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mrbonfire
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:56 pm

Whilst appreciating your comment, this is a thread about Manchester Airport and I believe that the changes that are occuring as a result of the MANTP project are worthwhile recording.

As you say, you can always ignore my posts.

If the moderators think that too much data is being used then I am sure that they will let me know - although I understand that you may be referring to the amount of data that you need to use when accessing the thread?


I think it's better to summarise the slides and link to start a discussion.

Also by inserting the slides, they won't be accessible to users of assistive technologies and could unintentionally exclude some users.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 387
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:22 pm

klm617 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
klm617 wrote:
A Delta 757 can also reach Detroit with ease from Manchester and while DTW may not be a major US gateway it is a major international hub for Delta.

But Manchester already has dual-aisle service to a number of airports with much better connections than Detroit. For instance if you want to go to Latin America you are better off taking a Virgin Atlantic to Atlanta and connecting there.

The newer long range single-aisle jets like the A321LR and A321XLR might permit service from Manchester to a USA destination that is of more interest as a final destination, but does not have enough traffic to support a dual-aisle jet. Detroit is one of the most troubled large cities in the USA.

An A321XLR has a nominal range of 4700 nautical miles, although practical ranges will be less than that.

Nautical Miles from MAN to airports without existing service
IAD 3098 (Washington DC)
DTW 3166 (Detroit)
ORD 3325 (Chicago)
FLL 3745 (Fort Lauderdale)
MIA 3763 (Miami)
DFW 4019 (Dallas)
SEA 4041 (Seattle)
SFO 4537
LAX 4617
HNL OVER 6000 nm

US airports by total international traffic to all destinations - existing service to/from Manchester
JFK 33,090,297 Virgin Atlantic
LAX 25,703,543 Virgin Atlantic: Seasonal
MIA 20,262,416
SFO 13,838,457
EWR 13,586,434 United
ORD 13,317,224
ATL 12,226,580 Virgin Atlantic
IAH 10,350,838 Singapore
FLL 8,308,311
DFW 8,281,727
IAD 7,722,414
BOS 7,087,235 Delta (begins 21 May 2020)
MCO 6,202,505 Virgin Atlantic
HNL 5,322,999
SEA 5,188,366
DTW 3,676,969 Delta First Choice for new service to Manchester?
PHL 3,675,637 American
LAS 3,589,934 Virgin Atlantic: Seasonal

Miami is such a huge USA gateway, obviously because of Latin American flights, but it has decent nonstops to Europe as well
Aer Lingus Dublin
Aeroflot Moscow–Sheremetyevo
Air Europa Madrid
Air France Paris–Charles de Gaulle
Air Italy Milan–Malpensa
Alitalia Rome–Fiumicino
British Airways London–Heathrow
Corsair International Paris–Orly
El Al Tel Aviv
Eurowings Düsseldorf
Finnair Seasonal: Helsinki
Iberia Madrid
KLM Seasonal: Amsterdam
LOT Polish Airlines Warsaw–Chopin
Lufthansa Frankfurt Seasonal: Munich
Norwegian Air UK London–Gatwick
Royal Air Maroc Casablanca
Scandinavian Airlines Seasonal: Copenhagen, Oslo–Gardermoen, Stockholm–Arlanda
Swiss International Air Lines Zurich
TAP Air Portugal Lisbon
TUI fly Netherlands Amsterdam
Turkish Airlines Istanbul
Virgin Atlantic London–Heathrow


Detroit is far soupier for connections to the Western part of the USA than any other Delta hub. Also Detroit and Southern Eastern Michigan is not in a troubled state as people here on a.net would have you believe. Crime wise Chicago is far worse in that department. South Eastern Michigan is on the rise and has some of the wealthiest Americans living there.

Soup has never been one of my considerations when picking a transfer point, but if we are going down that road, I had a decent salmon chowder in SEA once.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:36 pm

Ishrion wrote:
klm617 wrote:
But with that set up MAN customers have no easy access to the western part of the USA. For instance if I'm flying from OMA, IND, PDX, DEN, DSM or MCI my only option is an out of the way connection in ATL or a double connect. DTW would fill that void nicely.


MAN-ATL-PDX: 6,271 mi
MAN-DTW-PDX: 5,596 mi

MAN-ATL-DEN: 5,298 mi
MAN-DTW-DEN: 4,766 mi

MAN-ATL-MCI: 4,791 mi
MAN-DTW-MCI: 4,272 mi

MAN-BOS-IND: 3,972 mi
MAN-DTW-IND: 3,874 mi


Even if it is only an hour in flight time, klm617, is making a good case for Delta to put one of its 127 Boeing 757s, or 77 Boeing 767s on the route. If not the older Boeing jets, one of the A321neos might fit the bill.

But there are thre other Delta hubs that are theoretically all within range of an A321XLR (4700nm)
MAN DTW - 3,166 nm
MAN MSP - 3,372 nm
MAN SEA - 4,041 nm
MAN SLC - 4,105 nm
I should think any of the three would be more desirable as a final destination, and not just to make connections.

Manchester is one of the top 10 European destinations for Transatlantic flights from the USA for anyone who thinks the airport is very small.

Ishrion wrote:
The differences here aren't as drastic as you'd think. Sure, it'll save travelers some time, but this is how Delta fuels the largest airline hub in the world.

At any given time Delta is flying over 50% of their domestic seats in an out of Atlanta airport. Delta averages roughly 11 million seats per month on domestic flights and over 5.5 million are flying in or out of ATL. United, American, and Southwest don't come close to that level of reliance on their primary airport (Chicago ORD, Dallas Fort Worth, and Chicago Midway). As Delta is the most profitable airline in the USA, I think the concentration in ATL is a big part of their financial success. With so many flights converging on a single airport they really don't have to struggle to schedule reasonable connections.

