Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:45 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Fargo wrote:
jplatts wrote:

DL has Sky Clubs at some airports other than its current hubs or focus cities, including at ORD, DEN, DFW, FLL, IND, JAX, MEM, MIA, MKE, MSY, EWR, PHL, PHX, PDX, SAN, SFO, TPA, and DCA. There is also a DL Sky Club under construction at AUS that is scheduled to open this summer.


I know that DL has Sky Clubs at non hub/focus city airports, but I am saying Nashville getting a 10,000 square foot club is pretty excessive for a non-hub/focus city, unless DL has bigger plans for Nashville long term.


I think, though, that you're ignoring the broader reality of the BNA Sky Club versus many other outstation clubs. The footprint is essentially the same as it was 15 years ago, when BNA was pretty much just another station in the southeast for DL. Relative to the size of the airline/other stations, BNA was actually larger for NW than for DL pre-merger. It was one of the few NW outstations in the non-Florida southeast not outsourced in the 2005 bankruptcy. So, DL added tremendously to its passenger base with the merger but did not add commensurate club space.

Over the next decade, DL effectively expanded numerous outstation clubs through a combination of relocating into NW's larger spaces (e.g. ORD), relocation into other larger spaces (e.g. MKE), and new terminals (e.g. IND, JAX, RDU). BNA needs to catch up.

While I'm not sure of timing (though it won't be next week or likely even next year), DL is going to have a TATL flight at BNA at some point. That's the obvious next legacy TATL flight. That, too, requires club space.


Question though, how big are the Clubs in some of those other large outstations like IND, MKE, etc? Once again, I agree 100% the current club needs to expand, but 6,000-7,000 SF would be more reasonable for a large outstation (I believe RDU is something only like 6,000 SF). 10,000 SF rivals that of some of DL's hubs, do they plan on having more pax coming through due to a future service expansion of some sorts?

Also, I am still wondering where they are going to put this, is this one of the new clubs being constructed as part of the IAB expansion?

Just curious, do you know for a fact that a TATL flight will come to BNA at some point or is that just your educated guess? I struggle to see how they could justify it with ATL so close. I would think LH to FRA would happen before DL to CDG/AMS.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:00 pm

Fargo wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Fargo wrote:

I know that DL has Sky Clubs at non hub/focus city airports, but I am saying Nashville getting a 10,000 square foot club is pretty excessive for a non-hub/focus city, unless DL has bigger plans for Nashville long term.


I think, though, that you're ignoring the broader reality of the BNA Sky Club versus many other outstation clubs. The footprint is essentially the same as it was 15 years ago, when BNA was pretty much just another station in the southeast for DL. Relative to the size of the airline/other stations, BNA was actually larger for NW than for DL pre-merger. It was one of the few NW outstations in the non-Florida southeast not outsourced in the 2005 bankruptcy. So, DL added tremendously to its passenger base with the merger but did not add commensurate club space.

Over the next decade, DL effectively expanded numerous outstation clubs through a combination of relocating into NW's larger spaces (e.g. ORD), relocation into other larger spaces (e.g. MKE), and new terminals (e.g. IND, JAX, RDU). BNA needs to catch up.

While I'm not sure of timing (though it won't be next week or likely even next year), DL is going to have a TATL flight at BNA at some point. That's the obvious next legacy TATL flight. That, too, requires club space.


Question though, how big are the Clubs in some of those other large outstations like IND, MKE, etc? Once again, I agree 100% the current club needs to expand, but 6,000-7,000 SF would be more reasonable for a large outstation (I believe RDU is something only like 6,000 SF). 10,000 SF rivals that of some of DL's hubs, do they plan on having more pax coming through due to a future service expansion of some sorts?

Also, I am still wondering where they are going to put this, is this one of the new clubs being constructed as part of the IAB expansion?

Just curious, do you know for a fact that a TATL flight will come to BNA at some point or is that just your educated guess? I struggle to see how they could justify it with ATL so close. I would think LH to FRA would happen before DL to CDG/AMS.


Sky Club size isn't necessarily associated with the amount of air service, it is determined by airport layout: RDU and IND have tiny Sky Clubs, but that is because they can't be expanded due to the layout of the airport. On average most Sky Clubs are at least <7,500 square feet, compared to RDU and IND which are both around 5,000 square feet.
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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:11 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I think, though, that you're ignoring the broader reality of the BNA Sky Club versus many other outstation clubs. The footprint is essentially the same as it was 15 years ago, when BNA was pretty much just another station in the southeast for DL. Relative to the size of the airline/other stations, BNA was actually larger for NW than for DL pre-merger. It was one of the few NW outstations in the non-Florida southeast not outsourced in the 2005 bankruptcy. So, DL added tremendously to its passenger base with the merger but did not add commensurate club space.

Over the next decade, DL effectively expanded numerous outstation clubs through a combination of relocating into NW's larger spaces (e.g. ORD), relocation into other larger spaces (e.g. MKE), and new terminals (e.g. IND, JAX, RDU). BNA needs to catch up.

While I'm not sure of timing (though it won't be next week or likely even next year), DL is going to have a TATL flight at BNA at some point. That's the obvious next legacy TATL flight. That, too, requires club space.


Question though, how big are the Clubs in some of those other large outstations like IND, MKE, etc? Once again, I agree 100% the current club needs to expand, but 6,000-7,000 SF would be more reasonable for a large outstation (I believe RDU is something only like 6,000 SF). 10,000 SF rivals that of some of DL's hubs, do they plan on having more pax coming through due to a future service expansion of some sorts?

Also, I am still wondering where they are going to put this, is this one of the new clubs being constructed as part of the IAB expansion?

