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jplatts
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:29 pm

There is an article that said that WN is expected to cancel 737 MAX flight past October 1st, and that article can be found at https://finance.yahoo.com/news/southwest-expects-boeing-737-max-191458938.html.

Are there used 737-700's or 737-800's that could be acquired by WN in order to alleviate the plane shortages that it is facing as a result of 737 MAX groundings? Will Boeing resume production of additional 737NG planes to address plane shortages that WN and others are facing as a result of the 737 MAX grounding?
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:38 pm

Sadly SWA has done little to make up for the 34 MAX’s that are parked. They have made no plans to secure other aircraft and are not even using their existing fleet wisely. N772SW has been sitting in VCV for 14 months ready to return to service and yet it just sits. This aircraft was not to blame for the unfortunate accident—it was an engine problem and not an aircraft issue. So we SWA customers continue to be inconvenienced as for example my HOU to OAK flight that was scheduled to leave at 10.30 AM was cancelled and they threw me on a 6:35 AM flight. SWA should be securing additional aircraft and using all their fleet!
 
peak86
Posts: 30
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:47 pm

n471wn wrote:
Sadly SWA has done little to make up for the 34 MAX’s that are parked. They have made no plans to secure other aircraft and are not even using their existing fleet wisely. N772SW has been sitting in VCV for 14 months ready to return to service and yet it just sits. This aircraft was not to blame for the unfortunate accident—it was an engine problem and not an aircraft issue. So we SWA customers continue to be inconvenienced as for example my HOU to OAK flight that was scheduled to leave at 10.30 AM was cancelled and they threw me on a 6:35 AM flight. SWA should be securing additional aircraft and using all their fleet!


Ok - don't necessarily disagree on securing other aircraft, but would 772 even make a dent in the amount of cancellations they've had? I doubt it... an extra 5-8 ops per day out of the 120+ that are being cancelled barely makes a difference.

Plus - 737s are hard to come by at the moment. Unless somebody were to buy SY...
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:08 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Looks like the next schedule release has been pushed back from July 10 to August 8.

Last time they moved it back up a bit but we will see what happens this time. Probably waiting for more clarity with the MAX


I believe July 29 the EU supposed to come out with it's safety and training requirements for the MAX Return to service. The FAA wants to be in agreement with the rest of the world Aviation before it releases it's official guidance.

Some are already speculating a April-June 2020 before they returned the aircraft to service if SIM time is required.

WN schedules including Hawaii additions are in a limbo schedule until then.

Flyguy


That would make some sense on the pushback then. If they want to see what happens with that first.
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:41 am

peak86 wrote:
n471wn wrote:
Sadly SWA has done little to make up for the 34 MAX’s that are parked. They have made no plans to secure other aircraft and are not even using their existing fleet wisely. N772SW has been sitting in VCV for 14 months ready to return to service and yet it just sits. This aircraft was not to blame for the unfortunate accident—it was an engine problem and not an aircraft issue. So we SWA customers continue to be inconvenienced as for example my HOU to OAK flight that was scheduled to leave at 10.30 AM was cancelled and they threw me on a 6:35 AM flight. SWA should be securing additional aircraft and using all their fleet!


Ok - don't necessarily disagree on securing other aircraft, but would 772 even make a dent in the amount of cancellations they've had? I doubt it... an extra 5-8 ops per day out of the 120+ that are being cancelled barely makes a difference.

Plus - 737s are hard to come by at the moment. Unless somebody were to buy SY...


Actually about 120 800’s are in storage and about 50 700’s so I am sure SWA could find a few
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:28 am

n471wn wrote:
peak86 wrote:
n471wn wrote:
Sadly SWA has done little to make up for the 34 MAX’s that are parked. They have made no plans to secure other aircraft and are not even using their existing fleet wisely. N772SW has been sitting in VCV for 14 months ready to return to service and yet it just sits. This aircraft was not to blame for the unfortunate accident—it was an engine problem and not an aircraft issue. So we SWA customers continue to be inconvenienced as for example my HOU to OAK flight that was scheduled to leave at 10.30 AM was cancelled and they threw me on a 6:35 AM flight. SWA should be securing additional aircraft and using all their fleet!


