TVNWZ wrote:

strangeplanes wrote:

TVNWZ wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

Keep negotiating.

(no) They can either sign or pay a higher fee.

Lol. No. Everything is negotiable. Just business.

Some of the airlines who didn’t sign were not signed on to the existing agreement or have been non signatory in the recent past.

Others have corporate policies that prevent signing u/l agreements as long as the one that is being put in place.

The political capital it would take to go back through city council with a different u/l agreement isn’t worth it for airlines that make up less than 1% each of airport traffic. Let alone the uproar this would cause among the airlines who did sign that make up 95+% of traffic.

The airport will cut deals with any airlines that want to offer service. If Jet Blue wanted to establish a focus city or hub at MCI, but it was contingent on the same or better rate than everyone else, the airport would fall over itself to sign them up.

Also, the airlines offering very little service would be foolish to sign something now when they may not even be offering service by the time the airport opens. If they are still there, MCI will cuts deal to keep them.

TVNWZ wrote:

The airport will cut deals with any airlines that want to offer service. If Jet Blue wanted to establish a focus city or hub at MCI, but it was contingent on the same or better rate than everyone else, the airport would fall over itself to sign them up.

Also, the airlines offering very little service would be foolish to sign something now when they may not even be offering service by the time the airport opens. If they are still there, MCI will cuts deal to keep them.

Yes, I agree with the JetBlue thing. Someone coming in with big gate interest would be getting deals.

However, that is not what the original conversation is about. It's about airlines who make up <1% of traffic and who aren't signatory on the existing deal getting special deals. Something like that won't happen.

But they won’t get a worse deal either. They’ll say: worse deal? We’re out. MCI won’t let that happen.

It will be interesting to see how the MAX grounding affects Icelandair’s S’19 service to mid-America.

Groundbreaking for the new terminal is coming up on Monday. City Council passed the short term financing today also.

Anyone attend the groundbreaking ceremony today?

KCaviator wrote:

Anyone attend the groundbreaking ceremony today?

I wasn't able to get to the airport today. Here is a link with some video footage: https://fox4kc.com/2019/03/25/ceremonia ... on-at-kci/

As i'm sure some of you have already read, FI is dropping CLE this summer as well as Halifax due to MAX8 issues. I believe this just leaves MCI left from their recent expansion. This doesn't bode well for KC. However i've read from one of the airport directors that bookings are up this year and that FI was bringing back the 757 anyways so hopefully MCI will narrowly avoid the ax.

However, since the MAX glitches are likely temporary i'm hopeful FI will resume those cities in the near future.

trexel94 wrote:

As i'm sure some of you have already read, FI is dropping CLE this summer as well as Halifax due to MAX8 issues. I believe this just leaves MCI left from their recent expansion. This doesn't bode well for KC. However i've read from one of the airport directors that bookings are up this year and that FI was bringing back the 757 anyways so hopefully MCI will narrowly avoid the ax.

However, since the MAX glitches are likely temporary i'm hopeful FI will resume those cities in the near future.

They added a frequency to MCI this year, so worst case I figured they go back to 3x a week.

Jshank83 wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

As i'm sure some of you have already read, FI is dropping CLE this summer as well as Halifax due to MAX8 issues. I believe this just leaves MCI left from their recent expansion. This doesn't bode well for KC. However i've read from one of the airport directors that bookings are up this year and that FI was bringing back the 757 anyways so hopefully MCI will narrowly avoid the ax.

However, since the MAX glitches are likely temporary i'm hopeful FI will resume those cities in the near future.

They added a frequency to MCI this year, so worst case I figured they go back to 3x a week.

It looks like the May 27th flight is already more than 72% booked. That seems like a pretty high number this far out. June looks to be in the 50-60% range.

Booking portal reflected to show upguaging to 757-200

FI's first flight of the season begins today with four weekly flights instead of the initial three and when I last checked a few weeks ago today's flight was nearly sold out. Stronger bookings are anticipated this year.

In other news, i've heard that airport reps have been making repeat trips to Germany over the past few months and that the German Federal Foreign Office is currently sponsoring a 1 year cultural exchange in the Crossroads District. Could FRA be in the works in a year or two? IMHO, Condor would probably be more realistic than LH.

DL recently added another frequency to BOS in the fall. Also saw on the STL thread that AS dropped their planned 737 addition to SAN route

trexel94 wrote:

FI's first flight of the season begins today with four weekly flights instead of the initial three and when I last checked a few weeks ago today's flight was nearly sold out. Stronger bookings are anticipated this year.