Just curious, do you know for a fact that a TATL flight will come to BNA at some point or is that just your educated guess? I struggle to see how they could justify it with ATL so close. I would think LH to FRA would happen before DL to CDG/AMS.


Sky Club size isn't necessarily associated with the amount of air service, it is determined by airport layout: RDU and IND have tiny Sky Clubs, but that is because they can't be expanded due to the layout of the airport. On average most Sky Clubs are at least <7,500 square feet, compared to RDU and IND which are both around 5,000 square feet.


BNA has an even tighter footprint than RDU/IND, I am struggling to see where this expansion will go. I still think 10,000 SF is an awful lot for an outstation, it would be interesting to hear DL's reasoning for this.

Don't get me wrong, this is excellent news for BNA, I am just a bit dumbfounded at the amount of space here.
 
dafunk10
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:18 pm

Fargo wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Fargo wrote:

Question though, how big are the Clubs in some of those other large outstations like IND, MKE, etc? Once again, I agree 100% the current club needs to expand, but 6,000-7,000 SF would be more reasonable for a large outstation (I believe RDU is something only like 6,000 SF). 10,000 SF rivals that of some of DL's hubs, do they plan on having more pax coming through due to a future service expansion of some sorts?

Also, I am still wondering where they are going to put this, is this one of the new clubs being constructed as part of the IAB expansion?

Just curious, do you know for a fact that a TATL flight will come to BNA at some point or is that just your educated guess? I struggle to see how they could justify it with ATL so close. I would think LH to FRA would happen before DL to CDG/AMS.


Sky Club size isn't necessarily associated with the amount of air service, it is determined by airport layout: RDU and IND have tiny Sky Clubs, but that is because they can't be expanded due to the layout of the airport. On average most Sky Clubs are at least <7,500 square feet, compared to RDU and IND which are both around 5,000 square feet.


BNA has an even tighter footprint than RDU/IND, I am struggling to see where this expansion will go. I still think 10,000 SF is an awful lot for an outstation, it would be interesting to hear DL's reasoning for this.

Don't get me wrong, this is excellent news for BNA, I am just a bit dumbfounded at the amount of space here.



I’m wondering if the new SC will be not an expansion of the current SC, but in a different space....like at the current end of D, which is rumored to eventually be the elbow of an expanded D concourse....2nd level SC similar to the Admirals club in C

Complete speculation on my part....I’ll see if I can get any info from the folks working the SC (who are always outstanding) next time I’m there
 
Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:30 pm

dafunk10 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Sky Club size isn't necessarily associated with the amount of air service, it is determined by airport layout: RDU and IND have tiny Sky Clubs, but that is because they can't be expanded due to the layout of the airport. On average most Sky Clubs are at least <7,500 square feet, compared to RDU and IND which are both around 5,000 square feet.


BNA has an even tighter footprint than RDU/IND, I am struggling to see where this expansion will go. I still think 10,000 SF is an awful lot for an outstation, it would be interesting to hear DL's reasoning for this.

Don't get me wrong, this is excellent news for BNA, I am just a bit dumbfounded at the amount of space here.



I’m wondering if the new SC will be not an expansion of the current SC, but in a different space....like at the current end of D, which is rumored to eventually be the elbow of an expanded D concourse....2nd level SC similar to the Admirals club in C

Complete speculation on my part....I’ll see if I can get any info from the folks working the SC (who are always outstanding) next time I’m there


No, WN will be taking all of the gates in D, and there wouldn't be enough room anyway. My only guess is the ticketing/baggage terminal wings expansion is increasing the footprint of the area that will open some space to allow DL to expand the Club.

However, it has been rumored that two new club spaces will be built above the new IAB when it is built, so is this part of that or a separate project.

southwest1675, do you know anything about this?
 
Jshank83
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:38 pm

Went thru the Southwest MAX changes for June/July

These are outbound only, inbound might not match up for all of them (ie STL is the same outbound mon-fri, but lost and inbound)
I also didn't look at Saturdays

mon-fri down a depature from original schedule
ATL/MCI/LAX/LAS/SAN

Sunday
SAN/ATL/STL down 1x
BWI/MDW down 2x

Total flights
Mon-Fri 119
Sun 126
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:03 pm

Fargo wrote:
BNA has an even tighter footprint than RDU/IND, I am struggling to see where this expansion will go. I still think 10,000 SF is an awful lot for an outstation, it would be interesting to hear DL's reasoning for this.


What are you basing this off of?
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dafunk10
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:11 pm

Fargo wrote:
dafunk10 wrote:
Fargo wrote:

BNA has an even tighter footprint than RDU/IND, I am struggling to see where this expansion will go. I still think 10,000 SF is an awful lot for an outstation, it would be interesting to hear DL's reasoning for this.

Don't get me wrong, this is excellent news for BNA, I am just a bit dumbfounded at the amount of space here.



I’m wondering if the new SC will be not an expansion of the current SC, but in a different space....like at the current end of D, which is rumored to eventually be the elbow of an expanded D concourse....2nd level SC similar to the Admirals club in C

Complete speculation on my part....I’ll see if I can get any info from the folks working the SC (who are always outstanding) next time I’m there


No, WN will be taking all of the gates in D, and there wouldn't be enough room anyway. My only guess is the ticketing/baggage terminal wings expansion is increasing the footprint of the area that will open some space to allow DL to expand the Club.

However, it has been rumored that two new club spaces will be built above the new IAB when it is built, so is this part of that or a separate project.

southwest1675, do you know anything about this?



