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seemyseems
Posts: 423
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:20 pm

It’s a shame to read about 9W! Hopefully someone else will pick up the service sometime
seemyseems in ATL
 
BHXRunway15
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:17 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:08 am

David_itl wrote:
If it's a lack of yield, to stop operating on 22nd March i.e. the Thursday before the summer timetable change is a bit strange. You'd normally wait to the end of the winter timetable before pulling the route. Remember the service was launched as 4 weekly but prior to the 1st flight the frequency was increased to make it 5 weekly. Hardly the sign of low yield as you'd want to manage the frequency to avoid to many cheap seats being sold. May be it's like the AI BHX service that sees the the extra mileage flying to avoid Pakistani airspace impacting on the route.

In terms of loads:
November average 167 passengers - low to mid 60s% loads
December average 202 passenger - mid 70s% load
January average 234 passengers and mid to high 80s% loads


Definitely longer flying time but not as bad as ATQ-BHX and DEL-BHX although certainly impacted.

FR24 shows the shortest BOM-MAN this year 9 hours 27 minutes and longest 10 hours 46 and the reverse 8 hours 3 minutes and 9 hours 6 minutes respectively. Over an hour extra each way at the extremes. VT-JWP is showing config 18/236 on one site which would make the load factors even better such as January with 234 per flight (which I agree) would be 92%
 
Armodeen
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:19 am

Also to stop with 3 days notice points to carrier problems rather than anything else.
 
Cunard
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:30 am

I don't think that it's lack of yield more the fact that Jet Airways are skint and dropping routes left right and centre and if any European destination was going to get the chop it was going to be Manchester good yields or not.

Although it's a shame to lose the Mumbai link so soon after it had started but I am sure that another carrier will jump in and replace Jet Airways as the demand is obviously there, VS could possibly start Delhi or even Spicejet to Mumbai if they can get some wide-bodies.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
8herveg
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:43 am

I think this would be a perfect opportunity for VS to operate the route. And also DEL, and codeshare with 9W on both.

Do they have a spare A330??
 
thegrew
Posts: 13
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:45 am

I don't think this has been posted yet, MEN given a tour of the inside of the new T2 https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... 997699.amp

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 
azz767
Posts: 122
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:21 am

8herveg wrote:
I think this would be a perfect opportunity for VS to operate the route. And also DEL, and codeshare with 9W on both.

Do they have a spare A330??


Over this winter, they have had 4 A330-200's at LGW. Lets give 1 to the fact of cabin refurbs so on average 3 active over winter. Every day of the week only 2 are needed max, and some days only 1 is used as they get a -300 across from LHR (I assume due to loads).

Therefore, over the winter there is plenty of slack in the A330 fleet to operate, however the summer is a different question, which I imagine this summer, every a/c is pretty much fully utilised.
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
Posts: 839
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:11 am

azz767 wrote:
8herveg wrote:
I think this would be a perfect opportunity for VS to operate the route. And also DEL, and codeshare with 9W on both.

Do they have a spare A330??


Over this winter, they have had 4 A330-200's at LGW. Lets give 1 to the fact of cabin refurbs so on average 3 active over winter. Every day of the week only 2 are needed max, and some days only 1 is used as they get a -300 across from LHR (I assume due to loads).

Therefore, over the winter there is plenty of slack in the A330 fleet to operate, however the summer is a different question, which I imagine this summer, every a/c is pretty much fully utilised.


On this, any slack in the fleet would come from:

(i) B789 availability improving due to engine issues being resolved;

(ii) A35K deliveries and acceptance into revenue service being faster than retirements of B744/A346; and

(iii) in relation to the above, a possible deliberate decision to delay retirements of B744 and A346.

There is also the possibility of DL lending a helping hand by doing more flying between LHR and (say) JFK and ATL freeing up A330s for other flying.

Having said this, VS appear to be in growth mode again so who knows what plans they might have up their sleeve.
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:26 pm

A brief article with some quotes and general positive spin that the suspension is “temporary” and “to the end of April 2019”.

