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airboeingbus
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What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:08 pm

As I understand the A320’s and A321’s are still being painted and the first A320 is undergoing cabin Mods. Does anybody with any connections to AS / VS know how the Airbus fleet is doing? Where have fitted in AS’s network and routes? When will crews fully intergrate? And finally will they stay, expand or go when they go off lease? Obviously based on rumours as there hasn’t been any official communications or comments from AS in a while. It’ll be interesting to see if AS is happy with the NEO’s that have come on property recently
 
RWRCAS
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:13 am

Initially, there were higher than expected maintenance issues, but I think that has resolved itself. Some Airbus aircraft have been replaced with 737s on transcon routes due to better performance. I believe Flight Attendants are fully integrated and Pilots can or shortly will be able to bid any aircraft. As you say, nothing official, but I would guess the A319s and the A320s will go away as leases expire. The big questions are will the A321 neos stay. There are two more to be delivered this year and there is an order for 30 A320 neos that have somewhat favorable exit terms if Alaska decides they don’t want them. My guess is, if Alaska takes any aircraft off that order they will be converted to A321 neos.
 
EChid
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:38 am

As far as I can tell, AS would be absolute silly gooses not to take the A321neos (and convert to more, if possible). Not only is the a/c in demand, with good secondary market prospects, but it also is pretty much the best product you can have for 'something bigger than a 737 but not a widebody' right now, and I'm sure that AS has room for that product in their network and would even benefit significantly from having them.
 
pdxav8r
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:52 am

What are the numbers like between the 738/9 and the A321neo’s between the west coast and Hawaii? Did HA buy them as much for commonality, or are the numbers that much better for the 321 on those routes? Will AS deploy them more on the Hawaiian routes as they arrive on property?
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:07 am

EChid wrote:
As far as I can tell, AS would be absolute silly gooses not to take the A321neos (and convert to more, if possible). Not only is the a/c in demand, with good secondary market prospects, but it also is pretty much the best product you can have for 'something bigger than a 737 but not a widebody' right now, and I'm sure that AS has room for that product in their network and would even benefit significantly from having them.


They begin taking delivery of MAX aircraft this summer, and a MAX 9 will probably be a decent alternative for AS to the A321. In a couple of years, the MAX 10 will be out and if they really need the capacity they can buy that as well.

That’s not to speak against the A321 - I’m a huge fan of the neo. However, AS would be perfectly fine without it if they choose not to renew the leases.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:15 am

The A319s and A320s are leased, with lease terms that Alaska has characterized as unfavorable. The A320s are going back to the lessor on schedule, barring a drastic renegotiation in the leases. It's looking increasingly like the A319s will do the same; there were some rumors they were going to be disposed of early. That's not because the aircraft themselves are bad; they're just financially inefficient.

I agree the A321neo is a very interesting question (and no doubt one both Airbus and Boeing are trying hard to answer). They can do things that the 739ERs and MAX 9s can't, notably transcons out of DCA. But Alaska is committed in a big way to the MAX and I don't know if they're big enough to operate two different types of the same size cost-effectively.
 
sonicruiser
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:20 am

Who knows what their plan is? This has been a mystery since the second the merger was announced.
Last edited by sonicruiser on Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:20 am

Seeing as the 321neo is a hot commodity I doubt the leasing company will give AS a lower lease rate when the time comes. AS was fine without the 321 before and they'll be fine without it. Also, I'm sure the pilots want more money to fly the 321.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:28 am

sonicruiser wrote:
Who knows what their plan is? This has been a mystery since the second the merger was announced.


AS has been talking with both Airbus and Boeing about their future needs, but neither company has been offering screaming deals so far. At some point, that will change, but everything I know says this is Boeing's order to lose. I think one question mark is the 797; once that is defined, AS will look it over and make a go/no-go decision on it, and the overall fleet strategy.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
jplatts
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:36 pm

seabosdca wrote:
The A319s and A320s are leased, with lease terms that Alaska has characterized as unfavorable. The A320s are going back to the lessor on schedule, barring a drastic renegotiation in the leases. It's looking increasingly like the A319s will do the same; there were some rumors they were going to be disposed of early. That's not because the aircraft themselves are bad; they're just financially inefficient.


