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Boeing74741R
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:40 am

8herveg wrote:
Good article. What destinations to people expect to see/increased from MAN?

ANU? The return of CUN? MIA, SEA, the return of SFO?

BOM and DEL?

CPT, JNB?


Making BOS year-round and LAX year-round with more frequencies would also be a good move. That's good news about the LAX load factors being above average and seems to justify their decision to launch the route in lieu of SFO. You would think that load factors will improve next year with the absence of Thomas Cook competing on the route.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:48 pm

If it was me, and without knowing the full economic picture (but knowing a little), I would focus on the following strategy (this ignores the detail of Virgin Connect but assumes a slightly increased feed from it into the long haul network).

My first priority would be getting the present core routes to a regular standard of service with the right aircraft. Much of this appears to be in train already, but my suggestions are as follows:

1 - ATL with the B744 has led to some extraordinarily high passenger flows, but it alarmist certainly has too few business class seats. This should be a daily service on an A333 all year (which it was prior to the B789 flees crisis). If another route could be handed over to DL to free up VS metal elsewhere, this would probably be it.

2 - MCO can only be served with the B744 for volume reasons (eventually replaced with the A35K). This should now be double daily for the overwhelming majority of the year, with the occasional boost from an A330.

3 - JFK has a similar situation to ATL, but likely warrants multiple daily frequencies. Somewhere between 11-14x weekly on the A333 is about right (double daily over summer).

My second priority would be to get the existing seasonal routes to the USA (LAX, BOS, LAS) to year round service, daily in the summer and at least 4/5 weekly in winter. LAX and LAS would be suitable for the A330, BOS is probably fine on the DL B752 for now. There are some comments to this effect in the article. Addressing the first and second priorities establishes a core network which can probably be sustained today without major feed elsewhere.

My third priority, would be to examine the specific opportunities in the Caribbean and Central America presented by TCX’s demise and which are not yet filled by TUi. This likely includes Cancun, Antigua, Tobago, Montego Bay and more Barbados. I could see Cancun and Barbados at 4x weekly A332, the rest no more than 2/3x weekly (perhaps some double drop).

My fourth priority would be new opportunities, including linking east and west via MAN. To me, the most obvious TATL routes are SFO and MIA (even then SFO seems much more likely). To me both are seasonal 3x weekly at least initially. I have seen comments in favour of SEA and DTW. Whilst I follow the hub logic (and both are DL metal possibilities) I don’t sense the real opportunity there in the same way as ATL or on a p2p basis like SFO. Looking east, the most obvious routes are BOM and DEL. Each should probably be daily on an A330 to feed TATL (and vice versa). I can see an argument for BKK, PVG and seasonally CPT. Each of the latter feel some way away.

Of course, aircraft and crew availability are as important as market. It may require the A339 to enter the fleet before some of the above becomes a reality (they may be able to delay retirements of the B744 and A346).

All very interesting.
 
Scottiedog
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:00 am

MANTP Update #113 dated 18th October 2019 - Courtesy of the MANTP Team to whom full credit is given

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DobboDobbo
Topic Author
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:55 pm

Possibility of further route news from UA at MAN?

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economi ... ssion=true

Seen at: @airportnewsMAN
 
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klm617
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:39 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
If it was me, and without knowing the full economic picture (but knowing a little), I would focus on the following strategy (this ignores the detail of Virgin Connect but assumes a slightly increased feed from it into the long haul network).

My first priority would be getting the present core routes to a regular standard of service with the right aircraft. Much of this appears to be in train already, but my suggestions are as follows:

1 - ATL with the B744 has led to some extraordinarily high passenger flows, but it alarmist certainly has too few business class seats. This should be a daily service on an A333 all year (which it was prior to the B789 flees crisis). If another route could be handed over to DL to free up VS metal elsewhere, this would probably be it.

2 - MCO can only be served with the B744 for volume reasons (eventually replaced with the A35K). This should now be double daily for the overwhelming majority of the year, with the occasional boost from an A330.

3 - JFK has a similar situation to ATL, but likely warrants multiple daily frequencies. Somewhere between 11-14x weekly on the A333 is about right (double daily over summer).

My second priority would be to get the existing seasonal routes to the USA (LAX, BOS, LAS) to year round service, daily in the summer and at least 4/5 weekly in winter. LAX and LAS would be suitable for the A330, BOS is probably fine on the DL B752 for now. There are some comments to this effect in the article. Addressing the first and second priorities establishes a core network which can probably be sustained today without major feed elsewhere.

