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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:57 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Why wouldn’t they? Multiple international gates are a good thing but will only be needed for Saturday CUN arrivals and perhaps late afternoon for Europe for the foreseeable future.


Those gates will be compatible for domestic and international to my understanding. BNA will never need 6 international gates. Maybe AA or DL will move in there, and just happen to have 1 or two gates common use for international carriers.


They will have to be swing gates. My question is once work on the IAB begins, how do AA and DL keep their respective schedules with the loss of two gates each? Something has to give somewhere. MNAA might have to move some of the smaller airlines off B and to the new D, perhaps temporarily give AA a couple of gates there as well. It will be interesting.


That was my thinking as well. I don't think WN can take all 6 gates in D and keep their 14 on C until the IAB is completed. Or perhaps WN takes all of D and temporarily gives up 3-4 gates in C until the work is finished. I also wonder what will happen when the current work is completed and then they start on BNA Vision Phase 2. Preliminary plans show that A will be completely rebuilt. If that is the case, they may have to relocate the A airlines down the road as well.

Talk about a messy next decade! As convenient as BNA's terminal is, the design is not very flexible for expansion. Hopefully, a future second terminal will be designed better for expansion.
 
gustywinds
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:41 am

This is what I was told from someone at BNA today -

Once WN takes over the 6 new D gates they will give up 4 gates on C (13, 14, 15 & 17)

As already known AA and DL will lose 2 gates with the build out of the IAB. AA will move back into C13 & 14. AS and G4 move from B and will share C15 & 17. DL will take over their (AS & G4) 2 gates on B.

SY has become a signatory carrier.

During construction WN will lose half of their ticket counter. WN’s full service counter will take over half of AA’s counter. Their self service kiosks stay at their existing counter.

NK will use a stand alone island gate podium ticket counter like AC and LF are currently forced to use during construction. Who knows for sure and this could change before they start service in October. It does seem inconvenient for their employees to move bags via a cart to a belt behind the real counters.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:28 am

gustywinds wrote:
NK will use a stand alone island gate podium ticket counter like AC and LF are currently forced to use during construction. Who knows for sure and this could change before they start service in October. It does seem inconvenient for their employees to move bags via a cart to a belt behind the real counters.


There's no rule from TSA (or anyone else) stopping the "island" carriers from having passengers take their bags to the belt. It would probably mean the loss of a counter position for UA, but it could be done.
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Jshank83
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:31 am

gustywinds wrote:
This is what I was told from someone at BNA today -

Once WN takes over the 6 new D gates they will give up 4 gates on C (13, 14, 15 & 17)




So will WN be at 20 or 16?
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:32 am

Jshank83 wrote:
gustywinds wrote:
This is what I was told from someone at BNA today -

Once WN takes over the 6 new D gates they will give up 4 gates on C (13, 14, 15 & 17)




So will WN be at 20 or 16?


They might be giving up gates temporarily, but I was told they’ll keep what they have, and get all of D. That’s 20 gates. There’s just so many unknowns with BNA Vision. It’s gonna be awhile before everything is set permanently. I think the ramp is gonna be controlled again once D opens.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
gsg013
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:31 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Why wouldn’t they? Multiple international gates are a good thing but will only be needed for Saturday CUN arrivals and perhaps late afternoon for Europe for the foreseeable future.


Those gates will be compatible for domestic and international to my understanding. BNA will never need 6 international gates. Maybe AA or DL will move in there, and just happen to have 1 or two gates common use for international carriers.


They will have to be swing gates. My question is once work on the IAB begins, how do AA and DL keep their respective schedules with the loss of two gates each? Something has to give somewhere. MNAA might have to move some of the smaller airlines off B and to the new D, perhaps temporarily give AA a couple of gates there as well. It will be interesting.


Could DL and AA do some remote stands with busses if needed for those 2 lost gates each?
 
gustywinds
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:55 pm

AA and DL aren’t losing 2 gates. As mentioned above AA will take back 2 C gates from WN and DL will take 2 B gates from AS and SY. Those 2 airlines take over 2 C gates from WN.

This happens when the new D concourse opens.

I believe AA and DL will ultimately use the IAB gates when that opens.
 
Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:23 pm

gustywinds wrote:
AA and DL aren’t losing 2 gates. As mentioned above AA will take back 2 C gates from WN and DL will take 2 B gates from AS and SY. Those 2 airlines take over 2 C gates from WN.

This happens when the new D concourse opens.

I believe AA and DL will ultimately use the IAB gates when that opens.


So will Southwest regain the 4 gates its giving up when construction is finished?
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:06 pm

Fargo wrote:
gustywinds wrote:
AA and DL aren’t losing 2 gates. As mentioned above AA will take back 2 C gates from WN and DL will take 2 B gates from AS and SY. Those 2 airlines take over 2 C gates from WN.

This happens when the new D concourse opens.

I believe AA and DL will ultimately use the IAB gates when that opens.


So will Southwest regain the 4 gates its giving up when construction is finished?


Only time will tell. Regardless, WN still gains 2 gates. That’s 160-165 daily departures.
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:41 pm

Just more airline employee talk, but apparently B6 will be announcing MCO and JFK from BNA soon.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
reednavy
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:08 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Just more airline employee talk, but apparently B6 will be announcing MCO and JFK from BNA soon.

I wouldn't doubt it to be true at all. JFK would be a return, and hopefully better in performance. I wouldn't be shocked to see Delta upgauge to mainline in retaliation and to maybe cement the new "focus city" label.
MCO would be another nice gain, and bring the total airlines that fly there up to 4, with 3 being year-round once Spirit launches.
 
Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:25 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Just more airline employee talk, but apparently B6 will be announcing MCO and JFK from BNA soon.


JFK is a no brainer considering AUS, RDU and MSY all have flights there. MCO would be more surprising since there is already a plethora of competition on the route and it is not a high yielding destination.

In other news, Doug wrote an article in the Nashvilles Business Journal today regarding future expansion, calling on Congress to modernize the passenger facility charges in order to keep the airport expansion going. He stated funding is there to complete the current work, but beyond that (expansion of A, runway extension, Terminal 2, etc) will be challenging.

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/06/10/bna-ceo-modernize-federal-program-to-keep-airport.html

If WN is serious about making BNA an operating base and expanding to 200 flights as rumored, they ought to help pay for part of the expansion.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:13 pm

Fargo wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Just more airline employee talk, but apparently B6 will be announcing MCO and JFK from BNA soon.


JFK is a no brainer considering AUS, RDU and MSY all have flights there. MCO would be more surprising since there is already a plethora of competition on the route and it is not a high yielding destination.

In other news, Doug wrote an article in the Nashvilles Business Journal today regarding future expansion, calling on Congress to modernize the passenger facility charges in order to keep the airport expansion going. He stated funding is there to complete the current work, but beyond that (expansion of A, runway extension, Terminal 2, etc) will be challenging.

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/06/10/bna-ceo-modernize-federal-program-to-keep-airport.html

If WN is serious about making BNA an operating base and expanding to 200 flights as rumored, they ought to help pay for part of the expansion.


If B6 brings back JFK, it ought to do better than the first time around given the growth here. Curious how close they are to maxing out at JFK. I agree with your comment re: WN. They still have some good growth opportunities at BNA.
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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:21 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
I agree with your comment re: WN. They still have some good growth opportunities at BNA.


IMHO, WN ought to make BNA on par with MDW, BWI, DEN, LAS, DAL, etc. The Southeast is the largest and one of the fastest growing areas in the country, and BNA is WN's only large station that doesn't face the competition of a fortress hub (a la ATL).

If I were WN, I'd make my 4 largest stations MDW, BNA, DAL and DEN.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:27 am

GSP psgr wrote:
I hope that once WN has the gates, they'll finally make the big push to effectively make BNA their big Southeast "not-a-hub hub", adding GSP, RIC, LIT, MEM, and BHM. Outside the Southeast, PDX, IND, SLC, BDL, and maybe one of SNA or ONT would make sense as adds. Internationally....plus PUJ on a seasonal basis?


What's funny is that WN used to serve some of those cities from BNA.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:31 am

Fargo wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
I agree with your comment re: WN. They still have some good growth opportunities at BNA.