The average age of the fleet in years, does not seem to have any correlation to profitability. American Airlines made a concentrated effort this past decade to have the youngest fleet of the major USA airlines, but is producing the worst financial results of the four (by far). The average age of the fleet for Nov 2019 is:
15.64 United
15.12 Delta
11.72 Southwest
10.95 American

Delta had one of the oldest fleets in the world for many years, but recently they have been on an Airbus buying spree which pushed them ahead of United this year.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:08 pm

Ishrion wrote:
And I mean, sure, Detroit is the largest SkyTeam hub without MAN service, though it seems like VS/DL prefer to funnel passengers through JFK/ATL


That statement is true if you consider the Asian and European connections that DTW has on Delta and partners. But since Manchester passengers are not likely to fly to the USA for connections to Asia, it is probably an irrelevant metric.

This list of 30 airports shows the top 5 for each of the 6 largest USA mainline airlines. The count is million of domestic passengers leaving on domestic routes in 2018 for the particular airline

By this metric, MSP is a better transfer point than DTW, and it is 528 miles further to the west.

33.23 Atlanta, GA Delta ------------------------------------------
19.58 Dallas/Fort Worth, TX American
12.45 Charlotte, NC American
10.54 Chicago, IL United === ORD
9.86 Chicago, IL Southwest === MDW
9.13 Denver, CO United
9.05 Denver, CO Southwest
8.96 Seattle, WA Alaska
8.94 Minneapolis, MN Delta ------------------------------------------
8.78 Las Vegas, NV Southwest
8.72 San Francisco, CA United
8.66 Chicago, IL American
8.59 Baltimore, MD Southwest
8.47 Houston, TX United
8.08 Newark, NJ United
7.63 Phoenix, AZ American
7.50 Phoenix, AZ Southwest
7.30 Detroit, MI Delta ------------------------------------------
7.28 New York, NY Delta ------------------------------------------
7.27 Miami, FL American
6.00 Salt Lake City, UT Delta ------------------------------------------
5.80 New York, NY JetBlue
5.26 Boston, MA JetBlue
3.04 Fort Lauderdale, FL JetBlue
2.53 San Francisco, CA Alaska
2.53 Portland, OR Alaska
2.46 Orlando, FL JetBlue
2.42 Los Angeles, CA Alaska
1.70 Anchorage, AK Alaska
1.38 Long Beach, CA JetBlue
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:02 pm

Biman are to use the B787-9 on the new route to MAN. Per @airportnewsMAN they are also seeking to serve JFK and YYZ via MAN.

https://www.biman-airlines.com/about/ne ... 8c8e5b82a3
 
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klm617
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:12 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
And I mean, sure, Detroit is the largest SkyTeam hub without MAN service, though it seems like VS/DL prefer to funnel passengers through JFK/ATL


That statement is true if you consider the Asian and European connections that DTW has on Delta and partners. But since Manchester passengers are not likely to fly to the USA for connections to Asia, it is probably an irrelevant metric.

This list of 30 airports shows the top 5 for each of the 6 largest USA mainline airlines. The count is million of domestic passengers leaving on domestic routes in 2018 for the particular airline

By this metric, MSP is a better transfer point than DTW, and it is 528 miles further to the west.

33.23 Atlanta, GA Delta ------------------------------------------
19.58 Dallas/Fort Worth, TX American
12.45 Charlotte, NC American
10.54 Chicago, IL United === ORD
9.86 Chicago, IL Southwest === MDW
9.13 Denver, CO United
9.05 Denver, CO Southwest
8.96 Seattle, WA Alaska
8.94 Minneapolis, MN Delta ------------------------------------------
8.78 Las Vegas, NV Southwest
8.72 San Francisco, CA United
8.66 Chicago, IL American
8.59 Baltimore, MD Southwest
8.47 Houston, TX United
8.08 Newark, NJ United
7.63 Phoenix, AZ American
7.50 Phoenix, AZ Southwest
7.30 Detroit, MI Delta ------------------------------------------
7.28 New York, NY Delta ------------------------------------------
7.27 Miami, FL American
6.00 Salt Lake City, UT Delta ------------------------------------------
5.80 New York, NY JetBlue
5.26 Boston, MA JetBlue
3.04 Fort Lauderdale, FL JetBlue
2.53 San Francisco, CA Alaska
2.53 Portland, OR Alaska
2.46 Orlando, FL JetBlue
2.42 Los Angeles, CA Alaska
1.70 Anchorage, AK Alaska
1.38 Long Beach, CA JetBlue



The problem with making MSP the transfer point is that you make all the connections from PIT to CHI and in between pretty much out of the way. Having DTW be the transfer point gives you everything MSP does plus everything eastward to PIT.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:07 pm

klm617 wrote:
The problem with making MSP the transfer point is that you make all the connections from PIT to CHI and in between pretty much out of the way. Having DTW be the transfer point gives you everything MSP does plus everything eastward to PIT.


I did ask the question, and you have made your argument. It just surprised me that you would pick Detroit over one of our more attractive cities.

Air Transat is flying an A321neo from Montréal to Nice (3,818 miles) so it should be easily possible to fly one from MAN-DTW (3,643 miles)

MAN-ATL-SFO =4,099 mi + 2,139 mi = 6,237 mi
MAN-DTW-SFO =3,643 mi + 2,079 mi = 5,722 mi
MAN- SEA-SFO =4,651 mi + 679 mi = 5,329 mi

Current nonstop routes from MAN to Northern America
American Airlines Philadelphia
United Airlines Newark
Delta Air Lines Seasonal: Boston (begins 21 May 2020)
Virgin Atlantic Atlanta, New York–JFK, Orlando Seasonal: Las Vegas, Los Angeles
Singapore Airlines Houston–Intercontinental
Air Transat Toronto–Pearson Seasonal: Vancouver
Air Canada Rouge Seasonal: Toronto–Pearson
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:33 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
klm617 wrote:
The problem with making MSP the transfer point is that you make all the connections from PIT to CHI and in between pretty much out of the way. Having DTW be the transfer point gives you everything MSP does plus everything eastward to PIT.


