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Zoedyn
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China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:31 am

Welcome to the thread for China Southern centering round its route network/fleet/global growth in 2019

2019 will be extraordinarily significant for CZ as it marks the year-long transitional period for the biggest Chinese airline to sort out remaining issues following its departure from SkyTeam as of Jan 1st

Meanwhile it’s certain CZ will be continuing to vigorously push for closer cooperation and partnerships with advanced carriers around the world for its global growth ambitions

Equally exiting for CZ will be the official opening of the grand new Beijing Daxing International Airport in fall this year, where CZ will be anchored as a coveted major tenant, enabling it to pursue its long-dreamed-of Guangzhou-Beijing dual-hub strategy in a real solid sense for the first time

Fleet-wise, CZ will also start to take delivery of its 1st batch of A350s in the middle of the year

And there’ll be so much more for discussion in a year of great promise, and of course challenge as well, for CZ ahead indeed :D

So here is the opening post:

CAAC just posted the 1st public notice of route applications for 2019 on its website this afternoon on Jan 2nd (http://www.caac.gov.cn/PHONE/XXGK_17/XX ... 404572.pdf),
showing China Southern proposing for the following service from July 2019:

3 weekly Guangzhou—Milan
3 weekly Shenzhen—Rome
4th weekly Guangzhou—Rome


So Italy has become the lastest target on CZ’s radar for global expansion out of CAN

Kudos!
 
Obzerva
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:55 am

How many aircraft do CZ have in the SkyTeam livery that'll need repainting?
 
c933103
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:05 am

Milan was part of the 30 route announced by CAN airport last year. How many of those routes will be served by Cz?
This is a placeholder.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:37 am

c933103 wrote:
Milan was part of the 30 route announced by CAN airport last year. How many of those routes will be served by Cz?

According to ftnnews.com, 21 will be operated by CZ.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:51 am

After QR stake as mention on previous thread, I wonder if EK will have a codeshare with CZ soon. Because EK has no partner in China yet and QR just started with CZ and EY does with MU. Plus, What about it’s partnership with its ST members including MU and MF, when will it concluded?
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019y

Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:52 am

Obzerva wrote:
How many aircraft do CZ have in the SkyTeam livery that'll need repainting?

More than 10
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
chonetsao
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:51 pm

SQ789 wrote:
After QR stake as mention on previous thread, I wonder if EK will have a codeshare with CZ soon. Because EK has no partner in China yet and QR just started with CZ and EY does with MU. Plus, What about it’s partnership with its ST members including MU and MF, when will it concluded?


Xiamen will stay in Skyteam as far as we can tell.

However, whether it will be renewed or not once the renewal date is up, would depends on whether China Southern still holds a major stake in Xiamen or not.
 
c933103
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:45 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Milan was part of the 30 route announced by CAN airport last year. How many of those routes will be served by Cz?

According to ftnnews.com, 21 will be operated by CZ.

21 new CZ route and 9 other routes
The article named 12 CZ routes and 4 non-CZ routes
That also cover covered 10 Europe/America long haul route out of 14 announced.
Casablanca, Sao Paulo, Saint Petersburg are some other mentioned cities of destinations by other report.
S7's new Irkutsk to Guangzhou service probably count toward this too
CZ also mentioned Argentina in the next few years previously
Where else was mentioned?
This is a placeholder.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:18 am

QuawerAir wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:

Meanwhile CZ’s other proposals CAN-HEL, CAN-IKA are absent from the list, suggesting the two got denied for reasons unknown to the public


CAPA wrote on 21 November 2018 that CAAC granted approval to these two routes. Airlineroute also on 20 November that wrote that CAAC "intends to approve" these routes. If that's incorrect, I hope the absence of the routes from the list means that CAAC hasn't approved the routes yet but hasn't either denied them.

CAN-HEL and CAN-IKA were also the only two routes that didn't have specified aircraft type in the application. Could that be the reason if they got denied meaning that the aircraft type should be given to get the approval?