IMHO, WN ought to make BNA on par with MDW, BWI, DEN, LAS, DAL, etc. The Southeast is the largest and one of the fastest growing areas in the country, and BNA is WN's only large station that doesn't face the competition of a fortress hub (a la ATL).

If I were WN, I'd make my 4 largest stations MDW, BNA, DAL and DEN.


LAS and BWI are the 3rd and 4th biggest stations, they aren't going anywhere. They are putting a fair amount of money into BWI so it will only grow. I think the 4 biggest for the foreseeable future will be DEN/MDW/BWI/LAS with a good chance DEN runs away with being the largest. Dallas can't grow anymore and HOU will stay big because DAL can't be an international gateway. MCO will always be a good sized SE hub also. I do think they will move some ATL to BNA though.

No doubt BNA is going to be important for WN but some people are getting way ahead of themselves saying it will/should be 200 flight a day or top 4 anytime soon. Other airlines like DL are going to be fighting for capacity also at BNA so WN isn't going to just get all the growth/gates. Gate space also is going to limit things until they can do more expansion. And lets be honest 15% growth numbers can't keep up forever. Eventually, it will come back down to a more reasonable level.
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:57 am

Am I wrong to ask: Would BNA have been better off just building a completely new terminal complex rather than sticking with the existing terminal and spending a billion on improvements?
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:01 am

GSP psgr wrote:
Am I wrong to ask: Would BNA have been better off just building a completely new terminal complex rather than sticking with the existing terminal and spending a billion on improvements?


Not a silly question, but a new terminal would have been significantly more expensive. IND is probably the best analog and it cost $1.1 billion 15 years ago for a smaller facility than we are likely hypothetically discussing here.
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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:04 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
I agree with your comment re: WN. They still have some good growth opportunities at BNA.


IMHO, WN ought to make BNA on par with MDW, BWI, DEN, LAS, DAL, etc. The Southeast is the largest and one of the fastest growing areas in the country, and BNA is WN's only large station that doesn't face the competition of a fortress hub (a la ATL).

If I were WN, I'd make my 4 largest stations MDW, BNA, DAL and DEN.


LAS and BWI are the 3rd and 4th biggest stations, they aren't going anywhere. They are putting a fair amount of money into BWI so it will only grow. I think the 4 biggest for the foreseeable future will be DEN/MDW/BWI/LAS with a good chance DEN runs away with being the largest. Dallas can't grow anymore and HOU will stay big because DAL can't be an international gateway. MCO will always be a good sized SE hub also. I do think they will move some ATL to BNA though.

No doubt BNA is going to be important for WN but some people are getting way ahead of themselves saying it will/should be 200 flight a day or top 4 anytime soon. Other airlines like DL are going to be fighting for capacity also at BNA so WN isn't going to just get all the growth/gates. Gate space also is going to limit things until they can do more expansion. And lets be honest 15% growth numbers can't keep up forever. Eventually, it will come back down to a more reasonable level.


To clarify, when I say make BNA a top 4-5 station, I am talking over the long term here (i.e, the next decade or two), not within the next 5 years or so. Getting to 200 flights can't even happen until A is expanded and AA can move over, which will not happen until the later half of the 2020's. However, when the dust settles and BNA's current terminal is fully built out, WN could have somewhere in the range of 25-28 gates plus access to the common use IAB gates. That's enough for a pretty significant operation. I also think it is a matter of when WN either makes BNA a new operating base or transfers the ATL one to BNA.

If not exactly on par with MDW/BWI/DEN/LAS, I could see BNA someday being right underneath them.
Last edited by Fargo on Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:05 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
I agree with your comment re: WN. They still have some good growth opportunities at BNA.


IMHO, WN ought to make BNA on par with MDW, BWI, DEN, LAS, DAL, etc. The Southeast is the largest and one of the fastest growing areas in the country, and BNA is WN's only large station that doesn't face the competition of a fortress hub (a la ATL).

If I were WN, I'd make my 4 largest stations MDW, BNA, DAL and DEN.


