Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:41 pm

YYZORD wrote:
We should know about new routes out of HND and NRT soon for the 2020 slot increase by the japanese government. There's a chance we will see either NH or JL starting a YYZ route but when would such an announcement happen? If BR and CX can fit a 777-300 to YYZ, so can NH or JL.


I'd say it's a pretty good chance, ANA from HND would be a nice way to supplement AC. If they can work together on the route with codeshares or even a JV, it could be really nice. Even if AC were to move to a 789, they could run that in parallel with an ANA 789.

Places like HKG are 3x daily, there is no reason HND can't handle at least 2, especially with connection opportunities. Anna Aero did a piece on Asian hubs and their top unserved routes, YYZ was the 4th largest to SIN for example, with over 40 000 passengers last year from YYZ to SIN indirectly, which is over 50 pdew. That's just one destination alone. ANA would be an excellent partner to work that demand.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4448
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:58 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
We should know about new routes out of HND and NRT soon for the 2020 slot increase by the japanese government. There's a chance we will see either NH or JL starting a YYZ route but when would such an announcement happen? If BR and CX can fit a 777-300 to YYZ, so can NH or JL.


I'd say it's a pretty good chance, ANA from HND would be a nice way to supplement AC. If they can work together on the route with codeshares or even a JV, it could be really nice. Even if AC were to move to a 789, they could run that in parallel with an ANA 789.

Places like HKG are 3x daily, there is no reason HND can't handle at least 2, especially with connection opportunities. Anna Aero did a piece on Asian hubs and their top unserved routes, YYZ was the 4th largest to SIN for example, with over 40 000 passengers last year from YYZ to SIN indirectly, which is over 50 pdew. That's just one destination alone. ANA would be an excellent partner to work that demand.


There’s a reason why 2 flights to Tokyo don’t work and I’m sure you recall AC transferring NRT from YYZ to YUL. Why would AC move an asset out of its main global hub?
Yes - between July and Sep perhaps a 2nd flight could work but what about all the other months. Do you know what AC and or CX profitability is to YYZ?
You’re doing this on account of full flights and not necessarily profitability.

It’s nice to see your enthusiasm but the Japanese carriers caters to a very premium market which CANADA is simply not. I can tell you personally that Japanese carriers don’t hold Canada as a top priority.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:44 pm

The move was because they want to grow their YUL hub too, and AC has connections to not only domestic eastern Canada but also US. Also AC was wanting a JV with UA, maybe they can be added to the one UA already has with NH so then AC flights would be an asset to NH just like UA is today at ORD and SFO. Tokyo is a global city and I feel there is enough demand for a NH year round service to either HND or NRT. YVR doesn't serve eastern Canada like YYZ does and with many US destinations at YYZ and Pre-Clearance, the pax will support this flight.

flyyul wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
We should know about new routes out of HND and NRT soon for the 2020 slot increase by the japanese government. There's a chance we will see either NH or JL starting a YYZ route but when would such an announcement happen? If BR and CX can fit a 777-300 to YYZ, so can NH or JL.


I'd say it's a pretty good chance, ANA from HND would be a nice way to supplement AC. If they can work together on the route with codeshares or even a JV, it could be really nice. Even if AC were to move to a 789, they could run that in parallel with an ANA 789.

Places like HKG are 3x daily, there is no reason HND can't handle at least 2, especially with connection opportunities. Anna Aero did a piece on Asian hubs and their top unserved routes, YYZ was the 4th largest to SIN for example, with over 40 000 passengers last year from YYZ to SIN indirectly, which is over 50 pdew. That's just one destination alone. ANA would be an excellent partner to work that demand.


There’s a reason why 2 flights to Tokyo don’t work and I’m sure you recall AC transferring NRT from YYZ to YUL. Why would AC move an asset out of its main global hub?
Yes - between July and Sep perhaps a 2nd flight could work but what about all the other months. Do you know what AC and or CX profitability is to YYZ?
You’re doing this on account of full flights and not necessarily profitability.

It’s nice to see your enthusiasm but the Japanese carriers caters to a very premium market which CANADA is simply not. I can tell you personally that Japanese carriers don’t hold Canada as a top priority.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:37 pm

flyyul wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
We should know about new routes out of HND and NRT soon for the 2020 slot increase by the japanese government. There's a chance we will see either NH or JL starting a YYZ route but when would such an announcement happen? If BR and CX can fit a 777-300 to YYZ, so can NH or JL.


