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ukflyer1999
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Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:11 am

As has already been discussed on here it was recently announced thar Wizz Air is expected to become Luton Airport’s largest carrier in terms of seat capacity by summer 2019, however how much further can this expansion go with Luton restricted by aircraft parking stands?

What routes do people think Wizz could potentially launch in the future from Luton and what is their current strategy launching routes such as that of Catania and Turku?

Opinions on the likelihood of future destinations such as Eindhoven, Malmo, Stavanger, Dortmund, Podgorica, Zagreb, Tuzla or Sarajevo, and maybe even expanding in the Middle-East beyond their current Israeli operations with possibly a Beirut or Amman route?

Wizz has also mentioned that they’re considering other London airports due to the constraints at Luton, so far they only fly from Gatwick to Bucharest once daily, but as of next year will also have daily flights to Budapest and Cluj. What other routes could people see being launched? Will they be at Gatwick or will Wizz consider other airports such as Southend to compete with Ryanair’s new base there?

Wizz to become Luton’s largest Airlines - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news ... wth-luton/

Wizz consider other airports - https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ar-454474/
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:03 am

Luton-Tuzla was terminated by Wizz in October 2017
 
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holcakker
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:20 am

Southend is no place for 321s and heavy 320s.
 
Blerg
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:58 am

SJJ and ZAG won't be happening any time soon, both airports are considered as too expensive by the airline. Also, I don't know how big the market is, OU downgraded its LHR operations last year while BA didn't respond with additional flights, not only that but they even reduced ZAG to five weekly in January and February.
 
a350lover
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:10 am

Luton crowded makes me think .... where are the free-slot runways around the London area? Man, that market is mad! No matter which airport airlines choose, they all end up constraint by the huge amount of capacity deployed everywhere around the city and big area around London.
 
[email protected]
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:37 am

All LON airports except SEN are Level 3 coordinated for both seasons. Level 3 airports are those "airports where capacity providers have not developed sufficient infrastructure, or where governments have imposed conditions that make it impossible to meet demand" (https://www.iata.org/policy/slots/Docum ... nglish.pdf)

Of course, there are still slots to be acquired, e.g. from quieter times or from acquisition, hence Wizz's recent growth at LGW, or from having 'virtual' use of stands, e.g. Wizz's latest growth from LTN not requiring overnight stands as they'll be flying. Clearly, though, it'll be hard for them to grow significantly within LON at present.

Have a play with different reports on ACL's website at the different reports.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
SCQ83
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:00 am

I wouldn't be surprised they launch LGW-WAW. The only other competitor in the route is easyJet.

If they ever start STN, STN-WAW could be interesting. Currently the only Stansted-Warsaw route is STN-WMI in Ryanair, which had +400,000 PAX in 2017. I am sure WAW instead of WMI would be welcomed for frequent fliers on that route.
 
a350lover
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:15 am

Although Wizz doesn't target much of the London-Western Europe market... they might want to give it a go to some airports which currently do not have direct access to London area, or that they lost previous connections. Since we are talking about mainly expats-leisure markets, I wouldn't call them too picky on departure/arrival times.

In Spain, I could think of:

Vigo (soon to be launched Stansted-Vigo by Ryanair 2x/w)
Asturias (dropped by Easyjet - from STN)
Vitoria (years ago dropped by Ryanair - from STN)
Valladolid (years ago dropped by Ryanair - from STN)

If they were after subsides, which I believe is part of Wizz's policy they could even try Leon or Badajoz. Extremadura is great, has some tourism reputation and has no airlinks other than BCN or MAD.

Out of Spain, Podgorica would be another great addition in my opinion.

Morocco is a huge market from London too, served by many. Wizz could maybe give it a go?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:26 pm

[email protected] wrote:
All LON airports except SEN are Level 3 coordinated for both seasons. Level 3 airports are those "airports where capacity providers have not developed sufficient infrastructure, or where governments have imposed conditions that make it impossible to meet demand" (https://www.iata.org/policy/slots/Docum ... nglish.pdf)

Of course, there are still slots to be acquired, e.g. from quieter times or from acquisition, hence Wizz's recent growth at LGW, or from having 'virtual' use of stands, e.g. Wizz's latest growth from LTN not requiring overnight stands as they'll be flying. Clearly, though, it'll be hard for them to grow significantly within LON at present.

Have a play with different reports on ACL's website at the different reports.

I find it insane that any city would let itself get so constrained on capacity. Yes, I write this as a resident of greater Los Angeles. ;) Both cities need more capacity! I've been waiting 30+ years to see a 3rd runway at LHR. That rediculously long cap on LGW expansion is about to expire...

Build capacity or be bypassed. The WSJ on Monday had an article on how the new planes allow bypass.

