cargo city parts East of the AA hangar to a new portion of the recently purchased land tract on the NW of the property and removing the parking lot East of Tinicum Island Road. Then turn that area into a terminal 'Far A West' which should fit about 10-11 net new A330/777 gates (Gate A18 would be removed in the process). Put in a better airside connector system, then upsize terminal F, then build the new single terminal B/C.

What I wouldn't do is a radical rebuilding of the airport, add a 3rd parallel runway (I don't think it is necessary), or make the airport A380-capable (by the time that happens, many will already start to be retired).


If you did the plan to build a far A West terminal people mover would be nice. Good to know the F gates can be upsize without any reconstruction.
I'm curious what they are going to with the land they purchase from Tinicum township. Your idea makes sense. Though I wonder if that did happen wouldn't the deice pad would have to move? I guess no such there would be more than enough space between the terminal and deicing pad


I have to say....the idea of a 'FAR A WEST' and combination of a larger B/C is quite interesting. I can see the potential Value. A 'FAR A WEST' could be used for the burgeoning Trans-Atlantic Gateway for AA. Further agree that no radical redevelopment of the airport is required. Though with a B/C Combo and a 'FAR A WEST', a People Mover of Some Sort becomes a must.
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