I'd say it's a pretty good chance, ANA from HND would be a nice way to supplement AC. If they can work together on the route with codeshares or even a JV, it could be really nice. Even if AC were to move to a 789, they could run that in parallel with an ANA 789.

Places like HKG are 3x daily, there is no reason HND can't handle at least 2, especially with connection opportunities. Anna Aero did a piece on Asian hubs and their top unserved routes, YYZ was the 4th largest to SIN for example, with over 40 000 passengers last year from YYZ to SIN indirectly, which is over 50 pdew. That's just one destination alone. ANA would be an excellent partner to work that demand.


There’s a reason why 2 flights to Tokyo don’t work and I’m sure you recall AC transferring NRT from YYZ to YUL. Why would AC move an asset out of its main global hub?
Yes - between July and Sep perhaps a 2nd flight could work but what about all the other months. Do you know what AC and or CX profitability is to YYZ?
You’re doing this on account of full flights and not necessarily profitability.

It’s nice to see your enthusiasm but the Japanese carriers caters to a very premium market which CANADA is simply not. I can tell you personally that Japanese carriers don’t hold Canada as a top priority.


They moved the YYZ-NRT to YUL, spreads the wealth, plus captured different connections. HND has grown from a 787 to a 77L now to a year round 77W, I’d say it’s fair to say it’s doing well. Look at HKG, it wouldn’t run a peak of 3x daily, all 777s if it wasn’t doing well. Even the lowest season is still 17x weekly 77Ws. If they weren’t making money, they wouldn’t fly the route, let alone at the frequency they do. I think it’s fair to say there is an exceptionally good chance YYZ gets a Japanese carrier. There is plenty of premium demand, maybe not for an F cabin, but YYZ has extremely high J volumes, and intercontinental J is AC’s fastest growing segment, extrapolate that to most of their intercontinental flying being out of YYZ, it’s pretty fair to say it’s a market that can be tapped into and will provide returns on investment. AC is also just about out of resources to expand its international flying portfolio, more and more, I think you will see star partners increasing service to AC hubs to keep up with growth.

YYZ is after all, the second busiest international airport in the Americas and intercontinental traffic is growing rapidly, 2018 saw 7.6% growth, making it the fastest growing international airport in the Americas based on actual pax growth. Furthermore, YVR and YUL are both growing quickly and feature in the top 15 of the same list. The data doesn’t lie, traffic to Canada is doing more than sufficiently well.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:41 am

Update on YYZ-LHR, 2018 numbers were 1.091 million, an increase of 4.1% which is a positive sign on a route that has really been struggling during the growth period, with BA hemorrhaging market share and capacity. Hopefully we soon see them return to a viable competitive spot against AC.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:27 pm

Periodic update:

BA to sub an Air Belgium A343 between June 9th and August 17th on the early LHR-YYZ, continuing their string of weakness. Ironic given my previous post.

http://m.atwonline.com/airline-financia ... t-aircraft
Swiss to look at launching YYZ, I would anticipate S20 would make sense, either an A333 if AC maintains service, or a 77W if AC stops the route, I’d say the former is more likely given AC’s history on YYZ-ZRH.

Sunwing is wet leasing 2 Eastern 767s (1 -200 and 1 -300) for the duration of the max grounding, they are currently at YYZ. They will also be leasing the Omni 777 this weekend for extra lift.

AC is reportedly talking to BA about leasing a 777(s) to cover the max groundings. I have no further info on that at this time unfortunately.

WS has added extra flying on the 789 between YYZ and YYC to recover displaced pax.

Long story short, this max grounding is absolutely disastrous. 2019 numbers will likely take quite a dip as a result, it’ll be Intersting to see how it plays out.
 
calltheball
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:54 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:59 pm

whywhyzee wrote:

Sunwing is wet leasing 2 Eastern 767s (1 -200 and 1 -300) for the duration of the max grounding, they are currently at YYZ. They will also be leasing the Omni 777 this weekend for extra lift.



Where did you get the Omni 777 lease information from? I thought it was a Boeing 767-200 they planned to lease.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:22 pm

calltheball wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

Sunwing is wet leasing 2 Eastern 767s (1 -200 and 1 -300) for the duration of the max grounding, they are currently at YYZ. They will also be leasing the Omni 777 this weekend for extra lift.



