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SueD
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:35 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:30 am

DobboDobbo wrote:
by738 wrote:
8herveg wrote:

Interesting. I wonder what the new destinations will be. I think we could see a return to SFO and also SEA, MRU, MBJ, MIA, ANU (all ex TCX destinations from MAN), DEL and BOM (filling in 9W gap) and perhaps JNB and/or CPT?

Thoughts?

But perhaps some of the problems at TCX were that some of these long hauls were profit draining loss makers. Have we any evidence to the contrary? and thus why would VS want to start or revisit said routes?


To try and give my thoughts on all the above questions.

I don’t believe there is any data in the public domain regarding the profitability (or not) of TCX’s long haul operations. It has been speculated that it was profitable on the basis that the airline was put up for sale as a profitable part of the business to raise capital (I believe this was the line widely circulated in the press around 8/9 months ago).

Either way, I don’t believe anyone can reasonably expect VS to backfill TCX’s lost capacity on a 1:1 basis - certainly not for S20. However, they have made some pretty ambitious statements as to their intentions, including the use of DL, so let’s see if they walk the walk on that.

In the immediate term, for winter 19/20, I anticipate additional capacity on MCO, JFK and the Caribbean (this has been confirmed by VS). In the slightly less short term, for summer 20, I’m also expecting a strengthening of the likes of LAX, LAS and perhaps a new route to somewhere like MIA or SFO. I’d not rule out another link to a DL hub so perhaps one of another BOS, or SEA/DTW is in play.

Thereafter it is difficult to say, but I suspect they will want to link MAN with BOM and DEL (perhaps other eastbound destinations) and a seasonal service to either JNB or CPT is intriguing.

The scope of ambition with connect airways and what they might bring for VS and their JV partners is inevitably going to play a part in what is and isn’t possible, so hopefully that will clear up shortly.



IMHO the Delta help could well be simply handing Atlanta back and the return of DL64/5: That’s a pretty easy thing to do and indeed precedent has been set for this already, when Delta operated a brief service in was it 18 months or so ago when Virgin were short of aircraft (broken Boeing/Rolls Royce issues)
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:08 am

SueD wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
by738 wrote:
But perhaps some of the problems at TCX were that some of these long hauls were profit draining loss makers. Have we any evidence to the contrary? and thus why would VS want to start or revisit said routes?


To try and give my thoughts on all the above questions.

I don’t believe there is any data in the public domain regarding the profitability (or not) of TCX’s long haul operations. It has been speculated that it was profitable on the basis that the airline was put up for sale as a profitable part of the business to raise capital (I believe this was the line widely circulated in the press around 8/9 months ago).

Either way, I don’t believe anyone can reasonably expect VS to backfill TCX’s lost capacity on a 1:1 basis - certainly not for S20. However, they have made some pretty ambitious statements as to their intentions, including the use of DL, so let’s see if they walk the walk on that.

In the immediate term, for winter 19/20, I anticipate additional capacity on MCO, JFK and the Caribbean (this has been confirmed by VS). In the slightly less short term, for summer 20, I’m also expecting a strengthening of the likes of LAX, LAS and perhaps a new route to somewhere like MIA or SFO. I’d not rule out another link to a DL hub so perhaps one of another BOS, or SEA/DTW is in play.

Thereafter it is difficult to say, but I suspect they will want to link MAN with BOM and DEL (perhaps other eastbound destinations) and a seasonal service to either JNB or CPT is intriguing.

The scope of ambition with connect airways and what they might bring for VS and their JV partners is inevitably going to play a part in what is and isn’t possible, so hopefully that will clear up shortly.



IMHO the Delta help could well be simply handing Atlanta back and the return of DL64/5: That’s a pretty easy thing to do and indeed precedent has been set for this already, when Delta operated a brief service in was it 18 months or so ago when Virgin were short of aircraft (broken Boeing/Rolls Royce issues)


I think you’re right - whether this is the only option under consideration I don’t know. There would be options on other existing routes (eg JFK) as well as new ones. It probably depends on the scale they have in mind.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1417
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:47 am

by738 wrote:
But perhaps some of the problems at TCX were that some of these long hauls were profit draining loss makers. Have we any evidence to the contrary? and thus why would VS want to start or revisit said routes?


The airline side of Thomas Cook was profitable, no?