My third priority, would be to examine the specific opportunities in the Caribbean and Central America presented by TCX’s demise and which are not yet filled by TUi. This likely includes Cancun, Antigua, Tobago, Montego Bay and more Barbados. I could see Cancun and Barbados at 4x weekly A332, the rest no more than 2/3x weekly (perhaps some double drop).

My fourth priority would be new opportunities, including linking east and west via MAN. To me, the most obvious TATL routes are SFO and MIA (even then SFO seems much more likely). To me both are seasonal 3x weekly at least initially. I have seen comments in favour of SEA and DTW. Whilst I follow the hub logic (and both are DL metal possibilities) I don’t sense the real opportunity there in the same way as ATL or on a p2p basis like SFO. Looking east, the most obvious routes are BOM and DEL. Each should probably be daily on an A330 to feed TATL (and vice versa). I can see an argument for BKK, PVG and seasonally CPT. Each of the latter feel some way away.

Of course, aircraft and crew availability are as important as market. It may require the A339 to enter the fleet before some of the above becomes a reality (they may be able to delay retirements of the B744 and A346).

All very interesting.


Linking Detroit to Manchester should be of high priority as well. This would give DL/VS great onestop connections to every major city in the Western and Midwest United States without having to back track or make double connections. DTW is the next logical add.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Cunard
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:26 am

klm617 wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
If it was me, and without knowing the full economic picture (but knowing a little), I would focus on the following strategy (this ignores the detail of Virgin Connect but assumes a slightly increased feed from it into the long haul network).

My first priority would be getting the present core routes to a regular standard of service with the right aircraft. Much of this appears to be in train already, but my suggestions are as follows:

1 - ATL with the B744 has led to some extraordinarily high passenger flows, but it alarmist certainly has too few business class seats. This should be a daily service on an A333 all year (which it was prior to the B789 flees crisis). If another route could be handed over to DL to free up VS metal elsewhere, this would probably be it.

2 - MCO can only be served with the B744 for volume reasons (eventually replaced with the A35K). This should now be double daily for the overwhelming majority of the year, with the occasional boost from an A330.

3 - JFK has a similar situation to ATL, but likely warrants multiple daily frequencies. Somewhere between 11-14x weekly on the A333 is about right (double daily over summer).

My second priority would be to get the existing seasonal routes to the USA (LAX, BOS, LAS) to year round service, daily in the summer and at least 4/5 weekly in winter. LAX and LAS would be suitable for the A330, BOS is probably fine on the DL B752 for now. There are some comments to this effect in the article. Addressing the first and second priorities establishes a core network which can probably be sustained today without major feed elsewhere.

My third priority, would be to examine the specific opportunities in the Caribbean and Central America presented by TCX’s demise and which are not yet filled by TUi. This likely includes Cancun, Antigua, Tobago, Montego Bay and more Barbados. I could see Cancun and Barbados at 4x weekly A332, the rest no more than 2/3x weekly (perhaps some double drop).

My fourth priority would be new opportunities, including linking east and west via MAN. To me, the most obvious TATL routes are SFO and MIA (even then SFO seems much more likely). To me both are seasonal 3x weekly at least initially. I have seen comments in favour of SEA and DTW. Whilst I follow the hub logic (and both are DL metal possibilities) I don’t sense the real opportunity there in the same way as ATL or on a p2p basis like SFO. Looking east, the most obvious routes are BOM and DEL. Each should probably be daily on an A330 to feed TATL (and vice versa). I can see an argument for BKK, PVG and seasonally CPT. Each of the latter feel some way away.

Of course, aircraft and crew availability are as important as market. It may require the A339 to enter the fleet before some of the above becomes a reality (they may be able to delay retirements of the B744 and A346).

All very interesting.


Linking Detroit to Manchester should be of high priority as well. This would give DL/VS great onestop connections to every manormajor city in the Western and Midwest United States without having to back track or make double connections. DTW is the next logical add.


How many times do have to advocate a DTW to MAN link on these forums, I'll give you ten out of ten for persistence. When this dream flight of yours is actually announced I do hope that your be on the first flight!
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
8herveg
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:16 am

DobboDobbo wrote:
Possibility of further route news from UA at MAN?