Where did you get the Omni 777 lease information from? I thought it was a Boeing 767-200 they planned to lease.


Internal. In total, they will have 1x b762, 1x b763 and temporarily one b772.
 
calltheball
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:54 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:58 pm

Understood, cheers!
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:38 pm

If NZ can do a AKL-ORD route, is it possible that they will do a AKL-YYZ route too? Like is the distance between the two cities possible to do a flight with a 787? AC is a star alliance member along with NZ so this should help create a direct route as YYZ has no routes to Oceania and this would help YYZ cover more parts of the world towards the goal to turn YYZ into a megahub. Also NZ can offer easy connections to Australian cities like SYD, BNE, and MEL.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2984
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:13 pm

Highly unlikely. NZ already flies to ORD and IAH, two star alliance hubs, so the US east coast/Eastern Canada is already well covered via convenient 1 stop flights. YYZ doesn't bring much more to the table. Besides, they would fly AKL-JFK (which is only 340 km further) before YYZ.

B789 range = 14,140 km

AKL-YYZ = 13,867 km
AKL-ORD = 13,170 km
AKL-IAH = 11,933 km
AKL-JFK = 14,207 km

*PER-LHR = 14,499 km

AKL-YYZ is right at the limit of what the B789 can do. The westbound leg would be severely weight restricted.

QF does PER-LHR, which is longer than AKL-YYZ, but QF only has 236 seats on their B789, and charges a premium for the non stop.
NZs' least dense config has 39 more seats, and AKL-YYZ isn't a premium heavy route.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:31 pm

Agreed on AKL-YYZ, it's just too far right now with current aircraft capabilities to be sustainable. Even AKL-JFK would be incredibly difficult to pull off. Since there is a lack of non-stop options anyhow, there is no harm in focusing on connections over YVR.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:44 pm

BA to debut the A350-1000 on long haul on LHR-YYZ as BA092/093.

This is a pretty good bump in capacity, and YYZ, and introducing their best Longhaul J product on the route is pretty nice.
 
smallmj
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:39 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:44 pm

Tom Podolec just tweeted a picture of the new Jet Bridges in the transborder area.

https://twitter.com/TomPodolec/status/1 ... 2604648454
 
YKF
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:58 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:17 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
BA to debut the A350-1000 on long haul on LHR-YYZ as BA092/093.

This is a pretty good bump in capacity, and YYZ, and introducing their best Longhaul J product on the route is pretty nice.


BA092/093 will be quite the interesting flight this year, with the route going from Air Belgium's a340-300 to BA's a350-1000.
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15775
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:00 am

AA mainline will return to YYZ-ORD this summer with a 1x daily A319.

This will raise AA mainline at YYZ to 7x daily (2x 738, 5 xA319) -- 2x daily DFW 738, 3x daily MIA A319, 1x daily CLT A319 plus the ORD A319 route.

A fraction of the former AA presence at YYZ, but progress nonetheless.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
hz747300
Posts: 2417
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:41 am

yyz717 wrote:
AA mainline will return to YYZ-ORD this summer with a 1x daily A319.

This will raise AA mainline at YYZ to 7x daily (2x 738, 5 xA319) -- 2x daily DFW 738, 3x daily MIA A319, 1x daily CLT A319 plus the ORD A319 route.

A fraction of the former AA presence at YYZ, but progress nonetheless.


A long time ago I flew an AA MD-80 LGA-YYZ r/t for work. Those days seem like they'll never come back.
Keep on truckin'...
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:27 pm

That 1X A319 from ORD-YYZ is being turned into a 737-300 during the summer so even better for AA service at YYZ. I hope they finally add YYZ-PHX, that has more potential than YYZ-LAX as connections to LAS, SAN, PSP, SJC, SMF, SLC, TUS, RNO, etc. PHX alone has a lot of demand for winter snowbirds!

yyz717 wrote:
AA mainline will return to YYZ-ORD this summer with a 1x daily A319.

This will raise AA mainline at YYZ to 7x daily (2x 738, 5 xA319) -- 2x daily DFW 738, 3x daily MIA A319, 1x daily CLT A319 plus the ORD A319 route.