Ok - don't necessarily disagree on securing other aircraft, but would 772 even make a dent in the amount of cancellations they've had? I doubt it... an extra 5-8 ops per day out of the 120+ that are being cancelled barely makes a difference.

Plus - 737s are hard to come by at the moment. Unless somebody were to buy SY...


Actually about 120 800’s are in storage and about 50 700’s so I am sure SWA could find a few


In theory, it's possible, but it's not like someone from WN can go to an "airplane store" with the intent to pick up, say 30 738s and put them into service immediately the way you and I could go to a new car dealership and drive off the lot with a Chevy Impala, for example. It's not clear whether or not those 170-or-so 737s are airworthy and even if they were, it'd likely take several weeks, if not months, before they can be retrofit to meet WN specs. Granted, we don't know if - or when - the 3M8s will be airworthy, but I'd venture that WN isn't the only operator out there which could potentially be looking for some used - and airworthy - 737s.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
WNCrew
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:24 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
it'd likely take several weeks, if not months, before they can be retrofit to meet WN specs. Granted, we don't know if - or when - the 3M8s will be airworthy, but I'd venture that WN isn't the only operator out there which could potentially be looking for some used - and airworthy - 737s.



I don't think they'd care if they were "to spec"... at least not in the cabin. In my time here we've flown several 737-700's that had VERY non-WN interior configurations (different # of seats, galleys, lavs, closets, equipment etc etc) for months! Some weren't even painted in WN colors.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SXDFC
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:55 pm

n471wn wrote:
Sadly SWA has done little to make up for the 34 MAX’s that are parked. They have made no plans to secure other aircraft and are not even using their existing fleet wisely. N772SW has been sitting in VCV for 14 months ready to return to service and yet it just sits. This aircraft was not to blame for the unfortunate accident—it was an engine problem and not an aircraft issue. So we SWA customers continue to be inconvenienced as for example my HOU to OAK flight that was scheduled to leave at 10.30 AM was cancelled and they threw me on a 6:35 AM flight. SWA should be securing additional aircraft and using all their fleet!



N772SW will NEVER return to service..

I’d LUV to know the results of when WN kicked the tires on those A220-300s a few months ago..
 
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sunking737
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:08 am

IIRC it takes a month to bring a plane up to each airlines standards. SY 's 3 new took a month each at AAR @RFD
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:12 am

SXDFC wrote:
n471wn wrote:
Sadly SWA has done little to make up for the 34 MAX’s that are parked. They have made no plans to secure other aircraft and are not even using their existing fleet wisely. N772SW has been sitting in VCV for 14 months ready to return to service and yet it just sits. This aircraft was not to blame for the unfortunate accident—it was an engine problem and not an aircraft issue. So we SWA customers continue to be inconvenienced as for example my HOU to OAK flight that was scheduled to leave at 10.30 AM was cancelled and they threw me on a 6:35 AM flight. SWA should be securing additional aircraft and using all their fleet!



N772SW will NEVER return to service..

I’d LUV to know the results of when WN kicked the tires on those A220-300s a few months ago..


You are wrong as it will just like N471WN did
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:09 am

Isn't WN retired 737 classic in bulk because of pilot's rating issues (can't operate 3 generations of 737 at the same time),
those 737 should be able to resume to services with minimum efforts.

If the grounding will continue until 2020, it may be worth to call those classic back to services.
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:40 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
Isn't WN retired 737 classic in bulk because of pilot's rating issues (can't operate 3 generations of 737 at the same time),
those 737 should be able to resume to services with minimum efforts.

If the grounding will continue until 2020, it may be worth to call those classic back to services.


This isn't going to happen. It costs tons of $ to do this and the ones that were worth the trouble have already found new homes. Not viable not gonna happen.
 