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economi ... ssion=true

Seen at: @airportnewsMAN


Interesting. Although you'd think they'd return to the cities which they served before (BFS, BRS, NCL), before serving a new airport which is only 1 hour down the road. Surely there's be a big overlap of passengers using the airports. Wouldn't it be better to have more frequency from one of the airports rather than spreading yourself thin across two?
 
Mullion
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:10 am

They don`t really mean a service will happen , it is just a possibility that it could as some point in the future however ORD to MAN is the one that is likely to happen
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:33 am

8herveg wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
Possibility of further route news from UA at MAN?

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economi ... ssion=true

Seen at: @airportnewsMAN


Interesting. Although you'd think they'd return to the cities which they served before (BFS, BRS, NCL), before serving a new airport which is only 1 hour down the road. Surely there's be a big overlap of passengers using the airports. Wouldn't it be better to have more frequency from one of the airports rather than spreading yourself thin across two?


The Liverpool Echo were getting quite excited about the prospect of UA launching from LPL, though I'm not that convinced they will personally. It would be nice, but there would need to be some investment in facilities there to make it a bit more attractive (e.g. airbridges). I could be wrong but the the runway length will restrict what aircraft can be used and how far they can go, though the airport can handle widebodies.

Otherwise, I would agree that there's some overlap and I'm not holding my breath.

Mullion wrote:
They don`t really mean a service will happen , it is just a possibility that it could as some point in the future however ORD to MAN is the one that is likely to happen


MAN-ORD would be logical and there's a void there since AA pulled their service and BMI a decade prior. ORD is also a large UA hub (larger than IAD when that service existed) so they wouldn't have to solely rely on O&D traffic.
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:00 am

8herveg wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
Possibility of further route news from UA at MAN?

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economi ... ssion=true

Seen at: @airportnewsMAN


Interesting. Although you'd think they'd return to the cities which they served before (BFS, BRS, NCL), before serving a new airport which is only 1 hour down the road. Surely there's be a big overlap of passengers using the airports. Wouldn't it be better to have more frequency from one of the airports rather than spreading yourself thin across two?


I think it’s highly unlikely UA (or any long haul) will open LPL due to its proximity to MAN. It has been identified above but the next logical step is ORD-MAN.
 
8herveg
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:13 am

DobboDobbo wrote:
8herveg wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
Possibility of further route news from UA at MAN?

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economi ... ssion=true

Seen at: @airportnewsMAN


Interesting. Although you'd think they'd return to the cities which they served before (BFS, BRS, NCL), before serving a new airport which is only 1 hour down the road. Surely there's be a big overlap of passengers using the airports. Wouldn't it be better to have more frequency from one of the airports rather than spreading yourself thin across two?


I think it’s highly unlikely UA (or any long haul) will open LPL due to its proximity to MAN. It has been identified above but the next logical step is ORD-MAN.


I'm surprised UA haven't launched ORD-MAN before to be honest. Did they codeshare when BD operated it? Seems like a big obvious gap (to me) in their network. I'm sure even a seasonal B757 could work.
 
jubaexpress
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:29 am

8herveg wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
8herveg wrote:

Interesting. Although you'd think they'd return to the cities which they served before (BFS, BRS, NCL), before serving a new airport which is only 1 hour down the road. Surely there's be a big overlap of passengers using the airports. Wouldn't it be better to have more frequency from one of the airports rather than spreading yourself thin across two?


I think it’s highly unlikely UA (or any long haul) will open LPL due to its proximity to MAN. It has been identified above but the next logical step is ORD-MAN.


I'm surprised UA haven't launched ORD-MAN before to be honest. Did they codeshare when BD operated it? Seems like a big obvious gap (to me) in their network. I'm sure even a seasonal B757 could work.


I seem to recall that when AA operated the 757 to Chicago it spent a good deal of its time going to Bangor for fuel which made it quite an unattractive prospect for regular customers.

The only reason I could see opening Liverpool when you already serve Manchester would be a substantial financial incentive offered by the airport, or someone offering to buy a good number of the seats (cruise/tour operator) that stipulated it leave from Liverpool rather than Manchester.
 
User001
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:46 am

Its worth pointing out the headline for the article is actually quite misleading. When you read into the article, there wasn’t actually any suggestion that the Liverpool route was imminent in any shape or form.

What the VP of United actually said was that, with the right aircraft, and the right economics, routes to smaller cities could be possible, which is a roundabout way of saying we have no plans at the moment because it simply wouldn’t be viable, the airline World way of saying ‘it’s not you, it’s me’, if you will. He never actually mentioned Liverpool.

What the VP did go on to say was, that with mature growth he next logical step was to link Manchester with another city. And in that case, the 2 big obvious choices would be to either re-instate IAD if it has to be a B757 route, or, my bets would be on adding ORD, possibly with a B767-300 operating both EWR and ORD routes from MAN.

The reporter for this article therefore seems to have jumped to conclusions or got their wires crossed. The line of ‘add a second city’ didnt refer to adding a second city in the North West, when you read the line properly, in its context, said add a second city from Manchester. The fact that UA said new routes are always under evaluation, the reporter has, from their Liverpool perspective, insinuated Liverpool is possibles, without the VP actually saying as much.

Also, when larger cities are unserved, like Birmingham, Hamburg, Seville, Lyon, Oslo etc, to think UA would suddenly jump on n a new airport a mere 37 miles from a current, growing outstation before adding those larger points is rather absurd. This would dilute the original station and make potentially both routes unprofitable. I’m not aware of many UA long haul routes that serve stations less than 50 miles from each other, for example they don’t even serve both main London or Paris airports side by side. To suggest the North West would suddenly become a special case in that is rather odd. Even if there was a cruise contract, I’m pretty sure most operators would be fine with the current arrangement.

So in summary, I don’t see EWR-LPL on UA happening in 5, hell, even 10 years or more to be honest.
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:53 am

8herveg wrote:

I'm surprised UA haven't launched ORD-MAN before to be honest. Did they codeshare when BD operated it? Seems like a big obvious gap (to me) in their network. I'm sure even a seasonal B757 could work.


Yes they did. Back in 2000 BD and UA formed a partnership that was very close for the pre-JV era. MAN-ORD and MAN-IAD were launched because they were UA hubs, the flights carried UA codes, and the check-in area at Terminal 1 had BMI-United co-branding (this was in the BA "hub" days so Terminal 3 was only BA and partners, apart from domestic)
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
8herveg
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:58 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
8herveg wrote:

I'm surprised UA haven't launched ORD-MAN before to be honest. Did they codeshare when BD operated it? Seems like a big obvious gap (to me) in their network. I'm sure even a seasonal B757 could work.


Yes they did. Back in 2000 BD and UA formed a partnership that was very close for the pre-JV era. MAN-ORD and MAN-IAD were launched because they were UA hubs, the flights carried UA codes, and the check-in area at Terminal 1 had BMI-United co-branding (this was in the BA "hub" days so Terminal 3 was only BA and partners, apart from domestic)


Thanks. And that was with the much bigger A330! How have they not reinstated the route since?! Even with a B757? Or even a B767? Surely it would work? Especially given AA was so inconsistent on the route.
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:00 pm

8herveg wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
8herveg wrote:

I'm surprised UA haven't launched ORD-MAN before to be honest. Did they codeshare when BD operated it? Seems like a big obvious gap (to me) in their network. I'm sure even a seasonal B757 could work.


Yes they did. Back in 2000 BD and UA formed a partnership that was very close for the pre-JV era. MAN-ORD and MAN-IAD were launched because they were UA hubs, the flights carried UA codes, and the check-in area at Terminal 1 had BMI-United co-branding (this was in the BA "hub" days so Terminal 3 was only BA and partners, apart from domestic)


Thanks. And that was with the much bigger A330! How have they not reinstated the route since?! Even with a B757? Or even a B767? Surely it would work? Especially given AA was so inconsistent on the route.


No, nothing since.

IAD has failed twice now. Firstly BD down-gauged it to a 757 leased from Icelandair before scrapping the route before MAN-ORD was cut, and then it was reinstated by moving the second daily EWR after the merger. That said, UA have grown the number of connections via IAD over the past couple of years so it would probably stand a better chance of surviving now than it did when it was cut.

I think UA to ORD is somewhat inevitable, but it won't be next summer. Maybe 2021, presumably summer seasonal to start with. I think UA would have better success than AA did towards the end, with a larger hub in ORD than AA do and they are refocusing EWR increasingly towards O&D. In comparison AA(/BA) could/were pushing more connecting traffic over PHL and LHR.
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klm617
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:20 pm

Cunard wrote:
klm617 wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
If it was me, and without knowing the full economic picture (but knowing a little), I would focus on the following strategy (this ignores the detail of Virgin Connect but assumes a slightly increased feed from it into the long haul network).

My first priority would be getting the present core routes to a regular standard of service with the right aircraft. Much of this appears to be in train already, but my suggestions are as follows:

1 - ATL with the B744 has led to some extraordinarily high passenger flows, but it alarmist certainly has too few business class seats. This should be a daily service on an A333 all year (which it was prior to the B789 flees crisis). If another route could be handed over to DL to free up VS metal elsewhere, this would probably be it.

2 - MCO can only be served with the B744 for volume reasons (eventually replaced with the A35K). This should now be double daily for the overwhelming majority of the year, with the occasional boost from an A330.

3 - JFK has a similar situation to ATL, but likely warrants multiple daily frequencies. Somewhere between 11-14x weekly on the A333 is about right (double daily over summer).

My second priority would be to get the existing seasonal routes to the USA (LAX, BOS, LAS) to year round service, daily in the summer and at least 4/5 weekly in winter. LAX and LAS would be suitable for the A330, BOS is probably fine on the DL B752 for now. There are some comments to this effect in the article. Addressing the first and second priorities establishes a core network which can probably be sustained today without major feed elsewhere.

My third priority, would be to examine the specific opportunities in the Caribbean and Central America presented by TCX’s demise and which are not yet filled by TUi. This likely includes Cancun, Antigua, Tobago, Montego Bay and more Barbados. I could see Cancun and Barbados at 4x weekly A332, the rest no more than 2/3x weekly (perhaps some double drop).

My fourth priority would be new opportunities, including linking east and west via MAN. To me, the most obvious TATL routes are SFO and MIA (even then SFO seems much more likely). To me both are seasonal 3x weekly at least initially. I have seen comments in favour of SEA and DTW. Whilst I follow the hub logic (and both are DL metal possibilities) I don’t sense the real opportunity there in the same way as ATL or on a p2p basis like SFO. Looking east, the most obvious routes are BOM and DEL. Each should probably be daily on an A330 to feed TATL (and vice versa). I can see an argument for BKK, PVG and seasonally CPT. Each of the latter feel some way away.

Of course, aircraft and crew availability are as important as market. It may require the A339 to enter the fleet before some of the above becomes a reality (they may be able to delay retirements of the B744 and A346).

All very interesting.


Linking Detroit to Manchester should be of high priority as well. This would give DL/VS great onestop connections to every manormajor city in the Western and Midwest United States without having to back track or make double connections. DTW is the next logical add.


How many times do have to advocate a DTW to MAN link on these forums, I'll give you ten out of ten for persistence. When this dream flight of yours is actually announced I do hope that your be on the first flight!



Why is it so far fetched to think a DTW-MAN flight would not work. VS being a major player in MAN and DTW a major DL hub with over 400 flights a day with connections to the entire western Delta network. It would carry more premium traffic than ATL-MAN as it's likely that most of the MAN-ATL is low premium Florida traffic. And then there is this. So don't be so quick to count Detroit out. https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... -for-2017/
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:01 pm

klm617 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Linking Detroit to Manchester should be of high priority as well. This would give DL/VS great onestop connections to every manormajor city in the Western and Midwest United States without having to back track or make double connections. DTW is the next logical add.


How many times do have to advocate a DTW to MAN link on these forums, I'll give you ten out of ten for persistence. When this dream flight of yours is actually announced I do hope that your be on the first flight!



Why is it so far fetched to think a DTW-MAN flight would not work. VS being a major player in MAN and DTW a major DL hub with over 400 flights a day with connections to the entire western Delta network. It would carry more premium traffic than ATL-MAN as it's likely that most of the MAN-ATL is low premium Florida traffic. And then there is this. So don't be so quick to count Detroit out. https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... -for-2017/



I'm sure Cunard can clarify in due course but my interpretation of his post is not that he is saying a DTW-MAN route is far fetched, it was aimed at the number of times it has been advocated in here by yourself (which is your opinion).

I think this route is more realistic now than it was 2/3 years ago given the renewed focus on building a hub at MAN. This now means there are hubs at either end and this should be enough to make the business case for the route (as opposed to a double daily MAN-ATL for example).

This route needs transfer traffic as it is not a huge O&D market. The building blocks seem to be in place for this.

I will echo Cunards comment - if this route comes to pass, I hope you are on the inaugural flight!
 
Cunard
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:20 am

Exactly in no way did I use the words FAR FETCHED in my post.

I have no doubt that it will eventually happen at some point.

Of course as you have rightly pointed out, I was referring to his continuous comments on these forums advocating DTW to MAN, it's getting rather tiresome tbh!
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Armodeen
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:10 am

I hope that if the DTW route happens that I will be on the inaugural, never mind 617! Would be a very handy route personally but I won’t hold my breath.
 
Scottiedog
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:21 pm

Time for this week's update courtesy of the MANTP Team-to whom full credit (and copyright) is given.

MANTP Update #114 dated 25th October 2019

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Scottiedog
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:19 pm

MANTP Update #115 dated 1st November courtesy of the MANTP Team - to whom full credit is given.

All photographs are copyright MAG

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David_itl
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:18 pm

Virgin making Barbados 3 weekly year round. No details yet found for the 11% increase in summer capacity with "more flights to some of their more popular destinations" https://stluciatimes.com/virgin-atlantic-announces-increased-flights-to-barbados/
 
Belperflyer
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:24 pm

How long will the walk be from check in to the last gate on the extension pier ?
 
8herveg
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:29 am

David_itl wrote:
Virgin making Barbados 3 weekly year round. No details yet found for the 11% increase in summer capacity with "more flights to some of their more popular destinations" https://stluciatimes.com/virgin-atlantic-announces-increased-flights-to-barbados/


Great news.

Do we know when VS are going to announce these new destinations from MAN? I would have thought soon, if they're wanting to launch them for the S20 season?

And whilst on topic, do we know when they're going to announce the Virgin Connect changes?
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
Posts: 1127
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:00 pm

8herveg wrote:
David_itl wrote:
Virgin making Barbados 3 weekly year round. No details yet found for the 11% increase in summer capacity with "more flights to some of their more popular destinations" https://stluciatimes.com/virgin-atlantic-announces-increased-flights-to-barbados/


Great news.

Do we know when VS are going to announce these new destinations from MAN? I would have thought soon, if they're wanting to launch them for the S20 season?

And whilst on topic, do we know when they're going to announce the Virgin Connect changes?


VS have announced two extra frequencies to each of LAS (to 6x weekly) and MCO (to 14x weekly) and one to BGI ( to 3x weekly). This is apparently an overall 11% growth in seat capacity.

There is an indication more is to follow, but nothing confirmed.

A story yesterday indicated VS were interested in slots at PMI, which may indicate the direction of travel for Virgin Connect.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... manchester
 
8herveg
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:13 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
8herveg wrote:
David_itl wrote:
Virgin making Barbados 3 weekly year round. No details yet found for the 11% increase in summer capacity with "more flights to some of their more popular destinations" https://stluciatimes.com/virgin-atlantic-announces-increased-flights-to-barbados/


Great news.

Do we know when VS are going to announce these new destinations from MAN? I would have thought soon, if they're wanting to launch them for the S20 season?

And whilst on topic, do we know when they're going to announce the Virgin Connect changes?


VS have announced two extra frequencies to each of LAS (to 6x weekly) and MCO (to 14x weekly) and one to BGI ( to 3x weekly). This is apparently an overall 11% growth in seat capacity.

There is an indication more is to follow, but nothing confirmed.

A story yesterday indicated VS were interested in slots at PMI, which may indicate the direction of travel for Virgin Connect.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... manchester


Wow - I hadn't seen this announcement. LAS - 6 x weekly?! That is a serious increase in capacity. To think it was only recently 2 x weekly, then 4 x weekly this year and now 6 x weekly.

PMI though?! I assumed Virgin Connect were going to steer away from the bucket and spade routes and just stick to domestic and some European capitals and regional routes.
 
FLYKTPA
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:17 pm

Do any of you think VS would increase MCO past 2x daily? Would they try something like TPA 2x weekly to give passengers options?
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
8herveg
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:30 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
Do any of you think VS would increase MCO past 2x daily? Would they try something like TPA 2x weekly to give passengers options?


Out of interest, do we know what the/if there is any demand to Tampa? Apart from Orlando, where do most Brits holiday in Florida?
 
User001
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:33 pm

Quite a lot of brits do visit the clearwater/St Petes area so I'm sure TPA could do OK at say 2/3 weekly.

MAN is one of TPA's highest desired routes to Europe too.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2712
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:00 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:

A story yesterday indicated VS were interested in slots at PMI, which may indicate the direction of travel for Virgin Connect.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... manchester


flyBe operates or operated into PMI from DSA, EXT, SOU and CWL. Why would VS apply for slots for Connect? If VS themselves are applying for slots could they be looking to use their wide bodies between turns to the US as EI do at DUB? Virgin holidays have absolutely no presence in the short-haul market though.
 
GOMYT
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:39 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:37 pm

TUI flying 2x weekly to Sharm-el-Sheikh (SSH) as of February 2020

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-17199017
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
Posts: 1127
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:55 pm

GOMYT wrote:
TUI flying 2x weekly to Sharm-el-Sheikh (SSH) as of February 2020

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-17199017


Some more long haul flying from TUi at MAN:

Barbados - 2 to 3 weekly.

Cancun - 3 to 5 weekly.

Goa - 2 to 3 weekly.

Punta Cana - 2 to 4 weekly.

Credit: @seanM1997 on Twitter.
Last edited by DobboDobbo on Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
Posts: 1127
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:06 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:

A story yesterday indicated VS were interested in slots at PMI, which may indicate the direction of travel for Virgin Connect.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... manchester


flyBe operates or operated into PMI from DSA, EXT, SOU and CWL. Why would VS apply for slots for Connect? If VS themselves are applying for slots could they be looking to use their wide bodies between turns to the US as EI do at DUB? Virgin holidays have absolutely no presence in the short-haul market though.


Perhaps VS think MAN-PMI is a good route for O&D and also connecting traffic - both would likely have to be seasonal I think and would probably need something in between an A330 and a Dash-8.

I’m not expecting this to materialise - I think this is VS kicking the tyres in a period where TCX’s demise means a lot is up in the air...
 
FlyerTalkUserNa
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:45 am

User001 wrote:
Quite a lot of brits do visit the clearwater/St Petes area so I'm sure TPA could do OK at say 2/3 weekly.

MAN is one of TPA's highest desired routes to Europe too.


Could see this as a potential DL 767 route as Virgin Connect is developed at MAN. DL already operates a less than weekly TATL TPA-AMS and it wouldn’t require the bigger birds VS operates out of MAN.

I can’t get over the recent VS map showing destinations they wanted to fly to that was ridiculously ambitious and still didn’t list TPA.
 
8herveg
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:53 am

FlyerTalkUserNa wrote:
User001 wrote:
Quite a lot of brits do visit the clearwater/St Petes area so I'm sure TPA could do OK at say 2/3 weekly.

MAN is one of TPA's highest desired routes to Europe too.


Could see this as a potential DL 767 route as Virgin Connect is developed at MAN. DL already operates a less than weekly TATL TPA-AMS and it wouldn’t require the bigger birds VS operates out of MAN.

I can’t get over the recent VS map showing destinations they wanted to fly to that was ridiculously ambitious and still didn’t list TPA.


Maybe TPA is a better route for TUI to fly rather than VS?

Also, wouldn't DL (or even VS) operate to LHR or LGW from TPA first, before flying to MAN?
 
User001
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:01 am

TUI won't fly to TPA as they now have an exclusivity clause with Melbourne FL Airport that for at least 5 years, TUI can only fly to MLB and MIA (latter for TUI Netherlands flights).
 
FlyerTalkUserNa
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:36 am

8herveg wrote:
FlyerTalkUserNa wrote:
User001 wrote:
Quite a lot of brits do visit the clearwater/St Petes area so I'm sure TPA could do OK at say 2/3 weekly.

MAN is one of TPA's highest desired routes to Europe too.


Could see this as a potential DL 767 route as Virgin Connect is developed at MAN. DL already operates a less than weekly TATL TPA-AMS and it wouldn’t require the bigger birds VS operates out of MAN.

I can’t get over the recent VS map showing destinations they wanted to fly to that was ridiculously ambitious and still didn’t list TPA.


Maybe TPA is a better route for TUI to fly rather than VS?

Also, wouldn't DL (or even VS) operate to LHR or LGW from TPA first, before flying to MAN?


Possibly, but I doubt it given BA and DY already fly TPA-LGW.

I could see a way for DL/VS to make a business case between MAN-MCO//TPA-MAN traffic, commanding a premium on a monopoly nonstop TPA-MAN, and providing onward connecting feed on Virgin Connect.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:36 pm

8herveg wrote:
Out of interest, do we know what the/if there is any demand to Tampa?


Me! :lol: But only because it saves a 2 hour drive along Interstate 4 to/from MCO, though admittedly that journey isn't the end of the world. It would be longer if to/from SFB or soon MLB once TUI switch there.

TPA is also an alternative airport for anyone heading to the Orlando area and Disney is within 90 minutes driving time.

User001 wrote:
Quite a lot of brits do visit the clearwater/St Petes area so I'm sure TPA could do OK at say 2/3 weekly.

MAN is one of TPA's highest desired routes to Europe too.


Agreed. I've been to Florida six times, have stayed in the Tampa Bay area on four of those trips and will do so again on our next trip. Tour operators such as Virgin Holidays offer accommodation options in the Tampa Bay area and it's a popular option for those who want to chill by the beaches after time at the parks, or even just go to that area alone.

A handful of times per week and/or even seasonally should do well and will make the area more attractive for those wanting to also do Orlando in the same trip as they could fly into one airport and out of another. It would be interesting to see the figures of those travelling MAN-TPA indirectly via AMS/ATL/JFK/PHL etc.
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:59 pm

October stats have now been made available by the airport. Allowing for the loss of Thomas Cook I believe that a reduction of less than 2% over the same month last year is a pretty good return.

Image
 
jomur
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:42 pm

Jet2.com buys Thomas Cook slots at Manchester. I wonder how long before we hear of the rumoured flights to Orlando?
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:34 pm

jomur wrote:
Jet2.com buys Thomas Cook slots at Manchester. I wonder how long before we hear of the rumoured flights to Orlando?

Personally I think it may be longer than some may think. There are definitely 2 sides to this debate and my views are that they are better concentrating on what they already do - and fill the European voids left by the loss of TCX.
 
digitalcloud
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:03 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:00 am

American to operate 767 to PHL instead of 787 in S20.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-10nov19/
 
8herveg
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:21 am

digitalcloud wrote:
American to operate 767 to PHL instead of 787 in S20.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-10nov19/


Oh geez. This is where AA went wrong with the ORD flight. Chopping and changing the aircraft to older models. PHL was the A330, then B787 and now B767. Where is the consistency with new aircraft?
 
digitalcloud
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:03 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:47 am

8herveg wrote:
digitalcloud wrote:
American to operate 767 to PHL instead of 787 in S20.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-10nov19/


Oh geez. This is where AA went wrong with the ORD flight. Chopping and changing the aircraft to older models. PHL was the A330, then B787 and now B767. Where is the consistency with new aircraft?


Seems ZRH has gone from B787 to A330 as well, perhaps relocating the 787 around the network? Most likely concentrating them on DFW and ORD.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:56 pm

8herveg wrote:
digitalcloud wrote:
American to operate 767 to PHL instead of 787 in S20.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-10nov19/


Oh geez. This is where AA went wrong with the ORD flight. Chopping and changing the aircraft to older models. PHL was the A330, then B787 and now B767. Where is the consistency with new aircraft?


Not to mention the IFE in economy on the 767's being very outdated compared to 787/A330's in AA's fleet and the competition out of MAN. It's a good way of pushing passengers towards the competition.
 
jomur
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:29 pm

User001 wrote:
Quite a lot of brits do visit the clearwater/St Petes area so I'm sure TPA could do OK at say 2/3 weekly.

MAN is one of TPA's highest desired routes to Europe too.


If there was a MAN -TPA then it would probably be at the expense of one of the MAN- MCO routes as people do use MAN-MCO to go to the Bay area rather than head down to LGW.
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:02 pm

Flybe to start a daily Manchester-Stuttgart route from 29 March 2020

MAN 0730-1025 STR
STR 1100-1205 MAN

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/11 ... 78849?s=19
 
8herveg
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:19 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
Flybe to start a daily Manchester-Stuttgart route from 29 March 2020

MAN 0730-1025 STR
STR 1100-1205 MAN

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/11 ... 78849?s=19


Out of curiosity, what’s the point of Flybe launching routes now if it’s about to be taken over by Virgin? As aren’t Virgin in the process of remodelling the network, which is due to be announced any time soon?
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:25 pm

8herveg wrote:
SeanM1997 wrote:
Flybe to start a daily Manchester-Stuttgart route from 29 March 2020

MAN 0730-1025 STR
STR 1100-1205 MAN

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/11 ... 78849?s=19


Out of curiosity, what’s the point of Flybe launching routes now if it’s about to be taken over by Virgin? As aren’t Virgin in the process of remodelling the network, which is due to be announced any time soon?


It will still be part of Virgin Connect and in essence allows connections at Manchester on routes such as Stuttgart - Manchester - New York JFK. Its only under a Flybe new route as the new branding doesn't have an official launch date

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