A fraction of the former AA presence at YYZ, but progress nonetheless.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:25 pm

Seems like BG might add DAC-YYZ this year or 2020 once all their 787-8 fleets get delivered, this would be a nice addition to YYZ as the only other airport BG is considering to serve in North America is JFK and I think its easier to connect to domestic US through YYZ compared to JFK so that'll be additional pax on the YYZ route for US bound passengers along with YYZ and other Canadian bound passengers.

https://www.anna.aero/2018/08/08/biman- ... -capacity/
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:02 am

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 23040?s=20

Ethiopian upguaging to A359 service as of June.
 
User avatar
BirdBrain
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:54 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:37 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/1111697995710423040?s=20

Ethiopian upguaging to A359 service as of June.


Nice. Is this the first regular A350 service? Looking forward to seeing it in person.
 
billsalton92
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:12 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:25 pm

BirdBrain wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/1111697995710423040?s=20

Ethiopian upguaging to A359 service as of June.


Nice. Is this the first regular A350 service? Looking forward to seeing it in person.

Philippines from Manilla has been operating 350 daily since mid March, with the exception of today's 77W. Official equipment switch to 359 for them is tomorrow along with the seasonal LH from MUC switching to 359 from 333
 
User avatar
BirdBrain
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:54 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:15 pm

billsalton92 wrote:
Philippines from Manilla has been operating 350 daily since mid March, with the exception of today's 77W. Official equipment switch to 359 for them is tomorrow along with the seasonal LH from MUC switching to 359 from 333


Thanks for the info. I need to get out there more often.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:22 pm

BirdBrain wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/1111697995710423040?s=20

Ethiopian upguaging to A359 service as of June.


Nice. Is this the first regular A350 service? Looking forward to seeing it in person.


PAL is already operating the A359 between MNL and YYZ, as of this weekend, it is daily.

LH starts A359 service from MUC tomorrow.

BA starts A350-1000 service in October.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:19 pm

Next will probably be a CX A350 to YYZ hopefully, any other airline at YYZ that could upgrade their fleet to an A350?
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:34 pm

YYZORD wrote:
Next will probably be a CX A350 to YYZ hopefully, any other airline at YYZ that could upgrade their fleet to an A350?


Talk is CX bringing the A350-1000 on the afternoon flight starting in the winter season. This is from one of their YYZ based 777 captains.

Else, I could see Hainan bringing the A350 once they start it on long haul (if they so choose that is).
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:37 pm

I almost forgot about EY, they have 20 of those A350-1000 on order, maybe one of em could be for YYZ to increase capacity as they are only allowed 5 weekly slots to Canada. SQ also has interest to fly to both YVR and YYZ and there is a chance an A350-1000 could be on one of those routes. Another could be OZ if they consider Canadian destinations as they fly to ORD and SEA already, both being American city versions of YVR and YYZ.

whywhyzee wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Next will probably be a CX A350 to YYZ hopefully, any other airline at YYZ that could upgrade their fleet to an A350?


Talk is CX bringing the A350-1000 on the afternoon flight starting in the winter season. This is from one of their YYZ based 777 captains.

Else, I could see Hainan bringing the A350 once they start it on long haul (if they so choose that is).
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:08 am

Another thing to mention about NH and JL adding YYZ, I can predict that NH will for sure add YYZ next year because the CEO said that he wants to expand their network in North America to connect it with Asia and where else can they pretty much add in the continent except for YYZ, DEN, and EWR being star alliance hubs without NH. Out of the three, YYZ is at the best position for this as NH already serves JFK so EWR wouldn't be their first priority, second DEN probably doesn't have enough pax for a second Japan flight which leaves YYZ which is overdue for another Japanese flight as YYZ-HND 1X daily by AC is the only connection to japan directly. There's not even a NRT flight out of YYZ which NH can perfectly compliment with AC's YYZ-HND route. On the Asia end, NH has many connections to second tier cities in China out of NRT, I checked the list of China destinations that NH offers out of NRT and it's a pretty great list. With many chinese people living in Toronto, I feel the flight will support the demand along with 40,000 Japanese Canadians living in Ontario alone. On the North America end at YYZ, AC offers many flights to the United States, Caribbean (especially Cuba), and Eastern Canada which can be great for amount of pax from Asia on this route and let's not forget YYZ is Canada's biggest airport and almost going to be the biggest airport in the continent with international pax beating JFK. A 1X daily YYZ-NRT by NH is perfect and there is enough demand there as I explained the reasonings. JL can probably add YYZ-HND as they are not partners with AC but can compliment WS traffic out of Eastern Canada as YVR doesn't cover that part of Canada. HND would be nice for JL as they will get the next HND Canada slot and for sure they will use that for YYZ as they already serve YVR through NRT while NH serves YVR through HND. This will have additional pax for those who want to visit second tier cities in Japan along with those who want to conveniently be in Tokyo. Long post yes but it's all explaining the reasonings why I believe that YYZ-TYO is very underserved compared to other Asian destinations and can support at least 3X daily flights to TYO. One current existing AC YYZ-HND, One new NH YYZ-NRT route to connect asian travellers to other asian destinations and asian travellers to north america destinations, and one JL YYZ-HND route to connect WS Eastern Canada & US pax to Japanese second tier cities through JL's network.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:32 am