Sorry, brain fart....I meant concourse B instead of D, of course (currently trying to navigate out a 5 hour trip BNA-ATl-MIA that is turning into a 10+ hour trip due to ATL weather)
 
Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:18 pm

dafunk10 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
dafunk10 wrote:


I’m wondering if the new SC will be not an expansion of the current SC, but in a different space....like at the current end of D, which is rumored to eventually be the elbow of an expanded D concourse....2nd level SC similar to the Admirals club in C

Complete speculation on my part....I’ll see if I can get any info from the folks working the SC (who are always outstanding) next time I’m there


No, WN will be taking all of the gates in D, and there wouldn't be enough room anyway. My only guess is the ticketing/baggage terminal wings expansion is increasing the footprint of the area that will open some space to allow DL to expand the Club.

However, it has been rumored that two new club spaces will be built above the new IAB when it is built, so is this part of that or a separate project.

southwest1675, do you know anything about this?



Sorry, brain fart....I meant concourse B instead of D, of course (currently trying to navigate out a 5 hour trip BNA-ATl-MIA that is turning into a 10+ hour trip due to ATL weather)


The current preference in the master plan update is to rebuild/expand A into a L shaped concourse, as that would be easier for aircraft flow as opposed to turning B into a mirror image of D.

Even so, the expansion of B is not part of the BNA Vision and this is scheduled to open next year according to that poster. I guess we'll have to wait for an announcement on the Delta News Hub to see more details on this.
 
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:29 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Fargo wrote:
BNA has an even tighter footprint than RDU/IND, I am struggling to see where this expansion will go. I still think 10,000 SF is an awful lot for an outstation, it would be interesting to hear DL's reasoning for this.


What are you basing this off of?


To clarify, I am talking about the concourses. BNA has tighter concourses than RDU/IND because they were built over 30 years ago for a hub operation that consisted largely of regional jets and turboprops. RDU and IND have wider and more modern concourses because they were both built within the last 15 years. BNA's Concourse B (where the Sky Club is located) in particular is very narrow and does not meet current standards for hold room space. They were scheduled to address this as part of the BNA Vision project, but it was eliminated and put off until a future post-BNA Vision project.

As such, there is limited room to expand the Sky Club within the current footprint of Concourse B, unless they will somehow be utilizing part of the new space being built for the expansion of the ticketing and baggage claim space (the terminal wings project).

I'm sure DL will be putting out an official announcement on the Delta News Hub sometime this year that will answer questions.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:51 pm

Fargo wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Fargo wrote:
BNA has an even tighter footprint than RDU/IND, I am struggling to see where this expansion will go. I still think 10,000 SF is an awful lot for an outstation, it would be interesting to hear DL's reasoning for this.


What are you basing this off of?


To clarify, I am talking about the concourses. BNA has tighter concourses than RDU/IND because they were built over 30 years ago for a hub operation that consisted largely of regional jets and turboprops. RDU and IND have wider and more modern concourses because they were both built within the last 15 years. BNA's Concourse B (where the Sky Club is located) in particular is very narrow and does not meet current standards for hold room space. They were scheduled to address this as part of the BNA Vision project, but it was eliminated and put off until a future post-BNA Vision project.

As such, there is limited room to expand the Sky Club within the current footprint of Concourse B, unless they will somehow be utilizing part of the new space being built for the expansion of the ticketing and baggage claim space (the terminal wings project).

I'm sure DL will be putting out an official announcement on the Delta News Hub sometime this year that will answer questions.


Sorry this is a little off track, but the Sky Clubs in RDU and IND are not "in the concourses."The Sky Club in RDU is in a room on the second floor overlooking the concourse, and the Sky Club in IND is in the hallway in between TSA and the A concourse. So the sizes of the RDU and IND concourses are not associated.

My guess is part of BNA vision allows for the expansion
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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:57 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

What are you basing this off of?


To clarify, I am talking about the concourses. BNA has tighter concourses than RDU/IND because they were built over 30 years ago for a hub operation that consisted largely of regional jets and turboprops. RDU and IND have wider and more modern concourses because they were both built within the last 15 years. BNA's Concourse B (where the Sky Club is located) in particular is very narrow and does not meet current standards for hold room space. They were scheduled to address this as part of the BNA Vision project, but it was eliminated and put off until a future post-BNA Vision project.

As such, there is limited room to expand the Sky Club within the current footprint of Concourse B, unless they will somehow be utilizing part of the new space being built for the expansion of the ticketing and baggage claim space (the terminal wings project).

I'm sure DL will be putting out an official announcement on the Delta News Hub sometime this year that will answer questions.


Sorry this is a little off track, but the Sky Clubs in RDU and IND are not "in the concourses."The Sky Club in RDU is in a room on the second floor overlooking the concourse, and the Sky Club in IND is in the hallway in between TSA and the A concourse. So the sizes of the RDU and IND concourses are not associated.

My guess is part of BNA vision allows for the expansion


Indeed, two new clubs are supposedly coming online with the new international arrivals facility, but that is not scheduled to open until late 2023 and this Sky Club expansion is suppose to be opening next year. I'm really confused.

BTW, how big is IND's Sky Club square footage wise?
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:48 pm

Fargo wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Fargo wrote:

To clarify, I am talking about the concourses. BNA has tighter concourses than RDU/IND because they were built over 30 years ago for a hub operation that consisted largely of regional jets and turboprops. RDU and IND have wider and more modern concourses because they were both built within the last 15 years. BNA's Concourse B (where the Sky Club is located) in particular is very narrow and does not meet current standards for hold room space. They were scheduled to address this as part of the BNA Vision project, but it was eliminated and put off until a future post-BNA Vision project.

As such, there is limited room to expand the Sky Club within the current footprint of Concourse B, unless they will somehow be utilizing part of the new space being built for the expansion of the ticketing and baggage claim space (the terminal wings project).

I'm sure DL will be putting out an official announcement on the Delta News Hub sometime this year that will answer questions.


