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User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 4230
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:09 pm

bob75013 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
They must really be pulling a decent amount of aircraft from the mainland, which is an odd strategy given their fleet situation

https://www.southwest.com/hawaii/

Image


Why is it an odd strategy?. Lower 48 travel is dead from 1/3 thru spring break. Travel to Hawaii isn't.


Ever heard of Florida?

Plus, look how many routes they have to seasonally discontinue to fund the HI flying, not even mentioning the permanent ones. That's like 60 routes (counting permanent/seasonal cuts), in exchange for 5-7 new ones and a hand full of once weekly routes.....
Image
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Silver1SWA
Posts: 4589
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:17 pm

SANFan wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
I’m guessing they need to wait for the MAX to return before they can make SAN to Hawaii happen.

And why do you say that Silver1'? WN obviously found the equipment to start five (5!) new routes from existing gateways, and even a NEW mainland city, to the Islands in January.

bb


Because the 738s would struggle making the trip west, especially in the winter months.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
737max8
Posts: 535
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:32 pm

The DAL cuts are shocking to me. Thought DAL has been flourishing post WA.

JAX/OKC/SFO gone permanently.

BOS/CHS/CLE/CRP/DTW/HRL/PDX/PHL/SEA/SNA gone seasonally.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5147
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:06 pm

737max8 wrote:
The DAL cuts are shocking to me. Thought DAL has been flourishing post WA.

JAX/OKC/SFO gone permanently.

BOS/CHS/CLE/CRP/DTW/HRL/PDX/PHL/SEA/SNA gone seasonally.

WN has pulled out (seasonally for now anyway) from some of those DAL markets that AS has entrenched themselves in. With the (permanent?) dropping of SAN and SJC to DAL, AS has now concentrated all their Luv Field flying in LA, SF, PDX & SEA for a total of 13 daily flights. (Importantly, all EMJ flights as of now.) So apparently both cx will share LA-DAL with WN getting all of the SAN & SJC traffic. I have no idea what's with all the other markets but then, there's a lot I don't get -- or like -- anymore about WN and their strategies.

bb
 
reednavy
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:46 pm

737max8 wrote:
The DAL cuts are shocking to me. Thought DAL has been flourishing post WA.

JAX/OKC/SFO gone permanently.

BOS/CHS/CLE/CRP/DTW/HRL/PDX/PHL/SEA/SNA gone seasonally.


OKC is just a big shock to me. I worked for WN at DAL as a supervisor and all the OKC flights were usually 2/3 full and heavy on business travelers.

DAL just got its throat cut with this schedule, damn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
jplatts
Posts: 2913
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:16 pm

reednavy wrote:
OKC is just a big shock to me. I worked for WN at DAL as a supervisor and all the OKC flights were usually 2/3 full and heavy on business travelers.

DAL just got its throat cut with this schedule, damn.


Over 86% of the passengers on the WN DAL-OKC nonstops were connecting to other destinations in 2018, and the PDEW on DAL-OKC was only 45 passengers per day in 2018.

The other destinations that had daily nonstop service to DAL on WN in 2018 had higher PDEW's (and more O&D traffic) than DAL-OKC.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:59 pm

737max8 wrote:
The DAL cuts are shocking to me. Thought DAL has been flourishing post WA.

JAX/OKC/SFO gone permanently.

BOS/CHS/CLE/CRP/DTW/HRL/PDX/PHL/SEA/SNA gone seasonally.


SFO has notoriously been a delay-prone airport compared to OAK (WN base) and SJC. To be honest, I’d prefer flying into SJC or OAK as opposed to SFO, so I don’t see WN dropping DAL-SFO as the end of the world, to be honest.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
Western727
Posts: 1658
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:00 pm

jplatts wrote:
reednavy wrote:
OKC is just a big shock to me. I worked for WN at DAL as a supervisor and all the OKC flights were usually 2/3 full and heavy on business travelers.

DAL just got its throat cut with this schedule, damn.


Over 86% of the passengers on the WN DAL-OKC nonstops were connecting to other destinations in 2018, and the PDEW on DAL-OKC was only 45 passengers per day in 2018.

The other destinations that had daily nonstop service to DAL on WN in 2018 had higher PDEW's (and more O&D traffic) than DAL-OKC.


Well, that settles that. 45 is clearly not that significant. Thanks for sharing that piece of data. I've flown the DAL-OKC leg several times and had long wondered what the PDEW data showed and never got around to looking it up.
Jack @ AUS
 
bob75013
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:49 pm

jplatts wrote:
reednavy wrote:
OKC is just a big shock to me. I worked for WN at DAL as a supervisor and all the OKC flights were usually 2/3 full and heavy on business travelers.

DAL just got its throat cut with this schedule, damn.


Over 86% of the passengers on the WN DAL-OKC nonstops were connecting to other destinations in 2018, and the PDEW on DAL-OKC was only 45 passengers per day in 2018.

.


Bingo, I think you hit on why DAL/OKC was cancelled.