NH Asian Destinations served out of NRT with no direct flights from YYZ:

China: CTU, DLC, HGH, TAO, SHE, WUH, XMN
India: MAA (Starting October 27)
Indonesia: CGK
Malaysia: KUL
Myanmar: RGN
Singapore: SIN
Thailand: BKK
Vietnam: SGN
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:10 pm

[quote="YYZORD"][/quote]
2020 is looking like it'll be a really strong year for international growth out of YYZ, especially coming on the heels of a strong 2019 for the incumbents.

I have seen pretty substantial talk that SAS, Swiss, ANA/JAL are considering YYZ, not to mention Air Serbia who have officially stated they are in the process of finalizing a YYZ service plan. There is also WS who will likely be flying a couple international routes out of YYZ on the 789 by this time next year. All in all, it's fair to say we might end up seeing ~3x daily new widebody services from not AC next summer, which is pretty substantial, would likely bring in an additional 1000 international passengers/day, in a segment that is already growing incredibly fast from Toronto. O/D is still very high, was at 71% for all services as of q3 2018, I haven't seen the data from Q4 yet, but 2017 -> 2018 YoY was actually an increase in O/D percentage, which indicates to me that there is certainly potential for growth to continue.

I would suggest that ANA is the most likely of the internationals to begin service, would be a welcome sight at T1 for sure. With the new gates opening, there is room for roughly 25 additional flights per day, which frees up swing gates for more international flying.
 
Vladex
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:12 pm

I can see probably JAL when they get A350
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:19 pm

Vladex wrote:
I can see probably JAL when they get A350


JAL would be a 787 to start if it were to happen. JAL is the first customer of the A350-942, which is a significantly lower weight model, they will be used domestically on short haul routes, and don't have nearly enough range for North America.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:34 pm

I'm flying ANA in 4 weeks out of ORD to HND, I would much rather transit through the US to fly ANA than fly direct on AC haha, I also got the tickets pretty cheap too! It'll be a nice memory flying out of ORD on ANA as next year when they come to YYZ, I have no reason to fly out of ORD unless I fly QR to DOH. OZ to ICN from ORD is an option too but YYZ already gets KE so it only makes sense for me to fly that ORD-ICN route if I want to strictly be on a star alliance carrier and earn points on AC's mileage system. Other than that, every other major airline that serves ORD and not YYZ is coming to YYZ next year as you mentioned. My gf lives in Chicago which is why ORD I use to fly out of often when I visit her for sometime either US domestic or international. I use YYZ when I think of convenience and wanting to fly CX, BR, EK, EY, TK, KE, etc.

whywhyzee wrote:
YYZORD wrote:

2020 is looking like it'll be a really strong year for international growth out of YYZ, especially coming on the heels of a strong 2019 for the incumbents.

I have seen pretty substantial talk that SAS, Swiss, ANA/JAL are considering YYZ, not to mention Air Serbia who have officially stated they are in the process of finalizing a YYZ service plan. There is also WS who will likely be flying a couple international routes out of YYZ on the 789 by this time next year. All in all, it's fair to say we might end up seeing ~3x daily new widebody services from not AC next summer, which is pretty substantial, would likely bring in an additional 1000 international passengers/day, in a segment that is already growing incredibly fast from Toronto. O/D is still very high, was at 71% for all services as of q3 2018, I haven't seen the data from Q4 yet, but 2017 -> 2018 YoY was actually an increase in O/D percentage, which indicates to me that there is certainly potential for growth to continue.