QuawerAir, you were so right on that in last year’s thread China Southern plots global growth from Guangzhou and Beijing viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1404071

And I was glad to have been proven wrong there

As per CAAC’s notice on Jan 4 (http://www.caac.gov.cn/PHONE/XXGK_17/XX ... 574927.pdf), China Southern has secured approval for its proposed 7x weekly CAN-HEL/IKA service both

CAN-HEL would surely be a significant route for CZ in its growing European network given that CZ, being unaligned for the moment, is forging ever closer cooperation and partnership with OW member Finnair that is also targeting expansion in Asia

Congrats to CZ
 
oskarclare
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:55 am

Would more flights to BNE from CAN be on the horizon for CZ? BNE loads seem to be growing every month with great load factors (I do know this doesn’t mean profits and yields).
 
sunbus617
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:27 pm

oskarclare wrote:
Would more flights to BNE from CAN be on the horizon for CZ? BNE loads seem to be growing every month with great load factors (I do know this doesn’t mean profits and yields).

You've answered your own question. Let's wait till after Chinese New Year and see how the loads go... I can tell you they are one of the few carriers in the AU market that use dynamic fare pricing- goof for the pax- very bad for yields. As you said... BNE loads SEEM. As that famous line from Twin Peaks goes, "The owls are not what they seem"...
 
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:02 pm

Here definitely a very interesting peek into a list of new international/intercontinental routes planned/studied by CZ for 2019, as per what appears to be an internal powerpoint presentation material circulated on Chinese social media
Image

Routes already determined to open:

CAN-TLV/HEL/MAD
BJS-IKA
SZX-FCO
URC-VIE
WUH-IST/NYC


Routes yet to be determined for opening

PVG-SYD/MEL
KMG-AKL
WUH-CDG
CGO-LON
CSX-NBO
CAN-MXP


PVG-SYD/MEL is particularly noteworthy. So CZ is considering intercontinental longhaul ops to Australia from PVG following CA's exit of the two routes in late March. Would CZ be able to secure the traffic rights necessary to start the services?

More importantly, the list clearly shows CZ is ramping up efforts in earnest to open intercontinental longhauls in its regional hubs (esp WUH) and even beyond (eg, KMG, traditionally the backyard of MU in southwestern China)

It'll be definitely intriguing to note how many of those links listed above would actually happen as the year 2019 unfolds
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:47 pm

Does someone know which B787-9s are 78W and which ones are 789?

Is there any tail by tail source for which A320 family aircraft are in the new A321 (32L), A320 (32C/32G), A319 (31C/31G) configs and the B737-800 configs (73M/73N/73Q/738/73K/73L/732) and the new B737-700 configs (73C/73D)?
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:00 am

Per CZ’s Weibo account (https://m.weibo.cn/1647687670/4332337422253653), China Southern and British Airways signed an MOU for closer cooperation in London on Jan 23rd. Both parties plan to expand codesharing and implement mutually beneficial FFP to enhance customer experience within 2019

Image

Obviously, one after another, CZ has been consistently chasing cooperation with representative OW
carriers following its announcement of leaving ST in mid-Nov 2018, first with AA, then with AY, this time BA. Who’ll be next? IB?

Let’s look forward to the early arrival of the day CZ becomes a full OW member :D
 
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:09 am

chonetsao wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
After QR stake as mention on previous thread, I wonder if EK will have a codeshare with CZ soon. Because EK has no partner in China yet and QR just started with CZ and EY does with MU. Plus, What about it’s partnership with its ST members including MU and MF, when will it concluded?


Xiamen will stay in Skyteam as far as we can tell.

However, whether it will be renewed or not once the renewal date is up, would depends on whether China Southern still holds a major stake in Xiamen or not.


I don't know if this is plausible, but perhaps MF could be CZ's "back door" in SkyTeam, giving CZ a seat at the table (especially given the CI/MU/CZ/MF intra-SkyTeam alliance) while CZ itself pursues other opportunities. I know that generally, subsidiaries follow their parent airlines out, but you never know, right?
 
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:27 pm

China Southern has now opened reservation for Guangzhou–Urumqi–Vienna route. Will be operated 3x weekly as of 18 June 2019.
Probably they'll announce other routes mentioned such as Helsinki and Madrid soon. Tel Aviv has already been announced to open on 2 April 2019.