I did ask the question, and you have made your argument. It just surprised me that you would pick Detroit over one of our more attractive cities.

Air Transat is flying an A321neo from Montréal to Nice (3,818 miles) so it should be easily possible to fly one from MAN-DTW (3,643 miles)

MAN-ATL-SFO =4,099 mi + 2,139 mi = 6,237 mi
MAN-DTW-SFO =3,643 mi + 2,079 mi = 5,722 mi
MAN- SEA-SFO =4,651 mi + 679 mi = 5,329 mi

Current nonstop routes from MAN to Northern America
American Airlines Philadelphia
United Airlines Newark
Delta Air Lines Seasonal: Boston (begins 21 May 2020)
Virgin Atlantic Atlanta, New York–JFK, Orlando Seasonal: Las Vegas, Los Angeles
Singapore Airlines Houston–Intercontinental
Air Transat Toronto–Pearson Seasonal: Vancouver
Air Canada Rouge Seasonal: Toronto–Pearson


One question I have: if DTW is positioned as a hub for DL in the Midwest, why would an A321NEO be appropriate for DTW-MAN?

I take it that in broad terms something is better than nothing, but a long haul route into a hub should (IMO and FWIW) be flown on a widebody aircraft.

My working assumption is that VS will add more frequencies to LAS and LAX and add SFO (possibly SEA) in the next 2/3 years - and this *might* bypass the mid west (paradoxically assisting the case for a smaller aircraft MAN-DTW).
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:34 pm

klm617 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
And I mean, sure, Detroit is the largest SkyTeam hub without MAN service, though it seems like VS/DL prefer to funnel passengers through JFK/ATL


That statement is true if you consider the Asian and European connections that DTW has on Delta and partners. But since Manchester passengers are not likely to fly to the USA for connections to Asia, it is probably an irrelevant metric.

This list of 30 airports shows the top 5 for each of the 6 largest USA mainline airlines. The count is million of domestic passengers leaving on domestic routes in 2018 for the particular airline

By this metric, MSP is a better transfer point than DTW, and it is 528 miles further to the west.

33.23 Atlanta, GA Delta ------------------------------------------
19.58 Dallas/Fort Worth, TX American
12.45 Charlotte, NC American
10.54 Chicago, IL United === ORD
9.86 Chicago, IL Southwest === MDW
9.13 Denver, CO United
9.05 Denver, CO Southwest
8.96 Seattle, WA Alaska
8.94 Minneapolis, MN Delta ------------------------------------------
8.78 Las Vegas, NV Southwest
8.72 San Francisco, CA United
8.66 Chicago, IL American
8.59 Baltimore, MD Southwest
8.47 Houston, TX United
8.08 Newark, NJ United
7.63 Phoenix, AZ American
7.50 Phoenix, AZ Southwest
7.30 Detroit, MI Delta ------------------------------------------
7.28 New York, NY Delta ------------------------------------------
7.27 Miami, FL American
6.00 Salt Lake City, UT Delta ------------------------------------------
5.80 New York, NY JetBlue
5.26 Boston, MA JetBlue
3.04 Fort Lauderdale, FL JetBlue
2.53 San Francisco, CA Alaska
2.53 Portland, OR Alaska
2.46 Orlando, FL JetBlue
2.42 Los Angeles, CA Alaska
1.70 Anchorage, AK Alaska
1.38 Long Beach, CA JetBlue



The problem with making MSP the transfer point is that you make all the connections from PIT to CHI and in between pretty much out of the way. Having DTW be the transfer point gives you everything MSP does plus everything eastward to PIT.


The issue with your reasoning is that there is very little demand from Manchester to Indiana. I'd be surprised if a single if a single city in the Midwest other than Chicago had PDEW numbers in the double digits.

Manchester's demand is, somewhat unsurprisingly, skewed to Florida, NYC, BOS, LAX, SFO, LAS, with everything else much, much smaller. VS/DL serve most of the largest destinations non-stop, and have JFK/ATL for connections. This is why AA struggled with Chicago and are down to a 767 to PHL and UA dropped IAD, they are basically serving connecting passengers that VS was serving better.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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klm617
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:04 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
klm617 wrote:
The problem with making MSP the transfer point is that you make all the connections from PIT to CHI and in between pretty much out of the way. Having DTW be the transfer point gives you everything MSP does plus everything eastward to PIT.


I did ask the question, and you have made your argument. It just surprised me that you would pick Detroit over one of our more attractive cities.

Air Transat is flying an A321neo from Montréal to Nice (3,818 miles) so it should be easily possible to fly one from MAN-DTW (3,643 miles)

MAN-ATL-SFO =4,099 mi + 2,139 mi = 6,237 mi
MAN-DTW-SFO =3,643 mi + 2,079 mi = 5,722 mi
MAN- SEA-SFO =4,651 mi + 679 mi = 5,329 mi

Current nonstop routes from MAN to Northern America
American Airlines Philadelphia
United Airlines Newark
Delta Air Lines Seasonal: Boston (begins 21 May 2020)
Virgin Atlantic Atlanta, New York–JFK, Orlando Seasonal: Las Vegas, Los Angeles
Singapore Airlines Houston–Intercontinental
Air Transat Toronto–Pearson Seasonal: Vancouver
Air Canada Rouge Seasonal: Toronto–Pearson


One question I have: if DTW is positioned as a hub for DL in the Midwest, why would an A321NEO be appropriate for DTW-MAN?

I take it that in broad terms something is better than nothing, but a long haul route into a hub should (IMO and FWIW) be flown on a widebody aircraft.

My working assumption is that VS will add more frequencies to LAS and LAX and add SFO (possibly SEA) in the next 2/3 years - and this *might* bypass the mid west (paradoxically assisting the case for a smaller aircraft MAN-DTW).