LAS and BWI are the 3rd and 4th biggest stations, they aren't going anywhere. They are putting a fair amount of money into BWI so it will only grow. I think the 4 biggest for the foreseeable future will be DEN/MDW/BWI/LAS with a good chance DEN runs away with being the largest. Dallas can't grow anymore and HOU will stay big because DAL can't be an international gateway. MCO will always be a good sized SE hub also. I do think they will move some ATL to BNA though.

No doubt BNA is going to be important for WN but some people are getting way ahead of themselves saying it will/should be 200 flight a day or top 4 anytime soon. Other airlines like DL are going to be fighting for capacity also at BNA so WN isn't going to just get all the growth/gates. Gate space also is going to limit things until they can do more expansion. And lets be honest 15% growth numbers can't keep up forever. Eventually, it will come back down to a more reasonable level.


It'll come down to how many gates they'll be able to snag. I could see it in the 160-170 daily departure range for sure. MCI and STL are also supposed to get a piece of the pie when it comes to relieving MDW. Funny enough, what BWI is today, is what WN intended to do with BNA after AA closed shop. Southwest just couldn't get the gates from AA, and BWI was outperforming BNA on routes.
Last edited by southwest1675 on Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:08 am

Cubsrule wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
Am I wrong to ask: Would BNA have been better off just building a completely new terminal complex rather than sticking with the existing terminal and spending a billion on improvements?


Not a silly question, but a new terminal would have been significantly more expensive. IND is probably the best analog and it cost $1.1 billion 15 years ago for a smaller facility than we are likely hypothetically discussing here.


I am admittedly not a fan of the current layout, it's not the best design, but it is what it is. Tearing down and going for a similar design to say, AUS, RDU or IND would have been cost prohibitive and disruptive.

Now when it comes time to build Terminal 2 in the 2030's, it will be interesting to see how they design that.
 
Ramprat212
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:17 am

I think it’s ridiculous of MNAA to build a band new concourse and than hand over the keys to southwest for nothing. It should be all Common use gates or MNAA should approach Delta, AA and WN and say hey I have a shiny new concourse you want exclusive rights to it send me a Check for some of the cost.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:18 am

southwest1675 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Fargo wrote:

IMHO, WN ought to make BNA on par with MDW, BWI, DEN, LAS, DAL, etc. The Southeast is the largest and one of the fastest growing areas in the country, and BNA is WN's only large station that doesn't face the competition of a fortress hub (a la ATL).

If I were WN, I'd make my 4 largest stations MDW, BNA, DAL and DEN.


LAS and BWI are the 3rd and 4th biggest stations, they aren't going anywhere. They are putting a fair amount of money into BWI so it will only grow. I think the 4 biggest for the foreseeable future will be DEN/MDW/BWI/LAS with a good chance DEN runs away with being the largest. Dallas can't grow anymore and HOU will stay big because DAL can't be an international gateway. MCO will always be a good sized SE hub also. I do think they will move some ATL to BNA though.

No doubt BNA is going to be important for WN but some people are getting way ahead of themselves saying it will/should be 200 flight a day or top 4 anytime soon. Other airlines like DL are going to be fighting for capacity also at BNA so WN isn't going to just get all the growth/gates. Gate space also is going to limit things until they can do more expansion. And lets be honest 15% growth numbers can't keep up forever. Eventually, it will come back down to a more reasonable level.


It'll come down to how many gates they'll be able to snag. I could see it in the 160-170 daily departure range for sure. MCI and STL are also supposed to get a piece of the pie when it comes to relieving MDW.


I think 5-10 years from now this is where I see it. Talking mon-fri departures, not just a Sunday only number.

Looking much past that (and even that far) is too hard to predict in the industry where things are going, imo. So when we get into the 200+ talk and then say well not for decades, who knows what air travel/demographics/etc will look like that far out. Nashville/Austin probably are good examples of that. When people make predictions on here I am thinking max 10 years. If someone is saying more than that than I take back my comments.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:20 am

Ramprat212 wrote:
I think it’s ridiculous of MNAA to build a band new concourse and than hand over the keys to southwest for nothing. It should be all Common use gates or MNAA should approach Delta, AA and WN and say hey I have a shiny new concourse you want exclusive rights to it send me a Check for some of the cost.