SXDFC
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:30 am

n471wn wrote:
SXDFC wrote:
n471wn wrote:
Sadly SWA has done little to make up for the 34 MAX’s that are parked. They have made no plans to secure other aircraft and are not even using their existing fleet wisely. N772SW has been sitting in VCV for 14 months ready to return to service and yet it just sits. This aircraft was not to blame for the unfortunate accident—it was an engine problem and not an aircraft issue. So we SWA customers continue to be inconvenienced as for example my HOU to OAK flight that was scheduled to leave at 10.30 AM was cancelled and they threw me on a 6:35 AM flight. SWA should be securing additional aircraft and using all their fleet!



N772SW will NEVER return to service..

I’d LUV to know the results of when WN kicked the tires on those A220-300s a few months ago..


You are wrong as it will just like N471WN did


What makes you think it will return to service?
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2100
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:15 am

Have Heart livery repaints been completely shut down this summer due to the MAX grounding like UA has?
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:46 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Looks like the next schedule release has been pushed back from July 10 to August 8.

Last time they moved it back up a bit but we will see what happens this time. Probably waiting for more clarity with the MAX


Now August 15
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:52 pm

While WN currently has more planes in service than it did in Fall 2017 and Winter 2018 (even with the 737 MAX grounding), WN is still facing a plane shortage as WN has had to temporarily suspend some nonstop routes and reduce frequencies on other nonstop routes as a result of the 737 MAX grounding.

WN nonstop routes dropped since Fall 2017 (not including seasonal nonstop routes and temporary nonstop route suspensions arising from 737 MAX grounding):
ATL-DTW, ATL-MSP, AUS-SEA, BOS-IND, MDW-FNT, MDW-GEG, FLL-EWR, FLL-IAD, BDL-LAS, HOU-MEX, IND-EWR, IND-DCA, LAS-PHL, MKE-MSP, PDX-SFO, SNA-SFO

WN nonstop routes added since Fall 2017:
ABQ-SJC, ATL-BNA, AUS-RDU, AUS-SMF, BWI-GCM (Saturday-only), BWI-GSP, BOI-DAL (Saturday-only seasonal), BOI-SJC, BUR-MDW, BUR-HOU, BUR-BNA, CUN-CMH (Saturday-only seasonal), CUN-IND (Saturday-only seasonal), CUN-PIT (Saturday-only seasonal), CUN-RDU (Saturday-only seasonal), CUN-STL (Saturday-only), MDW-SJD (weekend-only seasonal), CVG-DEN, CVG-MCO (Saturday-only seasonal), CVG-PHX (seasonal), CLE-DAL (Sunday-only), CLE-FLL (Saturday-only seasonal), CLE-MKE, CMH-HOU, DAL-CRP (Saturday-only), DAL-MSP, DAL-SDF, DAL-PBI (Sunday-only seasonal), DEN-ELP, DEN-LBB, DEN-MEM, DEN-ORF (weekend-only seasonal), DEN-ECP (Saturday-only seasonal), FLL-SAT, BDL-STL, HNL-OGG, HNL-KOA, HNL-OAK, HNL-SJC, HOU-GCM (Saturday-only seasonal), HOU-LBB (Sunday-only seasonal), HOU-MKE, HOU-SDF, HOU-PHL, HOU-PUJ (Saturday-only seasonal), HOU-SJC, OGG-OAK, OGG-SJC, MCI-ECP (Saturday-only seasonal), IND-OAK (suspended due to 737 MAX grounding), LAX-TPA, MSP-OAK, MBJ-STL (Saturday-only seasonal), BNA-OKC (Sunday-only seasonal), BNA-OMA (Sunday-only seasonal), BNA-SJC, MSY-LGA, MSY-SMF, MSY-SJC, LGA-MCO (Saturday-only), OAK-MCO, OAK-SAT, OKC-DCA, ONT-SFO, MCO-SMF, MCO-SJC, MCO-TUL (Saturday-only seasonal), SMF-STL, SMF-SJD, STL-SLC, STL-SJC, SAN-TPA, SJC-SJD, SJC-GEG

WN likely needs to acquire more used 737-700's and 737-800's in order to address the plane shortage that it is facing as a result of the 737 MAX grounding.