With OKC non stops to DEN, HOU, STL, BNA, BWI and PHX (maybe others, too) WN is pretty well set to handle connecting passengers moving forward.
Last edited by bob75013 on Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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knope2001
Posts: 2950
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:52 pm

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
Not seeing MKE-LAX in this period, and that’s bad for me


Having MKE-LAX be considered “seasonal” is a gut punch – we can only hope this is only seasonal for the dead of winter in 2020 and it returns to year-round when MAX are back. Just a couple years back Southwest ran MKE-SAN/SFO/LAX even through the winter. As it stands today this coming winter MKE will have twice-daily SEA flights (almost 300 seats each way come March) but not a single nonstop to anywhere in California on any carrier. Maddening. It’s all a matter of competition, so it seems.

Year over year MKE’s flight volume with the new WN schedule is better than I feared. Looking at February (the only full calendar month in this release) we’re only down about 4-5 flights per week – for the full month up 11 departures (with the help of leap day) or excluding the extra day down 19 departures for the month. Our lost MKE-LAX trip is backfilled by a 3rd MKE-PHX addition, and part of the lost MKE-BOS frequency sees some offset by extra Saturday Florida/Arizona flying compared to last year. Seeing so many DAL cuts (both seasonal and permanent) I’m pleased to see MKE not lose DAL nor HOU. Could have been a far uglier schedule for us, and actually adding the third MKE-PHX, the sort of longish market that’s been getting trimmed with the MAX cuts, is good to see. Yes, it sort of replaces our MKE-LAX but they could have cut MKE-LAX and used that capacity someplace other than a third MKE-PHX. Boston was sort of dead man walking for some time now, and even last summer with the 9:45pm MKE-BOS flight (arriving nearly 2am) they had disappointing loads. With the Boston cut permanent it would be good to see Delta add more capacity to the market, especially in the warmer 2/3 of the year. We shall see.

Speaking of Boston and the big Southwest routes haircut if you look year-over-year they are only down net about 2 departures per day. Offsetting the year-over-year loss of ATL, AUS, DAL, IND, HOU, MCI, MKE are year-over-year increases to Nashville, Baltimore, Chicago and Denver. Other than the single surviving CMH flight Boston this winter will look a lot more like what you’d expect if Boston was a brand-new Southwest market. Weekdays are reasonably-frequent schedules to a handful of key Southwest (de facto) hubs: 9x BWI, 4x MDW and BNA, 3x STL and 2x DEN. Only a sole BOS-CMH point-to-point flight is left. Compare that to last winter when they had only 2x MDW and 1x DEN, yet they also had 1x each to CMH/IND/DAL/HOU/MCI/MKE. Southwest is unique in having a whole lot of point-to-point flights outside of their big de facto hubs. But Boston just hasn’t been successful in supporting those sorts of markets, so instead BOS will be a whole lot more like a big “spoke” station. They will probably be a lot more successful with that sort of approach.
 
737max8
Posts: 535
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:14 pm

So DAL is staying at 195 departures. It's just a reshuffling of the deck. There will be added frequencies to many DAL markets.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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bob75013
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:38 pm

737max8 wrote:
So DAL is staying at 195 departures. It's just a reshuffling of the deck. There will be added frequencies to many DAL markets.


I'm sure WN would love to have frequencies to AMA, LBB, AUS, SAT, HOU, LIT, OKC, TUL, ELP, MAF and others at the level they were duing Wright Amendment days. Planes were full. WN made lots of money. With 18 gates and an apparent top of 195 departures, that is not possible. Maybe that will change in 2024 when things can change..
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:30 pm

bob75013 wrote:
737max8 wrote:
So DAL is staying at 195 departures. It's just a reshuffling of the deck. There will be added frequencies to many DAL markets.


I'm sure WN would love to have frequencies to AMA, LBB, AUS, SAT, HOU, LIT, OKC, TUL, ELP, MAF and others at the level they were duing Wright Amendment days. Planes were full. WN made lots of money. With 18 gates and an apparent top of 195 departures, that is not possible. Maybe that will change in 2024 when things can change..


Short of the City of Dallas finding a way to add gates at DAL, I don’t see how that’ll happen, unfortunately.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
ROCDLFAN
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:07 pm

After years of being stagnant and despite several network reductions, WN is finally adding winter service to ROC.

SAT only service to FLL begins in January for the winter season, as well as RSW starting a month and a half earlier than it did the last two years. With MCO, TPA, RSW, FLL and BWI Service, this is the most destinations and most daily flights WN has ever served from ROC. RSW and FLL will Be Saturday only while TPA and MCO will continue to be daily.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
jplatts
Posts: 2913
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:14 pm

bob75013 wrote:
I'm sure WN would love to have frequencies to AMA, LBB, AUS, SAT, HOU, LIT, OKC, TUL, ELP, MAF and others at the level they were duing Wright Amendment days. Planes were full. WN made lots of money. With 18 gates and an apparent top of 195 departures, that is not possible. Maybe that will change in 2024 when things can change..


The PDEW's on WN routes out of DAL to Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Louisiana are lower today than was the case during the Wright Amendment days.