Or let all the growth happen in Asia. :yawn:

London needs to be building 3 new runways with terminal and ground transportation capacity. When?

Lightsaber
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SCQ83
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:33 pm

a350lover wrote:
Although Wizz doesn't target much of the London-Western Europe market... they might want to give it a go to some airports which currently do not have direct access to London area, or that they lost previous connections. Since we are talking about mainly expats-leisure markets, I wouldn't call them too picky on departure/arrival times.

In Spain, I could think of:

Vigo (soon to be launched Stansted-Vigo by Ryanair 2x/w)
Asturias (dropped by Easyjet - from STN)
Vitoria (years ago dropped by Ryanair - from STN)
Valladolid (years ago dropped by Ryanair - from STN)

If they were after subsides, which I believe is part of Wizz's policy they could even try Leon or Badajoz. Extremadura is great, has some tourism reputation and has no airlinks other than BCN or MAD.


Are you kidding? Ryanair is starting VGO-STN because the city council of Vigo is paying 4 million Euro to FR for three routes (BCN, STN and DUB). The others were left by Ryanair/easyJet/Vueling because subsidies ran out. So no subsidies = no routes.

Wizz Air targets Western European airports which are UK point of sale holiday markets, particularly those with no routes or little competition from Luton. So far: Athens, Bari, Bergen, Catania, Grenoble, Lisbon, Oslo, Porto, Reykjavik, Split, Thessaloniki and Verona.

If there is anything in Spain, I am sure those will be large airports (MAD, BCN, ALC, AGP, VLC, SVQ, PMI, etc.)
 
[email protected]
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:50 pm

A good number of opportunities - capacity and slot depending - that are underserved (in terms of leaked pax) or unserved.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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albertocsc
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:29 pm

a350lover wrote:
Although Wizz doesn't target much of the London-Western Europe market... they might want to give it a go to some airports which currently do not have direct access to London area, or that they lost previous connections. Since we are talking about mainly expats-leisure markets, I wouldn't call them too picky on departure/arrival times.

In Spain, I could think of:

Vigo (soon to be launched Stansted-Vigo by Ryanair 2x/w)
Asturias (dropped by Easyjet - from STN)
Vitoria (years ago dropped by Ryanair - from STN)
Valladolid (years ago dropped by Ryanair - from STN)

If they were after subsides, which I believe is part of Wizz's policy they could even try Leon or Badajoz. Extremadura is great, has some tourism reputation and has no airlinks other than BCN or MAD.


If we keep to that criterium, I'd add Ciudad Real to the list, as also it was dropped by Ryanair, who operated only STN out of CQM.

Actually, if CQM ever reopens, I don't think Wizz will come, and if they do, I'd see them operating Romanian routes or KIV rather than LTN.

But one can always dream of a link between his two cities :D
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:01 pm

[email protected] wrote:
A good number of opportunities - capacity and slot depending - that are underserved (in terms of leaked pax) or unserved.


What destinations would you have in mind?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:08 pm

I believe when Wizzair UK was founded they mentioned bases outside London. Can't find the source anymore, but out of my head Liverpool was mentioned as a possible base. This would make sense as Wizzair already has a number of flights to Liverpool, although by far not as much as Luton.

Doncaster-Sheffield is another possible future Wizzair UK base. This might benefit them as here they don't face competition from Ryanair, it's the only British airports that doesn't see Ryanair but does see Wizzair.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:20 pm

From LTN Southern Italy IMO would have potential. Naples and Palermo only flown by easyJet. Cagliari and Lamezia Terme have no flights to LTN. S. Italy is a fast-growing city-break / tourism destination (and a source of VFR traffic to London), so it fits perfectly on the kind of destinations they have from LTN in Western Europe.
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:06 pm

I wonder if Wizz Air UK could try a UK-Istanbul flight, which may allow another aircraft with a "virtual stand" (late night departure, morning return to Luton).
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:18 pm

LTenEleven wrote:
I wonder if Wizz Air UK could try a UK-Istanbul flight, which may allow another aircraft with a "virtual stand" (late night departure, morning return to Luton).


Wizzair does not fly to Turkey at all, so this seems highly unlikely. Besides, the London - Istanbul market is quite saturated and Pegasus is offering very competitive prices on their Stansted - Sabiha Gokçen route. Don't think Wizzair would want to mess with that.

If they ever start flights to Turkey, I suspect they start it from eastern Europe first. Hungary, Romania, Poland perhaps. That's less far than the UK and it's their home market. Once that works, they might extend it to London as well. But that's far from certain.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:21 pm

LTenEleven wrote:
I wonder if Wizz Air UK could try a UK-Istanbul flight, which may allow another aircraft with a "virtual stand" (late night departure, morning return to Luton).