Sorry this is a little off track, but the Sky Clubs in RDU and IND are not "in the concourses."The Sky Club in RDU is in a room on the second floor overlooking the concourse, and the Sky Club in IND is in the hallway in between TSA and the A concourse. So the sizes of the RDU and IND concourses are not associated.

My guess is part of BNA vision allows for the expansion


Indeed, two new clubs are supposedly coming online with the new international arrivals facility, but that is not scheduled to open until late 2023 and this Sky Club expansion is suppose to be opening next year. I'm really confused.

BTW, how big is IND's Sky Club square footage wise?


Is there a public statement somewhere that the clubs are not coming until the IAB opens? If so, I’ve missed it. Given that the Sky Club is almost certainly going in new construction, it’s reasonable to assume that the airport asked DL what they wanted and gave it to them. This may be the first outstation Sky Club in newly-constructed space since the merger.
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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:59 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Sorry this is a little off track, but the Sky Clubs in RDU and IND are not "in the concourses."The Sky Club in RDU is in a room on the second floor overlooking the concourse, and the Sky Club in IND is in the hallway in between TSA and the A concourse. So the sizes of the RDU and IND concourses are not associated.

My guess is part of BNA vision allows for the expansion


Indeed, two new clubs are supposedly coming online with the new international arrivals facility, but that is not scheduled to open until late 2023 and this Sky Club expansion is suppose to be opening next year. I'm really confused.

BTW, how big is IND's Sky Club square footage wise?


Is there a public statement somewhere that the clubs are not coming until the IAB opens? If so, I’ve missed it. Given that the Sky Club is almost certainly going in new construction, it’s reasonable to assume that the airport asked DL what they wanted and gave it to them. This may be the first outstation Sky Club in newly-constructed space since the merger.


There isn’t, as there is not yet a spec sheet detailing the new IAB yet. This Sky Club expansion must be separate. I’m just wondering where it will go
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:50 pm

Fargo wrote:
dafunk10 wrote:
Fargo wrote:

BNA has an even tighter footprint than RDU/IND, I am struggling to see where this expansion will go. I still think 10,000 SF is an awful lot for an outstation, it would be interesting to hear DL's reasoning for this.

Don't get me wrong, this is excellent news for BNA, I am just a bit dumbfounded at the amount of space here.



I’m wondering if the new SC will be not an expansion of the current SC, but in a different space....like at the current end of D, which is rumored to eventually be the elbow of an expanded D concourse....2nd level SC similar to the Admirals club in C

Complete speculation on my part....I’ll see if I can get any info from the folks working the SC (who are always outstanding) next time I’m there


No, WN will be taking all of the gates in D, and there wouldn't be enough room anyway. My only guess is the ticketing/baggage terminal wings expansion is increasing the footprint of the area that will open some space to allow DL to expand the Club.

However, it has been rumored that two new club spaces will be built above the new IAB when it is built, so is this part of that or a separate project.

southwest1675, do you know anything about this?


WN will have all 6 gates on D, and will be acquiring all of the newly expanded counter space coming with the new terminal wings on that side. Supposedly a new operations center and large crew space will be in Concourse D as well. Not sure what all will come of this, since these are rumors/rumblings of employees/supervisors. I will say this. During the Concourse D demo, there are WN supervisors and such talking with construction workers and such.
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bnatraveler
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:44 am

I think what most posters seem to be missing about the DL Skyclub expansion announcement is that it will be

(a) 10,000 *more* sqft, not 10,000 total. I think the current SkyClub is somewhere around 1,300 sqft, so that means that it will be 11,300 sqft which is really big for an outstation. [note: current size edited based on an update provided down thread]

(b) 2020 is the delivery date for the ticketing area expansions plus terminal D, not IAB as that is not until 2022/23. if this expansion is happening by 2020 (which they say it is), it must mean a relocation of the SkyClub and it might be done in cooperation with the ticketing area expansion.
Last edited by bnatraveler on Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:57 am

Fargo wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Fargo wrote:

To clarify, I am talking about the concourses. BNA has tighter concourses than RDU/IND because they were built over 30 years ago for a hub operation that consisted largely of regional jets and turboprops. RDU and IND have wider and more modern concourses because they were both built within the last 15 years. BNA's Concourse B (where the Sky Club is located) in particular is very narrow and does not meet current standards for hold room space. They were scheduled to address this as part of the BNA Vision project, but it was eliminated and put off until a future post-BNA Vision project.

As such, there is limited room to expand the Sky Club within the current footprint of Concourse B, unless they will somehow be utilizing part of the new space being built for the expansion of the ticketing and baggage claim space (the terminal wings project).

I'm sure DL will be putting out an official announcement on the Delta News Hub sometime this year that will answer questions.


Sorry this is a little off track, but the Sky Clubs in RDU and IND are not "in the concourses."The Sky Club in RDU is in a room on the second floor overlooking the concourse, and the Sky Club in IND is in the hallway in between TSA and the A concourse. So the sizes of the RDU and IND concourses are not associated.

My guess is part of BNA vision allows for the expansion


Indeed, two new clubs are supposedly coming online with the new international arrivals facility, but that is not scheduled to open until late 2023 and this Sky Club expansion is suppose to be opening next year. I'm really confused.

BTW, how big is IND's Sky Club square footage wise?


4,800
https://www.indianapolisairport.com/din ... a-sky-club

bnatraveler wrote:
I think what most posters seem to be missing about the DL Skyclub expansion announcement is that it will be

(a) 10,000 *more* sqft, not 10,000 total. I think the current SkyClub is somewhere around 5,000 sqtt, so that means that it will be 15,000 sqft which is really big for an outstation.