There were factors other than post-Wright Amendment expansion at DAL that weakened PDEW's on WN routes out of DAL to Texas and neighboring states, including the following:
  • Tightening of airport security following the 9/11 attacks almost 18 years ago
  • Higher fares on WN flights out of DAL to destinations in Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Louisiana than was the case during the Wright Amendment days

PDEW's on WN routes out of DAL to Texas and neighboring states were also already decreasing following the 9/11 attacks but prior to the enactment of the Wright Amendment Reform Act of 2006 that repealed the Wright Amendment on October 13, 2014.

O&D demand for WN service out of the DFW Metroplex to Texas and neighboring states will probably never be at the levels that they were during the Wright Amendment days anytime soon, even if WN increased frequencies on nonstop routes out of DAL to Texas and neighboring states.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:21 pm

knope2001 wrote:
Speaking of Boston and the big Southwest routes haircut if you look year-over-year they are only down net about 2 departures per day. Offsetting the year-over-year loss of ATL, AUS, DAL, IND, HOU, MCI, MKE are year-over-year increases to Nashville, Baltimore, Chicago and Denver. Other than the single surviving CMH flight Boston this winter will look a lot more like what you’d expect if Boston was a brand-new Southwest market. Weekdays are reasonably-frequent schedules to a handful of key Southwest (de facto) hubs: 9x BWI, 4x MDW and BNA, 3x STL and 2x DEN. Only a sole BOS-CMH point-to-point flight is left. Compare that to last winter when they had only 2x MDW and 1x DEN, yet they also had 1x each to CMH/IND/DAL/HOU/MCI/MKE. Southwest is unique in having a whole lot of point-to-point flights outside of their big de facto hubs. But Boston just hasn’t been successful in supporting those sorts of markets, so instead BOS will be a whole lot more like a big “spoke” station. They will probably be a lot more successful with that sort of approach.


Interesting to see BNA getting increases from these cuts (it's not technically a base for WN like BWI, MDW, DEN, etc). Makes you wonder what WN's future plans for BNA are.
 
peak86
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:11 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:47 pm

bob75013 wrote:
737max8 wrote:
So DAL is staying at 195 departures. It's just a reshuffling of the deck. There will be added frequencies to many DAL markets.


I'm sure WN would love to have frequencies to AMA, LBB, AUS, SAT, HOU, LIT, OKC, TUL, ELP, MAF and others at the level they were duing Wright Amendment days. Planes were full. WN made lots of money. With 18 gates and an apparent top of 195 departures, that is not possible. Maybe that will change in 2024 when things can change..


The only reason those flights were full was the Wright Amendment itself - no way they could have supported as much service to places like AMA, LBB, MAF as they did without the thru traffic...

They can likely sustain the service they have now, but I can't imagine it's that big a gold mine for them. I've been on a number of Intra-Texas flights with fewer than 40-50 folks on them...but I've also been on ones that are 100% packed, tough to say
 
OKCDCA
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:23 am

Absolutely shocked to see OKC-DAL go away but based on the data presented up thread can't argue with it. When WN cut it to 3x daily and made the flight times so bad that no business traveler going from OKC to Dallas for the day would want to take the flight, it's not surprising the PDEW dropped. Good luck getting a reasonable price on AA going OKC-DFW anymore...
 
DakotaFlyer
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:19 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:46 am

This is a newbie question: But has SWA maybe plateaued when I comes to service? It seems most updates are just incremental. I know the lack of the Max-8 is an issue, but even if or when they return, how much capacity can be added in the network?
 
nyd686
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:32 am

737max8 wrote:
The DAL cuts are shocking to me. Thought DAL has been flourishing post WA.

JAX/OKC/SFO gone permanently.

BOS/CHS/CLE/CRP/DTW/HRL/PDX/PHL/SEA/SNA gone seasonally.

737max8 wrote:
So DAL is staying at 195 departures. It's just a reshuffling of the deck. There will be added frequencies to many DAL markets.


Looking at the weekday Jan 2020 schedule vs. Jan 2019, WN is adding frequencies from DAL to ATL/AUS/BNA/BWI/DEN/FLL/HOU/LAS/LAX/MCI/MDW/MSY/PHX/SAT/STL while cutting the routes mentioned above. LIT and MEM also reduced by 1 frequency year-over-year.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:35 am

Midwestindy wrote:
So permanent cuts are:

DAL-SFO
AUS-SFO


Interesting
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:42 am

SANFan wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
I’m guessing they need to wait for the MAX to return before they can make SAN to Hawaii happen.

And why do you say that Silver1'? WN obviously found the equipment to start five (5!) new routes from existing gateways, and even a NEW mainland city, to the Islands in January.

Never mind, it doesn't really matter. It is, however, somewhat annoying and confusing to learn where WN's priorities are these days. Or perhaps I should say 'where they aren't.. As I've been saying for over 6 months now, I'll believe it if or when I see the first w/b flight depart from SAN...

barney captain wrote:
Sanfan -
You may appreciate this a bit more ;)
https://www.facebook.com/SouthwestAir/v ... 217997994/

Hey, thanks for the effort Cap'n'. Let's hear it for the future!