Not going to go round in circles as there’s already multiple threads about Thomas Cook, but their problems date back to before their change of long-haul strategy.
 
Luftymatt
Posts: 544
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:27 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:37 pm

[/quote]
But perhaps some of the problems at TCX were that some of these long hauls were profit draining loss makers. Have we any evidence to the contrary? and thus why would VS want to start or revisit said routes?[/quote]

You'll have to ask VS, after all it's them that's showing interest in taking over some TCX routes and expanding out of MAN. As has been said above, the fact that they're interested in this not insignificant expansion out of MAN, shows that they are profitable routes.
chase the sun
 
by738
Posts: 3113
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:52 pm

Luftymatt wrote:
You'll have to ask VS, after all it's them that's showing interest in taking over some TCX routes and expanding out of MAN. As has been said above, the fact that they're interested in this not insignificant expansion out of MAN, shows that they are profitable routes.

"Showing interest" and true significance of any expansion remains to be seen. As was said I doubt it will be like for like TCX/VS replacement which would suggest over capacity and limits on margins
 
David_itl
Posts: 6409
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:27 pm

by738 wrote:
"Showing interest" and true significance of any expansion remains to be seen. As was said I doubt it will be like for like TCX/VS replacement which would suggest over capacity and limits on margins


So...why on earth would VS want to take over slots that they are NOT going to want use to bolster services at MAN? VS is the airline that stated an interest in taking Thomas Cook long-haul when the idea of spinning off Thomas Cook Airlines was floated but it appears the Thomas Cook board wanted an offer for the whole airline.

With no "competition", they've the ability to get LAX to 5 weekly minimum (bearing in mind that they've already stated their thoughts on the route) and JFK could finally see 1 airline offer 2 flights a day on MAN-JFK using A330s- after all, we're always told a premium paying passenger prefers frequency so this would a very good starting point to make sure that there's a lesser needs to head south. MCO would more than likely see the ability to run double daily A330 in place of up to 11 weekly 747s,. New destinations is what they've stated which may well mean this years 2 weekly TCX service to SEA become a 3 weekly MIA (only 33 years after announcing the intention of MAN-MIA routing by 1987). But then SEA is also a DL hub... given that a large portion of the SEA passengers were connecting onto AS, it's not beyond them to keep this route going as the connections would be with DL instead.
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:33 pm

The unknown factor in all of this is whether VS remain committed to build MAN into a key transfer point between India and the USA, and what scale they are hoping to achieve on “Virgin Connect”. There is also the reality that VS is part of a much bigger whole including DL/AF/KL/KE et al - TCX has none of these issues as it’s business model was different.

These factors could mean that the ceiling of what VS can achieve at MAN is much higher than TCX - and that will be fascinating to watch over the next 3-5 years...
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:10 pm

Better late than never - here is MANTP Update 109 dated 20th September courtesy as always of the MANTP Team

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Scottiedog
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:52 pm

MANTP Update #110 dated 27th September,courtesy of the MANTPTeam

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Scottiedog
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:19 pm

Manchester Statistics - August 2019

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

No new routes

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)
Amsterdam - 1,055,088 passengers

The following domestic statistics are missing from the CAA report for August.
Belfast City & London City have not reported for this month
In August 2018 these accounted for 27,904 passengers.

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics
Monthly passengers - 3,336,826 + 5.79%
Annual Total – 14,523,228 + 5.41%
Moving Annual Total - 29,402,454 + 4.99%

Monthly Movements - 20,791 + 3.07%
Annual Movements – 95,690 +2.19%
Moving Annual Movements - 203,729 + 1.44%

Manchester Airport's August statistics

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers
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Top destinations with highest percentage increase.
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Figures for the European and long-haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.
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Istanbul figures are affected by the start of the Pegasus service to Sabiha Gokcen airport which I now show separately.

Comparison of top 25 destinations - August 2009 versus August 2019
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Major changes to Domestic traffic
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CAA statistics for August are provisional.

Load factors analysis on certain routes
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Calculations are based of FlightRadar24 for days of flight operation, Planespotter.net for Seat Plans and CAA data for monthly figures.
 
sk736
Posts: 734
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:47 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:05 pm

Scottiedog wrote:
Manchester Statistics - August 2019

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

No new routes

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)
Amsterdam - 1,055,088 passengers

The following domestic statistics are missing from the CAA report for August.
Belfast City & London City have not reported for this month
In August 2018 these accounted for 27,904 passengers.