You mean like BOS-MAN,BOS-EDI, BOS-LGW and BOS-LIS . DTW should be flown either with a 767 5 weekly or 757 daily. All those you mention don't need to connect through the Midwest anyways as SEA, SFO and LAS can connect at LAX. So a DTW flight has no bearing on those destinations.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Ishrion
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:06 pm

PacoMartin wrote:

Air Transat is flying an A321neo from Montréal to Nice (3,818 miles) so it should be easily possible to fly one from MAN-DTW (3,643 miles)


Air Transat is operating the A321LR, not the A321neo. Delta hasn’t ordered the LR nor XLR version, so not sure if the standard could make DTW-MAN.
 
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klm617
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:09 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
klm617 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:

That statement is true if you consider the Asian and European connections that DTW has on Delta and partners. But since Manchester passengers are not likely to fly to the USA for connections to Asia, it is probably an irrelevant metric.

This list of 30 airports shows the top 5 for each of the 6 largest USA mainline airlines. The count is million of domestic passengers leaving on domestic routes in 2018 for the particular airline

By this metric, MSP is a better transfer point than DTW, and it is 528 miles further to the west.

33.23 Atlanta, GA Delta ------------------------------------------
19.58 Dallas/Fort Worth, TX American
12.45 Charlotte, NC American
10.54 Chicago, IL United === ORD
9.86 Chicago, IL Southwest === MDW
9.13 Denver, CO United
9.05 Denver, CO Southwest
8.96 Seattle, WA Alaska
8.94 Minneapolis, MN Delta ------------------------------------------
8.78 Las Vegas, NV Southwest
8.72 San Francisco, CA United
8.66 Chicago, IL American
8.59 Baltimore, MD Southwest
8.47 Houston, TX United
8.08 Newark, NJ United
7.63 Phoenix, AZ American
7.50 Phoenix, AZ Southwest
7.30 Detroit, MI Delta ------------------------------------------
7.28 New York, NY Delta ------------------------------------------
7.27 Miami, FL American
6.00 Salt Lake City, UT Delta ------------------------------------------
5.80 New York, NY JetBlue
5.26 Boston, MA JetBlue
3.04 Fort Lauderdale, FL JetBlue
2.53 San Francisco, CA Alaska
2.53 Portland, OR Alaska
2.46 Orlando, FL JetBlue
2.42 Los Angeles, CA Alaska
1.70 Anchorage, AK Alaska
1.38 Long Beach, CA JetBlue



The problem with making MSP the transfer point is that you make all the connections from PIT to CHI and in between pretty much out of the way. Having DTW be the transfer point gives you everything MSP does plus everything eastward to PIT.


The issue with your reasoning is that there is very little demand from Manchester to Indiana. I'd be surprised if a single if a single city in the Midwest other than Chicago had PDEW numbers in the double digits.

Manchester's demand is, somewhat unsurprisingly, skewed to Florida, NYC, BOS, LAX, SFO, LAS, with everything else much, much smaller. VS/DL serve most of the largest destinations non-stop, and have JFK/ATL for connections. This is why AA struggled with Chicago and are down to a 767 to PHL and UA dropped IAD, they are basically serving connecting passengers that VS was serving better.


That might be true at the moment but with VS building a hub there it makes them more powerful by adding Detroit. Detroit is the perfect place to distribute the MAN based passenger throughout the Midwest and west. Right now I'd say BA/AA is carrying most of that traffic over London. A connection in Detroit could give these people the hassle free connection they are looking for and be a big win for DL/VS.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:09 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
One question I have: if DTW is positioned as a hub for DL in the Midwest, why would an A321NEO be appropriate for DTW-MAN?
I take it that in broad terms something is better than nothing, but a long haul route into a hub should (IMO and FWIW) be flown on a widebody aircraft.
My working assumption is that VS will add more frequencies to LAS and LAX and add SFO (possibly SEA) in the next 2/3 years - and this *might* bypass the mid west (paradoxically assisting the case for a smaller aircraft MAN-DTW).


Unfortunately the USA airlines are frequently connecting smaller cities to only one hub in their network. Greater Manchester with a population of 2.8 million would rank about the same as San Diego in the USA (#15 urban area), but American Airlines, connects Manchester to PHL, United to EWR, Delta to BOS starting next year which aren't even their biggest hubs (just the nearest ones).

Virgin Atlantic- Delta Transatlantic Joint Venture is feeding more final destinations like JFK, Orlando, and Atlanta for connections plus seasonal flights to LAX and LAS.

Bottom line if there was enough traffic to justify a dual-aisle jet, then they would have flown one already. The long range single-aisle jets have the potential to allow you to connect routes with less demand.

Detroit is normally considered Delta's 2nd hub behind Atlanta. But that is just because of the European and Asian connections which are of no interest to Manchester passengers. Manchester already has non-stops to Beijing and Hong Kong so routing through Detroit would nearly double the length of the route.

When you just look at domestic passengers, Detroit is basically tied for 3rd place with JFK and not significantly ahead of SLC. Delta has been spending a lot to build up operations in SEA over the last few years.

Domestic passengers in 2018
33.23 Atlanta, GA Delta ------------------------------------------
8.94 Minneapolis, MN Delta ------------------------------------------
7.30 Detroit, MI Delta ------------------------------------------
7.28 New York, NY Delta ------------------------------------------
6.00 Salt Lake City, UT Delta ------------------------------------------
 
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klm617
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:13 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
klm617 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:

That statement is true if you consider the Asian and European connections that DTW has on Delta and partners. But since Manchester passengers are not likely to fly to the USA for connections to Asia, it is probably an irrelevant metric.

This list of 30 airports shows the top 5 for each of the 6 largest USA mainline airlines. The count is million of domestic passengers leaving on domestic routes in 2018 for the particular airline

By this metric, MSP is a better transfer point than DTW, and it is 528 miles further to the west.