UA has recently announced that it is acquiring a few more 737-700's in order to address the plane shortage that it is facing as a result of the 737 MAX grounding, but UA isn't as adversely affected as WN is due to UA having fewer 737 MAX planes in its fleet and UA having used A319's and used A320's on order.

AA will be facing a plane shortage this fall with the retirement of its last MD-80's and the 737 MAX grounding, but AA has a few more used A319's and some more new A321neo's on order.

While AS does have some 737 MAX's on order, AS also has some A319's, A320's, and A321neo's that it inherited through the AS-VX merger, and AS is also currently scheduled to take delivery of some A320neo's next year.

Unlike AA, UA, and AS who all have other narrowbody models on order, WN is in a worse situation with WN currently only having orders for 737 MAX 7 and 737 MAX 8 planes. WN must address the plane shortage issue arising from the 737 MAX grounding to remain competitive, especially if the 737 MAX grounding persists past February 2020.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:02 pm

Southwest is doing a pretty good job making it look like the MAX groundings aren't affecting them. The reality is much different, from a growth perspective they are heavily boxed in, with all their future growth coming from the MAX.

Want to see how management spins this next week, otherwise this seems like great news for AS.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:12 pm

They can start by putting N772SW back into service or selling it or trading it; but what a waste as it sits in Victorville. Gary and team bet on an early return of the MAX but apparently have no Plan B.
 
SXDFC
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:19 pm

n471wn wrote:
They can start by putting N772SW back into service or selling it or trading it; but what a waste as it sits in Victorville. Gary and team bet on an early return of the MAX but apparently have no Plan B.


What’s with your fixation on putting 772 back into service..
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:26 pm

SXDFC wrote:
n471wn wrote:
They can start by putting N772SW back into service or selling it or trading it; but what a waste as it sits in Victorville. Gary and team bet on an early return of the MAX but apparently have no Plan B.


What’s with your fixation on putting 772 back into service..


You call it a fixation and I call it an interest. Look at my moniker N471WN which I witnessed being rebuilt over the course of a year at MDW. We aviation Enthusiasts were thrilled when it went back into service. If you love these machines as so many of us do, then having a perfectly serviceable aircraft sit in the desert while your favorite airline is cancelling 180 flights per day makes no sense. Sorry you cannot understand this.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:36 pm

N772SW is at the end of it's life cycle.
Repair enough to Sale to a 3ed party.
But with WN high usage it almost do for a complete Costly overhaul.
Cheaper to let it sit and retire at this point.
As for MAX related 180 Daily cancellations has stopped now it's on a reduced rerelease schedule.
Any cancellations are part of the normal Unforeseen Weather/ATC or Unscheduled MX events.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
bob75013
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:06 pm

Earlier today WN pulled MAXs out of the schedule thru 11/2 - mirroring UA and AA
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:50 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
N772SW is at the end of it's life cycle.
Repair enough to Sale to a 3ed party.
But with WN high usage it almost do for a complete Costly overhaul.
Cheaper to let it sit and retire at this point.
As for MAX related 180 Daily cancellations has stopped now it's on a reduced rerelease schedule.
Any cancellations are part of the normal Unforeseen Weather/ATC or Unscheduled MX events.

Flyguy


Not true and where do I start? The aircraft that were delivered to SWA around the time that N772SW was have all been flying for the year and 3 months that 772 has been siting. They are much closer to retirement than is 772. And the repair to 772 was an easy one and was done at PAE.

To say it is cheaper to let an aircraft sit that still has hours/cycles to run is a nonsensical statement.

N700GS is the high time 700 and it is going strong—772 was delivered 70 aircraft after N700GS. Not sure why WN is sitting on their ass on this bird but your explanation is not the reason.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:28 pm

In addition to the 737 MAX 7 and 737 MAX 8 planes already on order, WN could order some Airbus A320neo planes with CFM LEAP-1A engines to replace some of its 737-700 planes. Having some A320neo's in WN's fleet would lessen the impacts of WN operations in the event that additional issues are discovered with the 737 MAX or its successor.