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics
Monthly passengers - 3,336,826 + 5.79%
Annual Total – 14,523,228 + 5.41%
Moving Annual Total - 29,402,454 + 4.99%

Monthly Movements - 20,791 + 3.07%
Annual Movements – 95,690 +2.19%
Moving Annual Movements - 203,729 + 1.44%

Manchester Airport's August statistics

Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers
Image

Top destinations with highest percentage increase.
Image

Figures for the European and long-haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.
Image
Istanbul figures are affected by the start of the Pegasus service to Sabiha Gokcen airport which I now show separately.

Comparison of top 25 destinations - August 2009 versus August 2019
Image

Major changes to Domestic traffic
Image
CAA statistics for August are provisional.

Load factors analysis on certain routes
Image
Calculations are based of FlightRadar24 for days of flight operation, Planespotter.net for Seat Plans and CAA data for monthly figures.

Are there scheduled services from MAN to Cardiff and Gatwick?
 
User001
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:04 am

Biman Bangladesh have confirmed the return to Manchester, with 3 weekly flights from Jan 4th. Flights on Tue, Sat and Sun. Confirmed and bookable on their website.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:13 am

User001 wrote:
Biman Bangladesh have confirmed the return to Manchester, with 3 weekly flights from Jan 4th. Flights on Tue, Sat and Sun. Confirmed and bookable on their website.


Interesting, good to see. Can someone remind me what aircraft they flew to MAN last time around? Did they operate the DC-10?
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
gkirk
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:16 am

777-300ER last time. Lets see how long it lasts this time...
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1417
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:40 am

Scottiedog wrote:
Manchester Statistics - August 2019


Thanks as always for the analysis. It will be interesting to see the figures for Q4 2019 once they're published as they will show up the loss of capacity provided by Thomas Cook.
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:49 pm

sk736 wrote:
Are there scheduled services from MAN to Cardiff and Gatwick?


Not any longer I'm afraid.
 
MANMatthew
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:24 pm

gkirk wrote:
777-300ER last time. Lets see how long it lasts this time...


When did they last fly to MAN?
 
by738
Posts: 3113
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:33 pm

gkirk wrote:
777-300ER last time. Lets see how long it lasts this time...

I don't think you're allowed to suggest it won't be a long term money spinner...
 
sk736
Posts: 734
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:47 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:14 pm

Scottiedog wrote:
sk736 wrote:
Are there scheduled services from MAN to Cardiff and Gatwick?


Not any longer I'm afraid.

So why are passenger figures included in the stats?
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2576
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:33 pm

sk736 wrote:
Scottiedog wrote:
sk736 wrote:
Are there scheduled services from MAN to Cardiff and Gatwick?


Not any longer I'm afraid.

So why are passenger figures included in the stats?


CAA figures don’t care if scheduled or chartered, if it moved people it’s included in their total counts.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
David_itl
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:53 pm

The formal Biman reveal in the press
https://aboutmanchester.co.uk/biman-bangladesh-airlines-return-to-manchester-airport-from-new-year/

Market size seems reasonable and with more efficient aircraft at hand, may be it will be sustainable this time

"It is a boost to the many Bangladeshi communities within Manchester Airport’s catchment, as well as being tipped to deliver wide ranging trade and tourism benefits. There are more than 55,000 people a year who currently travel from Manchester Airport’s catchment to Dhaka and Syhlet, with around 600,000 people travelling to destinations in Biman’s onward network.

Of even more interest...MAN's Aviation Director has come out with this!

"Biman’s new service is the first of a few new airlines to be announced at Manchester airport in the coming days / weeks... Watch this space"

Let the guessing game begin. my list from most likely to least likely
Juneyao Airlines to Shanghai
Air Antwerp to Antwerp
Lot to Warsaw
Air Serbia to Belgrade
SpiceJet to Mumbai
Korean to Seoul

https://twitter.com/jjfcarr/status/1181199364934557696
 
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seemyseems
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:21 pm

David_itl wrote:
The formal Biman reveal in the press
https://aboutmanchester.co.uk/biman-bangladesh-airlines-return-to-manchester-airport-from-new-year/

Market size seems reasonable and with more efficient aircraft at hand, may be it will be sustainable this time

"It is a boost to the many Bangladeshi communities within Manchester Airport’s catchment, as well as being tipped to deliver wide ranging trade and tourism benefits. There are more than 55,000 people a year who currently travel from Manchester Airport’s catchment to Dhaka and Syhlet, with around 600,000 people travelling to destinations in Biman’s onward network.