AS could order some 737 MAX 7 planes in order to replace the 737-700's and former VX A319's. There are some nonstop routes within Alaska and the Pacific Northwest where the 737 MAX 7 is a better fit than bigger planes such as the 737 MAX 9 and 737 MAX 10.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:45 pm

I’ve noticed our mainline frequencies from AUS to PDX and SEA have been converted to a320s from the usual 737 mix, so that’s a change. I assume this may be long-term. Makes sense with what’s being discussed here.

More curious about any possible consolidation, but that would hijack the thread.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I’m a huge fan of the neo.


So, you’re a leap :) ?
 
pdp
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:54 pm

I'm slightly surprised that AS hasn't seemed to make much noise about the MAX 10. Surely Boeing must have had a crack at getting Alaska to swap the 321s for a few 10s...
 
avi8
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:56 pm

AS and VX probably had one of the fastest integrations I’ve ever seen. I know the airlines were smaller but they’re basically one airline operationally already, with most aircraft already in the new AS livery.

I highly doubt that they will retire the airbus fleet. Having almost 60 of them is not something to laugh at. Perhaps since they are larger they can economically operate both fleets?
avi8
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:35 pm

pdp wrote:
I'm slightly surprised that AS hasn't seemed to make much noise about the MAX 10. Surely Boeing must have had a crack at getting Alaska to swap the 321s for a few 10s...


The A321s are on (I believe) 10 year leases so they aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:38 pm

avi8 wrote:
AS and VX probably had one of the fastest integrations I’ve ever seen. I know the airlines were smaller but they’re basically one airline operationally already, with most aircraft already in the new AS livery.

I highly doubt that they will retire the airbus fleet. Having almost 60 of them is not something to laugh at. Perhaps since they are larger they can economically operate both fleets?


Realistically there’s no reason AS can’t operate dual fleets. The question boils down to does the benefit outweigh the cost. If the leases on the Airbii are a bit rich, that might sway returning them at the end of the term. There’s still the question of the neo order, though. We don’t really know the terms of it.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:58 pm

seabosdca wrote:
The A319s and A320s are leased, with lease terms that Alaska has characterized as unfavorable. The A320s are going back to the lessor on schedule, barring a drastic renegotiation in the leases. It's looking increasingly like the A319s will do the same; there were some rumors they were going to be disposed of early. That's not because the aircraft themselves are bad; they're just financially inefficient.

I agree the A321neo is a very interesting question (and no doubt one both Airbus and Boeing are trying hard to answer). They can do things that the 739ERs and MAX 9s can't, notably transcons out of DCA. But Alaska is committed in a big way to the MAX and I don't know if they're big enough to operate two different types of the same size cost-effectively.


Six of them are owned/financed and could be sold. That said, if the B39M can do transcon without a fuel stop (such as BOS to SAN), I expect that Alaska will look to sell those A20N delivery slots and use the A21Ns to and from Hawaii

What’s the deal with N928VA though? That plane has been out of service for weeks.
 
rajincajun01
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:59 pm

CarlosSi wrote:
I’ve noticed our mainline frequencies from AUS to PDX and SEA have been converted to a320s from the usual 737 mix, so that’s a change. I assume this may be long-term. Makes sense with what’s being discussed here.


AUS is scheduled to be back to Boeing this summer on those routes. SAN will also become Boeing April 1.
A319 A320 A321 A330 B1900 B717 B727 B737 B757 B767 B777 B787 C172 C402 CR2 CR7 CRJ9 DH8 E120 ERJ135 ERJ145 E170/175/190 L1011 MD80 MD90 SF340
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:08 pm

Working from memory, AS delayed 6 MAX 9 deliveries from this year into the next two or three years as a part of the VX integration. The statement at the time was that they had enough on their plate without learning the quirks of a new subtype, but it also gives them some time to rationalize the fleet they have as they more slowly change capacity. With more than 30 -9's on orderder, AS has a lot of flexibility with what they want to do with the A3xx, or with possible expansion.