(b) 2020 is the delivery date for the ticketing area expansions plus terminal D, not IAB as that is not until 2022/23. if this expansion is happening by 2020 (which they say it is), it must mean a relocation of the SkyClub and it might be done in cooperation with the ticketing area expansion.


Current Sky Club is 1,300 sq feet, definitely needs to be expanded
https://news.delta.com/delta-sky-club-i ... novation-0
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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:52 am

southwest1675 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
dafunk10 wrote:


I’m wondering if the new SC will be not an expansion of the current SC, but in a different space....like at the current end of D, which is rumored to eventually be the elbow of an expanded D concourse....2nd level SC similar to the Admirals club in C

Complete speculation on my part....I’ll see if I can get any info from the folks working the SC (who are always outstanding) next time I’m there


No, WN will be taking all of the gates in D, and there wouldn't be enough room anyway. My only guess is the ticketing/baggage terminal wings expansion is increasing the footprint of the area that will open some space to allow DL to expand the Club.

However, it has been rumored that two new club spaces will be built above the new IAB when it is built, so is this part of that or a separate project.

southwest1675, do you know anything about this?


WN will have all 6 gates on D, and will be acquiring all of the newly expanded counter space coming with the new terminal wings on that side. Supposedly a new operations center and large crew space will be in Concourse D as well. Not sure what all will come of this, since these are rumors/rumblings of employees/supervisors. I will say this. During the Concourse D demo, there are WN supervisors and such talking with construction workers and such.


I know your a WN guy, but what about any rumors on the DL side and the expanded Sky Club. Is DL planning on increasing service?
 
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:59 am

bnatraveler wrote:
I think what most posters seem to be missing about the DL Skyclub expansion announcement is that it will be

(a) 10,000 *more* sqft, not 10,000 total. I think the current SkyClub is somewhere around 1,300 sqft, so that means that it will be 11,300 sqft which is really big for an outstation. [note: current size edited based on an update provided down thread]

(b) 2020 is the delivery date for the ticketing area expansions plus terminal D, not IAB as that is not until 2022/23. if this expansion is happening by 2020 (which they say it is), it must mean a relocation of the SkyClub and it might be done in cooperation with the ticketing area expansion.


I’m just wondering why they’d bother with that big of a club without an increase in service, since there have been no indications that DL has any intention of making Nashville a focus city (and it wouldn’t make sense for them to do so).
 
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antoniemey
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:42 am

Fargo wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Fargo wrote:

Indeed, two new clubs are supposedly coming online with the new international arrivals facility, but that is not scheduled to open until late 2023 and this Sky Club expansion is suppose to be opening next year. I'm really confused.

BTW, how big is IND's Sky Club square footage wise?


Is there a public statement somewhere that the clubs are not coming until the IAB opens? If so, I’ve missed it. Given that the Sky Club is almost certainly going in new construction, it’s reasonable to assume that the airport asked DL what they wanted and gave it to them. This may be the first outstation Sky Club in newly-constructed space since the merger.


There isn’t, as there is not yet a spec sheet detailing the new IAB yet. This Sky Club expansion must be separate. I’m just wondering where it will go


Image

Looks like there's plenty of room right by where it is if they're willing to knock down some external walls.
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:49 am

Fargo wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Fargo wrote:

No, WN will be taking all of the gates in D, and there wouldn't be enough room anyway. My only guess is the ticketing/baggage terminal wings expansion is increasing the footprint of the area that will open some space to allow DL to expand the Club.

However, it has been rumored that two new club spaces will be built above the new IAB when it is built, so is this part of that or a separate project.

southwest1675, do you know anything about this?


WN will have all 6 gates on D, and will be acquiring all of the newly expanded counter space coming with the new terminal wings on that side. Supposedly a new operations center and large crew space will be in Concourse D as well. Not sure what all will come of this, since these are rumors/rumblings of employees/supervisors. I will say this. During the Concourse D demo, there are WN supervisors and such talking with construction workers and such.


I know your a WN guy, but what about any rumors on the DL side and the expanded Sky Club. Is DL planning on increasing service?


I’m definitely all WN, but as far as DL goes, I’ve only heard the expanded club will be in the IAB. I’ve also heard European service will probably happen as well
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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:36 am

southwest1675 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:

WN will have all 6 gates on D, and will be acquiring all of the newly expanded counter space coming with the new terminal wings on that side. Supposedly a new operations center and large crew space will be in Concourse D as well. Not sure what all will come of this, since these are rumors/rumblings of employees/supervisors. I will say this. During the Concourse D demo, there are WN supervisors and such talking with construction workers and such.


I know your a WN guy, but what about any rumors on the DL side and the expanded Sky Club. Is DL planning on increasing service?


I’m definitely all WN, but as far as DL goes, I’ve only heard the expanded club will be in the IAB. I’ve also heard European service will probably happen as well


Interesting. Can you try to get more information on any DL plans if possible? Also, keep us updated with WN’s plans.

Thanks!
 
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:58 am

If it is 2020 that doesn’t time right with the Concourse B widening or the IAB opening. The Admirals Club is about 6k sq ft so this really is pretty sizable... could it be taking over someplace like Noshville (since FRAPort is redoing all the leases/retailers anyway I was just trying to think of retail near there)
 
AviationGeek78
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:04 pm

As previously mentioned above, there are times where DL has multiple mainline aircraft on the ground at the same time with all gates occupied. As someone who utilizes his ZED benefits frequently, I have had to sit and wait for a gate on several occasions. I would think the expansion is geared more to the peak departure banks out of BNA. In addition DL has a large loyal business flying base here in Nashville. Have you seen the upgrade lists on the monitors? There is quite a bit of business travel in and out of BNA, thus increasing the amount of folks who would potentially use the skyclub. DL does very well here, even when I worked in ATL and had DL benefits directly, trying to non-rev in and out of BNA on DL was a nightmare. My point is don't underestimate what DL is capable of here. WN isn't the only carrier that has added capacity in recent years, nor is DL.
 
Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:18 pm

AviationGeek78 wrote:
As previously mentioned above, there are times where DL has multiple mainline aircraft on the ground at the same time with all gates occupied. As someone who utilizes his ZED benefits frequently, I have had to sit and wait for a gate on several occasions. I would think the expansion is geared more to the peak departure banks out of BNA. In addition DL has a large loyal business flying base here in Nashville. Have you seen the upgrade lists on the monitors? There is quite a bit of business travel in and out of BNA, thus increasing the amount of folks who would potentially use the skyclub. DL does very well here, even when I worked in ATL and had DL benefits directly, trying to non-rev in and out of BNA on DL was a nightmare. My point is don't underestimate what DL is capable of here. WN isn't the only carrier that has added capacity in recent years, nor is DL.


I don’t doubt that at all, but 11,000+ square feet is still a lot for an outstation. I now have to wonder if DL has some longer term plans for BNA. Some users on here (winginit) have insisted that DL has long term plans for BNA to become an RDU-style focus city, but I just can’t see that working with the massive WN presence here.
 
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:29 pm

Is WN going to inhabit D from it's opening? Once the IAB is started DL is going to lose 2 or 3 gates in B and AA on C the same (I've heard 2 gate and I've heard 3, so not sure). Short of moving the smaller carriers from B onto D temporarity, I'm not sure where those aircraft are going to park.
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gustywinds
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:30 pm

I asked 2 DL customer service agents today about the club. They said they currently have 2,800 sq ft and are adding an additional 10,000 sq ft. I asked them where and they said it will be built out and up. It will seat 300.

They are also hearing about a possible European add for DL from BNA. I assume it would be CDG.
 
Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:12 pm

gustywinds wrote:
I asked 2 DL customer service agents today about the club. They said they currently have 2,800 sq ft and are adding an additional 10,000 sq ft. I asked them where and they said it will be built out and up. It will seat 300.

They are also hearing about a possible European add for DL from BNA. I assume it would be CDG.


I guess if DL has that big of a FF base in Nashville, they probably want to compete with BA. I wonder when it would be added, I’m not sure if BNA is ready for 2 TATL flights and could the existing customs handle it?

Did they say if the Sky Club expansion is part of the terminal wings project and did they anything about any p2p flying?
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:24 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
Is WN going to inhabit D from it's opening? Once the IAB is started DL is going to lose 2 or 3 gates in B and AA on C the same (I've heard 2 gate and I've heard 3, so not sure). Short of moving the smaller carriers from B onto D temporarity, I'm not sure where those aircraft are going to park.


WN will be picking up all of D set for a Summer 2020 opening. AA is losing C2, and C3. DL is losing B1, and B2. I'm not sure how things for DL will work, but AA might be getting C13/C14 back from WN. That is unsure right now. Realistically, I think both AA/DL will be fine losing 2 gates as most of these are just used for irregular operations/terminators. With the new apron filled in, AA/DL will have convenient space to park airplanes to be towed. The MNAA hasn't said too much about the IAB, but I think it's actually gonna be 6 gates that just happen to be international capable. You'll probably see current carriers on the B concourse move in there. Leaving 2-3 open for our international flights. Could Delta be moving in there? Who knows? Give it a year or two and we'll see. On a side note, I wish AA wasn't allergic to P2P flying. They could easily have a DL RDU type focus in Nashville. The MNAA has't been really that specific with BNA Vision plans to be completely honest.
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EvanWSFO
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:24 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
Is WN going to inhabit D from it's opening? Once the IAB is started DL is going to lose 2 or 3 gates in B and AA on C the same (I've heard 2 gate and I've heard 3, so not sure). Short of moving the smaller carriers from B onto D temporarity, I'm not sure where those aircraft are going to park.


WN will be picking up all of D set for a Summer 2020 opening. AA is losing C2, and C3. DL is losing B1, and B2. I'm not sure how things for DL will work, but AA might be getting C13/C14 back from WN. That is unsure right now. Realistically, I think both AA/DL will be fine losing 2 gates as most of these are just used for irregular operations/terminators. With the new apron filled in, AA/DL will have convenient space to park airplanes to be towed. The MNAA hasn't said too much about the IAB, but I think it's actually gonna be 6 gates that just happen to be international capable. You'll probably see current carriers on the B concourse move in there. Leaving 2-3 open for our international flights. Could Delta be moving in there? Who knows? Give it a year or two and we'll see. On a side note, I wish AA wasn't allergic to P2P flying. They could easily have a DL RDU type focus in Nashville. The MNAA has't been really that specific with BNA Vision plans to be completely honest.


Thanks for the FYI. I would agree that BNA Vision's plans are confusing, as it's all being built around daily ops. I'd like one of the those IAB flights be a DL flight to CDG or AMS. Seems like a natural add.
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rexchase12
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:19 pm

Could the extra space be two level? Looking at the BNA vision international's lobby drawings (even though it's the C side), it looks like it has two levels with a balcony.
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gsg013
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:10 am

Cubsrule wrote:
Fargo wrote:
jplatts wrote:

DL has Sky Clubs at some airports other than its current hubs or focus cities, including at ORD, DEN, DFW, FLL, IND, JAX, MEM, MIA, MKE, MSY, EWR, PHL, PHX, PDX, SAN, SFO, TPA, and DCA. There is also a DL Sky Club under construction at AUS that is scheduled to open this summer.


