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SurfandSnow
Posts: 1514
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:47 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
In the past year AS has taken a major axe to its Trans-Con routes


It has? Most of the permanent cuts on your list were "mid-con" routes where flight times are about 2-4 hours - considerably shorter than ~6 hour transcontinental flights. I highly doubt AS California-based FFers miss the (short-lived) services to destinations like BNA, IND and OMA, unless they happen to have important clients, family and/or friends in those places. It also isn't surprising to see smaller East Coast markets and South Florida operating on a more seasonal basis. It's not like Californians enjoy visiting the East Coast in the winter or Miami in the summer unless they absolutely have to...

Midwestindy wrote:
Next Summer SFO will only have service to 6 markets east of the Mississippi:
Chicago (ORD), Orlando, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington (DCA/IAD/BWI), and New York (JFK/EWR)


All of the key East Coast markets covered, plus year round service to Disney World and by far the most important destination in the Midwest. As far as FLL in concerned, South Florida's beaches and cruises accessible nonstop from SFO during the peak winter/spring season (just like many other services to/from Florida) and an easy connection via LAX the rest of the time. What more could you want? Those are really the only places most Californian travelers care about...

Midwestindy wrote:
Obviously AS doesn't think it is vital, but from outside of SEA how important is it long-term for AS to serve large-mid-sized metros outside of the West Coast? (Ex: FLL, DTW, MSP, RDU, BNA, ATL, TPA, etc)


It isn't vital at all. UA didn't serve any of these places nonstop from its massive SFO hub until the rather recent tech boom and hub build up. I believe UA only added SFO-BNA, SFO-DTW, and SFO-TPA in the past few years. Folks flying between San Francisco and Nashville or Tampa are probably very accustomed to making a connection or stop en route.

As far as LAX goes, it seems service to/from the places you listed only works when the operator has considerable FFer bases at *both* ends of the route. It's not like AA and UA had much luck with LAX-MSP. AA and NK quickly failed on the LAX-TPA route. Given that the AS brand is quite unknown in places like Minneapolis and Tampa, I highly doubt AS would fare any better...

Midwestindy wrote:
Or is it a good long-term strategy for AS to double down on intra-west routes, and cut back on serving Transcontinental routes? Despite heavy encroachment by WN and DL


This is a great strategy. As I've said in several other posts, it seems AS and WN have started to reach some sort of truce. AS has cut routes like SAN-DAL, SJC-DAL, SJC-SNA, and a bunch of services between SAN and the heartland. WN has thrown in the towel in some rather surprising cases, like SFO-DAL, SFO-PDX and SFO-SNA. As for DL, they seem to be shifting their focus away from the West Coast and towards other places - like BOS and MIA.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:15 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
In the past year AS has taken a major axe to its Trans-Con routes


It has? Most of the permanent cuts on your list were "mid-con" routes where flight times are about 2-4 hours - considerably shorter than ~6 hour transcontinental flights. I highly doubt AS California-based FFers miss the (short-lived) services to destinations like BNA, IND and OMA, unless they happen to have important clients, family and/or friends in those places. It also isn't surprising to see smaller East Coast markets and South Florida operating on a more seasonal basis. It's not like Californians enjoy visiting the East Coast in the winter or Miami in the summer unless they absolutely have to...

Midwestindy wrote:
Next Summer SFO will only have service to 6 markets east of the Mississippi:
Chicago (ORD), Orlando, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington (DCA/IAD/BWI), and New York (JFK/EWR)


All of the key East Coast markets covered, plus year round service to Disney World and by far the most important destination in the Midwest. As far as FLL in concerned, South Florida's beaches and cruises accessible nonstop from SFO during the peak winter/spring season (just like many other services to/from Florida) and an easy connection via LAX the rest of the time. What more could you want? Those are really the only places most Californian travelers care about...

Midwestindy wrote:
Obviously AS doesn't think it is vital, but from outside of SEA how important is it long-term for AS to serve large-mid-sized metros outside of the West Coast? (Ex: FLL, DTW, MSP, RDU, BNA, ATL, TPA, etc)


It isn't vital at all. UA didn't serve any of these places nonstop from its massive SFO hub until the rather recent tech boom and hub build up. I believe UA only added SFO-BNA, SFO-DTW, and SFO-TPA in the past few years. Folks flying between San Francisco and Nashville or Tampa are probably very accustomed to making a connection or stop en route.

