KICT
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Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:47 am

The plan was to retire the remaining three double bogie A320s by the end of 2018. According to FlightAware, none of them have flown for months.

Does anyone know the status of VT-ESE, ESF, & ESL? Will they be flown out of India for scrap? I imagine not and they will simply be plucked for spares slowly, but it would be nice to get a photo of one before it's too late.



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aviationaware
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:17 am

Always pains me to see exotics get scrapped, but I guess they had no resale value at all - having such a heavy modification and having been in service with Air India in combination would sound the death knell on any aircraft.
 
sibibom
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:45 am

They been flying since 1990s, there isn't much life left in them anyways. RIP
 
Arion640
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:51 am

Which airports did they mainly serve?
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LAX772LR
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:51 am

I always loved the sight of these aircraft, and I really wish we could (but know the impossibility of) see them with sharklets... they'd look amazing! :hearts:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:00 am

-ESL is still flying according to FR24.
-ESE was retired in June 2018
-ESF was retired October 2017

Source: http://www.planespotters.net
Last edited by ikolkyo on Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
Philippine747
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:01 am

Arion640 wrote:
Which airports did they mainly serve?


They mostly flew domestic routes. Back in the day, Indian airport infrastructure especially at the smaller airports, wasn't up to the quality they have today. The double bogies were there so that the aircraft's weight could be distributed in such a way that the pavement could handle it.
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tpowaleny
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:53 am

Pardon my ignorance but what is a double bogie A320?
 
aviationaware
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:01 am

tpowaleny wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a double bogie A320?


Check the main landing gear on the photos above Air India had a few A320s that didn't have single axle in the main landing gear as all of the others do, but two axles as do widebodies.
 
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Flyingdevil737
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:01 am

tpowaleny wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a double bogie A320?


An A320-200 built with 8 mainwheels over 4 to spread the weight more evenly on sub-standard ground.

They were used because India had some airports where the taxiways and runways were not as well built, but I believe hey have been upgraded now.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the very first Fokker airplane built in the world. The Dutch call it the mother Fokker.
 
avier
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:02 am

tpowaleny wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a double bogie A320?


Image
 
Scorpio
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:02 am

tpowaleny wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a double bogie A320?


Look at the main landing gear on these planes, and compare it to any other A320. You can't miss it.
 
tpowaleny
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:05 am

Scorpio wrote:
tpowaleny wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a double bogie A320?


Look at the main landing gear on these planes, and compare it to any other A320. You can't miss it.


Thank you for the explanation! Anyone know how many were produced like this?
 
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:07 am

tpowaleny wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
tpowaleny wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a double bogie A320?


Look at the main landing gear on these planes, and compare it to any other A320. You can't miss it.


Thank you for the explanation! Anyone know how many were produced like this?


31 I believe. All for Indian Airlines, which later merged with Air India.
 
TC957
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:50 am

I believe Airbus offered this as an option for some time but no other airlines took the 4-wheel bogie up.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:23 am

avier wrote:
tpowaleny wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a double bogie A320?


Image

Air India also did this with some B727's so they could land on unimproved runways. Years ago I worked for a company that Bought them for spare parts.
The Gear Legs could be converted for the Highest GWT B727's with the Dual Wheels which were already Freighters
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:34 pm

AI should have retired them long back, but several bad fleet decisions forced them to keep flying these antiques. I think AI mainline didn't take a single NB delivery between 2007-2015?? They were taking unwanted WBs and had no money for NBs. They were the saviors during AI's tough financial times, though riddled with APU issues.

They now have 24NEOs(no GTFs) 5xSLs along with A319s and A321s. AI no longer buys NBs, just dry lease+PBTH.

AI doesn't send their retired frames to a scrapyard, they will be left to the elements at some Indian airport with full livery on, eye candy for bloggers looking for dilapidated AI frames.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:57 pm

Image[/quote]
Air India also did this with some B727's so they could land on unimproved runways. Years ago I worked for a company that Bought them for spare parts.
The Gear Legs could be converted for the Highest GWT B727's with the Dual Wheels which were already Freighters[/quote]
Any pics?
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Kno
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:58 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
avier wrote:
tpowaleny wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a double bogie A320?