Personally, the fate of this rests almost entirely on 9Ws future.

If 9W survive in substantively the same form, is seems MAN-BOM has performed well such that it is likely to form part of their network moving forwards.

If 9W do not survive in the same format, MAN and perhaps VS, will have to search elsewhere for an operator. VS themselves have been mentioned, and given that in this circumstance VS (DL, AF/KL) would be looking for a new Indian partner, the outcome of which may take a little time, they mak come into the equation. Vistara springs to mind as a possibility given VS’s long-standing relationship with SQ, but who knows.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... er-service
 
David_itl
Posts: 6349
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:42 am

So Air New Zealand have increased "their" frequency to MAN with them codesharing with Virgin to LAX. So it's 3 times a week via the States and 5 times a week via Singapore. I just wonder which service provides the quicker route to Auckland.
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:01 am

David_itl wrote:
So Air New Zealand have increased "their" frequency to MAN with them codesharing with Virgin to LAX. So it's 3 times a week via the States and 5 times a week via Singapore. I just wonder which service provides the quicker route to Auckland.


You can book on MAN-IAH-AKL on one ticket as well (13 weekly options in the northern summer).
 
TurnaroudUK
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:28 pm

8herveg wrote:
I think this would be a perfect opportunity for VS to operate the route. And also DEL, and codeshare with 9W on both.

Do they have a spare A330??


I fell the likes of india could prove vital in making VS seasonal destinations all year round
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 223
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:15 am

PlaneTalk Issue 82 - courtesy of the Manchester Airport Transformation Programme team

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PlaneTalk Issue 83 - courtesy of the Manchester Airport Transformation Programme team

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Testing Code E aircraft on Stand 104
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Handling agent staff getting experience of using the new airbridges against a dummy fuselage
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hohd
Posts: 749
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:31 pm

My brother recently travelled in late Feb/Mar on MAN-BOM-HYD-BOM-MAN and the loads were about 60% full and he got a dirt cheap fare (lowest fare among competing airlines) booked about 4 weeks in advance (return was on a Sunday). I doubt the yields on this route were any good. In addition given 9W's woes this route was doomed from the start. Someone like AI with more decent timings may be can pick up the route.
 
User001
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:49 pm

Hohd,

Sorry to say this but frankly you have had an agenda with this route from the get go, so, I take the above post with a heavy pinch of salt to be honest.
 
David_itl
Posts: 6349
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:58 pm

A singke datum point is no basis to report on how a route is doing. I have futnished on this thread the monthly numbers which show incrreasing loads. As for payng a liow price meaning yields must be bad, maybe it coincided wirh promotional fares; what's the point in charging double what rivals are doing when you are the new entrant. You have to raise your profile about your unique selling point.
 
Mullion
Posts: 45
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:43 pm

As passenger loads recently have been around 90% and you can read the officail CAA figures to confirm this I also don`t agree with you hohd
 
AI
Posts: 288
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:58 pm

Another single data point to counter hohd’s

My wife flew MAN-BOM-MAN in Jan on 9W & according to her, outbound was pretty full with hardly any empty seats. Return had few more empty seats but it was still more than 90% full. Couple of pax she spoke to were connecting to US on VS.

She was very impressed with the overall product in Y (& she is actually quite difficult to please).
 
8herveg
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:32 am

MAN opening the new pier today - but no travelators - seems unusual for quite a long pier?
 
JamesAlice
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:57 pm

I noticed quite a few TUI 737 Max 8's parked remotely, near the airport pub the other day. Around 4 of them.
 
JakTrax
Posts: 5004
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:24 pm

I think there are five TUI 7M8s parked in that area.
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:48 pm

Manchester Statistics - February 2019

Introduction
Back in September 2015 I decided that I should start to correlate statistics for Manchester and use 2005 as a reference point for historical data. My file now consists of 14 years of monthly figures and 486 destinations that have been served from Manchester over that period.

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

No new destinations were served in February 2019.

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)

Amsterdam - 1,043,325 passengers
Dubai - This route has now dropped out of the target figure to be included.