Since AS is planning on having all of the Airbus aircraft with AS interiors by the end of the year, we can pretty safely assume they will be with the company until the end of the lease.
 
azjubilee
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:52 pm

pdxav8r wrote:
What are the numbers like between the 738/9 and the A321neo’s between the west coast and Hawaii? Did HA buy them as much for commonality, or are the numbers that much better for the 321 on those routes? Will AS deploy them more on the Hawaiian routes as they arrive on property?


Hawaiian bought the 321neo because it was the better product for the mission. The few commonalities between the 330/321 were further down the list of priorities.
 
77H
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:54 pm

My understanding is that AS pulled all 32X aircraft off the Hawaii routes. All AS flights up and down the West Coast are 738/9 now, even the pmVX routes.

As another poster mentioned, it would be interesting to get performance data on the 21N vs the 738/9 and 7M8/9 to and from Hawaii. Beyond the engine issues, HA seems happy with the aircraft’s performance. Has AS made any public statements about the 21N?

77H
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:55 pm

Pre merger AS was into peak efficiency with the 737's, lots of long flights from SEA and PDX to Hawaii and Alaska as well as to Florida and Boston.

This is a great test case to see how the A320 compares, as those leases expire will they replace them with the 737 or the A320. The A321 very likely can stay and grow there. AS is my hometown favorite, they are usually quite adept. In years gone by, AS and WN were often the only two profitable airlines in the USA.

Their East Coast and Hawaii flights are often 2 per day, with the last flight going east a red eye with a so so load factor. Served by two frames, and the planes are quite full. As they are pretty much the only direct flight from SEA they can charge extra compared to the ones with a stop. Anyway, those city pairs need a capacity boost, but the timing at both ends is an early (7 to 8 AM) flight would mean two flights within an hour of each other. A 797 would be a real workhorse for them. It would also be great for both Hawaii and Alaska, a lot more weight of freight than a 737 (but not a widebody)
 
Khvtosea
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:17 pm

77H wrote:
My understanding is that AS pulled all 32X aircraft off the Hawaii routes. All AS flights up and down the West Coast are 738/9 now, even the pmVX routes

77H


I just took a flight from SEA to SNA on an A320. As a frequent AS flyer, I like the Airbuses a little more than the 737’s.

On a separate note, I was sitting in first, and the FA told me that none of the cabin crew had ever set foot on an Airbus before, but joked that at least the flight crew had! They struggled a bit with the service, and the captain had to show an FA how to secure the door after boarding had completed. I’m surprised that there appeared to be no transition training for them.
 
snowzilla
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:28 pm

[[/quote]



On a separate note, I was sitting in first, and the FA told me that none of the cabin crew had ever set foot on an Airbus before, but joked that at least the flight crew had! They struggled a bit with the service, and the captain had to show an FA how to secure the door after boarding had completed. I’m surprised that there appeared to be no transition training for them.[/quote]

The FA's had transition training, but like anything it takes some actual hands on experience to be proficient. Plus their training was most likely months ago.
 
QXAS
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:36 pm

77H wrote:
My understanding is that AS pulled all 32X aircraft off the Hawaii routes. All AS flights up and down the West Coast are 738/9 now, even the pmVX routes.

77H

Actually it’s quite the opposite. The vast majority of the 320 fleet is now only on the west coast. This is due to the airplanes being “winter transcon fuel stop nightmares”. Routes like SEA-LAX are all Airbus save for 2-3 frequencies to move 737s between the hubs. The NEOs are an exception and can be found just about anywhere that the capacity is needed.
I am NOT an employee of any airline or manufacturer. I speak for myself, not on the behalf of any company.
 
EChid
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:01 pm

QXAS wrote:
77H wrote:
My understanding is that AS pulled all 32X aircraft off the Hawaii routes. All AS flights up and down the West Coast are 738/9 now, even the pmVX routes.