Image

Air India also did this with some B727's so they could land on unimproved runways. Years ago I worked for a company that Bought them for spare parts.
The Gear Legs could be converted for the Highest GWT B727's with the Dual Wheels which were already Freighters


Oh I’d love to see a pic of that
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:36 pm

Buyantukhaa wrote:
Air India also did this with some B727's so they could land on unimproved runways. Years ago I worked for a company that Bought them for spare parts.
The Gear Legs could be converted for the Highest GWT B727's with the Dual Wheels which were already Freighters

Any pics?[/quote]

Yes, a double bogie 727 is news to me. I've never heard of such a thing existing before. Can you show photographs?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Gr8Circle
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:51 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Buyantukhaa wrote:
Air India also did this with some B727's so they could land on unimproved runways. Years ago I worked for a company that Bought them for spare parts.
The Gear Legs could be converted for the Highest GWT B727's with the Dual Wheels which were already Freighters

Any pics?


I seriously doubt if AI ever had 727s...
 
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Veigar
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:54 pm

Double bogie 727 also seems extremely alarming to me. If someone's got photos, please drop it here for us.
 
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sergegva
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:42 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
-ESL is still flying according to FR24.
-ESE was retired in June 2018
-ESF was retired October 2017

Source: http://www.planespotters.net


The last of them (VT-ESL) is not only flying, but also with a serious schedule! 6 segments are planned for tomorrow, according to FR24. Not bad!
BTW, it's the last "old" A320 in service for Air India. All 9 remaining ceo are less than 10 years old.
Last edited by sergegva on Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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sturmovik
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:44 pm

I've flown as pax on almost all of the double bogey birds, except the one that crashed in BLR. As crappy as AI hard product can be, it always made me happy to see one of these birds waiting at the gate for me. As an aside, I think the NEO would look even more like a cool little widebody mini-me if it had the double bogeys - imagine!
'What's it doing now?'
 
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LX015
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:02 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
avier wrote:
tpowaleny wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a double bogie A320?


Image

Air India also did this with some B727's so they could land on unimproved runways. Years ago I worked for a company that Bought them for spare parts.
The Gear Legs could be converted for the Highest GWT B727's with the Dual Wheels which were already Freighters


You’re saying there were double bogie 727s? If so, I gotta see a pic to believe it.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:17 pm

Looking at planespotters, they are not retired, just in storage. AI known to hoard old planes forever, some may even get reactivated in future.

1968 built 707-337 LN# 736, VT-DXT is still active with Indian Air Force as K2899, AI Engineering still maintains the frame, had a landing gear overhaul last year.
 
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:46 pm

Philippine747 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Which airports did they mainly serve?


They mostly flew domestic routes. Back in the day, Indian airport infrastructure especially at the smaller airports, wasn't up to the quality they have today. The double bogies were there so that the aircraft's weight could be distributed in such a way that the pavement could handle it.

Not only domestic.
I clearly remember 1st time I saw it was in BKK Don Muang back in 2004.
No doubts about date/location because I didn't even know this existed.
 
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:57 pm

sturmovik wrote:
As crappy as AI hard product can be, it always made me happy to see one of these birds waiting at the gate for me.


I have flown multiple times on AI and IC A320 family aircraft on domestic India routes in the past decade or so...…..always found their aircrafts well maintained and clean and a pleasure to fly on...….the inflight service was always excellent, with a hot snack on even short 60 - 90 minute flights....
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:32 am

aviationaware wrote:
tpowaleny wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a double bogie A320?


Check the main landing gear on the photos above Air India had a few A320s that didn't have single axle in the main landing gear as all of the others do, but two axles as do widebodies.


Not only widebodies...take a look at history of narrowbodies...especially 757 of which many are flying: 707, DC-8, CV-880, CV-990, 757, various Soviet-era planes, etc.
AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR BY B6 CO CP(2) DG DL EA EI EN FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(1) OZ(2) PA PI PT QF QQ RM RO RV(1) RV(2) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(2) ZZ 9K
 
KICT
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:34 am

I guess their original plans changed?
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -by-ye2018
People are saying. Believe me.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:03 am

KICT wrote:
I guess their original plans changed?
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -by-ye2018


You mean it missed the YE18 deadline by one frame, VT-ESL? I would say that is a remarkable achievement.

Keep in mind in 2018 AI took 3x77W worth $730 Million and two worth $580 Million are at AFW, a $580 debt without revenue.

During the six-month botched sale process, all credit lines were cut to AI, couldn't to pay bills, delayed NEO leases. Also, there was one month delay with LEAP engine available, not significant. Net I think it took only 9 NEOs on dry lease during 2018.

With AI there is always a long story to even a simple question.
 
KICT
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:22 am

Why are there two AI 77W at AFW?
People are saying. Believe me.
 
AngMoh
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:30 am

ojjunior wrote:
Philippine747 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Which airports did they mainly serve?


They mostly flew domestic routes. Back in the day, Indian airport infrastructure especially at the smaller airports, wasn't up to the quality they have today. The double bogies were there so that the aircraft's weight could be distributed in such a way that the pavement could handle it.

Not only domestic.
I clearly remember 1st time I saw it was in BKK Don Muang back in 2004.
No doubts about date/location because I didn't even know this existed.


I have flown them SIN-BLR. First time around 2000 and the last time in 2005. Till around 2003 IC was the only option between these two cities. The first time I flew to BLR in around 1998 there was no direct connection and I flew SIN-MAA-BLR. When IC was merged with AI, the route was a short time AI A310 (not 100% sure) and after that Air India Express. If I remember correctly, the routing was CCU-SIN-BLR-SIN-CCU for the IC flight.
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JOYA380B747
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:04 am

KICT wrote:
Why are there two AI 77W at AFW?


Quite possibly the two 77Ws back in US for Air India One refit.
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VTCIE
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:18 am

It baffles me why three 747s (ESN, O and P) were registered with the A320 registration scheme (VT-ES*).
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:45 am

sturmovik wrote:
I've flown as pax on almost all of the double bogey birds, except the one that crashed in BLR. As crappy as AI hard product can be, it always made me happy to see one of these birds waiting at the gate for me. As an aside, I think the NEO would look even more like a cool little widebody mini-me if it had the double bogeys - imagine!

The older birds with the double bogies were refurbished with all new seats during their D-check in 2010 time frame. The interior layout was also changed to single class 168Y at this time. Pretty decent interiors. The only problems with the old birds was frequent problems with AC packs.

strfyr51 wrote:
Air India also did this with some B727's so they could land on unimproved runways. Years ago I worked for a company that Bought them for spare parts.
The Gear Legs could be converted for the Highest GWT B727's with the Dual Wheels which were already Freighters


Air India and Indian Airlines have NEVER operated the B727's. The only time 727's showed up on Indian Airlines timetables was as codeshares on Aghan Ariana and Royal Nepal flights. For a brief while in the late 80's, 727's of Royal Nepal were used for low-fare night flights on DEL-NAG-BLR and CCU-NAG-BOM flights which showed up with IC/VD codes on timetables.

PS: I swear I saw a double bogie A320 in Raipur in XMas week when I was in India. Couldn't catch the reg, but it was there at the time AI's DEL-NAG-RPR flight operates.
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:16 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
AI should have retired them long back, but several bad fleet decisions forced them to keep flying these antiques. I think AI mainline didn't take a single NB delivery between 2007-2015?? They were taking unwanted WBs and had no money for NBs. They were the saviors during AI's tough financial times, though riddled with APU issues.


On the contrary, AI received as many as 43 Airbuses in this period: 4 A320, 19 A319 and 20 A321.

AngMoh wrote:
When IC was merged with AI, the route was a short time AI A310 (not 100% sure) and after that Air India Express. If I remember correctly, the routing was CCU-SIN-BLR-SIN-CCU for the IC flight.


It was then switched to an AI A319 doing BLR-SIN-BLR direct.
Vahroone
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:54 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
...
On the contrary, AI received as many as 43 Airbuses in this period: 4 A320, 19 A319 and 20 A321.


Those are from 2006 order, probably delivered by 2007. I haven't checked the details but their A321/A319 fleet age is 10+ years.

Not ordering NBs is the primary reason AI lost domestic market share. No one cares if they ordered too many widebodies.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:02 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Those are from 2006 order, probably delivered by 2007.


Negative. They were delivered between 2007 and 2010.
Vahroone
 
Jet-lagged
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:20 pm

Wow. I didn’t know about these. Cool.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India Retires Remaining Double Bogie A320s

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:34 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Negative. They were delivered between 2007 and 2010.

And how many were delivered after 2010???
AI mainline NB deliveries, anyone can see gaping holes in capacity addition.
Year A319,A320,A321
2007 - 9,0,5
2008 - 3,0,5
2009 - 9,0,8
2010 - 1,4,2
2011 - 0,0,0
2012 - 0,0,0
2013 - 0,0,0
2014 - 0,0,0
2015 - 0,5,0
2016 - 0,0,0
2017 - 0,14,0
2018 - 0, 9,0

And how many A320s Indigo added during the same period? AI deliveries averaged one NB in ~60 days and 6E averages one NB in 9 days. It is a shame $$Billions of debt in WB AOGs, but AI doesn't have enough NBs.

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