The following domestic statistics are missing from the CAA report for February.

Belfast City shows a false figure of 67, in 2018 the numbers were 20,674.
Inverness has failed to report any passengers, in 2018 they had 3,947 passengers

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics

Monthly passengers - 1,805,164 +7.05%
Annual Total - 3,591,196
Moving Annual Total - 28,590,075 +2.44%

Monthly Movements - 13,226 +1.69%
Annual Movements - 186,549
Moving Annual Movements - 201,569 -0.70%

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers
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Top 25 destinations with highest percentage increase.
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Figures for the European and long haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.
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Comparison of top 25 destinations - February 2009 versus February 2019
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Major changes to Domestic traffic
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The CAA figures for Belfast City are erroneous and those for Inverness are missing.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2353
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:32 pm

8herveg wrote:
MAN opening the new pier today - but no travelators - seems unusual for quite a long pier?


There is a travelator along the new connection between the terminal and the new pier one, no travelator in the pier itself which is not entirely unusual, even the satellites at LHR T5 don't have travelators within the piers.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
by738
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:19 pm

Cunard wrote:
even the satellites at LHR T5 don't have travelators within the piers.

I was sure I was on one the other day...
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:46 pm

by738 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
even the satellites at LHR T5 don't have travelators within the piers.

I was sure I was on one the other day...


Can’t speak for LHR T5, but I’m sure LHR T2B does have a travellator in the pier.

I’m not sure what the relative sizes are, but it’s not realistic to compare MAN with LHR on a “like for like” basis.

The next pier to be constructed at MAN is pier 3, which is due to contain the Code F contact stands and is (or at least was) due to be larger than the new Pier 1.

It is not unreasonable to expect some design improvements in Pier 3, based on experience learned from pier 1 and also on the basis that pier 3 is likely to be the new home for the likes of EK, EY, QR, SQ, CX, WY, HU.

Another interesting issue to keep an eye on is whether VS (and connect airways) are looking for any particular requirements - which they may have the power to negotiate given that between them VS, BE (as it was), AF/KL are likely MAN’s largest (or thereabouts) airline customers now. Presumably they would all like to be under the same roof (ie T2) but what facility does Connect require (and do they even know what connect will do at MAN in future?).
 
8herveg
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Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:26 am

Cunard wrote:
8herveg wrote:
MAN opening the new pier today - but no travelators - seems unusual for quite a long pier?


There is a travelator along the new connection between the terminal and the new pier one, no travelator in the pier itself which is not entirely unusual, even the satellites at LHR T5 don't have travelators within the piers.


But the satellites at T5 are laid horizontally to the T5A and you arrive in the centre of them, so the most you'd have to walk is half the length of the satellite to reach your gate, whereas the pier at MAN is laid vertically to the main terminal building so when you arrive at the beginning of it, if your gate is right at the end of the pier, you'd have to walk the whole length of the pier - if that makes sense? Similarly to the middle pier at LGW, which has travelators.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2353
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:14 pm

Yes it does make sense and I fully agree with you regarding the satellites at LHR compared to the new Pier 1 at MAN.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 246
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:16 pm

Jet2 - Summer 2020 - new routes to Preveza and Zadar

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/11 ... 82721?s=19 (Preveza 1x weekly)

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/11 ... 28386?s=19 (Zadar 2x weekly)
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 223
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:16 pm

The last week has been pretty hectic so I make no apologies for the late posting of Issue #84 of PlaneTalk which is kindly supplied by the MANTP Project Team.

I have noticed that some of the images were included in last week's edition, but we'll put that down to overwork within the team as Pier One went live.

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TurnaroudUK
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 7:11 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:53 pm

Cunard wrote:
8herveg wrote:
MAN opening the new pier today - but no travelators - seems unusual for quite a long pier?


There is a travelator along the new connection between the terminal and the new pier one, no travelator in the pier itself which is not entirely unusual, even the satellites at LHR T5 don't have travelators within the piers.


