barney captain wrote:

phllax wrote:

Barney,

I get the gist of it. We were on N8565Z and I didn’t notice life rafts.

Only the 83XX series of -800's are etops and to my knowledge, they're the only a/c that have the rafts physically installed. Some of the 700's we got from the second market have the ceiling compartments, but i think all the rafts were removed for weight savings since they aren't needed.

Only the N8301-8329 are ETOPS -800 A/C and they all have additional POBs and 4 rafts

The 737 MAX8 A/C (while not technically ETOPS) also have compartments, but no rafts had been installed yet.

There are also -700's which are non-ETOPS, but they are equipped for extended overwater Ops. They have three raft compartments.
- Rafts are installed/removed as needed depending on time of year and which routes they may need rafts on.

There are -700's from OAL as well that have 1 or 2 ceiling compartments but they weren't necessarily intended to ever hold rafts... they can also be used for storage of supplies, though WN does not allow this. They just stay closed and sealed.

WNCrew wrote:

barney captain wrote:

phllax wrote:

Barney,

I get the gist of it. We were on N8565Z and I didn’t notice life rafts.

Only the 83XX series of -800's are etops and to my knowledge, they're the only a/c that have the rafts physically installed. Some of the 700's we got from the second market have the ceiling compartments, but i think all the rafts were removed for weight savings since they aren't needed.

Only the N8301-8329 are ETOPS -800 A/C and they all have additional POBs and 4 rafts

The 737 MAX8 A/C (while not technically ETOPS) also have compartments, but no rafts had been installed yet.

There are also -700's which are non-ETOPS, but they are equipped for extended overwater Ops. They have three raft compartments.
- Rafts are installed/removed as needed depending on time of year and which routes they may need rafts on.

There are -700's from OAL as well that have 1 or 2 ceiling compartments but they weren't necessarily intended to ever hold rafts... they can also be used for storage of supplies, though WN does not allow this. They just stay closed and sealed.

Thanks for the clarification, and now that you mentioned it, I remember taking a -700 CUN-HOU and we were able to cut directly across the Gulf because we had rafts.

WNCrew wrote:

Only the N8301-8329 are ETOPS -800 A/C and they all have additional POBs and 4 rafts

The 737 MAX8 A/C (while not technically ETOPS) also have compartments, but no rafts had been installed yet.

There are also -700's which are non-ETOPS, but they are equipped for extended overwater Ops. They have three raft compartments.
- Rafts are installed/removed as needed depending on time of year and which routes they may need rafts on.

There are -700's from OAL as well that have 1 or 2 ceiling compartments but they weren't necessarily intended to ever hold rafts... they can also be used for storage of supplies, though WN does not allow this. They just stay closed and sealed.

Could you expand on your assertion that the 737-8s are not “technically” ETOPS? Does WN have plans to either bring in ETOPS Max planes with later deliveries or modify existing inventory?

Thanks,

Gabep

gabep wrote:

Could you expand on your assertion that the 737-8s are not “technically” ETOPS? Does WN have plans to either bring in ETOPS Max planes with later deliveries or modify existing inventory?

Thanks,

Gabep

As I understand it, which could be incorrect... the MAX8 aircraft were delivered "ETOPS ready"... meaning they have the necessary bits and pieces for ETOPS, though they've not been added to the Ops Spec as aircraft that are in the ETOPS fleet. ETOPS aircraft are maintained a bit differently than the rest, so to include ANY aircraft that you weren't utilizing for ETOPS routes would be expensive.

It was explained to me that, even now, if an ETOPS aircraft works a non-ETOPS route, it still has to be maintained as if it were working ETOPS missions.

ADent wrote:

Flew SJU-BWI and our plane didn’t have rafts (that I could see). W/o rafts you have to stay close to land.

Years ago flew DEN-MCO and due to nasty storms we went into the gulf over Texas. We just cut across the gulf because we had rafts on board.

So WN could add rafts and fly more direct routings. But rafts also weigh more and require service. I assume the company would optimize things.

Also the WN fleet is a bit scrambled with 35 MAX jets parked in the desert, plus however many undelivered.

I'm not sure how many jets have rafts but I can only recall being on one in the past year. I've flown about 15 WN trips on various routes but only one had rafts.

gabep wrote:

WNCrew wrote:

Only the N8301-8329 are ETOPS -800 A/C and they all have additional POBs and 4 rafts

The 737 MAX8 A/C (while not technically ETOPS) also have compartments, but no rafts had been installed yet.

There are also -700's which are non-ETOPS, but they are equipped for extended overwater Ops. They have three raft compartments.
- Rafts are installed/removed as needed depending on time of year and which routes they may need rafts on.

There are -700's from OAL as well that have 1 or 2 ceiling compartments but they weren't necessarily intended to ever hold rafts... they can also be used for storage of supplies, though WN does not allow this. They just stay closed and sealed.

Could you expand on your assertion that the 737-8s are not “technically” ETOPS? Does WN have plans to either bring in ETOPS Max planes with later deliveries or modify existing inventory?

Thanks,

Gabep

The Max's that were on property at the time of the grounding were all equipped from Boeing to be ETOPS aircraft. Any ETOPS equipment that was removable was not kept on board - rafts, etc. Exactly how the 83xx tails were set up before they started doing ETOPS. It takes a few days of conformity work to physically get them ready to go. The bigger issue is that the Max isn't in the opspec as ETOPS. Most of the work is paperwork related. They would have to pass muster with the FAA first, similar (but not nearly as extensive) as the original ETOPS application completed earlier this year. WN chose to start Hawaii service with the -800 and bring the Max-8 to the islands later. Turned out to be a very prudent choice.

TL;DR - They were set up to take the ETOPS equipment, but need it installed and paperwork complete to actually do ETOPS routes.

Also, I don't know how many of the remaining Max-8 deliveries were to be ETOPS equipped. I have to imagine that they're not all going to be.

Please continue discussion in Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

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