77H

Actually it’s quite the opposite. The vast majority of the A320 fleet is now only on the west coast. This is due to the airplanes being “winter transcon fuel stop nightmares”. Routes like SEA-LAX are all Airbus save for 2-3 frequencies to move 737s between the hubs. The NEOs are an exception and can be found just about anywhere that the capacity is needed.

I'm confused by them being termed "winter transcon fuel stop nightmares"...why has AC been making the A320s work for years on their domestic/US Transcons? Just curious was the technical backstory is.
 
gmcc
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:13 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
The A319s and A320s are leased, with lease terms that Alaska has characterized as unfavorable. The A320s are going back to the lessor on schedule, barring a drastic renegotiation in the leases. It's looking increasingly like the A319s will do the same; there were some rumors they were going to be disposed of early. That's not because the aircraft themselves are bad; they're just financially inefficient.

I agree the A321neo is a very interesting question (and no doubt one both Airbus and Boeing are trying hard to answer). They can do things that the 739ERs and MAX 9s can't, notably transcons out of DCA. But Alaska is committed in a big way to the MAX and I don't know if they're big enough to operate two different types of the same size cost-effectively.


Six of them are owned/financed and could be sold. That said, if the B39M can do transcon without a fuel stop (such as BOS to SAN), I expect that Alaska will look to sell those A20N delivery slots and use the A21Ns to and from Hawaii

What’s the deal with N928VA though? That plane has been out of service for weeks.

N928VA is in GSO said to be getting the new AS interior. While it seems a bit of a waste since it is new, I can see wanting the only 321 in full AS colors to have the new interior. Hear it takes about 1 month for the cabin mods so it should be back soon.
 
anoguez
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:17 pm

it´s a bias thing; most people and some managements tend to believe that there is some emotional attachment to something... If management it's focused on margins and therefore low CASM, Airbus A321neo is the king. I can´t provide evidence since I´m restricte to do so, but there is a lot of info available out there. And it's not about A vs B since the most efficent widebody (capital spending/performance/residual value) it's the 787. Management should always focus on numbers. (English is not my first language so I apologize for mistakes)
 
QXAS
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:57 pm

EChid wrote:
QXAS wrote:
77H wrote:
My understanding is that AS pulled all 32X aircraft off the Hawaii routes. All AS flights up and down the West Coast are 738/9 now, even the pmVX routes.

77H

Actually it’s quite the opposite. The vast majority of the A320 fleet is now only on the west coast. This is due to the airplanes being “winter transcon fuel stop nightmares”. Routes like SEA-LAX are all Airbus save for 2-3 frequencies to move 737s between the hubs. The NEOs are an exception and can be found just about anywhere that the capacity is needed.

I'm confused by them being termed "winter transcon fuel stop nightmares"...why has AC been making the A320s work for years on their domestic/US Transcons? Just curious was the technical backstory is.

As I don’t work with the company I’m only passing on the words of someone who works in dispatch. The A320s that AS inherited from VX struggle between the northeast and California during winter. This is a reason why they were pulled off of most transcons. JFK-LAX is nearly 400 miles longer than YYZ-YVR. With winter headwinds that’s nearly a full hour longer (100-120kts of wind is not unheard of). AS found themselves having to shuffle equipment and delay flights operated by the 320 fleet due to diversions while 738s were flying similar routes without need for a fuel stop.
I am NOT an employee of any airline or manufacturer. I speak for myself, not on the behalf of any company.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:01 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Six of them are owned/financed and could be sold. That said, if the B39M can do transcon without a fuel stop (such as BOS to SAN), I expect that Alaska will look to sell those A20N delivery slots and use the A21Ns to and from Hawaii.


The MAX 9 has zero trouble on most transcons. The challenge is transcons out of DCA, which is a highly lucrative market for AS. It's currently flying the A321neo to LAX, the A320 to SFO, and the 738 to PDX and SEA. This is probably because the A321neo fleet is (1) so small that it's staying centered around LAX and (2) not equipped with sufficient F seats to meet paid demand in the other markets. But not having an A321neo-size airplane with a full F cabin on at least SFO and SEA is leaving quite a bit of money on the table.
 