There's a lot behind the scenes that'll we'll never know. I think it's a sign Southwest is really interested in BNA, when they want to take an entire brand new concourse. I've seen Southwest managers wearing hard hats talking to construction crews at night during the old concourse D demo.
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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:52 am

Jshank83 wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

LAS and BWI are the 3rd and 4th biggest stations, they aren't going anywhere. They are putting a fair amount of money into BWI so it will only grow. I think the 4 biggest for the foreseeable future will be DEN/MDW/BWI/LAS with a good chance DEN runs away with being the largest. Dallas can't grow anymore and HOU will stay big because DAL can't be an international gateway. MCO will always be a good sized SE hub also. I do think they will move some ATL to BNA though.

No doubt BNA is going to be important for WN but some people are getting way ahead of themselves saying it will/should be 200 flight a day or top 4 anytime soon. Other airlines like DL are going to be fighting for capacity also at BNA so WN isn't going to just get all the growth/gates. Gate space also is going to limit things until they can do more expansion. And lets be honest 15% growth numbers can't keep up forever. Eventually, it will come back down to a more reasonable level.


It'll come down to how many gates they'll be able to snag. I could see it in the 160-170 daily departure range for sure. MCI and STL are also supposed to get a piece of the pie when it comes to relieving MDW.


I think 5-10 years from now this is where I see it. Talking mon-fri departures, not just a Sunday only number.

Looking much past that (and even that far) is too hard to predict in the industry where things are going, imo. So when we get into the 200+ talk and then say well not for decades, who knows what air travel/demographics/etc will look like that far out. Nashville/Austin probably are good examples of that. When people make predictions on here I am thinking max 10 years. If someone is saying more than that than I take back my comments.


You're right, perhaps that is more realistic. 160-170 would put BNA among the likes of DAL, PHX, HOU, MCO, etc, not absolute top tier, but still up there.

Ramprat212 wrote:
I think it’s ridiculous of MNAA to build a band new concourse and than hand over the keys to southwest for nothing. It should be all Common use gates or MNAA should approach Delta, AA and WN and say hey I have a shiny new concourse you want exclusive rights to it send me a Check for some of the cost.


Why wouldn't they want WN to have it all? Who else is going to expand at BNA in the same matter WN is?

I know BNA is now a DL "focus city", but I highly doubt it will become on par with CVG/RDU. The most additions I see there is AUS, mainline to LGA/JFK and TATL service, plus the already (unofficially) announced club expansion.
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:27 am

Cubsrule wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
Am I wrong to ask: Would BNA have been better off just building a completely new terminal complex rather than sticking with the existing terminal and spending a billion on improvements?


Not a silly question, but a new terminal would have been significantly more expensive. IND is probably the best analog and it cost $1.1 billion 15 years ago for a smaller facility than we are likely hypothetically discussing here.


The new Kansas City Airport is supposed to be around $1.5B for a 35 gate complex, so that might be a better comparison. The new Delta hub at SLC $2.9B. BNA'd probably be closer to MCI than SLC (maybe something like $1.9B for 50ish gates?).
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:15 am

GSP psgr wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
Am I wrong to ask: Would BNA have been better off just building a completely new terminal complex rather than sticking with the existing terminal and spending a billion on improvements?


Not a silly question, but a new terminal would have been significantly more expensive. IND is probably the best analog and it cost $1.1 billion 15 years ago for a smaller facility than we are likely hypothetically discussing here.


The new Kansas City Airport is supposed to be around $1.5B for a 35 gate complex, so that might be a better comparison. The new Delta hub at SLC $2.9B. BNA'd probably be closer to MCI than SLC (maybe something like $1.9B for 50ish gates?).


The biggest issue would be where to build it. There was talk of making another parallel runway east of 2R/20L and putting a terminal between those, but there is a rock quarry and power lines that would need addressing. Putting it just south would require the FBO's and TN-ANG to move. The west side is now full with FedEx, Embraer, etc. It won't be cheap, that's for certain.

I just noticed on Google maps the big Peace sign on the southeast corner, near M'boro Pike/Old M'Boro Pike. Wonder how long it's been there?
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tphuang
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:39 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
Fargo wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Just more airline employee talk, but apparently B6 will be announcing MCO and JFK from BNA soon.


