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Lewton
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:23 pm

Important question: has Airbus now removed from the order book all cancelled orders (from the ones we know about) or are there still more to come?
From Hamburg with love.
 
george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:35 pm

Lewton wrote:
The 49 deliveries are quite impressive though.
Looking forward to an intense fight for the most deliveries this year.


Yes indeed. Their predictions were very close, including the A220 now for Airbus.

It should be Boeing by very little based on predictions but could be swayed by engine issues of course...

It'll be interesting to see the order status post-Paris. The first couple months are always quite slow usually but especially this year for Airbus. We'll see.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:48 pm

george77300 wrote:
Airbus Orders February 2019

...

-31 x A380

...

- NB. no other orders booked including Emirates A330/A350

...

- Emirates A380 cancellation now in the books. (But not other order)

Actually I think you have interpreted the numbers incorrectly. Looking into the spreadsheet at https://www.airbus.com/content/dam/corp ... craft.xlsx and comparing it to previously known orders, the 31 A380 cancellations are:

  • Air Accord - 3
  • Amedeo - 20
  • Qantas - 8

The 39 Emirates orders which we know are going to be cancelled are still in the spreadsheet at the moment, which is showing 290 orders as opposed to the final figure of 251 which is expected.

I would assume Airbus and Emirates are still hammering out the finer details of the cancellation and A330/A350 order.

V/F
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WIederling
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:56 pm

Lewton wrote:
Important question: has Airbus now removed from the order book all cancelled orders (from the ones we know about) or are there still more to come?

More or a less a nonsensical question, isn't it?
Murphy is an optimist
 
george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:00 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Airbus Orders February 2019

...

-31 x A380

...

- NB. no other orders booked including Emirates A330/A350

...

- Emirates A380 cancellation now in the books. (But not other order)

Actually I think you have interpreted the numbers incorrectly. Looking into the spreadsheet at https://www.airbus.com/content/dam/corp ... craft.xlsx and comparing it to previously known orders, the 31 A380 cancellations are:

  • Air Accord - 3
  • Amedeo - 20
  • Qantas - 8

The 39 Emirates orders which we know are going to be cancelled are still in the spreadsheet at the moment, which is showing 290 orders as opposed to the final figure of 251 which is expected.

I would assume Airbus and Emirates are still hammering out the finer details of the cancellation and A330/A350 order.

V/F


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Apologies. Yes you are correct. Can't edit post now unfortunately.

I checked the rest and that seems to be correct?

You are correct about EK though, Emirates A380 cancellations not showing yet and nor is the A350/A330neo order.
 
Arion640
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:03 pm

Looking back, it was clear the A380 was on the way out with the Qantas and Air Accord orders finally being removed.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:26 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Looking back, it was clear the A380 was on the way out with the Qantas and Air Accord orders finally being removed.

We didn’t know Air Accord’s order was officially being removed until Airbus actually announced the cancellation.
 
george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:36 pm

Polot wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Looking back, it was clear the A380 was on the way out with the Qantas and Air Accord orders finally being removed.

We didn’t know Air Accord’s order was officially being removed until Airbus actually announced the cancellation.


Technically not announced until the Emirates Order about 3 weeks ago, but there was no doubt they would never be built. Same with the larger Amadeo order. And the QF order too to some degree with them stating on numerous occasions it wasn't happening. It is just finally been officially cancelled, but Airbus have known for a while that they weren't happening and it was just EK keeping the line open.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:39 pm

Sometimes you just want to get all of the bad news out of the way at once. Airbus's totals should start looking a lot more impressive from here on out, especially once the Emirates A330/A350 order is firmed.
 
george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:42 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Sometimes you just want to get all of the bad news out of the way at once. Airbus's totals should start looking a lot more impressive from here on out, especially once the Emirates A330/A350 order is firmed.


Oh for sure. After Paris I reckon they'll be positive for all (not A380 of course) but they still have the 39 Emirates A380 cancellations to come too when the 70 A350/A330neo is booked. Apart from that it'll be upwards for sure.
 
Flying-Tiger
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:23 pm

george77300 wrote:
25 x A320neo cancellation was from Germania. As they ceased operations this year, hardly surprising.


Actually that´s quite surprising as there was more or less common understanding that these orders had been transfered to a different entity prior filing for administration, and were the only "asset of value" left. Seems not the case, and seeing how fast this order has been removed from the books I guess cancellation clauses are much harder these days than they were.

On first glance a disastrous month, on second glance Airbus is not waiting in cleaning up the order book now. Can´t be much left which needs to be cleaned up, certainly not on the W/B side, if more on the N/B ceo side.
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george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:17 pm

Flying-Tiger wrote:
george77300 wrote:
25 x A320neo cancellation was from Germania. As they ceased operations this year, hardly surprising.