I know that DL has Sky Clubs at non hub/focus city airports, but I am saying Nashville getting a 10,000 square foot club is pretty excessive for a non-hub/focus city, unless DL has bigger plans for Nashville long term.


I think, though, that you're ignoring the broader reality of the BNA Sky Club versus many other outstation clubs. The footprint is essentially the same as it was 15 years ago, when BNA was pretty much just another station in the southeast for DL. Relative to the size of the airline/other stations, BNA was actually larger for NW than for DL pre-merger. It was one of the few NW outstations in the non-Florida southeast not outsourced in the 2005 bankruptcy. So, DL added tremendously to its passenger base with the merger but did not add commensurate club space.

Over the next decade, DL effectively expanded numerous outstation clubs through a combination of relocating into NW's larger spaces (e.g. ORD), relocation into other larger spaces (e.g. MKE), and new terminals (e.g. IND, JAX, RDU). BNA needs to catch up.

While I'm not sure of timing (though it won't be next week or likely even next year), DL is going to have a TATL flight at BNA at some point. That's the obvious next legacy TATL flight. That, too, requires club space.


Agree spoke with a few agents in the skyclub as I went through on Friday the new club will be in the expanded area up to 10,000 Sq feet and seating for up to 300 people... Additionally the space will be 2 floors and have a full service bar area that you will be able to sit at instead of the current walk up bar area. I will be very excited when BNA get a DL non-stop TATL flight.
 
Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:22 am

gsg013 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Fargo wrote:

I know that DL has Sky Clubs at non hub/focus city airports, but I am saying Nashville getting a 10,000 square foot club is pretty excessive for a non-hub/focus city, unless DL has bigger plans for Nashville long term.


I think, though, that you're ignoring the broader reality of the BNA Sky Club versus many other outstation clubs. The footprint is essentially the same as it was 15 years ago, when BNA was pretty much just another station in the southeast for DL. Relative to the size of the airline/other stations, BNA was actually larger for NW than for DL pre-merger. It was one of the few NW outstations in the non-Florida southeast not outsourced in the 2005 bankruptcy. So, DL added tremendously to its passenger base with the merger but did not add commensurate club space.

Over the next decade, DL effectively expanded numerous outstation clubs through a combination of relocating into NW's larger spaces (e.g. ORD), relocation into other larger spaces (e.g. MKE), and new terminals (e.g. IND, JAX, RDU). BNA needs to catch up.

While I'm not sure of timing (though it won't be next week or likely even next year), DL is going to have a TATL flight at BNA at some point. That's the obvious next legacy TATL flight. That, too, requires club space.


Agree spoke with a few agents in the skyclub as I went through on Friday the new club will be in the expanded area up to 10,000 Sq feet and seating for up to 300 people... Additionally the space will be 2 floors and have a full service bar area that you will be able to sit at instead of the current walk up bar area. I will be very excited when BNA get a DL non-stop TATL flight.


Too bad it won't include a SkyDeck like the upcoming AUS location. I wonder when construction will begin on all of this or when they will officially announce the club expansion?
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:37 am

Fargo wrote:
gsg013 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I think, though, that you're ignoring the broader reality of the BNA Sky Club versus many other outstation clubs. The footprint is essentially the same as it was 15 years ago, when BNA was pretty much just another station in the southeast for DL. Relative to the size of the airline/other stations, BNA was actually larger for NW than for DL pre-merger. It was one of the few NW outstations in the non-Florida southeast not outsourced in the 2005 bankruptcy. So, DL added tremendously to its passenger base with the merger but did not add commensurate club space.

Over the next decade, DL effectively expanded numerous outstation clubs through a combination of relocating into NW's larger spaces (e.g. ORD), relocation into other larger spaces (e.g. MKE), and new terminals (e.g. IND, JAX, RDU). BNA needs to catch up.

While I'm not sure of timing (though it won't be next week or likely even next year), DL is going to have a TATL flight at BNA at some point. That's the obvious next legacy TATL flight. That, too, requires club space.


Agree spoke with a few agents in the skyclub as I went through on Friday the new club will be in the expanded area up to 10,000 Sq feet and seating for up to 300 people... Additionally the space will be 2 floors and have a full service bar area that you will be able to sit at instead of the current walk up bar area. I will be very excited when BNA get a DL non-stop TATL flight.


Too bad it won't include a SkyDeck like the upcoming AUS location. I wonder when construction will begin on all of this or when they will officially announce the club expansion?


I took a long look at the structural steel on the north end of the ticketing lobby when I was at the airport today. It seems larger than is necessary for ticketing and baggage expansion, though there is not a great place to have a look at it. Maybe construction has begun already?
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:47 am

I think the new IAB will be two levels. Top floor for domestic arrivals, bottom for arrivals.
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:22 am

*bottom for international arrivals.
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runner13
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:03 pm

Another deadly head on crash on Donelson this morning. I know that whole area is being redone eventually but I don’t know why they can’t put up a concrete barrier in the middle. There appears to be enough room. I’ve been driving Donelson pike since 2001 and it makes me nervous every time still.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:00 pm

runner13 wrote:
Another deadly head on crash on Donelson this morning. I know that whole area is being redone eventually but I don’t know why they can’t put up a concrete barrier in the middle. There appears to be enough room. I’ve been driving Donelson pike since 2001 and it makes me nervous every time still.


It can be pretty bad. I rarely use it, but is there room for a barrier without taking out a lane in each direction?
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runner13
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:03 pm

I would think you could put a concrete barrier on the double yellow line. They’re not that wide.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:04 pm

runner13 wrote:
I would think you could put a concrete barrier on the double yellow line. They’re not that wide.