JFK is a no brainer considering AUS, RDU and MSY all have flights there. MCO would be more surprising since there is already a plethora of competition on the route and it is not a high yielding destination.

In other news, Doug wrote an article in the Nashvilles Business Journal today regarding future expansion, calling on Congress to modernize the passenger facility charges in order to keep the airport expansion going. He stated funding is there to complete the current work, but beyond that (expansion of A, runway extension, Terminal 2, etc) will be challenging.

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/06/10/bna-ceo-modernize-federal-program-to-keep-airport.html

If WN is serious about making BNA an operating base and expanding to 200 flights as rumored, they ought to help pay for part of the expansion.


If B6 brings back JFK, it ought to do better than the first time around given the growth here. Curious how close they are to maxing out at JFK. I agree with your comment re: WN. They still have some good growth opportunities at BNA.


JFK-BNA seems to be in consideration for a while now. B6 has enough slots to make 2x daily work. And if slots go away at JFK, there won't be any issues. I see it performing about as well as JFK-RDU/CLT/ATL, all profitable routes in their network.

Fargo wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
I agree with your comment re: WN. They still have some good growth opportunities at BNA.


IMHO, WN ought to make BNA on par with MDW, BWI, DEN, LAS, DAL, etc. The Southeast is the largest and one of the fastest growing areas in the country, and BNA is WN's only large station that doesn't face the competition of a fortress hub (a la ATL).

If I were WN, I'd make my 4 largest stations MDW, BNA, DAL and DEN.

DAL might be hard unless they can get more gates there, so I'd go with DEN, BWI, MDW, BNA long term.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:59 pm

Fargo wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
I agree with your comment re: WN. They still have some good growth opportunities at BNA.


IMHO, WN ought to make BNA on par with MDW, BWI, DEN, LAS, DAL, etc. The Southeast is the largest and one of the fastest growing areas in the country, and BNA is WN's only large station that doesn't face the competition of a fortress hub (a la ATL).

If I were WN, I'd make my 4 largest stations MDW, BNA, DAL and DEN.

DAL might be hard unless they can get more gates there, so I'd go with DEN, BWI, MDW, BNA long term.[/quote]

Pretty sure no new gates at DAL until 2025 (I think) as part of the 5-party agreement when the new terminal was built. BNA will probably pass them eventually.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:55 pm

I was doing some dummy bookings, and I noticed DL is offering quite a few connections through Nashville.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
TangoCharlie123
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:19 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
I was doing some dummy bookings, and I noticed DL is offering quite a few connections through Nashville.


What kind of routing were they putting through BNA? How far out was this?
 
CLJFlyer
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:41 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
I was doing some dummy bookings, and I noticed DL is offering quite a few connections through Nashville.


Can you give some examples? I've always looked out for things like this, but never seem to find connections through Nashville.

BNA Twitter account just announced a new record of 1.66 million passengers for May!
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:10 pm

CLJFlyer wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
I was doing some dummy bookings, and I noticed DL is offering quite a few connections through Nashville.


Can you give some examples? I've always looked out for things like this, but never seem to find connections through Nashville.

BNA Twitter account just announced a new record of 1.66 million passengers for May!


I was looking in the winter. Found JFK-BNA-LAX, RDU-BNA-DTW, LAX-BNA-LGA. Those were just a couple.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
TangoCharlie123
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:25 am

southwest1675 wrote:
CLJFlyer wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
I was doing some dummy bookings, and I noticed DL is offering quite a few connections through Nashville.


Can you give some examples? I've always looked out for things like this, but never seem to find connections through Nashville.

BNA Twitter account just announced a new record of 1.66 million passengers for May!


I was looking in the winter. Found JFK-BNA-LAX, RDU-BNA-DTW, LAX-BNA-LGA. Those were just a couple.


If DL is going to consistently offer JFK-LAX vis BNA, hopefully it means they’ll finally make BNA-JFK a mainline flight.
 