As far as LAX goes, it seems service to/from the places you listed only works when the operator has considerable FFer bases at *both* ends of the route. It's not like AA and UA had much luck with LAX-MSP. AA and NK quickly failed on the LAX-TPA route. Given that the AS brand is quite unknown in places like Minneapolis and Tampa, I highly doubt AS would fare any better...

Midwestindy wrote:
Or is it a good long-term strategy for AS to double down on intra-west routes, and cut back on serving Transcontinental routes? Despite heavy encroachment by WN and DL


This is a great strategy. As I've said in several other posts, it seems AS and WN have started to reach some sort of truce. AS has cut routes like SAN-DAL, SJC-DAL, SJC-SNA, and a bunch of services between SAN and the heartland. WN has thrown in the towel in some rather surprising cases, like SFO-DAL, SFO-PDX and SFO-SNA. As for DL, they seem to be shifting their focus away from the West Coast and towards other places - like BOS and MIA.


Perhaps not, with their huge build up at SEA, calling SJC a “focus city”, and some other recent p to p adds in the West. I think they’re also taking about building up LAS as a sort of hub.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5385
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:49 am

Midwestindy wrote:
In the past year AS has taken a major axe to its Trans-Con routes:
SFO:
Cuts:
ABQ-SFO
MSP-SFO
DEN-SFO
IND-SFO
BNA-SFO
MCI-SFO
RDU-SFO
Seasonal Adjustments:
BWI-SFO
PHL-SFO
FLL-SFO

SAN:
Cuts:
STL-SAN
MEX-SAN
ABQ-SAN
MSP-SAN
ELP-SAN
OMA-SAN
MCI-SAN
Seasonal Adjustments:
BWI-SAN

PDX
Cuts:
MKE-PDX
DTW-PDX
STL-PDX
ATL-PDX

LAX
Cuts:
LAX-PHL
LAX-MCO
LAX-HAV

I apologize if I made any mistakes there:

Next Summer SFO will only have service to 6 markets east of the Mississippi:
Chicago (ORD), Orlando, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington (DCA/IAD/BWI), and New York (JFK/EWR)
4 for SAN:
Orlando, Washington (BWI), New York (EWR), and Boston

Obviously AS doesn't think it is vital, but from outside of SEA how important is it long-term for AS to serve large-mid-sized metros outside of the West Coast? (Ex: FLL, DTW, MSP, RDU, BNA, ATL, TPA, e.t.c)

Or is it a good long-term strategy for AS to double down on intra-west routes, and cut back on serving Transcontinental routes? Despite heavy encroachment by WN and DL

I hate to make it even worse but since 2018, SAN has also lost service to MMH (station closed completely) and DAL.

bb
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:30 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
I highly doubt AS California-based FFers miss the (short-lived) services to destinations like BNA, IND and OMA, unless they happen to have important clients, family and/or friends in those places. It also isn't surprising to see smaller East Coast markets and South Florida operating on a more seasonal basis. It's not like Californians enjoy visiting the East Coast in the winter or Miami in the summer unless they absolutely have to...)


You could say the same about dozens of markets that AS currently serves, who is trying to go to Alaska in the middle of winter? Who is trying to go to Edmonton or Calgary in winter? e.t.c?

While some places might not have the leisure appeal of PVR or SJD, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be served. Using BNA and IND as an example, demand from both cities to the Bay Area has jumped by nearly 50% in the past two years, due to booms in the respective tech economies. Now both are in the Top 25-30 largest destinations from the Bay Area.

Midwestindy wrote:
All of the key East Coast markets covered, plus year round service to Disney World and by far the most important destination in the Midwest. As far as FLL in concerned, South Florida's beaches and cruises accessible nonstop from SFO during the peak winter/spring season (just like many other services to/from Florida) and an easy connection via LAX the rest of the time. What more could you want? Those are really the only places most Californian travelers care about...