Routesonline
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:55 pm

https://www.eturbonews.com/244437/china ... -agreement
China Southern Airlines and Emirates sign codeshare agreement

The Chinese cities covered by the codeshare agreement include Fuzhou, Chongqing, Kunming, Qingdao, Xiamen, Chengdu, Nanjing and Xi ‘an, while Emirates’ Middle East destinations such as Riyadh, Jeddah, Dammam, Muscat, Kuwait and Cairo, as well as some African destinations such as Seychelles and Lagos, are included

“Strengthening cooperation is the long-term strategy of China Southern,” said Han Wensheng, Chief Operating Officer, China Southern Air Holding Company. “Our codeshare partnership with Emirates signifies a key step for China Southern in the process of building new international partnerships.”

Image

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/chin ... mbly-line/
China Southern Airlines’ very first Airbus A350 has entered the final assembly line
Image
Image

https://m.sohu.com/a/297100010_610466/?pvid=000115_3w_a

Per its latest filing on Shanghai Stock Exchange, China Southern together with its affiliates currently operates a fleet of 844 aircraft (by Jan 2019), including 285 via purchase, 233 via finance leasing, 326 via operating leasing

Separately, for CZ, a new broom sweeps clean indeed. Following the appointment of a new CEO, who was transferred from MU with a background in accounting, two newly approved longhauls are rumored to have got axed due to cost-saving concerns, without specifying what the two routes exactly are

So if the rumor is true, what routes got axed? Is it MAD/HEL? TLV/IKA? Or any other ones?

More importantly, is this a precursor of any major change or even reverse in CZ’s strategy for global expansion in the name of “tightening the belt” that would have to render CZ far more conservative and cautious in its longhaul growth plans in coming years? Anyway, this just seems to not bode well. CZ’s future growth plans surely deserve close watch under new leadership
 
klakzky123
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:51 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
Per CZ’s Weibo account (https://m.weibo.cn/1647687670/4332337422253653), China Southern and British Airways signed an MOU for closer cooperation in London on Jan 23rd. Both parties plan to expand codesharing and implement mutually beneficial FFP to enhance customer experience within 2019

Image

Obviously, one after another, CZ has been consistently chasing cooperation with representative OW
carriers following its announcement of leaving ST in mid-Nov 2018, first with AA, then with AY, this time BA. Who’ll be next? IB?

Let’s look forward to the early arrival of the day CZ becomes a full OW member :D


I think if anything, all of CZ's moves suggest that they'll just stay out of alliances. CZ offers a commodity that everyone wants (a comprehensive Chinese route network). Leaving ST allowed CZ to form new partnerships with non-ST airlines but there appears to be no indication that CZ is planning to shed their existing key ST relationships. CZ is keeping the JV with AF/KL and all of the DL codeshares are still in effect. In fact, DL will start codesharing on the HND-CAN flight.

CZ is saving lots of money in fees to ST and now has the freedom to pursue any relationship that it wants. I dont understand why they would join OW. Alliances as a concept don't make sense any more. They were started in an era before joint ventures when cooperation primarily existed in the form of interline agreements. Airlines now form comprehensive partnerships without relying on an alliance or any other governing structure. And all of the integrated IT systems that alliances were supposed to provide never materialized.

As an example, I fly on Delta, AF, KL, VS, and VA. Skyteam isn't required for any of those. DL has independent partnerships in the form of JVs with all of those airlines. DL could leave ST tomorrow and nothing would really change. These relationships are the future of travel. Alliances will slowly decay as more airlines catch on to this reality.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:07 am

Does anyone have any news on the proposed China Southern route between Zhengzhou and London Heathrow. They got permission and slots to start in April 2019 but not heard anything since
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:06 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
Separately, for CZ, a new broom sweeps clean indeed. Following the appointment of a new CEO, who was transferred from MU with a background in accounting, two newly approved longhauls are rumored to have got axed due to cost-saving concerns, without specifying what the two routes exactly are

So if the rumor is true, what routes got axed? Is it MAD/HEL? TLV/IKA? Or any other ones?

I hope deeply that HEL is not axed since I was looking forward to seeing CZ at HEL.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:42 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
Separately, for CZ, a new broom sweeps clean indeed. Following the appointment of a new CEO, who was transferred from MU with a background in accounting, two newly approved longhauls are rumored to have got axed due to cost-saving concerns, without specifying what the two routes exactly are

So if the rumor is true, what routes got axed? Is it MAD/HEL? TLV/IKA? Or any other ones?

I hope deeply that HEL is not axed since I was looking forward to seeing CZ at HEL.


HEL was one of the destinations that made the least sense in the first place so I would be surprised if it wasn't the other axed route.
 