I would suggest that ANA is the most likely of the internationals to begin service, would be a welcome sight at T1 for sure. With the new gates opening, there is room for roughly 25 additional flights per day, which frees up swing gates for more international flying.
Last edited by YYZORD on Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Vladex
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:37 pm

So is there any A350, A330 NEO , A320 NEO at YYZ? I know there is one A380 at least.
YYZ must be the most populous anti Airbus airport in the world
 
Vladex
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:37 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Vladex wrote:
I can see probably JAL when they get A350


JAL would be a 787 to start if it were to happen. JAL is the first customer of the A350-942, which is a significantly lower weight model, they will be used domestically on short haul routes, and don't have nearly enough range for North America.


I was daydreaming that I was going to see A350 around here.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:41 pm

Many are coming to YYZ this year, Lufthansa A350, British Airways A350, Ethiopian Airlines A350, Phillippine Airlines A350, and Cathay Pacific A350.

Vladex wrote:
So is there any A350, A330 NEO , A320 NEO at YYZ? I know there is one A380 at least.
YYZ must be the most populous anti Airbus airport in the world
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:58 pm

Vladex wrote:
So is there any A350, A330 NEO , A320 NEO at YYZ? I know there is one A380 at least.
YYZ must be the most populous anti Airbus airport in the world


TAP begins A330neo service this summer. Interjet and Avianca frequently use their A320neos to YYZ, and Air Transat will soon begin taking delivery of their A321neos, which will likely feature quite prominently at YYZ.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:40 pm

AC is showing 777-300/ER HD on YYZ-MUC for the balance of April, vs the planned 789. Pretty sizeable increase in seats, especially considering the LH upguage to the A359 as well. Represents an increase of 190 seats each way per day, or roughly 26% more capacity.
 
Vladex
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:27 pm

YYZORD wrote:
Many are coming to YYZ this year, Lufthansa A350, British Airways A350, Ethiopian Airlines A350, Phillippine Airlines A350, and Cathay Pacific A350.

it was about time
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:48 am

It's also about time that a japanese carrier finally serves YYZ

Vladex wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Many are coming to YYZ this year, Lufthansa A350, British Airways A350, Ethiopian Airlines A350, Phillippine Airlines A350, and Cathay Pacific A350.

it was about time
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:53 pm

Cathay has scheduled the afternoon flight on the A350-1000 for the winter. Shows 3x weekly at the moment. Daily 77W remains on the night flight.

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 99424?s=20
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:09 pm

This is great, I was planning to go to Thailand this winter instead of the usual Florida or Arizona so riding the a350 should be great!

whywhyzee wrote:
Cathay has scheduled the afternoon flight on the A350-1000 for the winter. Shows 3x weekly at the moment. Daily 77W remains on the night flight.

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 99424?s=20
 
yulexpansion
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:16 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
YYZORD wrote:

2020 is looking like it'll be a really strong year for international growth out of YYZ, especially coming on the heels of a strong 2019 for the incumbents.

I have seen pretty substantial talk that SAS, Swiss, ANA/JAL are considering YYZ, not to mention Air Serbia who have officially stated they are in the process of finalizing a YYZ service plan. There is also WS who will likely be flying a couple international routes out of YYZ on the 789 by this time next year. All in all, it's fair to say we might end up seeing ~3x daily new widebody services from not AC next summer, which is pretty substantial, would likely bring in an additional 1000 international passengers/day, in a segment that is already growing incredibly fast from Toronto. O/D is still very high, was at 71% for all services as of q3 2018, I haven't seen the data from Q4 yet, but 2017 -> 2018 YoY was actually an increase in O/D percentage, which indicates to me that there is certainly potential for growth to continue.

I would suggest that ANA is the most likely of the internationals to begin service, would be a welcome sight at T1 for sure. With the new gates opening, there is room for roughly 25 additional flights per day, which frees up swing gates for more international flying.