When you arrive at a T5 satelite pier you arrive in the middle of it, not at one end so the need for a travelator is reduce compared to the MAN pier which connects at one end
 
David_itl
Posts: 6349
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:20 am

Pegasus flight tines confirmed on routesonline. Shows 5 737s ex MAN but 4 737s and 1 A320 ftom SAW

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/283794/pegasus-airlines-adds-istanbul-manchester-link-from-july-2019
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:57 pm

This weeks update on the MANTP Project with Issue #85 of PlaneTalk which is kindly supplied by the MANTP Project Team.

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MANMatthew
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:40 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:35 pm

Whilst I appreciate the need for compromise during this current period of construction and improvements, the experience I had this morning coming in on QR21 was abysmal.

15 mins wait for stairs to be fetched, 10 mins wait on a bus, 15 mins bus journey to terminal. Topped off by a 10 minute walk to the new pick up point.

I feel sorry for PAX visiting MAN for the first time - can’t cast a positive impressive on them.

Fingers crossed we are up and running with things ASAP.
 
Mullion
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:02 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:19 am

First 2 maybe 3 due to handling agent 4th yes we know there will be a long walk at present, no worse than many other airports, took me over 40 minutes at CDG on an ordinary day to get to passport control.
 
David_itl
Posts: 6349
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:58 pm

Ettiad currently (approx midnight BST) showing A388 A6-APD operating on EY21 due to arrive 1505
 
User001
Posts: 889
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:03 pm

A380 is also confirmed on Etihad website. Nice little upgrade there!
 
David_itl
Posts: 6349
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:35 pm

so Virgin is not really seeing MAN as limited business traffic airport and major leisure airport. Article about the revamped 787s also includes this about the A350:

"For now, Kerzner's focus is on getting all twelve of Virgin Atlantic's Airbus A350s into the skies – a process which will occur in two stages from August 2019 to the end of 2021.

The first seven A350s will be delivered by late 2020 and will be based at London Heathrow and Manchester airports.

A further five A350s will follow through to late 2021: however, these are earmarked for London Gatwick and will feature fewer business class seats, in what Kerzner terms "a leisure configuration" to reflect Gatwick's role in hosting Virgin's holiday routes such as to the Caribbean."

So now it's case of working out routes. Would be nice if they replicated the Airbus example route for an A350-1000 of MAN-LAX.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-atlantic-s-boeing-787-business-class-seat-will-be-a-new-design
 
EK006
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:34 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:54 pm

David_itl wrote:
so Virgin is not really seeing MAN as limited business traffic airport and major leisure airport. Article about the revamped 787s also includes this about the A350:

"For now, Kerzner's focus is on getting all twelve of Virgin Atlantic's Airbus A350s into the skies – a process which will occur in two stages from August 2019 to the end of 2021.

The first seven A350s will be delivered by late 2020 and will be based at London Heathrow and Manchester airports.

A further five A350s will follow through to late 2021: however, these are earmarked for London Gatwick and will feature fewer business class seats, in what Kerzner terms "a leisure configuration" to reflect Gatwick's role in hosting Virgin's holiday routes such as to the Caribbean."

So now it's case of working out routes. Would be nice if they replicated the Airbus example route for an A350-1000 of MAN-LAX.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-atlantic-s-boeing-787-business-class-seat-will-be-a-new-design

Would Virgin be able to fill 44 seats on a regular basis( especially off peak). They could probably pull of JFK and ATL , but i feel they will struggle on other routes if they decide to put it on them e.g. BOS,LAX ec
 
klm617
Posts: 4339
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:36 pm

EK006 wrote:
David_itl wrote:
so Virgin is not really seeing MAN as limited business traffic airport and major leisure airport. Article about the revamped 787s also includes this about the A350:

"For now, Kerzner's focus is on getting all twelve of Virgin Atlantic's Airbus A350s into the skies – a process which will occur in two stages from August 2019 to the end of 2021.

The first seven A350s will be delivered by late 2020 and will be based at London Heathrow and Manchester airports.