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:01 pm

gmcc wrote:
N928VA is in GSO said to be getting the new AS interior. While it seems a bit of a waste since it is new, I can see wanting the only 321 in full AS colors to have the new interior.

I suspect all new deliveries will be AS interior, which would make N923VA an orphan. I could see that being very problematic for operational reasons, as the AS configuration has twice the first class and half again more premium class seats. Every time the aircraft was swapped out for a sister, there would be upset passengers to compensate.
 
EChid
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:31 pm

QXAS wrote:
EChid wrote:
QXAS wrote:
Actually it’s quite the opposite. The vast majority of the A320 fleet is now only on the west coast. This is due to the airplanes being “winter transcon fuel stop nightmares”. Routes like SEA-LAX are all Airbus save for 2-3 frequencies to move 737s between the hubs. The NEOs are an exception and can be found just about anywhere that the capacity is needed.

I'm confused by them being termed "winter transcon fuel stop nightmares"...why has AC been making the A320s work for years on their domestic/US Transcons? Just curious was the technical backstory is.

As I don’t work with the company I’m only passing on the words of someone who works in dispatch. The A320s that AS inherited from VX struggle between the northeast and California during winter. This is a reason why they were pulled off of most transcons. JFK-LAX is nearly 400 miles longer than YYZ-YVR. With winter headwinds that’s nearly a full hour longer (100-120kts of wind is not unheard of). AS found themselves having to shuffle equipment and delay flights operated by the 320 fleet due to diversions while 738s were flying similar routes without need for a fuel stop.

Huh. Weird. AC has operated their (pretty old) 320s on YUL-SFO and YUL-LAX for years, with, as far as I know, no such problems (I've taken both flights many times, including in winter, and never had any surprise diversions). JFK-LAX is shorter than YUL-SFO, and JFK-SFO is only 47 miles further than YUL-SFO.

Has AC been challenged on this all this time? Blocking seats to make it happen?
 
Kilopond
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:27 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
[...]Realistically there’s no reason AS can’t operate dual fleets. The question boils down to does the benefit outweigh the cost.[....


Exactly! The whole equation contains several variables.

The competition in the MRO industry has become extremely rough. That is why airlines can get bottom low prices for maintanance and spare parts storage, no matter whether they got just one or half a dozen of a/c types. Under this aspect, yesteryear´s common wisdoms are gone.

Yet, it is somewhat complicated to have more than just one „airmen squadron“ so that the human factor will add costs.

But if an airline keeps itself independant from just one particular OEM, it will gain negortiating power for future orders.
 
klkla
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:36 pm

EChid wrote:
Huh. Weird. AC has operated their (pretty old) 320s on YUL-SFO and YUL-LAX for years, with, as far as I know, no such problems (I've taken both flights many times, including in winter, and never had any surprise diversions). JFK-LAX is shorter than YUL-SFO, and JFK-SFO is only 47 miles further than YUL-SFO.

Has AC been challenged on this all this time? Blocking seats to make it happen?


The older A320s occasionally had to make fuel stops during the winter on East Coast to West Coast routes when facing strong head winds. I remember this being a particular problem for Jet Blue. Happened with airlines flying the B738, too, but not as frequently.
 
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RWA380
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:59 pm

RWRCAS wrote:
Initially, there were higher than expected maintenance issues, but I think that has resolved itself. Some Airbus aircraft have been replaced with 737s on transcon routes due to better performance. I believe Flight Attendants are fully integrated and Pilots can or shortly will be able to bid any aircraft. As you say, nothing official, but I would guess the A319s and the A320s will go away as leases expire. The big questions are will the A321 neos stay. There are two more to be delivered this year and there is an order for 30 A320 neos that have somewhat favorable exit terms if Alaska decides they don’t want them. My guess is, if Alaska takes any aircraft off that order they will be converted to A321 neos.