Wizzair flew BUD-SAW for a while and left the market. IMO the issue with Western European low-cost carriers flying to Istanbul is that the market is already overserved with Turkish, Pegasus, Atlas and Onur Air.

W6 serves LTN-TLV, so LTN-BEY could be interesting. At the moment there is only BA and MEA between LON and BEY. No idea though about the bilateral between the UK and Lebanon.
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:28 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
I wonder if Wizz Air UK could try a UK-Istanbul flight, which may allow another aircraft with a "virtual stand" (late night departure, morning return to Luton).


Wizzair does not fly to Turkey at all, so this seems highly unlikely. Besides, the London - Istanbul market is quite saturated and Pegasus is offering very competitive prices on their Stansted - Sabiha Gokçen route. Don't think Wizzair would want to mess with that.

If they ever start flights to Turkey, I suspect they start it from eastern Europe first. Hungary, Romania, Poland perhaps. That's less far than the UK and it's their home market. Once that works, they might extend it to London as well. But that's far from certain.


Bilaterals would prevent them from flying from Romania or Poland. As mentioned previously, Wizz tried from Budapest before but that did not last long. Given their latest round of announcements from LTN, and the lack of a LTN to Istanbul flights, I would not totally exclude the possibility.

When did EasyJet's LTN-SAW end? Summer 2013?
 
MCTSET
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:22 pm

If Flybe go bust I can see them taking their slots, they have already done this in Luton, particularly Birmingham as they already have a few flights there.
 
aviatorcraig
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:24 pm

In it's earlier days Wizz Air used to fly from Bournemouth and Coventry, but dropped both abruptly during a downturn.
Whilst I don't even know if airline operations are viable from Coventry anymore, Bournemouth surely has some potential for expansion for a now much larger and UK based Wizz Air operation. The airport, now part of MAG has full facilities, a decent size runway, lack of slot control and most importantly, a large and relatively affluent catchment area in the Central South with which it has excellent road connections.
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gilesdavies
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:09 pm

I think we'll continue see Wizz Air grow at Gatwick, they are not afraid to pay for new slots at the airport as and when they become available...

London is such a large market, it seems clear they want to have a small presence for people in the south of London and the market this covers. Gatwick is very underserved with routes to Eastern Europe, with easyJet only offering a smattering of flights to the capitals like Warsaw (4x weekly) and Budapest (daily). Wizzair operates to both these 3-5 times daily just from Luton!

I am surprised we haven't yet seen Wizz Air operate Vienna to London, considering they have bases in both cities, and think this is the only Wizz base not to operate a route to London.

While the inn at Luton might be full right now, for basing aircraft there, there is still plenty of runway availability and stands to use outside of the morning rush, for aircraft flying in. So suspect Wizz will continue to operate new routes to Luton from other bases, for example the new Krakow base will use aircraft based there to operate the LTN route.

I wouldn't be surprised in the not to distant future, we will see small bases open up in cities like Tirana, Pristina and Ljubljana, which are all currently operated by Wizz Air UK aircraft. If bases were opened up in these cities, they could easily switch to being operated by the aircraft based there and frees up the LTN aircraft to fly to other new cities.

I am sure I read LTN will be building another 4-6 stands next winter that will come online in early 2020.

I think the best way to predict new routes with Wizz Air from London, is to look at their route map and see what cities they already fly to from other bases, and if there is not already a low cost carrier from London operating the route, there is a good chance they will try it out! They already fly to Georgia from LTN and makes me wonder if they'd be willing to try flying further east to cities like Baku and Astana, which they fly already from Budapest.

I think we will continue to see them building up their route network from London to Scandanavia, with some focus on Sweden, and applying the screws to Norwegian. As mentioned Beirut would be an interesting one, and wonder if they might try going after easyJet to Gibraltar.

This one is a little out there, but I have always wondered if Wizz Air might try and dip their toes in the UK-Russia market, they already fly to St Petersburg and Moscow from Budapest, so have some experience with the Russian market. UK/Russia political relations are very frosty right now, but flights between both countries continue. Bilateral agreements between both countres allow for two airlines from each nation to operate between UK and Russia, currently you have Aeroflot and S7 as the Russian airlines, but British Airways is the only UK airline flying to Russia after easyJet pulled out a few years ago. I wonder is Wizz Air UK might pick it up?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Future of Wizz Air in London

Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:59 pm

When Easyjet flew Gatwick-Moscow, yields were pretty poor. Political relations have worsened since then.

London-Baku is an oil/gas route and flights already exist but maybe there is room for Wizzair.

London-Astana is considerably further away - at 6h30 flight time and almost an hour longer than Wizz's existing longest route; the market would have to be pretty compelling for a LCC to send a A320 / A321 on such a long route. Heathrow-Astana currently has just 4 flights per week so Wizz would need to believe cheaper fares would significantly stimulate demand while still allowing them a profit

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