A further five A350s will follow through to late 2021: however, these are earmarked for London Gatwick and will feature fewer business class seats, in what Kerzner terms "a leisure configuration" to reflect Gatwick's role in hosting Virgin's holiday routes such as to the Caribbean."

So now it's case of working out routes. Would be nice if they replicated the Airbus example route for an A350-1000 of MAN-LAX.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-atlantic-s-boeing-787-business-class-seat-will-be-a-new-design

Would Virgin be able to fill 44 seats on a regular basis( especially off peak). They could probably pull of JFK and ATL , but i feel they will struggle on other routes if they decide to put it on them e.g. BOS,LAX ec



I think Detroit Manchester is the next logical step. It gives VS access to the entire Delta west coast network without backtracking plus all of the Midwest plus an amazingly convenient airport for transfers better that either JFK or ATL hub wise.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
azz767
Posts: 122
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:03 pm

5 A350’s mean LGW should be all A350, I don’t see a day where they would need anything more other than perhaps one or max two days where they may be 6 flights meaning an A332 would need to be positioned down. Then you need one doing GLA and BFS Orlando routes.

That leaves the remaining 3 A332’s (now on extended leases I believe) to move up to MAN with probably 3 of the remaining 7 A350’s from the first batch. You would have to assume due to pure capacity that the 350’s will do at least one MCO. Another to do JFK and the third ATL leaving the 330’s to do BGI, LAS, LAX, BOS. Some of these you’d want year round and higher frequencies but then the A332 seems the perfect size a/c to enter new markets too. DTW is an obvious possibility, DEL or BOM too, then it really starts becoming about how big they see the MAN hub becoming.
 
8herveg
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:47 am

azz767 wrote:
5 A350’s mean LGW should be all A350, I don’t see a day where they would need anything more other than perhaps one or max two days where they may be 6 flights meaning an A332 would need to be positioned down. Then you need one doing GLA and BFS Orlando routes.

That leaves the remaining 3 A332’s (now on extended leases I believe) to move up to MAN with probably 3 of the remaining 7 A350’s from the first batch. You would have to assume due to pure capacity that the 350’s will do at least one MCO. Another to do JFK and the third ATL leaving the 330’s to do BGI, LAS, LAX, BOS. Some of these you’d want year round and higher frequencies but then the A332 seems the perfect size a/c to enter new markets too. DTW is an obvious possibility, DEL or BOM too, then it really starts becoming about how big they see the MAN hub becoming.


Aren't the A332's at MAN at the moment? I thought that was the whole point of them - that they were filling in the for the B787 issues, but to be used for the 'niche' routes at MAN?

What about the A333's?
 
azz767
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:08 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:23 am

8herveg wrote:
azz767 wrote:
5 A350’s mean LGW should be all A350, I don’t see a day where they would need anything more other than perhaps one or max two days where they may be 6 flights meaning an A332 would need to be positioned down. Then you need one doing GLA and BFS Orlando routes.

That leaves the remaining 3 A332’s (now on extended leases I believe) to move up to MAN with probably 3 of the remaining 7 A350’s from the first batch. You would have to assume due to pure capacity that the 350’s will do at least one MCO. Another to do JFK and the third ATL leaving the 330’s to do BGI, LAS, LAX, BOS. Some of these you’d want year round and higher frequencies but then the A332 seems the perfect size a/c to enter new markets too. DTW is an obvious possibility, DEL or BOM too, then it really starts becoming about how big they see the MAN hub becoming.


Aren't the A332's at MAN at the moment? I thought that was the whole point of them - that they were filling in the for the B787 issues, but to be used for the 'niche' routes at MAN?

What about the A333's?