Of even more interest...MAN's Aviation Director has come out with this!

"Biman’s new service is the first of a few new airlines to be announced at Manchester airport in the coming days / weeks... Watch this space"

Let the guessing game begin. my list from most likely to least likely
Juneyao Airlines to Shanghai
Air Antwerp to Antwerp
Lot to Warsaw
Air Serbia to Belgrade
SpiceJet to Mumbai
Korean to Seoul

https://twitter.com/jjfcarr/status/1181199364934557696


Very interesting times! I would love to see Korean Air at MAN
seemyseems in ATL
 
AI
Posts: 292
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:06 pm

David_itl wrote:
The formal Biman reveal in the press
https://aboutmanchester.co.uk/biman-bangladesh-airlines-return-to-manchester-airport-from-new-year/

Market size seems reasonable and with more efficient aircraft at hand, may be it will be sustainable this time

"It is a boost to the many Bangladeshi communities within Manchester Airport’s catchment, as well as being tipped to deliver wide ranging trade and tourism benefits. There are more than 55,000 people a year who currently travel from Manchester Airport’s catchment to Dhaka and Syhlet, with around 600,000 people travelling to destinations in Biman’s onward network.

Of even more interest...MAN's Aviation Director has come out with this!

"Biman’s new service is the first of a few new airlines to be announced at Manchester airport in the coming days / weeks... Watch this space"

Let the guessing game begin. my list from most likely to least likely
Juneyao Airlines to Shanghai
Air Antwerp to Antwerp
Lot to Warsaw
Air Serbia to Belgrade
SpiceJet to Mumbai
Korean to Seoul

https://twitter.com/jjfcarr/status/1181199364934557696


Direct flight to BOM would definitely be great.

I would prefer VS to start that rather than SG.
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 289
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:53 pm

MANTP Update #111 dated 7th October 2019 courtesy of MANTP Team to whom full credit is given

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David_itl
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:29 am

Air Baltic to restart Riga. 4 weekly from March so rhats rhe 2nd reveal. Wonder whats next? https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/1181841974631862272?s=19
 
User001
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:33 am

https://airportrumours.blogspot.com/201 ... -riga.html

Full times and flight numbers for the above new route.
 
8herveg
Posts: 1488
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:37 am

Great news re. Air Baltic. MAN are doing well at adding legacy carriers at the moment and hopefully more to come too. If you breakdown the list of carriers into alliance, non-aligned, regional, low-cost/charter, they really do have it pretty well covered!

Oneworld/IAG:

Aer Lingus
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Finnair
Iberia Express
Qatar Airways
Royal Air Maroc
Vueling

SkyTeam/DL/VS JV:

Air France
Delta Air Lines
KLM
Saudia
Virgin Atlantic

Star Alliance:

Aegean Airlines
Air Canada Rouge
Austrian Airlines
Brussels Airlines
Ethiopian Airlines
Eurowings
Lufthansa
Scandinavian Airlines
Singapore Airlines
Swiss International Air Lines
TAP Air Portugal
Turkish Airlines
United Airlines

Non-aligned:

Air Baltic
Air Malta
Air Transat
Belavia
Biman Bangladesh Airlines
El Al
Emirates
Etihad Airways
Hainan Airlines
Icelandair
Iraqi Airways
Oman Air
Pakistan International Airlines

Regional:

Aurigny
Flybe (soon to be 'Virgin Connect' or similar)
Loganair

Low-cost/charter:

Air Arabia Maroc
EasyJet
Jet2.com
Norwegian Air Shuttle
Pegasus Airlines
Ryanair
TUI Airways

Miscellaneous (although I'm guessing these would be charter?):

Air Europa
BH Air
Enter Air
FlyEgypt
Titan Airways

I would love to see the following be added. Anyone think any of these could be a possibility?

Japan Airlines
Malaysia Airlines
Royal Jordanian
SriLankan Airlines

Aeroflot Russian
Alitalia
China Eastern Airlines
Kenya Airways
Korean Air

Air China
Air India
Croatia Airlines
EgyptAir
LOT Polish Airlines
Thai Airways

Air Serbia
Bulgaria Air
Kuwait Airways
 
DobboDobbo
Topic Author
Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:32 am

India (BOM and DEL) will invariably be one of MAN’s key strategic gaps to try and fill, so I think that is likely to be plugged sooner rather than later.