Oh, and just in case I haven't said it lately, I'll believe it if or when I see the first w/b flight depart from SAN...

bb


SANfan, I feel your pain. I get it. But I don’t think you are taking the Max situation into account enough. If the Max thing never happened, I’d bet real money that they’d be all over SAN-Hawaii like flies on s***. It appears they were only able to add what the did (minus SAN) because of the closing of EWR. This Max crap is really messing things up. Be patient, my friend, SAN will get it’s due.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1694
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:50 am

This schedule is Bananas.
Pull the MAX or don't pull the MAX.
Maybe they know something Boeing and the FAA doesn't. Hahahahaha.
I know they had to make cuts because of the MAX grounding and 7377NG retirements they can push back but this schedule extension looks like they took the dart board from the Frontier's Planning department.
Good luck Old Friend 2020 looks like it's gonna be ruff.
"New SAN-Hawaii spin I heard today is that the NG800 is Too Heavy going west. So basically NO MAX NO SAN-Hawaii ????

Maybe all these cuts will help ease the DOT filling for a JetBlue merger ?????

Weird times for the LUV Airline.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
flybaby
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:20 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:47 am

tphuang wrote:
why am I not surprised that FLL-JAX is done.


That was to be expected although it should probably be taken in the greater context of what’s happening in JAX...

The entry of Frontier and Spirit into JAX has completely upended this market. On the one, hand it caused a monster 20% YoY increase (and possibly more) in overall passenger traffic, but on the other hand we are seeing existing carriers drop flights in light of the new competition.

Pax growth numbers should stabilize in January as that would be the first full month in which both Spirit and Frontier would have been operating at the airport for one full year.

The airport authority has admitted that it was caught off guard by the pax growth and that they are now gate-limited at certain times of the day (basically thanks to the decision to defer construction of concourse B a few years back, which seemed wise at the time but has come back to bite them).
 
737max8
Posts: 535
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:13 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
This schedule is Bananas.
Pull the MAX or don't pull the MAX.
Maybe they know something Boeing and the FAA doesn't. Hahahahaha.
I know they had to make cuts because of the MAX grounding and 7377NG retirements they can push back but this schedule extension looks like they took the dart board from the Frontier's Planning department.
Good luck Old Friend 2020 looks like it's gonna be ruff.
"New SAN-Hawaii spin I heard today is that the NG800 is Too Heavy going west. So basically NO MAX NO SAN-Hawaii ????

Maybe all these cuts will help ease the DOT filling for a JetBlue merger ?????

Weird times for the LUV Airline.

Flyguy


Southwest is still making record revenue every quarter. Why the doom and gloom??

After the rough events of the last few years I am hopeful 2020 will be a really good year of growth and no extreme events.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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tphuang
Posts: 3391
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:44 pm

In times like this, you can really see where the network priorities are and where they are giving up the fight. The priority is clearly Hawaii, secondary west coast stations and the stations not losing flights. The places where they are giving up are EWR, BOS and SFO.
 
bob75013
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:57 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
737max8 wrote:
So DAL is staying at 195 departures. It's just a reshuffling of the deck. There will be added frequencies to many DAL markets.


I'm sure WN would love to have frequencies to AMA, LBB, AUS, SAT, HOU, LIT, OKC, TUL, ELP, MAF and others at the level they were duing Wright Amendment days. Planes were full. WN made lots of money. With 18 gates and an apparent top of 195 departures, that is not possible. Maybe that will change in 2024 when things can change..


Short of the City of Dallas finding a way to add gates at DAL, I don’t see how that’ll happen, unfortunately.


The point is that stafting 2024 WN can expand in DFW - the WARA handcuffs come off.

I can see WN giving the city of Dallas an ultimatum: help us fight for more DAL gates or we expand at another metroplex airport or airports. Then I could see the city of Dallas issuig DFW supprters an ultimatum. WN will have more flights/gates in the metroplex by 2024 or shortly thereafter.
 
SWADawg
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:54 pm

bob75013 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
bob75013 wrote:

I'm sure WN would love to have frequencies to AMA, LBB, AUS, SAT, HOU, LIT, OKC, TUL, ELP, MAF and others at the level they were duing Wright Amendment days. Planes were full. WN made lots of money. With 18 gates and an apparent top of 195 departures, that is not possible. Maybe that will change in 2024 when things can change..


Short of the City of Dallas finding a way to add gates at DAL, I don’t see how that’ll happen, unfortunately.


The point is that stafting 2024 WN can expand in DFW - the WARA handcuffs come off.

I can see WN giving the city of Dallas an ultimatum: help us fight for more DAL gates or we expand at another metroplex airport or airports. Then I could see the city of Dallas issuig DFW supprters an ultimatum. WN will have more flights/gates in the metroplex by 2024 or shortly thereafter.

Agree with this statement.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:39 am

bob75013 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
bob75013 wrote:

I'm sure WN would love to have frequencies to AMA, LBB, AUS, SAT, HOU, LIT, OKC, TUL, ELP, MAF and others at the level they were duing Wright Amendment days. Planes were full. WN made lots of money. With 18 gates and an apparent top of 195 departures, that is not possible. Maybe that will change in 2024 when things can change..