2 are at MAN in the summer doing BGI & LAS and one weekly ATL at the moment (with BOS and LAX to re-start in the next month or so). With the other two at LGW doing Antuiga, St Lucia Grenada Bridgetown. One has done a BFS MCO run this year but I don't know if this is regular as the 747 has been there since. W19 however all of them were based at LGW (granted one was having a cabin upgrade at any point during W19) but MAN was all 747 this past winter and I do believe is due to be again W20?
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1075
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:38 am

EK006 wrote:
David_itl wrote:
so Virgin is not really seeing MAN as limited business traffic airport and major leisure airport. Article about the revamped 787s also includes this about the A350:

"For now, Kerzner's focus is on getting all twelve of Virgin Atlantic's Airbus A350s into the skies – a process which will occur in two stages from August 2019 to the end of 2021.

The first seven A350s will be delivered by late 2020 and will be based at London Heathrow and Manchester airports.

A further five A350s will follow through to late 2021: however, these are earmarked for London Gatwick and will feature fewer business class seats, in what Kerzner terms "a leisure configuration" to reflect Gatwick's role in hosting Virgin's holiday routes such as to the Caribbean."

So now it's case of working out routes. Would be nice if they replicated the Airbus example route for an A350-1000 of MAN-LAX.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-atlantic-s-boeing-787-business-class-seat-will-be-a-new-design

Would Virgin be able to fill 44 seats on a regular basis( especially off peak). They could probably pull of JFK and ATL , but i feel they will struggle on other routes if they decide to put it on them e.g. BOS,LAX ec


Time will tell, but as far as the first batch of A350's being used at MAN is concerned, my hunch (and it's just that) is that they're for the JFK and/or ATL routes. At least at JFK they can be swapped to go back to LHR like what they do already at MCO for 747's needing to return to LGW.

8herveg wrote:
Aren't the A332's at MAN at the moment? I thought that was the whole point of them - that they were filling in the for the B787 issues, but to be used for the 'niche' routes at MAN?


I think it's safe to say that idea was ditched fairly quickly as soon as they started being allocated to a number of LGW-Caribbean routes last summer. This coming winter it looks like the only route the A332's will be operating from MAN is JFK plus the Friday BGI flight - ATL, MCO and Monday BGI is 747's.

azz767 wrote:
5 A350’s mean LGW should be all A350, I don’t see a day where they would need anything more other than perhaps one or max two days where they may be 6 flights meaning an A332 would need to be positioned down. Then you need one doing GLA and BFS Orlando routes.

That leaves the remaining 3 A332’s (now on extended leases I believe) to move up to MAN with probably 3 of the remaining 7 A350’s from the first batch. You would have to assume due to pure capacity that the 350’s will do at least one MCO. Another to do JFK and the third ATL leaving the 330’s to do BGI, LAS, LAX, BOS. Some of these you’d want year round and higher frequencies but then the A332 seems the perfect size a/c to enter new markets too. DTW is an obvious possibility, DEL or BOM too, then it really starts becoming about how big they see the MAN hub becoming.


Agreed about MCO involving an A350 in some form. People talk about using A330's with increased frequencies instead, but that's not fully straightforward (e.g. Where are the slots for these? Will VS merge two flights into one if bookings can't support more than one flight (something that has happened before)?) and having been on some MAN-MCO 747 flights outside the school holidays where they've been full or very well loaded, I think there will be no issues filling a higher density A350 MAN-MCO.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:14 pm

It’ll be interesting to see how many wide bodies VS base at MAN when the fleet starts to become more rationalised.

My understanding is that the 4x A332 were on 4 year leases (to end of S22 i think?) by which point 8x B744 and 7xA346 are due to be replaced by 12x A35K.

This represents a net loss of 7 aircraft (down to 39 from 46) and whilst this will be alleviated by improved B789 availability, more aircraft are likely to be required unless VS are to downsize (unlikely as public statements and actions indicate they are in growth mode).

It is possible that MAN could see a 10 aircraft base in the relative near future with anything from 2-4 A35K (mixed premium and leisure configs) to serve JFK, ATL and MCO with a fleet of 6-8 A330 to serve BGI, LAX, BOS, LAS - perhaps other new routes as well.