Says who? Again it seems you are very fixated on the leisure component, but AS is not solely a leisure airline, and there are plenty of other important business destinations that California travelers need to travel to

Midwestindy wrote:
It isn't vital at all. UA didn't serve any of these places nonstop from its massive SFO hub until the rather recent tech boom and hub build up. I believe UA only added SFO-BNA, SFO-DTW, and SFO-TPA in the past few years. Folks flying between San Francisco and Nashville or Tampa are probably very accustomed to making a connection or stop en route.


They added those routes due to tremendous growth in demand from routes outside the West Coast, something that AS hasn't caught onto
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
jbpdx
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:45 pm

Not sure if this has been posted already but Honolulu TV morning news just reported Alaska will drop SFO-KOA and SMF-KOA.
^
 
jplatts
Posts: 3545
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:37 pm

There are a few routes such as SEA-DSM, SEA-XNA, SEA-MSN, and SEA-TUL that could be added by AS on E-175 regional jets, and DSM, XNA, MSN, and TUL are all closer to SEA than DAL is.

Here are the distances of SEA-DSM/XNA/MSN/TUL/DAL:
SEA-DSM 1464 mi
SEA-TUL 1558 mi
SEA-XNA 1625 mi
SEA-MSN 1622 mi
SEA-DAL 1670 mi (AS currently operates E-175 regional jets to DAL from SEA)

Here are the PDEW's for SEA-DSM/XNA/MSN/TUL in Q3 2018:
SEA-DSM 65
SEA-XNA 29
SEA-MSN 66
SEA-TUL 64

There is probably enough demand for daily nonstop service to SEA from DSM, MSN, and TUL on E-175 regional jets as there are enough passengers traveling to SEA from DSM, MSN, and TUL each day to fill an E-175 regional jet.

I am unsure if there is enough demand for AS to operate SEA-XNA nonstop service as the PDEW is currently much lower on SEA-XNA than on SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL, but AS might be able to make SEA-XNA nonstop service work if AS can stimulate enough additional demand on SEA-XNA. There are some business ties between Seattle and Northwest Arkansas to support possible nonstop service to XNA from SEA on E-175 regional jets such as the Walmart-Starbucks business relationship, the Walmart-Jones Soda business relationship, and the Walmart-Nintendo business relationship.
 
tphuang
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:24 pm

jbpdx wrote:
Not sure if this has been posted already but Honolulu TV morning news just reported Alaska will drop SFO-KOA and SMF-KOA.

Didn't they just launch smf koa?
 
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msp747
Posts: 479
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:09 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
You could say the same about dozens of markets that AS currently serves, who is trying to go to Alaska in the middle of winter? Who is trying to go to Edmonton or Calgary in winter? e.t.c?

Using Alaska as your example doesn't work. Yes, people in California might not want to go to Alaska in January, but the people in Alaska sure want to go to those places AS serves. Most airlines have a token presence up there in the off-season, so AS is king. Anchorage isn't some outpost, it's a decent sized city and the hub for travel in Alaska. And since flying is the only way to really get up there, you have a captive audience.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:50 pm

msp747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
You could say the same about dozens of markets that AS currently serves, who is trying to go to Alaska in the middle of winter? Who is trying to go to Edmonton or Calgary in winter? e.t.c?

Using Alaska as your example doesn't work. Yes, people in California might not want to go to Alaska in January, but the people in Alaska sure want to go to those places AS serves. Most airlines have a token presence up there in the off-season, so AS is king. Anchorage isn't some outpost, it's a decent sized city and the hub for travel in Alaska. And since flying is the only way to really get up there, you have a captive audience.


Since the merger folks have kind of forgotten about how important Alaska Airlines is to Alaska and how important Alaska is to Alaska Airlines. There’s demand year round from Alaska to the Lower 48. There’s a surprising amount of people from Alaska traveling everyday for medical treatment in Seattle. A considerable amount of people within Alaska need to travel by air to larger cities for health care or other services.

To a lesser extent they serve the same purpose in the Northwest. While much more populated than Alaska it is still relatively isolated and sparsely populated and car travel can be rather lengthy. All cities in the Northwest are growing. Boise is expected to hit 1mil people in 10-20 years while Seattle and Portland also grow. All these places are rather geographically isolated so air travel will remain important. So being the prominent airline in the Northwest is not a hinderance as people love to suggest.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:39 pm

msp747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
You could say the same about dozens of markets that AS currently serves, who is trying to go to Alaska in the middle of winter? Who is trying to go to Edmonton or Calgary in winter? e.t.c?