Actually that´s quite surprising as there was more or less common understanding that these orders had been transfered to a different entity prior filing for administration, and were the only "asset of value" left. Seems not the case, and seeing how fast this order has been removed from the books I guess cancellation clauses are much harder these days than they were.


I may be entirely mistaken but I don't think a future order (that they don't own) was the "asset of value." It was some of their A320ceo family aircraft they owned. In particular D-ASTE which was a 4.5 yr old A321ceo.

Flying-Tiger wrote:
On first glance a disastrous month, on second glance Airbus is not waiting in cleaning up the order book now. Can´t be much left which needs to be cleaned up, certainly not on the W/B side, if more on the N/B ceo side.


Agreed. It's a big deficit to catch up on widebodies, but as you said that's the worst of the cancellations now (apart from 39 EK A380 going) and the A320neo is likely to have some from some over-orderers but nothing that is imminent nor consequential and I'm sure Boeing will be in a similar boat with the 737 MAX.
 
Arion640
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:29 pm

george77300 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Looking back, it was clear the A380 was on the way out with the Qantas and Air Accord orders finally being removed.

We didn’t know Air Accord’s order was officially being removed until Airbus actually announced the cancellation.


Technically not announced until the Emirates Order about 3 weeks ago, but there was no doubt they would never be built. Same with the larger Amadeo order. And the QF order too to some degree with them stating on numerous occasions it wasn't happening. It is just finally been officially cancelled, but Airbus have known for a while that they weren't happening and it was just EK keeping the line open.


Yep. I knew none of them were ever to be taken up, but they were sat there for ages and then finally removed. I thought it was a bit strange the Qantas order was finally removed, then airbus said they’d can the A380.
 
bigjku
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:44 pm

george77300 wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:
george77300 wrote:
25 x A320neo cancellation was from Germania. As they ceased operations this year, hardly surprising.


Actually that´s quite surprising as there was more or less common understanding that these orders had been transfered to a different entity prior filing for administration, and were the only "asset of value" left. Seems not the case, and seeing how fast this order has been removed from the books I guess cancellation clauses are much harder these days than they were.


I may be entirely mistaken but I don't think a future order (that they don't own) was the "asset of value." It was some of their A320ceo family aircraft they owned. In particular D-ASTE which was a 4.5 yr old A321ceo.

Flying-Tiger wrote:
On first glance a disastrous month, on second glance Airbus is not waiting in cleaning up the order book now. Can´t be much left which needs to be cleaned up, certainly not on the W/B side, if more on the N/B ceo side.


Agreed. It's a big deficit to catch up on widebodies, but as you said that's the worst of the cancellations now (apart from 39 EK A380 going) and the A320neo is likely to have some from some over-orderers but nothing that is imminent nor consequential and I'm sure Boeing will be in a similar boat with the 737 MAX.


The Iran orders still need to be wiped out at some point. They aren’t deliverable. 28 A330neo, 10 A330 CEO, 16 A350 and 46 A320neo all need to come off the books at some point.
 
george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:53 pm

bigjku wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:

Actually that´s quite surprising as there was more or less common understanding that these orders had been transfered to a different entity prior filing for administration, and were the only "asset of value" left. Seems not the case, and seeing how fast this order has been removed from the books I guess cancellation clauses are much harder these days than they were.


I may be entirely mistaken but I don't think a future order (that they don't own) was the "asset of value." It was some of their A320ceo family aircraft they owned. In particular D-ASTE which was a 4.5 yr old A321ceo.

Flying-Tiger wrote:
On first glance a disastrous month, on second glance Airbus is not waiting in cleaning up the order book now. Can´t be much left which needs to be cleaned up, certainly not on the W/B side, if more on the N/B ceo side.


Agreed. It's a big deficit to catch up on widebodies, but as you said that's the worst of the cancellations now (apart from 39 EK A380 going) and the A320neo is likely to have some from some over-orderers but nothing that is imminent nor consequential and I'm sure Boeing will be in a similar boat with the 737 MAX.


The Iran orders still need to be wiped out at some point. They aren’t deliverable. 28 A330neo, 10 A330 CEO, 16 A350 and 46 A320neo all need to come off the books at some point.


Yes indeed but I can't see Airbus rushing to cut more of their order book... Maybe when they stop A330ceo production they will tidy that backlog too. They only did it with the A380 as they were stopping making that.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:23 am

This thread is about Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders. The Iranian orders from years prior are off-topic, to say nothing of the political discussion about them.
 
imthedreamliner
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:13 am

I can see Boeing keeping a stable momentum in terms of orders and deliveries in a year. On the other hand, Airbus is having huge ups and downs throughout the year. What can be the effects of two different scenarios on finacals, managemenet difficulties etc . ?
 