B1168
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:05 am

Rumored: TLV is surely cut; one of MAD/HEL/MXP will be lost as well. Rip.
Also, A359 MSN318 (1st CZ359) will be in standard livery. Hopefully (though extremely unlikely) that is just a retro.
 
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019y

Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:50 am

SQ789 wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
How many aircraft do CZ have in the SkyTeam livery that'll need repainting?

More than 10

Airbus A320-232
B-1696
B-1697
B-6398
B-6553
B-6578

Airbus A330-223
B-6528
B-5928

Airbus A330-323
B-5970

Boeing 737-81B
B-2693
B-5469
B-5640

Boeing 777-31B(ER)
B-2049

Feel free to correct/ add.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
downdata
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:57 am

klakzky123 wrote:

As an example, I fly on Delta, AF, KL, VS, and VA. Skyteam isn't required for any of those. DL has independent partnerships in the form of JVs with all of those airlines. DL could leave ST tomorrow and nothing would really change. These relationships are the future of travel. Alliances will slowly decay as more airlines catch on to this reality.


Alright, the next time i fly CAN-SYD ticketed by CZ im just gonna waltz into the CZ first lounge with a QF plat card and give them the speech about how the concept of alliance is outdated and QF doesnt fly this route hence i should be allowed entry.

I mean its great that your flying pattern and the location of your home port means you can benefit from airline partnerships more than alliances but i’d think that is the exception and not the rule today for most people.
 
Maliyanwalto
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:46 am

Hello,
I’m guessing that the rumour from over a year ago that China Southern was looking at Canberra was of limited substance? I really can’t see it happening any time in the near future, even though a couple of times a week service may well work!
Keep smilin’
Maliyanwalto
 
B1168
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:56 am

Maliyanwalto wrote:
Hello,
I’m guessing that the rumour from over a year ago that China Southern was looking at Canberra was of limited substance? I really can’t see it happening any time in the near future, even though a couple of times a week service may well work!
Keep smilin’
Maliyanwalto


Don’t think there is any news about it recently. With the new leadership of “enduring”, unlikely to happen anytime soon as well.
Canberra indeed is a niche, but most transfer market has already gone to SIN. Similar issues apply to OOL and DRW.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:09 am

B1168 wrote:
Rumored: TLV is surely cut; one of MAD/HEL/MXP will be lost as well. Rip.
Also, A359 MSN318 (1st CZ359) will be in standard livery. Hopefully (though extremely unlikely) that is just a retro.

Yeah, seems to be TLV at least. I tried to book flights from CAN to TLV and no direct flights appeared in the booking system. I didn't expect it to be Tel Aviv though as it was already announced to open on April 2.

I believe the axed routes will be back in the future.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
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Zoedyn
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:52 pm

Per a CZ statement today Feb 28th ( (http://m.data.eastmoney.com/notices/det ... 1300931660) , subject to governmental approval, CZ is to make an adjustment of its 77W order with Boeing by switching two 77W passenger jets to two B777 freighters in response to changes at pax/freight markets

CZ previously ordered 8 Boeing 77Ws in 2017, which were scheduled for delivery during 2019-2020
Image

Separately, regarding all the newly approved routes for CZ in recent months, the only one that is sure to happen is CAN-URC-VIE starting from June 18th, already bookable (See China Southern Connects Austria’s Capital to Guangzhou and Ürümqi)

Seems it’s not just two routes axed. News from the lastest 南航2019夏秋航季航线产品推介会CZ Routes Promotion Conference for 2019 Summer/Fall Seasons seems somewhat disappointing as no other new international longhaul was mentioned at all except CAN-URC-VIE, which might well mean HEL/MAD/TLV/IKA all are simply off the table in the upcoming peak travel season this year

klakzky123 wrote:

I think if anything, all of CZ's moves suggest that they'll just stay out of alliances. CZ offers a commodity that everyone wants (a comprehensive Chinese route network). Leaving ST allowed CZ to form new partnerships with non-ST airlines but there appears to be no indication that CZ is planning to shed their existing key ST relationships. CZ is keeping the JV with AF/KL and all of the DL codeshares are still in effect. In fact, DL will start codesharing on the HND-CAN flight.