In other news, i've heard that airport reps have been making repeat trips to Germany over the past few months and that the German Federal Foreign Office is currently sponsoring a 1 year cultural exchange in the Crossroads District. Could FRA be in the works in a year or two? IMHO, Condor would probably be more realistic than LH.

Definitely don’t see LH coming here. Condor would still be surprising but more realistic than LH.

FI's enplanements for May 2019 was 815 compared to May 2018 of 442. An 84% increase.

trexel94 wrote:

FI's enplanements for May 2019 was 815 compared to May 2018 of 442. An 84% increase.

How many more flights?

Jshank83 wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

FI's enplanements for May 2019 was 815 compared to May 2018 of 442. An 84% increase.

How many more flights?

2019 service started on the 24th of May so I believe it totaled 5 flights for that month. I'm particularly paying close attention to this year of service since once the 2019 season concludes the subsidy runs out and FI will have to rely solely on profits going forward.

trexel94 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

FI's enplanements for May 2019 was 815 compared to May 2018 of 442. An 84% increase.

How many more flights?

2019 service started on the 24th of May so I believe it totaled 5 flights for that month. I'm particularly paying close attention to this year of service since once the 2019 season concludes the subsidy runs out and FI will have to rely solely on profits going forward.

Will be interesting to see if it holds on post this flying season. Especially with the Max uncertainty and loss of subsidy

trexel94 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

FI's enplanements for May 2019 was 815 compared to May 2018 of 442. An 84% increase.

How many more flights?

2019 service started on the 24th of May so I believe it totaled 5 flights for that month. I'm particularly paying close attention to this year of service since once the 2019 season concludes the subsidy runs out and FI will have to rely solely on profits going forward.

I meant how many more this year in May than last year in May? Guessing maybe just one or two. Will be interesting to see the LFs when they get released.

Jshank83 wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

How many more flights?

2019 service started on the 24th of May so I believe it totaled 5 flights for that month. I'm particularly paying close attention to this year of service since once the 2019 season concludes the subsidy runs out and FI will have to rely solely on profits going forward.

I meant how many more this year in May than last year in May? Guessing maybe just one or two. Will be interesting to see the LFs when they get released.

From what I see it went ’t from 3x to 4x

TWA302 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

2019 service started on the 24th of May so I believe it totaled 5 flights for that month. I'm particularly paying close attention to this year of service since once the 2019 season concludes the subsidy runs out and FI will have to rely solely on profits going forward.

I meant how many more this year in May than last year in May? Guessing maybe just one or two. Will be interesting to see the LFs when they get released.

From what I see it went ’t from 3x to 4x

Correct. Weekly did but I didn’t know how the start dates changed from last year to this year so I was wanting to know how many last year flew to this year (YoY) in May. Did they start the same date? Did one year start a week earlier (hence more flights). That way I can compare passengers. If they flew 5 this may and 2 last May then having an 80% jump isn’t that great. If they flew 4 or 5 last May and 5 this may then it is.

It looks like they flew 3 flights in May 2018 and 5 flights this May.

Delta starts running the A220 between MCI and SEA in March 2020.

Source: https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status ... 45761?s=21

How is FI doing this summer? Their fares are impressive, and for anyone utilizing the KEF stopover program is definitely coming out on top. FI's restructuring process is interesting, but I'm glad they have held on to this Midwest city.

Rumor has it from a local travel agent that FI will not return to KC in 2020. Disappointed as I was under the impression the route was doing ok or at least would maintain a simple seasonal schedule. But to be honest the service really didn't solve a problem. Most KC passengers are not going to KEF so a connection is still required and business travelers have accounts with legacy carriers. So that just leaves price sensitive occasional tourists. IMO not the most reliable or profitable market.

TATL PDEW from MCI is over 370 so demand is obviously there. Perhaps FI just wasn't the best fit. Any chance MCI could interest BA, Condor, DL or even Aer Lingus (not sure if the A321NEO has the range)? If IND and CVG have service then why not KC? FI may have failed but i'm willing to bet MCI-LHR, FRA or AMS would do much better.

trexel94 wrote:

TATL PDEW from MCI is over 370 so demand is obviously there. Perhaps FI just wasn't the best fit. Any chance MCI could interest BA, Condor, DL or even Aer Lingus (not sure if the A321NEO has the range)? If IND and CVG have service then why not KC? FI may have failed but i'm willing to bet MCI-LHR, FRA or AMS would do much better.