Using Alaska as your example doesn't work. Yes, people in California might not want to go to Alaska in January, but the people in Alaska sure want to go to those places AS serves. Most airlines have a token presence up there in the off-season, so AS is king. Anchorage isn't some outpost, it's a decent sized city and the hub for travel in Alaska. And since flying is the only way to really get up there, you have a captive audience.


The point I was responding to was this:
"It's not like Californians enjoy visiting the East Coast in the winter or Miami in the summer unless they absolutely have to.."
"I highly doubt AS California-based FFers miss the (short-lived) services to destinations like BNA, IND and OMA, unless they happen to have important clients, family and/or friends in those places."

Which was an odd argument in the first place since VFR and business travel makes up the vast majority of air travel in the US, outside of the holidays and summer.

But I believe your response kind of proves my point. I wasn't saying whether ANC, YYC, YEG, e.t.c. were important cities, I was saying that just because Californians aren't trying to vacation in those places during the winter, doesn't mean AS shouldn't serve those destinations. Same thing with serving the Eastern US during the winter, doesn't mean there isn't demand to be had from people from the East trying to get to California and same goes for Alaskan travelers going to California.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:40 pm

Does anyone know how happy AS has been with the results of SEA-CMH? Load Factors have been north of 90% for a few months, including a stunning 97% in (I believe) July.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:23 am

DeltaRules wrote:
Does anyone know how happy AS has been with the results of SEA-CMH? Load Factors have been north of 90% for a few months, including a stunning 97% in (I believe) July.


Maybe AS will add another daily flight on the SEA-CMH route. I'm a little surprised they haven't tried SEA-CLE.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:47 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
Does anyone know how happy AS has been with the results of SEA-CMH? Load Factors have been north of 90% for a few months, including a stunning 97% in (I believe) July.


Maybe AS will add another daily flight on the SEA-CMH route. I'm a little surprised they haven't tried SEA-CLE.


Average Air Fare numbers for Q2 come out in a couple weeks, which should paint a picture for how it is doing yield wise. I would expect them to upguage from the A320 before a 2nd daily flight happens
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5385
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:06 pm

jbpdx wrote:
Not sure if this has been posted already but Honolulu TV morning news just reported Alaska will drop SFO-KOA and SMF-KOA.

Nice catch, jb'.

It looks like the SMF and SFO flights to KOA are essentially a shared a/c with SF-KOA op'ing 4x weekly and SMF the other 3 days; both routes appear to end at the same time as well, ~ March 18. That seems to coincide with AS's spring schedule release date, 3/19. As is kind of an 'in' thing these days, can this be blamed on the MAX groundings? I doubt it. And I don't see either KOA-route returning in the summer; it's a bit early to see if they come back next fall or winter...

But there are quite a few new routes around the network starting on that date next Spring but as far as I can see right now, they are mostly EMJs.

It looks like only a matter of time before WN might begin SMF-KOA -- it will be interesting to see if they do and how it works for them...

Along with the xld SJC-JFK & LA-PHL routes, and the now-seasonal routes such as BWI & RDU, it sure looks like AS is cleaning house while 'collecting' some mainline a/c for use elsewhere. Already spoken for or some more new stuff coming? (Or, again, covering for lack of new MAXs coming in-house?)

bb
 
jplatts
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:46 pm

SANFan wrote:
It looks like only a matter of time before WN might begin SMF-KOA -- it will be interesting to see if they do and how it works for them...


One big difference between Sacramento vs. the San Francisco Bay Area or Greater Los Angeles is that none of the US3 carriers have a hub or focus city at SMF whereas UA has hubs at both SFO and LAX, AS has hubs at both SFO and LAX, AA has a hub at LAX, and DL has a hub at LAX.

There are many travelers in the Sacramento market who would choose WN over HA or connecting options on US3 carriers if WN adds SMF-KOA nonstop service.