CZ is saving lots of money in fees to ST and now has the freedom to pursue any relationship that it wants. I dont understand why they would join OW. Alliances as a concept don't make sense any more. They were started in an era before joint ventures when cooperation primarily existed in the form of interline agreements. Airlines now form comprehensive partnerships without relying on an alliance or any other governing structure. And all of the integrated IT systems that alliances were supposed to provide never materialized.


I am not sure whether CZ would choose to stay out of any alliance forever given the domestic Chinese environment CZ is rooted in, but I agree fully with your observations and analysis of the trends going on in global aviation today, echoing what OW chief executive Rob Gurney has said here — OW has always been “very flexible” in allowing members to partner with airlines outside the grouping, “We recognise that we’re the smallest alliance and we recognised a long time ago that to try and force all members to work exclusively with other Oneworld members is just impractical.”(See: Oneworld not in 'active discussions' with China Southern)

The bottom line here I think we all can agree with: leaving ST is already improving and will continue to improve the lot of CZ so much more than otherwise unhappily staying in that alliance


QuawerAir wrote:
I hope deeply that HEL is not axed since I was looking forward to seeing CZ at HEL.


My deep hope too

But TBH, I am seriously wondering and starting to worry whether CZ’s going global strategy as charted under the excellent leadership of former CEO Mr Tan Wangeng might suffer badly as the accountant-turned new CEO Mr Ma Xulun is reportedly noted for his penny-pinching shrewdness (See: China Southern CEO transferred to be COMAC’s vice Party boss), plus his decade-long, characteristically conservative track record with MU
 
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:30 pm

On its Weibo account, China Southern (https://weibo.com/317130888?is_all=1) released a couple of computer renderings of the livery for its upcoming A350s, meaning the recent warmly received livery design contest CZ launched online came to nothing

The intended livery has obviously come as a great disappointment to a good many of CZ's Weibo followers, who seem to find it particularly hard to accept the decades-old, unchanging cheatlines seen again in the livery, which have long been an object of ridicule among a younger generation of Chinese flying public with a noted nickname as "socialist waistlines" for being a legacy from socialist-era aesthetics in the old days

Image
Image

I do wish CZ could get a livery rebrand to embrace a new era
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:39 pm

Does anyone know why I don't have access to CAAC anymore? The page only displays "No backend servers available". About one week ago, I still was able to see the website.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:39 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Does anyone know why I don't have access to CAAC anymore? The page only displays "No backend servers available". About one week ago, I still was able to see the website.

Never mind, I found another way to see the content.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:11 pm

Im guessing therefore China Southern will not be launching Zhengzhou to London (they had rights for April 2019).

Does anyone know if they are still wanting to launch Beijing Daxing to London from September 2019?
 
LIPZ
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:16 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
4th weekly Guangzhou—Rome

Just confirmed through GDS eff from 26JUN
That brings the total to Rome to daily, also considering CAN-WUH-FCO which operates 3 times per week.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:53 pm

What does the "tulip" on the v. stab. in CZ's livery mean?
 
B1168
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:20 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
What does the "tulip" on the v. stab. in CZ's livery mean?


That is kapok, the city flower of Guangzhou. Unfortunately, their design just look like some large red Chinese cabbage misplaced.
 
B1168
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:23 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
Im guessing therefore China Southern will not be launching Zhengzhou to London (they had rights for April 2019).

Does anyone know if they are still wanting to launch Beijing Daxing to London from September 2019?


They applied for PVG-LHR along with (either addition or new service) CA, MU,HO. I am quite sure that at least some of them can’t work (absolutely no way to absorb 3 extra daily worth of capacity), though. Rumors for PKX-LHR have existed, but no official clearances are granted yet.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:35 pm

B1168 wrote:
SeanM1997 wrote:
Im guessing therefore China Southern will not be launching Zhengzhou to London (they had rights for April 2019).

Does anyone know if they are still wanting to launch Beijing Daxing to London from September 2019?


They applied for PVG-LHR along with (either addition or new service) CA, MU,HO. I am quite sure that at least some of them can’t work (absolutely no way to absorb 3 extra daily worth of capacity), though. Rumors for PKX-LHR have existed, but no official clearances are granted yet.


Still no news on LHR-CGO?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019y

Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:48 pm

juliuswong wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
How many aircraft do CZ have in the SkyTeam livery that'll need repainting?