VX had delayed all non-mandatory maintenance, lots of little problems with the VX fleet, maintenance was not on par with AS standards, those issues were an expense AS did not expect. F/A's can now bid cross fleet & some have chosen to & others not, I expect it comes to seniority. F/A's got table reads & no inflight experience, the Airbus is enough different that some in cabin crew are not excited.

EChid wrote:
As far as I can tell, AS would be absolute silly gooses not to take the A321neos (and convert to more, if possible). Not only is the a/c in demand, with good secondary market prospects, but it also is pretty much the best product you can have for 'something bigger than a 737 but not a widebody' right now, and I'm sure that AS has room for that product in their network and would even benefit significantly from having them.


AS is trying very hard to find a place for the A-321neo, passengers like them, the extra capacity is helpful to AS, but AS themselves do not like the current layout of the aircraft, I didn't get any further info than that. AS has a good idea of how they want things to go & I personally do not think AS will retain the A-320/319's I honestly don't think AS knows what they want with the A-321 quite yet. AS could easily sub-lease them out to a thirsty carrier looking to gain a few quickly.

pdxav8r wrote:
What are the numbers like between the 738/9 and the A321neo’s between the west coast and Hawaii? Did HA buy them as much for commonality, or are the numbers that much better for the 321 on those routes? Will AS deploy them more on the Hawaiian routes as they arrive on property?


HA chose the A-321neo for the capacity & the mission lengths that the aircraft will explore as time passes. AS doesn't need that same capacity & AS knew going in, that those VX A-320's were going to be taken off the Hawaii routes. AS want's fleet commonality for it's Hawaiian flights, as they are a fair distance from the mainland, re-positioning an aircraft from another island, if needed is easier if it's just 738's or 739's in their perspective.

CarlosSi wrote:
I’ve noticed our mainline frequencies from AUS to PDX and SEA have been converted to a320s from the usual 737 mix, so that’s a change. I assume this may be long-term. Makes sense with what’s being discussed here.

More curious about any possible consolidation, but that would hijack the thread.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I’m a huge fan of the neo.


So, you’re a leap :) ?


I think AS has done an excellent job at right sizing their routes with the correct aircraft that is available. A PDX-ORD flight has gone to the A-320 & CMH was started on the A-320 from SEA.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
77H
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:38 am

QXAS wrote:
77H wrote:
My understanding is that AS pulled all 32X aircraft off the Hawaii routes. All AS flights up and down the West Coast are 738/9 now, even the pmVX routes.

77H

Actually it’s quite the opposite. The vast majority of the 320 fleet is now only on the west coast. This is due to the airplanes being “winter transcon fuel stop nightmares”. Routes like SEA-LAX are all Airbus save for 2-3 frequencies to move 737s between the hubs. The NEOs are an exception and can be found just about anywhere that the capacity is needed.


Apologies, I wasn’t clear. I meant up and down the west coast to Hawaii specifically.

77H
 
QXAS
Posts: 366
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:26 am

Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:59 am

77H wrote:
QXAS wrote:
77H wrote:
My understanding is that AS pulled all 32X aircraft off the Hawaii routes. All AS flights up and down the West Coast are 738/9 now, even the pmVX routes.

77H

Actually it’s quite the opposite. The vast majority of the 320 fleet is now only on the west coast. This is due to the airplanes being “winter transcon fuel stop nightmares”. Routes like SEA-LAX are all Airbus save for 2-3 frequencies to move 737s between the hubs. The NEOs are an exception and can be found just about anywhere that the capacity is needed.


Apologies, I wasn’t clear. I meant up and down the west coast to Hawaii specifically.

77H

Ah yes that makes more sense. In which case you’re completely correct. And I apologize for what may have read like a condescending reply.
I am NOT an employee of any airline or manufacturer. I speak for myself, not on the behalf of any company.
 
rj1385
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 am

Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:03 am

I think, if AS wanted to, there would be a deal to be had with AA to swap A321s for Boeings.
 