HeyHey
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:07 pm

The 1.66 million passengers through BNA in May represents a ~17% increase compared to May, 2018. There were 1.418 million who passed through BNA last year during May. The growth continues and hasn't seen a slowdown yet. Assuming the national economy doesn't tank I think it is safe to say BNA will have >18 million passengers this year.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:25 pm

HeyHey wrote:
The 1.66 million passengers through BNA in May represents a ~17% increase compared to May, 2018. There were 1.418 million who passed through BNA last year during May. The growth continues and hasn't seen a slowdown yet. Assuming the national economy doesn't tank I think it is safe to say BNA will have >18 million passengers this year.


We have had some debates about O&D percentage, but the press on the 1.66 million also gave us a number on originating passengers that may interest certain posters. Assuming that 1.66 is evenly split between arrivals and departures, that gives us 830,000 departing passengers. The press said an average of 22,000 passengers screened per day (i.e. 22,000 originating passengers per day). That's 660,000 originating passengers for the month or about 79.5 percent O&D.
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:48 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
HeyHey wrote:
The 1.66 million passengers through BNA in May represents a ~17% increase compared to May, 2018. There were 1.418 million who passed through BNA last year during May. The growth continues and hasn't seen a slowdown yet. Assuming the national economy doesn't tank I think it is safe to say BNA will have >18 million passengers this year.


We have had some debates about O&D percentage, but the press on the 1.66 million also gave us a number on originating passengers that may interest certain posters. Assuming that 1.66 is evenly split between arrivals and departures, that gives us 830,000 departing passengers. The press said an average of 22,000 passengers screened per day (i.e. 22,000 originating passengers per day). That's 660,000 originating passengers for the month or about 79.5 percent O&D.


That makes sense considering the MNAA CEO last year stated that about 12-15% of BNA traffic was connecting.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
bnatraveler
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:38 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
HeyHey wrote:
The 1.66 million passengers through BNA in May represents a ~17% increase compared to May, 2018. There were 1.418 million who passed through BNA last year during May. The growth continues and hasn't seen a slowdown yet. Assuming the national economy doesn't tank I think it is safe to say BNA will have >18 million passengers this year.


We have had some debates about O&D percentage, but the press on the 1.66 million also gave us a number on originating passengers that may interest certain posters. Assuming that 1.66 is evenly split between arrivals and departures, that gives us 830,000 departing passengers. The press said an average of 22,000 passengers screened per day (i.e. 22,000 originating passengers per day). That's 660,000 originating passengers for the month or about 79.5 percent O&D.


That makes sense considering the MNAA CEO last year stated that about 12-15% of BNA traffic was connecting.


Which, if you further assume that Southwest is roughly 50% of the traffic (415,000 passengers) at the airport and they take virtually all of the connecting traffic (170,000 passengers), then they would be 41% connecting. That is higher than the reported numbers from the airline and airport. I am going to ask for a refresh of numbers from my MNAA contact.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:52 pm

2018: 16M passengers. BNA advises 22,000 avg go thru security each day. 365 x 22,000 = 8,030,00 Departing Passengers/Yr. Double to get Arriving and you have 16M/Passengers. All O&D.

Too bad BNA makes connecting passengers go thru TSA. LOL LOL
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:53 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
2018: 16M passengers. BNA advises 22,000 avg go thru security each day. 365 x 22,000 = 8,030,00 Departing Passengers/Yr. Double to get Arriving and you have 16M/Passengers. All O&D.

Too bad BNA makes connecting passengers go thru TSA. LOL LOL


BNA doesn't make connecting passengers go through TSA LOL LOL
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
Lexy
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:41 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
2018: 16M passengers. BNA advises 22,000 avg go thru security each day. 365 x 22,000 = 8,030,00 Departing Passengers/Yr. Double to get Arriving and you have 16M/Passengers. All O&D.

Too bad BNA makes connecting passengers go thru TSA. LOL LOL


Oh for god's sake.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:00 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
Duh....


With you, I can never tell if it’s sarcasm or not...
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:03 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
2018: 16M passengers. BNA advises 22,000 avg go thru security each day. 365 x 22,000 = 8,030,00 Departing Passengers/Yr. Double to get Arriving and you have 16M/Passengers. All O&D.