It would be better as part of the VS network, which would in turn support its TATL ambitions. However, interestingly, there is a delegation from the Manchester-India partnership in India at the moment who were welcomed by Indi-Go. This might indicate what is coming round the hill.

Some of the other strategic long haul gaps will include the obvious one of BKK (the TG president was at MAN a few weeks ago and it looks like whatever he was saying is embargoed) together with PVG (Juneyo) and perhaps TYO (where talks with JL and NH are at an early stage).

I suspect the immediate priority will be trying to fill TCX capacity. I’ll leave short haul to one side for now, but that really means VS and it means JFK, MCO, LAS, LAX and SFO. MAN will want to add frequencies, and turn those which are seasonal into year round operations ASAP.
 
A321200
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:41 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:51 pm

This might have been mentioned before, but now that the T2 extension is being finished within 12 months or so, attention turns to the refurbishment phase of the existing T2 building and the construction of another pier or two.

I understand that the original idea of bashing it down and rebuilding it has switched to a refurb but can anyone confirm that it will infact 'look' like the building that's been constructed next to it? i.e. it'll all look brand new to the untrained eye. Surely the drab discoloured concrete is going...

Also, if the VS/Connect idea is designed to, well, connect, then are there any plans to have a security area in one finger to save connectors having to traipse back through into the main terminal (to queue and get yelled at) and back out again, or are they required to 'relax and shop' first? Will the next pier have steps in the gate nodes or escalators like posh airports? Will they turn the a/c on inside the nice glass (greenhouse-like) airbridges, or leave them switched off to save money like the existing ones?

All a bit tongue-in-cheek, I know, but I suspect there's been a bit of cost-cutting going on, MAG is owned by the council after-all! Just wondering how much clout airlines have in the design of such a building, I know BA stuck their oar in rather vigorously when it came to T5... just wondering :)

On a more serious note though, it's great to see MAN transform, my only proper winge is will someone PLEASE fix the escalators/moving walkways, especially the ones in the railway station that have been knackered for months, it's very embarrassing for our city - it's the first and last thing our visitors experience and there's no point getting into any of the lifts because they all travel at such a glacial pace, you'll miss your train!
 
LS83
Posts: 11
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:54 pm

A321200 wrote:
This might have been mentioned before, but now that the T2 extension is being finished within 12 months or so, attention turns to the refurbishment phase of the existing T2 building and the construction of another pier or two.

I understand that the original idea of bashing it down and rebuilding it has switched to a refurb but can anyone confirm that it will infact 'look' like the building that's been constructed next to it? i.e. it'll all look brand new to the untrained eye. Surely the drab discoloured concrete is going...

Also, if the VS/Connect idea is designed to, well, connect, then are there any plans to have a security area in one finger to save connectors having to traipse back through into the main terminal (to queue and get yelled at) and back out again, or are they required to 'relax and shop' first? Will the next pier have steps in the gate nodes or escalators like posh airports? Will they turn the a/c on inside the nice glass (greenhouse-like) airbridges, or leave them switched off to save money like the existing ones?

All a bit tongue-in-cheek, I know, but I suspect there's been a bit of cost-cutting going on, MAG is owned by the council after-all! Just wondering how much clout airlines have in the design of such a building, I know BA stuck their oar in rather vigorously when it came to T5... just wondering :)

On a more serious note though, it's great to see MAN transform, my only proper winge is will someone PLEASE fix the escalators/moving walkways, especially the ones in the railway station that have been knackered for months, it's very embarrassing for our city - it's the first and last thing our visitors experience and there's no point getting into any of the lifts because they all travel at such a glacial pace, you'll miss your train!


It was never an intention to “bash” the current T2 down anyway. It was always the plan to refurbish the current T2 once the extension opens in summer 2020. Yes, it’s not the best looking terminal, however, it’s the improvements that will be inside what will count!
No escalators planned as far as I am aware, there are lifts available in pier 1 now so I expect the same with piers 2 & 3. Not a big deal really.
I would expect heating to be turned on now as were in October, certainly not a/c! However, wouldn’t hold my breath given MAG are big cost cutters!