Is it possible for WN to have pilots that can fly the 737 NG, 737 MAX, and A320neo if the pilots have undergone the necessary training on all three of these models?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:34 pm

jplatts wrote:
In addition to the 737 MAX 7 and 737 MAX 8 planes already on order, WN could order some Airbus A320neo planes with CFM LEAP-1A engines to replace some of its 737-700 planes. Having some A320neo's in WN's fleet would lessen the impacts of WN operations in the event that additional issues are discovered with the 737 MAX or its successor.

Is it possible for WN to have pilots that can fly the 737 NG, 737 MAX, and A320neo if the pilots have undergone the necessary training on all three of these models?


Yikes, you might want to delete that post
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
mwmav8r01
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:41 pm

WNCrew wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
it'd likely take several weeks, if not months, before they can be retrofit to meet WN specs. Granted, we don't know if - or when - the 3M8s will be airworthy, but I'd venture that WN isn't the only operator out there which could potentially be looking for some used - and airworthy - 737s.



I don't think they'd care if they were "to spec"... at least not in the cabin. In my time here we've flown several 737-700's that had VERY non-WN interior configurations (different # of seats, galleys, lavs, closets, equipment etc etc) for months! Some weren't even painted in WN colors.



Good points. There are planes that werent in swa colors?

Also its not just looks and cabin... But cockpit equipment, furnishings and emergency equipment.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:45 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Yikes, you might want to delete that post


There are some former or current Boeing 737 operators such as AS, AA, DL, U2, F9, and UA that now operate Airbus A320 family aircraft. U2 and F9 now exclusively operate Airbus A320 family and A320neo family aircraft, whereas AS, AA, DL, and UA continue to operate both Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 family aircraft.

I was mentioning an Airbus A320neo order from WN as a possibility since some other current or former Boeing 737 operators have acquired Airbus A320 family aircraft.

WN must address the plane shortage resulting from the 737 MAX groundings in order to remain competitive. WN also has 737-700's that will need to be replaced during the next 10 years, and WN needs some additional new planes to replace its oldest 737-700's.
 
barney captain
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:19 pm

mwmav8r01 wrote:
WNCrew wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
it'd likely take several weeks, if not months, before they can be retrofit to meet WN specs. Granted, we don't know if - or when - the 3M8s will be airworthy, but I'd venture that WN isn't the only operator out there which could potentially be looking for some used - and airworthy - 737s.



I don't think they'd care if they were "to spec"... at least not in the cabin. In my time here we've flown several 737-700's that had VERY non-WN interior configurations (different # of seats, galleys, lavs, closets, equipment etc etc) for months! Some weren't even painted in WN colors.



Good points. There are planes that werent in swa colors?

Also its not just looks and cabin... But cockpit equipment, furnishings and emergency equipment.


True - it's much more about the cockpit than the cabin.

As far as mixed livery -

Image
Southeast Of Disorder
 
WaywardMemphian
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:59 am

jplatts wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Yikes, you might want to delete that post


There are some former or current Boeing 737 operators such as AS, AA, DL, U2, F9, and UA that now operate Airbus A320 family aircraft. U2 and F9 now exclusively operate Airbus A320 family and A320neo family aircraft, whereas AS, AA, DL, and UA continue to operate both Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 family aircraft.

I was mentioning an Airbus A320neo order from WN as a possibility since some other current or former Boeing 737 operators have acquired Airbus A320 family aircraft.

WN must address the plane shortage resulting from the 737 MAX groundings in order to remain competitive. WN also has 737-700's that will need to be replaced during the next 10 years, and WN needs some additional new planes to replace its oldest 737-700's.


I know nothing, but the A220 could do WN good IMO, especially for potential new markets(XNA,JAC,TYS) and/or existing smaller stations like TUL and MEM.
 
WN732
Posts: 815
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:23 am

mwmav8r01 wrote:
WNCrew wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
it'd likely take several weeks, if not months, before they can be retrofit to meet WN specs. Granted, we don't know if - or when - the 3M8s will be airworthy, but I'd venture that WN isn't the only operator out there which could potentially be looking for some used - and airworthy - 737s.