Strato2
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:15 am

george77300 wrote:
Agreed. It's a big deficit to catch up on widebodies, but as you said that's the worst of the cancellations now (apart from 39 EK A380 going) and the A320neo is likely to have some from some over-orderers but nothing that is imminent nor consequential and I'm sure Boeing will be in a similar boat with the 737 MAX.


Not forgetting the incoming 777X cancellations from Etihad which I think will not be the last for the type.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:57 am

Air Lease is identified as the UFO for 4 A350 orders, posted last December: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 0s-456454/

Strato2 wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Agreed. It's a big deficit to catch up on widebodies, but as you said that's the worst of the cancellations now (apart from 39 EK A380 going) and the A320neo is likely to have some from some over-orderers but nothing that is imminent nor consequential and I'm sure Boeing will be in a similar boat with the 737 MAX.


Not forgetting the incoming 777X cancellations from Etihad which I think will not be the last for the type.


We'll probably see some cancellations by EY in Boeing's February figures. Possibly some 787s too, next to part of the 777X order. Their 777-8 seems unnecessary after EY parked their 77L's. But I can't see any other cancellations for the 777X you desperately seem to hope for.
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mig17
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:38 am

frigatebird wrote:
But I can't see any other cancellations for the 777X you desperately seem to hope for.

Who is the unidentified customer for 10*777-9? And like EY, QR isn't doing so weel with a lot of widebody on order.
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pabloeing
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:17 am

¿When will see the boeing numbers of February?
 
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qf789
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:18 am

pabloeing wrote:
¿When will see the boeing numbers of February?


They should be released on Tuesday the 12th of March
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frigatebird
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:24 am

mig17 wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
But I can't see any other cancellations for the 777X you desperately seem to hope for.

Who is the unidentified customer for 10*777-9? And like EY, QR isn't doing so weel with a lot of widebody on order.

I heard rumors it was the Saudi Ministry of Finance, for SV.
As for QR, they are planning to place a new order at the Paris Air Show, for aircraft types they already have on order. Might even be for 777X :scratchchin: :tongue2:
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Channex757
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:26 am

seabosdca wrote:
Sometimes you just want to get all of the bad news out of the way at once. Airbus's totals should start looking a lot more impressive from here on out, especially once the Emirates A330/A350 order is firmed.

There is a lot to be said for certainty in business. All those wobbly orders are now out of the way and the money pits are starting to be filled in. Short term pain for long term gain.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:43 pm

We've had several recent threads speculating about possible 777X customers, and some names came up repeatedly. Further 777X orders at Paris would hardly be a shock, although I agree they're not guaranteed.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:09 pm

Boeing silently updated their monthly order totals.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

just 2 smaller orders in February.

BBJ: 1 737 MAX
Unidentified: 4 767-300F

Boeing did have any cancellations, so no changes to the Etihad 777X order yet.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:58 pm

Gonna guess that UFO is FedEx. If so, with these additional orders they are getting close to having enough lift on order to replace all remaining MD-10s and all converted A300s (the new-build A300 freighters being both newer and more capable).
 
george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:19 am

Boeing Orders up to February 2019

51 Gross Orders
48 Net Orders (26 x 737, 4 x 767, 18 x 787)

Airbus Orders up to February 2019

4 Gross Orders
-99 Net Orders (-1 x A220, -25 A320, -42 x A350, -31 x A380)
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:50 am

george77300 wrote:
Boeing Orders up to February 2019

51 Gross Orders
48 Net Orders (26 x 737, 4 x 767, 18 x 787)

Airbus Orders up to February 2019

4 Gross Orders
-99 Net Orders (-1 x A220, -25 A320, -42 x A350, -31 x A380)


China Southern/Unidentified conversion of 2 777-300ER to 777F now shown in Boeing’s numbers.
 
george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:34 pm

Lufthansa Orders

20 x Airbus A350-900
20 x Boeing 787-9

No confirmations yet on where the 787s (or extra A350s) are going but I would guess 787s will be with LX/OS while the A350 at LH??

But: Selling 6 x A380s back to Airbus

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... f209327753

Image
 
danipawa
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:10 pm

 
george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:39 am

george77300 wrote:
StarLux firms order for 17 x A350

5 x A350-900 delivery 2021-2022
12 x A350-1000 delivery 2022-2024

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3648659

Image


This is now firmed up.

Airbus Press Release: http://bit.ly/StarluxA350
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:52 pm

Please keep the thread on topic. This thread is for discussion on orders only. Speculation should occur in other more appropriate threads.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:47 pm

China have announced plans to buy a further 300 aircraft.

290 x A320 Family (both neo and ceo)
10 x A350-900 (Believed to be the top up for CA)

I’m unsure how many, if any, have already been logged in the backlog as unidentified, although as Airbus are entirely negative on the books this year (apart from A220), so they are all likely to be new orders unless some lingered over from 2018.