SANFan wrote:
Along with the xld SJC-JFK & LA-PHL routes, and the now-seasonal routes such as BWI & RDU, it sure looks like AS is cleaning house while 'collecting' some mainline a/c for use elsewhere. Already spoken for or some more new stuff coming? (Or, again, covering for lack of new MAXs coming in-house?)


AS is currently scheduled to take delivery of some A320neo planes from an order that it inherited through the AS-VX merger next year.
 
jplatts
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:51 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Maybe AS will add another daily flight on the SEA-CMH route. I'm a little surprised they haven't tried SEA-CLE.


While AS doesn't currently serve CLE, AS adding SEA-CLE nonstop service still might happen as the lack of nonstop service to CLE from SEA on a non-ULCC is one of the biggest holes in both markets.
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2028
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:44 pm

Does anyone know when the last A321NEO and the first A320NEO are expected to arrive?
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 404
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:22 pm

It looks like they’re “moving” Hawaii capacity. Sorry if this is someplace else.

KOA-SAN/SJC goes daily

https://apple.news/A7hgoF2NVSkK0xlVp9Mm4FQ
 
jbwhite99
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:21 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:47 am

SANFan wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
In the past year AS has taken a major axe to its Trans-Con routes:
SFO:
Cuts:
ABQ-SFO
MSP-SFO
DEN-SFO
IND-SFO
BNA-SFO
MCI-SFO
RDU-SFO
Seasonal Adjustments:
BWI-SFO
PHL-SFO
FLL-SFO

SAN:
Cuts:
STL-SAN
MEX-SAN
ABQ-SAN
MSP-SAN
ELP-SAN
OMA-SAN
MCI-SAN
Seasonal Adjustments:
BWI-SAN

PDX
Cuts:
MKE-PDX
DTW-PDX
STL-PDX
ATL-PDX

LAX
Cuts:
LAX-PHL
LAX-MCO
LAX-HAV

I apologize if I made any mistakes there:

Next Summer SFO will only have service to 6 markets east of the Mississippi:
Chicago (ORD), Orlando, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington (DCA/IAD/BWI), and New York (JFK/EWR)
4 for SAN:
Orlando, Washington (BWI), New York (EWR), and Boston

Obviously AS doesn't think it is vital, but from outside of SEA how important is it long-term for AS to serve large-mid-sized metros outside of the West Coast? (Ex: FLL, DTW, MSP, RDU, BNA, ATL, TPA, e.t.c)

Or is it a good long-term strategy for AS to double down on intra-west routes, and cut back on serving Transcontinental routes? Despite heavy encroachment by WN and DL

I hate to make it even worse but since 2018, SAN has also lost service to MMH (station closed completely) and DAL.

bb


It is disappointing to see AS cut their service to RDU. RDU was just named as a "large" airport, and has two airlines flying non-stop to each big city: DL/AA to LAX, AS/UA to SFO, and AS/DL to SEA. If you look at destinations of choice, we have like 3 flights per week to SAN (Frontier) and 1 per week between the Research Triangle and Silicon Valley (WN to SJC, only on Sundays). The top unserved destination from RDU is now PDX. If AS really wanted to make a dent here (DL has 30% of the market) is to offer service to SJC or PDX. The biggest challenge we have here is the lack of gates - despite doubling the size of the airport 10 years ago, it is full (they are building 4 more gates in the low cost terminal for Frontier/Allegiant/Spirit).

So AS's plans to scale back in BNA and RDU makes no sense to me, unless the load factors were lacking.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:25 am

LAXBUR wrote:
It looks like they’re “moving” Hawaii capacity.
KOA-SAN/SJC goes daily
https://apple.news/A7hgoF2NVSkK0xlVp9Mm4FQ

SAN-KOA has been seasonally daily for the last 2 summers (and over the December Holiday periods) so this is none-news. The daily service to KOA (as well as LIH) in 2020 begin about May 22. (At least this is what the AS timetables currently show.)

What I'm curious to see is if the routes remain daily AFTER the summer peak travel season is over -- especially in light of WN maybe getting around to adding SAN-HI service...

jbwhite99 wrote:
It is disappointing to see AS cut their service to RDU. RDU was just named as a "large" airport, and has two airlines flying non-stop to each big city: DL/AA to LAX, AS/UA to SFO, and AS/DL to SEA. If you look at destinations of choice, we have like 3 flights per week to SAN (Frontier) and 1 per week between the Research Triangle and Silicon Valley (WN to SJC, only on Sundays).