I don't think they'd care if they were "to spec"... at least not in the cabin. In my time here we've flown several 737-700's that had VERY non-WN interior configurations (different # of seats, galleys, lavs, closets, equipment etc etc) for months! Some weren't even painted in WN colors.



Good points. There are planes that werent in swa colors?

Also its not just looks and cabin... But cockpit equipment, furnishings and emergency equipment.


Yes there were 3 -700's from Ford Motor Co. that were purchased and put into service right away. They flew with their original owner's livery with Southwest slapped on the tail. Niether of them had winglets, even which the -300's were getting winglets around that time. That went on for some time until they could get them furnished and painted to SWA colors. That was somewhere around 2006/2007ish.

One of the registrations is N271LV.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:49 am

WaywardMemphian wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Yikes, you might want to delete that post


There are some former or current Boeing 737 operators such as AS, AA, DL, U2, F9, and UA that now operate Airbus A320 family aircraft. U2 and F9 now exclusively operate Airbus A320 family and A320neo family aircraft, whereas AS, AA, DL, and UA continue to operate both Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 family aircraft.

I was mentioning an Airbus A320neo order from WN as a possibility since some other current or former Boeing 737 operators have acquired Airbus A320 family aircraft.

WN must address the plane shortage resulting from the 737 MAX groundings in order to remain competitive. WN also has 737-700's that will need to be replaced during the next 10 years, and WN needs some additional new planes to replace its oldest 737-700's.


I know nothing, but the A220 could do WN good IMO, especially for potential new markets(XNA,JAC,TYS) and/or existing smaller stations like TUL and MEM.


WN is moving in the opposite direction, they are getting larger and larger aircraft.

I’m not even sure a new fleet type is even on the table. Having one fleet type saves WN an immense amount of money yearly.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:45 am

Midwestindy wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
jplatts wrote:

There are some former or current Boeing 737 operators such as AS, AA, DL, U2, F9, and UA that now operate Airbus A320 family aircraft. U2 and F9 now exclusively operate Airbus A320 family and A320neo family aircraft, whereas AS, AA, DL, and UA continue to operate both Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 family aircraft.

I was mentioning an Airbus A320neo order from WN as a possibility since some other current or former Boeing 737 operators have acquired Airbus A320 family aircraft.

WN must address the plane shortage resulting from the 737 MAX groundings in order to remain competitive. WN also has 737-700's that will need to be replaced during the next 10 years, and WN needs some additional new planes to replace its oldest 737-700's.


I know nothing, but the A220 could do WN good IMO, especially for potential new markets(XNA,JAC,TYS) and/or existing smaller stations like TUL and MEM.


WN is moving in the opposite direction, they are getting larger and larger aircraft.

I’m not even sure a new fleet type is even on the table. Having one fleet type saves WN an immense amount of money yearly.



They better find some way to expand the domestic options cause Frontier's parent Indigo Partners massive AB orders are going to pick off any periphery customers they have. Like the bleed they enjoy from XNA to TUL. I've seen this firat hand with my niece now booking Frontier to XNA when she comes home from Denver instead of flying Southwest to Tulsa. Hell, Frontier will even be getting the XLRs now. DEN/HNL via Frontier anyone? Better yet, who will be buying up Frontier's CEOs if they sell them. Allegaint? Then, there's Moxy and that is looking more and more likely.
 
bob75013
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:21 pm

jplatts wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Yikes, you might want to delete that post




WN must address the plane shortage resulting from the 737 MAX groundings in order to remain competitive. WN also has 737-700's that will need to be replaced during the next 10 years, and WN needs some additional new planes to replace its oldest 737-700's.


Since the Neo order book is pretty full, and it is likely that any order is going to be filled years down the road, how doesa NEOorder help WN with "the plane shortage resulting from the 737 MAX groundings?"
 
jplatts
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:03 pm

bob75013 wrote:
Since the Neo order book is pretty full, and it is likely that any order is going to be filled years down the road, how doesa NEOorder help WN with "the plane shortage resulting from the 737 MAX groundings?"