T5 @LHR is a completely different ball game to MAN, no need to further discuss this and make unnecessary comparisons.
MAG were and still do consult with most of the major airlines using the airport on the works in progress and plans for the future, so I’m sure many of the airlines with based aircraft had a say.

And yes, walkways, escalates etc, major problem for years! Agree, complete embarrassment to our great city! No further comment on that!
But exciting to see the airport expand and hopefully all for the better!
 
Mullion
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:29 pm

Am I reading your post correctly as no part of T2 was to be pulled down just renovated, T1 maybe pulled down at a later date
 
A321200
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:41 am

Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:28 am

Apologies, I didn’t realise the refurb rather than rebuild was the idea from the very beginning. However, if they leave it as it is it won’t look like a completely finished job. I agree that what’s inside counts more mind you.

Like I said, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek and facetious, I admit, and there’s bound to be niggles with any large construction project but this is a once in a generation chance to create an airport that we can all be proud of.

Fingers crossed it will be!

Out of interest, why does it take so long to repair the escalators? Just doing that and perhaps repairing the roof so they can remove all of the plastic buckets goes a long way to making the whole experience a lot more pleasant.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:28 am

A321200 wrote:
All a bit tongue-in-cheek, I know, but I suspect there's been a bit of cost-cutting going on, MAG is owned by the council after-all! Just wondering how much clout airlines have in the design of such a building, I know BA stuck their oar in rather vigorously when it came to T5... just wondering :)


Slight pedantry: MAG isn't owned by any one council. ;) Although its biggest shareholder is indeed Manchester City Council, an investment house equally owns another share (both 35.5%) with the remaining 9 councils of Greater Manchester (Bolton, Bury, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford and Wigan) collectively owning the remaining 29%.

As for BA, haven't we been here before where part of T3 was expanded over 20 years ago for them only for them to gradually reduce their presence in the subsequent years?

LS83 wrote:
It was never an intention to “bash” the current T2 down anyway. It was always the plan to refurbish the current T2 once the extension opens in summer 2020. Yes, it’s not the best looking terminal, however, it’s the improvements that will be inside what will count!


Apart from the cramped security area after they relocated it to directly above the check-in desks some years ago (and of course the well-known design flaw with gate spacing of the original building), T2 is currently the best terminal for me from the passenger's perspective, though I've noted the mixed reviews of the new pier since that opened. T3's layout is completely illogical after the works done years ago to move their security area to what was part of the T1 departures food court and IMO is far too small to handle the number of passengers that use it since Ryanair moved in. As for T1, I won't be crying when that closes and is demolished. In hindsight, it was a mistake to remove the source of natural light from the former departures landside shopping area when they redeveloped it and the arrivals hall is very cramped, same with departures given the amount of passengers that use it and the amount of shops that are crammed in. That said, I'm passing through T1 on Sunday, so it'll be interesting to see if the departures experience is a bit more bearable due to less flights currently using the terminal after Thomas Cook's sad demise.
 
APYu
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:39 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
by738 wrote:
But perhaps some of the problems at TCX were that some of these long hauls were profit draining loss makers. Have we any evidence to the contrary? and thus why would VS want to start or revisit said routes?


The airline side of Thomas Cook was profitable, no?
.

The fact that none of the offers received to buy it were deemed acceptable suggest it wasn't as profitable as many think.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
User001
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:04 am

APYu wrote:
The fact that none of the offers received to buy it were deemed acceptable suggest it wasn't as profitable as many think.


That can’t be used as a measure at all. For example, It’s no different to buying a house. People will put in offers well below the going rate to try their luck and it will be no different in this scenario. in the business world, you will want to maximise your potential so if a business is worth say £100,000, you won’t offer the full £100,000 as you will want to increase your margins and potential, you may offer just £80,000 and that offer won’t be accepted. Given more time, better offers may have been forthcoming. It’s very very rare for the first offer to be accepted.

Then let’s not forget the airline was removed from sale as the company FOSUN offered to take shares in the whole of Thomas Cook. Granted, it didn’t work out as the banks asked form more money to protect themselves, but, it shows why the above quote cannot be taken at face value whatsoever.
 
LS83
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:39 am

A321200 wrote:
Apologies, I didn’t realise the refurb rather than rebuild was the idea from the very beginning. However, if they leave it as it is it won’t look like a completely finished job. I agree that what’s inside counts more mind you.

Like I said, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek and facetious, I admit, and there’s bound to be niggles with any large construction project but this is a once in a generation chance to create an airport that we can all be proud of.

Fingers crossed it will be!

Out of interest, why does it take so long to repair the escalators? Just doing that and perhaps repairing the roof so they can remove all of the plastic buckets goes a long way to making the whole experience a lot more pleasant.


Ref the escalator issues, apparently the parts are ordered from China (I think) and the lead time is long. I suppose it depends on availability of the contractors too, although no completely sure. I am informed there is a plan to bulk purchase a load of new parts and store them close to site...but this remains to be seen...
 
jomur
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:49 am

DobboDobbo wrote:
I suspect the immediate priority will be trying to fill TCX capacity. I’ll leave short haul to one side for now, but that really means VS and it means JFK, MCO, LAS, LAX and SFO. MAN will want to add frequencies, and turn those which are seasonal into year round operations ASAP.


Maybe someone else on one of those routes........ nothing confirmed yet though so may not happen in the short term. (and no I'm not going to say who it is...)
 
jubaexpress
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:16 am

jomur wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
I suspect the immediate priority will be trying to fill TCX capacity. I’ll leave short haul to one side for now, but that really means VS and it means JFK, MCO, LAS, LAX and SFO. MAN will want to add frequencies, and turn those which are seasonal into year round operations ASAP.

(and no I'm not going to say who it is...)


Then this is an approximately pointless post.
 
Onlyturnright
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:14 am

APYu wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
by738 wrote:
But perhaps some of the problems at TCX were that some of these long hauls were profit draining loss makers. Have we any evidence to the contrary? and thus why would VS want to start or revisit said routes?


The airline side of Thomas Cook was profitable, no?
.

The fact that none of the offers received to buy it were deemed acceptable suggest it wasn't as profitable as many think.


The UK side of the airline was very profitable, believe me. It makes it even more ironic that that part of the business is the only one no longer operating, given the rescue of the high street stores by Hays Travel
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:07 am

jomur wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
I suspect the immediate priority will be trying to fill TCX capacity. I’ll leave short haul to one side for now, but that really means VS and it means JFK, MCO, LAS, LAX and SFO. MAN will want to add frequencies, and turn those which are seasonal into year round operations ASAP.


Maybe someone else on one of those routes........ nothing confirmed yet though so may not happen in the short term. (and no I'm not going to say who it is...)


I have heard rumblings. Would be interesting to compare notes. I feel VS (perhaps initially via DL metal) are the most likely. I wonder what the timescales of this might be...
 
Scottiedog
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:34 am

September passenger statistics

Image

The closure of Thomas Cook has started to have an effect and unfortunately the magic 30 million passenger number may now not be reached until June 2020.
 
Scottiedog
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:47 pm

MANTP Update #112 dated 12th October 2019 courtesy of the MANTP team to whom full credit is given:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
 
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seemyseems
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:29 pm

Does anyone have any updates on the Aviator situation?
seemyseems in ATL
 
Onlyturnright
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:37 am

seemyseems wrote:
Does anyone have any updates on the Aviator situation?


I believe they are the close the station around the 23rd or so since the demise of MT.
 
phollingsworth
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:01 am

Onlyturnright wrote:
APYu wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:

The airline side of Thomas Cook was profitable, no?
.

The fact that none of the offers received to buy it were deemed acceptable suggest it wasn't as profitable as many think.


The UK side of the airline was very profitable, believe me. It makes it even more ironic that that part of the business is the only one no longer operating, given the rescue of the high street stores by Hays Travel


No matter how profitable the UK airline was it wasn't profitable enough to service the overall debt of the company. The fact is TC needed to reduce their debt burden and were unable to do so. The debt for equity swap that was planned turned out to be insufficient and/or too late. TC tried to sell off the portions of the business that were net cash-flow positive (or could be made such in relatively short order), to pay off some of their debt. They did not receive any "acceptable offers". This could mean many things including:
    Due diligence suggested TC's view of future profit was overly optimistic
    Limitations/obligations imposed by TC reduced future profitability
    Other airlines viewed the collapse of TCX as potentially beneficial and so reduced their offers accordingly, based on risk aversion
    Quite a few other factors

In the end we cannot say for sure if TC had accepted one or more of the offers that they would still be around, but by not accepting them, in hindsight, they guaranteed they would be.
 