Yet RDU-SAN is under-served and I would still love to see AS fly it daily and year-round. (If not AS, I'm confident either WN or maybe DL will do so sooner rather than later.) Tri-weekly service by Frontier is definitely not providing the level of service needed by many bio-tech corporate travelers that frequent this market. Let's work on getting SAN served adequately!

bb
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:41 pm

jbwhite99 wrote:


So AS's plans to scale back in BNA and RDU makes no sense to me, unless the load factors were lacking.


While it may be personally disappointing I can assure you any airline cuts a route because it isn’t financially viable. And as said many times before load factors are always the best indication of profitability. I still get confused when folks on here think these things are done arbitrarily or even done with malicious intent.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:48 pm

SANFan wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
It looks like they’re “moving” Hawaii capacity.
KOA-SAN/SJC goes daily
https://apple.news/A7hgoF2NVSkK0xlVp9Mm4FQ

SAN-KOA has been seasonally daily for the last 2 summers (and over the December Holiday periods) so this is none-news. The daily service to KOA (as well as LIH) in 2020 begin about May 22. (At least this is what the AS timetables currently show.)

What I'm curious to see is if the routes remain daily AFTER the summer peak travel season is over -- especially in light of WN maybe getting around to adding SAN-HI service...



bb


It is news because it is a news article related to Alaska’s Hawaii service changes and an Alaska rep responded. Now whether this is a full time schedule change or bad attempt at spin is not clear. But sharing an article with direct quotes is more helpful than a bunch of people with no actual information making a bunch of unverified claims and presenting them as fact.
 
iflykpdx
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:55 pm

jbwhite99 wrote:
1 per week between the Research Triangle and Silicon Valley (WN to SJC, only on Sundays)


That's been cancelled. I think it flew for about a month. Shame SJC can't seem to keep any service to NC.
Airport Management - UND
 
AirFiero
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:34 pm

iflykpdx wrote:
jbwhite99 wrote:
1 per week between the Research Triangle and Silicon Valley (WN to SJC, only on Sundays)


That's been cancelled. I think it flew for about a month. Shame SJC can't seem to keep any service to NC.


Was it a load factor cancellation or a Max cancellation?
 
Dash8Driver16
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:42 pm

ALaska has all the 321 but the 320 order has been indefinitely delayed.
 
iflykpdx
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:46 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Was it a load factor cancellation or a Max cancellation?


Nothing was ever announced by WN. It just stopped flying and isn't bookable and no longer appears on the WN site route map under the nonstops list. Could have been a MAX cancellation but only WN knows for sure. Maybe we'll see it return at some point since they never "officially" cancelled it. It was launched as summer seasonal, so I guess we'll see what happens in 2020.
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:50 pm

The biggest news, IMHO, is the addition of 2X daily SFOPHX service. AS has long stated that to be relevant in CA, they needed to serve the top 10 markets from their focus cities. Recently, they've been saying "Top 20" instead, and that implies that long term, you'll see LAXPHX and SANPHX there as well. Considering that the AA partnership is all but ending and that PHX is among the top 5 destinations for Mileage Plan use, it makes perfect sense that AS will want to expand service to/from PHX somewhat.
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AirFiero
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:14 pm

iflykpdx wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Was it a load factor cancellation or a Max cancellation?


Nothing was ever announced by WN. It just stopped flying and isn't bookable and no longer appears on the WN site route map under the nonstops list. Could have been a MAX cancellation but only WN knows for sure. Maybe we'll see it return at some point since they never "officially" cancelled it. It was launched as summer seasonal, so I guess we'll see what happens in 2020.


The other 1x/weekly flights were suspended (MSY, ABQ), and the daily MCO was as well. All at the same time, if I’m not mistaken. So it’s reasonable to assume RDU was as well.
 
UALifer
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:37 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
The biggest news, IMHO, is the addition of 2X daily SFOPHX service. AS has long stated that to be relevant in CA, they needed to serve the top 10 markets from their focus cities. Recently, they've been saying "Top 20" instead, and that implies that long term, you'll see LAXPHX and SANPHX there as well. Considering that the AA partnership is all but ending and that PHX is among the top 5 destinations for Mileage Plan use, it makes perfect sense that AS will want to expand service to/from PHX somewhat.