More than 10

Airbus A320-232
B-1696
B-1697
B-6398
B-6553
B-6578

Airbus A330-223
B-6528
B-5928

Airbus A330-323
B-5970

Boeing 737-81B
B-2693
B-5469
B-5640

Boeing 777-31B(ER)
B-2049

Feel free to correct/ add.

One correction - B-5928 is an A333 (A330-323) not -223. Others are correct AFAIK.

B1168 wrote:
Maliyanwalto wrote:
Hello,
I’m guessing that the rumour from over a year ago that China Southern was looking at Canberra was of limited substance? I really can’t see it happening any time in the near future, even though a couple of times a week service may well work!
Keep smilin’
Maliyanwalto


Don’t think there is any news about it recently. With the new leadership of “enduring”, unlikely to happen anytime soon as well.
Canberra indeed is a niche, but most transfer market has already gone to SIN. Similar issues apply to OOL and DRW.

Forget about CBR, they are rumoured to have lost $223 million AUD in Australian routes alone for 2018 - and hence the reduced frequency even in summer periods (CZ601/2 operating in a reduced length, cuts to regular frequencies in both MEL/SYD, etc) CZ is not even operating full 14x weekly frequency to both MEL/SYD at this moment.

Michael
 
WPvsMW
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:29 pm

B1168 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
What does the "tulip" on the v. stab. in CZ's livery mean?


That is kapok, the city flower of Guangzhou. Unfortunately, their design just look like some large red Chinese cabbage misplaced.


Wow... it's Bombax ceiba. I would never have guessed.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:04 am

Indeed, no word of any other new intercontinental routes announced and confirmed to happen except CAN-URC-VIE, even though CZ secured the traffic rights for them like CAN-IKA/HEL/TLV/MAD

As for CAN-FCO, that is simply not a new route given it’s merely a 4th weekly addition

Regarding CGO-LON, I am not sure whether CZ has even secured the traffic rights yet, as filings I found on CAAC show the route was listed as a proposal only with no further news of its confirmation of being approved, indicating the proposal either failed in getting approval or is still in the process of further evaluation by CAAC

Anyway, things with CZ as they stand now surely look somewhat depressing and worrisome to me

Even in the most recent eye-catching route applications for Daxing/PKX, where the carrier is to be an anchor tenant, CZ was conspicuously absent in the list of carriers that had applied for any route when JD, MU, MF were all there (Even its subsidiary MF had one proposal only, ie, PKX-PUS whereas JD had 5, MU 4). Which of course was highly unusual given the tremendous importance CZ has always reportedly attached to the new facility, and rightfully so

Maybe CZ is really morale challenged at the moment due to the abrupt blow from the unwelcoming leadership change imposed by some forces that felt uncomfortable and scared at CZ’s global ambitions mapped by its previous outstanding CEO Mr Tan Wangeng?
Last edited by Zoedyn on Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:08 am

China Southern has finally obtained route authority for its proposed 3x weekly CGO-LON, and twice weekly CAN-MXP, as per latest List of new CAAC route approvals released this afternoon Mar 12th

Worth noting whether CZ is really interested to start CGO-LON considering that its new leadership is clearly more preoccupied with cost control than any expansion plans, with a couple of previously approved routes widely rumored to have been axed
 
SeanM1997
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:00 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
China Southern has finally obtained route authority for its proposed 3x weekly CGO-LON, and twice weekly CAN-MXP, as per latest List of new CAAC route approvals released this afternoon Mar 12th

Worth noting whether CZ is really interested to start CGO-LON considering that its new leadership is clearly more preoccupied with cost control than any expansion plans, with a couple of previously approved routes widely rumored to have been axed


I think it will all depend if they have obtained slots at Heathrow. If they have and don't use them then they will lose them. Do they want to risk losing slots? Probably not
 
B1168
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:43 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
China Southern has finally obtained route authority for its proposed 3x weekly CGO-LON, and twice weekly CAN-MXP, as per latest List of new CAAC route approvals released this afternoon Mar 12th

Worth noting whether CZ is really interested to start CGO-LON considering that its new leadership is clearly more preoccupied with cost control than any expansion plans, with a couple of previously approved routes widely rumored to have been axed


As of now, there is absolutely no news on MAD,HEL and TLV. Based on Accountant Ma’s record (the nickname of that new leader), I highly anticipate that at least 2 of them go to waste.
Also, I anticipate that WUH-IST/L and WUH-JFK (both applies months ago) go to trash can alike.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:51 pm