Much is subject to the composition of “Virgin Connect” (or whatever BE is called moving forward) which remains to be seen.
 
azz767
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:42 pm

I know the 744's are supposed to be gone by 2021, but I could see 2/3 sticking around for an extra year or so to do just MCO until they've decided what they're going to do with MCO. If they don't keep them any longer it'll certainly be the last route it flies IMO.
One other option of course is that of the 5 'leisure' A350's going to 'LGW', actually 1 or 2 do MAN-MCO and just swap round with ones doing LGW-MCO like the 744's used to (when they only did MCO from MAN). Thus leaving the more premium heavy A350's to do as David mentioned JKF and ATL and maybe LAX if they can get it year round.
 
clampdaniel
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:45 pm

Hello, its my wish to know about Manchester and today because of you i have known
 
User001
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:33 pm

Just putting this here as it may be missed featuring in the London based threads.

Juneyao Airlines recently applied to serve Shanghai-London, along with several other carriers.

Juneyao were unsuccessful in their application but really want to serve the U.K. market, so have now applied to the CAAC to extend their new Helsinki flight to Manchester instead of serving London.

The flight will be Shanghai-Helsinki-Manchester, 4 Times a week on B787-9 from November 2019. They have also requested 5th freedoms on the Helsinki-Manchester sectors.
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:09 am

azz767 wrote:
I know the 744's are supposed to be gone by 2021, but I could see 2/3 sticking around for an extra year or so to do just MCO until they've decided what they're going to do with MCO. If they don't keep them any longer it'll certainly be the last route it flies IMO.
One other option of course is that of the 5 'leisure' A350's going to 'LGW', actually 1 or 2 do MAN-MCO and just swap round with ones doing LGW-MCO like the 744's used to (when they only did MCO from MAN). Thus leaving the more premium heavy A350's to do as David mentioned JKF and ATL and maybe LAX if they can get it year round.


There’s a long way to go I think before LAX can get to a point where it is year round - but there are indications that building blocks are / were being put in place.

For example, in the northern summer, MAN currently supports 5x weekly flights to LAX (VS and TCX). VS should be fairly well placed to take that market share and this, together with an optimised “Virgin Connect” should permit a 5x weekly service in the fairly short term (daily would be ideal in the mid to long term).

I’m the northern winter, they need to be more creative. The demand should not dry up between MAN and LAX, but adding codeshares through to AKL on ANZ (which they have done) and to MEL, SYD and BNE on VOZ (which I don’t think they’ve done and I’m not certain if VOZ operate BNE-LAX) would add countercyclical demand.

The idea with Jet was to place MAN as a transit point between BOM (and possibly DEL) and LAX, JFK, BOS etc. This may yet come to pass, but Jet’s situation will clearly have an impact on this moving forward.

To circle back to the original point, I think the premium A35K could operate MAN-JFK/ATL with leisure A35K operating MAN-MCO (three A35K at MAN seems a bit steep - I could see a case for 11-14x Weekly MAN-JFK on the A333). The A333 or A332 should be plenty on MAN-LAX for the next 3/4 years as the route hopefully beds in and frequency gets to where it needs to be.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:15 am

User001 wrote:
Just putting this here as it may be missed featuring in the London based threads.

Juneyao Airlines recently applied to serve Shanghai-London, along with several other carriers.

Juneyao were unsuccessful in their application but really want to serve the U.K. market, so have now applied to the CAAC to extend their new Helsinki flight to Manchester instead of serving London.

The flight will be Shanghai-Helsinki-Manchester, 4 Times a week on B787-9 from November 2019. They have also requested 5th freedoms on the Helsinki-Manchester sectors.


It would be good to see Shanghai (finally) appear, but that enthusiasm is tempered slightly because I foresee similar problems to those faced by HU.

Specifically, neither of them are the major network carriers, and the service at the Chinese end frequently falls short of that experienced by the major Chinese network carriers (Air China in this instance) and I think that is what is needed to make a mainland Chinese route work well (ie follow the CX template).
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 223
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:48 pm

The last few weeks have been rather hectic, hence the delay in posting these updates.

MANTP Weekly Update #86, courtesy of the MANTP Project team:

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Last edited by Scottiedog on Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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