BA adding MCI-LHR nonstop service is a possibility as BA already serves LHR nonstop from some non-AA hub destinations in the US such as AUS, BWI, BOS, DEN, IAH, LAS, BNA, MSY, EWR, PIT, SAN, SFO, SJC, SEA, and IAD.

LH also already serves FRA nonstop from some non-UA hub airports in the US such as ATL, AUS, BOS, DFW, DTW, MIA, MCO, PHL, SAN, SEA, and TPA.

DE already serves ANC, BWI, FAI, LAS, MSP, MSY, PHX, PIT, PDX, and SEA nonstop from FRA on at least a seasonal basis.

KL already serves a few non-DL hub airports in the US nonstop from AMS such as ORD, IAH, LAS, SFO, and IAD. DL also already serve MCO and PDX nonstop from AMS, even though MCO and PDX aren't hubs for DL.

BA adding MCI-LHR nonstop service is more likely to happen than LH or DE adding MCI-FRA or KL adding MCI-AMS nonstop service since BA already has nonstop service to more US cities from LHR than KL does from AMS, DL does from AMS, LH does from FRA, or DE does from FRA. In addition to BA serving more U.S. cities nonstop from LHR, LHR is not as far east as AMS or FRA, and BA also already offers 1-stop connecting service to many European, African, and Middle Eastern destinations from the U.S. cities that it serves nonstop from LHR.

A321neo and LR don't have the range from DUB. XLR might once they get those.

WN announced today that it is going to be permanently discontinuing BOS-MCI nonstop service after January 5, 2020.

jplatts wrote:

WN announced today that it is going to be permanently discontinuing BOS-MCI nonstop service after January 5, 2020.

DL (YX) 3x daily has the MCI-BOS demand covered. Business travelers would much prefer the E175 (especially with First Class) compared to the 737 anyway.

Wouldn’t be surprised if WN dropped LGA next.

Updates

- Icelandair traffic for July up 17.3%. Flights for 2020 are bookable (still 4x weekly) with the first starting May 15th. I believe MCI is the only US airport where FI is the sole TATL operator.

- AS will discontinue service to SAN & SFO in 2020. Maybe UA will upgrade the route permanently to mainline?

- Concourse A has been completely demolished and new renderings for the new terminal have been released (link here https://www.buildkci.com/images/updated-renderings/ )

There's been talk among the avgeek community in Kansas City (originating from a B6 executive) that B6 is interested in adding service once the new airport opens. Don't hold me to anything but I wonder with WN leaving MCI-BOS it would encourage them to make the plunge sooner?

New terminal looks great. Look forward to flying through it in a few years time. Typically fly through MCI about every two years as our national training center is located there.

NolaMD88fan wrote:

New terminal looks great. Look forward to flying through it in a few years time. Typically fly through MCI about every two years as our national training center is located there.

Agree. The updated renderings are beautiful. Can’t wait for it to be finished.

If my research is correct, the final AA MD-80 flight out of MCI departs this evening, AA2055. N9677W.

-Rowen

Very interesting data posted by Justin Meyer, not sure if this is one-way or both ways combined:

blhp68 wrote:

Delta starts running the A220 between MCI and SEA in March 2020.

Source: https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status ... 45761?s=21

Now starting putting them on LGA-MCI and I'm golden. Last major hub route without mainline.

Midwestindy wrote:

Very interesting data posted by Justin Meyer, not sure if this is one-way or both ways combined:

It is one way data.

res77W wrote:

If my research is correct, the final AA MD-80 flight out of MCI departs this evening, AA2055. N9677W.

-Rowen

End of an era

I'll miss them, but I'm not complaining

[twoid][/twoid]

strangeplanes wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Very interesting data posted by Justin Meyer, not sure if this is one-way or both ways combined:

It is one way data.

Seems high for one way. But maybe it isn’t. A little surprised KEF isn’t higher though. So maybe one way makes sense.

Jshank83 wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

strangeplanes wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Very interesting data posted by Justin Meyer, not sure if this is one-way or both ways combined:

It is one way data.

Seems high for one way. But maybe it isn’t. A little surprised KEF isn’t higher though. So maybe one way makes sense.

Seems like that Kansas City could definitely support direct flights to Europe. BA to LHR isn't probably impossible. St.Louis is competing also for those links though.

Jshank83 wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

strangeplanes wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Very interesting data posted by Justin Meyer, not sure if this is one-way or both ways combined:

It is one way data.

Seems high for one way. But maybe it isn’t. A little surprised KEF isn’t higher though. So maybe one way makes sense.