Yet, not too long ago, they cut SFO-DEN?
 
iflykpdx
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:39 pm

AirFiero wrote:
iflykpdx wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Was it a load factor cancellation or a Max cancellation?


Nothing was ever announced by WN. It just stopped flying and isn't bookable and no longer appears on the WN site route map under the nonstops list. Could have been a MAX cancellation but only WN knows for sure. Maybe we'll see it return at some point since they never "officially" cancelled it. It was launched as summer seasonal, so I guess we'll see what happens in 2020.


The other 1x/weekly flights were suspended (MSY, ABQ), and the daily MCO was as well. All at the same time, if I’m not mistaken. So it’s reasonable to assume RDU was as well.


Both RDU and MSY ended on 8/4 (MCO on 7/5), but according to Google they'll be flying SJC-MSY and SJC-MCO again tomorrow. They flew MCO-SJC starting 10/2. ABQ has been operated daily for awhile.
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AirFiero
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:47 pm

iflykpdx wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
iflykpdx wrote:

Nothing was ever announced by WN. It just stopped flying and isn't bookable and no longer appears on the WN site route map under the nonstops list. Could have been a MAX cancellation but only WN knows for sure. Maybe we'll see it return at some point since they never "officially" cancelled it. It was launched as summer seasonal, so I guess we'll see what happens in 2020.


The other 1x/weekly flights were suspended (MSY, ABQ), and the daily MCO was as well. All at the same time, if I’m not mistaken. So it’s reasonable to assume RDU was as well.


Both RDU and MSY ended on 8/4 (MCO on 7/5), but according to Google they'll be flying SJC-MSY and SJC-MCO again tomorrow. They flew MCO-SJC starting 10/2. ABQ has been operated daily for awhile.


Ok, so MSY and MCO are both running 1x/weekly? If I recall, ABQ started as 1x/weekly then went to daily? I thought they suspended ABQ with the Max thing? Sigh, I can’t keep up!
 
iflykpdx
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:50 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Ok, so MSY and MCO are both running 1x/weekly? If I recall, ABQ started as 1x/weekly then went to daily? I thought they suspended ABQ with the Max thing? Sigh, I can’t keep up!


Don't know what their future schedule is. I believe MCO ends after 1/6 (not sure if permanently or until the MAX issue is over). MSY is probably seasonally suspended again at some point.
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:44 am

UALifer wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
The biggest news, IMHO, is the addition of 2X daily SFOPHX service. AS has long stated that to be relevant in CA, they needed to serve the top 10 markets from their focus cities. Recently, they've been saying "Top 20" instead, and that implies that long term, you'll see LAXPHX and SANPHX there as well. Considering that the AA partnership is all but ending and that PHX is among the top 5 destinations for Mileage Plan use, it makes perfect sense that AS will want to expand service to/from PHX somewhat.


Yet, not too long ago, they cut SFO-DEN?


I'd expect to see that back before long as well.
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:59 am

EA CO AS wrote:
The biggest news, IMHO, is the addition of 2X daily SFOPHX service. AS has long stated that to be relevant in CA, they needed to serve the top 10 markets from their focus cities. Recently, they've been saying "Top 20" instead, and that implies that long term, you'll see LAXPHX and SANPHX there as well. Considering that the AA partnership is all but ending and that PHX is among the top 5 destinations for Mileage Plan use, it makes perfect sense that AS will want to expand service to/from PHX somewhat.

I just looked at some stats for SAN and saw that PHX is right around the 4th largest market out of SDIA. I would hope that means we will see AS in the market sooner rather than later. It's one important market that remains untouched by AAG.

Perhaps seeing SFO-PHX started is an optimistic sign, as you imply EA', regarding similar service from another of their CA focus operations!

bb
 
AirFiero
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:39 pm

Does anyone know who (which airline) is pushing the AA-AS “breakup”, and why?
 
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:02 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Does anyone know who (which airline) is pushing the AA-AS “breakup”, and why?


It’s mutual.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
AirFiero
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:40 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Does anyone know who (which airline) is pushing the AA-AS “breakup”, and why?