It would make sense for LX to consider YYZ within the A++ JV given their upcoming 77W delivery. This would probably have to be coordinated with AC given their considerable capacity on the market. SAS doesn't have much competitive advantage over AC on this unless they operate from ARN, but even the 333 seems to be slightly too large for the market.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:30 pm

Yes I agree, LX should be similar to LH and coordinate with AC on their ZRH-YYZ route. I would assume that CA could also add PEK-YYZ if the bilaterals increase and it could compliment the AC daily flight on that route as both have a JV together. It bothers me though that SK doesn't offer flights to at least YYZ from ARN or OSL. At least serve one canadian hub airport and those two cities are missing from YYZ's network and could be beneficial if they want to compete with nearby airports like ORD and JFK and as AC serves CPH, those other two cities can be served by SK to improve the YYZ network as a whole and AC/SK are partners too which helps.

yulexpansion wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
YYZORD wrote:

2020 is looking like it'll be a really strong year for international growth out of YYZ, especially coming on the heels of a strong 2019 for the incumbents.

I have seen pretty substantial talk that SAS, Swiss, ANA/JAL are considering YYZ, not to mention Air Serbia who have officially stated they are in the process of finalizing a YYZ service plan. There is also WS who will likely be flying a couple international routes out of YYZ on the 789 by this time next year. All in all, it's fair to say we might end up seeing ~3x daily new widebody services from not AC next summer, which is pretty substantial, would likely bring in an additional 1000 international passengers/day, in a segment that is already growing incredibly fast from Toronto. O/D is still very high, was at 71% for all services as of q3 2018, I haven't seen the data from Q4 yet, but 2017 -> 2018 YoY was actually an increase in O/D percentage, which indicates to me that there is certainly potential for growth to continue.

I would suggest that ANA is the most likely of the internationals to begin service, would be a welcome sight at T1 for sure. With the new gates opening, there is room for roughly 25 additional flights per day, which frees up swing gates for more international flying.


It would make sense for LX to consider YYZ within the A++ JV given their upcoming 77W delivery. This would probably have to be coordinated with AC given their considerable capacity on the market. SAS doesn't have much competitive advantage over AC on this unless they operate from ARN, but even the 333 seems to be slightly too large for the market.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:35 pm

yulexpansion wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
YYZORD wrote:

2020 is looking like it'll be a really strong year for international growth out of YYZ, especially coming on the heels of a strong 2019 for the incumbents.

I have seen pretty substantial talk that SAS, Swiss, ANA/JAL are considering YYZ, not to mention Air Serbia who have officially stated they are in the process of finalizing a YYZ service plan. There is also WS who will likely be flying a couple international routes out of YYZ on the 789 by this time next year. All in all, it's fair to say we might end up seeing ~3x daily new widebody services from not AC next summer, which is pretty substantial, would likely bring in an additional 1000 international passengers/day, in a segment that is already growing incredibly fast from Toronto. O/D is still very high, was at 71% for all services as of q3 2018, I haven't seen the data from Q4 yet, but 2017 -> 2018 YoY was actually an increase in O/D percentage, which indicates to me that there is certainly potential for growth to continue.

I would suggest that ANA is the most likely of the internationals to begin service, would be a welcome sight at T1 for sure. With the new gates opening, there is room for roughly 25 additional flights per day, which frees up swing gates for more international flying.


It would make sense for LX to consider YYZ within the A++ JV given their upcoming 77W delivery. This would probably have to be coordinated with AC given their considerable capacity on the market. SAS doesn't have much competitive advantage over AC on this unless they operate from ARN, but even the 333 seems to be slightly too large for the market.


The idea with SAS would be their upcoming A321NeoLRs. AC has YYZ-CPH pretty well covered with the A333/77W, but an ARN flight might make a lot of sense to YYZ, or even OSL. Scandinavia is lacking from YYZ, since the departure of Finnair, it's only AC to CPH serving the market.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:37 pm

YYZORD wrote:
Yes I agree, LX should be similar to LH and coordinate with AC on their ZRH-YYZ route. I would assume that CA could also add PEK-YYZ if the bilaterals increase and it could compliment the AC daily flight on that route as both have a JV together. It bothers me though that SK doesn't offer flights to at least YYZ from ARN or OSL. At least serve one canadian hub airport and those two cities are missing from YYZ's network and could be beneficial if they want to compete with nearby airports like ORD and JFK and as AC serves CPH, those other two cities can be served by SK to improve the YYZ network as a whole and AC/SK are partners too which helps.

yulexpansion wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
2020 is looking like it'll be a really strong year for international growth out of YYZ, especially coming on the heels of a strong 2019 for the incumbents.