B1168 wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
China Southern has finally obtained route authority for its proposed 3x weekly CGO-LON, and twice weekly CAN-MXP, as per latest List of new CAAC route approvals released this afternoon Mar 12th

Worth noting whether CZ is really interested to start CGO-LON considering that its new leadership is clearly more preoccupied with cost control than any expansion plans, with a couple of previously approved routes widely rumored to have been axed


As of now, there is absolutely no news on MAD,HEL and TLV. Based on Accountant Ma’s record (the nickname of that new leader), I highly anticipate that at least 2 of them go to waste.
Also, I anticipate that WUH-IST/L and WUH-JFK (both applies months ago) go to trash can alike.

Since AY and CZ are starting a codeshare agreement and "strategic partnership", I don't know whether it's likely or not that HEL is out of CZ's table:
  1. AY already operates to CAN and therefore CZ may think they don't have to serve HEL as they get feed from AY.
    but,
  2. They might consider the route to HEL a significant one given the partnership with Finnair.
Unfortunately, we'll probably not going to be informed by China Southern about which routes are cut and which not.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
B1168
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:57 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
B1168 wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
China Southern has finally obtained route authority for its proposed 3x weekly CGO-LON, and twice weekly CAN-MXP, as per latest List of new CAAC route approvals released this afternoon Mar 12th

Worth noting whether CZ is really interested to start CGO-LON considering that its new leadership is clearly more preoccupied with cost control than any expansion plans, with a couple of previously approved routes widely rumored to have been axed


As of now, there is absolutely no news on MAD,HEL and TLV. Based on Accountant Ma’s record (the nickname of that new leader), I highly anticipate that at least 2 of them go to waste.
Also, I anticipate that WUH-IST/L and WUH-JFK (both applies months ago) go to trash can alike.

Since AY and CZ are starting a codeshare agreement and "strategic partnership", I don't know whether it's likely or not that HEL is out of CZ's table:
  1. AY already operates to CAN and therefore CZ may think they don't have to serve HEL as they get feed from AY.
    but,
  2. They might consider the route to HEL a significant one given the partnership with Finnair.
Unfortunately, we'll probably not going to be informed by China Southern about which routes are cut and which not.


I personally would rather let AY get that CAN going yearound and let AY enjoy convenient (relatively, excluding HKG and SIN) transfer to SE Asia and Australia. If there is no need that CZ starts a new flight, based on the conservative behavior of Mr.Ma, that will be unlikely to happen.
Note: I would personally like to see AY entering WUH or CZ flying HEL from URC in narrowbodies, but WUH is a bit too small in size, while URC-HEL In narrowbody would be hellish if done using regionally configured NBs.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:10 pm

B1168 wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
B1168 wrote:

As of now, there is absolutely no news on MAD,HEL and TLV. Based on Accountant Ma’s record (the nickname of that new leader), I highly anticipate that at least 2 of them go to waste.
Also, I anticipate that WUH-IST/L and WUH-JFK (both applies months ago) go to trash can alike.

Since AY and CZ are starting a codeshare agreement and "strategic partnership", I don't know whether it's likely or not that HEL is out of CZ's table:
  1. AY already operates to CAN and therefore CZ may think they don't have to serve HEL as they get feed from AY.
    but,
  2. They might consider the route to HEL a significant one given the partnership with Finnair.
Unfortunately, we'll probably not going to be informed by China Southern about which routes are cut and which not.


I personally would rather let AY get that CAN going yearound and let AY enjoy convenient (relatively, excluding HKG and SIN) transfer to SE Asia and Australia. If there is no need that CZ starts a new flight, based on the conservative behavior of Mr.Ma, that will be unlikely to happen.
Note: I would personally like to see AY entering WUH or CZ flying HEL from URC in narrowbodies, but WUH is a bit too small in size, while URC-HEL In narrowbody would be hellish if done using regionally configured NBs.