33.23 Atlanta, GA Delta ------------------------------------------
19.58 Dallas/Fort Worth, TX American
12.45 Charlotte, NC American
10.54 Chicago, IL United === ORD
9.86 Chicago, IL Southwest === MDW
9.13 Denver, CO United
9.05 Denver, CO Southwest
8.96 Seattle, WA Alaska
8.94 Minneapolis, MN Delta ------------------------------------------
8.78 Las Vegas, NV Southwest
8.72 San Francisco, CA United
8.66 Chicago, IL American
8.59 Baltimore, MD Southwest
8.47 Houston, TX United
8.08 Newark, NJ United
7.63 Phoenix, AZ American
7.50 Phoenix, AZ Southwest
7.30 Detroit, MI Delta ------------------------------------------
7.28 New York, NY Delta ------------------------------------------
7.27 Miami, FL American
6.00 Salt Lake City, UT Delta ------------------------------------------
5.80 New York, NY JetBlue
5.26 Boston, MA JetBlue
3.04 Fort Lauderdale, FL JetBlue
2.53 San Francisco, CA Alaska
2.53 Portland, OR Alaska
2.46 Orlando, FL JetBlue
2.42 Los Angeles, CA Alaska
1.70 Anchorage, AK Alaska
1.38 Long Beach, CA JetBlue



The problem with making MSP the transfer point is that you make all the connections from PIT to CHI and in between pretty much out of the way. Having DTW be the transfer point gives you everything MSP does plus everything eastward to PIT.


The issue with your reasoning is that there is very little demand from Manchester to Indiana. I'd be surprised if a single if a single city in the Midwest other than Chicago had PDEW numbers in the double digits.

Manchester's demand is, somewhat unsurprisingly, skewed to Florida, NYC, BOS, LAX, SFO, LAS, with everything else much, much smaller. VS/DL serve most of the largest destinations non-stop, and have JFK/ATL for connections. This is why AA struggled with Chicago and are down to a 767 to PHL and UA dropped IAD, they are basically serving connecting passengers that VS was serving better.


Please you can't say AA struggled operating ORD-MAN because then you'd have to say they struggled with ORD-FRA and that that was also not a sustainable route. AA operated ORD-MAN for years before they started to pull down their international flying from ORD.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:18 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
One question I have: if DTW is positioned as a hub for DL in the Midwest, why would an A321NEO be appropriate for DTW-MAN?
I take it that in broad terms something is better than nothing, but a long haul route into a hub should (IMO and FWIW) be flown on a widebody aircraft.
My working assumption is that VS will add more frequencies to LAS and LAX and add SFO (possibly SEA) in the next 2/3 years - and this *might* bypass the mid west (paradoxically assisting the case for a smaller aircraft MAN-DTW).


Unfortunately the USA airlines are frequently connecting smaller cities to only one hub in their network. Greater Manchester with a population of 2.8 million would rank about the same as San Diego in the USA (#15 urban area), but American Airlines, connects Manchester to PHL, United to EWR, Delta to BOS starting next year which aren't even their biggest hubs (just the nearest ones).

Virgin Atlantic- Delta Transatlantic Joint Venture is feeding more final destinations like JFK, Orlando, and Atlanta for connections plus seasonal flights to LAX and LAS.

Bottom line if there was enough traffic to justify a dual-aisle jet, then they would have flown one already. The long range single-aisle jets have the potential to allow you to connect routes with less demand.

Detroit is normally considered Delta's 2nd hub behind Atlanta. But that is just because of the European and Asian connections which are of no interest to Manchester passengers. Manchester already has non-stops to Beijing and Hong Kong so routing through Detroit would nearly double the length of the route.

When you just look at domestic passengers, Detroit is basically tied for 3rd place with JFK and not significantly ahead of SLC. Delta has been spending a lot to build up operations in SEA over the last few years.

Domestic passengers in 2018
33.23 Atlanta, GA Delta ------------------------------------------
8.94 Minneapolis, MN Delta ------------------------------------------
7.30 Detroit, MI Delta ------------------------------------------
7.28 New York, NY Delta ------------------------------------------
6.00 Salt Lake City, UT Delta ------------------------------------------



The NYC numbers can't be JFK that has to be JFK and LGA combined.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:31 pm

This is why AA struggled with Chicago


AA ran MAN-ORD for around 20 years, hardly a struggling route.

The reason it failed at the end was because the OTP dropped through the floor and high cancellation rate due to either the shed of the B767 going tech or the fact that they only had a small subfleet of B787 at ORD, the MAN flight being the last B787 departure of the day meant if there were issues thru the day it was always MAN that got canned.

This all meant pax rightly voted with their feet and went over to the likes of VS and UA instead, who are expanding at MAN so shows how to do it right.

AA had no one but themselves to blame for ORD failing from MAN.
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:34 pm

User001 wrote:
This is why AA struggled with Chicago


AA ran MAN-ORD for around 20 years, hardly a struggling route.

The reason it failed at the end was because the OTP dropped through the floor and high cancellation rate due to either the shed of the B767 going tech or the fact that they only had a small subfleet of B787 at ORD, the MAN flight being the last B787 departure of the day meant if there were issues thru the day it was always MAN that got canned.

This all meant pax rightly voted with their feet and went over to the likes of VS and UA instead, who are expanding at MAN so shows how to do it right.

AA had no one but themselves to blame for ORD failing from MAN.



Flight 54 and 55 Started with a 767 and I believe a 757 in the low season
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:34 pm

klm617 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
One question I have: if DTW is positioned as a hub for DL in the Midwest, why would an A321NEO be appropriate for DTW-MAN?
I take it that in broad terms something is better than nothing, but a long haul route into a hub should (IMO and FWIW) be flown on a widebody aircraft.
My working assumption is that VS will add more frequencies to LAS and LAX and add SFO (possibly SEA) in the next 2/3 years - and this *might* bypass the mid west (paradoxically assisting the case for a smaller aircraft MAN-DTW).