Short of the City of Dallas finding a way to add gates at DAL, I don’t see how that’ll happen, unfortunately.


The point is that stafting 2024 WN can expand in DFW - the WARA handcuffs come off.

I can see WN giving the city of Dallas an ultimatum: help us fight for more DAL gates or we expand at another metroplex airport or airports. Then I could see the city of Dallas issuig DFW supprters an ultimatum. WN will have more flights/gates in the metroplex by 2024 or shortly thereafter.


Why would the city of Dallas care if WN served DFW and DAL? What is the leverage?
 
peak86
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:11 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:07 am

AirFiero wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:


Short of the City of Dallas finding a way to add gates at DAL, I don’t see how that’ll happen, unfortunately.


The point is that stafting 2024 WN can expand in DFW - the WARA handcuffs come off.

I can see WN giving the city of Dallas an ultimatum: help us fight for more DAL gates or we expand at another metroplex airport or airports. Then I could see the city of Dallas issuig DFW supprters an ultimatum. WN will have more flights/gates in the metroplex by 2024 or shortly thereafter.


Why would the city of Dallas care if WN served DFW and DAL? What is the leverage?


The City owns and is ultimately responsible for the well-being of Love Field - Southwest's shifting of capacity out of DAL could certainly create a ripple effect. Sure, DL would take a couple of gates and add capacity... but ultimately, the City would find itself in a much worse position should WN significantly reduce capacity
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:12 am

peak86 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
bob75013 wrote:

The point is that stafting 2024 WN can expand in DFW - the WARA handcuffs come off.

I can see WN giving the city of Dallas an ultimatum: help us fight for more DAL gates or we expand at another metroplex airport or airports. Then I could see the city of Dallas issuig DFW supprters an ultimatum. WN will have more flights/gates in the metroplex by 2024 or shortly thereafter.


Why would the city of Dallas care if WN served DFW and DAL? What is the leverage?


The City owns and is ultimately responsible for the well-being of Love Field - Southwest's shifting of capacity out of DAL could certainly create a ripple effect. Sure, DL would take a couple of gates and add capacity... but ultimately, the City would find itself in a much worse position should WN significantly reduce capacity


I’m just playing devils advocate here, not trying to argue with you, but if DAL is gate restricted it stands to reason the city doesn’t want *more* flights there. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to assume they might be happy with *fewer* flights for the same reasons that growth there is capped?
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1466
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:19 am

Midwestindy wrote:
So permanent cuts are: ATL-BOS


Interesting. This should make life a bit easier for B6 and NK...

Also, WN's last international services from ATL (CUN and PUJ) have gone seasonal. Perhaps these suspensions provide additional opportunities for the ULCCs (F9 and/or NK) to further expand at ATL...

Midwestindy wrote:
So permanent cuts are: MCI-BOS
MKE-BOS


Wow, further WN retreat from the Northeast. First there was massive cuts at places like ISP, MHT and PHL. Then a complete withdrawal from EWR. Now BOS loses all nonstop service not just to IND but also ATL, MCI and MKE. Meanwhile, BOS-AUS/DAL have gone seasonal. I'm sure DL is thrilled. Will be interesting to see if B6 sees any opportunities here too...

Midwestindy wrote:
So permanent cuts are: OAK-CMH


This service paved the way for Columbus to get nonstop SFO service on UA. Perhaps it even helped CMH get AS to SEA. Then again, certainly not surprising considering how much OAK service has been on the chopping block due to the MAX groundings...

Midwestindy wrote:
So permanent cuts are: CUN-LAX
LAX-OMA
LAX-PIT
LAX-PVR


The subpar experience for arriving international pax must really be taking a toll on WN's international services from LAX. Then again, WN seems to be quite disappointed by California-Mexico (all OAK/SJC/SNA-Mexico services are now seasonal) and LAX-heartland (and for that matter, OAK-heartland). Moreover, LAX-IND/MKE/TPA have gone seasonal. I realize there is significant competitive pressure at LAX from AA, AS, DL and UA - but are all these LAX reductions making room for LAX-Hawaii services?!?

Midwestindy wrote:
So permanent cuts are: DAL-JAX
DAL-OKC
DAL-SFO


Whoa. In addition to these cuts, DAL-BOS/CHS/CLE/CRP/DTW/HRL/PDX/PHL/SEA/SNA have all been reduced to seasonal services. Have AS and WN reached some sort of truce at DAL, where AS has thrown in the towel on DAL-DCA/LGA/SAN/SJC and WN has more or less ceded DAL-PDX/SEA/SFO to AS? I realize AA must be a very tough competitor in the Dallas-Orange County market, but perhaps AS could fill the void on the DAL-SNA route if it is not simply turning scarce DAL gate space over to DL?

Midwestindy wrote:
So permanent cuts are: FLL-JAX


Another victory for B6.

Midwestindy wrote:
So permanent cuts are: LGA-MCO


I didn't realize WN even flew this route. EWR-MCO is gone, and so too is the last nonstop WN service to Orlando from a preferred NYC airport?!?

Midwestindy wrote:
So permanent cuts are: AUS-SFO


Seeing California bear the brunt of the network cuts wasn't very surprising.. but seeing so much service to Texas get cut is quite shocking. AUS-BOS/CUN/RDU have all gone seasonal.. in addition to AUS-EWR ending when the Newark station is closed. Unfortunately I believe AUS is just outside the LGA perimeter...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
pmanni1
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:41 am

What happened to WN's interactive route map? Currently it looks to be useless. https://www.southwest.com/flight/routem ... R-ROUTEMAP
 
bob75013
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:00 pm

AirFiero wrote:
peak86 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

Why would the city of Dallas care if WN served DFW and DAL? What is the leverage?


The City owns and is ultimately responsible for the well-being of Love Field - Southwest's shifting of capacity out of DAL could certainly create a ripple effect. Sure, DL would take a couple of gates and add capacity... but ultimately, the City would find itself in a much worse position should WN significantly reduce capacity


I’m just playing devils advocate here, not trying to argue with you, but if DAL is gate restricted it stands to reason the city doesn’t want *more* flights there. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to assume they might be happy with *fewer* flights for the same reasons that growth there is capped?


Why might the city of Dallas want more gates at DAL instead of more gates at McKinney or Alliance? REVENUE

I personally would love flights at TKI - 15 minutes from home
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 2950
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:54 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
What happened to WN's interactive route map? Currently it looks to be useless. https://www.southwest.com/flight/routem ... R-ROUTEMAP


Wondering the same thing myself -- really miss it. However if you click on the "list" button you can see the cities served nonstop so at least there's that. But I do miss the map.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2913
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:52 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
So permanent cuts are: MCI-BOS
MKE-BOS



WN might have been able to make MCI-BOS nonstop service work on a summer seasonal basis as load factors on MCI-BOS was over 83% during the June 2018 through October 2018 time period, but WN dropped MCI-BOS nonstop service in Summer 2019 due to the plane shortage arising from the 737 MAX grounding. I could see WN possibly re-adding MCI-BOS on at least a summer seasonal basis once the new terminal at MCI is opened and WN has more planes in its fleet.

I was not surprised about WN dropping MKE-BOS nonstop service as WN had lower load factors on MKE-BOS than on its other nonstop routes out of MKE in 2018. WN probably did make the right decision in dropping MKE-BOS nonstop service as load factors on MKE-BOS was 62.40% in 2018 and 60.43% during the first 4 months of 2019.

SurfandSnow wrote:
Wow, further WN retreat from the Northeast. First there was massive cuts at places like ISP, MHT and PHL. Then a complete withdrawal from EWR. Now BOS loses all nonstop service not just to IND but also ATL, MCI and MKE. Meanwhile, BOS-AUS/DAL have gone seasonal. I'm sure DL is thrilled. Will be interesting to see if B6 sees any opportunities here too...


I am not sure why WN decided to reduce DAL-BOS to seasonal nonstop service since there was likely enough demand for year-round DAL-BOS nonstop service and since many of those traveling to BOS from the DAL/DFW market prefer to do so on WN or AA over B6, NK, or DL. The load factors on DAL-BOS was over 87% in 2018 and over 83% in the first 4 months of 2019. B6 is also weaker in Texas than in most of the other markets in the contiguous U.S. that have nonstop service to BOS on B6.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1694
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:01 pm

WN made A lot of drastic changes to Grow Hawaii in January and free up aircraft to keep the remaining network covered.
From everything I'm hearing Spring and Summer there hopeful the MAX8 and MAX7 will be back in service and reinstall many of the un-Seasonal and seasonal Cuts . Plus grow the network in the summer.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14044
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:17 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
Also, WN's last international services from ATL (CUN and PUJ) have gone seasonal. Perhaps these suspensions provide additional opportunities for the ULCCs (F9 and/or NK) to further expand at ATL...

Midwestindy wrote:
So permanent cuts are: CUN-LAX
LAX-OMA
LAX-PIT
LAX-PVR


The subpar experience for arriving international pax must really be taking a toll on WN's international services from LAX. Then again, WN seems to be quite disappointed by California-Mexico (all OAK/SJC/SNA-Mexico services are now seasonal) and LAX-heartland (and for that matter, OAK-heartland). Moreover, LAX-IND/MKE/TPA have gone seasonal. I realize there is significant competitive pressure at LAX from AA, AS, DL and UA - but are all these LAX reductions making room for LAX-Hawaii services?!?


Does anyone have a comprehensive list of the cities where WN runs departures off of the international gates versus towing the arriving airplanes to a domestic gate? If they tow at ATL, that’s a long tow on a VERY busy ramp on top of an as-bad-as-LAX experience for connecting passengers. If I were WN, I’d push as many connecting international passengers as possible over cities like HOU and STL where the international gates are de facto WN exclusive use gates and the connecting experience is straightforward both directions.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:54 pm

bob75013 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
peak86 wrote:

The City owns and is ultimately responsible for the well-being of Love Field - Southwest's shifting of capacity out of DAL could certainly create a ripple effect. Sure, DL would take a couple of gates and add capacity... but ultimately, the City would find itself in a much worse position should WN significantly reduce capacity


I’m just playing devils advocate here, not trying to argue with you, but if DAL is gate restricted it stands to reason the city doesn’t want *more* flights there. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to assume they might be happy with *fewer* flights for the same reasons that growth there is capped?


Why might the city of Dallas want more gates at DAL instead of more gates at McKinney or Alliance? REVENUE

I personally would love flights at TKI - 15 minutes from home


I understand that, but demand seems to be there for more gates at DAL, but the cap remains. Why not undo all this fighting over scarce gate space, and just build 2 (or more) damned gates??
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1466
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:24 pm

AirFiero wrote:
I understand that, but demand seems to be there for more gates at DAL, but the cap remains. Why not undo all this fighting over scarce gate space, and just build 2 (or more) damned gates??


Powerful vested interests such as American Airlines and the city of Fort Worth probably don't want to see any further expansion of DAL. The popular inner city airport's passenger traffic doubled with the appeal of the Wright Amendment with the gate cap... I'm sure more than a few businesses/people would have preferred to see those millions of travelers using the metroplex's primary airport...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
jplatts
Posts: 2913
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:28 pm

AirFiero wrote:
I understand that, but demand seems to be there for more gates at DAL, but the cap remains. Why not undo all this fighting over scarce gate space, and just build 2 (or more) damned gates??


WN and DL could add more flights out of the 18 gates currently used by WN at DAL if the curfew was loosened to allow commercial passenger flights out of DAL between 5:00 AM and 1:30 AM. The loosened curfew would (a) allow WN to more easily connect passengers to DAL from Hawaii, (b) would allow WN to schedule departures to stations such as OAK, DEN, MDW, BWI and FLL in the 5:00 AM - 6:00 AM time window, and (c) would allow WN to schedule later departures to DAL from OAK, SAN, LAS, DEN, MDW, and BWI that arrive at DAL between 11:00 PM and 1:30 AM.

WN has an actual business need to schedule a few nonstop flights to DAL from California that arrive at DAL after 12:00 AM as WN needs to get Hawaii-based employees such as ticket counter agents, gate agents, and ramp agents who work at its Hawaiian stations to its headquarters at DAL for training.

WN would also be able to offer more connecting options to DAL from some WN stations in the Pacific Northwest and the Eastern U.S. if the curfew was loosened to allow later departures from LAS, DEN, MDW, and BWI that arrive at DAL between 11:00 PM and 1:00 AM.

WN would also be able to offer more connecting options from DAL to some destinations in Hawaii, the Pacific Northwest, the Eastern U.S., and the Caribbean if the curfew was loosened to allow departures to OAK, DEN, MDW, BWI, and FLL from DAL between 5:00 AM and 6:00 AM.

A loosened curfew at DAL would also make it easier for DAL to accommodate early morning departures from DAL to DL hubs on DL and late night arrivals to DAL from DL hubs on DL. DL would also need to share a few additional gates at DAL with WN if DL adds nonstop service to destinations other than ATL from DAL.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2913
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:43 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
Powerful vested interests such as American Airlines and the city of Fort Worth probably don't want to see any further expansion of DAL. The popular inner city airport's passenger traffic doubled with the appeal of the Wright Amendment with the gate cap... I'm sure more than a few businesses/people would have preferred to see those millions of travelers using the metroplex's primary airport...


All of the gates in Terminals A, B, C, D, and E at DFW are already in actual use by at least one airline. DFW also carries almost 4 million additional domestic passengers than it did 5 years ago. There is also still significant demand for AA nonstop service out of DFW to destinations that have nonstop service out of both DFW and DAL.

Load factors on domestic nonstop flights of DFW in 2018:
All carriers - 84.66%
AA mainline - 85.36%
Envoy - 78.32%

In order for WN to overtake AA in market share in the DAL/DFW market, DAL would need to be expanded to at least 44 gates and WN would need to operate at least 390 daily departures out of DAL. DAL is also unlikely to be expanded to the size needed for WN to overtake AA in market share in the DAL/DFW market (at least without serving airports other than DAL in the DFW Metroplex).

AA will very likely maintain significantly greater market share in the DAL/DFW market, even if DAL were expanded beyond the current 20 gate limit. AA also has elite status FF's and corporate contract travelers in the DFW Metroplex who will choose AA over competitors, even if WN or others significantly expand in the DFW/DAL market. There are also some domestic destinations that AA serves nonstop from DFW that WN will probably never nonstop from DAL, even if gate space at DAL wasn't not an issue. AA and its codeshare partners also have nonstop service out of DFW to international destinations outside of North America, whereas WN currently only serves the contiguous United States, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean.

DFW is also much closer to the Fort Worth side of the DFW Metroplex than DAL is, and there are some travelers to the Fort Worth side of the DFW Metroplex who would choose DFW over DAL, even with any further expansion at DAL by WN or other competitors.
 
mwmav8r01
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:22 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:46 am

wnflyguy wrote:
This schedule is Bananas.
Pull the MAX or don't pull the MAX.
Maybe they know something Boeing and the FAA doesn't. Hahahahaha.
I know they had to make cuts because of the MAX grounding and 7377NG retirements they can push back but this schedule extension looks like they took the dart board from the Frontier's Planning department.
Good luck Old Friend 2020 looks like it's gonna be ruff.
"New SAN-Hawaii spin I heard today is that the NG800 is Too Heavy going west. So basically NO MAX NO SAN-Hawaii ????

Maybe all these cuts will help ease the DOT filling for a JetBlue merger ?????

Weird times for the LUV Airline.

Flyguy



WN has the exact same number of flights at DAL as they have had every month for the last 12 months. No "throat cutting" in DAL. Just focused on where they can make more moolah.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2913
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:56 pm

I am surprised that WN hasn't reduced frequencies on ATL-LGA nonstop service when (a) WN already dropped ATL-DTW, ATL-MSP, and ATL-SEA nonstop service, (b) WN is going to be discontinuing ATL-BOS nonstop service in January, and (c) WN is gong to be reducing ATL-LAX to 2 daily nonstops from 3 daily nonstops.

WN still has 5 daily nonstops on ATL-LGA in January and February 2020.

Why hasn't WN yet reduced frequencies on ATL-LGA nonstop service when WN has dropped nonstop routes out of ATL to other DL hubs such as BOS, DTW, MSP, and SEA?
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:09 am

jplatts wrote:
I am surprised that WN hasn't reduced frequencies on ATL-LGA nonstop service when (a) WN already dropped ATL-DTW, ATL-MSP, and ATL-SEA nonstop service, (b) WN is going to be discontinuing ATL-BOS nonstop service in January, and (c) WN is gong to be reducing ATL-LAX to 2 daily nonstops from 3 daily nonstops.

WN still has 5 daily nonstops on ATL-LGA in January and February 2020.

Why hasn't WN yet reduced frequencies on ATL-LGA nonstop service when WN has dropped nonstop routes out of ATL to other DL hubs such as BOS, DTW, MSP, and SEA?


Um , perhaps due to them making a decent profit on the ATL-LGA nonstop as opposed to the obes you mentioned, twice. That would seem to be rhe logical answer.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
barney captain
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:10 am

wnflyguy wrote:
"New SAN-Hawaii spin I heard today is that the NG800 is Too Heavy going west. So basically NO MAX NO SAN-Hawaii ????

Flyguy


AS seems to have no issues. Every flight I've done westbound has had plenty of room for the required extra fuel for SAN-HI - even with winter winds.The only issues I've ever heard of are the occasional SEA-HNL flights on AS during winter, needing a tech stop in OAK.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
jplatts
Posts: 2913
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:36 am

sprxUSA wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Why hasn't WN yet reduced frequencies on ATL-LGA nonstop service when WN has dropped nonstop routes out of ATL to other DL hubs such as BOS, DTW, MSP, and SEA?


Um , perhaps due to them making a decent profit on the ATL-LGA nonstop as opposed to the obes you mentioned, twice. That would seem to be rhe logical answer.


I agree with your point, and WN ATL-LGA actually also had higher load factors than WN ATL-BOS/DTW/MSP did in 2018.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1113
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:20 am

barney captain wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
"New SAN-Hawaii spin I heard today is that the NG800 is Too Heavy going west. So basically NO MAX NO SAN-Hawaii ????

Flyguy


AS seems to have no issues. Every flight I've done westbound has had plenty of room for the required extra fuel for SAN-HI - even with winter winds.The only issues I've ever heard of are the occasional SEA-HNL flights on AS during winter, needing a tech stop in OAK.


Possibly could be due to WN putting 16 more seats on their -800s and probably carrying more luggage than AS with their bag allowance.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3391
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:36 am

sprxUSA wrote:
jplatts wrote:
I am surprised that WN hasn't reduced frequencies on ATL-LGA nonstop service when (a) WN already dropped ATL-DTW, ATL-MSP, and ATL-SEA nonstop service, (b) WN is going to be discontinuing ATL-BOS nonstop service in January, and (c) WN is gong to be reducing ATL-LAX to 2 daily nonstops from 3 daily nonstops.

WN still has 5 daily nonstops on ATL-LGA in January and February 2020.

Why hasn't WN yet reduced frequencies on ATL-LGA nonstop service when WN has dropped nonstop routes out of ATL to other DL hubs such as BOS, DTW, MSP, and SEA?


Um , perhaps due to them making a decent profit on the ATL-LGA nonstop as opposed to the obes you mentioned, twice. That would seem to be rhe logical answer.

that's definitely not true. LGA is just an airport they must serve in order to maintain any kind of relevance in ATL. It's just nowhere near the bloodbath that ATL-BOS/DTW/MSP are for them.
 
asteriskceo
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:42 am

barney captain wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
"New SAN-Hawaii spin I heard today is that the NG800 is Too Heavy going west. So basically NO MAX NO SAN-Hawaii ????

Flyguy


AS seems to have no issues. Every flight I've done westbound has had plenty of room for the required extra fuel for SAN-HI - even with winter winds.The only issues I've ever heard of are the occasional SEA-HNL flights on AS during winter, needing a tech stop in OAK.


AS’s -800’s are lighter. 16 seats lighter. Not to mention that bags fly free on WN.
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