If CZ canceled planned HEL-CAN service I indeed hope AY will make CAN year-round (and maybe even daily?). And as you said, I'd also like to see AY in Wuhan (in 2011 they said they considered it, I think).
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
EddieDude
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:50 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
The intended livery has obviously come as a great disappointment to a good many of CZ's Weibo followers, who seem to find it particularly hard to accept the decades-old, unchanging cheatlines seen again in the livery, which have long been an object of ridicule among a younger generation of Chinese flying public with a noted nickname as "socialist waistlines" for being a legacy from socialist-era aesthetics in the old days

Hehehe. Compared to the livery of MU, CZ's livery is a total beauty haha. I don't mind the cheatlines, in fact I like them. I do agree the flower on the tail is hideous though. They should restyle it.
Upcoming flights:
May: AM MEX-CUN 73H (Y), AM CUN-MEX 73W (Y).
August: KL MEX-AMS 74M (J), KQ AMS-NBO 788 (J).
 
B1168
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:23 pm

EddieDude wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
The intended livery has obviously come as a great disappointment to a good many of CZ's Weibo followers, who seem to find it particularly hard to accept the decades-old, unchanging cheatlines seen again in the livery, which have long been an object of ridicule among a younger generation of Chinese flying public with a noted nickname as "socialist waistlines" for being a legacy from socialist-era aesthetics in the old days

Hehehe. Compared to the livery of MU, CZ's livery is a total beauty haha. I don't mind the cheatlines, in fact I like them. I do agree the flower on the tail is hideous though. They should restyle it.


Sir, it is your right to appreciate it, but well, people just call the elegant 787 livery an “incident” for 350’s cheatlines. Honestly, that cheat line makes a nice retro livery.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2200
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:04 am

Zoedyn wrote:
On its Weibo account, China Southern (https://weibo.com/317130888?is_all=1) released a couple of computer renderings of the livery for its upcoming A350s, meaning the recent warmly received livery design contest CZ launched online came to nothing

The intended livery has obviously come as a great disappointment to a good many of CZ's Weibo followers, who seem to find it particularly hard to accept the decades-old, unchanging cheatlines seen again in the livery, which have long been an object of ridicule among a younger generation of Chinese flying public with a noted nickname as "socialist waistlines" for being a legacy from socialist-era aesthetics in the old days

Image
Image

I do wish CZ could get a livery rebrand to embrace a new era


Socialist Waistline - that’s a fantastic term!! I love it.

I do think CZ needs a major brand overhaul, for international markets its comes with connotations of old China - not hospitality. They are well over due for a brand refresh and alignment. In Australia their advertisements are often technically correct English (or sometimes incorrect) but very awkward and don’t do anything to enhance the brand. They need some serious polish offshore, and brand work.
 
B1168
Posts: 491
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Re: China Southern Network/Fleet/Going Global Discussion - 2019

Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:32 am

smi0006 wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
On its Weibo account, China Southern (https://weibo.com/317130888?is_all=1) released a couple of computer renderings of the livery for its upcoming A350s, meaning the recent warmly received livery design contest CZ launched online came to nothing

The intended livery has obviously come as a great disappointment to a good many of CZ's Weibo followers, who seem to find it particularly hard to accept the decades-old, unchanging cheatlines seen again in the livery, which have long been an object of ridicule among a younger generation of Chinese flying public with a noted nickname as "socialist waistlines" for being a legacy from socialist-era aesthetics in the old days

Image
Image

I do wish CZ could get a livery rebrand to embrace a new era


Socialist Waistline - that’s a fantastic term!! I love it.

I do think CZ needs a major brand overhaul, for international markets its comes with connotations of old China - not hospitality. They are well over due for a brand refresh and alignment. In Australia their advertisements are often technically correct English (or sometimes incorrect) but very awkward and don’t do anything to enhance the brand. They need some serious polish offshore, and brand work.


When you go to everywhere (excluding OOL) your foe goes to in the region but you don’t offer local language service nicely, so you lose 2 million AUs last year (honestly due to subsidies-based competition) just to Australia...
Also when your 32Q is feared like a tortune machine found in 9C, and is recommended to “avoid at all cost”...
Also when your European expansion gets bisected...
Also when your transpacific routes remain ungrown for years despite 90%+ LF constantly and even gets downgraded...
Also when your brand is criticized for ugliness like LY’s 789 in retro livery...
Also when you sabotage your 777-300ER so that they have excessive seats and insufficient range for them to go anywhere...
Also when your homebase enemy’s LCC subsidies offer WiFi service for purchase on NBs while you only have a handful of a WiFi capable planes that limit 20MB worth of data per passenger, and you need to request that prior to departure...

CZ: here I am

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