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gunsontheroof
Posts: 3649
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Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:18 am

rj1385 wrote:
I think, if AS wanted to, there would be a deal to be had with AA to swap A321s for Boeings.


What Boeings? This isn't a sports trade. What would AA have to offer that would compel AS to give up an aircraft that customers seem to like and management is carefully considering their best approach with?

I would agree with those here who suspect the leased 319/320 fleet isn't sticking around past their lease expirations, but I think AS sees a lot of potential in the new A321 fleet and I wouldn't be all that surprised to see them take up more new-builds unless Boeing brings them some 797 intel (read: we'd like to have you launch our new plane, here's what we've got) and it proves to bring a compelling business case. Even then, I'm not sure the A321 is necessarily out at AS.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
rj1385
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 am

Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:51 pm

gunsontheroof wrote:
rj1385 wrote:
I think, if AS wanted to, there would be a deal to be had with AA to swap A321s for Boeings.


What Boeings? This isn't a sports trade. What would AA have to offer that would compel AS to give up an aircraft that customers seem to like and management is carefully considering their best approach with?

I would agree with those here who suspect the leased 319/320 fleet isn't sticking around past their lease expirations, but I think AS sees a lot of potential in the new A321 fleet and I wouldn't be all that surprised to see them take up more new-builds unless Boeing brings them some 797 intel (read: we'd like to have you launch our new plane, here's what we've got) and it proves to bring a compelling business case. Even then, I'm not sure the A321 is necessarily out at AS.


If AS wants to get rid of the A320 fleet and go back to a common all Boeing, then they could easily approach someone like AA who has a bunch of 737s in fleet and on order.
I know it isn't sports trades, but there are number crunchers that could put a deal together if it made sense for where Alaska wants to get instead of waiting on leases to expire on brand new planes. AA wouldn't be compelling AS, but AS looking to get where they want and how to get there.
 
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seabosdca
Posts: 6607
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:53 pm

gunsontheroof wrote:
What Boeings? This isn't a sports trade.


I expect the poster was probably referring to a deal where AA buys AS's A321neos and AS gets a few of AA's MAX delivery slots (presumably converted from MAX 8s to MAX 9s or 10s). I doubt that's the most likely outcome, because I think Boeing would find a way to get AS prompt delivery on A321neo replacements without holding AA's frames up. (And in any case I also don't see a lot of benefit for AS in getting rid of A321neos.)
 
laca773
Posts: 2081
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:29 pm

AS will still need a suitable nb in the A319/73G capacity. AS is very good at up & downgauging flights according to demand on varying days. There are routes that definitely do not require 739ER or A321 capacity & and the 738/A320s are still too large but a E75 is too small. How will they solve this ?

I've noticed some of the Mexico beach destinations are now operated with Airbus equipment. Are they using them because they need fewer premium seats?
 
jgcotter
Posts: 915
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:15 pm

In related news; they had kind of a reveal 2/27 at SFO of N928VA, the bird with the new cabin, and a lot of Most West Coast cheerleading. Pres & CEO Ben Minicucci says that they’ll take delivery of two more NEOs, bringing the Airbus fleet to 73, and the Airbi will stay on lease for another 5 or 6 years. They’ll have four Airbi in cabin conversion per month starting this month. They’ll decide at the end of this year if they’ll keep the mixed fleet or return to all-Boeing when the Airbi leases expire.
 
AirbusA322
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:38 am

Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:29 pm

The ball is really in Boeing’s court. Give them a hot price and no doubt in anyone’s mind that they wouldn’t take it. Boeing will play long term here. Might not be an overly profitable deal now but long term it will.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3676
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: What’s happening with Alaska’s Airbus fleet?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:59 pm

laca773 wrote:
AS will still need a suitable nb in the A319/73G capacity. AS is very good at up & downgauging flights according to demand on varying days. There are routes that definitely do not require 739ER or A321 capacity & and the 738/A320s are still too large but a E75 is too small. How will they solve this ?


I previously mentioned that AS could order some Boeing 737 MAX 7 planes to replace the former VX A319's and the AS 737-700's.

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