OK, thanks.
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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:08 am

Just was thinking, if DL were to launch TATL service here, would it be to CDG or AMS?
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:06 am

Fargo wrote:
Just was thinking, if DL were to launch TATL service here, would it be to CDG or AMS?


Most likely CDG.
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dafunk10
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:26 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Just was thinking, if DL were to launch TATL service here, would it be to CDG or AMS?


Most likely CDG.



Agree it would most likely CDG, but AMS would be so much better for onward connections and as a much better airport than CDG.

Interestingly (but not sure it makes a difference), there are several Dutch companies in the Nashville area. Philips has a large presence, and Akro Nobel is moving it’s North American headquarters from Chicago.
 
Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:44 pm

dafunk10 wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Just was thinking, if DL were to launch TATL service here, would it be to CDG or AMS?


Most likely CDG.



Agree it would most likely CDG, but AMS would be so much better for onward connections and as a much better airport than CDG.

Interestingly (but not sure it makes a difference), there are several Dutch companies in the Nashville area. Philips has a large presence, and Akro Nobel is moving it’s North American headquarters from Chicago.


I’d rather have AMS. However, with the amount of South Asians moving to Middle TN, they may want CDG as that has better access to airports like BLR (which is not served from AMS).

Also, AMS is more slot restricted, so it may be harder to get in.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:30 pm

Fargo wrote:
dafunk10 wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:

Most likely CDG.



Agree it would most likely CDG, but AMS would be so much better for onward connections and as a much better airport than CDG.

Interestingly (but not sure it makes a difference), there are several Dutch companies in the Nashville area. Philips has a large presence, and Akro Nobel is moving it’s North American headquarters from Chicago.


I’d rather have AMS. However, with the amount of South Asians moving to Middle TN, they may want CDG as that has better access to airports like BLR (which is not served from AMS).

Also, AMS is more slot restricted, so it may be harder to get in.


80% any new TATL from DL would be to AMS, CDG is only served from hubs/focus cities, IND-CDG only exists because they were able to get a large cargo contract to CDG otherwise it would be IND-AMS
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Fargo
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:19 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Fargo wrote:
dafunk10 wrote:


Agree it would most likely CDG, but AMS would be so much better for onward connections and as a much better airport than CDG.

Interestingly (but not sure it makes a difference), there are several Dutch companies in the Nashville area. Philips has a large presence, and Akro Nobel is moving it’s North American headquarters from Chicago.


I’d rather have AMS. However, with the amount of South Asians moving to Middle TN, they may want CDG as that has better access to airports like BLR (which is not served from AMS).

Also, AMS is more slot restricted, so it may be harder to get in.


80% any new TATL from DL would be to AMS, CDG is only served from hubs/focus cities, IND-CDG only exists because they were able to get a large cargo contract to CDG otherwise it would be IND-AMS


Plus, IND is a primarily business market, so CDG makes more sense. DL does non-hub/focus city AMS flights from more leisure destinations like MCO, TPA, PDX, etc.

Interestingly, Akzo Nobel cited the expansion of BNA as a reason for their move, so who knows?

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/03/21/exclusive-dutch-company-moves-north-americanhq-to.html

I get BNA is a big station for DL, but I am still surprised they are even in the running for DL TATL service considering ATL is only a 50 minute plane ride away.
 
bnatraveler
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:35 pm

General Departure Delays: at [BNA] Due to [ VOL:Volume ] traffic is experiencing Gate Hold and Taxi delays between 30 minutes and 44 minutes in length and increasing.

More general FAA delays this morning. Wondering if this is runway issues or the fact that the center taxiway is still out of commission.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:17 pm

The same could be said about MCO & TPA TATL on DL, or IND's TATL on DL with their hub proximity. ATL is almost in a direct path of MCO-AMS yet they have a nonstop, IND-CDG overflies DTW, so BNA-CDG or AMS isn't impossible. If BNA has the people and the cargo, it's possible.
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runner13
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:24 pm

bnatraveler wrote:
General Departure Delays: at [BNA] Due to [ VOL:Volume ] traffic is experiencing Gate Hold and Taxi delays between 30 minutes and 44 minutes in length and increasing.

More general FAA delays this morning. Wondering if this is runway issues or the fact that the center taxiway is still out of commission.


I’ve figured out why this keeps coming up. Some of our morning departures are incurring 30 min delays to DFW due to miles in trail restrictions. They’re being entered into the system in a way that looks like BNA is seeing big departure delays. In reality things are running just as normal. Not sure why this is only happening at certttimes when 30 min delays to ATL, CLT, and DFW are pretty common.
 
CLJFlyer
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:52 pm

I just left my company's travel trade show and Delta was present. As I was speaking to the Delta reps their jaws dropped....I told them that I heard that the Delta lounge at BNA is being increased by 10,000 sq ft and that it was bigger than Indy's and Raleigh's which is a focus city (they were very surprised I knew that Raleigh was a focus city, but I thought it was public info.) Then I proceeded to tell them that I heard that BNA is getting TATL service...they automatically asked me who I knew inside of Delta. I let them think that I had a contact inside of Delta, but actually all of the information I dropped on them was off of this website, haha.

The reps confirmed with me, the lounge is getting increased by 10,000 sq ft, outward and upward. They also confirmed that Raleigh, Austin, and now Nashville officially are considered DL focus cities. The growth for DL at BNA has been 18% YOY. BNA is getting TATL service, either to CDG or AMS in the near future. They gave me a route map that states that DL flies to more cities than any other (legacy) airline from BNA, and has seasonal service to MCO.

I asked them about matching my AS status, and the rep gave me her business card and asked me to e-mail her and she will grant me complimentary Gold status. I've never had status with Delta so this will definitely get me to move my flying and $$ to Delta from now on.

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