I have seen pretty substantial talk that SAS, Swiss, ANA/JAL are considering YYZ, not to mention Air Serbia who have officially stated they are in the process of finalizing a YYZ service plan. There is also WS who will likely be flying a couple international routes out of YYZ on the 789 by this time next year. All in all, it's fair to say we might end up seeing ~3x daily new widebody services from not AC next summer, which is pretty substantial, would likely bring in an additional 1000 international passengers/day, in a segment that is already growing incredibly fast from Toronto. O/D is still very high, was at 71% for all services as of q3 2018, I haven't seen the data from Q4 yet, but 2017 -> 2018 YoY was actually an increase in O/D percentage, which indicates to me that there is certainly potential for growth to continue.

I would suggest that ANA is the most likely of the internationals to begin service, would be a welcome sight at T1 for sure. With the new gates opening, there is room for roughly 25 additional flights per day, which frees up swing gates for more international flying.


It would make sense for LX to consider YYZ within the A++ JV given their upcoming 77W delivery. This would probably have to be coordinated with AC given their considerable capacity on the market. SAS doesn't have much competitive advantage over AC on this unless they operate from ARN, but even the 333 seems to be slightly too large for the market.


I wouldn't think about any additional Canada-China bilateral expansion right now, relations aren't exactly very good between Canada and China at the moment.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:00 pm

True, then I guess in the meantime, future carriers to YYZ will most likely be NH, JL, LX, SK, and JU for at least 2020.

whywhyzee wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Yes I agree, LX should be similar to LH and coordinate with AC on their ZRH-YYZ route. I would assume that CA could also add PEK-YYZ if the bilaterals increase and it could compliment the AC daily flight on that route as both have a JV together. It bothers me though that SK doesn't offer flights to at least YYZ from ARN or OSL. At least serve one canadian hub airport and those two cities are missing from YYZ's network and could be beneficial if they want to compete with nearby airports like ORD and JFK and as AC serves CPH, those other two cities can be served by SK to improve the YYZ network as a whole and AC/SK are partners too which helps.

yulexpansion wrote:

It would make sense for LX to consider YYZ within the A++ JV given their upcoming 77W delivery. This would probably have to be coordinated with AC given their considerable capacity on the market. SAS doesn't have much competitive advantage over AC on this unless they operate from ARN, but even the 333 seems to be slightly too large for the market.


I wouldn't think about any additional Canada-China bilateral expansion right now, relations aren't exactly very good between Canada and China at the moment.
 
yulexpansion
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:21 pm

YYZORD wrote:
True, then I guess in the meantime, future carriers to YYZ will most likely be NH, JL, LX, SK, and JU for at least 2020.

whywhyzee wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Yes I agree, LX should be similar to LH and coordinate with AC on their ZRH-YYZ route. I would assume that CA could also add PEK-YYZ if the bilaterals increase and it could compliment the AC daily flight on that route as both have a JV together. It bothers me though that SK doesn't offer flights to at least YYZ from ARN or OSL. At least serve one canadian hub airport and those two cities are missing from YYZ's network and could be beneficial if they want to compete with nearby airports like ORD and JFK and as AC serves CPH, those other two cities can be served by SK to improve the YYZ network as a whole and AC/SK are partners too which helps.



I wouldn't think about any additional Canada-China bilateral expansion right now, relations aren't exactly very good between Canada and China at the moment.


BEG could also be a Rouge destination, following on the ZAG/BUD/OTP trend, it would fit nicely in AC's portfolio. However, the question is whether they have spare aircraft to begin this route 2-3w to start off before JU.
 
User avatar
BirdBrain
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:54 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:46 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
AC is showing 777-300/ER HD on YYZ-MUC for the balance of April, vs the planned 789. Pretty sizeable increase in seats, especially considering the LH upguage to the A359 as well. Represents an increase of 190 seats each way per day, or roughly 26% more capacity.


Just saw a tweet of LH A359 on short final at YYZ from MUC. She is a pretty bird.
Check out @TomPodolec’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/TomPodolec/status/1 ... 93856?s=09
Sorry, I don't know how to show the tweet here.
 
Flightsimboy
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:49 pm

Re: Toronto Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:18 pm

Sorry if already posted or discussed. Cathay Pacific begins Airbus A350-1000 service in W19.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ce-in-w19/
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos