sagechan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:26 am

kcrwflyer wrote:
CRW-IAH is an extremely unique route and not a good gauge for that market. Very unique business / energy ties between those two cities allows sky high local fares. A DFW flight would have to use an E75 / CR7 off CRW's runway, which automatically gives you more seats than you really need. I would also be floored if any AA added DFW to any spoke that's a 40 minute flight from CLT and can't even sustain 5x to CLT year round, on all 50 seat equipment at that. ORD seems like a much more logical fit but AA couldn't make that work a few years ago.




CRW-IAH still has fairly strong oil and gas ties to IAH, but they are no where near what they were when the flight was established. Many of the regional headquarters are gone and what is left is mostly production operations, still important but it's not what it was.

When AA had DFW-CRW for about 2 years it had solid loads and high ancillary bag revenue, though I don't think yields we're great. Unfortunately it was run on a CR2 for 2.5 hrs and had nearly daily operational restrictions and usually had the loads to require moving pax off the flight. A CR7 is probably the right size equipment though a E175 is probably more likely unless another 700 operator moves into DFW. CRW is still fairly steady at 5x CLT per day with the occasional schedule with a 700 or 900, and regular PSA uoguage substitution for operational reasons. If DFW we're to be added I would expect at least 1 CLT to be reduced though.
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flyguy84
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:29 am

B1168 wrote:
They should probably bring in a few more destinations to Asia... It is suffocatingly tough to call it the largest airline with only 42 weekly worth of flights from the entire China, including Hong Kong, some of which are done using mere 788s.
It is about time they begin exploiting CZ’s partnership and subsidies. If SZX-DUB can come true, what can’t?

BTW, I wonder if DFW-KEF/ANC can be done in a 7M8 if MIA-BSB have no problem with that. That is smaller than 757s.

UA does IAH-ANC in a B39M ...
SFO
 
B1168
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:00 am

flyguy84 wrote:
B1168 wrote:
They should probably bring in a few more destinations to Asia... It is suffocatingly tough to call it the largest airline with only 42 weekly worth of flights from the entire China, including Hong Kong, some of which are done using mere 788s.
It is about time they begin exploiting CZ’s partnership and subsidies. If SZX-DUB can come true, what can’t?

BTW, I wonder if DFW-KEF/ANC can be done in a 7M8 if MIA-BSB have no problem with that. That is smaller than 757s.

UA does IAH-ANC in a B39M ...


Wow. 7m9 can’t be longer in range than a 7m8. It is astonishing to know UA’s intention of this. Is their IAH-ANC planning to be year-round or receive widebody service?
 
FSDan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:18 pm

kcrwflyer wrote:
A DFW flight would have to use an E75 / CR7 off CRW's runway, which automatically gives you more seats than you really need.


Why wouldn't an ER4 work? That's what UA uses to IAH, and DFW's slightly closer to CRW...
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sagechan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:30 pm

FSDan wrote:
kcrwflyer wrote:
A DFW flight would have to use an E75 / CR7 off CRW's runway, which automatically gives you more seats than you really need.


Why wouldn't an ER4 work? That's what UA uses to IAH, and DFW's slightly closer to CRW...

UA uses an XR Envoy's aren't that model. Envoy would struggle with them to ORD at times.
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kcrwflyer
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:19 am

FSDan wrote:
kcrwflyer wrote:
A DFW flight would have to use an E75 / CR7 off CRW's runway, which automatically gives you more seats than you really need.


Why wouldn't an ER4 work? That's what UA uses to IAH, and DFW's slightly closer to CRW...


UA uses the 145XR, which is the best performer of anything with 50 seats, and still often takes restrictions. At one point they were only selling 39 seats outbound. All 145's at AA's disposal are older models with runway performance that leaves much to be desired.
 
FSDan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:17 pm

Ah, got it! That totally makes sense.
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Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:23 am

American delays the 787s from PHL and adds PHL-AMS as 787-8.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -jan-2020/

As well as more 737 MAX 8 routes out of LAX/MIA
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -may-2019/
 
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yyz717
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:36 pm

AA cancelled the daily LAX-YYZ A319 service in January. Route was initiated in 1974 and has been cancelled a couple of times over the past 45 years. I suspect this might the end of this route for AA.

Does anyone know if this is seasonal or permanent? Last couple of year AA added a 2nd daily periodically including during the Toronto Film Festival.

Sad to see this AA route go, and to see the continual pullback of AA mainline at YYZ.
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9w748capt
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:01 pm

yyz717 wrote:
AA cancelled the daily LAX-YYZ A319 service in January. Route was initiated in 1974 and has been cancelled a couple of times over the past 45 years. I suspect this might the end of this route for AA.

Does anyone know if this is seasonal or permanent? Last couple of year AA added a 2nd daily periodically including during the Toronto Film Festival.

Sad to see this AA route go, and to see the continual pullback of AA mainline at YYZ.


Jeez ... doesn't AC run multiple widebodies on this route? Although that may be the point - what sane person would choose AA over AC?
 
jplatts
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:17 pm

9w748capt wrote:
yyz717 wrote:
AA cancelled the daily LAX-YYZ A319 service in January. Route was initiated in 1974 and has been cancelled a couple of times over the past 45 years. I suspect this might the end of this route for AA.

Does anyone know if this is seasonal or permanent? Last couple of year AA added a 2nd daily periodically including during the Toronto Film Festival.

Sad to see this AA route go, and to see the continual pullback of AA mainline at YYZ.


Jeez ... doesn't AC run multiple widebodies on this route? Although that may be the point - what sane person would choose AA over AC?


While AA, DL, and UA all have hubs at LAX, AA has more market share at LAX than any other carrier does. There are probably some AA frequent flyers in Greater Los Angeles who would choose AA over AC, whereas most Canadians traveling to LAX would choose AC or WS over AA.
 
dfdubflyer
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:46 am

United move with the CRJ550 is interesting. I wonder if such an aircraft at AA could help reposition it somehow in the LGA/JFK market where they seem somewhat listless (a much discussed topic, I know).

Just to give an example of a theoretical route, you could have an early morning departure from LGA serving primarily NYC outbound demand
LGA-GRR 06:30 - 8:30
An outbound from Chicago for their outbounds
ORD-GRR 06:30-8:00

And then you have a turn for both of those aircraft going the opposite direction to help cover GRR-XXX demand

Or, does American have the F capacity it needs in its regional fleet with the ample E175 fleet?
 
miaami
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:40 pm

AA announced today (2/7/19) that PHX-LHR will go year round instead of the previously announced seasonal service.
 
redwingspilot
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:10 pm

miaami wrote:
AA announced today (2/7/19) that PHX-LHR will go year round instead of the previously announced seasonal service.


Back in August, we announced new seasonal service between PHX and London Heathrow (LHR), which is set to begin March 31. Today, Vasu Raja, Vice President of Network and Schedule Planning, announced that we will instead operate these flights year-round. The service, operated on a Boeing 777-200 featuring Premium Economy, complements existing service between PHX and LHR provided by our Atlantic Joint Business partner British Airways. Flights through the fall and winter are available for purchase today.
 
YYZORD
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:18 pm

I think that AA adding PHX-YYZ is better as AA has more domestic destinations from PHX and a better catchment area compared to LAX. Also PHX is home to Canadian snowbirds so you get traffic from all kinds.
 
Fargo
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:55 pm

redwingspilot wrote:
miaami wrote:
AA announced today (2/7/19) that PHX-LHR will go year round instead of the previously announced seasonal service.


Back in August, we announced new seasonal service between PHX and London Heathrow (LHR), which is set to begin March 31. Today, Vasu Raja, Vice President of Network and Schedule Planning, announced that we will instead operate these flights year-round. The service, operated on a Boeing 777-200 featuring Premium Economy, complements existing service between PHX and LHR provided by our Atlantic Joint Business partner British Airways. Flights through the fall and winter are available for purchase today.


Interesting. What was the rationale for extending the service? And how many times a week is this going to be?
 
cm642
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:11 pm

Fargo wrote:
redwingspilot wrote:
miaami wrote:
AA announced today (2/7/19) that PHX-LHR will go year round instead of the previously announced seasonal service.


Back in August, we announced new seasonal service between PHX and London Heathrow (LHR), which is set to begin March 31. Today, Vasu Raja, Vice President of Network and Schedule Planning, announced that we will instead operate these flights year-round. The service, operated on a Boeing 777-200 featuring Premium Economy, complements existing service between PHX and LHR provided by our Atlantic Joint Business partner British Airways. Flights through the fall and winter are available for purchase today.


Interesting. What was the rationale for extending the service? And how many times a week is this going to be?


https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/airlines/2019/02/07/american-airlines-phoenix-london-flight-expands-year-round/2795927002/

"American said Thursday that the daily flight to London will now operate year-round. The Dallas-based carrier originally planned to operate the route seasonally, from March 31 to Oct. 26. After strong bookings from Europe to Phoenix over the summer months, the airline saw opportunity to expand the route."
 
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American 767
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:13 pm

jplatts wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
yyz717 wrote:
AA cancelled the daily LAX-YYZ A319 service in January. Route was initiated in 1974 and has been cancelled a couple of times over the past 45 years. I suspect this might the end of this route for AA.

Does anyone know if this is seasonal or permanent? Last couple of year AA added a 2nd daily periodically including during the Toronto Film Festival.

Sad to see this AA route go, and to see the continual pullback of AA mainline at YYZ.


Jeez ... doesn't AC run multiple widebodies on this route? Although that may be the point - what sane person would choose AA over AC?


While AA, DL, and UA all have hubs at LAX, AA has more market share at LAX than any other carrier does. There are probably some AA frequent flyers in Greater Los Angeles who would choose AA over AC, whereas most Canadians traveling to LAX would choose AC or WS over AA.


A Delta frequent flyer who lives in Los Angeles would choose WS, since DL and WS now codeshare with each other on US/Canada transborder flights.
Most travelers choose to fly with whoever they are affiliated with, whether personally or by corporate contracts.

Anyway, back to the topic, yes it looks like American is loosing market share in YYZ, not surprising because YYZ is mostly dominated by Air Canada and Westjet. Besides DFW, where else does American still fly mainline out of YYZ?
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:04 pm

American 767 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

Jeez ... doesn't AC run multiple widebodies on this route? Although that may be the point - what sane person would choose AA over AC?


While AA, DL, and UA all have hubs at LAX, AA has more market share at LAX than any other carrier does. There are probably some AA frequent flyers in Greater Los Angeles who would choose AA over AC, whereas most Canadians traveling to LAX would choose AC or WS over AA.


A Delta frequent flyer who lives in Los Angeles would choose WS, since DL and WS now codeshare with each other on US/Canada transborder flights.
Most travelers choose to fly with whoever they are affiliated with, whether personally or by corporate contracts.

Anyway, back to the topic, yes it looks like American is loosing market share in YYZ, not surprising because YYZ is mostly dominated by Air Canada and Westjet. Besides DFW, where else does American still fly mainline out of YYZ?

MIA has 3x on A319 typically IIRC.
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YYZORD
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:40 am

It doesn't make sense how BUF-CLT could be AA mainline but YYZ-CLT is AA eagle?
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:29 am

Isn’t YYZ-MIA mainline?
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:35 am

dfdubflyer wrote:
United move with the CRJ550 is interesting. I wonder if such an aircraft at AA could help reposition it somehow in the LGA/JFK market where they seem somewhat listless (a much discussed topic, I know).

Just to give an example of a theoretical route, you could have an early morning departure from LGA serving primarily NYC outbound demand
LGA-GRR 06:30 - 8:30
An outbound from Chicago for their outbounds
ORD-GRR 06:30-8:00

And then you have a turn for both of those aircraft going the opposite direction to help cover GRR-XXX demand

Or, does American have the F capacity it needs in its regional fleet with the ample E175 fleet?

AA doesn’t need a 70 plane refitted to 50 seats when they still have 76 seat panes on order. Remember United is forced to take CRJ-550s only because of scope.
 
hz747300
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:39 am

Rumor is that AA is going to bring back the milk run. It will be DFW-MAF-ELP-LRU-SVC-SAD-TUS-PHX, flown 2x daily, except Saturdays then 1x. I guess it could only be the CRJ2, but my source didn't know which equipment was going to be used.
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UpNAWAy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:54 am

Zero chance of that milk run happening. It's Hub flying only for the express flights. If they are not feeding the hubs they are useless.
 
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FA9295
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:57 am

hz747300 wrote:
Rumor is that AA is going to bring back the milk run. It will be DFW-MAF-ELP-LRU-SVC-SAD-TUS-PHX, flown 2x daily, except Saturdays then 1x. I guess it could only be the CRJ2, but my source didn't know which equipment was going to be used.

And how exactly would AA make any money off of that kind of route?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:40 pm

Does the potential of LAS-HND mean AA would be open to adding p2p routes from LAS, AA's strategy has been anti-p2p as of late but they may make an exception.
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tphuang
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:02 pm

interesting chart in this article.
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... ry-anymore
estimated profitability in each hubs.
CLT 14.3%
DCA 13.6%
DFW 12.7%
ORD 11.4%
PHL 11.4%
PHX 9.6%
MIA 6.7%
JFK 3.1%
LGA -0.8%
LAX -0.9%
a little surprised DFW isn't higher than that. CLT also isn't as high as I expected given how much AA dominates there. JFK is higher than what I would've guessed, but that's probably mostly due to LHR profits. Also, ORD is higher than I expected given strength of UA in Chicago. Also, really not good numbers out of MIA and LGA.
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:16 pm

tphuang wrote:
interesting chart in this article.
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... ry-anymore
estimated profitability in each hubs.
CLT 14.3%
DCA 13.6%
DFW 12.7%
ORD 11.4%
PHL 11.4%
PHX 9.6%
MIA 6.7%
JFK 3.1%
LGA -0.8%
LAX -0.9%
a little surprised DFW isn't higher than that. CLT also isn't as high as I expected given how much AA dominates there. JFK is higher than what I would've guessed, but that's probably mostly due to LHR profits. Also, ORD is higher than I expected given strength of UA in Chicago. Also, really not good numbers out of MIA and LGA.


So will people shift their mind that PHX is not making money and less profitable? It can be argued that MIA, JFK, LGA and LAX should be dehubbed based on this data.... (sorry I am just tired of hearing about PHX
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HPAEAA
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:43 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Does the potential of LAS-HND mean AA would be open to adding p2p routes from LAS, AA's strategy has been anti-p2p as of late but they may make an exception.

I was a little surprised by this route too, I think the argument would be that it is a hub route since TYO is a OW hub similar to the RDU to LHR route.
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jplatts
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:45 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
tphuang wrote:
estimated profitability in each hubs.
LGA -0.8%
LAX -0.9%


It can be argued that MIA, JFK, LGA and LAX should be dehubbed based on this data.... (sorry I am just tired of hearing about PHX


While LAX is a hub for AA, DL, UA, and AS and while LAX is a focus city for WN, AA has more market share at LAX than any other airline.

AA also has nonstop service out of LAX to some destinations that AA, DL, AS, and WN do not serve nonstop from LAX such as AKL, PEK, BZE, EZE, CLT, DRO, XNA, FLG, GJT, BDL, HKG, SDF, MIA, MBJ, OKC, GRU, and TUL.

Why isn't AA's LAX hub operation profitable if AA has more market share at LAX than any other carrier?
 
OB1504
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:46 pm

tphuang wrote:
interesting chart in this article.
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... ry-anymore
estimated profitability in each hubs.
CLT 14.3%
DCA 13.6%
DFW 12.7%
ORD 11.4%
PHL 11.4%
PHX 9.6%
MIA 6.7%
JFK 3.1%
LGA -0.8%
LAX -0.9%
a little surprised DFW isn't higher than that. CLT also isn't as high as I expected given how much AA dominates there. JFK is higher than what I would've guessed, but that's probably mostly due to LHR profits. Also, ORD is higher than I expected given strength of UA in Chicago. Also, really not good numbers out of MIA and LGA.


They own MIA and completely dominate the Latin American market. How are they not making more money?
 
717atOGG
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:00 pm

I'm kinda surprised that CLT-MAD isn't year-round yet. Despite MAD being a seasonal tourist market, it's a JV hub with lots of connections on IB. Given that MAD is already served year-round from JFK, DFW, PHL, and MIA on AA and CLT is their second-largest hub, I'd think that a sub-daily A332 could probably work during the winter months.
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:00 pm

OB1504 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
interesting chart in this article.
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... ry-anymore
estimated profitability in each hubs.
CLT 14.3%
DCA 13.6%
DFW 12.7%
ORD 11.4%
PHL 11.4%
PHX 9.6%
MIA 6.7%
JFK 3.1%
LGA -0.8%
LAX -0.9%
a little surprised DFW isn't higher than that. CLT also isn't as high as I expected given how much AA dominates there. JFK is higher than what I would've guessed, but that's probably mostly due to LHR profits. Also, ORD is higher than I expected given strength of UA in Chicago. Also, really not good numbers out of MIA and LGA.


They own MIA and completely dominate the Latin American market. How are they not making more money?


Lot's of leisure traffic compared to the other hubs
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Rumack
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:04 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Does the potential of LAS-HND mean AA would be open to adding p2p routes from LAS, AA's strategy has been anti-p2p as of late but they may make an exception.

I was a little surprised by this route too, I think the argument would be that it is a hub route since TYO is a OW hub similar to the RDU to LHR route.


Isn't RDU also subsidized or there is some sort of a guarantee from RTP/local corporations? The only other p2p's I can think of in the AA network are some seasonal stuff to CUN.

Look at routes like KEF, DBV, BUD -- they seem to be willing to take more risks as of late.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:18 pm

Rumack wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Does the potential of LAS-HND mean AA would be open to adding p2p routes from LAS, AA's strategy has been anti-p2p as of late but they may make an exception.

I was a little surprised by this route too, I think the argument would be that it is a hub route since TYO is a OW hub similar to the RDU to LHR route.


Isn't RDU also subsidized or there is some sort of a guarantee from RTP/local corporations? The only other p2p's I can think of in the AA network are some seasonal stuff to CUN.

Look at routes like KEF, DBV, BUD -- they seem to be willing to take more risks as of late.

I thought I remembered reading that the subsidy had expired however there are still some corporate contracts in place which are pretty lucrative... I brought the P2P logic up in another thread and was told that for INTL one world hubs are considered hubs and any flying is not considered P2P....

Midwestindy wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
interesting chart in this article.
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... ry-anymore
estimated profitability in each hubs.
CLT 14.3%
DCA 13.6%
DFW 12.7%
ORD 11.4%
PHL 11.4%
PHX 9.6%
MIA 6.7%
JFK 3.1%
LGA -0.8%
LAX -0.9%
a little surprised DFW isn't higher than that. CLT also isn't as high as I expected given how much AA dominates there. JFK is higher than what I would've guessed, but that's probably mostly due to LHR profits. Also, ORD is higher than I expected given strength of UA in Chicago. Also, really not good numbers out of MIA and LGA.


They own MIA and completely dominate the Latin American market. How are they not making more money?


Lot's of leisure traffic compared to the other hubs

Also Not sure what time period those estimates cover but several of the large economies in South America have had pretty big issues over the past couple years which is impacting business... AA has been adjusting the network accordingly... Brazil & Argentina are headed back to positive GDP so hopefully that should stabilize things...
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masseybrown
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:18 pm

Has gate construction at DCA reduced the number of 35X parking spots? It looking like a few are missing the last time I was there.
 
tphuang
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:18 pm

OB1504 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
interesting chart in this article.
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... ry-anymore
estimated profitability in each hubs.
CLT 14.3%
DCA 13.6%
DFW 12.7%
ORD 11.4%
PHL 11.4%
PHX 9.6%
MIA 6.7%
JFK 3.1%
LGA -0.8%
LAX -0.9%
a little surprised DFW isn't higher than that. CLT also isn't as high as I expected given how much AA dominates there. JFK is higher than what I would've guessed, but that's probably mostly due to LHR profits. Also, ORD is higher than I expected given strength of UA in Chicago. Also, really not good numbers out of MIA and LGA.


They own MIA and completely dominate the Latin American market. How are they not making more money?

There is a lot of competition at FLL.
 
Austin787
Posts: 388
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:39 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:20 pm

jplatts wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
tphuang wrote:
estimated profitability in each hubs.
LGA -0.8%
LAX -0.9%


It can be argued that MIA, JFK, LGA and LAX should be dehubbed based on this data.... (sorry I am just tired of hearing about PHX


While LAX is a hub for AA, DL, UA, and AS and while LAX is a focus city for WN, AA has more market share at LAX than any other airline.

AA also has nonstop service out of LAX to some destinations that AA, DL, AS, and WN do not serve nonstop from LAX such as AKL, PEK, BZE, EZE, CLT, DRO, XNA, FLG, GJT, BDL, HKG, SDF, MIA, MBJ, OKC, GRU, and TUL.

Why isn't AA's LAX hub operation profitable if AA has more market share at LAX than any other carrier?

AA may have the most market share at LAX, but they don't dominate LAX. Lots of competition from other airlines. AA supposedly loses money on its TPAC flights, which brings down overall profitability at LAX, but AA feels it needs a TPAC presence so it flies unprofitable routes.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25750
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:33 pm

OB1504 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
They own MIA and completely dominate the Latin American market. How are they not making more money?


AA doesn't own MIA. It accounts for only a little over half the traffic at the airport (and falling).

There is competition on literally every major trunk route by not one, not two, but at least three other airlines. And Latin America is soft right now.
a.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 236
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:11 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
They own MIA and completely dominate the Latin American market. How are they not making more money?


AA doesn't own MIA. It accounts for only a little over half the traffic at the airport (and falling).

There is competition on literally every major trunk route by not one, not two, but at least three other airlines. And Latin America is soft right now.


A number of new lower cost entrants from Europe. I see liveries for airlines I've never heard of, like Air Italy a few weeks ago.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:57 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
They own MIA and completely dominate the Latin American market. How are they not making more money?


AA doesn't own MIA. It accounts for only a little over half the traffic at the airport (and falling).

There is competition on literally every major trunk route by not one, not two, but at least three other airlines. And Latin America is soft right now.

Not sure what you mean by “ trunk route” but looking at a schedule for next Thursday, March 14;
SEA - AA only
LAX - AA only
SFO - AA and UA
DEN - AA, UA and F9
ORD - AA, UA and F9
DFW - AA only
IAH - AA and UA
BOS - AA only
DCA - AA only (UA has 1 to IAD)
EWR - AA and UA
JFK - AA and DL
LGA - AA, DL and F9
DTW - AA and DL
MSP - AA and DL
So outside of NYC area which has multiple flights between AA, UA and DL from different airports there are only
2 areas that have 3 carriers offering flights and F9 only has 1 flight to DEN and ORD against multiple AA flights.
Maybe I’m not understanding what trunk routes your talking about.
I’m genuinely not trying to be a jerk about this I just wanted to look it up.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5462
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:54 pm

You guys are discounting FLL

Miami doesnt operate in a vaccum, especially domestically

B6, NK, DL, WN all have large domestic ops in FLL, which in turn, effect MIA fares. MIA also has much higher costs than FLL
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25750
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:49 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
OB1504 wrote:


AA doesn't own MIA. It accounts for only a little over half the traffic at the airport (and falling).

There is competition on literally every major trunk route by not one, not two, but at least three other airlines. And Latin America is soft right now.

Not sure what you mean by “ trunk route” but looking at a schedule for next Thursday, March 14;
SEA - AA only
LAX - AA only
SFO - AA and UA
DEN - AA, UA and F9
ORD - AA, UA and F9
DFW - AA only
IAH - AA and UA
BOS - AA only
DCA - AA only (UA has 1 to IAD)
EWR - AA and UA
JFK - AA and DL
LGA - AA, DL and F9
DTW - AA and DL
MSP - AA and DL
So outside of NYC area which has multiple flights between AA, UA and DL from different airports there are only
2 areas that have 3 carriers offering flights and F9 only has 1 flight to DEN and ORD against multiple AA flights.
Maybe I’m not understanding what trunk routes your talking about.
I’m genuinely not trying to be a jerk about this I just wanted to look it up.


You are ignoring FLL right up the road. You are also ignoring international trunk routes. Bogota has six airlines, Paris has five airlines, London has four airlines, Buenos Aires has three airlines, Guayaquil has four airlines, etc., etc.

And as to your list, it's:
SEA - AA, NK, DL
LAX - AA, NK, DL, AS, B6
SFO - AA, UA, B6
DEN - AA, UA, F9, NK, WN
ORD - AA, UA, F9, B6, NK, WN (MDW)
DFW - AA, NK, WN (DAL)
IAH - AA (IAH+HOU), UA, WN, NK
BOS - AA, DL, B6, NK
DCA - AA, DL, B6, WN
EWR - AA, UA, B6, NK
JFK - AA, DL, B6
LGA - AA, DL, F9, NK, WN
DTW - AA, DL, NK
MSP - AA, SY, DL, NK, WN

Look at long haul, competition is nuts:

Buenos Aires - AA, 4M, AR
Bogota - AA, AV, LA, B6, NK
Lima - AA, NK, LA, AV, B6
Guayaquil - AA, EQ, NK, B6
London - AA, BA, VS, D8
Madrid - AA, IB, UX, D8
Montreal - AA, AC, WS, TS
Nassau - AA, B6, WN, UP
Paris - AA, AF, D8, SE, SS
San Jose - AA, B6, WN, NK
Sao Paulo - AA, JJ, AD
Toronto - AA, AC, WS, WG, TS
a.
 
F9LASDEN
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:27 am

jfklganyc wrote:
You guys are discounting FLL

Miami doesnt operate in a vaccum, especially domestically

B6, NK, DL, WN all have large domestic ops in FLL, which in turn, effect MIA fares. MIA also has much higher costs than FLL


Precisely. Looking at the same cities identified above as "trunk routes", for Thursday, March 14, the same date used above, FLL will see:
-SEA: AS (MIA+FLL: 2 carriers)
-LAX: AS, B6, and NK (MIA+FLL: 4 carriers)
-SFO: AS, UA, and B6 (FLL+MIA: 4 carriers, with UA serving both MIA and FLL)
-DEN: UA, WN, NK, and F9 (their first day operating the route) (MIA+FLL: 5 carriers, with UA and F9 serving both MIA and FLL)
-ORD: B6, NK, UA, and AA (plus WN at MDW) (MIA+FLL: 5 carriers, with UA and AA serving both MIA and FLL)
-DFW: AA and NK (plus WN to DAL) (MIA+FLL: 3 carriers, with AA serving both MIA and FLL)
-IAH: UA and NK (plus WN to HOU) (MIA+FLL: 4 carriers, with UA serving both MIA and FLL)
-BOS: B6, DL, and NK (MIA+FLL: 4 carriers)
-DCA: B6 and WN (plus UA to IAD) (MIA+FLL: 4 carriers, with UA serving both MIA and FLL
-EWR: UA, B6, and NK (MIA+FLL: 4 carriers, with UA serving both MIA and FLL)
-JFK: DL and B6 (MIA+FLL: 3 carriers, with DL serving both MIA and FLL)
-LGA: DL, B6, and NK (MIA+FLL: 5 carriers, with DL serving both MIA and FLL)
-DTW: DL and NK (MIA+FLL: 3 carriers, with DL serving both MIA and FLL)
-MSP: DL and NK (MIA+FLL: 3 carriers, with DL serving both MIA and FLL)
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Midwestindy
Posts: 4149
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:20 am

Perhaps I miscounted, but it appears that AA mainline/AA eagle will be down to 84 daily departures from JFK in June.....quite impressive
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:37 am

MAH4546 wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

AA doesn't own MIA. It accounts for only a little over half the traffic at the airport (and falling).

There is competition on literally every major trunk route by not one, not two, but at least three other airlines. And Latin America is soft right now.

Not sure what you mean by “ trunk route” but looking at a schedule for next Thursday, March 14;
SEA - AA only
LAX - AA only
SFO - AA and UA
DEN - AA, UA and F9
ORD - AA, UA and F9
DFW - AA only
IAH - AA and UA
BOS - AA only
DCA - AA only (UA has 1 to IAD)
EWR - AA and UA
JFK - AA and DL
LGA - AA, DL and F9
DTW - AA and DL
MSP - AA and DL
So outside of NYC area which has multiple flights between AA, UA and DL from different airports there are only
2 areas that have 3 carriers offering flights and F9 only has 1 flight to DEN and ORD against multiple AA flights.
Maybe I’m not understanding what trunk routes your talking about.
I’m genuinely not trying to be a jerk about this I just wanted to look it up.


You are ignoring FLL right up the road. You are also ignoring international trunk routes. Bogota has six airlines, Paris has five airlines, London has four airlines, Buenos Aires has three airlines, Guayaquil has four airlines, etc., etc.

And as to your list, it's:
SEA - AA, NK, DL
LAX - AA, NK, DL, AS, B6
SFO - AA, UA, B6
DEN - AA, UA, F9, NK, WN
ORD - AA, UA, F9, B6, NK, WN (MDW)
DFW - AA, NK, WN (DAL)
IAH - AA (IAH+HOU), UA, WN, NK
BOS - AA, DL, B6, NK
DCA - AA, DL, B6, WN
EWR - AA, UA, B6, NK
JFK - AA, DL, B6
LGA - AA, DL, F9, NK, WN
DTW - AA, DL, NK
MSP - AA, SY, DL, NK, WN

Look at long haul, competition is nuts:

Buenos Aires - AA, 4M, AR
Bogota - AA, AV, LA, B6, NK
Lima - AA, NK, LA, AV, B6
Guayaquil - AA, EQ, NK, B6
London - AA, BA, VS, D8
Madrid - AA, IB, UX, D8
Montreal - AA, AC, WS, TS
Nassau - AA, B6, WN, UP
Paris - AA, AF, D8, SE, SS
San Jose - AA, B6, WN, NK
Sao Paulo - AA, JJ, AD
Toronto - AA, AC, WS, WG, TS

Yes, your right about FLL being part of the South Florida market I was just responding to your claim about AA and MIA specifically. You’re absolutely correct about FLL affecting AA in the market just as WN at MDW affects the Chicago market. But then it also would seem difficult to find any domestic trunk route without 3 or more carriers on it.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 675
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:58 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
They own MIA and completely dominate the Latin American market. How are they not making more money?


AA doesn't own MIA. It accounts for only a little over half the traffic at the airport (and falling).

There is competition on literally every major trunk route by not one, not two, but at least three other airlines. And Latin America is soft right now.


Exactly. Plus with AA continually degrading its product, it's no wonder that more and more people are open to competition from the LCCs at FLL and foreign flag carriers at MIA.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2618
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:43 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Perhaps I miscounted, but it appears that AA mainline/AA eagle will be down to 84 daily departures from JFK in June.....quite impressive


That's what I counted this morning as well. Pretty sad, especially since some of the cuts are to transcon flights (SEA, LAX, SAN, LAS) that should be the ones that perform well at JFK.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4440
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:50 pm

FSDan wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Perhaps I miscounted, but it appears that AA mainline/AA eagle will be down to 84 daily departures from JFK in June.....quite impressive


That's what I counted this morning as well. Pretty sad, especially since some of the cuts are to transcon flights (SEA, LAX, SAN, LAS) that should be the ones that perform well at JFK.


They are cutting also JFK-MCO which I believe is 2x daily. Yes, it's incredible how many gates in T8 remain empty for a long period of time. I was there a few days ago. So the only transcon flights that will remain will be PHX, LAX and SFO. Gone already are SJC and SNA.
Ben Soriano
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6314
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:20 pm

American 767 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Perhaps I miscounted, but it appears that AA mainline/AA eagle will be down to 84 daily departures from JFK in June.....quite impressive


That's what I counted this morning as well. Pretty sad, especially since some of the cuts are to transcon flights (SEA, LAX, SAN, LAS) that should be the ones that perform well at JFK.


They are cutting also JFK-MCO which I believe is 2x daily. Yes, it's incredible how many gates in T8 remain empty for a long period of time. I was there a few days ago. So the only transcon flights that will remain will be PHX, LAX and SFO. Gone already are SJC and SNA.


SJC-JFK on AA has been gone since 2006. AS, B6, and DL fly it.

Does AA also fly JFK-SAN?

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