I understand that the A320neo order book is already pretty full, but WN still has 737-700's that will need to be replaced during the next 10 years.
 
bob75013
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:34 pm

jplatts wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
Since the Neo order book is pretty full, and it is likely that any order is going to be filled years down the road, how doesa NEOorder help WN with "the plane shortage resulting from the 737 MAX groundings?"


I understand that the A320neo order book is already pretty full, but WN still has 737-700's that will need to be replaced during the next 10 years.


Years from now with MA7s
 
IWMBH
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:47 pm

I think SWA just has to sit this one out, there are not that many NG's in storage and the ones who are probably take a while to get into service. New NG's are not an option because the delivery-time is far too long to make sense (see the KLM case). Hopefully for everyone the -MAX issues will be resolved in the coming months.
 
midway7
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:24 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:44 pm

AirFiero wrote:
I had been speculating whether the 6 new gates at SJC might have been built with one airline in mind, by request or with some kind of agreement. I assumed it might be AS, given that the sixth gate is ground boarding (no jetway) to be used for the Q400 or ERJ. Today I found my answer on the flysanjose website...

SJC will commission an Interim Gates Facility, attached to the south end of Terminal B, on June 13, 2019. New gates 31-35 will be turned over to Southwest Airlines after the event. Gate 36 will be operational by Nov. 1, 2019. As the initial airline to operate from the new facility, Southwest will co-locate its gates in Terminal B and enhance the overall passenger experience.

So does this mean WN will be ground boarding from the sixth gate? Seems odd.

Link to press release
https://flysanjose.com/sites/default/fi ... Valley.pdf


Arrived on a flight at Gate 35. At first I was a bit taken aback, as this is my first trip to Silicon Valley. Expected a more grand entrance. However, I do think the concept is brilliant. They built 5 ground level gates with jetways in such a way that they can fully operate while they eventually build the permanent concourse above them. It's no frills, but the concept does seem to make sense from a long term standpoint. Kind of reminds me of some of the temporary terminals at various airports back in the 80's and 90's when many were expanding.
 
n471wn
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:58 pm

Well folks truth is stranger than fiction. United Airlines is taking from WN 19 ex Air Tran 700 aircraft with deliveries starting end of this year. United outbid SWA for these GECAS 05-06 builds. Gary cut the deal before the MAX grounding; but can you imagine the PR nightmare that will ensue as SWA has to cut even more flights as these aircraft go to UAL. I am sure that Gary figured he could get MAX’s to replace them and that is even more true now as Boeing will be having a fire sale on MAX’s that carriers now do not want. But the longer the grounding goes the greater the risk. One thing is certain and that is that Gary has doubled down on the MAX.
 
WN732
Posts: 815
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:06 pm

n471wn wrote:
Well folks truth is stranger than fiction. United Airlines is taking from WN 19 ex Air Tran 700 aircraft with deliveries starting end of this year. United outbid SWA for these GECAS 05-06 builds. Gary cut the deal before the MAX grounding; but can you imagine the PR nightmare that will ensue as SWA has to cut even more flights as these aircraft go to UAL. I am sure that Gary figured he could get MAX’s to replace them and that is even more true now as Boeing will be having a fire sale on MAX’s that carriers now do not want. But the longer the grounding goes the greater the risk. One thing is certain and that is that Gary has doubled down on the MAX.


Do you have a source? That's a big OOF on Gary's part if true.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:33 pm

WN732 wrote:
n471wn wrote:
Well folks truth is stranger than fiction. United Airlines is taking from WN 19 ex Air Tran 700 aircraft with deliveries starting end of this year. United outbid SWA for these GECAS 05-06 builds. Gary cut the deal before the MAX grounding; but can you imagine the PR nightmare that will ensue as SWA has to cut even more flights as these aircraft go to UAL. I am sure that Gary figured he could get MAX’s to replace them and that is even more true now as Boeing will be having a fire sale on MAX’s that carriers now do not want. But the longer the grounding goes the greater the risk. One thing is certain and that is that Gary has doubled down on the MAX.


Do you have a source? That's a big OOF on Gary's part if true.


WN should delay the delivery of the former FL 737-700's that are scheduled to be delivered to UA if possible as WN really needs these 737-700's to remain competitive until the 737 MAX is back in service. UA also is scheduled to take delivery of 32 additional used A319's and 4 additional used A320's.

UA can likely deal with delays in the delivery of used 737-700's from WN as UA already has A319's, A320's, and 757's in its fleet that can be used until the used 737-700's are delivered to UA.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3569
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:42 pm

jplatts wrote:
WN732 wrote:
n471wn wrote:
Well folks truth is stranger than fiction. United Airlines is taking from WN 19 ex Air Tran 700 aircraft with deliveries starting end of this year. United outbid SWA for these GECAS 05-06 builds. Gary cut the deal before the MAX grounding; but can you imagine the PR nightmare that will ensue as SWA has to cut even more flights as these aircraft go to UAL. I am sure that Gary figured he could get MAX’s to replace them and that is even more true now as Boeing will be having a fire sale on MAX’s that carriers now do not want. But the longer the grounding goes the greater the risk. One thing is certain and that is that Gary has doubled down on the MAX.


Do you have a source? That's a big OOF on Gary's part if true.


WN should delay the delivery of the former FL 737-700's that are scheduled to be delivered to UA if possible as WN really needs these 737-700's to remain competitive until the 737 MAX is back in service. UA also is scheduled to take delivery of 32 additional used A319's and 4 additional used A320's.

UA can likely deal with delays in the delivery of used 737-700's from WN as UA already has A319's, A320's, and 757's in its fleet that can be used until the used 737-700's are delivered to UA.


If this is all true, why would UA do WN a favor and delay deliveries when they need them for their own MAX issues.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:34 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
If this is all true, why would UA do WN a favor and delay deliveries when they need them for their own MAX issues.


I agree with your point, and UA actually has more narrowbody mainline planes in service today (not including the 737 MAX's that are grounded) than it did 2 years ago. UA also likely has enough planes to cover all of its domestic mainline nonstop routes, even with the 737 MAX grounded.

UA was also operating most of its current nonstop mainline domestic routes 2 years ago, whereas WN has added service to Hawaii and increased nonstop service out of California and Texas during the last 2 years.
 
sketch
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:28 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:17 pm

The 737-700s are coming to UA not from WN but from lessor AerCap/IFLC with the first being S2-AHC (to be redesignated N13755) from Regent Airways of Bangladesh.
 
n471wn
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:39 pm

sketch wrote:
The 737-700s are coming to UA not from WN but from lessor AerCap/IFLC with the first being S2-AHC (to be redesignated N13755) from Regent Airways of Bangladesh.


My United sources say it is WN and they have the 19 production numbers and the delivery schedule so cannot believe you are right
 
n471wn
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:47 pm

sketch wrote:
The 737-700s are coming to UA not from WN but from lessor AerCap/IFLC with the first being S2-AHC (to be redesignated N13755) from Regent Airways of Bangladesh.


UA is indeed getting two 700’s from Regent (the only two they have) but this is a separate deal and has nothing to do with the 19 they are getting from WN via GECAS.
 
swacle
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:37 pm

I don't want to believe this, but just looked through airfleets and according to them WN has (drumroll....) 19 700's leased from GECAS.....
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
SWADawg
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:56 am

It’s true I’m afraid. I’ve already seen the first 2 ex FL -700’s already on the retirement schedule. First one leaves in August and the second one leaves in September. I can’t see past September, but expect to see more in October.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
Fargo
Posts: 810
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:58 am

Is this the end for an all 737 fleet at WN?

Do you think going forward they’ll add a different fleet type?
 
WN732
Posts: 815
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:04 am

SWADawg wrote:
It’s true I’m afraid. I’ve already seen the first 2 ex FL -700’s already on the retirement schedule. First one leaves in August and the second one leaves in September. I can’t see past September, but expect to see more in October.


I'm sure they are praying that the MAX will return by the Holidays.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2357
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:16 am

Fargo wrote:
Is this the end for an all 737 fleet at WN?

Do you think going forward they’ll add a different fleet type?


No and no.
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