I wonder how the FI data was calculated since they are not daily. Was the O/D just divided by 7 and if that's the case the FO loads would be almost double what this data shows. Also it would be interesting to see what the break down of other is and the international carrier that get's the most connection traffic then we would have a better target for the airport to aim at. I'd say most of those other passengers are transferring to LH connecting flights but that's me two cents worth.

klm617 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

strangeplanes wrote:

It is one way data.

Seems high for one way. But maybe it isn’t. A little surprised KEF isn’t higher though. So maybe one way makes sense.

I wonder how the FI data was calculated since they are not daily. Was the O/D just divided by 7 and if that's the case the FO loads would be almost double what this data shows. Also it would be interesting to see what the break down of other is and the international carrier that get's the most connection traffic then we would have a better target for the airport to aim at. I'd say most of those other passengers are transferring to LH connecting flights but that's me two cents worth.

Correct. They would just count up all the passengers from the month and divide by days in the month. Which is why KEF surprises me. I figured it would be 80% O&D not 50%ish.

Jshank83 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

Seems high for one way. But maybe it isn’t. A little surprised KEF isn’t higher though. So maybe one way makes sense.

I wonder how the FI data was calculated since they are not daily. Was the O/D just divided by 7 and if that's the case the FO loads would be almost double what this data shows. Also it would be interesting to see what the break down of other is and the international carrier that get's the most connection traffic then we would have a better target for the airport to aim at. I'd say most of those other passengers are transferring to LH connecting flights but that's me two cents worth.

Correct. They would just count up all the passengers from the month and divide by days in the month. Which is why KEF surprises me. I figured it would be 80% O&D not 50%ish.

But is FI only operates 16 flights a month and the formula that was used divides by 30 or 31 that means the FI numbers are way higher than this data leads us to believe.

Jshank83 wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

strangeplanes wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Very interesting data posted by Justin Meyer, not sure if this is one-way or both ways combined:

It is one way data.

Seems high for one way. But maybe it isn’t. A little surprised KEF isn’t higher though. So maybe one way makes sense.

On second reading these numbers look very reasonable, considering it is June only, which is the largest month for TATL.

Midwestindy wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

strangeplanes wrote:

It is one way data.

Seems high for one way. But maybe it isn’t. A little surprised KEF isn’t higher though. So maybe one way makes sense.

On second reading these numbers look very reasonable, considering it is June only, which is the largest month for TATL.

Yea, I was thinking about averages not a peak month.

klm617 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

I wonder how the FI data was calculated since they are not daily. Was the O/D just divided by 7 and if that's the case the FO loads would be almost double what this data shows. Also it would be interesting to see what the break down of other is and the international carrier that get's the most connection traffic then we would have a better target for the airport to aim at. I'd say most of those other passengers are transferring to LH connecting flights but that's me two cents worth.

Correct. They would just count up all the passengers from the month and divide by days in the month. Which is why KEF surprises me. I figured it would be 80% O&D not 50%ish.

But is FI only operates 16 flights a month and the formula that was used divides by 30 or 31 that means the FI numbers are way higher than this data leads us to believe.

I don't think that is the point of this data. LHR has zero flights so what is that number telling you. You have load factors for flight loads and this O&D to see how many people fly on average a day somewhere. I also doubt all passengers to KEF fly FI. Most probably do but the KEF number isn't just Fl passengers.

Any idea if WN MCI-ECP is coming back next year?

KCaviator wrote:

Any idea if WN MCI-ECP is coming back next year?

Not for spring break. Maybe summer. STL is getting it back starting March 7 but not MCI.

pmanni1 wrote:

KCaviator wrote:

Any idea if WN MCI-ECP is coming back next year?

Not for spring break. Maybe summer. STL is getting it back starting March 7 but not MCI.

STL has had it for a couple years. Runs March-October.

I assume if the numbers were good on it this summer for MCI it will be back next summer. Maybe they will add a 2nd flight. Sat/Sun

Jshank83 wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

KCaviator wrote:

Any idea if WN MCI-ECP is coming back next year?

Not for spring break. Maybe summer. STL is getting it back starting March 7 but not MCI.

STL has had it for a couple years. Runs March-October.

I assume if the numbers were good on it this summer for MCI it will be back next summer. Maybe they will add a 2nd flight. Sat/Sun

When did it seasonally start this year? June-ish?

KCaviator wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

Not for spring break. Maybe summer. STL is getting it back starting March 7 but not MCI.

STL has had it for a couple years. Runs March-October.

I assume if the numbers were good on it this summer for MCI it will be back next summer. Maybe they will add a 2nd flight. Sat/Sun

When did it seasonally start this year? June-ish?

Yes June