Unfortunately the USA airlines are frequently connecting smaller cities to only one hub in their network. Greater Manchester with a population of 2.8 million would rank about the same as San Diego in the USA (#15 urban area), but American Airlines, connects Manchester to PHL, United to EWR, Delta to BOS starting next year which aren't even their biggest hubs (just the nearest ones).

Virgin Atlantic- Delta Transatlantic Joint Venture is feeding more final destinations like JFK, Orlando, and Atlanta for connections plus seasonal flights to LAX and LAS.

Bottom line if there was enough traffic to justify a dual-aisle jet, then they would have flown one already. The long range single-aisle jets have the potential to allow you to connect routes with less demand.

Detroit is normally considered Delta's 2nd hub behind Atlanta. But that is just because of the European and Asian connections which are of no interest to Manchester passengers. Manchester already has non-stops to Beijing and Hong Kong so routing through Detroit would nearly double the length of the route.

When you just look at domestic passengers, Detroit is basically tied for 3rd place with JFK and not significantly ahead of SLC. Delta has been spending a lot to build up operations in SEA over the last few years.

Domestic passengers in 2018
33.23 Atlanta, GA Delta ------------------------------------------
8.94 Minneapolis, MN Delta ------------------------------------------
7.30 Detroit, MI Delta ------------------------------------------
7.28 New York, NY Delta ------------------------------------------
6.00 Salt Lake City, UT Delta ------------------------------------------



The NYC numbers can't be JFK that has to be JFK and LGA combined.


Uh... apparently Delta at JFK from May 2018-May 2019 was 11.8 million domestic passengers: https://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-tra ... Y_2019.pdf

And Delta at LGA January 2018-January 2019 was 11.9 million domestic passengers: https://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-tra ... N_2019.pdf

I can't seem to find DL's DTW domestic passengers, but I assume it's greater than JFK or LGA considering DL/Skywest served 19 million total from August 2018-July 2019
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:44 pm

klm617 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
klm617 wrote:


The problem with making MSP the transfer point is that you make all the connections from PIT to CHI and in between pretty much out of the way. Having DTW be the transfer point gives you everything MSP does plus everything eastward to PIT.


The issue with your reasoning is that there is very little demand from Manchester to Indiana. I'd be surprised if a single if a single city in the Midwest other than Chicago had PDEW numbers in the double digits.

Manchester's demand is, somewhat unsurprisingly, skewed to Florida, NYC, BOS, LAX, SFO, LAS, with everything else much, much smaller. VS/DL serve most of the largest destinations non-stop, and have JFK/ATL for connections. This is why AA struggled with Chicago and are down to a 767 to PHL and UA dropped IAD, they are basically serving connecting passengers that VS was serving better.


That might be true at the moment but with VS building a hub there it makes them more powerful by adding Detroit. Detroit is the perfect place to distribute the MAN based passenger throughout the Midwest and west. Right now I'd say BA/AA is carrying most of that traffic over London. A connection in Detroit could give these people the hassle free connection they are looking for and be a big win for DL/VS.


In 2017 the PPDEW for MAN-DTW was estimated at just over 51. With a little hubbing at either end, and some organic growth, that might just work out...

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... -for-2017/
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:50 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
klm617 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

The issue with your reasoning is that there is very little demand from Manchester to Indiana. I'd be surprised if a single if a single city in the Midwest other than Chicago had PDEW numbers in the double digits.

Manchester's demand is, somewhat unsurprisingly, skewed to Florida, NYC, BOS, LAX, SFO, LAS, with everything else much, much smaller. VS/DL serve most of the largest destinations non-stop, and have JFK/ATL for connections. This is why AA struggled with Chicago and are down to a 767 to PHL and UA dropped IAD, they are basically serving connecting passengers that VS was serving better.


That might be true at the moment but with VS building a hub there it makes them more powerful by adding Detroit. Detroit is the perfect place to distribute the MAN based passenger throughout the Midwest and west. Right now I'd say BA/AA is carrying most of that traffic over London. A connection in Detroit could give these people the hassle free connection they are looking for and be a big win for DL/VS.


In 2017 the PPDEW for MAN-DTW was estimated at just over 51. With a little hubbing at either end, and some organic growth, that might just work out...

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... -for-2017/


And that was 2 years ago I'm sure it's higher now. 51 is almost 1/2 a 757 full.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:11 am

klm617 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
klm617 wrote:


The problem with making MSP the transfer point is that you make all the connections from PIT to CHI and in between pretty much out of the way. Having DTW be the transfer point gives you everything MSP does plus everything eastward to PIT.


The issue with your reasoning is that there is very little demand from Manchester to Indiana. I'd be surprised if a single if a single city in the Midwest other than Chicago had PDEW numbers in the double digits.

Manchester's demand is, somewhat unsurprisingly, skewed to Florida, NYC, BOS, LAX, SFO, LAS, with everything else much, much smaller. VS/DL serve most of the largest destinations non-stop, and have JFK/ATL for connections. This is why AA struggled with Chicago and are down to a 767 to PHL and UA dropped IAD, they are basically serving connecting passengers that VS was serving better.


Please you can't say AA struggled operating ORD-MAN because then you'd have to say they struggled with ORD-FRA and that that was also not a sustainable route. AA operated ORD-MAN for years before they started to pull down their international flying from ORD.


I'm well aware of that route being around for a long time. I first flew it in March 1992, and it dates back to the 80s.

AA have chopped and changed over the past few years with terrible reliability (e.g. 757s in winter) which destroyed their reputation, and picked up PHL which was traditionally a strong route for US Airways, but that route has also dwindled somewhat.

United are also smaller than they were a decade ago, even with switching to the 767.

Some of the traffic that AA/US/CO were carrying 10 years ago has shifted to VS/DL. That much is pretty undeniable given that the former have shrunk while the latter have grown significantly.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:34 am

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/carriers.asp?pn=1
Based on total enplaned passengers at all airports in a city. (January - December 2018)
Atlanta, GA 33.23m 72.70%
Minneapolis, MN 8.94m 53.05%
Detroit, MI 7.30m 46.93%
New York, NY 7.28m 26.01%
Salt Lake City, UT 6.00m 51.17%
Other 63.73m 9.65%
* Based on total enplaned passengers at all airports in a city.
** The table shows the carrier's share in each of the markets.


Top Domestic Markets* (September 2018 - August 2019)
Atlanta, GA 34.14m 72.89%
Minneapolis, MN 9.17m 53.22%
New York, NY 7.89m 27.87%
Detroit, MI 7.77m 48.71%
Salt Lake City, UT 6.31m 52.08%
Other 67.66m 9.97%
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:52 am

New route to be announced today/tomorrow, anyone have further info?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:54 am

digitalcloud wrote:
New route to be announced today/tomorrow, anyone have further info?


Where'd you hear that?
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:22 pm

It will be announced tomorrow
 
8herveg
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:36 pm

Something from VS maybe? Surely it's about time they announce by now what changes are going to be made for the S20 season, apart from the increased schedules to BGI, LAS and MCO!
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:04 pm

digitalcloud wrote:
New route to be announced today/tomorrow, anyone have further info?


Flybe's 12 Nov announcement said Further changes are highly likely in the next few weeks.

November 12, 2019
Flybe summer 2020 changes.
Flybe has started to release its summer 2020 Schedule, and below is a brief summary of its Manchester changes.
New route to Stuttgart:
BE7131 MAN 0730 STR 1025 Daily
BE7132 STR 1100 MAN 1205 Daily
Begins 28th March 2020.route is currently unserved by any other carrier.
Luxembourg increases from 4 weekly to daily
Dusseldorf is reduced from 4 daily to 3 daily
La Rochelle, Milan Malpensa, Nantes, Rennes and Toulouse appears to be permanently suspended.


Let me modify my previous question. Virgin Atlantic connects MAN to five USA destinations. If it were a new route from Virgin, which do you prefer: MIA, SFO, IAD, or SEA?

Virgin Atlantic Destinations in USA
Las Vegas McCarran International ...
Los Angeles International...
John F. Kennedy International...
Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson International ...
Orlando International ...
Miami International ...
San Francisco International ...
Washington Dulles International ...
Seattle-Tacoma (SeaTac) ...

Newark Liberty International ... United Airlines from Manchester
Boston Logan International ... Delta Airlines from Manchester starting 2020
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:32 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
digitalcloud wrote:
New route to be announced today/tomorrow, anyone have further info?


Flybe's 12 Nov announcement said Further changes are highly likely in the next few weeks.

November 12, 2019
Flybe summer 2020 changes.
Flybe has started to release its summer 2020 Schedule, and below is a brief summary of its Manchester changes.
New route to Stuttgart:
BE7131 MAN 0730 STR 1025 Daily
BE7132 STR 1100 MAN 1205 Daily
Begins 28th March 2020.route is currently unserved by any other carrier.
Luxembourg increases from 4 weekly to daily
Dusseldorf is reduced from 4 daily to 3 daily
La Rochelle, Milan Malpensa, Nantes, Rennes and Toulouse appears to be permanently suspended.


Let me modify my previous question. Virgin Atlantic connects MAN to five USA destinations. If it were a new route from Virgin, which do you prefer: MIA, SFO, IAD, or SEA?

Virgin Atlantic Destinations in USA
Las Vegas McCarran International ...
Los Angeles International...
John F. Kennedy International...
Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson International ...
Orlando International ...
Miami International ...
San Francisco International ...
Washington Dulles International ...
Seattle-Tacoma (SeaTac) ...

Newark Liberty International ... United Airlines from Manchester
Boston Logan International ... Delta Airlines from Manchester starting 2020


I agree it's likely to be a Flybe route, though I'm struggling to think of the logical hole they would fill.

Maybe SEN? They have been adding more flights there recently. But domestic flying is a bit questionable in the political climate. Can't see it being somewhere like Eindhoven. Perhaps Brussels?
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:26 pm

jubaexpress wrote:
But domestic flying is a bit questionable in the political climate.


Political climate? Is this about carbon footprint? As I understand it the first rail service between London and the West Midlands on HS2 will not happen until 2026.
Jets have to be better than automobiles even over 176 miles.
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:33 pm

The announcement tomorrow is not a flybe route.
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:36 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
digitalcloud wrote:
New route to be announced today/tomorrow, anyone have further info?


Flybe's 12 Nov announcement said Further changes are highly likely in the next few weeks.

November 12, 2019
Flybe summer 2020 changes.
Flybe has started to release its summer 2020 Schedule, and below is a brief summary of its Manchester changes.
New route to Stuttgart:
BE7131 MAN 0730 STR 1025 Daily
BE7132 STR 1100 MAN 1205 Daily
Begins 28th March 2020.route is currently unserved by any other carrier.
Luxembourg increases from 4 weekly to daily
Dusseldorf is reduced from 4 daily to 3 daily
La Rochelle, Milan Malpensa, Nantes, Rennes and Toulouse appears to be permanently suspended.


Let me modify my previous question. Virgin Atlantic connects MAN to five USA destinations. If it were a new route from Virgin, which do you prefer: MIA, SFO, IAD, or SEA?

Virgin Atlantic Destinations in USA
Las Vegas McCarran International ...
Los Angeles International...
John F. Kennedy International...
Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson International ...
Orlando International ...
Miami International ...
San Francisco International ...
Washington Dulles International ...
Seattle-Tacoma (SeaTac) ...

Newark Liberty International ... United Airlines from Manchester
Boston Logan International ... Delta Airlines from Manchester starting 2020



You forgot to add DTW as an option that would be my guess.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:37 pm

User001 wrote:
The announcement tomorrow is not a flybe route.



DTW-MAN on Delta
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:42 pm

User001 wrote:
The announcement tomorrow is not a flybe route.


Cool, I’ll be self-centered and say an AA 788 DFW-MAN or an A332 CLT-MAN.
 
8herveg
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:43 pm

klm617 wrote:
User001 wrote:
The announcement tomorrow is not a flybe route.



DTW-MAN on Delta


Is this just your hope/speculation or do you actually believe this is going to be launched?
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:54 pm

It's none of the routes suggested so far. Sorry I cannot say what it is atm, been told its embargoed until tomorrow.
 
8herveg
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:00 pm

User001 wrote:
It's none of the routes suggested so far. Sorry I cannot say what it is atm, been told its embargoed until tomorrow.


Out of interest, how do you know what it is? Before it's been made public...
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:06 pm

Well placed sources. All will be revealed tomorrow.
Last edited by User001 on Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jubaexpress
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:19 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
jubaexpress wrote:
But domestic flying is a bit questionable in the political climate.


Political climate? Is this about carbon footprint? As I understand it the first rail service between London and the West Midlands on HS2 will not happen until 2026.
Jets have to be better than automobiles even over 176 miles.


Yes, I mean political climate concerning emissions. It's not terribly wise to be seen opening a route between London and Manchester with a very good rail service. The only reason would be to get round to the east of London without going through the middle over land, and to connect to the little hub they seem to be building at SEN.

No, it's nothing to do with HS2. There are already many, many trains running a frequent service to Manchester from London. This is not a thread about that.

If it's a long-haul that's been often rumoured I'll wager my £5 on it being Thai to BKK.
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:22 pm

I reckon Thai to Bangkok, Kuwait to Kuwait City or Air China or China Eastern to Shanghai.
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:28 pm

8herveg wrote:
I reckon Thai to Bangkok, Kuwait to Kuwait City or Air China or China Eastern to Shanghai.


That prompted a line of thought that it might be that new outfit that wanted to do Shanghai via Helsinki and wager a smaller amount on that.
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:33 pm

TPA, SAN, DEN or MIA would be interesting.
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
HUYfan
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:19 pm

Virgin to SFO or United to ORD?

Kind regards

HUYfan
 
Luftymatt
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:31 pm

This was posted on Manchester airports official facebook page regarding the route announcement tomorrow:

We’re looking forward to tomorrow, so we can say hai to another exciting route coming to MAN. ✈️
chase the sun
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:25 pm

Luftymatt wrote:
This was posted on Manchester airports official facebook page regarding the route announcement tomorrow:

We’re looking forward to tomorrow, so we can say hai to another exciting route coming to MAN. ✈️


A quick Google translate indicates 'hai' is a Hindi word, though it doesn't seem to mean 'Hi' but instead 'is'.

Don't know if that's reading too much into it.

Missed the obvious one that it could be Shang(Hai).
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:46 pm

jubaexpress wrote:
Luftymatt wrote:
This was posted on Manchester airports official facebook page regarding the route announcement tomorrow:

We’re looking forward to tomorrow, so we can say hai to another exciting route coming to MAN. ✈️


A quick Google translate indicates 'hai' is a Hindi word, though it doesn't seem to mean 'Hi' but instead 'is'.

Don't know if that's reading too much into it.

Missed the obvious one that it could be Shang(Hai).


I think it’s more likely to be a route by Thai - T(hai).
 
David_itl
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:59 pm

Hai have no idea but it looks like 2 route reveals in 2 weeks. One of which we can likely say it's about Thame.


In the meantime there's an interesting Anna Aero analysis of the Kangaroo route that has thrown up some titbits. in the Top 10 UK-Australia routes, MAN features no fewer than 4 times (Sydney 77692 pax, Perth 56196 pax, Melbourne 51636 pax and Brisbane 51199) ranked 5th, 8th, 9th and 10th.

In terms of overall traffic, it goes LHR 1.425 million, MAN 266,000, Gatwick 194,000,. Edinburgh 75.000, Birmingham 71000 and Glasgow 57.500

https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/19/the-kangaroo-route-sees-2-2-million-passengers/
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:28 pm

Luftymatt wrote:
We’re looking forward to tomorrow, so we can say hai to another exciting route coming to MAN. ✈️


It could be an English language orthography of Indonesian, Japanese, Chinese or Vietnamese word. But it is not Thai.

In Indonesian it means "hi" which is the easiest word to put in the sentence.

In Mandarin it could be hāi, hái, hǎi, or hài with multiple possible meanings.
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:42 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
Luftymatt wrote:
We’re looking forward to tomorrow, so we can say hai to another exciting route coming to MAN. ✈️


It could be an English language orthography of Indonesian, Japanese, Chinese or Vietnamese word. But it is not Thai.

In Indonesian it means "hi" which is the easiest word to put in the sentence.

In Mandarin it could be hāi, hái, hǎi, or hài with multiple possible meanings.


It also means hi/hello in Malay and, with small spelling variations, could also be Danish or Icelandic.
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:35 pm

DeltaB717 wrote:
It also means hi/hello in Malay and, with small spelling variations, could also be Danish or Icelandic.


The word has a Romance interpretation and a Finno Ungaric one as well, but I doubt they are relevent
French Verb first-person singular present active indicative of havoir
Italian Verb second-person singular present indicative of avere
Spanish Verb (Chile) Informal second-person singular (vos) present indicative form of haber.
Galician third-person singular present indicative of haber
Asturian Verb third-person singular present indicative of haber
Middle English verb Alternative form of haven (“to have”)
Finnish shark
Estonian shark

Despite the good fit of the translation with Indonesian language the Soekarno–Hatta International Airport (66.9 MAP) only has flights to two European destinations
KLM Amsterdam (7,055 mi)
Turkish Airlines Istanbul (5,875 mi)
 
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Re: Manchester (UK) Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:56 am

and it is.... Juneyao 3 weekly to Shanghai via Helsinki.New 5th Freedom route. Mon. Wed, Fir. Arrive 0830, depart 1000 on 789s https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/chinese-airline-launches-new-service-17281621

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