Source: https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... ation.html
 
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:18 pm

george77300 wrote:
I’m unsure how many, if any, have already been logged in the backlog as unidentified, although as Airbus are entirely negative on the books this year (apart from A220), so they are all likely to be new orders unless some lingered over from 2018.


When the Chinese President signed that 300 frame order at Boeing in 2017, some had been booked as UFOs going back to like 2014-2015. So it may be a similar case here: some new, some UFO identifications.,
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 pm

You never really know how this will translate into actual firm orders, but that's not an issue. Airbus took delivery of 135 A320s in 2018, if this continues at this rate or higher there will be more then enough firm orders that might or not be part of this deal in the coming years. We just have to continue to follow the monthly updates to see how many new orders are coming in.
 
musman9853
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:10 am

kinda expected with Winnie the Pooh's visit to france. but still a good order haul for airbus. sidenote, when do you guys think we'll see further rate increases for the a320? 7k orders almost. that's a staggering number
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WayexTDI
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:47 am

Momo1435 wrote:
Airbus took delivery of 135 A320s in 2018, if this continues at this rate or higher there will be more then enough firm orders that might or not be part of this deal in the coming years.

Who did Airbus take delivery of A320's from? For whatever reason, I was under the (maybe naive) impression that Airbus was manufacturing (and delivering) the A320 Family to airline customers; not buying them from another manufacturer...
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:48 am

musman9853 wrote:
kinda expected with Winnie the Pooh's visit to france. but still a good order haul for airbus. sidenote, when do you guys think we'll see further rate increases for the a320? 7k orders almost. that's a staggering number


Airbus is expected to hit rate 60 sometime this year on the A320 family. Rate 66 should be possible, if the supply line covers it.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:59 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Airbus took delivery of 135 A320s in 2018, if this continues at this rate or higher there will be more then enough firm orders that might or not be part of this deal in the coming years.

Who did Airbus take delivery of A320's from? For whatever reason, I was under the (maybe naive) impression that Airbus was manufacturing (and delivering) the A320 Family to airline customers; not buying them from another manufacturer...

I wrote Airbus instead of China.
 
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qf789
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:52 pm

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chiad
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:27 pm

qf789 wrote:


It doesn't sound like this deal is done quite yet.
Another note is that right now Bamboo Airways has less than 10 aircrafts in operation. With this "order" they will have more then 100 in its backlog, including 30 B787-9s and 20+ A321NEOs.
:scratchchin:
 
juliuswong
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:12 pm

chiad wrote:
qf789 wrote:


It doesn't sound like this deal is done quite yet.
Another note is that right now Bamboo Airways has less than 10 aircrafts in operation. With this "order" they will have more then 100 in its backlog, including 30 B787-9s and 20+ A321NEOs.
:scratchchin:

Actually they have 10 B787-9 on order (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 02949.html) and 50 A321neo with this new order. 24 of these 50 A321neo was booked last year.

They seems to be not sure which aircraft to buy,
currently playing around with A319/320/321 a bit before settling on A321.
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qf789
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:26 pm

Airbus announce 58 orders for March

Lufthansa 20 x A350-900
Starlux 5 x A350-900, 12 x A350-1000
Private 1 x A350-900
Undisclosed 20 x A320neo

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html
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Lewton
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:29 pm

The Emirates order is still not there...
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:51 pm

The Avianca A320neo family changes:

A319neo: 20 -> 0 = -20 fully cancelled
A320neo: 100 -> 92 = -8
A321neo: 17 -> 28 = +11

net total = -17 = total cancellations for Airbus in March.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:01 pm

Lewton wrote:
The Emirates order is still not there...


The EK A380 cancellations haven't hit the books either, so probably just finishing the paperwork.
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chiad
Posts: 1346
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:08 pm

scbriml wrote:
Lewton wrote:
The Emirates order is still not there...


The EK A380 cancellations haven't hit the books either, so probably just finishing the paperwork.


The spreadsheet says -31.
 
george77300
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:31 pm

chiad wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Lewton wrote:
The Emirates order is still not there...


The EK A380 cancellations haven't hit the books either, so probably just finishing the paperwork.


The spreadsheet says -31.


Not Emirates though.

-8 Qantas
-20 Amadeo
-3 Air Accord

Total -31.

There will be an additional -39 for Emirates. This should bring the final A380 cancellations of the year to -70.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19452
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2019 Orders

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:54 pm

chiad wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Lewton wrote:
The Emirates order is still not there...


The EK A380 cancellations haven't hit the books either, so probably just finishing the paperwork.


The spreadsheet says -31.


AFAIK, those are Air Acord (3), Amadeo (20) and QANTAS (8). Emirates numbers haven't yet changed.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
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