Onlyturnright
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:34 am

Onlyturnright wrote:
seemyseems wrote:
Does anyone have any updates on the Aviator situation?


I believe they are to close the station around the 23rd or so since the demise of MT.
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 289
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:01 pm

Onlyturnright wrote:
Onlyturnright wrote:
seemyseems wrote:
Does anyone have any updates on the Aviator situation?


I believe they are to close the station around the 23rd or so since the demise of MT.


That's the second time you have posted this with an hour of each other..

Yes,you are correct. As far as I'm aware they are being wound-down and hopefully other handling agents will take on their staff. Nobody likes redundancies.
 
Onlyturnright
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:45 pm

My apologies. It was a mistake and I had tried to ask for it to be deleted.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:11 pm

Virgin Atlantic plans to turn MAN into a network hub.

Article and link below:

———————————————


Virgin Atlantic plans to make Manchester airport a network hub for the airline, with more long-haul routes to be introduced to link to recently-acquired regional capacity.
The airline’s European vice president, commercial Juha Jarvinen, said Manchester is “our second home” and the “Thomas Cook’s demise gives us an opportunity”.

The airline recently announced the new name – Virgin Connect – of regional carrier Flybe, which it led a consortium to acquire earlier this year. Flybe has more than 300 slots at Manchester flying on regional and domestic routes.

On the airline’s flight celebrating its new direct route from Heathrow to Tel Aviv, Jarvinen told Travel Weekly: “We are certainly finalising our Thomas Cook actions and we hope to be able to further strengthen our offering for next year [from Manchester].

“We will be offering more flights to certain destinations for next winter and we are definitely exploring new destinations from Manchester.

“That was originally our plan but Thomas Cook’s demise gives us an opportunity. Manchester is definitely our second home and is a region that is underserved both in business and leisure [routes]. We are hoping to further develop Manchester connectivity and are finalising next summer’s flights.

“By growing Manchester connectivity, we can also grow our long-haul offering there. We believe we can build a network hub in Manchester that nobody has done before. When we welcome Flybe into the Virgin family [as Virgin Connect next year] it becomes easier.”

At the press conference in Tel Aviv, chief executive Shai Weiss said: “There’s more to come. Watch our space in terms of what we will announce following the demise of iconic British brand Thomas Cook.”
The direct Manchester-Los Angles route has seen an 85% load factor, higher than Virgin’s average of around 80%, and Jarvinen said the route had “increased the number of movie producers flying to Manchester”.
Connectivity is the overall message from Virgin, which as well as the Flybe deal has also signed a joint ventures with KLM-Air France and China Eastern, as well as a codeshare agreement with Brazilian carrier Gol to connect to Virgin’s new Heathrow Sao Paulo route starting next spring.

“Up until now, Virgin Atlantic has been serving London and Manchester to the world,” Jarvinen told Travel Weekly. “In order to diversify the offering, we need to have the regional connectivity as well. Customers don’t just want to fly out of London and Manchester. We should be offering European short-haul and domestic as well.”

The airline also wants to boost its connectivity out of Heathrow, where Flybe only has 12 slots. Jarvinen said this was more difficult because of the allocation of slots which Virgin Atlantic has for a long time claimed has been unfairly weighted towards its rival British Airways.

Jarvinen reiterated chief executive Shai Weiss’ calls for Heathrow to allocate more slots to BA’s competitors when Heathrow’s third runway is built.

“The problem with Heathrow is that it is full,” he said. “So we have been unable to grow.
“We believe the current global allocation method is not fair for the consumers. If we follow that then BA will get around 60% of the new slots [at runway three] which is not in the interests of the consumer.”

“This is the largest airport infrastructure project in Europe and therefore this method should change because this is a traumatic change in capacity.”

The new Tel Aviv route has “exceeded expectations”, added Jarvinen – who said its load factor was around 90%. He said the split of passengers was roughly three ways between Britons, Americans and Israelis, with many opting to connect between the US and Tel Aviv via London.

“We believe we have the range of products to give the route the right mix.”

http://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/3475 ... k-collapse
 
8herveg
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:14 am

Good article. What destinations to people expect to see/increased from MAN?

ANU? The return of CUN? MIA, SEA, the return of SFO?

BOM and DEL?

CPT, JNB?

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