Too bad BNA makes connecting passengers go thru TSA. LOL LOL


The 22k is not a full year 2018 number, but don’t let the facts get in your way.
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Bluegrass60
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:05 pm

Nashville International Airport (BNA) set a new monthly record for total number of passengers with 1,663,780 passengers in May 2019, an eight percent increase over the previous record set in October 2018 (1,538,312 passengers) and a 17 percent increase over last May’s passenger volume (1,418,316 passengers).

BNA has set passenger records in each of the last six calendar years, reaching 16 million passengers in 2018, an increase of 13.2 percent over the previous year.

On average, approximately 22,000 departing passengers are screened through the security checkpoint at BNA per day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 2018...BNA handled 15,996,194 passengers. 15,996,194 divided by 365 = 43,825 total passengers/day. @ 1/2 are arriving and @1/2 departing. 43,825 divided by 2 = 21,912 passengers/day that depart BNA on average and approx the same number of passengers who are screened thru security each day (per MNAA Press Release 22,000/day on average ). Obviously a connecting passenger at BNA would not need to go thru security as they would have done that at their departure airport. So....all you cheerleaders are correct..... there is no connecting traffic at BNA. It is all O&D. ROTFLMAO
 
boslax
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:45 pm

Here's an estimate of the local/connect passengers, based on CY 2018 data.

- Total BNA passengers are 16.0 million (Source:BNA Airport)
- BNA O&D passengers are 13.4 million (Source: USDOT, Sabre MIDT)
- Subtracting O&D from total yields 2.6 million estimated connecting passenger thru BNA
- Connecting passengers account for 16% of the total BNA passengers
 
Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:41 pm

Of course there is connecting traffic, no one is disputing that, but the point is over 3/4ths of the traffic is O&D. What’s the big freaking deal?

I’m getting tired of this Bluegrass crap being spewed out all the time. SDF isn’t going to touch BNA, IND, RDU, CVG or any similar city anytime soon because it’s not as vibrant of a city and the economic factors aren’t there for them to have more air service, end of story.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:56 pm

Fargo - I only respond to the snarky comments made. I suspect actual O&D is in the 70% range on current volume. BNA has much more service than it would because of the WN Focus. That should be celebrated and supported. Great to hear you are so knowledgeable about the vibrancy or lack thereof in the region's cities. BNA/Nashville has had tremendous growth and I hope it continues.

SDF/Louisville are headed in the right direction:
*CBRE Hotels Americas Research specializes in analyzing and reporting on both the historical and future performance of the lodging industry. They measured the growth performance of the top 60 major markets in the first quarter of this year (2019), showing Louisville took the top growth spot outranking Nashville, Austin and Raleigh-Durham as well as major markets including New York City, Seattle, San Francisco and Denver.
* SDF is one of the fastest growing airports in the country with 12% growth yoy.
* The closest major airport to BNA is CHA at 132 miles;TYS at 175 miles. (Those 3 airports handled 19.2M passengers in 2018). (note that SDF at 172 miles is closer to BNA than TYS) Within 155 miles of SDF are: IND, CVG, DAY, LEX, EVV. (Those 6 airports handled 23.2M in 2018....and none of those airports have a connecting complex as large as WN). Say what you will....but there is more economic activity within 125 miles of SDF than in the same radius of BNA. There is also more people (9.2M v 6M). Not taking anything away from Nashville's growth...it has been spectacular....but the other cities in the region are also growing.
 
runner13
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:49 pm

This is a Nashville Aviation Thread. Not a Compare SDF to BNA thread. You always have to derail the topic with snarky comments to try and undercut BNA. That’s why no one likes you and everyone should ignore your comments. I find it funny that the thread usually goes quite for a few days after you make your comments. I ask that everyone in here please ignore Bluegrass’s comments and stay on topic to Nashville and the growth. If you ignore him he doesn’t comment for a few days. I realize that I am bringing attention to him now. But everyone please stop responding to him.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:30 pm

Please keep this thread on topic. Feel free to start a separate thread for certain topics.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:21 pm

Not sure if this will stick, but May 11th shows BNA-DTW at 7x with a mix of A319's & 717's. If the frequencies stick, this could be a reaction to an impending BNA-DTW flight on Spirit.

...or a market of 800 combined in Q1 that indicates decent market growth may contribute to the addition of seats and frequencies in this market.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...

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