It’s mutual.


Any insights why? I would think it benefits at least one of the airlines, if not both.
 
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:27 pm

The relationship is several decades old and as both airlines have evolved, along with the industry as a whole, the nature of the partnership has evolved as well. This is just the next mutual step in that evolution.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:19 pm

I've got an off-the-wall question for someone in the know about AS's flight nomenclature.

I've just noticed that starting on or about Jan 1, there are some noticeable changes to the usually reliable, easy-to-follow and instructive flight numbering system. (Except for HI flights occasionally carrying flight numbers like 239 and 196!) I see that both Airbus and Boeing flights are being named using 3 and 4 digit flight numbers; e.g., SAN-BOS is numbered 1048 but is a Boeing, while I'm seeing some 'Bus flights carrying 3-digit numbers. So far, this seems to be primarily involving transcons but I'm not sure about the extent of the changes yet; it appears this is the first of some sort of change to AS's flight nomenclature system? Are flight numbers going to be assigned route-specifically rather than aircraft-specific? Or maybe new interior aircraft will have different numbers than the current (old) versions? Or?

This is not exactly an earth-shattering revelation or of interest to anyone besides me but I'm curious since turn skeds and flight numbers are one of my things.

Anyone got any insight into this? I'd love to know what's going on and what the end-game is.

bb
 
RWRCAS
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Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:54 pm

The 3 digit fight numbers for Boeing equipment and four digit flight numbers for Airbus equipment was because, among other things, the flight control function was still separate with Boeing Dispatchers and Airbus Dispatchers with different tools and procedures. January 1st Flight Control will be fully integrated with all Dispatchers working all aircraft types with the same tools and procedures, so the need for separate flight numbers no longer exists.
 
stapleton
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AS to add mainline BIL/BZN/MSO - SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:28 pm

Alaska will begin utilizing A319/320 aircraft into BIL, BZN and MSO beginning May 21. BZN and MSO will be two of the four daily flights in each market and BIL will be one of the two daily flights. Montana continues to see strong growth.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: AS to add mainline BIL/BZN/MSO - SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:34 pm

Still can't believe AS doesn't serve JAC, the second largest airport gateway to Yellowstone/Grand Teton besides BZN.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: AS to add mainline BIL/BZN/MSO - SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:16 pm

I had to look these up.

Apparently they are in the center part of the country by Canada.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=Bil,Bzn,Mso,SFO&DU=mi
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
Aliqiout
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Re: AS to add mainline BIL/BZN/MSO - SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:17 pm

Looks like PDX-ABQ is going mainline too.
 
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Re: AS to add mainline BIL/BZN/MSO - SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:29 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
Still can't believe AS doesn't serve JAC, the second largest airport gateway to Yellowstone/Grand Teton besides BZN.


It is surprising that they don't, even seasonally, although even DL doesn't serve SEA-JAC except weekly.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: AS to add mainline BIL/BZN/MSO - SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:32 pm

It's about time...and I'm really surprised that FCA didn't make the mainline list, especially in summer. Not that far from MSO I suppose but those flights are always packed.
 
Q
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Re: AS to add mainline BIL/BZN/MSO - SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:49 pm

FCA is incorrect. Airport code should read GPI.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacier_P ... al_Airport

Q
 
sxf24
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Re: AS to add mainline BIL/BZN/MSO - SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:56 pm

Q wrote:
FCA is incorrect. Airport code should read GPI.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacier_P ... al_Airport

Q


IATA code used by airlines is FCA.
 
stapleton
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Re: AS to add mainline BIL/BZN/MSO - SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:57 pm

Q wrote:
FCA is incorrect. Airport code should read GPI.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacier_P ... al_Airport

Q

FCA is the IATA code so for the purposes of airline reservation systems and buying tickets FCA is correct. For National Weather Service, FAA etc, GPI is correct. When they changed the code to GPI over a decade ago, it wasn’t realized that the IATA code GPI was already used. Incidentally FCA stands for Flathead County Airport, GPI stands for Glacier Park Int’l. Both are the same airport.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: AS to add mainline BIL/BZN/MSO - SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:10 pm

FAT-SEA is also gaining a mainline frequency.
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